What the hell is happening with Forza?

[@ruzgarakgul2051]

How much does PD pay you to make these videos?

[@randomcallsign]

They pay in your tears.

[@Kaylos29]

@@randomcallsign I'm a Forza fanboy, and Random Callsign is basically on the money. In fact the hardcore Forza crowd is taking their criticisms even further. Even the most Forza postive youtubers are coming out critical of it.

[@boredguy2935]

@randomcallsign while I see the issues with Forza, GT7 is still egregiously bad 2 years later with NO developer communication. You could at least do both Games fairly Both games are absolutely shit shows, people just act like GT isn't despite GT having innumerable issues and tons of design flaws and lacking areas that no one really will discuss

[@XboxStation-xh8cw]

​@@boredguy2935he's a diehard fanboy. He even believes GT7 is better sim than ACC. So you can imagine.

[@FedericoFroebel-dw4je]

Feeling better with himself as a Gran Turismo lover is his payment. He needs to bash FM to have some sense of security

[@OsirisPL]

People are not stupid. They can see that it was just a quick, low budget, unfinished cash grab with cut content. Also nobody appreciates being lied to. Built from ground up my a$$.

[@coyy9106]

Good to see people aren’t falling for their blatant lying. The consumers aren’t stupid. Just sad to see what Forza’s become. How the mighty fall.

[@Rene-jv7rf]

Forza was never mighty..GranTurismo was always better except one version of GT where they used cars from GT2😁😁

[@Kieron762]

Falling*

[@rainsilent]

@@Rene-jv7rf Forza was mighty in terms of copies sold regularly being near the top for racing games. FM sold incredibly poorly.

[@XboxStation-xh8cw]

​@@Rene-jv7rfdelusional. Forza Motorsport has been constantly stomping on GT from 5 to 7. GT4 was the last good game in the series.

[@Rene-jv7rf]

@@XboxStation-xh8cw yeah...no stop beiing delusional....

[@vyasrushi5177]

If GT7 comes to PC this year, I don't think T10 will be able to revive FM, they should just move on to the next game and actually build it up from the ground this time

[@mclarenfiji4586]

T10's saving grace is that there's no plans of GT7 coming to PC, thank goodness it isn't going there imo

[@DanniV8]

I highly doubt a Gran Turismo title will ever be released for PC

[@maxmesker562]

I hope assetto corsa 2 can become the gran turismo of pc .

[@loganross984]

The sad part is it took them 6 years to make this game and it was broken af as well as no one noticed any changes from motorsport 7 to this one and the leveling system is dumb. Js

[@dthendrick1]

It took them 6 years to build this cluster of a game, it would take even longer to build a new one. Turn 10s only option is to fix this game and do everything in their power to get players to comeback. Is that possible, I don't know, but thats the only realistic option they have. They could just do the bare minimum to not get sued, then move all man power over to Horizon 6, and keep a skeleton crew to manage FM2023, that's the other route I see them taking.

[@Dexter01992]

As an ex-livery maker for Forza games (I spent easily entire afternoons after a single livery or layer groups multiple times since FM2), the push playground games had on FH4 and 5 on banning contents they found offensive was a massive letdown that pushed me to stop altogether into making liveries, no matter if Turn 10 making motorsport has nothing to do with it. I refuse to spend days making seemingly innocent content for my liveries for them to randomly decide to ban me and my account simply because one of the admins had a bad day and decided I must be punished for a random nitpick in my content he finds offensive over their gigantic grey area rules.

[@BlueBear5791]

This! I used to be big into making designs aswell but now you can't look up certain phrases. I tried looking up Good Smile Racing which is a real company but it's "a banned term."

[@GraveUypo]

I was banned from their forums back at the FM6 release for giving constructive negative feedback about the game for no less than 39 thousand years. Forza mods aren't even human beings. They're like reddit mods on more of whatever reddit mods have on their veins.

[@QuikkNic]

@@GraveUypo People tend to live longer as time passes.

[@thesprawl2361]

@@QuikkNic Depends on whether you believe the flow of time is real or just an illusion. If something like modal realism or the Many Worlds postulate is correct then all that exists are 3D arrangements of particles representing the universe at every different instant possible, and the flow of time emerges from fitting those arrangements together according to best matching principles. Each arrangement that has brains in it also has memories of past arrangements in those brains, and expectations of future arrangements in those brains too, and that means the arrangements can only fit together in a certain way, like frames in a film. To a character in a film there's only one way they can experience the story, even if you throw the frames into a big pile or run them backwards on a projector. They'll still feel time flow normally. I mean...just sayin'.

[@TimFerber]

I play it and like it but its just a huge missed opportunity with a bit more love and a bit of developement, it would have been an insane game.

[@CLOYO]

Nah, they should ACTUALLY built it from the ground up. It's a worse game than the previous/

[@eugenehavens]

Love your optimism, but this is said about every bad game ever released.

[@rotarydude9737]

I somewhat doubt youve played the previous generation titles, Ie 1-4.

[@Cecil97]

They were too busy making the game playable by a literal dead person than make more content and functional penalty system

[@PeterBee911]

So apparently, uninstalling the game after 15 minutes of horrendous graphics and numb driving feeling was a good call on my part.

[@tirespark]

same here i have a beast pc being forced to play 60 fps and my moza did not want to feel anywhere near as good as the previous titles

[@miner2119]

​@@tirespark i have rtx 4090 and the way forza runs is insult, i uninstalled it

[@kurtphipps7823]

Only pc user's seems to be bitching about it, bloody these videos do more damage than good, just my opinion,

[@Dance5578]

With a 4080 the game for me ran so bad I had to uninstall it and insta refund. I couldn’t go past the intro section as both of the race tracks had missing textures of the road, so it was like driving with a noclip. Triple A title my ass…

[@DanielAlvarez-o6n]

@@kurtphipps7823 the game is a piece of shit start admitting it

[@andreasmoller9798]

Despite some issues gt7 still has, its far better game than fm, i was hoping their would release something that could put just a little bit of pressure on pd, but fm is just not doing anything to gt7,

[@Dragostream]

not true at all!!!! after FM i did buy a ps5 and gt7 thanks to forza!!

