What the Post Office scandal tells us | James O'Brien - The Whole Show

This is a catch-up version of James O'Brien's live, daily show on LBC Radio from the 10th of January 2024.
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[@stephenhall9251]

When are the senior management at the Post Office going to be prosecuted for Perverting the Course of Justice? 😡

[@Mikados_Advark12]

I was asked to investigate a case in 2001 and the Post Office would not allow any investigation into Horizon- it should have been a straightforward forensic accounting exercise - they refused it.

[@Astonman]

The rage across the country about this scandal speaks volumes. The people have had enough of the lies and corruption with our politics and large organisations. We’ve had enough. If no one is made accountable in serious terms.prison time. Then the people should take to the streets in protest. Peacefully but a hard push back against the abuse of power. I also strongly feel that each post master accused should receive a sum of 1 million pounds minimum. £75000 is an insult. These people should in some way be able to retire comfortably. It’s a small splash in the world of phone number figures. If was America they would be getting millions in compensation. We’ve all had enough of this bs.

[@adamgrimsley2900]

And the government did very little... Until ITV... Doesn't that tell you everything you need to know

[@Stuntman707]

The lessons are; 1. Failure should not be rewarded. 2. Liability should apply to individuals within companies not shielded behind a corporate entity. 3. Convictions should only ever be made by a separate entity to those in power. 4. The court should not be inaccessible to those who can’t afford it.

[@instancesofawol7968]

Never stop james, keep making these people accountable. keep the pressure on !

[@mariewhatley455]

I ve learnt that nothing changes out of this story. Little people are pooped on left, right and centre. We are still in a middle age society where there are masters and servants.

[@denisesf5]

Thanks James! Ready to hear some Truth Bombs! Cheers from 🇨🇦

[@jeffsimon9594]

Better find another channel then!

[@anonitachi7488]

What does it tell you? 'This is Britain/England' The wealthy and the Tax paying peasants.

[@billhamilton7066]

So true

[@bten-pow2095]

Just look at these people who occupy positions of prominence

[@user-fw2pp3wm2k]

Let’s have a docu drama about just how parliament works, the lobbying, being bought by corporations, the fact you can claim heating for your horses, while people can’t hear there homes or feed there kids

[@bexproctor360]

James thank you so much for keeping my sane ! Your by far one of the most intelligent, articulate and fariest public figures ! ....on this subject, jeez ya really cant make this stuff up ! I think we could just pay , i Dunno monkeys, pigeons to do a better job ( apologies to offened monkeys and pigeons )

[@monkeymagic4555]

This is quite clearly why the Royal Mail was sold (which should never have happened under any terms) they knew fully well what was coming and the sale of the Royal Mail was to compensate/partly compensate for the INSANELY huge compensation packages that will be forthcoming...And here's the thing so why were the convictions not quashed back then??...Obviously they hoped the issue would go away and they would not have to pay anything or very little!

[@simonrobinson6635]

Post Office is still owned by the government , Royal Mail was sold, still shouldn’t have been though

[@monkeymagic4555]

@@simonrobinson6635 Point being it's still exactly why the royal mail was sold off!

[@TheTartanSpartans]

Adam Crozier anyone?

[@lesleyburgon]

You don't exaggerate, you state things as they are. Spot on and brilliant as always. More like this please!

[@gent3284]

i've read today an article at Metro printed newspaper that post office "people", as rightfully mentioned by James, contacted ITV to change the nature of the documentary in favour of post office managers. this is the country we live in folks

[@poneill65]

Don't push Sunak too hard about Fujitsu contracts,... he'll take that as license to transfer them to Infosys!

[@TheLucanicLord]

Infosys will do the needful. Revert if you have one doubt about the same.

[@poneill65]

@@TheLucanicLord I'd give those fridge magnets of yours another toss, maybe they'll come up with something slightly less nonsensical.

[@Beerded69]

Really like your in depth knowledge of these issues.

