What We Need is a Devil: A Floch Forster Character Analysis

[@Gandalf726]

Erwin told his soldier to push forward, to scream out, to rage. It is exactly what floch is doing. Hes following Commander Erwins last orders.

[@jakedutton5424]

Erwin would be ashamed with how he carried his legacy

[@konstantinriumin2657]

I don't remember Erwin telling his soldiers to butcher and poison and brutalize their comrades and build a fascist dictatorship.

[@jaibhavani6454]

​@@jakedutton5424kid

[@jakedutton5424]

no he would not lmfao, he still had principles and morality @@VercingetorixII

[@nlcrr1617]

​@jakedutton5424 u seriously think Erwin would be anti rumbling?

[@PrinceKumar-oy3kd]

Floch believe was realistic while Armin believe was optimistic .

[@MoricsVV]

On point.

[@paradigm0123]

I think that's kind of the point. Floch and the Jaegerists were pursuing a more realistic and achievable goal, whereas Armin and the Alliance had an optimistic and much more difficult one. I personally think the message the series is trying to say is that "just because doing what's right may seem impossible doesn't mean you should give up on it."

[@gauthierkasongo180]

@@paradigm0123 and they got destroyed in the end lol

[@kendivedmakarig215]

​@@gauthierkasongo180 Which makes Floch right in the end. Just look at what happened on the extra pages. If Alliance from Paradis helps Floch, Paradis people won't die from extinction.

[@boppinboyz]

@@kendivedmakarig215yup facts

[@LoneWolfCreator]

Floch is the Ghost of the scout regiments last charge. He is embodying Erwin's last words and philosophy all the way to the end. Floch's dedication and willingness to give his all for his country is exactly what the scouts have always demanded. Like you said, he's a dark shadow of what the main cast could have become. And what some of them might have become if they had been down there amid the final charge.

[@abdusselamzahma7474]

Not at all, Floch was a very vicious and egoist character from the beginning. If he was truly willing to do his best for his people he'd join the survey corps a long time ago but he only did it when the problems seemed to be over. After that he tried his best to demoralise the troops to avoid applying the only plan that could result in a win, all to avoid to put himself at risk. But seeing Erwin countered his speech, he had no choice but to charge. Guess why he was literally the only one surviving the charge without any damage? Because he used his horse to protect himself and fake a fall at the first or second wave of spray. Later on he used Erwin's image to portray himself as a leader even though he was the very one opposing to Erwin and his ideals. Floch has seen jack shit about the survey corps expeditions and the outside world yet he claims to be a veteran who knows his ideas are the only viable ones. He spread his propaganda to overthrow all the corps and set up his dictatorship. He's the perfect example of a scum brainwashing people to poison the country despite being in a critical situation, by using that critical situation to his advantage. It's funny how even spectators got charmed by himself even though he truly didn't have any good intentions

[@bottomtier3823]

@@abdusselamzahma7474 the fact that you truly believe that is sad but shows u didn't understand the show

[@abdusselamzahma7474]

@@bottomtier3823 lmao you edgelords didn't understand a bit of the show nor what it conveys. All you do is falling in the trap

[@LoneWolfCreator]

@@abdusselamzahma7474 If that's true, then explain Floch's final charge where he takes on two Ackerman's and two fucking titans in order to try and stop the ship from leaving? If he's this cunning and self centered, he would have retreated to save his own life and tried again later. If he had asked Armin and Mikasa to spare his life they probably would have. Instead, he gave his all for what he believed in, and like Erwin, died in his final charge.

[@abdusselamzahma7474]

@@LoneWolfCreator once he sent everyone to death he had no choice but to deal with it himself because he knew it would be the end for him anyway, except he had a high esteem of himself + the anger blinded him

[@sidthevar2679]

I like floch .... He's the only person Eren trusted.... Eren even told him that he planed to betrayed Zeke and take the founding power for himself..... something that eren didn't tell anyone... And floch stayed loyal to Eren the entire time....

[@paradigm0123]

I personally think Eren only trusted Floch because he saw him as a useful tool, a means to help achieve his goals. Jean comments part way through season 4 that Eren normally tries to keep his friends out of the chaos (because he cares about them and wants to protect them), so I think the fact that he chooses Floch to bring on board while excluding everyone else indicates that he doesn't care about him as much as the others. Floch was incredibly loyal, and that made it easy for Eren to manipulate him.

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

@@paradigm0123 given that the only level their goals align on is “kill everyone not on the island” I agree, Floch was a tool for Eren to use, and he was very effective.

[@ari3903]

@@Ismael-kc3ry Yeah, they used eachother very well. In a way, a partnership of shared ideals and certainty is more beautiful than trust.

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

@@ari3903 except Floch and the Jeagerists died and their dream failed because the Rumbling wasn’t completed lmao.

[@MoricsVV]

Also Historia, but her and Eren got retconned in the end, a shame

[@John-rn1nm]

Floch is the everyman soldier. Wasn't really that into being a soldier at first, looking for adventure and position. But as he finds out, he is nothing more then canon fodder, to be bait so the enemy can be defeated. Man of no special purpose, intellect or renowned, a coward who would run from danger. But reborn in the hellscape of the battlefield. With a hardened heart and resolve. If the world demands a devil so his people may survive he will burn the world as the world demands him and his people.

