When A Single Player Defines A Character In Smash Ultimate

[@Moakmeister]

Leon single handedly made everyone realize Bowser was insane

[@Isaac-bs1wb]

Zss sux ain't a meme, the character gets very little reward for outplaying her opponent. Marss is/was simply built different. Loved the video btw!

[@jfrogfoot]

honestly just think you gotta play like shinymark, character just needs to play super lame to win and is still really good.

[@kessler4987]

@@jfrogfootnot really. The reason why Pikachu and Sonic are good at camping isn’t only their capacity to keep away and run away, but also the pressure they put on their opponent with their punish game. If you play timeout zss, you’re gonna get 30% at best or nickel and dime 6% per hits. Pika and Sonic can kill off one win in neutral or get 60% into a edgeguard. So yeah, just camping isn’t the solution

[@Isaac-bs1wb]

@@kessler4987 the solution is to drop zss and pick up cloud... Like I did :/

[@drewf8619]

@Isaac-bs1wb "The solution is to drop zss and pick up...." Steve, Sonic, G&W, Prya/Mythra, Joker, Rob, Diddy... And to a lesser extent; Corrin, Yoshi, Samus, Palu, Pac-man, Bayo, Sora, Mario, Shulk, Wolf and Roy... Like I did ;)

[@dennisd.4726]

​@drewf8619 not everyone wants to be lame af by picking anyone on the top row. Other than joker or diddy. Rest of them are the reason why the game is dying.

[@r.israelmichel8101]

Shoutout to Zackray’s pit!

[@Spyder-Marth]

4:20 honestly this is a very good question. Corrin is simple and easily upper high tier at least yet she isn't that common yet. I see Shadic (best), Neo (2nd best), and DieGorou (3rd best) as the top 3 Corrins right now. I play this character and people absolutely hate playing me. Once I learn someone's habit(s) in neutral it gets very easy to gain a ton of percent and kill them with Pin, Bair, Fang Chomp, or Uair. Corrin also has a killing up throw at around 150% without rage which is crazy for a swordie like this. I so far won 2 tournaments and both were without dropping a set. I also made a lot of top 4 placements if I didn't win. Today I just made 2nd at the Elysium. I can easily see Corrin being better than Cloud since Sparg0 said Cloud is no longer solo viable (hence why he is playing more characters now). Meanwhile Corrin *is* solo viable and have proven it multiple times, even winning bad MUs (Shadic beating Yaura, the best Samus in the world in such a dominant fashion was a sign of the new swordie in town).

[@mercurysnake274]

Cloud not being solo viable is hella cap. Look no further than Sparg0 consistently beating the pants off Shuton in Cloud’s “worst matchup”

[@KerdekBleck]

@@mercurysnake274that’s cool but remember when shuton down aired a pikmin #FreeMercurySnakeLarryLurr

[@n10tan1gam1]

I liked the point of the video "take this as a reason to believe in the character that [you] have". YOU might be the one to take that character into the spotlight!

[@raven-a]

Everytime I go pick Roy to play, I think to myself "where's Kola again?"... Nevermind, it's Roy 😂🎉

[@Kurmanjot-f9h]

I relate to this

[@sethlopez8287]

What does this mean

[@Trattt]

Crazy that leo pulled out solo byleth not too long ago and won a tournament

[@Spyder-Marth]

Yeah and beat Sparg0 too lol this character is solid.

[@TavaresSSB]

He is so tapped into this characters strengths its wild

[@DeathDemon346]

​@@TavaresSSBBro Riddles and Tea is Carrring Kaz right now only top level kazuya in would

[@lbesavant]

Honestly, another main difference that really makes Cloud shine more than Byleth in that comparison is mobility. Cloud is a top tier because he always has SOMETHING to top matchups in his favor. Mario? Great disjoints and ledgetrapping define the matchup for Cloud. Lucina? Having a projectile and high DPS defines the matchup. There is always SOMETHING he has that he can really "exploit" but it's down to the player to make those connections.

[@eldaniels6730]

Fox? Don't touch my shield bro

[@loganbuternowsky4634]

I love the Professor Layton theming! The sound effects are done so well!

