Should you be worried if you’re behind in score?

[@Jombo1]

Yes, immediately resign once you're 1 point under in the Dark Age.

[@2639theboss]

ACCM just woke up in a cold sweat and doesnt know why.

[@torashiki5646]

The reason why Heresy likely subtracts a lot of points is that your units gets converted and *then* instantly killed off.

[@paletz]

If those were handled as two separate events, it would work "correctly", but the corpse would have converted color. It's most likely that in the conversion event logic, the game fires of a suicide event before switching the unit's side but the score for conversion itself is already updated or the logic is committed to the path to update it without any additional check for heresy. I assume suicides don't give any points to the oponent, it would be unworkable in games with more than 2 players. Either way, conversions are funky, if you convert a unit that is not affected by heresy but it gets immediatelly killed by its former comrades, the conversion and kill scores cancel each other, right? But tactically it's the same as if you killed the unit and for a normal kill you would gain points.

[@merobo5066]

@@paletz If it works like AoE3 xp gains the score gain on suicide would be divided evenly among your opponents

[@IndependentObserver]

Shouldn't the actual effect be that the Convert doesn't lose any points at all, and the Converter loses the unit's worth of points then? It was the Converter's unit that was lost, so they should lose that unit's worth of points, while the Convert's points should stay the same because, while yes they just lost a unit, they also killed one right after that? And since we know it doesn't work that way, and you lose the points after a conversion, and 2x the points after conversion and that unit being killed by heresy... Shouldn't that mean that if a unit gets converted an then lost later (without heresy) it's the original owner of the unit that loses the points of that unit again, thus the actual drop in points is the same, with or without heresy, just delayed up until the point when the convert kills their converted unit? Or is there some kind of cut-off point, some time limit after which the converted unit becomes "truly yours" after which the game treats it being killed as if it was your unit that just died, and docks your points?

[@torashiki5646]

@@IndependentObserver In theory, yes. But I assume its just an oversight of the 1999 code.

[@WWFanatic0]

The interesting thing can also be where you are a better macro player but a worse micro player. You'll tend to trade inefficiently, giving more score to the enemy, but are probably winning because macro tends to be more important until you get to really high elo. If you're producing 20% more resources and using them to keep up the pressure, you may lose a lot but are steadily attriting down the enemy and preventing them from catching up on macro. In the words of Day9: "in the battle of more vs less, more tends to win"

[@WiscoDrinks]

When your eco is solid but your war strategy is shock troops into the meat grinder

[@alekz8580]

​@@WiscoDrinks there was a competative supreme commander player 5ish years ago who played like that. He just had the macro mastered so hard that he could afford losses that other players usually couldnt.

[@benne6512]

the good ol' Soviet Strategy

[@gloweye]

The AI uses score to determine who to attack. This is very noticeable in coop vs AI - once someone gets a lead, the AI attacks that person, which gives a lot of kills to that person, raising the score even more.

[@meinstein9084]

Me: Being in top score in Dark Age 😁 Also me: Realized that my opponent might already click up 💀

[@franciasii2435]

30 vils in dark 50 in feudal 60 in castle My villiger numbers are how i know when to tech up.

[@jotfohm4644]

It is always a treat to get a SotL video outside weekends!

[@minikawildflower]

The late game score weighting prior battle results rings so true in long, dragout games, where one player might have more score, even by a large margin, but what's more important is the way the game is trending going forward - both in score, and the on-field forces.

[@nicolaaffatati5355]

SOTL you probably forgot to say that the main and probably only one reason to keep an eye on the scoreboard is when you see a substantial dropp in the enemy score, so you will notice the enemy is aging up, that's an huge intel bonus on your side! ❤

[@wyw201]

With the amount of smurfs and beginners in the same lobby, turn the score off and have fun.

[@isaisotarriva8162]

My personal rule is: if the opponent has twice or more points as me, it is probably time for declaring gg. By that point usually not even a clean transition to the perfect counter to the enemy composition can save you the game.

