What Went Wrong with MMOs?

#mmorpg #everquest #worldofwarcraft
What makes MMORPGs great? Why do many of them suck? What went wrong with the genre? In this video, we explore these questions.
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[@MarleMMO]

Question! ⚡ What do you think about the complicated history of the MMO genre? Let us know. 👇

[@McProski]

Really glad you mentioned monster and memories, some of those guys helped worked on EQ, also they're super communicative with their community.

[@MarleMMO]

I'm personally very excited about the project, so I hope others learn more about it! Thank you for the added emphasis! 💖

[@evolgenius1150]

They turned into a quest marker ! finding hunt. It ruined all games just moving from waypoint to way point and ignorning everything else bc you KNOW it is meaningless and on rails. This is why EQ was boss when it came out and games like Elden Ring won out, because it's a damn adventure with no hand holding. We want to be immersed in worlds, not immersed in a HUD. And yess these old school MMOs were just like MUDS even the same text commands for some muds would work. I used to play a lot of Tempus MUD, every now an then i'll play something like Aardwolf or something from Iron Realms... and when EQ came out I was like HOLY SHIT ITS A MUD WITH GRAPHICS

[@MarleMMO]

"A mud with graphics" -- what a great summary of early MMOs! 💖

[@heatrayzvideo3007]

It's the "new player" paradigm where everything is simplified for imaged new players who apparently need to be given everything for free.

[@MarleMMO]

Can you elaborate? 🥰

[@redfrog2275]

I know i'm super late to this video, but this is an absolutely phenomenal breakdown and should be something game dev classes should examine as well. Really great stuff.

[@MarleMMO]

Very kind words -- thank you! 💖

[@rhinox3474]

Awesome use of the Asherons call portal

[@MarleMMO]

😜

[@Popsqawle]

Great video, my man. First of yours I've seen. Subbed. Well written and good editing.

[@MarleMMO]

🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰

[@lolYoruichifan]

Aion had a good shot at becoming and being a great MMO, Was just to bad the flight system had a time limit and was limited to certain areas.

[@MarleMMO]

I had high hopes for Aion too. 😥

[@timit2thelimit]

Always appreciate your perspective, sir :)

[@MarleMMO]

Thank you for the kind words! 🥰

[@ElloaASMR]

Fantastic video and beautiful annalysis! Also thanks for the shoutout to Embers Adrift :)

[@MarleMMO]

Thank you! I hope to continue to revisit EA - congratulations on the new patch! 🥰

[@Plaximos]

Great Video Overall. I liked how you broke everything down and put an emphasis and explained the MMO structure of what made MMO's good such as building, PVP, Chat and Levels and then explained how some modern mmo's are getting away from that but how others are getting back to that with their classic versions and how other indie mmos are capturing the orginal mmo design formula as well as private servers.

[@MarleMMO]

Thank you Plaximos! Much appreciation for the kind words! 🥰

[@TheRealMisterBam]

I think alot of game companies opt for making AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE through atleast 2 elements I can think of; microtransactions for quick and easy money and a solid competitive element for such as a solid end game, rushing to the new dungeon, heavily publicized tournaments, sponsors, licensed teams, etc etc. examples of games with one or more of these elements are Fortnite, PUBG, Valorant, Hearthstone, League of Legends, DOTA, Starcraft 1&2, Final Fantasy XIV and WoW. In my opinion, if MMORPG's can tap in to what made fortnite so popular, in terms of exciting game play, glamourous competitive scene, lots of customization options, combination of elements that can be enjoyed by both competitive and casual players alike whether they enjoy watching or they enjoy competing, I think MMORPG's can make a comeback.

