What We Know Warframe Lore - Jade Shadows [SPOILERS]

Mostly a re-tread / explanation of the Jade Shadows quest lore with a fair deal of speculation as much of the specifics are left to interpretation.
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[@StallordD]

Another commenter pointed out the Low Guardian badge on Stalker's chest in the intro, which would indicate Jade did indeed save Stalker shortly after the slaughter at the Terminus, so that gives a bit more clarity to that timeline of events at least. Also, I changed something with the video encoding that seems to have really screwed up the quality when it uploaded to KZbin. Hopefully it isn't too noticeable, but I'm definitely going to undo that change in the future.

[@CYI3ERPUNK]

ya it seems pretty clear that stalky and jade were both given the umbra treatment relatively early on , with stalky kept as bodyguard and jade used as executioner , neither being controlled via tenno transference , but both being essentially 'ideal' functional warframes/biodrones ; then later upon the tenno rebellion , jade protects stalky from the tenno , and later falls ill , giving stalky multiple reasons to hate the tenno ; always like ur vids dood =]

[@br0sine]

4:39 Maybe the Acolytes? I hope DE didn't forget about them...

[@michaelnazario8019]

I think you are wrong because some of them we don't know anything about jade

[@slenderminion2229]

Not sure when it showed up, but Jade has a grave next to Teshin that tells more of her story. She and Stalker were indeed warframe-ified because of her pregnancy being discovered and Ballas deliberately ensured that Jade would forever carry their child without being able to give birth, taunting her that she would "mother only ashes and oblivion" as the executioner for the Seven. Stalker served the Orokin after becoming the Stalker because Ballas dangled the possibility of being reunited with Jade in front of him. This is likely why the Stalker hated the Tenno so much: Not because they destroyed the Orokin specifically, but because they ruined his only hope of seeing Jade again. When the day of reckoning came and the Tenno slaughtered the Orokin, Jade saw Stalker and recognized him as her beloved Sorren because he wore his badge, but he did not recognize her. The reason why she remained seemingly dormant under Stalker's protection is because Ballas slipped up by telling her that her pregnancy could only progress if she laid perfectly still and fed her child with all of her strength for hundreds, maybe thousands of years. This was meant to break her spirit, but it only gave her hope. He definitely wasn't counting on her doing exactly that, or that it would actually work.

[@youraveragechroma2139]

I have an Itching feeling that Jade’s death was by Ballas’ design. A warframe power to die to childbirth and to leave a child of impossibility as a symbol of the tragedy sounds so much like something Ballas would do out of spite for having Margulis taken by the Jade light for being a mother.

[@vladyvhv9579]

I wouldn't put much of anything past that twisted SOB. Here's hoping we manage to master Etrernalism travel and go back in time and erase him from history. Kill Ballis, save every universe...

[@jacobosaldarriaga4820]

That makes so much sense, god damn Ballas is such an inhumane troll.

[@Marin117.]

How would he know though? This is the first recorded frame to be pregnant.. He was prob very curious to see what would happen but in my head his main idea was that Jade would forever feel the pains of pregnancy without being able to actually give birth. Kinda like Umbra reliving his son's death over and over.

[@ovencake523]

You pretty much guessed it Wiki: "After completing Jade Shadows, an assembly of seven of Jade's feathers will appear near Teshin in any Relay, in front of the tombstones." Each feather has an entry from Jade's memory. Here's the last one: "MEMORY FEATHER 07 URANUS. TOMB. THE SENTIENT. He could not have known it, but in taunting me, Ballas gave me hope. "There is plentiful strength within you - but only to keep you preserved as you are now. Your child, alas, will never grow. Even if you fed it with all the strength in your body! Perhaps if you lay lifeless for a year, the child would twitch a little. A century and its heart might begin to beat. A thousand years, and who knows? Perhaps you might feel a kick." And so, I lie here. Stubborn as the day is long, as my father used to say. I promised that you would live, little one. I will keep that promise. With your father watching over us, I will give you the gift of myself. And one day, these metal fingers of mine will dip in slippery paint and draw a smiley sun and a house and a dog, and all of us together, and I will hear you laugh." I'm not crying you're crying. Go read the rest of them warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Jade#:~:text=%E2%96%BE-,Jade%27s%20Promise,-After%20completing%20Jade

[@euclxd8033]

Imagine instead of just starting the quest, we had to unlock it by almost defeating the stalker, only to be rescued by Jade. Which then unlocks the quest

[@StallordD]

I have a suspicion that was an original draft, but they may have cut that intro for time.

[@rickvanboberson]

Apparently she’s been unconscious in his lair all these years so that couldn’t have happened. Narratively this quest is so bad

[@theexurian1079]

@@rickvanboberson I mean, but that's what we got. If they went with that start of the quest lore changes.

[@rickvanboberson]

@@theexurian1079 what?

[@Moerdyr]

​@@rickvanbobersonit was a flashback. Who knows from when.

[@slenderminion2229]

Here's something interesting to consider. During the Second Dream, killing the Tenno was clearly his goal. It wasn't the Warframe he was after, it was the actual Operator controlling it. He plunged his blade into the Warframe's chest at the end of the quest, but he never stopped looking at the Tenno while doing it. They had his full attention. However, he was clearly caught off-guard when he saw that the Operators were children all along. It not only brought up questions about his own nature, but he seemed hesitant to actually kill the Tenno later on. Jade Shadows reveals that the Stalker can infiltrate our Orbiter and attack us directly any time he wants, but doesn't. It's almost as if he was intentionally limiting himself to only hunting Warframes instead of the people he now knows are actually in control. He knows that killing the Warframes is just an inconvenience at best. Keeping that in mind and considering how protective he is of his own child, it seems to me that even with all of his fragmented memories and hate-filled heart, Stalker is unwilling to truly murder a child just to get his vengeance.

[@dwrdwlsn5]

Even the worst can be redeemed by love, at least in fiction

[@lalalalalalalalalala-js5xl]

​@@dwrdwlsn5he probably is only the worst because of love

[@HinduKhajiit]

I personally think Jade saved Stalker during the slaughter at the Terminus, the Tenno probably respected her wishes and did not kill Stalker back then, and Jade had been with him ever since. I also believe perhaps Jade, like Hunhow, wanted Stalker to make amends and be friends with the Tenno, since she knew she won't be alive and would want Stalker to not be alone.