[@radiahmed126]

Finally a answer to a question that someone with no self confidence like me always had

[@zeroyuki92]

That bit about Heresy sounds like something that would be patched shortly in the future because SoTL shines a spotlight on it

[@maarten452]

8:49 My guess is that in the code that calculates the score, before heresy was a thing there were 2 seperate functions. One function calculates the amount earned by the player that got the unit kill and the amount of score lost by the player that lost a unit (Something you explained earlier in the video where you said that the killer player gains the 20% of the cost of the unit they killed and the player who lost the unit loses the same amount) And the second function with the exact same calculations but instead of a kill it's a conversion Then later in the development period, the heresy tech was added and the code for calculating score as it relates to these two functions stayed the same. And so what I think is happening is that the game triggers both functions. Now you might think, but wouldnt the monk player receive double the points? Well I think that the way it is written is that the monk player only gets points for a succesful conversion or maybe there are seperate functions for the player that kills a unit and the player that loses a unit. I don't know bro. haha

[@maarten452]

To come back on my last point, one way you could test that hypothesis I suppose is by suiciding a unit, My guess is that it makes sense that there would be seperate functions for players, because if you suicide a unit there's no 'killer player' to assign the winning points to. So assuming there are seperate functions for players 1 function for the killer player 1 function for the death player (the player that loses a unit) the way it's coded is probably something like this; Function 1 (Conversion points added) 36 points for conversion

[@narutoxley]

the heresy thing is probably the points of convertion + the points of a kill

[@mubashirulmoula1798]

Lesson learnt from this video - Never research Heresy. That will be heresy towards this game point calculation system.

[@GarkKahn]

Since i started playing 40k dawn of war i can't research the h word anymore

[@Stelphy876]

2:38 on the other hand you can guess that the other player who is not scaling with you is probably not scouting properly and thus has less view of the map. which you can take to your advantage.

[@Alias_Anybody]

Obligatory comparison with AoE3: Early jumps in points tell you when a player has received shipments from their home city, unit shipments are especially apparent. Generally, scores largely rely on the number of units controlled. A quickly ballooning score probably means they are building up an army for an imminent attack. A high score in the mid to late game usually means massive economic output AND a solid defence.

[@2639theboss]

How do you like AOE3? I tried AOE4 and wasnt a fan, but i enjoy AOE2. Which one does it compare more to?

[@Alias_Anybody]

@2639theboss All three are different. AoE3 is faster because aging up is far more important, due to a) unit upgrades being a lot stronger, b) you get age up bonuses and c) shipments (in a nutshell bonus units, resources or techs you can send for a certain amount of experience points collected) are stronger for the same amount of XP. Basically, the meta is largely tech rush, then rush, then boom, not much turtling . Defensive buildings are less useful due to advanced artillery and grenades, therefore an army is also your best defence. The atmosphere is also worth mentioning. AoE2 is often quite gloomy, putting the dark in dark ages. AoE3 is about exploration and global empires, so more bombastic.

[@MajesticOak]

Sounds like some sort of score decay to lower the weight of points amassed earlier would help, maybe something that kicks in only after 20 min of in game time?

[@maarten452]

3:27 So Ceteres paribus

[@timmaybach8158]

I was always worried about this. Thanks for the video.

[@TIME12308]

Maybe the devs could add a small scoreboard to the left since the right is already full and it can show us the economy points tech points millitary points... Also if this is made player specific you could still know what your situation is but you wouldnt know if the opponent is booming or raising an army or vise versa. This can already be seen after you finish the game in the scoreboard tab if the devs could add it INTO the game it would be fantastic.

[@KanaraVeluna]

Oh how I miss the guitar intro...

[@crimson_grog172]

Sometimes I wish AoE2 rules/formulas were more straightforward, but then we wouldn't get as many Spirit of the Law videos!

[@LukeJAllen]

Hey SoTL, can you make a video explaining what wind speed would be needed to make windmills spin as fast as they do in game? 11

[@camolion7529]

I think the important part about the doubled points for destruction is not that it gives you double the points compared to building since you also destroy the resources so the finished building and also the destruction are really worth that much but rather the fact that the points are also subtracted from the builder

[@alex_zetsu]

I wish I could make in the scenario editor something like "if the game goes to an hour, give the guy with the best score a bonus." Something small, like maybe 3 Cavalier every 10 minutes.

[@GolanL]

Thank you for your hard work, I enjoy your videos. It's not much but here is a comment to boost engagement for the algorithm as a token of appreciation.

[@Lonezewolf]

Personally i rather be an under dog and help, than be a top dog, and fail the whole team.

[@RazorWinter]

So to humiliate an enemy I should wait for him to research Heresy then convert everything. Got it.