[@MarleMMO]

I appreciate the examples you provided. With respect to MMO game design, how would you translate session/map based gameplay of a battle royale to a MMO with an "open world?" 💖

[@TheRealMisterBam]

@@MarleMMO I think many have tried with instance based wars or pvp matches but there are a couple of issues. 1. It is limited due to technology not being up to par when calculating and rendering large scale battles. 2. Smaller scale pvp matches often have a difficult barrier to entry for beginners either due to pay to win mechanics, large grinds. Some have tried to fix this with pvp specific gear but that heavily separates PvP and PvE elements and the audience gets split. The gameplay in the PvE side has to translate well towards the PvP side. Make the efforts that players go through during their adventures feel MORE rewarding when it can be used to fight fellow players. I have an example that does not exist but would BOOST the game if it did. That is, if Genshin Impact had a PvP element, I'd like to see a MOBA like PvP mode similar to SMITE and other 3rd person view MOBA's. bring your characters and/or equipments to the battlefield. I feel like the PvE gameplay of genshin could potentially translate really well in to a PvP Moba like game. 3. PvP elements in most MMORPG's are not very rewarding to participate in terms of entertainment and prize. It has to be as entertaining as watching boxing matches, basketball games, fortnite or league matches. PvP is either too simple or too complicated, and of course there's balancing that is so difficult to do. but there's plenty of games that have been able to implement simple elements and complex elements and balanced them like a beautiful choir. The right combination of simplicity, complexity, and balancing is needed that I felt many mmorpg's struggle to do. Balancing being the most difficult in PvP.

[@MarleMMO]

Thank you for the detailed reply! Didn't Albion Online have a limited PvP option too for territory contestation? 🥰

[@linklindlink]

EverQuest had the best world created to date down to the mob placement all being within lore. No other mmo quit delivered like eq on its sense of adventure, Fighting your way though a dungeon to get to a safe farm spot and sometimes just getting lost and dying only to spend 40 minuets on a corpse run...that sense of danger also is sadly a thing of the past.

[@MarleMMO]

I agree -- it's world felt believable, not arbitrary; dangerous, yet accessible (if you are smart/skilled/lucky). Hopefully Pantheon or Monsters & Memories delivers! 💖

[@ReveVersant]

This is an amazing video I gotta say. WoW Definitely was a huge part in the era of Modern MMO's but even it started to move to the "wow-like" formula after those first few expansions, where the new content is/was based on gimmicks / new systems, that quickly were phased out in the next expansion. I'd also add Guild wars 1 as one of the greats of the old days. It had good questing, friendly players, and it was before p2w became massive.

[@MarleMMO]

Thank you Reve! Guild Wars 1 is such a special game -- I hope they open "classic" servers. Do you currently 'main' a MMO? 💖

[@ReveVersant]

@@MarleMMO Ive played Albion Online for the past 3 years. I dabbled with FF14, but it lacks the PVP aspects I enjoy, and I played New World for a bit but it lacks real depth of combat and strategy. I used to play a lot of MMO's with Pay-to-progress/P2W mechanics like Neverwinter online 6-7 years ago. As an Australian it can be hard to find MMO's that are truly enjoyable as we don't get the luxury of our own servers often so have to play with high ping on many popular titles in the current era. Surprisingly Guild wars 1 Still has a bit of a playerbase, a sad aspect of a lot of great classic mmos is they start to feel dated with extensive settings menus and dead content.

[@MarleMMO]

@@ReveVersant, sorry to read about your locational troubles; do you still play GW1? 💖

[@ReveVersant]

@@MarleMMO Not anymore. I played it for a few years casually around 07 onwards, then moved onto Neverwinter online in its beta days. so far the only MMO thats really held onto me is Albion, I also played Runescape back in the early 2000's when it first came out. I know GW1 is still somewhat populated from other youtubers I watch haha! What MMO's or types of games do you enjoy at this time?

[@MarleMMO]

@@ReveVersant, glad to hear that Albion is still enjoyable! I am mostly a MMO migrant although I seasonally enjoy GW2, BDO, SWTOR.. and any other number of MMOs over the course of a given year. 💖

[@Dezzyyx]

Since I left WoW in 2011 I haven't really felt like an MMO has filled the void. The only other one I've truly played after is a stint of Guild Wars 2, but reaching end game I got bored. Recently I decided to return to my first MMO, first love, Anarchy Online. It made me realize it wasn't that I've lost interest in MMOs or couldn't find a new MMO I like, it's more that MMOs aren't really what they used to be. As your video speaks on. It's a relief to know that it wasn't about me growing older, or a loss of interest in the genre I love.

[@MarleMMO]

AO is still a special MMO! 🥰

[@Dezzyyx]

@@MarleMMO Do you play?