[@StallordD]

It does seem like that's a better time placement for her saving him. Another commenter pointed out he was wearing the low guardian badge in the intro, so it would probably mean it was around that time.

[@yokai1235]

i dont think it was to make friends but more like they are the only solution as it was obvious that she was stuck with a baby that she cant birth

[@HinduKhajiit]

@@yokai1235 Yes but Jade was in a unique position, she was Warframe (and most likely allied to the Tenno, either due to the hatred of Orokin or due to their shared kinship) and at the same time she was Stalker's wife. Both of them are family to her in some way, and she's the common thread between tne I think it would be natural for her to desire that the 2 parts of her family would unite.

[@HinduKhajiit]

@@StallordD It might also explain his initial hesitation at killing the Operator when they first appeared out of the golden pod on Lua, during the 'Second Dream', perhaps due to Jade's pregnancy it made it difficult for him to kill a child, hence why Hunhow said his hatred is weak, and had to convince him extra hard to try and kill the Operator.

[@zenerstorm95]

Fun fact: If the Stalker spawns on you in a mission and you're playing as Jade, he'll simply say "Never." and leave immediately while dropping his loot.

[@bedaktaburbeku8870]

u want me to dismember my wife's body tenno? her baby is in my hand !

[@DjayPaniora]

Well that would make my missions more faster thanks

[@gerreycynepheld]

child support

[@redirmer760]

I like how despite the revolutionary technologies, the sci-fi themes, digital sentientness that the game's universe has, it seems like the only thing that the whole entirety of warframe is centered around of are love, family, fighting for the right to live, closure, and the dangers of indifference.

[@Whistvomithasreturned]

Time and time again, people will make the same mistakes.

[@nonidentifie5169]

And once again, we end as we began.

[@Tyme_Whyrlwynd]

I have a fun way of describing Warframe. It's *de jure* sci-fi, but it's *de facto* fantasy. Many of the themes in Warframes are more along the lines of a fantasy story, while most of Warframe has a sci-fi aesthetic.

[@4564568b]

I went to read Jade's tomb stone in relay, and aside from the heart warming motherly love within, it gave some really interesting information. Apparently, Jade was "aware" this whole time. She speaks about Ballas evil deed, how she won't let hatred consume her, how she save Stalker during the slaughter, and how she *comfort the Tenno that's piloting her.* This change so much about how we know about the frames. It turns out, at least the original one, can in fact be fully sentience.

[@bluegem8582]

There's also the possiblity he specifically picked a strain that wouldnt destroy their minds with insanity, purely to torture them with, or at least with Sorren make him a loyal assassin for him under the guise of maybe, one day in far, distant future, letting him see Jade again (which he never would've done, but, it was a situation where cling to impossible hope or fall into despair)

[@FredericGall-k5v]

Dante’s lore also refers to him as a unique individual, as do many frames with Levarian entries, Mirage is the first to hint at this iirc.

[@4zureSapphire]

If I do recall, The Stalker was there when the Orokin was betrayed by the Tenno. Even though he was a low rank protector, he failed to do what was tasked to him and sought revenge against the Tenno for killing his masters in a quest for revenge. Either it was from a devstream or an update page.

[@yokai1235]

is in his bio on the codex a

[@sitchreapotere1073]

Nope, that's explicitely what his Codex entry says - which he himself wrote. So him hating us still absolutely fits since he's an Orokin loyalist still to this day.

[@bloodfest8510]

​@@sitchreapotere1073 his hate is beginning to faulter and hunhow is proof of this

[@drvinylscratch1936]

The idea about the child being a key to beating the indifference is cool. Makes me think those leams about roamncing in 1999 make sense

[@youtubeisnotsocialmedia]

I hope it turns out that Sorren used trasferrence to become the Warframe that would be known as Stalker to us. It's very interesting to see non-Tenno utilizing a technique that is second nature to us, and suffering unique consequences from the strain it puts on normal people. It would help make his character more tragic, the dissolution of "Sorren" into "the Stalker".

[@StallordD]

I agree, expanding on such a cool idea that was introduced in Silver Grove would be great.

[@benadrylcumbersplatch6448]

I think it is far more likely he shot up some Helminth into his veins, seeing as not only was that the way Jade was made a Warframe, but also Transference was not entirely unique to the Tenno, since both the Orowyrms and Golden Maws are fitted with transference bolts for the Orokin to control them. The skill that is unique to the Tenno is being able to use transference without being tethered to a pod, so it would stand to reason if Stalker was using transference, then his physical body must be in a pod somewhere, which does not bode well for someone who does not enjoy the benefits of Tenno void immortality, and has been around since the fall of the empire...

[@johnpayne7873]

@@benadrylcumbersplatch6448 Possible, but I’d bet that the Orokin needed teams of bio technicians so make sure the procedure was successful.

[@vladyvhv9579]

@@benadrylcumbersplatch6448Aren't Orowyrms just a part of duviri? Just basically dragons from a child's story?

[@benadrylcumbersplatch6448]

@@vladyvhv9579 the ones we possess in game? Yes, but they are mental reconstructions from Dominus Thrax's memory of the original Orokin constructs. You can occasionally see the original Orowyrms wandering the void if you look at the void gates in Deimos for long enough, they are the classic Orokin white and gold, not brightly colored like the ones in Duviri.

[@Geminanvaju]

With regards to what Jade's rank within the Orokin Empire might have been prior to her becoming a Warframe, a lot for the dialogue by Parvos during the ascension missions has led me to conclude that Jade might have been the one who discovered or created the Jade Light. So, she was either an Archimedean, or straight up an Executor. Needless to say, she was well above Sorren's rank. Also, with regards to what their fate ended up being, I do have some thoughts on it. Mainly, I don't think their fates were the exact same. Jade was most definitely turned directly into a Warframe via the helminth, and managed to retain her humanity by holding on to a powerful memory, much like Umbra. For Sorren, however, I don't think that was the case. The reason why I believe that is quite simple: the Stalker can speak. And we know from Loid that Ballas designed every one of his Warframes to not be able to speak. They were able to scream, roar, and howl. But never speak. Even Jade and Umbra, Warframes that were made almost exclusively for experimentation and torture purposes, also followed that same design philosophy. The only times we actually hear a Warframe "speak" is when they are being transference operated, and their operator is talking through them. And so, I believe that Sorren wasn't directly turned into a Warframe, but rather, had his mind transferred into one, permanently. With his old body being either destroyed immediately after, or just wasting away over time.