[@andreasmoller9798]

@@Dragostream i have already seen some made the switch from fm to gt7 and never looked back, and much to that is thanks to the horrible state in the new fm, the issues is almost beyond repair, and when they they might get the game where it needs to be it might be to late as most might have already leaved by then, and this could even hurt the franshise in the future, i could see gt7 raise it sells a lot now because of how they drop the ball with fm,

[@Unprotected1232]

How many years did they spend developing the this game? Makes you wonder what's going on behind the scenes.

[@Rene-jv7rf]

It was build from the ground up😂🤣😂

[@ramirez4456]

​@Rene-jv7rf where is it then?

[@superninja252]

3 years at most They started dev late 2019 after years updating FM7

[@Australiaisupsidedown]

​@@ramirez4456 the ground IDOIT

[@tristman8413]

Hopefully they're putting all of their effort Into the new fable game

[@Kaylos29]

Multiplayer was the best feature at launch. However, we've learned matchmaking doesn't work (lobbies are basically random because of how fast it fills them), FFR doesn't work and track limit penalties are way overdone and inconsistent (lose time going off track, here's a 2 second penalty), dirty drivers have figured out how to abuse the system not only getting away with penalties but giving it to the victim, safety doesn't matter, skill rating doesn't matter (7-12 seconds spread a lap) leading to dangerous situations, car balance is terrible in spec series with car characteristics that don't match (massive differences in speed and handling and pace between cars), and there is no true competitive scene ala GT7, Iracing, or LFM on ACC because the game can't manage proper splits. They had a chance to follow in GT7s footsteps as the inclusive option, but for XBox and PC, and they have basically blown it and show they don't even understand that the competitive scene is where the free social media marketing is.

[@DanielAlvarez-o6n]

Yes very true didnt look at it like this before

[@BSEUNHIR]

I have no idea what the hell is going on at Turn10 to continously drop the ball like this, but I do not doubt that Microsoft is ready to have a lot of heads rolling.

[@camacho6100]

The fact that Micorsoft bought all these studios is the problem....but all the idiots don't get it yet.

[@tankiller9638]

Hopefully hasn't been a good game since Horizon 3 and if we want to feel old...that was damn near a decade ago

[@yanlo3159]

​@@tankiller9638Fuck dude can't believe its been that long 😂. FH3 really was a hell of a party. After FM7,FH4 and 5's all disappointed, I knew that Forza was in a hell of a hangover.

[@GraveUypo]

diversity hires.

[@SonicCommenter]

Microsoft owning it is the problem. Microsoft has bought too many game devs and is mishandling all of them.

[@3DKiwi]

A lot of the problems could have been avoided if the developers actually played and tested their own game before launch. I've stopped playing. It just isn't fun or fair.

[@dthendrick1]

I honestly don't think the devs are car people anymore. Games like FM4 oozed with passion for all forms of Motorsport, this game feels like it was made by an intern who drives a Prius or rides a bike to work, who's boss told them to make a racing game. They should have caught the bugs while playtesting, but even other things like how GT and LMP cars handle, how cars sound, how rain effects slicks, and so many other little details car enthusiasts would pick up on and laugh at made it to the game. Particularly having no GT, LMP, or actual Motorsport events in a Motorsport single player "career" pure insanity.

[@ionutortian5885]

I this the most important problem in this game are how worse cars are handling

[@gsprings43]

i think they put it out unfinished because they did'nt want to put anymore money into it,until after it generated some money once released

[@kennetha6594]

Your expectations were obviously too high to begin with. I was sure it would bomb when I saw pink haired developers in their game update videos a year ago.

[@gsprings43]

@@kennetha6594 coming from Sim's,,,I suppose your right,,,, it's a weird sim/arcade hybrid too me

[@DeejayJeanP]

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: Microsoft's formula is making the most amount of profit with the least amount of effort and investments. They're just SOL that people are starting to catch up on it.

[@Skumtomten1]

Are they becoming the new EA?

[@opshredderytp]

​@@Skumtomten1Yes

[@fabienlarvor8283]

It's not Microsoft's formula. It's the entire gaming industry's formula. Microsoft are just the ones who got late to the party while people had time to get sick of it.

[@JLswatchthis]

Im a diehard xbox fan and what you are saying is true, forza and infinite were total not finished games when they released

[@Australiaisupsidedown]

​@@fabienlarvor8283 every game ms has released recently has been garbage. good things have came out from other companies though.

[@TheMostSavageOfAllGeese]

The trend of AAA studios releasing unfinished, bugged to shite, poorly designed games in spite of having huge budgets, years of development and in most cases charging $70 usd will come to an end this year. Gamers are sick of this shit and will not tolerate incompetence on this level all the while attempting this live service microtransaction bull is hilarious.

[@Rene-jv7rf]

I have no complains about Playstation games...they are ll great....

[@TheMostSavageOfAllGeese]

@@Rene-jv7rf I can see that on PlayStation. I’m considering getting a console at this point. I think I’d enjoy some of Sony exclusives like Gran Turismo and Ghost of Tsushima

[@Rene-jv7rf]

@@TheMostSavageOfAllGeese then is rise of Ronin strait up you alley😉

[@ajrichar0]

@andrewbryan9363 I'm with you, mate. I'm a PS5 player, absolutely love GT7 (me, 18 months with issues ironed out) but was stung by EA WRC. A triple-A game from experienced Devs (Codemasters) and a giant publisher (EA) who delivered a game full of performance issues that, depending on the event, are so distracting it is borderline unplayable. In 2023/24, consumers shouldn't be finding such poor quality in AAA games, yet here we are. If it was any other industry, it'd be a death knell.

[@Jarek_iRek]

After an hour or so with the game I came to some conclusions: - This game was made by people who do not care about driving, do not know how to drive a car. Bicycle at best. - This game was made by people who do not care and know anything about motorsport and what is " motorsport" and how to make it into a career mode. - This game on PC was made by people who think 3 monitors, VR and good FFB wheels do not exist. - This game was made by people who though making it playing itself( beacause tickboxes" accessibility " and " inclusivity ") is more important than less bugs, cheats, crashes and a good online mode.