[@steve-vc3wl]

James, love your stuff, I really should call in one day,, I'm hoping one day we will actually get a government that will look out for its electorate, it is a dream, but like almost all dreams you wake up and reality kicks in.

[@steveshanyaski5076]

It’s heartbreaking and enraging to hear just these three stories, and there’s several hundreds of lives ruined by this vile abuse of power from Post Office management. I hope those to blame get to feel the persecution and imprisonment these innocent people endured.

[@walliskidd5085]

If you think previous software to be infallible, then wait till Ai comes along which has no understanding of lying/moral right or wrong. MP's need to accelerate the law making in this field.

[@margaretalice6343]

Where does UK go from here. We are as corrupt with current government as they go 🤦‍♀️. With the current government wildly trying to push ludicrous bills through parliament. This has gotta end. And end asap

[@kevinsyd2012]

Don't forget that this PO scandal all happened under a Blaire Labour government, with Postmasters prosecuted long before Cameron came to power.

[@christinegivens9048]

I love James. The only presenter I can listen to for hours. Calm. Balanced. Great voice. Informed. Intelligent. Empathetic. Wish he’d run for office.

[@Jon-hh3gz]

They're all being a little quiet at PMQs other than being generally dismayed. Was only the SNP that said anything useful on the matter. A public inquiry is no means to escape scrutiny.

[@leikfroakies]

Tbf, the SNP were using it for cheap partisan point scoring despite the fact that Fujitsu have been awarded Scottish government contracts by the SNP since the scandal was known

[@angr3819]

Thank you.

[@andrewstevenson118]

John Douglas, ex-FBI and co-author of "Mindhunter" and other books, said that you can tell a lot about a man's attitudes towards women by how he talks about his mother and sisters. If he respects them, he likely respects all/most women. If he talks about them in derogatory ways like [insert various words] then beware. I don't have daughters, but if I did I would pay close attention to how any boyfriends talked about their own female relatives.

[@missk9950]

This is 100% true and I always say this to fellow girlfriends etc

[@isbestlizard]

You know the entire Dutch government resigned when they had a similar scandal?

[@anonitachi7488]

And Iceland jailed their crooked politicians after the Sunak-induced 2008 crash.

[@margaretalice6343]

Perhaps the Dutch have integrity. All the British public are in no doubt the current government are just attempting to protect themselves as individuals. They couldn’t give a monkeys about the uk public tbh

[@herdsire90210]

No they fled and the multiple situations are still not resolved. They got themselves an international job. EU, UN, Nato etc etc.

[@pew32]

I wonder how many shares some mps have In Fujitsu 🙄

[@daydays12]

indeed

[@Contraster671]

I implemented the original very large scale enterprise wide system in the UK followed by many after that. The rigour that goes into this is far reaching, and the decision to put anything in that’s faulty is purposeful. It’s a positive decision because it would be known by many in an organisation at the time and afterwards that theirs a problem. Secondly the test system is maintained in a dedicated environment. For the size of the post office system that would have been a massive amount of computer space unless, someone decided not to buy that space. People within the post office took these decisions and they should be in prison for corporate manslaughter.

[@rayglenister9799]

The word Democracy has lost it's meaning. The UK is more Autocratic by having a Monarchy, Aristocrats and a class system that will always supress the working people. Their credo: Devide and Rule.

[@matthewwells3865]

What lessons we haven’t learned is that what happened to innocent before being proven guilty? and watch them walk away Scott free, different rules for them than is the little man . One rule for the rich and one for us.

[@carolspencer6915]

My daughter can't/won't utilise services within NHS she so desperately needs, for alcohol dependency. Due to how she has witnessed me (her mum) being treated over many many years as a Mental health addiction nurse. Corporate bullying endemic, witnessed and current survivor of. And obviously patient care massively questionable in my very opinion. Etc etc. Nobody care's, brand new Lead Nurse, stated to me few days previous, your daughter can be referred to other geographical services 40 mins on train away! (Edinburgh) rather than RECOGNISING I have spent thirty months attempting to fight bullying in the workplace. Between NHS managers RCN and even local government. I'm fifty years young, and my daughter deserves so much more. Long story, very very short. Currently needing assistance to pen a resignation letter perhaps. Needing a new adventure while I continue to fight how despicable and vile my NHS Nurse leadership team is. After eighteen years as a nurse in the NHS I'm DONE. Me thinks. 💜

[@richardbierman9856]

I'm being steam rollerde by DWP for legitimately questioning their competence!

