What Tekken players can learn from Virtua Fighter | Tekken 8 Real Talk

[@Chanchai_VF]

You completely nailed it, man! Thank you for communicating what Virtua Fighter is about to the player so well and in a way that Tekken players will really understand-it is not an easy thing to do and you did it masterfully! I look forward to more of your journey ❤

[@Kardz6]

My time with the VF5 REVO beta test in a nutshell : Day 1: ....aight playing akira..man feels jank, where is my kbd, you gotta block with G...damn Day 2 : wait its clicking...hmm Day 3: i literally just had a match with a Jean and this shit felt like the best match i had in any 3d fighter bro, Akira IS PEAK BAJIQUAN, ALL THESE CHARACTER LOOK SIMPLE IN DESIGN BUT THEY ARE SICK AF, im literally also enjoying spectating the game FUCK THE BETA IS OVER WHEN IS IT COMING BACK NO DONT LEAVE ME And day 4 and 5 was just me playing matches with friends and it was so fun Moral of story, any tekken player, do not enter to this game with a tekken mentality, and i promise you will have the time of your life, im glad you loved the game bro i cant wait for the full release they have the potential to cook HARD with Vf6

[@JasonAlexanderFestivus]

This was so brilliantly explained. You explained the essence of Virtua Fighter perfectly. The decision process you went through with your friend and how you two went back and forth with making adjustments over and over to the point you realised that everything is beatable and it comes down to you decision making is probably the best explanation of how VF works I've heard being explained from someone who isn't a VF old head. Great video man. Loved it.

[@LesserCheshire]

Clive inspired me to speedrun the pre-order on VF5 REVO. Played the beta and then speedran the uninstall button on T8. I have a 78% winrate in T8 yet couldn't bring myself to keep playing, but I couldn't put down VF. In the wise words of Sarah Bryant - "YAHOO!"

[@PassionWagonYT]

Long time tekken player here, I had the exact same experience you described. Crestfallen by Tekken 8, gave VF a chance, and now it's clear as day why it's stood the test of time.

[@arpadszabo661]

Stood the test of time -> lost 60% of the playerbase in 5 hours during the beta and they never went back. Well, i’m glad other games didn’t stand the test of time like that

[@FalconBonk12]

@@arpadszabo661 It's a temporary beta, wdym

[@PassionWagonYT]

@@arpadszabo661 The original release was in 2006, take a seat.

[@sorubro2193]

@@arpadszabo661 homie acting like retaining 40% of the player base that tried a game is a bad thing

[@misterxenon5068]

This video reminds me of how disappointed I was when MainManSWE played the vf5 revo beta and spent the whole time just shitting on it and not even trying to find out what makes it fun.

[@irishpizza2823]

He plays that shit so bummy lmao just mashing with Jeffry. Then he gets mad when he goes against experienced players that he can't just bully, I don't get it. And that's the same exact way he played VF years and years ago.

[@WatsonDynamite]

@@irishpizza2823 he thinks just because he's hot shit at tekken he should be able to pick up other 3D fighters with zero effort and when he can't succeed, he blames the game

[@WzDk13]

@@irishpizza2823 Crazy how every virtua fighter video that I watched that mentions tekken will without fail have people hating on tmm lol

[@immi7560]

Why are people hating on tmm? He is entitled to his opinion just like everyone else

[@WzDk13]

@immi7560 It's the internet, so you're hated for not having the correct opinion or mindset. The funny thing is that Tmm has said many times that he wants VF to come back and likes the franchise.

[@chiefflash]

i enjoyed every minute of this. if you want some guidance on VF, i can help. i've been playing VF competitively since 2004, and I was the WCG National Champ in 2009. If you are truly interested, we can do a stream session where I break down the game's mechanics for you.

[@ChadTheThirdUK]

I have a lot of learning content I'd like to make when the game comes out. I WILL take you up on this offer.

[@chiefflash]

@@ChadTheThirdUK LES GET IT!!!

[@binho2224]

Nice knowing you! I will watch some of you matches on your channel!

[@stephansotomayor9696]

@@chiefflash shoot I will take you on that offer as well!

[@NovaSeiken]

I am so glad this kind of conversation is taking place from cvltvred guys like you... Tekken is in dire need of competition. *Real Competition.* A rival is the best way to not get you complacent. It pushes you further into becoming something better. And no game better for it than Virtua Fighter, which so does happen to be mechanically richer than Tekken, even deeper gameplay elements and an *infinitely more balanced* game experience, where character identities are fully respected and power creep doesn't dictate the meta. Actually, *both games* could learn from each other and push each other into becoming better: - Tekken could learn from Virtua Fighter in terms of _actual game balancing_ and *respecting character identities above all else,* not power creeping the game for the sake of power creeping. - Virtua Fighter could learn so much from Tekken in terms of PRESENTATION. Tekken is so much better at presentation than VF... VF clearly lacking on this department. Characters must be better explored, there must be an existing story mode, there must be a *reason* these guys are fighting, their appeal as characters must be fleshed out beyond first impressions based on physical appearance, martial arts background, attire and mannerisms. Also, Tekken invests heavily on the OOMPH factor. When you get hit by a brutal technique in Tekken, you can almost FEEL the hit. VF sound effects are dated. Thankfully, RGG Studio is now in charge of the new VF release, so we can expect these issues to be no more: they will give appeal to the characters and bring the OOMPH factor. Also, VF is the most newbie-unfriendly game EVER. You either are a complete scrub or you are a serial killer on this game with a decades-long experience. There is no middle ground. People shy away from this game for being so mechanically deep and so hostile to beginners. There must be cohesive and deeper tutorial modes to explain what to do ideally in specific situations and make you put into practice advanced techniques that are QUINTESSENTIAL for you to merely SURVIVE on this game, such as fuzzy guarding.