[@EarthIsFlat456]

Really well said.

[@jjay350]

I miss the old Turn10

[@Jarek_iRek]

@@jjay350 I don't think they will return. Gamepass is a double edged sword. Sounds cool but makes Microsoft Games Studios lazy. Few years ago Turn10 HAD to make a decent game. Game had to sell in milions , get them money and move a lot of Xbox consoles. All they have to make right now is a game. To fill a tile in Gamepass menu. When you have no reason to make a great product you make shit.

[@ScottAhearnShipbuilder]

I've played Forza regularly since 3, and while I was expecting this one to come in a little hot, in my opinion Forza 7 was pretty good in the end once it had a Series X to run on, so I figured there would be some solvable early-release problems there, but that six years of development there'd at least be a whole game there. So I bought the DLC to get early access. That $40 was such a total waste. I've NEVER bought DLC for a gamepass game before, that was a new thing for me, and I know it's something they want people doing. After this experience, I never will again. This game is a disaster on a whole other level from 7, and it's never gonna get fixed. The bosses will see the player count and the budget just won't be there. Best case scenario they move on after this year's content to working on a sequel. Worst case the studio gets gutted. I always thought a PC port of GT7 would be a killshot to Forza Motorsport, I really never thought it would off itself like this.

[@pixelhotdish]

"Best case scenario they move on after this year's content to working on a sequel..." Ive thought about this quite a bit recently. As a fan of the Forza series leading up to this release, I dont really know what I would want to happen here. They have stated that their intention for this title is to be a foundation for forza content for years to come, but after watching them fumble the launch of this game and faceplant so hard I would prefer if they do what you said; find a point on the calendar, announce support is ending, and go back to the drawing board. If I were in Phil Spencers position, I would have a long serious discussion with the studio heads about this... because if the design team that I work for delivered a project in a state like this, we would all be let go.

[@Albannt52]

Thank you for covering the issues that are troubling us

[@dankgankster4100]

Forza 4 from 2011 blows every forza after out of the water. Pathetic doesn’t even begin to describe what forza has become

[@BansheeNT-D]

Forza 4 still holds up to this day. And the Community Mods are very very chill. Critique was allowed and the devs really cares about product.

[@sparkietrap6257]

Like I said in hoki’s video, this is what happens when you take a 6 year vacation

[@randomcallsign]

was the vacation from the ground up

[@rosaria8384]

The developers did this to themselves. It may sound like gaslighting but honestly, Turn 10 deserves all this for betraying everyone's trust for six years.

[@DeejayJeanP]

Stop blaming devs, shows you know nothing about game development. They are following orders and then execute because that's what they're getting paid for. The higher ups are the problems, which is the greedy Microsoft. Stop being so ignorant.

[@Norbliin]

@@DeejayJeanP But it's also devs problem because they made the game buggy and many features didn't work or broke the game while playing. For example replays still do not work to this day.

[@dthendrick1]

To be fair, shareholders and corporate board members have more decision making power than the devs. I know alot of devs have live service models but are forced to implement it by shareholders. Also they are forced to meet craz6 deadlines by people who know nothing about game creation. Also there are ridiculous ESG and DEI requirements that have to be met in order to get funding for big titles like this. Yea, the devs have plenty to be guilty of, but I have a gut feeling if every decision was left up to the devs, we would get much better games.

[@rosaria8384]

​@@dthendrick1 Fair enough. I see this in other games when corporate institutions get involved. When Team 17 was in charge of Hell Let Loose, it started losing quality compared to when the devs were in full charge of the game. It's like the corporations are making the biggest decisions that affect their end product.

[@DeejayJeanP]

@@Norbliin So you think people who spent years on getting good at something would release their work to the world broken? Or is it more likely that the higher ups are pushing for shit to be released asap? Use your head man

[@PeterBee911]

"But hey, for 10 dollars a month, it's not so bad"

[@vakill26motta]

I know i aint playing it anymore.. as someone that plays forza since the 1st one this game is a mockery to me, a sad waste of my money in a soulless game that lost everything that it ever had good and fun about it.

[@benprice1984]

i would like to play it but it takes forever to load into the main screen it happened after the last update. So i have given up and uninstalled it and gone back to acc

[@Mathias-RetroFutureTech]

They probably should introduce a classic singleplayer mode, while leaving the builders cup (mode) in the game. I really enjoyed my first few cups, feeling how the car evolves with every race. What's the biggest letdown is the performance, losing my wheel settings constantly and of course no freaking VR...

[@GraveUypo]

you know what i really wanted? A campaign that's a bit like death rally (dos). no, hear me out. The idea behind it is VERY simple: You start at the bottom of an ongoing leaderboard, and your objective is to reach the top. You start with the literal worst car in the game, with no upgrades. Every DAY, there's like... 5 race leagues for you to choose from (it's just 3 in death rally, but forza would require more). Only 8 drivers per race, so you can get familiar with individual NPCs. More than that is just clutter. The races are let's say: Beginner - Amateur - PRO - Seasoned Veteran - Champion, each of them increasing massively in prize, both currency and points. You have to PICK one race. You go in one, you can't go in the others for the rest of the day. You can literally go into any of them with any car you want, at any time you want. Every AI character on the "leaderboard" also get a chance to pick a race to participate in. So, while you're moving up the leaderboard scores, so are they. If you're racing on the starting categories, the ones racing on champion, for instance, are actually gaining ground on you. But there's not room for all drivers every day, so some get left out. Top 6 participants score, bottom 2 not only do not get any score, but they also do not get any money. Losing has to be penalizing. If you lose all of your money and default, you can't race for yourself anymore, but you can take contracts and race to earn points for your rivals in exchange for money, until you can repair your own car. There is an upkeep to cars, so you can't make stupid calls and bet on luck. Every race you have fuel the car, repair the damages, replace blown tires... the lot. And this cost varies from car to car. So sometimes it's a better strategy not to aim so high, but drive a low maintenance car. Cars are expensive and divided into tiers. Prices do not follow real world prices but rather the position of the car in that tier list. The cost of EVERYTHING goes up as you go up a car tier. So you better start winning more and better races or you'll go bankrupt just from the increased upkeep. you can keep multiple cars, but they will have upkeep even if you don't use them, so it's advisable that you only keep one car, and maybe a safety car with very little upkeep to get you back in the game in case something really bad happens to your main rig. So, you use your race winnings and sponsorship to either upgrade the car you own, or buy a better one. or gamble, bet on yourself, or other cars. anyway, find cool ways to spend the money other than just improving your car. Replace the combat in death rally with something else interesting. Maybe you can battle other cars for sponsorship. Get challenges, and shit like that. Anyway, make a campaign out of it that takes the average player 100 days to reach the top spot on every playthrough. Keyword being on average. A experienced player could speed run with tricks and win in maybe 15 days, because the longer you take, the more points you have to get, so each "shortcut" you take on your carreer compounds extremely fast, and others could take over a year. ANd these happen whether you log in or not. If you don't play for a day, you just don't win points. That simple. Put an opt-in async online component on this (put SOME human players on the leaderboards, so you and your friends can have the same "campaign" even if you don't actually race the same race, or who knows, maybe you do, via rivals), and there you go. A fun game with an engage daily activity for you take partake in. Then make a CHEAT CODE that let's you use this mode without the one race per day limit for players who want to binge this content. And obviously, put this in ADDITION to a traditional campaign, not as a replacement. That's not a realistic setup but it would be the most fun campaign for any race game ever... which is what death rally still has imo. Games are too afraid to be games nowadays. Everything is so formulaic and stiff, and everything ends up sucking. games need to go back to being games.