[@intervention.07]

Hence the desperation of the PO to keep the plaintiffs separate. They're ONE hope of parity lay in unity. The evidence for the deliberate criminality of the PO is to be found in their strategy of isolation

[@callum4796]

The ONLY reason the Tories are willing to try and fix the post office scandal is because it started under labour. They have no intention in fixing any of the problems they've caused themselves because it means acknowledging they are problems

[@sarangistudent8614]

Windrush, ppe scandal, grenfell, furlough fraud, pandemic preparedness/nursing home debacle and all those preventable deaths, partygate, water privatisation failing, even as far back as Hillsborough, all stuff caused or messed up by these nasty Tories, even the global financial crisis, Sunak and co mostly worked in the banks at the time and they caused the global crisis, NOT labour like they try to put it on. And let us not get started about the pain, hurt and damage caused by Brexit, that has destroyed lives in this country. Please make this Tory nightmare end.

[@mickreaddin4979]

Except it didn't start with Labour! The deal with Fujimitsu was was signed off in 1995-6, and it was described as dysfunctional in 1998 by the then post office minister. Fujimitsu pressured the then government by threatening legal action for breach of contract. In hindsight you could argue that the government should have called their bluff, but that's hindsight for you.

[@saraswatkin9226]

​@@mickreaddin4979 was that contact advertised?

[@mickreaddin4979]

@@saraswatkin9226 I don't know what you mean by "advertised" but it was recorded/noted.

[@kevinsyd2012]

@@mickreaddin4979 Blaire could have pulled out from the contract with Fujitsu, he was even advised to do so by Harriet Harman, but Blaire ignored all advice as usual.

[@allip4226]

It's ridiculous that the Tories are suddenly pretending to be concerned about this, having failed to do anything about it for 14 YEARS. General election now.

[@stuartparker6838]

It started under Tony liar

[@stuartparker6838]

The same Tony liar that started the privitasion of the nhs

[@allip4226]

​@@stuartparker6838More whataboutism and excuses from the rabid far-right. 14 YEARS. End of.

[@Noel-ji8nm]

​@@stuartparker6838Starmer turns out to be the man who, as DPP, prosecuted the entirely innocent sub post masters who were ruined many going to prison because of a computer malfunction in the upper reaches of the post office. One of the main reasons why it happened is that the labour leader, the unequivocal supporter of Netanyahu's Zionist Government, ordered their prosecution and many subsequently went to prison.

[@mickreaddin4979]

​@@stuartparker6838NO... it did not! The deal with Fujimitsu was done and dusted in 1995-6 by the Tory government, which Labour then inherited. Problems were pointed out in the commons by the then Labout post office minister, but Fujimitsu pressured the government to stick to the signed contract. Just a quick Google search would have shown you the history of this issue.

[@ragnardanneskjold7259]

It would be nice if someone would provide a brief breakdown about the Postal scandal for non-UK listeners.

[@normanhunter7]

It's tells us maybe its time to dust down the pitchforks

[@t2Steve1960]

re nationalise everything and run by society and not 'monied' elite

[@SouthernFriedCyanide]

My lesson would be: The truth always comes out, and the longer it takes to come out leads to more damage to those who have lied...so don't buy lying, and your reputation won't be dying

[@richf6111]

You didn’t know she was a vicar ? James …really …it was on the ITV drama…I’m guessing you watched it?

[@SqwarkParrotSpittingFeathers]

If there is a Sir, Lord or Lady preceding a name, take it, they may be dishonest.