[@LoneWolf-xq4bs]

What we need is a well written character exactly like Floch

[@phoebepaige1619]

Well i wouldn't say well written but ok still behind characters like Eren, Zeke and Grisha

[@mohamedelhediissa289]

@@phoebepaige1619 what do you gain from shunning down other people? Like what did you gain from saying that you could've just let people enjoy what they like

[@dhruvsenju]

@@phoebepaige1619 floch >>>>>>>>>>>> any aot character

[@TATACAW69]

@@phoebepaige1619 floch is the only character who stayed true to himself (not counting those who died pre rumbling)

[@NearbyHades]

@@phoebepaige1619 average woman take

[@mohamedelhediissa289]

My favourite character He is simply too human for a fictional show. I love how the alliance represent the question "are the means (dooming paradis to ethnic cleansing) justified as long as the cause itself is noble (saving the world from ethnic cleansing)

[@HecticDezire]

Floch is surprising to western viewers. He looks out for his own people. An idea very rare among many western people today.

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

Lmao what the actual hell is this take

[@alvinlin8140]

@@Ismael-kc3ry he ain’t wrong tho

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

@@alvinlin8140 okay and? In the process of “looking out for them” he attempts to establish an ethnostate by setting in motion a global genocide and establishing an authoritarian state among his own people, looking after them by not allowing the people the freedom to protest the actions of the ruling class. He’s a fucking dictator lmao. “What’s so bad about submission?” Is not a quote that comes from someone to be admired. Not to mention the worst part about the OP’s comment is saying “western” viewers, aka people not from Japan. If you know anything about Japan’s current government and their horrifying history with war crimes even worse than anything in AoT prior to the Rumbling itself (except perhaps certain parts of the great Titan war) this comment comes off as incredibly horny for a country that *in the real world today* functions as a nationalistic soft ethnostate with seemingly no ability to pay reparations or make any real attempt to openly acknowledge its atrocious war crimes that sully its past. It’d be bad enough if this comment left out the “western” part and was just another idiot calling Floch a hero, but the inclusion of a western vs eastern ideology while likening Floch to Japan in a positive way is… not good.

[@lesdodoclips3915]

@@Ismael-kc3ry a moronic one

[@ジョジョさま]

"Western." White people. Stop using this term to hide from the truth. WHITE PEOPLE. They're a minority worldwide and on track to becoming minorities in nearly all of their countries this century. The world hates White people and many Whites hate themselves. They've been brainwashed and fed propaganda and lies since childhood about their "horrible past" and nature. Their achievements and accomplishments used as cautionary tales against loving and protecting your own people. If you're one of the few who doesn't hate themselves, you have to constantly justify the existence of your own race to a hostile world as many of your own celebrate their demise. I don't think people are going to like how this ends.

[@alexandre4510]

floch is the true hero of the second part of the manga

[@worthyourtime6550]

Floch was driven by logic. Everyone went on emotion, Floch was in the right.

[@BubbledBasil]

Floch's character development is crazy, I hated his acts but still felt bad when he was shot

[@paradigm0123]

I think that's a fair thing to feel. This series just messes with your emotions lol.

[@aloox395]

Floch initially became my favorite because he called out how they should've saved Erwin to Armins face 😂

[@MoricsVV]

Lol same here

[@paradigm0123]

Amusingly enough, Hange actually told Armin that as well! Wasted no time, just straight up told the poor guy that they should've picked Erwin right after he woke up lol.

[@Emerald29]

aot characters are all about changing drastically through their life experiences, but still staying on their core beliefs no matter what

[@MoricsVV]

Not after ch139

[@Butterism]

The most frustrating part of the whole ideology conflicts in AoT was that Eren and Floch was unequivocally right. Talking didn't work. A partial rumbling didn't work. Gasping on to their humanity didn't work. I felt like the story would have been much better if Armin (and the whole Alliance tbh) had an actual viable plan outside of genocide bad. Where the plan could work. And whoever wins in the end, it's left up to interpretation if it was a true victory or not. Fundamentally, I felt like this story should have been Eren vs Armin, scorched Earth vs preservation, the ends justify the means vs being able to look at yourself in the mirror. But sadly, we didn't get that. We got a killed or be killed situation. We got us vs them, and Floch was right.

[@paradigm0123]

(Edited to warn people browsing the comments that this thread contains manga spoilers; proceed at your own risk!) I don't think you can say they were unequivocally right or that there weren't other viable plans. Diplomacy may have failed, but they never even tried a partial rumbling; Eren just went straight from 0 to 100.

[@Butterism]

@@paradigm0123 80% is still partial, though I can see how that's a stretch. Plus, using Historia as a brood mare would never be a viable option. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the initial plan for the partial rumbling was to have Historia pass down the Beast Titan to her children every 13 years, right? So they could keep the world under threat?

[@paradigm0123]

When I say partial rumbling, I mean only using part of the walls for the attack (they were originally just going to use the walls around Shiganshina), whereas Eren is currently using 100% of the wall titans for his attack. Some talked about solely using it as a threat to stave off attack for 50 years, some people like Armin and Zeke talked about using it to destroy the Allied Military and its bases to stop any potential future attacks. Yes, Historia would have to give birth to children of royal blood to keep the power going, but it's important to note that she specifically says that she prefers this strategy compared to Eren's plan. Would the partial rumbling have worked? We will never know. That doesn't mean it wasn't a viable alternative. Aside from the moral issues with Eren and the Jaegerists' goals, I think another key thing to talk about with regards to viability is what would happen if they actually manage to succeed. Kiyomi Azumabito and Floch actually have a brief discussion about this right before the battle at the port. She tells him that even if Eren succeeds, Paradis still won't be safe. The world may be smaller, but the killing will continue. Floch even agrees with her assessment, essentially acknowledging that even after the rest of the world is gone, they would still need to kill people on Paradis so that everyone "knows their place". This plan isn't actually putting an end to the conflict.