[@MarleMMO]

@@Dezzyyx I swing into AO about once a year, yeah! 💖

[@toonarmy8524]

They started holding players hands and guiding them and showing them how to do everything instead of throwing them in at the deep end and letting players work stuff out for themselves.

[@MarleMMO]

I miss those days. 🥰

[@LiamsLyceum]

Interesting video, makes me think.

[@MarleMMO]

Thank you! What are your thoughts? 🥰

[@eddieteah3102]

Nice insight

[@MarleMMO]

Thank you for the kind words! 🥰

[@Jendor_IV]

There is still alot of enjoyment to be found in MMOs. Osrs and Albion are some of my favorite time-wasters 😅

[@MarleMMO]

💯🥰

[@Gospelgg]

Another solid video. And I agree.

[@MarleMMO]

Thank you for the kind words! 🥰

[@paltrax]

being from the generation that had to deal with a box price and a sub i atleast feel that was an honest model and when free to play is the standard you allways expect that they are going to need some money coming from somewhere.

[@MarleMMO]

I hear you - it is unfortunate that sub-based games still typically also have a cash shop too: WoW & FFXIV come to mind. 😕

[@paltrax]

@@MarleMMO yea, when you already paid twice it comes off as greedy. It seems standard procedure when you have a big public owned companies backing them that have every motivation to maximise profits

[@MarleMMO]

😭

[@Unknown0human]

I will never find one i love and very stable 😭

[@MarleMMO]

Private servers /may/ be an option; otherwise, yeah, I hear you. 💖

[@cradleofanal]

facebook games that turned into mobile games is what made the MMO genre change.. its there those systems of revenue where developed.. that was twhat started the new age of gaming..

[@MarleMMO]

Do you mind giving some examples? 💖

[@cradleofanal]

@@MarleMMO It's not a specific game that changes things but certain companies that developed certain types of free games that lived on microtransaction.. and this has not only effected the mmo world but in generally all AAA games.. Zynga games, ea, ubisoft and all major game companies are profit driven.. and if there is a new way to milk money from players than they will jump on the wagon immidiatly.. its all about them stocks.. while the oldschoolers from the 90s where all about making a good game, which geneated profits for years..

[@MarleMMO]

I hate microtransactions in MMOs. :(

[@regolith8173]

Well made video. :)

[@MarleMMO]

Thank you for the kind words! 💖

[@coldcrush5921]

If anyones looking twow and everlook are some great vanilla wow pservers. Everlook pure vanilla, twow vanilla plus.

[@MarleMMO]

Thank you for the recommendations! 💖

[@nighthiker]

Hello, MarleMMO! While I agree with pretty much all of what you said, and being a veteran of Meridian 59 and also EQ as it launched I can also say the Nostalgia is strong on this one, I believe there's a couple of things you missed on your treatise: First, the first great MMOs were, comparatively speaking, always somewhat niche. As comercial expectations grew the newer games also had to arguably appeal to a much broader audience to be deemed succesful, one which likely wouldn't have enjoyed as much the absense of world maps and the 40 minute long journeys by ship to the other side of the continent as we (I am unashamedly including you here, hehe) did. So I don't think it's necessarily just developers that are at fault, but also there's an unfortunate feedback loop. I like the saying that states there's no need to assume malice when mere incompetence would suffice, and I try to stick to it. Also, not only the demographic broadened as the games started to increase in size, the very demographic itself also changed as time went by, and most changes in recent MMOs might very well be a consequence of such changes as well. Information technology and the much higher speed of life in general when it comes to how we connect with content and with each other changed the behavior of gamers a lot. Younger people accostumed with blazing speeds who do not have the attention span to even watch videos more than ten minutes long (wink, wink) would likely not tolerate MMOs without worldmaps or fast travel. Hero journey who??? Social networking and the constant need for attention/validation also plays a big role on trying to attain the highest success possible on any given game so you can brag about it - and if that means buying stuff to achieve such goal, they'll likely do it. Back then there was scarcely any social networking - those old MMOs WERE the social networks. ;) So yeah, one can say game designers got greedy, but they also can say they're just giving their audiences what they want - I don't like to take agency out of consumers, like we're mere automatons that will be completely manipulated by media and big companies - I find that somewhat condescending. Where am I trying to get? Well, all that was to say I probably agree with something you said mid video: the age of the old exploration focused MMOs may very well have ended - unless on a much smaller scale, for narrower niches of people, like you and me - which, I think, is why some of those "classic" versions of MMOs running on private servers still exist. There's not really much of a market for them to justify investing in a new one. I hope I'm wrong, though. Cheers!

