When Card Games Break

[@austinmcconnell]

As several Hearthstone players have correctly pointed out, I didn't quite explain some of Shudderwock's properties correctly/fully. While an "infinite loop" didn't occur precisely as I described, it was still possible with the combination of Grumble, Worldshaker, Saronite Chain Gang, and Murmuring Elemental. If you'd like to learn precisely how all of it worked, there are plenty of in-depth articles that can explain it (and the rest of the card game) in great detail. Feel free to Google something like "How The Shudderwock Combo Works". Don't listen to some filthy casual like me.

[@blob5907]

It's pronounced Poh kay mon not Poke ee mon. It has the little sign above the e for a reason.

[@Diego_Covre]

That's not all you got wrong there buddy...

[@OutrageousFun0]

I can see that you were really into the topic and i think the video was well made. Maybe do some more research next time though.

[@estebanalejandrosantosmora5466]

Most fans aren't even that mad about the combo but about how you outright lied about the game.

[@dennisting3685]

Poser

[@newuser13able]

Current YuGiOh: What do you mean you guys reach turn 10?

[@elhefe6029]

I miss inzektors. Common for games to last like 2 turns lol

[@elhefe6029]

I used to top 8 every regional with that deck.

[@crustycrumpetkaiser6734]

Na just one turn my I set up I board of 6553531134455 negates and my opponent surenders

[@ss2100100]

@@crustycrumpetkaiser6734 you clearly havent played the game within the last 3 years

[@abbycollins]

Screw the turns I got good cards.

[@jarekhartwell6235]

Magic turn 1: I play a forest and pass Pokemon turn 1: play a pikachu pass Hearthstone turn 1: pass Yugioh: **INHALES**

[@davidmitchell2421]

Player 1: normal summon aleister? Player 2: chain ash Player 1: ok active invocation?

[@ryansatoshi7932]

lmao in magic that's only for green decks some decks have insane 1st turn combos with the right cards in hand

[@feuerjustcomments]

Normal Aleister Link Almiraj Link Gardna Invocation for Mechaba Invocation GY eff activate Nadir send Apkallone add Ecclesia Trigger Apkallone add Schism pitch Schism Special Ecclesia add Maximus banish Apkallone Special Macimus send Construct and Titaniklad Trigger Construct add back Schism Set Schism End Phase Trigger Titaniklad add Fleurdelis. That is the simplest combo around at the moment. I love Yu-Gi-Oh, I really do.

[@Hyperactive_Gremlin]

@@feuerjustcomments Lmao normal summon Inzektor Dragonfly post GRCR

[@phucnguyenhoang9204]

@@Hyperactive_Gremlin normal summon floowander robina lol

[@mattiudean1142]

"Would you want to sit through a half hour game that you know you're going to lose?" *League of Legends players laughing in the distance*

[@COZwei.]

TRUE

[@Rin8Kin]

Well in LOL you at least can have some fun trying to make assassin build for your support with the items xD

[@korengila9873]

lmao true

[@Gaer56]

Tbh i would report this adc too.

[@optimumgaming7404]

League would have been a decent game if you could swear your head off the entire time, but having to sit there and smile at your idiot teammates and being forced to play when your mid-laner has fed theirs 13 kills, is what makes the game unplayable. That whole "controlling player behavior" is anti-american and should be considered a hate crime against humans.

[@pr6897]

Dont worry, Yu-Gi-Oh is at least as broken today as then

[@yovenchadien5969]

"have you read misc?"......yup that meme speaks for itself XD

[@charlymendoza7981]

Paying more $70 for a card that eventually will get ban? Yeah we do that, it’s fun play overpowered decks that will get shit on by the ban list but we love it :) Yugioh it’s like that and always has been

[@mateom.l.2526]

Still pretty broken tho

[@ry7hym]

oh good

[@Roboshi2007]

It's not though it's just a different meta than it used to be, many old school players see what happens in a modern game and call it broken because it's faster. However Konami is pretty good at banning any cards that get too out of control and balancing new combos with ways to take them down, for example the very idea of "hand traps" was invented to allow someone to stop their opponent doing too much on turn one. It's easy as well to say "oh boy if you had X+Y+Z in your hand and Q in your graveyard you can beat someone turn one!" but the random nature of the game means that certain "broken" combos like that will only happen once out of like twenty games if you're lucky. which is no way to win competitively.

[@inflame9095]

MY JAWS THAT BITE! MY CLAWS THAT CATCH! MY TURN THAT LASTS THE ENTIRE MATCH!

[@hyerjohn1199]

Vlad Trufas I’m so glad this card isn’t as influential in the meta as everyone bought it would be

[@whyhellothere3608]

HyerJohn In the high legend ranks it's very influencial

[@Baltr]

WhyHelloThere but high legend isn't the majority of the playerbase

[@emir2591]

Loln

[@wh8twh8t30]

It’s unfair that Brode got so much shit for that even though he had nothing to do with it and it was pretty balanced. It’s no wonder why he quit. Edit: Freeze and Exodia mage were so much more annoying anyways

[@Medbread]

Austin: "I spent over 70 dollars to get this card." Also Austin: "I quit the game 2 days after, and have never played it since."