[@Butterism]

@@paradigm0123 While I agree that that there would still be conflict even after the Rumbling (as long as there's at least 2 people there will always be conflict), it is still a better alternative for the island. Giving how the rest of the world wants to wipe them off the map. That is the bigger issue/conflict. And while Historia may see being a brood mare a better alternative (she's always had a martyr complex) what of her children? That's why I say the 50 year plan isn't viable. We saw with Zeke the results of children being used as tools instead of being treated like children. All it takes is one child being like Zeke or Eren and the whole plan falls apart. Another reason that makes me disregard the whole plan all together, is the final 8 pages. Even with 80 of the world wiped out, they still come together and bomb Paradis to kingdom come. A partial rumbling would only galvanize the world more. Don't forget that anti-Titan weapons were already in development. Even if Paradis plays catch up, the arms race doesn't stop. Paradis would have to be damn sure they destroy ever single weapons facility at least every couple of years. If we wanna give the world the benefit of the doubt and say that Marley and the rest of the world will act rationally, which after like 5 terrorist attacks I don't believe they would do so, maybe they do back off. But again, I think that's highly unlikely. I forgot the name of Gabi's friend, but he said Marley treated Eldians the best. So it's pretty safe to assume the treatment in other countries are much worse. That kind of hate doesn't leave room for rational thought. Even with the iceburst stone and other resources Paradis may have, I can't see the world trading with them. That's why I say with certainty that the 50 year plan just isn't viable. To many factors left up to chance. Too many times Paradis has to be lucky.

[@paradigm0123]

It's true that there are more variables, but while that definitely makes the plan more difficult, it does not make it unviable. That also does not make total genocide right, it just means that it was the easier option. I see it as one of the core themes in AoT: it's easy to be blind and just kill the enemy, while it's harder to stop and try to understand and empathize with them. That lack of understanding is the entire source of most conflicts in the series. But when characters finally do come to understand each other, they can find common ground, they can come together and work towards a better future. That's the cornerstone of the gang's alliance towards the end, the key message of character arcs like Gabi's and Magath's. Just because it's hard doesn't mean we shouldn't keep striving to do so. Peace may be temporary, things may break down, but you have to keep trying. Even at the end, the gang is still moving forward towards that goal. That is the message that I take away from the series, what I think it's trying to say is right.

[@yoshikagekira9907]

This was a very beautiful analysis of Floch, many things that I overlooked throughout his development was told in the video. I hope your channel grows and more people watches it 👍

[@paradigm0123]

Thank you for the kind words and thank you for your support!

[@ZZ_ZRØ]

@@paradigm0123 DID YOU DELETE MY REPLY???

[@ZZ_ZRØ]

@@paradigm0123 GAY

[@BryndenBloodraven]

Yes paradise needs a king like him.

[@jfo3000]

"Someone has to tell the truth." With my surname and all, I really identify with this guy.

[@barnvandiebos9070]

How is floch the antagonist when he his saving Paridis? The squad here are the bad guys

[@mestredajoker8701]

imagin if floch was the protagonist, he would be badass 😍😍😍😍

[@Adam_Zielinski]

Stellar video mate. I do think Floch is definitely one of the more underappreciated characters in the show and that scene between Armin and Jean Is one that completely went over my head to be honest, so great thing to spot 👍

[@paradigm0123]

Thank you for the kind words! Honestly, it feels like such an out of place scene when you first see it back in season 1. The enemies are man-eating monsters, so of course we think anything is justified if it's for the sake of beating them. It's only later on in the story, when we begin to learn just who the "enemies" are, that we begin to see the true ramifications of that idea.

[@Luke-hd3jm]

Was really surprised by the character analysis great work. I throughly enjoyed watching this man

[@paradigm0123]

Thank you for the kind words. I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it!

[@piotrmiler234]

The last part is pure gold .

[@liad0x]

I hate floch with everything i have, lets see if this video can change that. Edit: At least i now know why i hate him with everything i have.

[@lincolnbeckett8791]

Another tremendous analysis. Thank you again for your amazing content and looking forward to whatever new top you discuss next!

[@paradigm0123]

Hey! Good to see you again! I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it. I don't want to spoil it, but I do already have an idea for the next topic I want to cover. This video got delayed due to work/life stuff, but hopefully you won't have to wait quite so long for the next one.

[@kev7361]

I love floch, he's one of my favorites

[@herohamza1196]

Chainsaw Man Fans: We have devils Shingeki no kyojin fans: hold my devil

[@xStanyyx]

I love that Isayama decided to implement him in the after Erwin era as a very interesting perspective many Paradise people feel connected to.

[@Tahkaullus01]

I have a... complex opinion regarding Floch. As a person, I hate him. When I was first reading manga during its serialization, I remember thinking more than once 'Why won't he die?!' However, as a character and literary tool, he is brilliant. His nationalistic attitudes rub us wrong because we recognise them as... dark reminders of our own past, and if we're going to push it a bit further for international viewers, American Patriotism can sometimes feel like this to the rest of the world. But the most brilliant factor about Floch I think is that he is the dark reflection of the 104th Squad themselves. His passionate attitude, his willingness to give it all, his drive to do whatever it takes to in his own words 'save the Eldian Empire', is _identical_ to the earlier behaviour of the Survey Corps' attitude. We just dislike him because he is _outside_ of that original group and therefore his actions _must_ be different. But they aren't. Floch is the uncomfortable reminder that, once upon a time, we were backing this attitude in our main cast. This attitude that is now justifying the genocide of anyone who doesn't live on Paradis. He holds up the mirror to us and dares us to deny that we didn't cheer the gang on when they were doing exactly the same as him. To dislike Floch is therefore in a way to declare ourselves hypocrites. It's brilliant.