[@Mathias-RetroFutureTech]

@@GraveUypo Man I would definitely play that career mode a LOT! ^^ I assume you are not coincidentally a game designer ? In that case I congratulate you, you have just absolutely DESTROYED every guy that works for Turn 10 in that function. 🤯🤣👍

[@yanlo3159]

Story Time. Still remember when Microsoft sent out a series of emails for us the Forza insiders stating that they would like are input for the new Forza Motersport, this was around 2019. Initially it began with some traditional questions about when we began playing Forza, do you play Horizon as well, our age etc etc etc. Then when it came to playing online I got started to get bad feelings about the game. They began asking how many hours we had in online in FM7, if we were in online racing leagues, were we in clubs and things of that manner. Well at that point in a very direct message I let them know that I was intrested in a Forza Motersport closer to FM2,3, and 4. Not a Forza that felt like gta online×fortnight monstrosity. Main reason I say this is cause one of questions asked was how big of a following we had on Twitch or other gaming related video platforms. When I let them know that I had none and preferred a well built career mode and fun game as opposed to some online gaming whorehouse like gta. Well next email states that I was no longer needed and that my input was valuable and blah blah blah. Shame to see Forza in general looking like a pimped out hooker now a days

[@jjay350]

Sounds like they tried to make this game centered around the "influencer" crowd, who has ironically been ignoring this game.

[@namesii1880]

My biggest problem with the game is honestly the physics and handling. I didn't expect the most realistic sim on the market from it. But it isn't even fun to drive, the cars have such strange handling.

[@fil_lokka]

I gave up trying to get it to feel OK with my wheel,

[@simonn2045]

Handling is so inconsistent it makes it impossible

[@BurningBroadcast]

Its the best handeling Forza by far though. Absolutely huge improvement over fm7 in terms of FFB and physics. It does handle more floaty compared to actual simulators though,. bit weird. I use Dan Suzuki's settings, which work pretty good I recommend giving those a try if you are still willing.

[@Retheraq]

Again, Forza is a series for 12 year-olds. How is everyone surprised that it sucks? It appeared out of nowhere when NFS was bad (underground and the whole fast and furious phase), but it never was a good series. Most people who play it are so young they haven't even played proper NFS games, such as 2, 3 or 4. How can you trust people who have so little life experience? They literally have seen no better.

[@kireta21]

I have it, and play few races from time to time, but this game just feels, out of better word, tiresome. There's just way too many nuisances for me to play it for more than 30 minutes in one sitting. Nothing I would consider deal breaker on its own, more like death by a thousand cuts from bad design choices all over the game, that eventually build up fatigue and cause me to quit and play AC or Dirt Rally 2. Or even FH5, which I could write book of complains about, but still manages to sucker me in, which ends with me racing in random cars for hour or more just for hell of it.

[@Shearlogistics1]

To me it's the toxicity that comes with game pass. There are players that exploit races, using downgraded or formula cars to ruin every multiplayer game. EA has formula racing, or revamp the rules, no downgraded cars, no formula cars. I hate the painting glitches and zoom levels. Plus where is the matching with other skill levels? I avoid crashes others deliberately take you out to pass. I raced p class today 69% were formula and downgraded. My lap perfect 1.20 min while they're doing 1.05 min. It's Forza Motorsport not formula 1.

[@CharlieHolmesT]

I didn't buy it simply because of the car progression. I want to be able to buy a car and make it into what I want without hours of grinding per car.

[@legendarycheekymonkey]

I've played every Forza game ever and this one is the worst. I gave it a pass at the start, plus new game novelty but I found myself getting more frustrated than I was enjoying it. I stopped playing and I'm glad they are addressing the issues but I fear it may be too late. By the time they fix it there will be nobody left playing it. I've been playing and enjoying a lot of Automobilista 2 and Assetto Corsa lately and I enjoy pretty much every minute in those so it's gonna be hard to get dragged back. Shame because I love building and tuning cars which is what I enjoyed about Forza until they made it tedious and boring.

[@fil_lokka]

I feel exactly the same 👍

[@jonathanshaver3001]

100%. I absolutely hate cheesing games, but this one had me spending WAY too much time letting the A.I. run laps just to level up and gain cp. If they ever decide to fix or change it, I'd redownload it in a heartbeat. The rest of the issues will likely get fixed, but I don't envision them changing this aspect much.