[@johnmurray5241]

You've gained a follower. You managed to voice exactly the issue I'm having and why I loved playing the VF Beta. Excited to see more content

[@SWORDU]

The amount of times I’ve died for guessing right is why I’m done with tekken 8

[@Cordxll]

How you GUESS right and die?

[@SWORDU]

you obviously don’t play this game at a high level

[@arpadszabo661]

@@Cordxll he didn’t. This “i’m guessing right and dying” is the most Garyu Bryan level take ever.

[@kylefields3951]

@@arpadszabo661 I'm pretty sure he's referring to the constant Mid/Low Mixups where the Low is Threatening but the Mid is + so it's not a good deal either way. That does happen, but of course this varies from Character to Character. You guess the Mid you can't Step (Usually because in these Heat scenarios you as the Defender are consistently - enough so that you can't just use Lateral Movement or a Backdash to Reposition) and then because you Blocked the Mid, the situation repeats and you have to Guess another Mid/Low and you didn't even get Hit. I'm Tekken God with multiple Characters and that is the biggest flaw with Tekken 8's design. So many Characters are now Sergei Dragunov where they have + Mids so the High/Mid/Low Balancing factors are out of whack. (Every Character has a + Mid at the Cost of their Resources, but now The Tekken Team has decided to give a Character like Kazuya a +Mid to go with his Mid/Low Mix which is just bonkers) I like Tekken 8 more than 7, but I totally understand where the Players are coming from when they say 8 is not for them. And the reasoning is very valid.

[@SWORDU]

@@kylefields3951 thank you bro. You understand.

[@TheGeniusUK]

This hour long VF video was fantastic. You explained exactly how I have been feeling about this game so well, and in a way I wasn't able to express. You deserve this subscribe/follow :).

[@kudjaremastered3362]

I feel like the "magic vs ki" topic is extremely important for the tekken community. People need to understand why a Baki character fits but a Harry Potter one does not.

[@Vfnumbers]

Chad. You explain each level perfectly with vf. Thats the logic and how we play vf. Its all yomi and at higher lvls it becomes a chess match

[@Vfnumbers]

We tell folks learning vf you will lose often. But your knowledge and yomi will slowly improve and you have answers on how to deal against it. Eventually you start playing faster and faster as you read your opponents tendencies also react accordingly

[@thelafffinman]

This is probably the best critique of Tekken 8 I've seen. I still enjoy the game even with its problems (although if the game were still like pre-1.04 I might've quit), but I think T8 would be even better if they made the problems more interesting like you're describing. It almost feels like they're on their way to what you've described VF to be, but they've been missing the mark. Hopefully with VF6 on the horizon the presence of actual competition in the 3D space will do great things for both games.

[@rmoore1969]

Favorite quote from this video. 43:50 "The key to a good fighting game is how fun is it to lose." Tekken 8 feels horrible at times. Get put in a negative frame blender against Drag a couple of times and round is over. Incredible video. Just subscribed to your channel and plan on getting VF this Jan on PC.

[@finnTekken]

10 mins in. This is already gold. I have the authority , because i play both games. Excellent description of the problems and the enjoyment or not enjoyment of them. 11/10

[@Dragenyx]

wow what a great video, instant sub - loved the way you articulated your thoughts never played vf before the beta came out for vf5 and was really enjoying it, really looking forward to the release and vf6

[@raidennc]

When you talked about the "interesting problems to solve" that perfectly encapsulates my issue with Clive (and a large part of the game in general). Its too early to know if he will he strong or not, and frankly I don't care. Even when I learn to deal with it I still dont suspect I will enjoy dealing with his kit of omnipresent huge buttons into canned mix on mix on mix. Everytime I try and explain that people say "oh he's just mid tier" or "he's more unsafe than you think". But thats besides the point. I'm not talking about his strength in the tierlist. The way you explained that was perfect

[@ChadTheThirdUK]

I feel like we're secretly the same person. I said the same thing in the mike hollow discussion. Even if this character is perfectly balanced, I already know I don't want to deal with it. I didn't come to Tekken to deal with half screen mids 😥

[@raidennc]

@ChadTheThirdUK yeah. The more I look into him the more upset it makes me. F1+2 is a fullscreen, mid, safe, heat engager/launcher weapon. You can't move That opens up his df1 which is like a 4 layered guess. You have to basically guess right up to 4 times to finally be rewarded. It's absurd. Been playing Tekken for over 25 years and some of this is really difficult to embrace.