[@Eggss_B]

I don’t think zss being bad is a meme. For a while now I’ve thought the character’s mid tier. She’s so horribly inconsistent and when she actually does function, she doesn’t really have a combo game or high damage output. Her ability to pressure you is very lackluster and doesn’t really have a way to force you out of shield cause her grab (and her throws) suck. Idk this character is honestly such a mess and I don’t understand what makes her high tier outside of “oh she has a good disadvantage” or “oh she’s extremely mobile”. Her matchups into the meta characters sound good in theory, but in practice are way harder because of how garbage she is

[@phoenixburns79]

I play corrin, zss, byleth, and ganon in tournament. Is it a good lineup? NO but i choose who i want to play based off how fun they look to play and nothing else

[@emeraldgamer3503]

FOR THE SAKE OF SIMPLICITY, MY ARGUMENT APPLIES TO TOP LEVEL PLAY MOSTLY. I think the issue with ZSS is that even though she had really good frame data and insane mobility, she really doesn’t get rewarded for finding openings. Your opponent misses a fully charged F smash? You get to do Nair up smash for 25%. Most other top tiers would get 40-60% easily (ex. Mythra, Roy, Steve, etc.). Also, I think ZSS becomes worse the higher the level of play. The options that ZSS looks for are pretty obvious at certain percents. At 50-60%, they’re looking for Nair flip kick on ledge, at low percents, they’re looking for Nair up smash, at most percents they’re looking for fair bair, at all percents, they want to catch jumps and space with zair, and look for down smash up B at kill percents. I think at the top level, most players know how to play around this playstyle, which makes top level ZSS much less viable. I also think that the reason Marss was/is able to make ZSS work is that he is genuinely just that good of a player. His ability to think 3 steps ahead, call out opponents with hard reads, and play extremely aggro gives him the edge over unsuspecting players. I think the reason we haven’t seen a ZSS anywhere near Marss’ caliber since himself is because no ZSS player is close to his level of play (I’m glazing a bit, but I genuinely do think it’s true). Lastly, ZSS literally just doesn’t work sometimes. It’s really infuriating when people fall out of moves. That’s a problem with a few characters tho, so what’s the deal? Well it goes wayyyy beyond falling out of moves. I’ve seen several videos of ZSS’s moves just not working (like what even happened with that down smash punish in the video here?). Zair going through people without hitting them, flip kick spazzing out, all of it can be inconsistent at times, and that only adds onto the characters stack of issues. I say all of this, but I don’t think ZSS is a mid character. I think she is at least a B+ or A- character in terms of overall ranking. I think she can’t be any higher than that purely because everyone above her has so many things that she doesn’t. Lots of them have options that are very easy to apply and use. I myself am a Palu main, and I can wholeheartedly say that Palu has way more versatility and ease of use than ZSS. I can Nair spam in neutral if I need to without much worry. Hell, I can spam Nair in disadvantage or even advantage if I want. Other top tiers have something that is just a really good option in lots of situations, if not more than one option. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think ZSS has an option like that. Flip kick is a good combo breaker, but what else? Again, her moves are really good, but what good are they if you have to play amazing neutral and outplay your opponent to get anything off of them? Roy has jab, Mythra has literally all of her tilts, pikachu has Nair loops, joker has a safe Nair and Nair with really good hurtbox shifting, etc etc. it’s hard to place ZSS next to these characters and wholeheartedly say that she is equally kitted out.

[@oscarcalles4117]

Y’all remember when leo pulled a NASTY clip on acola? Shit was disgusting

[@jimmydjomo1767]

To be fair, acola was mashing nair out of disadvantage

[@tigers7907]

ik it's the internet and it's gonna be hard to have normal dialogue in a youtube comment section but main reason why people used to think corrin sucked was because of her lack of mobility but the solution to that and a lot of the newer characters we see in the meta that were previously thought as unfavourable is just to get really good at moving. It's recently become harder to see some characters previously thought to be more favourable in the meta now because at least for now, there really is no solution to having small hitboxes and bad air mobility (which could help you track using the bad hitboxes like with yoshi). Nowadays the players that pilot characters that have bad mobility in favour of big hitboxes are getting faster and faster to the point that the mobility weakness is hard to see and feel. But yeah that's the main big reason to why you're seeing a lot of previously unfavourable characters like corrin doing so well recently.

[@BubbaBrons]

Byleth is a mid to high tier that was piloted by the goat of the game at a time when he was miles above everyone else. I legit think that Leo just wanted to win with his favorite and the gap between him and everyone else post quarantine was big enough to get the job done most of the time. Once everyone started catching up, Byleth’s weaknesses were exposed to the point where a lot of people have started putting him at the bottom half of the cast (which I think is insane). IMO Byleth’s matchups against most of the top tiers and a lot of the popular high tiers keeps him out of said tier, but he’s basically turned into another mid tier gatekeeper like Pit. Probably a lot better than most of those mid tiers, but not good enough to break that glass ceiling.

[@elitecombine5373]

I am glad you mentioned his recovery is not that bad. What is not talked about a lot is directional recovery broke what made people have bad recoveries in the first place. Characters like snake and cloud wouldn't be doing what they do offstage without directional airdodge. You should do a video if hot takes btw, o think it would be interesting.