[@MarleMMO]

Keen eye with the long boat travel times! 💖 I appreciate your balanced & experienced reply. The liminal areas related to MMOs is difficult to encapsulated judiciously, so I am glad you spelled out a bit more nuance than what I was able to capture in my video. With that said, do you "main" a MMO? Or have you found respite in another genre?

[@nighthiker]

@@MarleMMO Heyas... I'm the DDO player who, maybe unwisely, got dragged into a discussion about the game's monetization system on your latest DDO review. ;) So, yeah, I "main" DDO. But I have played many, many MMOs. From the top of my head, the ones I likely spent most time with were Meridian 59, Underlight, EQ 1 and 2, Anarchy Online, WoW, Age of Conan, Neverwinter and, of course, DDO. Surely must have forgotten a few.

[@MarleMMO]

@@nighthiker, sorry for being forgetful! We've enjoyed & played very similar titles -- perhaps we've run across each other before. 💖

[@eleosiluvatar7828]

I enjoyed the video and subbed. You don't need to put text on the screen. It's distracting unless you want to focus on a key word or expression. IF you do put words on the screen, why not check the spelling first? Run it through spell check?

[@MarleMMO]

Cheers, and thank you for the kind words! I appreciate the feedback. This video was my first in which I was experimenting with text on the screen, and as you noticed, it was not entirely error prone. You're correct -- everything that is spelled should go through a spell checker! 💖

[@sportsentertained]

Bartle rules

[@MarleMMO]

Bartle's the best! 💖

[@user-ob4kn3rp3j]

Probably why even though I loved mmos in the past I haven't played any in years. NWN for me nowadays.

[@MarleMMO]

I consider NWN1/2 persistent worlds MMOs! They are home for me from time to time too. 💖

[@hellodarkness5644]

Deserve more views

[@MarleMMO]

Thank you for the kind words! 🥰

[@StarsAndSticks]

MadSeason's new video about MMO stagnation is QUITE similar to this. I'm not calling him a plagiarist but it's perceptible.

[@MarleMMO]

I was inspired by Josh Strife Hays to produce my own take -- the circle of life, eh? 💖

[@EricN73158]

Hell yeah conquer online! I found a dragon ball once too lol. I did not play CO for long, I forget what level I got to. I think 70 or so? The music in this video is really good Marle. I want them to make a old school FFXI, MapleStory, Hell even AlbionOnline. I played a p server of FFXI with lvl 75 cap and that game was really good. I never really got into FFXI when it first came to NA but I did buy the game when it came out in 2002/3ish. I think ideas from it should be in all other mmos with levels. Level Sync is such a nice thing to have. Albion, I really like the old days of 2017/2018. Being able to own the cities, fight gvg for guild land. Money was easier to make back then too. Drops where a lot more rare I think. They also use to have target farming, only certain factions of mobs could drop certain items on its drop table. They still kinda have that now but it is for sure not at all the same. Most of your silver came from chests that you broke and they dropped like 5-100k+ just pure cash, that your guild could tax too so guilds had a way to make money. And siphoning mages dropped something like 20-30 energy so killing them was really good money for the players doing it.

[@MarleMMO]

Thanks for the kind words! Interesting take on Albion Online - I've only casually enjoyed it over the years so I haven't been exposed to the nuances described by you. With that said, I presume private servers cover the "classic" vibe for which we're looking yet an official bona fide version would be ideal. 🥰

[@dust921]

my bad i didn't watch the full video be4 i started ranting im glad u no about playable worlds;) wen i seen dave G from EQnext3 team going over i new it had to be big

[@MarleMMO]

💖

[@MikeeGG]

Spot. On. Great work.

[@MarleMMO]

Thank you for the kind words! ❤️

[@Swempa78]

Nothing beats Anarchy Online as a mmorpg and it's what, 23 years old. Mmorpgs suffer from what all categories stuggles with, catering to insta gratification kids.