[@xirion11]

What a great video! I love the analysis to a game design level and loved feeling your enthusiasm

[@jib6984ify]

Its about time VF git its flowers. Great video my guy.

[@francoiscarriere152]

You got me interested to give Virtua Fighter a genuine fair shot. - GbFrann

[@undyingsoul3949]

Yeah, exactly! I'm stuck with SoulCalibur 1 to 3 (mostly all alone) because of how bad these other modern fighters feel. The newest Virtua Fighters might save me and make me play against tons of real humans again.

[@Lyoh_]

I feel like the "we're both guessing constantly" was more common in older tekken games, where hitboxes were smaller, tracking wasn't as powerful, movement was better and moves weren't as overtuned than they are rn. Since a lot more things could be stepped, you had more choices as a defender in a disadvantageous situation (example: being able to step at basically -9). This also translate into a more active play because consistent defensive tools can let people be more active in their offense, I think.

[@dpokan]

What I realized a couple of months ago is that T8 is a Guilty Gear game. Paraphrasing LordKnight, a game for selfish people, where you love your main and hate every other cast member. It's about offensive flowchart and momentum. What is great about VF is that it's interactive. You are always doing something proactive. I've been wanting to play VF (I bought Yakuza to play VF in the arcade) but without rollback it was not worth it for me. Now with REVO it's going to be fun. Revo is just the appetizer. The VF6 teaser is showing great promise. The martial arts movie aesthetics with solid VF game play could just blow everyone away.

[@emilioulloa6682]

Nice to see you posting some what tekken related videos.

[@enricodedonato8529]

Tekken 8 has a problem of power creep. Every character now is basically well rounded and can kill you out of nowhere, so the ones that excel in tournaments are the most executionless and braindead. Back in T7 days, especially up to season 2 that wasn't the case at all. We're now in a downward spiral that the developers do not understand how to tackle.

[@dev1on]

VF when you get to learn it is so fkn CRISP…

[@sibusisolanga663]

Good to see you're still alive and well. Appreciate the upload brother man!

[@ChadTheThirdUK]

See! this is what I mean, people showing me love for no god damn reason! I hope you're doing well too :D (and if not, I hope things get better for ya soon)

[@ekwensu8797]

We need more fighting game powerpoints. This gave me juicebox sf4 footsies video vibes

[@knucklesandwich-520]

I came to Tekken 8 from Soul Calibur (never played Tekken 7), so what is in there is the "normal" for me. And for me the most abnormal in Tekken is the length of the combos, the multiplication of this by stage hazards, and the resulting high-stakeness of the guessing situations. And the lack of interactions that causes. A large percentage of the time in Tekken, one player is doing an execution test (=combo'ing), and the other is watching a cutscene (=being combo'ed). I consider Soul Calibur the vastly superior game in almost every aspect of game play (except the throw system). BUT games do not exist in a vacuum and I appreciate in Tekken the much larger player base, the ton of learning material you find online, the learning material built in to the game (SC does not even tell you frame data), ...

[@DreyWatson]

This was amazing description of how VF works! . Especially me coming from Tekken now I cannot wait to play this game when it drops on PS5 …I need a demo asap

[@RealMikeHollow]

W Chad.

[@deththekidd5062]

People keep saying virtua fighter is dead yet people have been playing this game which originally came out in 2005-2006 to this day and talking about it 😂

[@HFMurasama]

as someone who played virtua fighter 5 for the first time when the beta came out, I already miss it 😥

[@shajita]

I have a hard time putting into words how much I loved this video. Every 5 minutes, you've recontextualized something about a genre I've loved since childhood and played competitively('ish) since 2009, or eloquently put my feelings about certain topics and ideas into words that I've been struggling to do at a reasonable word count. Now, I just want to say, I love Tekken 8. I've played every Tekken since 2, fell of the wagon at 7, came back hard on 8, but I can completely understand the hows and whys for how you feel about it and why you don't want to engage with it. Thank you for trying to stop a flamewar before it got worse. We should be able to like and dislike things as adults. As for Virtua Fighter, man, I've been trying to get into this game since the original 360 days, but been unable to because online was so terrible. At this point, it feels like Christmas is gonna hit on the 28th of January. The beta got me hooked, I feel like like an addict waiting for a fix. I'm gonna hit this thing hard and fast, and keep banging my head into it until VF6 comes out. Thank you for the excellent video. It's a bit on the long side but I'll try to share it around to whoever may have the time/interest.