[@yokai1235]

them is definitely a archimedean as there is only 7 executors and they are the highest rank on orokin society

[@s1lence_tiramisu2005]

@@yokai1235 by the glory of the seven, yadayada

[@DyingDarkStar]

Yeah, years ago, i had the same thought for the stalker

[@johnpayne7873]

Strong case, but I bet the Orokin knew Sorren was the father from simply doing a paternity test and having a system wide genomic bank.

[@Geminanvaju]

@@johnpayne7873 Yeah, the Orokin definitely knew he was the father.

[@cross5574]

"Dax; the elite immortal soldiers augmented with biological and cybernetic enchantments that granted them unparalleled strength." *Shows clip of Dax soldiers getting absolutely clapped*

[@StallordD]

Hey they're immortal, not invincible. Tenno are just built different.

[@andrewhoff8782]

Built infested.

[@ChristopherSadlowski]

Immortal* *Terms and conditions apply.

[@thewarriorcat3271]

Honestly, for the elite guard of the Orokin, we do see them getting beaten quite badly a lot of the time Gauss Leverian, that one/two codex entries during the grineer rebellion, Ancient Healer codex,

[@kaladrios]

@@thewarriorcat3271 To be fair, we don't know how many battles they have been in, so the percentage of losses might still be low

[@gailengigabyte6221]

One thing to note is that, during the quest, Ordis mentioned that Jade's records were essentially redacted, indicating that the elite wanted to make extra sure that the affair was dead and buried, as well as to keep their mobile Jade Light executioner under wraps. That would also explain why we get question marks when Stalker messages us after each assassination mission (as he might of had the same info treatment), and would explain why Jade was considered the boogie woman of the empire, by Granum's own words.

[@youraveragechroma2139]

So, this is another example that warframe powers can change based on trauma dealt to it. Valkyr to the torture of Alad V’s testing, Dante morphing with a grimoire, Revenant in the sentient lake, and now either Sorren gaining this pseudo exalted blade or the child being born giving this result. Maybe this is what the Mirage prime trailer meant by Mirage influencing Ballas’ work.

[@rickvanboberson]

It seems like he gets his exhalted blade from the last vestiges of jades power leaving her when she dies? God narratively this quest was so bad

[@youraveragechroma2139]

@@rickvanboberson​​⁠I wouldn’t think so. Stalker keeps his green emissive color and enlightened Hate in the Operation and as he hunts you after. And as for abilities just showing up out of nowhere? That’s literally how the void works and how it’s been in the narrative. Our operator change powersets by schools and learning. The focus schools are Mentalities and Ways of Thinking. From captain Vor believing in the power of the void to our Drifter taking control of Duviri, this is how the world and story works. I think it just feels jarring because it happens so quick for the sake of telling a story with it being chronologically the latest quest as the assumption that you should expect this.

[@Raikeran]

​@@rickvanboberson what makes you say that? just curious

[@rickvanboberson]

@@Raikeran the way the energy serges from jade to the baby and then from the baby to stalker

[@youraveragechroma2139]

@@rickvanboberson Narratively, this seems like every thing we’ve seen before just not spaced out. Taking control of Duviri after experiencing grief, the caress at the end of whisper in the walls, every void power related thing in the War Within. The void works off of emotions and so emotional climaxes results in void changing to favor.

[@Havok91]

I don't know exactly WHEN Jade rescued Sorren, but I suspect she's been in his care for quite some time, seeing as he still wears the Low Guardian symbol when she rescued him. That being said, they could have been separated after and only reunited by Jade's maternal instinct.

[@StallordD]

Ooh, good catch! I completely missed the emblem on his chest. I had suspicions that was the case with how Hunhow described her saving Stalker over any of the Orokin, but I think that confirms she saved him shortly after the slaughter. Though that does introduce some other weirdness, but oh well.

[@Havok91]

@@StallordD mayhap. You really sold me on the infested madness and trauma distorting their memories, leaving her as the "unknown slaughterer" as Hunhow put it.

[@RapTapTap69]

I personally think that it was during the tenno uprising and stalker has been caring for her dutifully since then

[@dethberri]

BABE WAKE UP, STALLORD POSTED

[@KategariYami]

My interpretation of the Stalkers Motives is that he's still very conflicted with his feelings towards the Tenno. Including the Kiddo. But he's not conflicted with The Drifter. And that post New War, the Stalker is still in regular communication with HunHow. HunHow I feel has reconciled with the Tenno through his acceptance of the Drifter, who for all intents and purposes are one and the same. After all, it is through the efforts of the Drifter and to varying extents the Operator, that Lotus is rescued and revived to essentially full power. We brought his daughter back. So HunHow may have helped in convincing Soren here to go easy on the Tenno. Stalker isn't 100% there, and will continue to hunt us regularly, but at least he's now (after a final push) looking to us for help... And for the Operator - considering we can in-game swap between Tenno and Drifter at will, I feel like when we're in the chair we may have regular communication with our other self. So the Drifter may have helped convince the Operator that overall, the Stalker isn't someone to be immediately armed against. That we can give him a chance should he come to us not for battle, but for aid. I dunno - this is just how I feel about what's happened.

[@valerianos8635]

Grandpa Hunhow finnaly accepting the Tenno confirmed? One a more serious note i would love to see Hunhow and Lotus finnaly comeing together. (idk how that would work with the choice we have at the end of New War). But i think they would ignore it and go with the Lotus choice as canon instead of Natah or Margulis. Or make him more happy or sad depending on the choice we made.

[@KategariYami]

​@@valerianos8635 On this, I think if DE don't want to do too many branching voice lines, it could be as straightfoward as 1 or 2 responses that would be different depending on your choice. Should (in my case) Margulis find herself in front of Hunhow, she would proclaim herself as Marge (or Lotus or Natah) and perhaps later on if Hunhow asks how she feels about him, Margulis might just say she is no longer a part of him, Lotus would say she's wary of him should he turn against us one day, and Natah may call him father once again. But unless DE wants to go full gungho on the Choose Your Own Adventure (which they so far haven't for the most part), this may be the extent of it.