[@geeshta]

ACCM: I'll resign when there's a 20k score difference

[@JoseLeybaDiaz]

Thanks. This work for AoM too

[@Firebird377]

When I play against the AI with my friends and victory appears to be in sight, I always grab every single tech I can to boost my score and look good. Heated shot and all the dock techs on Black Forest, whatever. The system works.

[@besacciaesteban]

I don't mind the gap per se, i look at the score to asess how the gap evolves over time.

[@gumhoy5054]

The game is never over until you lose.

[@Marky_Mark__]

Another way your score gets tanked (especially post-imp) is using the market because you're at a net loss of resources

[@Warrior0fJustice]

About the heresy score, does converting a previously owned unit raise the score? If it doesn't, then I think what happens is that after the unit is successfully converted, it immediately gets converted back and then commits suicide.

[@informitas0117]

What happens to the civilizations that are left on the map after you have won and left the game?

[@bnjmndrf1055]

In team game it should be disabled. Lot of time the team behind in score just drop at the beginning of the first fight it is ridiculous. This is one of the reason why age 4 is better design than age 2 (most of people prefer age 2 because we are all nostalgic people).

[@happysnekk]

Enemy : 10000 score = plentiful resources, many villagers, few upgrades, focus on exploration, many buildings, small army Me : 3500 scores = scarce resources, villagers less than 20 (most of them died on failed boar lure attempt), lazy exploration (scout cav auto explore), few buildings+wrong farm placement, only upgrade loom, SPAM MILITIA

[@sevenpolar3483]

does that mean you can have negetive score with heresy and possibly underflow to maximum score?

[@fall4sleepfall4sleep26]

i remember in long games vs my friends back at lans i sold all my ress in late game to buy stone so my score would be as low as possible and they dont surrender :D

[@michaelandreipalon359]

It's like video game achievements, in my perspective. Look, I want to enjoy my beloved single player game (say, Halo: The Master Chief Collection up to Reach), not wanna play some all too demanding co-op separate campaign experience with an ending that makes your efforts a bit too moot and then leads to two weak games I'd rather not play or replay, one of which doesn't have a PC port (looking at Halo 4's Spartan Ops). Either way, thanks for analyzing those strange numbers, SotL.

[@jotfohm4644]

Hey Spirit, you did this topic before!

[@JesperSalama]

1:03

[@pedrocarvalho7480]

Hint: if u r playing against vietnamese, check if his score explode at the begining, that mean he is going to lame u

[@PruthvirajShinde-pf3eg]

24 mins!!! New HIGH SCORE

[@bjwaters]

If the score is this esoteric and complicated, how is it useful for the common player? Sure, maybe you can get a "feel" for the flow of the game from it, but unless you know all these details or you're at a pro level who understands the game better than the score does, it seems like a pretty useless feature. It makes me wonder what the devs were thinking when they implemented it. Perhaps some research into that could be an interesting video. (Or maybe a "what if" video to make the score seem more representative of the game?) Great stuff, as always, digging into the details.

[@daniloalves1139]

Sometimes I forget to do scouting then I see my opp is like a lot of points ahead. After I scout the map Im like tons of points ahead XD

[@adwans1491]

Make a best halberdiers video🎉

[@RMOB]

People discussing when you should give up in relation of scoreboard and I am here, in the corner, just walling my last villager. Never give up people. Every minute in the game is a minute that your opponent would disconnect.

[@LegendaryHopOnBaby]

Don't think I've ever knowingly looked at scores during or after a game 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@yuuya5985]

i never worry about being behind on score on arabia, bc i know thats pure water score.

[@mcbeardsfsu]

I get 500 or 600 points behind before castle and just surrender. I know im beat and early. Which is why i have an Elo of around 300. Despite having this for 20 years i never win unless people tank.😂

[@martinprince8253]

I'm behind in score in real life. Don't ask me how I know

[@floober7931]

Top Score: 69

[@Marcara081]

Nah, I like coming from behind until I'm on top. What?

[@thebobman69]

cringe

[@Marcara081]

@@thebobman69 Virgin

[@Splendorius]

Score should be hidden

[@dericksnowww]

Tl;dw MAEK RAMMS

[@senioritaescalanta5580]

Okay I have to ask Have you thought of being a lector? I love how soothing your voice is

[@hikatoyshi]

I was once completely defeated by a player with a lower score (they played Goths and spammed infantry).

[@7valourvin7]

hey guys the guy named vin here

[@hammerboycb]

First