[@muckdriver]

The talk from the devs gave me confidence for gameplay (marketing and expectations in the air). They started by saying what is virtua fighter the identity and essence for them as developers. While I much prefer T8 to T7 and find the guests to be the least egregious part(even clive and noctis), I don't feel either title ever asked that question or answered it. Sf6 has frustrating mechanics for sure but at heart it is still very much the SF people know and love. The thing I like about tekken is "rule breaks" asuka has a parry for every situation, yoshi is unlockable setups, kazuya/mishima gives 50/50 in neutral, noctis(now clive) has unreasonable range. The issue I see is there is no strong unifying system and a way to make these rule breaks stop or keep from starting and interact with the systems. In older tekkens Asuka she couldn't aggress, you made her be aggressive and she'd lose unless the player got creative or managed asukas aggression correctly. Now she just throws one of her forward input moves with infinite plus frames on install for some of em. I do think some big changes like tightening hitboxes on many moves that don't have tracking trails or removing said tracking from big hitbox moves, sharpening some kits while dulling parts of em. 8 would be in a much more satisfying spot.

[@dreggywegs]

This video is incredible. Knowledge, frameworks, and presentation are great. So glad that Tekken fans are starting to understand why VF is so hype!

[@sabrinas.79]

I saved this video. You explain perfectly what bothers me with most fighting games. You don't fight the player. You fight the character and their bs they throw at you. In VF, your mind is the one that does the fighting and goes to war with the opponents mind. You can fight against 5 different Aoi players, and none of them feel the same. That applies to every other character in the game. The characters are like languages, and you choose the words you wanna convey to your opponent.

[@RabbitTheater87]

The saddest part is that his description of what got him into VF is exactly what got me into Tekken. I guess I'll be in Virtua Fighter next year

[@Bak2Bazics]

You've definitely earned my vote for the funniest and most entertaining content creator for Tekken I've ever seen. Had me tuned in for the entire duration of the video and you made reasonable points about problem solving in Tekken vs. Other fighters like VF, SF, etc. I must say, the problem solving has become egregious in T8. Regarding the bit you mentioned about aesthetic/mechanical function of Tekken's dlc guest cast and the trope that Tekken has been historically based on, I've stated this in another video, but the main target audience for Tekken are the players who value 'hype'. Clive is obviously not the most hype character out there, but he fits the narrative that Tekken wants to promote- that is giving people what they want which used to be Bruce Lee vs. Mike Tyson and has now become Bruce Lee vs. Dracula or IP man vs. Luke Skywalker. You hit the nail on the head with this video, and I love how you articulate your thoughts 😂👌🏾💯 I, too, have made the same remarks about VF and still do to this day, but I may reconsider it after hearing you out. I hope your Tekken content continues brother.. I haven't had such a good laugh in months and you satisfied that itch. Still, I am hopeful for better days when S2 releases.

[@lsv47]

That was my exact experience with the beta. It wasn't my forst time playing, I kinda knew the rules, so I wasn't weirded out by the differences to Tekken. It is legit like crack. It feels exact like a 2d fighter, and making reads on the fly legit feels like outplaying. Best of all, it doesn't make me feel dumb when I lose because it's immediately apparent what went wrong with my decision. It's such an interesting game.

[@zzzzz333-z5x]

Cant wait to play both. Like having two really good dishes to choose from :)

[@_egglord]

the constant interaction point is a big part of the reason why i love killer instinct

[@WaspGenocide]

VF does look interesting. Cool vid.

[@123mathtutorabc4]

Fantastic video! I really enjoyed it as someone who doesn't really play other fighting games besides Virtua Fighter and I love the Michelle Yeoh and Sammo Hung references.

[@russdellapenna]

I tried the last release they did of VF and had a ton of fun with Brad, and as a lifelong tekken player, that doesn't like literally any other fighting games, especially street fighter, and MK. I'm super excited for the next VF and trying my best to get good at the game!

[@binho2224]

Why can i watch 1 hour long class with professor Chad paying full attention while sleeping 30 min in while watching some college classes. Professor Chad 11/10. 8:09 The sound effects are the best

[@SerFableKnightYT]

It's honestly surprising that Tekken players don't even know about Virtua Fighter. The VF series was literally the blue print for the Tekken series. Maybe I'm just old (well not that old 😂). With virtua fighter making a comeback it's gonna dope!

[@MegaChidi]

Needed to hear this one!

[@finnTekken]

I am watching this now. Actually interested in learning vf now.

[@NR-fx8tk]

I totally agree with the thoughts you expressed in this presentation. Tekken 8 is a great game. I don't enjoy the problems it presents to solve however. I love Tekken 5 DR and the problems that brought. I still like to play that one. Unfortunately that game is dead online. VF is an amazing game too and I like the problems it presents. At least on a casual level so far. I wish Tekken was going back to how Tekken 5 was so I didn't have to abandon a franchise I once loved. Unfortunately the devs don't seem to care to cater to classic Tekken fans.

[@MagicKk7]

If Bandai Namco buffs sidesteps again or removes the absurd tracking with many moves, sidesteps will be good again

[@auroranamex5886]

And remove heat and remove armor and remove rage arts

[@LesserCheshire]

If Tekken had VF sidetepping, the game would be playable

[@j.i.nthenobody54]

@@auroranamex5886nah, Heat gives it flavor. I’d personally make it work how the Rage meter works in SamSho 2019, where you have to fill it up, and once you do, it starts going down. Doing a Heat smash would immediately reset it back

[@yukih_ellsweep-dz7ej]

Keen to try vf after this. Thanks! P.s. pineapple on pizza is the best though, respectfully.