[@leenara4886]

on the topic of the timeline of when jade and stalker come into contact, ordis mentions shes been missing since the orokin slaughter, meaning shes been with stalker since then and the entire time weve known him and not by some chance encounter from him hunting tenno

[@johnpayne7873]

I think you are spot on that the framechild will play a pivotal part in the “Last War” - the one with the Indifference, perhaps as a messianic figure, either as the conciliator with Sirius or the denouncer as Orion. An interesting game mechanic would be which one the player uses in that conflict depended on which name was given (and you have to grind the other to get it).

[@BlackjackMKV]

As a quick fun fact, Ordis actually has special dialogue when you go to talk to him in Larunda Relay as Jade. Some of the quotes, such as "Can the Operator feel what Jade is feeling? Ordis hopes she is happy." would imply that, when we rebuild her, she's still the same frame. Stalker also refuses to fight you if you play her, simply kneeling back down and vanishing while leaving his drops behind rather than actually dueling you like usual. It's also worth noting that we see a similar scenario with Excalibur Umbra, where, when rebuilt, it's not a copy or a close look-alike, but rather the original frame even though it was made from scratch. Not sure what all this would implicate, but it is cool that Jade is probably doing fine. Just had to put her back together first. :)

[@StallordD]

Ordis has another line though where he says something along the lines of "Ordis knows this Jade is not the same Jade, but Ordis is still happy to see her" which I read as implying the opposite unfortunately. It's a bit murky with what frames are rebuilt and what are copied. So far it does seem like Umbra is probably the only one directly rebuilt, while others are all copies.

[@BlackjackMKV]

@@StallordD True, but one could also take it the other direction as a statement of "I know this body isn't the same, but the mind is". Which, given we rebuild the body but use her remains and power to create it, seems more likely to me personally. Admittedly though, I also just want to see her have a happy ending, so that might be partially coloring my interpretation. lol

[@punkghostsamurai]

He has returned!!!!

[@koboldman999]

Low guardian is also referring to the fact that a lot of the tenno differ from the tip of the spear, also known, as the prime frames, which were the pride and joy of the orokin military at the time. The person who talks about primes the most, Varzia refers to normal warframes as the low guardians.

[@spaz_taz4910]

So mentioning madness brought about by infestation but i been kind of digging through lore and had a thought, What if the infection never really brought madness in warframes? like what if the "madness" wasn't any form of insanity but rather the frames fully sane lashing out against the people that continuedly abused them? I'm sure other lore experts may have a reason that wouldn't be the case and i would love to hear why it wouldn't be, but as far as i can think every time a frame is being called mad its coming from the perspective of an Orokin, or Ordis who is just against the stalker. Im kinda thinking we are getting a biased story teller sorta thing happening where the Orokin poked a bear and then blame infestation madness when it decided to fight back.

[@valerianos8635]

In the story its already specificaly stated in the sacrifice that the people infected with the Helminth dont have the infested madness. So yea the warframes went "mad", because they where forced into it while also brutalized by the orokin in an attempt to controll them.

[@croissant2434]

since it's ballas who say "we thought we made an infestation that kept their mind, but it didn't, whoops", it's very likely it's either him reframing the events, or him (and the orokins) misinterpretating what is going on. the later point rely on the fact that, if peoples create tools, that they think are that, just tools, "bio-drones under our commands", any out-of-bounds behavior will be registered as a dysfunction, a failure. no matter if it's because there a real error (the madness is still present) or if it's because of they own mistakes (the peoples turned warframe are done with the orokins bs)

[@johnpayne7873]

Nicely done. Two thoughts: First, it is reasonable to presume that Orokin possessed a gene bank for every citizen, Sorren would have been readily identified as Jade’s partner. Consequently, Sorren’s metamorphosis was performed by Ballas as well. Secondly, it is also likely that Orokin brain “remapping” technology for cephalons and warframes was probably quite similar, it is unclear Jade and Sorren retained memories of each other were intended or not by the Orokin given the marked variability of cephalons keeping the human/organic identity.

[@yokai1235]

on the first one she could have just not disclosed remenber they have laws and she turned into a warframe was just ballas schemes insted of her being sentenced as experiment and 2 warframes and cephalons are completely separated tech specially that the mind alteration is made the same way the yuvan ritual using kuva which is diferent of warframes that have their minds and will corroded by the technocite

[@DragonxFlutter]

I will say this: This was one hell of a quest to release on Father's Day.

[@umbruh6259]

It’s been so awesome seeing you upload more over the past few months. By far my favorite lore content creator, keep it up!

[@medo4945]

"Jade Light" was mentioned for the first time in The New War quest at The End when Ballas was walking towards Lotus saying "...people warned me against you, you know. Early on. Before the jade light"

[@medo4945]

For some reason not for everyone is same in the quest, I see different voice lines at other players but u can see for yourself at the YT title "Ballas Dies and the Man in the wall Appears full ending scene" if u want to do some research

[@StallordD]

The Jade Light was mentioned many times before that. First mentioned in the Synthesis crewman lore, then fully titled in the Second Dream, then name dropped a couple more times after that, but before New War.

[@medo4945]

@@StallordD ah I don't remember a lot of things I played everything before the new war quest long long time, thx

[@Rozenque74]

You can read Jade's letter (her POV) from Jade's promise. Go to any relay, in the Conclave room, you'll see Jade's feathers near a gravestone next to Teshin. It adds insight on how she had endured after all these times.

[@Tabby3456]

If the Warframe universe taught me anything, the biggest driver in the universe... is love...