[@legendarycheekymonkey]

@@jonathanshaver3001 Absolutely. I used to love picking out a car, choosing a class and tuning it up then doing some laps and tweaking it here and there. I might end up with a few different tunes for different tracks or classes so I'd buy multiples of the car. Not possible in this game without a massive grind. Yes you can save tunes but say you try to enter a B class event with a car you tuned to A, it won't show the car so you have to back out to load the tune. More tedium. Then you get into an AI race and blast past the entire grid with no challenge and you can't catch the leader because it somehow disappears into the distance. There's no actual racing in this racing game. You go online and it's worse, everyone is just trying to kill you! I had some good races early on but it soon descended into madness even though I had S safety and 4900+ skill.

[@miner2119]

Ams2 and assetto corsa is just on another level, and their made by a small team which is so funny

[@legendarycheekymonkey]

@@miner2119 I just spent the last few hours racing in AMS2 in a GT1 Mclaren F1 round Brands Hatch against AI and I had more fun in that one race than the entire time I've played Forza. I think Xbox is forgetting that games are supposed to be fun, it's not just Forza I've had this feeling lately.

[@kraenk12]

Mediocre, unfinished GAAS title from a company known for mediocre, unfinished GAAS games…why is anyone surprised?

[@DurrtyRBeats]

SINCE UPDATE 3.0 ME AND MANY MANY OTHER PEOPLE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO LAUNCH THE GAME.. AND NO WORD ON A FIX..

[@Ho3n3r]

The main issue is that it's just way too expensive for what it is - essentially a simcade racer at best. On PC, It's priced like it not only rivals but outshines ACC, AC1, rF2 etc. by a long way, but in reality it's almost a different genre - more like the type of brainless fun game you'd pay $30 for just to have something to play on your controller on a Friday evening when you're bored. The biggest over-estimation of self-worth since Ian Bell with PCARS 3.

[@rainsilent]

I disagree. These kind of games sold for this price incredibly well in the past. Thus it being too expensive outright just isn't the reason. Same goes for PCars3. Clearly the market is there. The issue with both games is that they both widely missed the mark in multiple fundamental ways. Both tried things that went against what the players wanted and, rightfully so, it bit them in the ass. In FM's case the bullshittery of the rest of the gaming industry of forcing players to play longer via artificial bottlenecks was a major one. T10 has been trying to implement various other things from the gaming industry to get secondary sales out of the game since FM5. This is one of the major reasons FM4 is seen as the last great FM game. This is the first time they tried something that directly interfered with the player's time in game.

[@karlpedersen7]

An Arcade racer made for children. My 6yr old son loves it. Enough said 😂

[@steveconnelly3209]

I haven't bothered and I guess I won't either.

[@richardb8380]

I'm not naming names, but these "reviewers" who said it was good. why aren't you playing this game? The most worrying thing is "they have seen feedback about bad ai" they couldn't see that themselves. its laughable.

[@jjay350]

It's almost like there wasn't real players leaving those reviews, almost like they were planted.

[@HungryManticore]

All I want (apart from bug fixes) is a decent career mode that I can play offline.

[@mechwarrior13]

Outside of the competitive issues, they made the solo experience so unplayable (shitty events, car lvl bs, horrible ai) I dont even want to play it even casually.

[@jjay350]

Same. I played to because I enjoyed getting a car and instantly turning it into my ideal version of that car. Can't do that anymore.

[@Marathonianbull]

Really enjoying FM right now, funny topic!

[@alexbrewer3675]

Diversity hiring for corporate scores, replaced the passion for all things cars. FM2023 has no soul. More than the bugs, the lies from Turn 10, and the bare bones state of the game, it's missing a soul.

[@Sindroome24]

Thanks for including TORA's message! Darkzer from TORA here.

[@drchtct]

classic case of many youtubers (not you, sir) hyping the game on day 1 to farm clicks, then trashing the game after a week to farm clicks, and then dropping it after a week. You can observe this pattern with almost every new racing game release

[@AKK5I]

How many times did they say this game was 'built from the ground up"

[@RotNside]

I really enjoy the car progression Example: I enjoy taking a level 1 stock car and putting it in multiplayer and seeing how good it does against everyone else. I enjoy leveling up 5-10 levels per race and adding upgrades to see the difference on the next race and repeat. After reaching level 25 I focus on tuning Some cars are not fun driving so I don’t drive them. I know I’m one of the very few people who enjoy the progression But I do enjoy it They need to fix the penalty system and or make a rank mode with stricter penalties 😊

[@JazzTechie]

There’s not a whole lot to look forward to after their statement the more I think about it. If they are going to be milquetoast and “we’re looking into it” and “some players are reporting….”, just smells of spineless corporate mediocrity. Not really setting any expectations, or taking ownership.

[@pubsapass1214]

The problem is that it took MONTHS for them to notice what all players found in 10 minutes ! This game looks like it's made by a totally blind team.

[@evilformerlys4704]

Months, they knew ahead of launch what was not working, they had beta testers and early players running the game and then lying about it. They knew that progression system was deliberately setup to increase user time in the game and nothing more. Majority of the issues were found immediately upon players connecting with others online. Vanishing cars, teleporting cars, care hovering or doing strange things to each other on the grid before the race starts. There's no way they didn't see all of those things at some point before it "went live". They're lying and hoping people stick around as they drip feed them lines of repairing the game and content which is basically stuff that was cut to boost player interest later on in cycles. These guys really think they're fooling people with this transparent mtx focus game. Game in a service is going to be hard to financially spend a lot on upfront, your guaranteed to lose for years to come unless you somehow hit like Fortnite and no driving game is going to do such a thing. They are killing their franchises with this service idea, it will not work.

[@willalba7083]

I always bought Forza, this time I played on gamepass 2-3 days and dropped it. I expected so much more and just got watered down FM7. The annoying part is that I waited for this game with high hopes.