[@MarleMMO]

I love AO! What a classic MMO. I do miss old school design. 💖

[@Dezzyyx]

Just returned to AO after 2 decades and I realize this is the only game you need, nothing like it and probably enough to do to last a whole lifetime. A true MMO in every way, scale, depth, fun.

[@Celadonis-the-Lore-Seeker]

The more I think about the current state of the MMO genre, the more I realize that a renaissance will likely come when it will cost less to make them with the help of procedural generation and AI. By the way, I love the sound design of your videos Marle.

[@MarleMMO]

Thank you for the kind words! I agree with you that the cost of tools to develop games have become progressively more accessible - here's to a MMO renaissance! 🥰

[@goblinphreak2132]

I wanted bloated item/weapon/armor so that players could actually be unique. And I hear "that's too much work" except we have proof that its not. Borderlands has over 1 billion weapons in their game. SURE many of those are just higher level items of the same item. The point is between combinations of attachments which results in different stats, they have 1 billion weapons. Why can't an MMO go the same route? There should be so many items. And then people cry "but then its harder to find a set" its not about getting a set of armor instantly. Its about the journey and grind of finally getting the items you want and playing how you want to "live" in the game. I hate that the mmorpg reddit is filled with people who want more simplified mmorpgs but also complain that no one is playing them. like bro no one wants to play that watered own bullshit.

[@MarleMMO]

Yeah, I worry that some of those features have moved onto other genres as many MMOs have vastly simpler ... and consequently less interesting gear systems. 💖

[@FUall19956]

I'm thinking of quitting ffxiv cause bar the group content the game is just relentless clicking, I mean if you didn't read the quests all you'd be doing is literally click run click run click run then play 10 mins then repeat

[@MarleMMO]

Yeah, FFXIV's questing is not much better than BDO (in terms of the amount of clicking/pointless traveling). What looks fun to you if you do look for another MMO? 💖

[@FUall19956]

@@MarleMMO not really looking forward to any at the moment, they're all either pay to win or just really boring, but what I'd like is an mmo that's an mmo that has a good story with meaningful quests, but no quest helper, and have the quests spaced out so you do group content outside of dungeons, what I love about ffxi is the setting up a party and grinding mobs out, it would be cool to have stuff like that with a group finder for mob grinding and notorious monster hunting as well as your typical dungeons and raids. I recently went back to ffxi and I would honestly much rather continue playing that but I simply just don't have the time anymore, if we got something with a similar approach to quests and leveling mixed in with modern leveling that didn't demand your entire life I think it would be great. Also gear means alot in that game, gear is in ffxiv is glam. Sorry for long reply, I just think we need a new mmo that blends classic with modern, doesn't need to take all our time, just needs to feel like an mmo rather than a single player RPG cause that's been my experience with ffxiv and wow.

[@MarleMMO]

I hear you. Have you tried P99 by chance? 🥰

[@FUall19956]

@@MarleMMO no I don't know what that is I'll look it up now though

[@MarleMMO]

🥰

[@ShadesApeDJansu]

【Shades Finnish Pirates】We can only pray to Christian God that something good comes our way... i example am trying to play WAKFU again and i also tried the Waven Demo

[@MarleMMO]

Wakfu is great, & I hope Waven is a success for Ankama! 💖

[@ShadesApeDJansu]

@@MarleMMO I enjoyed tha Waven By Ankama Demo immensively, i made 2 short videos then got "nerd rage" when found that PVP in arena does not count gear/ levels/spell levels i was all "no reason to farm then ragequit" after the demo was over i contemplating how good of a time i had until the arena came into play... i think i can live witthout traditional PVP Ankama sure is having a grand vision for the game to break the cycle of usual MMORPG since playing to win on PVP hooks many players like me... i think Waven will be a pleasant PVE experience where you get the power fantasy, but with PVP like they said themselves "Everyone gets to shine" so no more Meta Min Manx PVP nerd kings, you challenge people based on skill alone and i can get behind that otherwise i would appear as person needing excessive amounts of power beyond my opponent to win. This game won't grant that power fantasy, but it levels the ground for everyone to enjoy or drop all toghether. I will be going into this game with new eyes when the alpha is releaesd, i feel stupid for dropping the demo because of PVP was different than usual MMORPG... Ankama could sink as low to make the game pay to win but this is the most clear sign that will never happen (Like Ankama even would do that, they are a respectable company)so no whales to encounter in PVP if you want to PVP & great PVE content and the world of Krosmoz you bet i agree it is gonna be a success