[@paradigm0123]

Pretty spot on. Every time I hear Floch or the random people on the island chanting "dedicate your hearts!" it hurts me to see this ugly side to the spirit and fervor we once championed. Beyond that, I think that a key difference between this attitude early on in the series and now is that we have more knowledge of the world beyond the walls. It's easy to cheer on our heroes when the enemies are all man-eating titans, but we now know that it's not just big scary monsters out there. It's people, and the more we learn about them, the more we empathize with them. I think it's pretty interesting that everyone in the main cast who is now trying to save the outside world has experienced it during a time of peace. They've traveled there, met the people, learned about them, laughed and partied with them. The Jaegerists, meanwhile, have never been exposed to an outside world that isn't "the enemy". That's why they keep up their anger and rage while the main cast can grow to look beyond it. Understanding others is the key to overcoming your hatred.

[@ismaeldomingues41]

I would like to point out something Erwin says in the third season. Something between the lines of "there is a time to bem strict and a time to be flexible". Erwin knows we should reavaluate our believes in face of new information. We shouldn't take "shinzou wo sasageyo" as an absolute truth.

[@mervinstheadore9742]

Oh trust me, lot of aot fans find nothing wrong with being hypocrites XD

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

He’s basically a corruption of Erwin’s ideals. It’s pretty brilliant, sullied of course by the fact that much of the fanbase actually idealizes him.

[@mervinstheadore9742]

@@Ismael-kc3ry I wouldn’t consider him a corrupted version of Erwin’s ideals cause Erwin has admitted to sacrificing his own not for mankind but to find out what was in the basement, floch is just willing to sacrifice others to get to that “basement “

[@ГульДедИнсайд-г1и]

So you have to understand this character Eren told to Floch WHAT HAPPENS in the future and how I understood he didn't trust him Then everything happens how Eren told him And then government tries to feed him to someone while the world gonna destroy his homeland HE TRIED TO TALK with Hanji but Hanji become to an another totalitaric policeman and Floch understood Eren is his ONLY hope to save his homeland and escaped him THEEEEN Eren told him his whole plan with wines and find Zeke You can call him "fascist" I don't care. I understand him how he reacted that everything what Eren told him is "true" Floch was looking for someone who could tell him "the truth" Floch did everything to end this "nightmare life" He never been hypocrite

[@CharlesTembo]

What an absolutely awesome video, I was honestly shocked when I saw your sub count at the end of the vid. This is easily a top tier video essay on AoT, the yt algo should definitely show it some more love. Well done dude, you just got my sub.

[@paradigm0123]

Thank you for the kind words and for your support! This is still a relatively new channel, so I don't have too many subs yet. All I can do is keep making videos and hope that more people like you take notice!

[@AmariDT]

Amazing work of understanding Floch's philosophy. I love how you were able to talk about both sides of the people of Paradis. Honestly, I think I'll love pretty much any AOT video you put out.

[@paradigm0123]

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the video! I do want some diversity on this channel, so my next video probably won't be about AoT, but there will definitely be more AoT in the future. It's just too interesting not to talk about!

[@AmariDT]

@@paradigm0123 I understand 100% and agree

[@reviveempires]

I think Floch is the scary because in the end Jean and Armin's optimism still ends with the Eldians being eradicated. He is scary because he is proven right, even if Eren got his way and saved his friends both morally and physically and freed the world of the titans, Eldia will eventually be destroyed. Easily my favourite character in the show, he adds a complexity that makes this last half goated.

[@kyledeguzman165]

Eldia got destroyed because of the alliance not eren or floch

[@wasabi5338]

I think Paradis wont have gotten carpet bombed if Eren and Floch's original plan succeeded since there wont be any Marleyans who can bomb them.

[@awesomezebroz_2949]

@@wasabi5338 They said Floch was right. they already know

[@cheba_1]

Great vid man, hope you hit the algorithm wave soon cause more people should see this

[@paradigm0123]

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the video! Praise be unto the algorithm!

[@kingjom5651]

All floch ever did was tell the truth

[@Betterkorea-n5k]

I will start the rumbling

[@Trey_Sucks_At_Art]

@@Betterkorea-n5kNOOOO

[@Betterkorea-n5k]

@@Trey_Sucks_At_Art touches zeke then transforma

[@AndrewHUN]

He is my favorite AOT character.

[@jakedutton5424]

How... he's such a prick

[@Umbra2079]

With this quality you'll reach 100K in no time

[@VillagerCometh]

Floch is quite popular but I initially couldn't see why. But the more I dive, I understood.

[@propanelantern]

Such an amazing analysis!

[@paradigm0123]

Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[@jdg2313]

How is it even possible that you don't have more subscribers! This analysis is just on point 🙌

[@paradigm0123]

Thank you for the kind words! This channel is still relatively new, so I really appreciate the support!

[@bernardosax]

Great analysis. Very underrated video.

[@centipedekid9824]

Unlike Armin and Jean Floch is right and loyal to his people. He was willing to become a devil for the sake of his people. If you see that as wrong you might as well side with Zeke.

[@naooseii]

Best video I've seen breaking down Floch's character and I've seen a few, got yourself a new sub ✌️

[@IsDatJaysito]

Floch Goated

[@lxfj2128]

Very good analysis

[@paradigm0123]

Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed the video!

[@isaac_paech]

Wow great analysis video man! Surprised you don't have more subs already.

[@paradigm0123]

Thank you for the kind words and for the support! All I can do is keep making videos and hope that more people like you take notice!