[@SRS13Rastus]

You hit the nail on the head. Raising these issues on forza forums only seems to result in personal criticism instead of meaningful debate or countering the subject under discussion. My personal stance is diametrically opposed to my stance on AMS2. I love that game, the actions and chosen methodology Reiza has of involving players through paddock club testers, releasing updates when they are ready and not before, causes them to be greifed by those demanding dates and times. They cannot argue with the results, though, a few try incessantly to claim Reiza are set to abandon it in favour of working on GTR Revival in partnership with Ian Bells new company, also chosing to utterly ignore Renatos thread requesting opinions on future annual season passes (note the plural nature of his question). Why would they opt to abandon their passion project in favour of being under Ian Bells thumb and diverting all efforts to a game from which they'll receive at best, a portion of the sales income or a flat fee as consultants? This makes little to no business sense whilst a consultancy fee and good work for Bell could gain them a significant cash injection to secure many missing licenses for cars and tracks fans would love to see, plus they'll maybe end up with access and understanding of yet another game engine to potentially be used for their next title a few years from now. Maybe they'll stick with AMS2 as it's rating is now a whisker below ACC & AC @ 91.66%, 91.89% & and 92.55%, respectively. T10 stated they'll have news updates in 3 months' time, this is the wrong approach imo. They need to act now and involve gamers on both platforms and various hardware in the development process and testing, or they risk falling off the radar of all but the most ardent fans. That could well be the death knell for T10 as a studio, I could even see Motorsport being handed over to PGG in some form of rescue attempt, after all PGG was created by the team responsible for Race Driver Grid which took the BAFTA for best sports game from under the noses of Fifa, PES and Madden NFL.. If T10 are serious in their intent to save Forza they need to do more than pat disgruntled players on the head saying, "There, there! Don't worry, we're working on it, and we'll get back to you in 3 months with some news and future plans..." That's 6 MONTHS after launch, with Rennsport, AC2, and even GTR Revival on the horizon, or in beta testing right now, whilst AMS2 goes from strength to strength and with 2 of the highest rated Sims to choose from, who's gonna care about FM anymore? Same with arcade titles, with other options out there, FM risks becoming an irrelevance and a warning to developers to really start listening to their fanbase or face the consequences. Hell if Sony had their head screwed on and launched GT7 on PC Forza would be abandoned in a heartbeat! Consider this too, the original "gamer generation" has grown up and have kids or even grandkids. Who do they think these 2nd and 3rd generation gamers will turn to for advice and knowledge? Speilmongers after a fast buck? Or Their family members who've been there, done it, got the T-shirts, caps, and scarves plus the ability to wade through the corporate BS in order to teach them how to read between the lines of press releases promises and marketing lies? I know I'd want MY Kids to avoid the traps some devs use and tactics they'll employ to ensnare those without such knowledge...

[@jjay350]

Forums are full of people who seem to enjoy making personal attacks these days;.

[@SRS13Rastus]

@jjay350 Just like in YT chat too lol, Hell, I'll drown out fools in AMS2 forums, but with facts, not fiction or acid dreams.. They tend to shut up and skulk off in a sulk when battered with a wall of verifiable facts...

[@GregoryShtevensh]

It's just not worth trying to play lately. It never signs in, always disconnects, always forgets my settings, always crashes usually once upon trying to load and connect. Sim wash or whatever it's called - cars don't want to self correct, they literally want to over counter themselves. In Assetto Corsa I can save a spinning car, in FM though, the car starts out saved, and ends up spun

[@jstiggs2002]

As a solo player, horrible A.I. and the messed up penalty system ruined it for me.

[@Atisdel_Entertainment_Official]

I would say that forza shouldn't work with long time competitive players to fix their penalty issues because their lobbies are probably a lot cleaner than the average lobby. I think if T10 cared they'd team up with the casual player base to collect their data. But no, T10 will never do that because they always wanna half-ass anything they do so they can say that they "Adressed" the issue without ever putting in any in-depth efforts.

[@David-nu6kw]

Bring back the ability to race and search any class. Create a race in any class. What's it to you?

[@Jpilgrim30]

They should have two separate modes of play. One with something like the system they currently have for people who want to play at caRPG and an unlocked mode where people can drive and race whatever they want.

[@RAY_FILET]

Tbh, the lobbies have always been busy for me. I've played quite a bit. Like 20+ people.

[@maximiacovacci]

why u asking, they launced the biggest shit of the shits ever made, looks like a ripoff of an old motorsport done by a 6y/o kid

[@unklesuga1644]

They have been avoiding this conversation since F2 is when they implemented match making and still using it to this day. This system introduced dirty racing. On the original FM you had the choice to race in any lobby. If you hosted a lobby and was a good host your room was never empty. The kick feature was the arm of the law in the original, you would get called out for racing dirty and that would get you the boot. Once booted you get muted and when you joined a lobby again with any player from before you tell the host dirty racer you'd get kicked or leave. These features along with car clubs established FM communities and promoted clean racing so if you were a rammer you would have a hard time finding a lobby. With all that said Turn 10 won't acknowledge this is the root of the problem in this franchise. Now this installment has just compounded that elephant in the room significantly.

[@JallyTee]

Played this game on release, it was plain to see it was a failure from day one. With great options on pc like Assetto corsa, rfactor2, Ams2 no wonder its not played anymore.

[@aliosanlou4425]

Its a real bumer to see the MOST advanced Simrace game for PC Has become like this...

[@kyrylopaints]

I really enjoyed the multiplayer when this came out but what made me leave were the performance and stability issues. My framerate would degrade over time and tracks would sometimes become invisible making a race unfinishable or in worse cases making me crash or go off track, penalising me and degrading my safety rating. I would love to give it another go if it becomes stable this year

[@stephenmartin5766]

People forget that Forza 7 was also almost as bad with reviews as the new one but the they removed a huge amount of bad reviews and spamming empty 5 star reviews to boost Forza 7 from 2.7 stars to 4.5 stars overnight……Forza is dead basically, definitely in my eyes as someone who has played since FM2, it has lost its soul, freedom, and functionality and instead of making a good game even if it means going back to old ones and improving them they would rather just lie to their their buyers and ignore them and just improve graphics at the cost of everything else. 7 while bearable felt more like a remaster of 6 for the most part and the whole fraud of the ratings was the last straw for me, they can’t be trusted and apparently can’t make a good game anymore, the Forza Motorsport era appears to be over because I highly doubt they will make another game or change this one much, it’s stupid. T10 must be with EA now 😂

[@jjay350]

The homologation rules is what everyone hated about Forza 7.