[@JustN0tMe]

As a Bryan main I really appreciate you opening my eyes to this game. I was trying to learn Goh, but only was on the lab. Mindgames is why I love Bryan and T8 destroyed that to me

[@judolord6661]

absolutely fantastic video, how you covered the way Tekken feels to get angry at vs how VF feels to get angry at is what ive tried to say to others but in a much better way. one thing i want to say though, i understand why some people think Tekken outstyles VF, but its worth gettin familiar with VF3tb, promotional material or the game itself. i think a LOT of how 3D fighters aesthetic progressed is influenced by that game, gameplay wise as well, its a 3D game where movement and whiff punish is very strong. its also 4 buttons. see what im gettin at? lol. ive heard longtime VF community member Chanchai say this same thing, about how Tekken fans might like VF3tb in particular. basically, its definitely fair to say Tekken goes with it further like you said, i just also think VF doesnt get enough credit specifically in how it inspired these other 3D fighters aesthetically, not just mechanically. take it from someone who made a video of Jin in Tekken 4 set to Try Again by Aaliyah lol

[@bluemanvisions]

Are you an engineer by any chance? Very interesting way of describing fighting games.

[@ChadTheThirdUK]

Nah just analytical by nature :D

[@depictiongames9758]

Alright you have convinced me I’ll try vf

[@saporob]

The best analysis of fighting games out there. Another problem is the tekkenopedia you have to learn if you don't wanna die to a string every round and you have to pay even to watch a replay of a DLC... Virtua fighter problems is dick jab abuse making some match less spectacular. Zoning in 2d games make me quit SF, you can solve the "problem" if your character has a tool to solve it otherwise you have to wait and guess. Unfortunately tekken has been made to be toxic, you can see the difference between the average tekken player and the average VF player on streams. Aesthetically i agree VF has a really primitive design but at least you have a vision of a real martial art match, in tekken after T6 there has been an escalation of stupid childish design to attract younger players. Even pro tekken player don't like the design of the last characters look totally out contest in tekken. Why a guy should fight another guy with a sword, agun a bazooka a laser a teleport with their bare hands?!?

[@da_001]

Facts

[@undyingsoul3949]

Mate, what's the title of this amazing chill track playing in the background? I love it! ❤️‍🔥

[@ChadTheThirdUK]

I got you homie. Merry Christmas: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZLNapysh82ooassi=9F4oNi2WDnnGmoQR

[@undyingsoul3949]

​@@ChadTheThirdUKThank you very much, mate! A wise choice for your excellent talk! Merry Christmas! I hope you continue having joy with Virtua Fighter.

[@FalconBonk12]

I personally think a (just one, please) character with a sword can work, but only if it fits in the urban martial arts fantasy pitch as Chad said. There's about a billion martial arts based around swordplay that could be referenced in this character, and Sega DID have a forgotten concept character with a sword that didn't make it into the main series (Unless you count Fighters' Megamix. Look it up! It's silly). When it comes to the fantastical elements of VF, the flood gates have already been opened the second you take the time to research who Dural is -- It's nothing new. It's just how they present those fantastical elements is what I'm curious to see in the new VF release coming soon. However, I think Chad promptly nailed it on the head as to what I'd love to see. Tekken may outshine Virtua Fighter in terms of style, but that doesn't mean VF can't learn to be even more stylish, hopefully in a way that doesn't compromise the mechanical sanctity of what made that franchise so beloved and interesting, especially amongst the Japanese community of players. TL;DR: Swords are cool, style is forever

[@auroranamex5886]

Yes, Tekken problems are not enjoyable to deal with I see lots of Tekken discussions start with "I hate { char name }"

[@floatingaxedrop]

this some really great talk. btw just curious whats ur fav 2d fighting game?

[@squisics]

hey, really enjoyed this video! and well put... i've always thought combos were too long in other games, and not only that but hearing e.g. heihachi or lidia or some character making the same distinct grunts in the 8-10 second combo whilst i'm semi-afk slurping coffee just is more irritating than getting a work email notification :P and yet other people always would argue against me saying how much they want longer combos and cite things like mvc or some anime fighters with ridiculous long combos to memorise as if it's somehow a good thing? well i'm the opposite, i personally prefer the footsies and moment choices and out-thinking a partner chess-style and skill expression through lots of options, so i think you basically put that same thought more or less really well with your stories! so maybe virtua fighter 6 could be something special

[@longgband]

I've always been a tekken fan since the days of tekken 5 on the ps2 and I always wanted to try VF but the biggest barrier was always tht VF is hard to get your hands on and to find someone to play with. I am so happy that its finally released on pc. Tbh although tekken has been my primary fg, I've always loved doa5lr more but since doa is in hiatus with 6, vf5 revo fills the void that tekken 8 just couldn't. I mean I'm not a fan weapon based 3d fighters and was not a fan of the heat system in t8. That is why I find VF so fun and fair because it's not just flashy spectical it's pure unfiltered bare hands fighting. Tekken had this back in t5 atw to t7 but yeah in t8 nope.