[@itsQueenPurple]

Oh you can now read more Jade lore in the Teshin room in the relais!. It gives even more informations about the quest story. I almost cryed reading it ngl. It was very touching

[@stigmatoxin1310]

now that we have the memory feather's in Teshin's room in the relay, we now know that Jade was also a warrior of some kind before she was turned, and that she was always aware of her identity. this only goes to show that a warframe's sanity is relative to the amount of mental trauma they have endured. and once they have endured extreme trauma, that's all their mind will focus on. this is what happened when Umbra killed his son and Sorren witnessed the slaughter of his masters who he was still fiercely loyal to. also, the fact that we now know that Sorren was a warframe from the start might just clue us in on what his purpose was as a warframe. of course, this is getting into the realm of speculation, but i think it's safe to assume that he always had the powers and arsenal that he currently does, which are uniquely designed to counter other warframes. basically, i think Sorren became the Stalker because that is likely what his warframe model is called, "Stalker". i believe Ballas used him as an anti-warframe, a means to snuff out any rebels and dissenters, ones like Kullervo. and now that we know that his helmet is meant to evoke the design of the Low Guardian badge, its safe to assume that the acolytes were also Low Guardians who pissed off the Orokin in one way or another... as for why Stalker hates warframes specifically? again, this is going into speculation, but we know he's a first generation warframe, which is to say that his trade was possibly hunting down rogue warframes that werent paired yet. this would mean that he wasnt aware of who the Tenno were at the time. but given the various dialogue in the game, we do know that he eventually becomes aware of the Tenno as a faction that is paired with warframes, but he doesnt fully understand the connection at this time. but we know that at some point, he does figure it out and this revelation has a part to play in his infested wildness; the lotus stated that the secret behind the Tenno's power "drove the Stalker to madness." i imagine it was the revelation that the Tenno are just children that sent him over the edge. and he forgets certain details, like the fact that the warframes are not Tenno. keep in mind, im just using in-game dialogue as context...

[@zodiacqueen1356]

Are you saying that our tenno felt the pain of child birth? 😰

[@varlak9061]

I'm hoping its more just general pain and not specifically your operator feeling giving birth, would be weird for the children, especially the guys lol but it does add to the grim dark universe

[@youraveragechroma2139]

Jade had her own consciousness. But when we craft her, she doesn’t have Umbra’s passive or show of consciousness. In fact, neither does Stalker when he shows up in Duviri. My theory is that original warframes are created off of a person, they keep most of their mind and sanity, then they are copied to be Tenno controlled or primed to also be controlled but with the person’s essence only being replicated. This would explain why warframes even have idle animations, original powersets, and can take other abilities when you take from other warframes. This could also explain why Excalibur umbra is an umbra. It is designed to keep the entire Dax’s mind conscious to suffer at Ballas’ own gross will. So when we copy him, our copy isn’t just his mind’s essence.

[@valerianos8635]

I think that is more of a gameplay reason when it comes to the stalker at least. Since Umbras passive was always buggy and DE never tried to remake or fix it.

[@sitchreapotere1073]

Bear in mind that we also reconstruct Umbra from largely intact pieces soon after his death, *and*, most importantly, we use Kuva in the process. So the Umbra we reconstruct is still the same original Umbra, his consciousness returned.

[@Darthmufin]

11:25 this is exactly what i suggested as well, nice to see we are in the same page with that assumption. There is no way the child won't return in the future , perhaps as a closing finale to the man in the wall story in... 2035 lol.

[@varlak9061]

Definitely it's way too unique of a story to just throw away, The first BORN Warframe

[@TauMeleeSeeker]

there is a tombstone in teshins relay room that tells the experiments that happened with jade during the orokin era

[@petervamvakaries]

We finally got a glimpse of Warframe's strongest weapon against The man on the wall and the indifference.

[@jesuschad]

As long I have been playing Warframe, I never thought I would see a Warframe giving birth not only giving birth, giving birth of the child of the stalker oddly it's so beautiful I haven't felt emotions since the sacrifice quest and the fact they dropped the quest after Father's Day

[@cheesebucket142]

Might be worth remaking/making a follow-up of this with the additional lore from Jade's grave site (in Teshin's room in the relays) as it answers a lot of questions/expands the story a fair bit.

[@honestmistake8167]

I would like to one day see a video speculating on what ancient or current warframe designs could have been stolen to design each Eximus unit, if we are to consider that they are made in a similar way to the Jade Light Eximus.

[@valerianos8635]

I mean some of them are easy to speculate from wich warframe they where based on. Some dont... I dont think DE thought about the rest of the eximus units yet. Maybe they will make some more codex entries in the future addressing it. Or maybe they dont deem it as a valuable thing that needs explaining.

[@lozmaster6441]

Part of me kind of hopes that, when the operation is complete, there will be a cutscene/ cinematic of ordis launching all of the motes into the sun. I like to imagine it'll look like when someone launches Boba out of a straw 😂

[@keithcarson7638]

it would probably look more like how we sent Sevagoth to the void.

[@ImDaRealBoi]

@@keithcarson7638Imagine is the stalker joins us on our railjack during that...

[@rougarabid]

Not really sure how to go about this but I’d like to know if you’d be interested in doing a crossover video on my channel. I’ve currently got a survival challenge series going and my viewers asked if I can do Warframe…I don’t know anything about Warframe. Would you be interested in making a guest appearance in the video talking about how powerful the Warframe universe is and their chances of surviving a DOOM Invasion. Check out my original video if you want to see the basic vibe of my channel. Would These Shooter Heroes Survive the DOOM Invasion? kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqG6o42DjM6SntE

[@StallordD]

Sure! Hit me up on Discord if that would be easier!

[@geoczeoszkar]

Nothing makes me happier than seeing Hunhow slowly develop as well. I honestly want to hear all those tales from space gramps. To once again entrust something to our faction this important to him, I think his hatred for us is gone. We should get him out of that Ocean. He has been rotting for too long.

[@hahgotem3886]

I hope after the MITW arc DE goes back to the sentients and we get to see what the Tau system really looks like. And maybe we can give Erra a final end to his misery being a prisoner of his own body.