[@MarleMMO]

Noted! Thank you for sharing. I am hopeful for its release. 💖

[@ShadesApeDJansu]

@@MarleMMO Same here too! Thank you for reading my small "novel" of a comment, i am such motormouth so now i shall just say blessings! :D

[@MarleMMO]

🥰🥰🥰

[@bry_n]

Take a look at Levistras if you haven't. Asheron's Call private server with no botting allowed, and a small but friendly community.

[@MarleMMO]

Thank you for the recommendation! 🥰

[@dalu_]

I can't understand what you're saying! The first few sentences, finally reaching gummy bears in gummble blumb, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?

[@MarleMMO]

I'm sorry - I'll continue to work on my pronunciation. 🥰

[@dust921]

i rilly wanna play diabo4 but after diablo immoral i dont trust em at all i never seen so much evil cash grabby schemes in 1 game ever its just shameless like they should be sitting in a jail cell for that. im thinking of calling the SEC or something thay used every trick in the books its just discussing blizzard shud be put on a watch list:( like a terrorist

[@MarleMMO]

Yeah, we'll see how D4 shakes out! 💖

[@coldcrush5921]

Seems today mmos are designed more so with intent to be addicting rather than to be a meaningful experience.

[@MarleMMO]

And one wonders if it's more FOMO than addiction unless you have a compelling example? 💖

[@coldcrush5921]

@@MarleMMO idk played dragonflight for about a month. Idk how apparent it is in other games but I now understand what people mean by theme park mmos. The Dragon Isles really does feel like one giant theme park just fly from one thrill to the next. Fill up my bag with loot in a heartbeat. Lot of cheap rewards, easy achievements, overall lots of cheap dopamine.

[@MarleMMO]

Thank you for the example! Do you find that type of gameplay satisfying or addicting? 💖

[@yukaihatsu]

Bro wtf is your choice with the background choice at 7:40. That is DDO (Dungeon & Dragons online) DDO Point shop. I’m so fed up with game reviewers citing it as bad practice when the option to use real-world money is strictly an opt-in choice. Yes, there is content that is locked behind the shop, but it’s not a paywall. DDO points are handsomely rewarded by gaining ‘favor’ - a system within the game that offers you that and more rewards for FREE by simply playing the game. It’s entirely recyclable too. Maxed out your favor on your character? Reincarnate your character to level 1. You will get a small power boost, retain all equipment acquired from previous lives and your favor resets to zero. Acquire DDO points all over again. Think battle pass, but no purchase required, no time restriction, and endless rewards for HONEST EFFORT. The option to buy DDO Points is only to hasten the acquisition of endgame content. This is necessary because of it being a small, obscure game and ran by a small company call Standing Stone Games (SSG). I’m just tired of people slandering a game of such depth for an ethical and necessary version of a ‘cash shop’ without having genuinely played it.

[@MarleMMO]

Thanks for the thoughtful comment! I already covered DDO and its monetization in another video. In reference here, DDO's monetization can ironically shortcut the hero's journey fantasy, which is why it was used here. Sure, it isn't as intrusive as Neverwinter or BDO, yet it does represent a problem in modern MMO design. 🥰

[@boredfangerrude]

The golden era has not even happened yet.

[@MarleMMO]

I love your optimism! Care to elaborate? 💖

[@boredfangerrude]

@@MarleMMO The way I see it, what people call the golden era was more the bronze age of MMOs as the design was rough though still enjoyable, it was expensive and had few actual players when compared to today. No, for a golden era of MMOs, I expect the genre to have way more players than it does currently, dwarfing our current numbers. MMOs would have more players but an MMO wouldn't necessarily have every fan of the genre playing it as that's not really realistic. Good MMOs would be getting new players in daily so its always fairly populated, not just when a new expansion drops. And most importantly, MMOs would give an experience that can't be found in any other genre, satisfying several kinds of players instead of catering to just one or two per MMO like what is common as that doesn't really seem like a world to me, it seems like a game from another genre. I know this may come off as idealistic but it's not unrealistic, the main issue is the expense and technology needed which I feel we will solve in the next hundred years or so. Besides, it's better to be idealistic than pessimistic.