[@ZakMon1]

Beginner tekken player with tekken 8. Loving the Virtua fighter showdown on ps5 Kage is my guy

[@florianneumann9441]

whup whup... i already installed it a while back and had a bit of fun with it...

[@samseison]

The reason I decided to try vf5 out, despite my issues with the games presentation, is the idea that their sidestep is consistent.... I want to know what that feels like 😅😅😅😅 Edit: your points on the aesthetics are 1000% correct. I've been trying to put into words what the issue was.....ama send this to my friends

[@ettoreozzy9932]

23:49 A thousand? Dear lord I can't believe you managed to force yourself to so much hours of Tekken 8. I couldn't even handle 100, I've stopped playing at the 100 hour mark months ago. I Think Tekken 7 I had around 1000 and Tag 2 probably 800 hours - yeah I know I don't play that much. Tekken 8 just isn't fun to play and is exhausting as well. 58:57 EXACTLY, which is why Tifa would make so much more sense since Aesthetically she wouldn't be a 100% fit but she has all the things to make it Mechanically correct and faithful to the series she's from. At the end, to me the point of "hating" Tekken 8 is because like you've said I also don't like the direction it's going and sure if there are people that like it and are having fun with it fine... However I don't want devs to see Tekken 8 and that to become the new Tekken going forward. Because I know for sure if this is the future of Tekken going forward I won't be playing Tekken anymore and it's has been my favorite fighting game forever and that is rough and sad for me - specially since I don't think I will be playing 3D fighting games anymore if that happens, since Soul Calibur died and I don't know if I would get into VF or DOA.

[@8bit_pineapple]

Just finished "The problems with Tekken" segment - The get ready for the next battle segment was too real 😅. For me at this point - I have a lot of time invested and want to go to a few more tournaments but am hoping the game changes in the future to be more enjoyable. T7 wasn't perfect but at least I could play footsies. Looking forward to watching the next part -I'd need a lot of convincing to play VF - I'm a bit autistic 😅 and the block sound effect in that game feels triggering to me - and my very basic understanding is the game is more about 3 way mixup reads than good spacing

[@sorubro2193]

Harada won't listen, tekken is another thing entirely now, like gg strive

[@ZzigZaG00NIN]

Happy there's more 3D Fighters to play It's hard to made 3D fighters work out compared to 2D foghters Tekken has built itself up for years so it stands out more but VF does a lot of great things that make it stand out in it's own way

[@Tortuga-sr4uy]

shenmue characters could def be in the next Virtua fighter too

[@spooky4223]

I got the beta and bought revo but im to into tekken right now to switch, i can only play one fighting game at a time. Currently playing Leroy right now because everyone else feels repetitive or unearned who knows how long leroy will satisfy me. Edit: the strike crushing throws might make me switch not gonna lie, sound like for honor; thanks for the info.

[@ATC43]

I havent resonated with a Tekken 8 videos so much before. Great Video. Everything you said about the game and in comparison to VF is spot on. After not touching the franchise for years, I played VF5 back when they released it on PS4 and remembered loving what little I played, but the netcode did it no justice and I was just too entrenched in the great T7 to stick with it. The release of T8 has shown me just how much of a step back the franchise has taken in terms of gameplay and character design. So much of a step that this go around I am actually going to full on drop Tekken in favor of Virtua Fighter. Playing Virtua Fighter REVO has reminded how much I liked it back on PS4 and Tekken 8 being...the way it is has completely opened my eyes. Where Tekken 8 is all about lock down pressure and forcing your opponent into weighted Coinflips + Chipping them to death, Virtua Fighter is about Rock, Paper, Scissors and pure mind games with option selects on top for those with the skill to pull them off(something Tekken 8 has damn near completely eliminated). The person who said Virtua Fighter is anti-flowchart was spot on. Stark contrat to Tekken 8 where everyone has the Heat mechanic to ENFORCE flowcharts and 50/50 guessing. Tekken 7, while having worse sidestepping overall had FAR fewer forced coinflip guessing interactions than Tekken 8 and it was so much better for it. Its so sad that the Fighting Game Series I've loved the most and put the most time into decided to throw out a system that has worked for them in favor of shrinking the skill gap and lowering the skill ceiling. Season 2 of Tekken 8 is the last chance I give them to show me they understand this game's problems. Not just Heat, but Chip, and stupid tracking on moves/strings and infinite rematches in online play. These are things that need to be demonstrated as being worked on or else I'm gone for good. Either way, whatever they do, I'm 100% adding VF5 to my rotation and VF6 will be my main Fighting Game going forward. I like various options in my Fighting Games, offensively AND defensively. Not one-sided coin-flip-based play.