[@tommyvercettygt]

I'm playing now Forza Motorsport 7 and i'm more than happy with it. It has a lot more cars and even more tracks with same graphics

[@apophisstr6719]

All they had to do was focus on the actual contents (track and cars) and community features like what they did back in FM 2-4 because those were what made the series stood out. Going in for a straight fight against GT in terms of graphics (by sacrificing just about anything else) will never bring them any success because PD is way ahead of just about anyone in that regard.

[@RaidenWithBiden]

I also hope there was a refund

[@waverly2468]

I got an X Box S a year ago and tried Forza. The graphics are beautiful but I don't understand how to play it. No YT videos that explain it very well either. I went back to playing racing games with different tracks on my Sony PSP.

[@fordgtguy]

I play it and I'm in full lobbies every night playing it. Therefore... people are playing it.

[@autogeek23]

I had my fiancée cancel the pre order because the early reviews. I honestly want a PS5 for GT7

[@leiferikson7052]

gt7 is just as bad its the same game pretty much both have good and bad

[@Alfalfa95555]

Turn10 have lied about pretty much everything... it CAN'T be a surprise for them at all that the game has failed miserably. Man the game doesn't even look the same as the trailers of the game with the “All in-game 4K footage” text watermark in these.

[@AnDrEw122100]

If you go back and watch videos of turn10 talking about this game before it came out it will make you sick . Just blatant lies , just awful .

[@ElNizzz]

Im a player of this videogame that 2023 best racing game award it doesn’t deserve, I think this Forza “is not the new thing” as they promises, its like FM7.5. I hate that still there are floating cars when they are in stock tires, not feels real like they promises until you get the Racing Tire Set. Another thing i hate is that real life hybrid KERS-ERS racing cars doesn’t support the technology, so they are simple handling and not the today’s future, far away from Assetto Corsa and even EA WRC game motor physics for example. Boring monotonus Halo type music to the menus. Still the same kind of wheels since the first FM, not wheel spacers or wide body kits. Not VR technology (where GT7 takes a big point for consoles game), and limited button mapped from console, not Thrustmaster SF1000 fully functional device for this game, so if you have it its a waste of money for enjoy it. Stickers system is still limited to avail the full car. And they forgot about at least some car leagues. FM is a sponsor of the 24h of LeMans, but it seems that they do not have the rights to some cars that we ordered, just as they did not develop the glorious Acura ARX-05 GTP and not the ARX-06 after two years of launch, I mean that the In-game cars are obsolete for at least 3 years (except for at least 1 2023 car per month). And when the IA difficult brakes its car before a highspeed curve or before it in not-online mode. Personally, I was disappointed, being loyal to the franchise since its first Forza Motrosport.

[@fil_lokka]

I've been a massive forza fan over the years, but the car progression system just made me turn it off, I raced with friends every Saturday different cars each week, this system demands too much game time that for me is best spent in other games

[@gerryarmstrong5654]

Graphics are crap, handling is crap, gameplay is crap, AI is crap. I paid full price for the most expensive version at launch, now uninstalled, will never play again nor buy any other title from T10. Far FAR better alternatives to spend my time on.

[@XboxStation-xh8cw]

You didn't buy anything. FM has by far the best handing. Graphics, despite issues, are great and the gameplay is addictive

[@andreasmoller9798]

@@XboxStation-xh8cwnot even close gt7 has better visuals, ac has better physics, their is nothing thats make the new fm stand out, fm is a complete disaster

[@rossjames1915]

Forza Motorsport been in decline for ages. Motorsport 3 and 4 were the best. Traded my copy in last week and now just play GT7 but tempted by ACC

[@ALmulllen]

this game is legendary corny, its the Nick Cannon of racing games

[@adSlim]

Forza devs (and to some extent EA WRC devs) are paying the price for their unfinished products. Did they think they could ask people 70€ for a beta and get people happy? I really hope this trend of beta released at AAA prices and then patched again and again will stop soon

[@XxBillyGoatNinjaxX]

I had a game breaking glitch where Id be driving in a straight line and the engine would start sputtering. Like the engine stopped delivering linear power and every lap would be slower and slower. Ended up deleting the game.

[@jordanedgeley6601]

You ran out of fuel 😂😂😂😂

[@minassianc]

For me it was the lack content and bad quality. I didnt even get to the upgrades, ai etc. Bad car models, bad engine sounds, meh graphics, no nordschleife. Any car guys left at turn10? I´d rather have FM4 on backwards compatibility, at least that one was fun.

[@wabbit234]

I will never pay anything remotely close to a full price for a game that I have to get constant permission from the publisher in order to play. 2023 was a year of complete and utter slop from AAA devs/publishers, particularly on PC, and I hope more people will just stop buying their trash until things improve.

[@billbino6560]

I’m still playing it with my friend when he comes over. AI are impaired while driving 😂

[@AlexanTheMan]

Sony has been given such a wide open door for PC

[@WhitesRacing]

We can only hope that they don't need another two years to fix the game.

[@SonicCommenter]

I haven't played this game. I have played GT7 and the biggest problem with that one is the fucked up roulette wheel-style gambling with the tickets.

[@Tacko14]

There’s another thing. Some people just want to race whatever car. Some people, me included, want to drive the cars of their youth, the heroes of their bedroom posters. Or at least the Sancho Panzas. We’re not interested in the latest Audi gt3, we want the Ford Capri 2.6RS. We want to relive our dreams from when we were six years old. It’s not like we’ll ever drive those cars for real, so this is it. GT doesn’t serve us completely, but FM doesn’t serve us at all. AC went a long way, especially with add on content, but that one needs the biggest of upgrades ever. AC2 is rumoured. If something could make me change platforms, that’s the one.

[@coraleestedile5061]

I stopped playing can’t stand dirty drivers . Came to race not play bumper cars

[@RenshoYT]

The thing that made me quit was how grindy it was to modify cars. I can deal with a bland campaign, im just there to race anyway. But getting home from work, thinking "it would be fun to build and race with x car tonight" and then realizing id have to spend some unreasonable amount of time just to unlock the parts for the car... nah ill use my evening some other way. Beyond that, Motorsport isnt a serious enough sim to satisfy the sim crowd (not to mention the fact that my sim rig is only set up to use VR, so I cant even use it for games that dont support it), while Horizon 5 remains an infinitely better casual experience

[@jjay350]

Yeah that's my problem as well, the game just doesn't respect your time. I realized I wasted more time trying to level up cars so I could modify them how I want than I did actually enjoying myself driving those cars.