[@marshmelloking4242]

Wow this helped me appreciate flocks character more. You get my sub man keep it up 👍!

[@paradigm0123]

Thank you for the kind words and for your support!

[@traviscue2099]

I think the sad thing about Floch is that its likely that Eren sacrificed him for the others.. May be a plothole or just that Eren didn't care.. But you would think Eren would of contacted him and told him to let his friends go, or to halt them instead of trying to kill them.. Or perhaps he needed Floch to become sold on the idea that he had to keep him radical in protecting the island.. Still a great character either way.

[@iZYL0]

not sure why ur making it seem like the jeagerists are the villains here

[@laforgedesmots9241]

Great job !!

[@ilse8859]

Great video, great analysis👌 Can't wait for the upfollowing video's of AOT and other anime content🙌

[@paradigm0123]

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it! I hope my future videos can live up to your expectations!

[@hayden1903]

they can never make me hate my goat

[@ARIbro31]

Awesome video !

[@paradigm0123]

Glad to hear you enjoyed it!

[@abdoulrahimdiallo5885]

Great video

[@paradigm0123]

Thank you! I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it!

[@gordonmcsweeney4686]

Floch never stopped fighting

[@TheDragiix3]

ayoo the final seconds really got me

[@spookypudge4867]

Loved the video

[@spookypudge4867]

I'm glad I found this channel on my recommendation!

[@paradigm0123]

I'm glad you found it too lol. Thank you for the kind words and for your support!

[@mr_cat_the_second]

Ah yes Jan and serving my favorite characters

[@terrencemoldern2756]

Floch is the unsung hero without a doubt... Sorry but sacrificing your island to a bunch of foreign invaders who attacked you and want to kill you in the first place is not “heroic”... Armin and Hange are both idiots who admit they have absolutely “no idea” how to stop the world from coming and killing them. Yet they are willing to not only sacrifice the ONE plan Eren and Floch have... but actively kill their own people themselves. If Erwin were alive. If it had still gotten to this point. Erwin would be a restorationist without question. It was Eren and Floch who truly followed the code that made Erwin into a hero... not anyone else

[@imsoedgy902]

Will he side with them?

[@krishnendu_999]

Thank You for this Video ❤

[@Edward-gc4tj]

I do love how you just stir the pot metro😂😂😂

[@umaizkhan1]

flouch is my fav character, like him more than eren and levi

[@krishnendu_999]

For Those who have questions about their Fight's importance or Need : Life is of nothing but Fight. Just because our fight meant nothing in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean it was meaniless, what we gained from that fight, the freedom we got wasn't meanigless, to end discrimination, for equality we have to fight, fight to protect what matters, even though it lasted for few generation, but than to remain a slave for generation, than to be discriminated againt for generation, some of us will fight till death for equality. & life is a cycle, destruction is the mother of creation, equality will lost only to be fought for to atain and then lost to keep on this endless cycle of life going.

[@keytendegraef982]

Flochs a hero the outside world deserves what they get Floch was an innocent kid and they made him want to kill everyone, and as for me I hate the people outside the walls and want them to suffer for what they’ve done they deserve it

[@ZZ_ZRØ]

notice he didnt like your comment even though ur correct, what a top tier d head.

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

POV: missed the entire point of the story Edit: Getting called a fanboy by someone lacking enough intelligence to use fanboy as an insult feels more empowering than insulting ngl

[@ZZ_ZRØ]

@@Ismael-kc3ry POV: Alliance fanboy that cant accept facts

[@krev6176]

Based

[@pkavenger9990]

If I was there I would be against Eren killing the entire world but as it was already started, it was pointless to stop it, if they had stopped Eren when even 50% of the humanity was alive, They would be in trouble. And as the future showed that Eren was right. The Boy at the end that fell into the Tree where Eren was buried was going to inherit the Ymir's powers. So they were back to level 1. What Levy squad did was pathetic, how they became friends will Reiner and Annie and Peick. They were war criminals, they should have been punished. they did not deserve the freedom.

[@SirShady0201]

But isn't that exactly how humans are? Whatever you do, you might only be able to hold up peace for a temporary amount of time. Even if Eren completely succeeded, as long as humans stay alive, we will always be at each others throats and continue fighting.

[@pkavenger9990]

@@SirShady0201 but it will not be a war based on a racial difference and hatred. thats the point

[@ankit3402]

So basically Erwin split into two floch (who takes harsh steps to get things done because it's easy nd long time solution for goal to get )nd Armin (who try to get best less harsh way in first ,who thinks his way could lead wht troubles) nd Jean is the combo of these 2 guy like conflicting 2 guys in same argument

[@rodericksasu6976]

The story showed in the end that the ends did indeed justify the means....Eldia got wiped out because they failed.

[@johnnybui7431]

the only wrong thing Floch did is betraying his barber

[@vonmusel6158]

iN Order for the act to be good it must be so in three levels: intention (the heart of the actor), means, end. The only reason Mareley didn't exterminate Eldians yet was to use them to dominate other nations and because the king threatened with Rumbling, but even so they didn't broker for peace because they wanted the Founding power for themselves therefore the pacifist option was always unjust to the people of Eldia because it leads to their extermination. But considering they turn into horrifying people eating monsters it's easy to understand Marleyan prejudice, but still it was hypocritical when they used those same monsters to win their own wars of conquest.