[@blockchainballer4542]

100% agree with everything you said! Especially season 2 of Tekken 8 being their last chance. Either way, I think I’m going all in on VF5 and 6.

[@thatpersoneveryoneknowsbut7533]

As a Doa player myself everything you mentioned also applies to that as they took inspiration from Vf in alot of ways but i will give Vf a real try soon since its so similar to doa which ive always loved but 6 was a miss unfortunately

[@BerzerkDC]

Great video. Your enthusiasm and understanding of the game is already solid. I'm going to slightly disagree about how accessible vf is VS Tekken, the impact of big damage and high speed is a awesome and more importantly, for a regular gamer it's easier to understand virtua Fighter because it is string based. The aesthetic commentary is definitely going to be addressed with 6 I think. Its a Kung fu movie

[@s7nexample198]

Honestly same for me man, I am definitely enjoying VF5 and even though it is one of ny least knowledgeable games...Honestly don't care about losing. Been having a blast in it. Lowkey Tekken 8 I dropped with the same issues and even SF6 due to throw loop setups being overabused too much.

[@TheFrameMinister]

It's not that you hate guessing you hate forced guessing. And probably hate long forced guessing sessions even more.

[@-katokin-7064]

Basically, virtua fighter requires you to understand what you're doing and what the opponent is doing to win. But nothing is overtunned. where In tekken 8 and sf6, you're just coping with stupid stuff like yoshi flash or throw loops. Their is counter play but it's so heavily weighted in the opposing players favor it's not really a conversation/back and forth. Your just dealing with the overtuned option not the oponents thoughts/style. With more power you don't need to think. With less power you need to think more When you give characters or system mechanics too much power and utility even if there is counter play it just becomes about coping with options and the flow chart rather than both of us actively and always having to change. Their is a different in guessing because your forced to because of power reasons and guessing because of skill based reasons. When you guess because of power reasons Their isn't any nuance because if your wrong you just get put in a terrible circumstance that repeats it self(vortex) or your Just slowly losing going coping with each bad situation rather than actually turning it around. Skill based guessing is what happens when things are balanced for the most part. Neither of you have moves that are so powerful or versatile that they dictate everything in the game hence that's where flow charting and tier based playing comes from. Guessing isn't bad when the options are intricate and aren't weighted too much in either direction. when defense is viable and offense is viable their can be a conversation of minds. fighting games are solving problems, and adaptation. The player who thinks more and solves more problems quickly can win but offense and defense shouldn't be unbalanced in either direction because if you know what the opponent will do, you should win most of the time.

[@ramijackson3978]

That background track is fucking sick, where is it from? Great video!

[@aaaaaaidanz]

"No.3 Home" from Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine.

[@ramijackson3978]

@aaaaaaidanz Thanks boss!

[@aaaaaaidanz]

@@ramijackson3978 No problem!

[@da_001]

You remind me and sound like my fav street fighter player SMUG. subbing because of that plus you're passing knowledge down. I learned a lot from this video dude. You should have classes. Tekken 8 is the death of Tekken. Seeing harada lose to cuddlecore a while back made me realize he had no skills and the devs care about flash over substance. Tekken needs new managers badly. Hopefully VF kills Tekken when it drops. 😅😅😅😅

[@ChadTheThirdUK]

@@da_001 act like you won't get command grabbed.... (Thanks for the support dawg!)

[@YanParoni]

Same, enjoyed the hell out of VF

[@isquashu2268]

This comment is for engagement. Have a nice day 😀

[@MrNinjafreak]

Well, I hope the majority of the Tekken community sits this one out tbh. Considering how much some of the Tekken content creators has been gatekeeping.

[@Ragingkimmy]

39:10 exactly

[@shaideyfresh1]

The VF beta was so great! But Tekken isn't anything without VF. And I'm not a fan of how Tekken went way too far with the anime b.s.

[@VeilKou]

The Get Ready for the next BATTLE....battle feeling is truly harrowing. That's when I realized there isn't a character I didn't loathe on the screen. And Kazuya is the worst of it, he was fine and the he was overtuned needlessly.

[@Ragingkimmy]

You say everything in this video I've been saying for years I'm so glad you bought up it being fun to lose I just get told to go back to Smash Bros

[@niwona_]

I would kill for a 70mm monochromatic mode in the new VF. Turn off the HUD, immersive feedback, even subtitles. Shamisen and the taiko getting the blood pumping.

[@AaIsForAaliyas]

I feel in tekken 8, you can win relying heavily on rage arts and heat burst. When I play tekken 8, the problem with side stepping with the amount of tracking in the game is just honest to goodness next level bs. I dislike all the tracking. I don't even utilize heat mechanics in 8 all that much. I'll throw them out for chip and that's it. Or overwhelm you in a situation to get you. But I don't enjoy the fact that key moves I'd like to use, are tied behind heat. And to add new moves that are bound to heat just turns me off from Tekken 8.