[@ragnarok3703]

Tbh I think Corrin is a little bit overrated she does decent into Steve Sonic g and w Rob she really struggles with snake diddy Fox bayo and a couple others hard so she heavily relies on having a good bracket and thus is fairly inconsistent. If she was a little bit faster or had better options to get off ledge she would be a lot stronger

[@Diegorapalo]

Raru Luigi also , he is the only one winning majors with luigi

[@sa-x4213]

Congrats on breaking the 1k barrier , good content overall , now about all these characters , only corrin and cloud are good in my eyes ,DIEGorou is the new corrin in town in Japan to look out for , that characters stonks still doing well , now for the characters it’s just players build different here , it’s byleth and zss , for byleth mkleo has the ability to find the character win condition , which it’s finding those opportunities to strike hard but more utility than heavies because disjoint and size , plus that up b it’s really good and for about zss .. well I don’t think just mobility alone cuts it and as you see on the comments , I pretty much agree what already has been told , so little reward and ways to pressure you , has some relevant mus but still not enough in my eyes to be considered dangerous

[@Latias38]

One thing im suprised you didnt mention are patch notes. Its a good reason why characters like Cloud, Corrin, and Byleth became worth playing in the first place after they got signifigantly buffed. On the flipside, ZSS got signifigantly worse before Fighters Pass 2 dropped and Marrs has constantly longed for pre-nerf ZSS in a now Fighters Pass 2 meta. Also, not mentioning Light for Fox or Void for Sheik is crazy, even though the latter stopped attending tournies.

[@armakeen3576]

You could put Light's Fox and Gluto's Wario in a next video

[@im_Spade_]

We all know Fox is busted, Gluto is kinda like ESAM where there's basically only 1-2 very strong reps of the character even though they're arguably top tier I'd say

[@armakeen3576]

@im_Spade_ Who is the other strong rep of Wario? cause tweek doesn't play him anymore, crepe plays Steve 90% of the time, and loaf & huto are nowhere near his level. Also Light is definitely carrying Fox on his back whether the character is busted or not

[@grey8459]

@@armakeen3576loaf is a pretty good wario main

[@Stridee]

Didn’t know you made content Mr Chilly! Hell yeah brother

[@stealthgamer4620]

I think a top tier and top player that deserves a place in this video is Sonix and Sonic. In one of the latest Luminosity videos they talk about how people would not irrefutably call Sonic a top tier if Sonix didn’t peak this character. I have always had this sentiment because he’s one of my favorite players and even they said people would be arguing about it because they wouldn’t have Sonix’s results to back it up. KEN and Wrath come nowhere close to Sonix and they’re the very few Sonic players among the top 100. I will say anyone who’s ranked top 10 ever pretty much defined their character. I want to talk about though, MKLeo has defined THREE characters, I should say “redefined” because it’s been a crazy year for him and no one thought it could get this good: Meta Knight, Joker and Byleth. No one plays these characters like him. He has 3 “obscure” strong picks to choose from.

[@TavaresSSB]

@@stealthgamer4620 If I didn't recently in another video already get into how amazing Sonix is he would be here in this one because for SURE he proved how broken Sonic is. Would also consider Light with Fox there too but this was a great comment to read!

[@keylarous467]

I agree I also watched that lumonosity video where they looked at hot takes on twitter. Also didn't leo also define like in 2019 and I was wondering why light wasn't In this video.

[@ragnarok3703]

I think one of the issues with zss that people don’t talk about enough is her ledgetrapping is really bad so if ur in disadvantage vs her u just go ledge and she basically has to either commit to a hard read or reset neutral, which harms her advantage state and damage output

[@karelissomoved1505]

Ah so thats why local cloud sucks

[@zacattack763]

Shoutouts to Banjo

[@mandalorianhunter1]

Saw your mario video and saw this so new subscriber. I been in the seen since 2013 so yeah I have seen a lot

[@usual-agreed]

How do u have so little subs every time I watch ur vids there so good

[@SlaughterByName]

Its literally all a mental game. If people keep telling you "statistically" a character isn't good then naturally you'll believe it. Play your game, don’t listen to other people. Simple as that really

[@Brave_Tsubasa]

Cloud is busted. Spargo does not carry that damn character

[@Snootedits]

Everyone watches but don't hit the sub button. GO SUBSCRIBE TO THIS MAN YALL

[@Max-cv7pn]

"Corrin isn't gonna carry you like Steve or Sonic would" naaah putting Sonic in the same carried tier as Steve is crazy. Tell me why there's at least 8 steves in top 32 of every major but only 1 Sonic player (Sonix and sometimes maybe Wrath or Ken)

[@TavaresSSB]

@@Max-cv7pn well I just think it's because Steve is a ton easier Doesn't make Sonic not a fantastic character though!

[@mskelton07]

ZSS sucks is so real, she might be worse than Olimar but bottom 6 is crazy for ZSS so maybe not

[@blazkin5011]

Another thing kinda sucks for zss is kuro and shky from japan just dont play much anymore

[@FilthyFarka]

Cloud? Talent? 😂