[@MarleMMO]

Do you think any MMOs in development may satisfy your vision for the future of the genre? 💖

[@boredfangerrude]

@@MarleMMO Maybe Ashes but I'm worried it is going too old school.

[@MarleMMO]

Interesting -- how so? 💖

[@lajenehuen260]

Why do you avidly avoid calling "This Guy" by his name?

[@MarleMMO]

He has no actual name; he's a metaphor for corporate greed. 🥰

[@lajenehuen260]

@@MarleMMO Oooooh.

[@MarleMMO]

🥰

[@goblinphreak2132]

A lot of people disagree with me, but the MMORPG genre is the only genre of video game losing players. Year over year more and more people join the gaming community and yet somehow the amount of people playing MMORPG's get smaller and smaller. WoW is down to 2 million active subs. FFXIV hit a "record" for themselves hitting 2 million subs. GW2 is also sitting around 2 million subs. YET in the hay-day of WoW they hit a peak concurrent player count of 12 million players.... So the TOP THREE MMOs NOW cannot even hit the same player count, combined, as WoW once had by itself. That alone shows how the MMO genre is dying. And yet year over year more people join the gaming community.... PS5 sales are at a all time high over the xbox but both selling multiple millions. Not to mention older consoles and PC sales. Steam see's 250 million users daily. With so many people playing video games, there is NO REASON why MMO's should be bleeding players.... I also hear a ton of people giving developers excuses. "its hard to balance video games" or "its hard to develop content" no its not. One of my arguments was lack of items and gear. Anarchy online used to have random stats on weapons, and was replaced with a system where that specific named items always has the same stats (for its level). I remember finding TWO sets of knives in AO and their stats were wholly different. One required just piercing to equip while the other required piercing and brawling. YET the item had the same name and same level. They even had different damage numbers! Now every Tanto dagger is the same. Every this or that item is the same. Its been simplified to a destructive degree. And people would argue with me "its hard to balance" no its not. In an mmorpg the idea is for the player to roleplay their character. picking skills and such that suit their playstyle. An example of this would be FPS gaming. I am the kind of person to get up close in your face. So I use shotguns and submachine guns. My buddy is an amazing sniper so he is always sniping. So my playstyle is different than my friend. And that's okay. Some might say that's an unfair fight, because the sniper will see the smg player long before and take them out. But that's where strategy comes in! which many mmos forsake. Balance comes from player vs player interaction. You should be able to counter every player build. An MMO example would be someone chosing to play "tank" role, and putting all their skill points and stat points into defensive things. They basically do no damage but also never seem to die. WHEN that player comes a crossed player B, player B went full damage and no defense. Their battle would be equalized. And I hear it all the time "that makes it unfair for everyone else" you aren't supposed to win every fight. A fire mage should almost always lose to a water mage. Water is the natural enemy to fire. Its just how the world works. But that's where TEAMWORK comes into play. As someone else in the group can help with your faults. You could have a group of 4 mages and a warrior. Fire/Water/Earth/Air spec mages with a tank in the forefront. Such a party could handle almost any enemy. Balance needs to come from teamplay and player choice, not forced balancing because the game is too limiting. Most games now, you have no choice in stats and skills. Everything is pre-planned by the devs, and honestly its boring. Most MMO rogues will be dagger users. Why can't I use a bow? Why can't I be stealth+bow. Maybe a warrior ends up learning magic to boost defenses. There is no reason to limit player choices. This makes the game world feel more alive as each player will play in a way that represents who they are as a gamer. My brother would go bow+rogue+stealth while I would go wand+bard+crafting. Eeach player would build their own unique "build/class" as they play and level up. Hear about an item in the water temple that you could use even though you are a fire mage? then hire an escort of other players. Perhaps a lightening mage as water creatures would be weak to lightening damage and maybe a tank to pull aggro. Maybe one lightening mage prefers lightening storm aoe while another prefers to use single target bolt spells. Every player would have their own unique play style which makes the game world feel alive. "that's hard to balance" no its not.... YOU may not have the mentality to balance it, but its actually really easy. Honestly my passion for games is insanely high. And I hate that the MMO genre is being dumbed down, forced loot boxes, forced item mall, forced daily rewards. What happen to logging into the world and exploring? finding a cave behind a waterfall that no one found yet and being the first to find a rare item? what about fishing in a lake and being the first to catch a legendary fish? all this stuff is gone from mmorpgs. mmorpgs should be so huge that online guides would never be complete. you would in that regards have to read multiple guides to even begin to understand the mass of the game. IF I were allowed to run a game dev studio from home (im a cripple) I could end up building the best mmorpg to ever exist. Because my ability to dream is clearly better than those in game development. I think having to write monotonous code has caused them to lose the ability to dream and come up with brilliant ideas.