[@0Fallen0]

3:42 dodidn't love them once they were traitors. Floch is my second fav character in the series after eren... also f the traitors.. Hail Jeagerists

[@sakurakou2009]

floch king is best ,I love him , He fought traitors and supported his nation

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

It’s called fascism bud

[@sakurakou2009]

@@Ismael-kc3ry dont put labels on him,he wasn't fascist he was just matching the enemy energy , and the r ending of AOT proof that floch and eren were right

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

@@sakurakou2009 “don’t put labels on him” that’s what labels are for dude. “Matching the enemy’s energy” how the fuck is that a good thing when the enemy was largely meant to parallel Nazi Germany? And no they were not right, people need to stop saying this shit. The amount of time that passed between those two events borders on over a century. They may be connected but Paradis was not destroyed because Eren didn’t kill even more innocent people. Both of their ideologies, while different, were fundamentally flawed. Floch’s entire character is a corruption of Erwin, if you missed that you’re the embodiment of everything the story criticizes.

[@sakurakou2009]

@@Ismael-kc3ry with out eren elideans would be turned into slaves and forced into being titans , after eren saw his mom eaten alive by titans , him seeing his whole of frineds and people being subjecated to that , anyone would have done what eren did , stop acting like you Saint , and floch is not corrupted erwin, erwin sacrificed his own comrades to proof his dad was right , floch was willing to sacrifice whole of humanity beyond walls for his people safety and future . nazis were the aggressors , while island people only defeated themselvss againdt world That wanted their inhalation , elideans were fighting for their survival

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

@@sakurakou2009 Again you’ve read the story on the very very very surface level, and this is a problem that is incredibly pervasive throughout the fanbase. 1. “Without Eren” if Eren didn’t exist logically someone else on Paradis would get the founding Titan, this is a non-argument. Eren also could’ve used his power to solve their problems in a number of other ways but his actions aren’t motivated by logic. Even if you think that Floch is right, the fact that Eren and Floch aren’t motivated by the same thing, and if you missed that you’re probably 5, should be enough to tell you that Eren isn’t a logical human being. 2. “Anyone would have done the same thing”. Literally everyone living in wall Maria experienced what Eren did. He was a murderer before the walls were destroyed. Mikasa saw her parents murdered, twice in fact, and yet she’s nothing like Eren. *The entire point* of the Paths arc and Zeke and Eren’s relationship is to highlight their differences, those mainly being that Zeke is entirely shaped by the ideologies of others and Eren is entirely the product of what he was at birth. He was not brainwashed by his father or altered by the events of episode 1, he was the way he was, regardless of whether you think he’s right, from the day he was born, and is incredibly unique in his psychosis. Pointing out this objective fact is not “pretending to be a saint”. Also saying that anyone would do what Eren does in season 4 if they experienced what he did implies he does the Rumbling out of revenge, which is another unfathomably dense misreading of his character. Eren lays it out clearly before the declaration of war: he no longer sees everyone across the sea as his enemy. This is not about revenge for him by the time he obtains the founding Titan’s full power. 3. “Erwin sacrificed his comrades to prove his dad was right” this is like a parody of everything I hate about AoT fans I swear to god. Yes he sacrifices the life of others throughout his journey and in the end, but the significance of his death is that he sacrifices *his own life* and *gives up* on the desire to prove his father right. It doesn’t matter to any other character whether or not Erwin’s father was correct. That was his own dream he sacrificed in the end, which is why Levi, combining what he learned from Kenny, Erwin, and Armin, chose to bring Armin back to life and not Erwin. This is almost as universally misunderstood as Eren’s character. So many people are mad that Erwin wasn’t revived because of this misunderstanding. Erwin spent his whole life getting others killed for his dream, from his father to the scouts, and is motivated with secret selfish intentions. It’s only at the end of his life that he gives up on this selfish dream and lets himself die for the greater good, only bringing along the cadets because of a simple need to buy more time for Levi. The fact that you miss all this is why you’re the perfect example of the fascists *in the story,* the cadets who hear “dedicate your hearts” as they always have, but in this new context don’t understand why it doesn’t carry the same meaning as it did when Erwin said it. Floch embraces the worst parts of Erwin that the commander grew out of in his final moments, and emulates his personality to stir up anger among the youth of Paradis’s military to stage a coup. This is textbook fascism. Insults aside your comment reads like you’re on the younger side, so you probably haven’t learned about this yet in school if I had to guess. The dangers of letting children on the internet I suppose. 4. “The Nazis were the aggressors” yes and? You’re the one who said Floch was “matching” the people of Marley, what I said was that’s not a good thing given the blatant parallels because Marley and Nazi Germany. And yes Paradis is on the defensive for much of the story, but again you’re as blind as the in-story Jeagerists for conflating the enemies of Paradis actively attempting to launch an assault on the island and the literal billions of people who at worst are simply racist idiots, and as demonstrated by the flashbacks to Marley, many often aren’t. Again, Eren himself says the people across the sea and inside the walls are the same. In this instance, Eren is correct. It is because his goals are utterly irrational that he does what he does anyways, whereas Floch’s goals only match his in terms of the end result, which is genocide. The two of them do not believe the same thing at all, Floch is simply a useful idiot for Eren to use in his utterly selfish pursuit of “freedom” alongside his also selfish desire to protect his friends with everyone else on Paradis acting as an afterthought. Unfortunately you are not an uncommon anomaly, the fanbase is rife with people who possess as shallow an understanding of the story as you, and who through that lack of understanding have arrived at the same ideological conclusions as the literal villains of the story, which is “genocide is justified”. I suggest for your own mental health and that of anyone else you’d come in contact with on the internet, you step away from the Web for awhile and assess what personal beliefs or issues you have that allowed you to arrive at the fundamentally twisted conclusions you did about the story. Until then, have a good day.