[@glynsmith4590]

So much of our state controlled functions are computer based outsourced to Fujitsu and others, with recovery an impossibility! And much of this has taken place over the past 14 yrs in the war against the Nanny state!!!!

[@user-wq6sz7vt3w]

The media, LBC were very slow picking this up!

[@suzyqualcast6269]

Plod in our town used to be biggest nighttime visitors to a near village petrol garage where vids were rrentable, they would borrow the filthiest under the counter vhs issues. So folk would refer kids to coppers??

[@davidashton9580]

Tell it how it is, I love it😊

[@user-jz7hm2gy8x]

Doesn't a cut in tax revenue equate with a reduced budget for services?

[@mickreaddin4979]

How tax is spent is a political choice irrespective of the amount. Tories just love cutting public services.

[@user-jz7hm2gy8x]

@@mickreaddin4979 yes I agree, was trying to be subtle.

[@thodystack]

At 1-40 minutes into this it is interesting to note the Lindsey chap refer to Keir Starmer as 'Prime Minister'.

[@nickfletcher4132]

These injustices and crooks of the establishment will continue to believe they are above reproach and consequently the law until they are convicted and sent down to do prison time.

[@edwardferry8247]

Man who writes book entitled ‘How they broke Britain’ gets into nuances with lady caller 21.00 who correctly identifies the depth of corporate malfeasance destroying democratic processes. ‘It’s not quite as bad as you describe, he would have been shot if it was that bad’ Hmmm.

[@StratsRUs]

Bingo

[@user-ue9vq8qj7e]

James you should get a bigger mug for your cocoa😂 😂

[@sonicslm4844]

Actual accountability, democratic control of institutions, accountable representatives, standards in public life.

[@THE6uk]

He has shares in it thats why?

[@eds-egg]

It tells you that the people who insist something is Safe and Effective (in this case a computer system) can be woefully wrong.

[@jaydeeess1042]

This scandal highlights a systemic failure that is much more widespread than just in the Post Office. Our hierarchical society is not fit for the modern world. Industrial relations are simply dreadful. Other ways of running businesses are possible. Our way of constant conflict between a managerial class and workers is, to say the least, inefficient. We could learn from other countries, but, because of exceptionalism, we don't. The class system is at the root of it. Private education and elite universities perpetuate it. The electoral system, the Honours System and the House of Lords amplify it. The gulf between the haves and the have nots has become enormous. I grew up in the '50s and '60s when, following the 2nd World War, Britain was becoming more equal. That progress has been put into reverse, starting in the '70s and continuing till now. Instead of progressing into the 21st century, the U.K. is heading back towards the Victorian era. I despair for future generations.

[@markbullen5989]

Why is Fujitsu doing all our IT work. Do we not have any qualified folk to do the work. Or have we managed ourselves into a situation where all the skill has been managed away. Asking for a friend

[@robertwalker7924]

Farange..skidmark on the underpants of British politics 👌 🤣

[@colinstephenson5386]

All Governments have to carry some things that they just wish they’d go away , An intelligent one would only ignore the ones that they know can easily be chucked under the carpet , this conservative government seems to have something missing upstairs ?

[@user-xg6td3sc8w]

James it has emerged that the Post Office Security Team got bonuses for each convicted sub pistmaster or mistress

[@user-zk5rw2io5i]

We have learnt what we have always known Trust is not given it is bought and we’re there is pure evil there is no trust To take the trust of so many people and destroy lives to the point of no return is an in justice if no one goes to jail or the money is returned to them someone must pay for this greed

[@christinegivens9048]

PRODUCERS: please could you consider removing the alarming sound bites where you break for news on the live feed when producing these KZbin posts? That noise is so jarring and occurs twice in a row. Especially unsettling in the evening when I’m trying to chill out from a long day. Would be better to mark the breaks with a screen saver or something silent. Thanks so much for thinking about it.

[@doreensoutar5130]

There is always a third way.

[@wonderlocs7758]

NOTICE how james would never think of the windrush scandal as a British injustice because black suffering is always not the same as people of NO colour suffering, its a afterthought!