[@MarleMMO]

I agree that many MMOs have lost the magic of uniqueness that was common place amongst early titles (your AO story reminds me of loot in AC1). 💖

[@deconsecrator5767]

AO was the greatest. Sorry we can't have good things anymore.

[@MarleMMO]

:(

[@dust921]

i was part of landmark the game & EQnext3 & it still brakes my hart that some corpo parasite slime boght DBG out and cancelled off new black box projects & like fired every1 on all teams :( but the worst part was wen he got holly to lie to every1s face & sayd(( it just wasn't fun)):( then fired her right after & we all new that was a lie because we all played it pretty much & its a devs job to make it fun not shoot it in the head b4 its even has lags :( im so mad AT columbus nova & CEO (( ji ham )) for buying this compony & just sucking the life out of it like filthy greedy vampire:(:( lucky EG7 just bought it & hopefully will get it back on track & bring back landmark & EQnext3 & support the dev teams. i literally became an investor so i can get to the bored & hound them to do what's right

[@MarleMMO]

I played LM too, and EQN's cancellation was a sad day indeed -- I extend my empathy. Do you consider any MMO your current 'home?' 💖

[@dust921]

@@MarleMMO im playing DDO ATM but planetside2 iguse after landmark i pretty much just a wondering hobo i got a bunch of game i jump around to mout&bade2 is good warhammer total war 3 um i like to jump in on enemy alpha testing stuff just to help with feedback like i was jut in darktide and fierst disent

[@MarleMMO]

I'm not too different either. 💖

[@dust921]

@@MarleMMO i was a voxelmacer & a art companion win in landmark so i haven't bin the same snits i lost all my work & the game i was making in LM my hart got crushed probably y im so triggered

[@MarleMMO]

I'm so sorry that happened to you. I hope you have found MMOs/games in which others can honor & respect your creative talent. 💖

[@davidbozanovs1620]

BORRRRRRRRING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@MarleMMO]

How so? 🥰

[@frankferrero5827]

The days of mmos are coming to an end. At least proper mmos,these days the current playerbase are all entitled brats with instant gratification issues. Hence the microtransactions and all the whiny babies crying ''how hard it is to level'' MMOs were always about the voyage not the destination.

[@MarleMMO]

"MMOs were always about the voyage..." Oh how I miss those days. 💖

[@frankferrero5827]

@@MarleMMO Amen to that. From AO,UO,DAOC,EQ etc etc but the mmo that really felt like home was SWG. Now i find myself without a home when it comes to MMOs,shame but it is what it is.

[@MarleMMO]

Yeah, I've been a MMO refugee since EQ PoP. 💖

[@86Corvus]

The low morality scum players invaded the space and the devs started to cater to them because turns out scum has no issue with paying to cheat in game.

[@MarleMMO]

Eh, as the genre became more popular, the market shifted its emphasis. I wouldn't call most of those players 'low morality' -- they simply had a different preference. 💖

[@DylanSmithOwns]

its cause you play female characters

[@MarleMMO]

😂

[@dust921]

hay man(( raph )) is working on something (((BIG))) ATM not shure what but he's got some of the best all star devs ever joining him. like a dream team stuff. check out something called (( playable worlds )) thay r hire to so if u got skills might wanna get in with the industries OG vets ;)

[@MarleMMO]

Yeah! I mention them in the video. 🥰