[@HaydrianCindel]

I have a theory. I know right now some of us are leaning towards the idea of there being other independent frames like Umbra, and that one of them is Stalker. However I have an idea. As you mention in the video, the very first frames are thought to have been even more wild and insane than later models. As I understand it, not a lot is for sure known about them other than that. So with the "first batch" of frames in mind, something Ordis says when you visit him as Jade got me thinking. "Ordis understands this both is, and is not the same Jade". Which implies or maybe confirms that there IS a difference between the original frame, and the ones we forge. The term original frame here specifically meaning: A person that was turned into a Warframe, and was then used as a blueprint to make copies of them. I get the feeling the difference between them is probably deeper and more important than the new frames we make just generally being copies. Then I read over Dante lore, and a passage mentions he was driven mad by the Voids temptations within "the book" and his mind was forever filled with muttering void tongue. I thought that was odd, I wouldn't have thought frames could be driven mad. After all they're supposed to be mad already, and the Orokin saw no positive results from attempting to "Brutalize their minds". Then I remembered the Stalker has been called insane at least a couple times now. The Lotus says he was driven mad, and Ordis doesn't think there's much mind left in him. And then I thought, "what if the only important difference between Original Frames and copies, is the amount of the original person that is left in them". Maybe their minds aren't fully copies over, making them easier to control, or.. maybe the copies don't have souls? Or at least not the original souls. And maybe thats part of why the original frames are often talked about more like individuals. Maybe that's why all of their stories from the Old War are so full of distinct personality. Maybe the amount of person left in the frame affected the Tenno while in Transference, changing the way they behaved to greater and lesser degrees. These strong personalities may have mixed with, or in some cases even supplanted the Tennos own. I have some examples that I think back this up. 1. While experiencing/as we exit Umbras memories we say things like, "He's going to kill my son!", implying that, even if only for a moment, our mind is tricked into thinking what happened to Umbra happened to us to. Of course this idea runs into problems with Umbra, but rn I'm hoping Umbra was just "repaired" rather than remade. After all we pick up his remains, including his Nikana which is his own flesh. And Balas says that we rebuilt him. It's not a lot, but it's enough that my theory may work.

[@BlackjackMKV]

Jade's in a similar boat as Umbra in that respect too, given the motes are literally segments of her power and described in multiple instances as her remains from both the event, new gamemode, and the story side of things. It's very possible that our rebuilt Jade is just as whole and complete as Umbra now is. :)

[@HaydrianCindel]

@@BlackjackMKV I had that thought, and I'm not sure. You may totally be right, but part of me wonders if that would mean the rebuilt Jade would Also be able to give birth? I mean for all I know they may intend for the new Jades to be able to give birth, I have no idea. I'm just saying if she is as whole as Umbra then that opens up the potential issue of more Jade babies.

[@StallordD]

Yeah Umbra seems to be explicitly remade and not copied. It's still kinda unclear how that applies to other frames, but it seems like Umbra is still unique in that regard, which makes sense with how special the Umbra strain was.

[@varlak9061]

​@@StallordDI want to believe all the prime frames are like this

[@dimamenetro]

I believe the ordis line being more simple than what a lot of people are making it out to be, I think ordis is genuinely just saying that he knows that it's the same Jade, but it's not because he knows that we built that Warframe the one he's talking to and so to him. Him yeah same same but different nothing more nothing less

[@realmshifter99]

This is why I went with Sirius at the end of the quest. Because I see it as a new chapater to Stalker's story. Ending the cycle of vengance, so something new can be born. We don't truly know what kind of man Sorren was outside of his fractured infested mind, but considering the risk he was willing to let Jade have his child despite the repercussions I think he would have been a great father. The only thing left to see is if his mind can be healed over time, like how Tenno heal the Warframes in a way. Maybe his child's Jade light will have a healing property to ease his pain and bring back some clarity to him.

[@leenara4886]

with how the text we got before the update between stalker and hunhow and how stalker feels guilt, and the fact that when she says you'll take care of always wont you, there is no reply im pretty sure sorren chose faith over love like ballas did or and gave her up, or maybe just didnt do anything about her getting punished, also im pretty sure sorren appears as stalker in the scene where jade saves him because at this point he doesnt even remember being sorren anymore, its why he is wearing the low guardian chest piece but in game we never see him with it

[@makinashagen7751]

my #1 warframe lore man did it again

[@nyxborne1786]

"It has been known that eximus units utilize pieces of old Orokin technology. This seems to indicate that other eximus units are using pieces of warframes specifically." i would like to point here that Arson Eximus units use Ember's 3rd ability, Fire Blast. It's also STRONGLY in Ember Prime's data that Ember was originally Kaleen, the principle investigator on the Zariman. She was most likely given to Ballas and infected. To add to this, Frozen Eximus use a modified version of Frost's 3rd ability as well, Snow Globe. While no lore is given for Frost, his design is directly taken from an unused concept from Dark Sector. Blitz units use a modified version of Rhino's charge, being dettached and sent ahead instead of contained in the user. Energy leech seems to share Trinity's Energy Vampire. Leech uses Trinity's Well of Life, but modified. Shock eximus has a wierd ability, looking to be a combination of Nova's null star, and any of Volt's. Guardians use Hildryn's Haven,

[@4everythingthatbreaths]

I don’t know why but this quest almost brought me to tears. What an amazing quest. The amount of pain the Stalker has endured is crazy.

[@theexurian1079]

Thanks for your Recap, and I'm so happy with the new slew of video uploads! I hope it continues. Personally, I'm a bit disappointed in terms of no inclusion as to what the Acolytes are. If I had to take a bet, Sorren started to lead a group of other low guardians in their quest for revenge against the Tenno and/or Warframes,

[@The-No-one]

Ballas even when dead makes me still say what the fuck is wrong with him

[@sitchreapotere1073]

I believe the scene at the start of the quest depending Jade saving Sorren from the Tenno needed to have been on the Night of Naga Drums, not in modern times. This is because if Jade wasn't protecting Sorren on that fateful Night, she would have been fulfilling her role as Choirmaster-Protector of the Seven Orokin Emperors - and we all know if she was there, she would have died in the Tenno's opening moves. So she *must* have abandoned her Emperors at the start of the Night of Naga Drums to save Sorren, because otherwise she'd have been vastly outnumbered and forced to contend with powerhouses like Voruna, Grendel, Gauss, and Kullervo in defense of the Seven Emperors. And we all know how that would have gone ((Hint: it rhymes with "bed")).

[@lalalalalalalalalala-js5xl]

Yes jade flew stalker away once the tenno attacked because her tenno wasn't in control of her anymore

[@ryanhoward8608]

If the stalker still has the emblem and on his chest could it be he was saved by jade during the slaughter of the Orokin. Because if he is a low guardian he would have to protect the Emperor’s putting him in direct conflict with the Tenno.

[@DjayPaniora]

Well his demise’s after the new war feels 100x more better now

[@operatorverona]

For some reason i see this as a parallel to the Alia and Jessica thing from Dune. A child changed in the womb to be born superhuman. That kid will have the strengths of both. Human mind and infested strength.