[@fer-de-lance536]

Beery flatulence😀😀😀

[@Astonman]

The Goverment has given other contracts to Fujitsu who sold them Horizon. What is this bs. Our money tax payers money.

[@josephclarke6770]

At least we know how many kids Starmer has though, eh Boris?

[@guy7088]

The curtains have been pulled back to reveal the wizard is not that great..

[@MaryMclare-sp6vx]

They all try and avoid taxi's james.

[@user-xg6td3sc8w]

Sunaks compensation offer is a drop in the ocean compared to what he has paid Fujitsu in contracts since the scandal first broke.

[@Tularis]

41:00 where is Matt Parks Smith? King of audio production....

[@powerline301]

The problem with children is, the UK & Ireland have so many instances and they know there will be no repercussions or incarceration.

[@DE-xt7jv]

But boris doesn’t even know how many children he has

[@anthonybyrne5641]

If you look in to this story, who knows what you might find lol

[@rafatony2804]

Hope.

[@fionawinderam5703]

Is Fujitsu not part of Sunaks wife's family business 🤔

[@tammersalem]

While the government creating a fund to repay those aggrieved is a step in the right direction - it's not nearly enough. This government is not addressing the fact that when there was an injustice - who will be held accountable? Is anyone from POL or Fujitsu going to be held liable or go to jail? Who will address the fact that these people's lives were ruined (this isn't just about an accounting error). And finally who were those government ministers in charge of POL at the time that should be named and shamed (and Nadhim Zahawi did get his few minutes of fame questioning the CEO of POL - what did he do after that to ensure a correction?). This injustice cannot just have money thrown at it - but a proper reckoning and true justice served.

[@kevinsyd2012]

The buck clearly stops with Tony Blaire as he was in power at the time, with Postmasters prosecuted long before Cameron came to government.

[@user-ue9vq8qj7e]

Couldnt make this Poo) Poo) up , scandalous .. like a fictional story unbelievable for the life of me can't fathom this out 😢

[@allancurrie9472]

Haha 80 percent of the print media , try 96

[@skipaiotter]

On the white coat with computers... Most of the time a computer is going to be correct with the calculations it has to do. The problem is the human error that can come about when it comes down to programming said processor to do said calculations. And on saying that, I'm old enough to remember in the 1990s when Intel released the Pentium CPU that they had the FDV bug, actual hardware bug that brought an incorrect result to a calculation. Which was division, eventually recall was done, costly to Intel to replace said CPU's with a fixed version. So 1993/1994 and cost Intel $500 million dollars (half a billion back then) in losses. I saw few drawn comics back in the day from Computer Shopper or other computer mags that told that you get what you put into a computer. If the user makes mistakes, then you're going to get an incorrect answer to said question. Barring hardware bugs, correct information goes in, correctly checked programming and calculations intact... You're going to get a correct answer. But humans make and build computers so there's going to be the human error equation that slips in from time to time. Something we know went wrong, it's what happened in some trying to cover up said mistake than owning up to it.

[@andrewstevenson118]

Well written. Thanks for taking the time.

[@TheLucanicLord]

It just looks like extremely poor programming and a total absence of QA and testing. I'd expect 2nd year students to do better.

[@annphillips1086]

I remember the Pentium bug (was in programming in those days) - something to do with rounding up decimal places? There was a meme doing the rounds that really made me laugh: "I am Pentium of the Borg. Division is futile. You will be approximated."

[@nothereandthereanywhere]

@@TheLucanicLord And so you know little about development and implementation of a software... You can do as much as you humanely can, but software is often developed by numerous people, managed by Product team, approved by QA's. Each of them is a human, each of them have limited time to deal with testing, checking and making sure everything goes as it intends. I'm not saying what has happened is expected, even it somehow was. It was built by humans. The cover up and complete disregard for potential bugs is unforgettable. And that is the tragedy of this whole story.