[@m1ssjoanna]

Floch was mvp of Season 4 part 2! Argue with the wall…lol great video btw ** edit Fck Reiner...

[@paradigm0123]

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the video!

[@psychmaestro8528]

It's a cool coincidence that the video talks about "needing a devil" while also having 666 likes as I'm writing this comment! Lol!

[@kofireeves-miller547]

Take Pride in That!

[@Linkophere]

The thing with AoT is, given the context if the story; From the 2000 years of Eldian rule to the heinous Marlyian treatment of an empire who willingfully stopped and seceded to let them be free and then called the entire planet to join them in a genocidal romp. No one in AoT in is morally right but everyone is justified. Personally I think Eren shouldve done all 99% minus Pardis if course. They fucked around and now they find out

[@Ryanthebrobdingnagian]

Here we go again. Flochs motivations make sense, sure, but he completely misunderstood Erwins speech. Had he lived Erwin would not have been on Flochs (or Erens) side. Heres why. If you recall Erwins entire motivation was learning that there was, in fact, an outside world. He wanted to prove his father right. He wanted to prove himself right and feel vindicated. His intuition already told him he and his father was correct, but he lacked the proof. That intuitiveness and insight was Erwins greatest strength. He told Levi that he felt immense guilt for joining the survey corps for this selfish reason. As he saw others around him die he held them in high regard because he felt like they had less selfish goals for joining the survey corps. Erwins arc culminates in him "letting go" of proving to others that him and his father were right and reaching the ideal that he thought others died for. His final speech also indicated that he now thinks that everyone's reasoning has selfish roots, and dying is not about those that died, but those that continue living. So if he had survived he would've been a man unconcerned with proving himself right, AND they would've proven it anyway. He was clearly moved by the death around him to "let go" of his selfish desires in order to reach an ideal he saw in his comrades who sacrificed themselves. Floch completely misunderstood Erwins speech because the context in which he heard it was through battle and death. He took it as: Dying in the service of a military goal will get you remembered and honored. Instead of: WE are living and WE honor those that sacrificed themselves. WE can't do that if WE are dead. If we do die, WE can only hope our succesors feel the same. And one step further, THEY cant remember us if THEY are dead. Floch and Erens goals were selfishly motovated and Ewrin would've fought against them for that reason alone. The idea that you "have to become a devil" was a theme throughout AOT. The theme wasnt used to relay "this was the right thing to do" or "there was no other choice" even though sometimes those two statements were true. The point of the "become a devil" theme was to showcase how nearly everyone who did so regretted and lamented the things they "had" to do. Because they were "good" characters with upstanding morals. The characters who held no regret for their actions were generally "bad" characters. Perfect people will still make imperfect choices in an imperfect world but fully understand and feel the weight of those choices. Imperfect people in an imperfect world also make imperfect choices. But they do not think about, or feel the ethical burden, of those choices. Both become devils, but one laments it. Not floch. He was not sad about becoming a devil. He was certain that what he was doing was right. THAT'S why he was dangerous. That's why he was wrong.

[@kelvindoang1228]

but he is right, the world still at war.i mean even after all eldian are killed they will be war between eldian but it is what it is. its like you bane together to fight the enemy foreigner only to endup winning and then civil war erruptss. i bet those people who join handed still not regret join hand together to kick out foreigner even if they were defeated in civil war

[@whitejack9032]

Erwin would have been no1 to join Floch you cringvenger fan.

[@Ryanthebrobdingnagian]

@@whitejack9032 lol I actually paid attention to the narrative of the show and followed the character motivations. I gave what I think are the very obvious reasons why Erwin would not have joined floch. If you honestly think he would, feel free to explain why by using examples of the characters actions and motivations. Otherwise you're just saying head cannon with no basis. Which honestly is fine if that's all you have. It's fun to enjoy things in your own way. You're just wrong.

[@whitejack9032]

@@Ryanthebrobdingnagian Then pay attention harder next time. In literally the fist season he sacrifices the islands own citizens just to capture Annie. You talk too much but you say nothing of value. And btw is spelled canon not cannon lmao.

[@Ryanthebrobdingnagian]

@@whitejack9032 Yeah I addressed that in my OP. How guilty he felt for actions he saw as selfish and single minded. The culmination of his arc is to admit that and let it go. Saying he would've joined floch is throwing his entire character arc out. Sure, I just misspelled it. You knew what I was saying lol.

[@numberfreee]

Floch is not my favorite character. But he's the one I most admire after erwin

[@red-hn5iy]

Floch shoulda been the mc, ain't no one changing my mind

[@mayhemcry]

Well, Danzo is evil but all he did is for Konoha

[@Cjcjcjcj21]

This shit was hard man

[@danielkong6767]

More attack on titan indeapth discussion pls :3

[@paradigm0123]

Believe me, there will definitely be more Attack on Titan in this channel's future! I want to have a little diversity in the series I talk about, so it might not be for a few months, but AoT is just too interesting not to talk about.

[@danielkong6767]

Thx for the reply, hype has begun for more aot. I loved ur format so looking forward to more! Also, maybe try on willy tybur? I found interesting deapth in him rewatching part 1🤙🏼

[@paradigm0123]

Thank you for the suggestion! I'll take it into consideration. Honestly, I hadn't really thought about making a video on Willy. He's certainly an intriguing character, but he's only there for a few episodes, which limits how much I could realistically talk about him. I kinda wish the entire Tybur family had been fleshed out a bit more.

[@danielkong6767]

@@paradigm0123 True it would probably be a short video sadly. Just liked the dynamic of him being a douge but still trying to better eldian lives around the world. This in stark contrast to zeke and Eren. Then my next sugestion will be daz..