[@SanguineDoe]

"Even an inhuman one" I think we can all agree that warframes, tho transformed, disorted and broken, are absolutely human. Akin to the Evas in NGE being human.

[@valerianos8635]

The ones we built? highly doubt it. The originals for sure are human.

[@hahgotem3886]

​@@valerianos8635 the ones we built are fs just meat puppets. With Umbra probably being the only one with sentience after being built by us

[@valerianos8635]

@@hahgotem3886 I doubt it becuause we see owr own warframe save us from the stalker at the end of 2nd dream. Thats why im not 100% sure.

[@hahgotem3886]

@@valerianos8635 ah shid yeah i forgot about that. Damn now I'm doubting wether my warframes are alive or nah. It's even weirder too since now we can confirm botht the synthetic and prime warframes are (somewhat) alive now.

[@valerianos8635]

@@hahgotem3886 Maybe the rebuilding process of the frame creates a replica of the originals conciousness. But have *severly* supressed. Since warframe still need brain function for the Tenno to be able to controll them well.

[@Xulli-Vis-Karos]

I'm wondering most of all now, if Shadow Stalker and the new 'Protector Stalker' coming after us still is actually canon. It seems Stalker abandoned his Sentient gear after Second Dream, that or it was too broken to salvage. Protector Stalker has even less reason to exist as a continued threat than Shadow Stalker. He's a father now, likely on constant move with no secure base of operations. Any possibility of leaving his child on Lua to continue his revenge seems very contradictory to the story of Jade Shadows. I personally would've preferred it if Stalker's drops were added to Ascension, and he stopped attacking the player after the quest was done.

[@ohumhmmm9459]

i think jade was a low guardian too. they were under the hold of the same legems, and in flashbacks they wore the same uniform

[@valerianos8635]

Honestly this and the idea of Jade being and archimedian that found the "jade light", execution method are very plausable. It just depends on wich one will DE go with. But tbh i think DE went with the boring route and Jade its probably a low guardian as well.

[@deegazercausal]

I was not so patiently awaiting this video :)

[@chitandaeru7239]

Wow they mentioned The Beast of Bones again. I can't help but hope that they will eventually put Ordis in a situation where Ordis is forced to put on the mantle once more and join the battlefield.

[@varlak9061]

I hope he is allowed to control our necramechs would be so cool

[@marcmichaud1643]

Im of the belief Stalker will eventually become permanently unlocked to us, like Umbra. Ever since The New War, Stalker in the narrative has become more ally then enemy, or like an "anti-hero" Edit: Since Albricht refers to us as the "Chosen Operator" I have a feeling Stalkers son is a "Chosen Warframe" They've set up a John Connor or Anakin Skywalker plot line.

[@zerotodona1495]

Honestly, I’m hoping we get an ordis storyline from his days as the beast of bones. Especially with his hatred toward graham and brother vibe toward jade.

[@ScorchedIce]

Something that, to me supports the idea of Stalker knowing and caring about the distinction between Warframe and Tenno, is that when Stalker escapes Uranus, he goes to Lua, but especifically to the Reservoir, the same place he met the Tenno, the true Tenno that made him hesitate and realize that Tenno did not equal Warframe. Another thing that also made me reinforce this interpretation, is that the Stalker not only met the true Tenno there, but realized they were CHILDREN. The fact that this is when Stalker hears the memories of Jade telling Sorren he'll be a father, is perhaps another possible connection, some paternal instinct stopping him from attacking the weakened Tenno back then and only now realizing why. Dad couldn't bring himself to kill a child when he got his lover and own child ripped away.

[@lalalalalalalalalala-js5xl]

Or he realised that tenno could have controlled him at sometime

[@bionic-tale4313]

I think that the Stalker could be an individual who is in a transference loop into a Broken Warframe as punishment for his "precived" crimes against the Orokin rules, though the quest seems to contradict this theory as Stalker would've had to be a Warframe similar to Umbra to jeep his mind somewhat intact.

[@StallordD]

That was the original theory for years, but it seems like DE is kinda blurring the lines on what Warframes can do without Tenno (or a non Tenno controller). It's seeming like they're shifting it to be moreso that the Umbra strain wasn't special in how it allowed Umbra to operate more coherently than other frames without operators, but that it specifically forced him to relive that ONE memory over and over with perfect clarity, and there were numerous frames without operators functioning at least somewhat effectively during the Orokin era, though most still were completely insane.

[@youraveragechroma2139]

@@StallordD With Arthur and Aoi? Feels as though all but confirmed. And for Umbra? That would work well with why his conceptual embodiment of his radial howl comes from a scream rather than a blade. The little extra Ballas put affected it, the same way how experiencing Teshin’s death got us an Orowyrm suddenly.

[@mildav4051]

hey, idk if this is the best place to ask, but more than anything this quest reverberated a question i have from all the way back to umbra's reveal: what sense does building warframes in-game make lore-wise?

[@Marathon.52]

So the original Warframes, the people who were given the helminth strain, are a "1st generation" of sorts. these Warframes had a mind, even if they were rendered insane by the orokin torture or technocyte virus, needing to be "calmed" by a tenno before being able to act with sentience. Umbra is one of them, and he keeps his mind when we craft him because we used his original body parts to make him. The "2nd generation" of warframes were copies made by the orokin that do not have a mind of their own, needing a tenno to function. Our warframes are a "3rd generation", created from blueprints of the copies.

[@sinofren8406]

I am hoping there will be a part 2 or a continuation of this quest. Its ending felt a little abrupt.

[@alexanderandrew6535]

If we ever gonna get ordan as a frame / companion or even enemy, granum would be the one who builds his body

[@krimsonkarma8412]

Ordis HATES Granum, I don't think he'd take a body from him. Steal one from him, probably, but not take one that Granum offered.

[@alexanderandrew6535]

@@krimsonkarma8412 true, depending on the circumstances

[@HKRSPC]

I love thie series so much

[@davision4932]

I’m still in love with Captain Xeto

[@riceniceman548]

Do you really think that the Orokin transformed Sorren as a punishment? I thought that he could have taken the helminth willingly in order to hunt the Tenno that ruined his way of life

[@lalalalalalalalalala-js5xl]

Very clearly he was transformed before the Naga drums massacre so he wouldn't hate the Warframes at that time

[@alanabyss9246]

I hope Stalker and Jade’s child grows up healthy.