[@herekongato]

Horizon 5 feels just like a new map for 4, but for me the new motorsport feels more lackluster compared to 7

[@Thiswayisyours]

I got annoyed at all the constant technical issues on PC so I never got into the game because of it. Spent like 10 hours troubleshooting and 5 hours of driving until I had enough. Think the game felt good with a wheel though.

[@dylanporter8105]

Another reason i wont play is because i can't, the game runs absolutely terribly on pc and mine isnt a bad spec, its extremely cpu reliant but even on a new gen i5 it wants to run the game at 1080p at 20 fps

[@ChipKaffmen]

There's no public Lobby hub.. is 65% a game

[@obbyb1]

Forza missed the boat. Motorsport was always good because it offered the casual player a good solid experience. The route they've taken this time is to take the casual experience and market it towards more serious players. Why would I ever play FM over ACC on xbox or GT7 on PS or iRacing on PC?

[@rainsilent]

It isn't marketed to serious players. The carXP system is a deliberate bottleneck on everyone that doesn't favor, nor is catered to, any player type.

[@billbino6560]

I’m infertile from the current Forza AI. The

[@xXScarhandXx]

The “caRPG” mechanic is the biggest problem. Forza isn’t an RPG, no one wants to grind 3 hours for car xp so they can have a competitive setup. Keep it single player and a totally separate save/garage, just separate the 2 modes (single player campaign/multipayer). I have never played the single player mode in any forza game as it doesn’t interest me racing against the computer, I play forza for the online challenge of racing against real people and testing myself against them.

[@MatthewCornish]

I’m glad I picked this up through Game Pass as it was so expensive otherwise. The AI and penalty system issues really turned me off the game so I’m waiting to hear they have been fixed before playing again. Graphics and sound I thought weren’t reflective of the hype. What I had been impressed with was being able to drive in cockpit with controller and have such good control of the car. Did expect to have to use my wheel but they did an amazing job on that front.

[@murkle1994]

I had horizon 5 on gamepass because I felt kind of unsure about whether or not I wanted to pay $60(at the time) for another horizon game. When I saw what a mess it was, especially in the first month. I was so glad I didn't spend money on it. Motorsport seems like much of the same thing but with features players hate added in too.

[@japanesecar1501]

Dude, this! we were Big time displeased with the game(gamepass). 10 months later\ disconnected- again? Yet FH4 was working. We were on gamepass mainly for FH, and it was 5 months of iffy to straight up broken, so I cancelled and it became history. Still remained semi-broken some 15 months after launch. @@murkle1994

[@MMTND]

Idk about xbox but even on descent pcs, this game still has huge lagging problem. Its obvious in most youtube reviews too

[@XOTICXPATRIATE]

What we can take away from this whole scenario is that forza had its run and now its over. Lets just try to remember all the good times the franchise gave us and let it peacefully fall into obscurity.

[@jjay350]

Good thing we can still play the past games in the series.

[@XOTICXPATRIATE]

this is true.@@jjay350

[@dthendrick1]

I think the Steam numbers are kinda irrelevant for an Xbox first-party gamepass game optimized for console. However, I would love to see the Xbox players numbers. I'm a Forza "fanboy", I've played every single Forza Motorsport and Horizon, I've also 100% several games from both series, but even this game has lost me. I desperately want Forza to succeed, I continued to play this game a month or so after launch, but after buying a PS5 and GT7, I've dropped Forza altogether. I'm just curious how many diehard Forza fans have lost interest in this game, and the die hards are not playing on Steam. I want this game to make a comeback, but in its current state it will take 2-3 years of work to get this game in the state it should have launched in, and I don't know if it can survive that long of even guys like me dropped the game. Sad days for Forza Motorsport fans.

[@ScottAhearnShipbuilder]

It's definitely not a good way to measure what the actual player count is, but comparing its steam numbers with FH5's Steam numbers does tell you something. That's an XBox first-party gamepass game optimized for console too, and despite being years old and supposedly "dead" it's absolutely trouncing FM's player count.

[@dthendrick1]

@@ScottAhearnShipbuilder Fair enough, but I still want to see the Xbox app and Xbox console player numbers, Steam just isn't enough info, even in comparison to FH5. I'm not saying the game is doing good. Its definitely not, I just don't really care for the Steam numbers for this game, not enough data to correctly determine the player base for FM2023.

[@Delimon007]

If the steam numbers are dropping, that should give you the logical conclusion that even the regular numbers on the xbox are dropping as well. That should be kinda obvious.

[@dthendrick1]

@@Delimon007 obviously, but I want to see the Xbox numbers to accurately see how bad the game is actually doing. Players are dropping across the board, I completely understand that, I want to know if the game is dead, and we can't know that unless we see the numbers from the platform 90% of players play the game on.

[@ScottAhearnShipbuilder]

It's probably more damning on steam, since every dropped player is someone who spent at least $70 on the game and therefore has a lot of reason to extract some fun out of it. @@Delimon007

[@reezySZN]

Is using the Steam charts valid for a game that was primarily being played on Game Pass? Not saying it’s a popular game or anything, but I think *most* of the people playing it aren’t playing it on Steam.

[@jarigustafsson7620]

Average only carriers to certain distance.

[@DoneDidDirty]

Fun when it works, but constant disconnects and invisible track make the game pretty much unplayable.

[@casefc3s]

will T10 finally suffer the consequences of ignoring their fanbase for over a decade? that'd be grand, as long as they're able to recover and actually improve. I'd love to see FM come back, properly, and ditch whatever execs are making these horrible calls.

[@Sevetamryn]

Playing since FM3. Defended FM2023 ... however, i was a console player only. .. Last Nov. i got a "gamable" PC and tested a couple of different things. A couple of days ago i came back to FM. And wow, what is it bad compared to what i have done over the last couple of weeks. To mention, i like online racing - i'm not interested in car collecting and tuning.

[@merginator]

All of us are tired of the promises made and under delivering.