[@paradigm0123]

I'll be honest, you're much more likely to get a Willy video out of me than a Daz video lol

[@joakoovlack7110]

In the end Floch was right.

[@belugatheyeagerist]

Why does this thumbnail look so familiar

[@paradigm0123]

Not gonna lie, I spent about a minute thinking "Oh no! Did I accidentally copy someone else's Floch thumbnail?!" before looking at your profile picture lol

[@belugatheyeagerist]

@@paradigm0123 lol yes.

[@michaelgoggin2011]

Do porch galliard

[@misterbxiv]

The comics pretty much confirmed floch eas right. In the expanded ending, the world gets annihilated anyway-or at least paradise

[@paradigm0123]

(Warning people browsing the comments that this thread contains manga spoilers; proceed at your own risk!) I really don't understand how people think the ending of the manga "proves" Floch was right. We don't know what the world would have been like if the Jaegerists had succeeded. In Kiyomi and Floch's discussion before the battle at the port, they both acknowledge that there would still be violence and conflict on Paradis even if the rest of the world was wiped out. We even see hints of this among the island's citizens right after Eren triggers the rumbling. Who's to say the island wouldn't tear itself apart anyway? The titans would still exist, so what's to stop another Great Titan War? It's a bunch of "what ifs" and "maybes". Nothing is confirmed at all.

[@Jonas-ob2sh]

I think it's more like Armin thought too at some point that abandoning your humanity is the only way to fight monsters that are the titans (he however was never that far gone when it came to this viewpoint and he could get out of it because he too showed signs back in S1 that he wanted to avoid conflict on some level when he said he wanted to talk to Annie before Mikasa interrupted him) but after killing that woman from Kenny's squad he started to question this mindset and especially when killing thousands of innocent civilians in Marley and realizing how complex the world really is, he started to shift as a character to what was briefly showed in S1 and something that was starting to develop in S3.

[@Jonas-ob2sh]

Also, I think Floch not only reflects Armin/Jean and what they could have become but he also reflects what Mikasa could have become along with Louise. He is willing to do anything for Eren and in the anime he even receives a wound in the exact same spot where Mikasa has her scar.

[@paradigm0123]

I think it's definitely interesting to look at Armin's interpretation of Erwin's ideology throughout the series, and how he himself has grown and changed. There's probably a future video for me there lol. In particular, I always found it intriguing what Armin thought he needed to sacrifice to achieve victory at any given moment. Erwin and Floch both tended to sacrifice soldiers and even innocent civilians, but Armin frequently determines that what he needs to sacrifice to overcome his enemies is himself (like when he fought Bertholdt in Shiganshina, or when he protected Falco from Conny).

[@homingice6444]

I think people who support genociding Paradis for the sake of saving the world. Have to look in the mirror and take a long good look at yourself. Are YOU really willing to let your parents, siblings, children and loved ones die just to save more lives that you know nothing about. And if you support the yeargist, can you live with yourself genociding everyone on the planet and can you comfortably go to sleep at night. As the countless souls haunt you. Both sides are horrible no doubt but it be better than the alliance path. It presents its problems. Kill everyone on Paradis? You'll be known as a backstabber, untrustworthy, and a heart breaker. Since the first episode you wanted Paradis to thrive and the scouts to win. Yet, when it came down to a numbers game, you ultimately said that strangers were more important than those close to you. Save Paradis? Merciless, you'll stop at nothing to ensure your goal despite it being right or wrong. A monster, because you killed so many people and many of them were innocent. On the chance they would come back to attack you later to avenge their fallen sister,brother,mother and or father. This makes for an interesting discussion and debate. The alliance route is the safest route because you can just pick them and go, "see I don't support either but global peace!" Which isn't possible in the setting of Attack on Titan especially with The Extended Ending were Eren and Floch were right. As we watch Paradis get carpet bombed.

[@benpaul6454]

Floch isn’t a devil. He is a brave loyal soldier who wanted to protect his country against a world who wanted him to suffer and die simply for existing. The worlds sin of hate and immorality far exceeded the sins of floch wanting to protect his nation. I seriously don’t get most peoples take here.

[@flochforster88]

Floch was insanely based and fought for his People, there is no higher honour ⚔

[@tristantorres3558]

Anyone from Marley squad is a villain they lived with the islanders and realized they were not devils yet still did everything stop justifying Marleys genocide on the island by saying Eren is doing genocide, like bruh he is only fighting fire with fire there’s no heroes in the show

[@ignacioruiz-retegui6196]

Then there are no villains either, aren't they?

[@OldJeller]

antagonist?🤨

[@maleexile9053]

King floch king eren

[@Monarch0114]

i ship Floch and Eren, pls don't hurt me

[@paradigm0123]

Friend, I come from the ATLA/LOK fandom. I can't criticize anyone's ships lol

[@ZZ_ZRØ]

HES NOT AN ANTAGONIST. AND THE ALLIANCE ARE NOT PROTAGONISTS. FFS TALK ABOUT ONE SIDED

[@michaelgoggin2011]

Do him please do porco

[@paradigm0123]

Thank you for the suggestion! I'll take it into consideration.

[@ZZ_ZRØ]

8:16

[@daidai199]

finally 666 likes 😈

[@Karen-dw5bm]

Sub no. 212

[@arianaziri3896]

im 100% aganist genocide shit BUT u know in a its us or them situation why would i choose them

[@gutar5675]

They ruined Armin's character in season 4 in my opinion and just gave all that character depth to Floch.

[@ZZ_ZRØ]

GOOD ENDING THO