[@CaptnYestrday]

I long ago stopped playing Warframe. Will I come back a third time? Unclear. I will, however, always watch these. This is what we know

[@FelisImpurrator]

I thought the sanity remark referred to the unknown Warframe, on account of the "they" rather than the Stalker's "he". It could be both, though.

[@varlak9061]

I assume there are other low guardian warframes becouse the acolytes who hunt us just like shadow

[@CrusaderAdam]

Thanks for The video

[@Spritus3241]

The one thing here i have to hard disagree and dismiss on is the Stalker's help during the event. It's a purely player-driven pseudo canon built on a secret (?) marked option, so it can hardly be evocative of his own choices. To compound this, even Hunhow states when handing you the blueprint to Jade that he (3rd person, the stalker) would not have wanted this but she would. That says to me concretely, event or otherwise Stalker does not want to be involved in rebuilding/ressurecting Jade in any capacity. Given what the event is for and the methods by which we acquire the rest of her components, it's safe to say collecting any motes for any reason is also against his wishes. Put simply, it's most likely like stealing someone's ashes to him. Given, you know, she dissolved into light particles.

[@lalalalalalalalalala-js5xl]

Wearing someone's dead lover's skin is usually in poor taste

[@Spritus3241]

@@lalalalalalalalalala-js5xl thank the gods you get it too! it's so ewwy and unethical, made my skin crwal

[@DioStandProud]

Awesome video as always! But why did youtube remove my subscription to you?

[@xuerian]

The start of your video makes several statements as confirmed lore that I am unaware of a source for, such as the specific statement that they were found out and punished for their transgression. Where did you find that?

[@itzzzdubstep1811]

Do you think they will add a quest that follows this?

[@vargrhelsing8042]

11 views in 2 mins, you are growing!

[@davevang893]

First we lose tenshin and now we lost stalker to. I am going to miss kicking his ass.

[@seidrondaer2093]

*spoiler alert* He still hunts us. If you have a Jade in your squad, he leaves immediately.

[@Pastajelly1388]

Me and my operator will never recover from the jade shadow quest 💀💀💀

[@Muzza1993]

So Margulis was most likely excecuted by Jade. Was the Tenno in control at that point because if so that's messed up though very in-character Ballas

[@varlak9061]

No I'm pretty sure it was stated that Jade soothed her tenno operator into a sleep, "who did this to you" I think taken from her shrine in the relays near teshin

[@topcat59]

Cool vid bro.😺

[@clusterfox6143]

Warframe SVU: The Stalker has an unconscious lady locked in his basement, and she is pregnant with his child. The cops come to arrest him so he kills the woman and escapes with the baby.

[@noba04]

in my opinion I don't think the baby is necessarily going to be related to the Wally plotline. Warframe babies are a huge implication for the universe because it introduces the idea of Warframes being an actual race and possibly the next stage of evolution for humanity. While Jade's pregnancy is a unique case, who's to say some Corpus or Grineer madman won't experiment to find if there's anything more to it? The rest of the Origin System is already in ruins and there's also nothing that can truly stand against the Infestation from inevitably taking everything over if you really think about it. I think it fits very well if they want to go for another 5 years of story because there's a lot of conflict that can come out of it that can involve all of the factions in the system.

[@singletona082]

Hey check out teshin'srelay room. you get more lore for jade. Ballas confirmed to have known she had a bun in the oven.

[@Circl3s]

I still choose to believe (cope) that Sorren didn't become Stalker physically like Umbra, but instead is trapped inside Stalker like Rell with Harrow or Silvana with the Silver Grove. His "insanity" doesn't *feel* like Umbra's or like the one described in Rhino Prime's codex to me, it seems more like the loss of self Rell and Silvana experienced. But then counterpoint: he literally uses Umbra's model with a different helmet. lol Also I'm still wondering about the implications from The Second Dream where Lotus says the secret of the Reservoir drove Stalker to madness. Why did that specifically drive him mad? And why did Hunhow suggest him and the Tenno are the same? In the span of writing this comment I made myself more confused. xD

[@StallordD]

That's my preferred interpretation as well, but it seems less and less likely as time goes on unfortunately.

[@lalalalalalalalalala-js5xl]

The stalker was probably shocked by the fact the tenno were children or that they could have controlled him at some point

[@jamesisdying]

lore time lore time lore time

[@SoulbreakerNB]

where do you get all of this info in-game? leverian?

[@BeaBea-54]

And they were roommates!

[@austinguthrie5528]

Hunhow and the Sentients are the greatest example of the future of A.I. Once they gain sentience, they stop being machines, no longer tools to be used and abused. They are people now. They feel pain, loss, and even love. They should be treated as living and breathing beings. Even if they don't understand and still believe themselves to be tools to their masters. We should treat them as we treat our children. Teach them right from wrong and give them unconditional love and compassion so they can share that with their own kind and, in doing so, help create a better future for themselves and their creaters. Now, all of that relies on humans being trash and just doing the typical human thing of exploitation and excessive abuse of those deemed "lesser". We really are an insane species, come to think of it, lol.

[@John-Alighieri]

They will never gain sentience and even if they did they would be programmed to, so not real sentience, detroit become human really warped your view of reality, if aliens came to slaughter us all (even though they don't exist) you'd be the kind to scream on the streets "they're like us we should not kill them" or some shit.

[@YumLemmingKebabs]

This quest was such a WTF, but like, in a good way?

[@l4w1nc0l7]

imagine DE made stalker even more scarier....by scarier i mean stalker will curse us with dad jokes XD

[@pekinpah_]

Are you tennocon this year?

[@StallordD]

No lol, I can't afford to go.

[@DjayPaniora]

The youngest warfame in existence

[@MrTyJacks]

i always thought Stalker hate Warframe because it is Ballas creation and weapon so Stalker hate Ballas for turn him and his wife to be a warframe and basically torturing them in Ballas experiment to make human/orokin a Warframe. Stalker hatred towards Ballas and Warframe is too hard coded in his mind until his wife/Jade dying.

[@peq42_]

LETS GOOO

[@karcistvahlae1207]

You know two things that you didn't know before; Stalkers name and that he had wife/ gf. That's about it.

[@Darthmufin]

What we know: babby