[@griin6]

Tekken is the League of fighting games

[@Ragingkimmy]

Your Vulkan comment is kind of funny as Star Trek is known for time travel lol but we get you

[@KiaiStudio]

1:01:16 I've been talking to people about how a Medieval Fantasy character just doesn't fit Tekken's modern-futuristic eastern martial arts whole vibe and they always hit me with the "bUt Tekken hAs spACE ninjaS n RObOts adn BEARS" and im just sad man 😂 I dont know if people are just missing all that cultural baggage of media and etc (like martial arts movies) or it's something else but it's rough 😅

[@j.i.nthenobody54]

Besides, Clive is a guest. It doesn’t really matter if he fits or not because he ain’t a mainstay

[@KiaiStudio]

@@j.i.nthenobody54 That's fair. But i would personally prefer one that fits better

[@The_Buff_Guy]

If you’re not having fun with Leo, xiaoyu and feng… why not try kazuya? Seriously. Most fun you’ll ever have in a video game.

[@ChadTheThirdUK]

🤮🤮 No but seriously I have tried him (in 7 & 8) and he couldn't be further from my style (mechanically or aesthetically) if he tried. BUT I do get why you guys love him. The power, the attitude, the feeling you get when you bet big and get rewarded. The satisfaction of landing a well-practiced technique in a real match. Switching characters a bunch showed me that my issue isn't with who I'M USING, but rather with what I'm DEALING with. Not even Kazuya is gonna save me from wanting to Strangle when Alisa is on the screen....

[@The_Buff_Guy]

@ I can’t blame you one single bit for the Alisa hate.

[@The_Buff_Guy]

@ perhaps the reason you feel kazuya doesn’t appeal to you is what you mentioned here: you bet big. Kazuya isn’t about gambling. If you’re gambling with kazuya, you’re not playing him how he should be played. It’s about conditioning your opponent into respecting your big moves and then abusing those tools for big damage. No gambling required. But if that’s still not your thing, fair enough bro. Perhaps try heihachi or devil jin?

[@TheOneAndOnlySame]

Lol side walks don't work in Tekken. Yeah, if they work 3 times out of 5 then they don't work.

[@da_001]

That's why I love soulcalibur 8, running a horizontal is HOLY BASED

[@JusticeAngel]

Tekken players aren't good at learning

[@ashjudd]

49:29 yah

[@edubrovsky]

Aren't you just describing the experience of being new to a FG? Maybe you've run out of fun problems to solve in Tekken cause you're TGS? And in VF you're new so you can solve problems fast and get dopamine fast from solving these problems.

[@ShimanoGoro1]

Well Tekken 8 isn’t exactly a lot of fun problem solving. Heat engager into +17 nothing but Pray situation. T8 id say needs defensive mechanics to be better. A lot of situations where like everyone says, you guess right only to have to guess again and again. Like DOA (gooner games yes) agressive but it had the hold system. VF5 is always agressive down to the fact the timer is 45secs…yet it’s been beloved and still played for like 10+ years. The VF criticism is its presentation, not its gameplay. While T8 is suffering now from gameplay criticism

[@ChadTheThirdUK]

This is a good insight and maybe your right. But the truth is, I know enough about fighting games to understand the basics of EVERY fighting game I try. I played Street fighter and had some fun but didn't fall in love. I played mortal Kombat and had some fun but didn't fall in love. I played doa when that came out , had some fun but didn't fall in love. Played soul Calibur and DID fall in love but I enjoyed Tekken 7 far more so ultimately went back to tekken Right now (as of writing) I simply don't enjoy Tekken. There's. Clearly more I can learn, more I can do to improve, more I can master but I'm not motivated to do it. Don't enjoy the puzzle enough to want to become better at mastering it. But virtua fighter (at least for now) is something I'm fascinated by and even if I do ultimately end up dropping it a month/year from now I legit wanna get as good "pretty good" at it first. I might not become fluent in VF but I WILL become conversational. Believe IT! 😂

[@edubrovsky]

@@ChadTheThirdUK nice man, gl with getting fluent in VF. I've also started playing it since open beta, I think fundamental design of VF is very cool. I'm gonna play both Tekken and VF but Tekken will still be my main game. For me the problem with VF is that it doesn't have some QOL features. I got into T8 with 0 FG experience and I really wanted to understand and learn T8 because of its replay system and practice mode. In VF I'm not sure how I can improve cause my friends don't play it and in ranked it's only ft2 and there're no replays

[@guutenks2498]

​@@edubrovskydamn not knocking you or anything but theres really people out there whos first fighting game was tekken 8, that shit is sad 😂 missed out on so many fire fighting games.

[@michaelromeo9567]

@@ChadTheThirdUK VF is a drug.. Believe me. I play lot of fighting games since the 90's.. When I REALLY learned to play VF , it was like I never played video games before. Something happened into my brain , it's amazing.

[@thatpersoneveryoneknowsbut7533]

You played Ling and still didn't enjoy it personally thats the only time i really enjoy Tekken shes a blast in 8

[@tobiasvik3278]

Alisa is on a different level. She's gotten so boring and awful to fight that she won't make me ragequit, but I stop playing every time after a match against her. It's a hateful character.