[@PuzzledlifeTV]

can we be justified in violent conduct against those in control when those in control have corrupted the law and legislation to the point of a politician can lie and get away with it when a nurse can't afford to get home after a nightshift and goes postal on gove out pretending to jog for the cameras? With a spoon? discuss...

[@colloquialsoliloquy6391]

Reckon this is the first time in history where right wingers say "yes this annoys the liberals ,but this time we are going to set aside that silliness and actually call for a Tory to be held accountable."

[@kevinsyd2012]

Don't forget that this all happened under a Blaire Labour government, with Postmasters prosecuted long before Cameron came to power.

[@Nosmo90]

It's been twenty-three years, but Lawrence Fox is once again stuck in a hole; albeit a financial one this time.

[@SoundSista222]

Dog bans don't work but I will not be sad to see fewer of them where I live that are in the hands of terrible owners who want a weapon dog for status

[@notbornagainbornright5046]

I want to hear about Palestinian's and Isreal

[@deancyrus1]

1:10:08 wow awesome mum

[@robertandrews5640]

SO HERE WE ARE O'BRIEN SHOWS HIS BIAS HE IS SOLD BODY AND SOUL TO THE WORSHIP OF STARMER

[@richf6111]

Great podcast James…but please don’t distract by saying there was a multicultural basis for the Post Office crimes. It was corporate greed and the links between those and mainstream media like you alluded too. Keep away or you will politicise it and not help the victims. I know you have producers and ground rules due to the nature of your political slant, but you have a conscience and you have demonstrated many times you are confident and intelligent to use it.

[@tiffiniwilliams9088]

No. No. Yes the issue at hand is very important. And, please be adults and properly address racism. That’s why they are done. Like why do y’all waste the time of ingratiated race to act like it doesn’t exist.

[@stevejones4275]

we all do taxavoidance we open pension plans or ISA. It's quite correct.

[@mickreaddin4979]

"We all do... " is that true, really?

[@terencespragg5708]

The absolute twisting going on in this show blaming the software company when the fault was found then covered up by the postoffice and the mp overseer not taking actions against the postoffice prosecutions that was in his powers to do so when so many cases showed something is not right. Do not lose sight on the real crime here and that is not the software fault but the cover-up. Shows the absolute byus going on here.

[@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095]

This sort of thing has gone on for decades. You didn't mention thalidomide, probably because it's before your time. {:o:O:}

[@georgethepatriot2785]

Mass immigration is not on the list . We were never asked nor voted for it. Divide and rule?

[@mickreaddin4979]

We don't have "mass" immigration by any measure.

[@anajinn]

Jimmy Savile

[@user-jz7hm2gy8x]

Interesting thoughts re computer not being wrong but ultimately computer programs that run computers are designed by humans therefore can be problematic

[@catkin54]

I never watch you as I don’t have 2 and a half hours spare….lcan you do 10 minute videos instead?

[@THE6uk]

Lol this man a sleep still

[@user-bt8cz9nv4x]

Why do you have such a big mug? And I ain’t talking about you!

[@Dynasty1818]

As usual, LBC listeners are wrong and blame the Tories. This all happened under Labour.

[@christopherwhittaker2620]

I love your program James, I really do but seems like you are also now guilty of jumping on a bandwagon that should’ve been jumped on a long time ago. How have you not picked up on the story earlier? How ? Seems you’re as guilty as the politicians and all the other media outlets who have not bothered with this story until ITV made a drama about it and now all the indignation, unbelievable. At which point did your finger come out regarding the story James?

[@eds-egg]

James always trusts the "experts".

[@christopherwhittaker2620]

@@eds-egg I love his program but in this case he’s doing what all the other media and news are doing by jumping in a bandwagon. Where was he earlier when the people suffering needed a voice.

[@THE6uk]

Elon musk just come here to push x

[@equaliser2265]

Iraq war

[@nadeembukhshi]

🇯🇴🇯🇴🇯🇴🇯🇴🇯🇴💯🇯🇴🇯🇴