[@NintendoLover2005]

I guess he makes enough money on KZbin

[@canislobo2271]

@@NintendoLover2005 with over 1 mill subs, yeah I think so

[@neweden2359]

I spent $100 on hearthstone 🤦, only for my cards to be rotated out after about a year 1/2. Yeah I guess that’s a pretty long time, but no way in hell I’m I paying that again just for the slight possibility of winning. It did feel nice getting that legendary though. I was having fun, and my deck wasn’t even top meta, although it still was meta unfortunately haha

[@t3chn0dr0n3]

I pre-ordered Warcraft 3: Reforged and deleted my Blizz account around the Blitzchung incident. When you're sick of something or someone, material things do not matter. @New Eden - that's the reason why I've never spent a single dime on Hearthstone. I've played the game since beta and I have always only crafted cards for around 3-4 decks per year and then disenchanted them next year to make new ones. Hearthstone just isn't worth the money. It never was.

[@JonaxII]

I spent like 60€ on Hearthstone over the course of five years, mostly on adventures. Still having fun grinding the dust for more decks, playing mostly Wild.

[@Chillgamesh]

I prefer card games on motorcycles

[@moldysourlemons]

Ygotas Jack Atlas from the distance: card games on motorcycles!

[@spacewargamer4181]

I actually do.

[@r3zaful]

Actually yugioh is more broken than heartstone yesterday Today is a quite balanced tho

[@r3zaful]

@Angel Alvarado but it does, yesterday salad deck is pure cancer before the banlist hit their power play, and orcust shite. now I still can put a fight against those deck with my tier 2 deck, witchcrafter.

[@ghetoknight7801]

TELL ME!

[@TheTrueGlaukos]

you know the saying "it's not a bug, it's a feature"? well I have to say that things like shudderwock are basically the most evil version of this. things like catapult turtle were likely an accident the first time around, but it's not exactly a secret that companies who make these games create cards like that on purpose. then they charge you a lot of money to get them, they sit for a few months while everyone saves up to buy this new card that is basically the best in the game and the only way to win in the current meta, then they act like they are responding to complaints about how broken the game is and they nerf the card. rinse and repeat until nobody can play the game like they used to and the only players left are the ones that love going up against people with basically the exact same deck and continually shell out money so they can be the first ones to climb to the top of the ranks by having the new card before anyone else.

[@RGC_animation]

Yeah, a card that repeats everything you did before literally giving you the win isn't an accident.

[@ikejohnson5494]

@@RGC_animation it’s a good thing shudderwock doesn’t work the way it’s described in the video, nor did it at the time.

[@duke927]

So no beta testing of these cards before being issued? Or is it just for the money.

[@ikejohnson5494]

@@duke927 except the cards don’t work as the video describes.

[@Estarile]

@@ikejohnson5494You can't just say that. How did it actually work?

[@KingsleyIII]

I'm pretty sure most kids who collected Pokemon/Yu-Gi-Oh!/Magic The Gathering cards when I was in elementary/middle school only _collected_ the cards, and didn't know how to play the games.

[@mediocreswiss7609]

Obviously you've never been a 12 year old trying to show your custom blue eyes deck's unstoppable power in less than 15 minutes.

[@sauronmauron6965]

Well,I knew how to play back in the days,but my technique was a sort of "hey,pulls out a monster,and a bigger monster,and BIGGER one...."

[@ThePikeOfDestiny]

that pissed me the fuck off the most fun part was being good at cutting one sided deals and beating people with the card they stupidly traded you, all these bitches just wanted to trade smh.

[@9kay]

As someone who did know how to play those card games in middle school, I agree that most did not. It was hard to find a worthy opponent :P

[@Liam-jy7yi]

When I was in elementary schools we did used them to collect cards but we did our own version of a pokemon battle.... We just layed the cards in 1 line.

[@felipeluz5035]

So many things wrong on this video... 5:00 - You don't need to spend that much money to get a Legendary. You can just use Arcane Dust to get it. You get Arcane Dust by discarding cards you don't want. Then you can spend that Dust to create any card you want. (Of course, the cost of creating a card is more expensive than what you would get by discarding it. But I won't get too deep into the explanation or the values and costs of each rarity.) So, in the worst case scenario, if you were to buy packs, and discard every single card, and you only received cards with the least possible value (a.k.a. 1 rare and 4 commons per pack) you would have the Dust to get a legendary of your choice in 40 packs. Oh, and a Bonus: you can play this game for free. I'm a free-to-play player and I crafted a Shudderwock after the release. And I have a deck with him. It's not that hard. 7:00 - The copy's battlecry DOES NOT trigger. Battlecry is a mechanic that activates as the card is PLAYED from your hand. Not when it's SUMMONED in any other way. The copies' battlecries DO trigger if they are sent back to hand and played accordingly, which is the whole point of the deck (Saronite Chain Gang + Grumble, Worldshaker). But for that you need mana, or you need to wait for the next turn to play 10 Shudderwocks (each one costing 1 because of Grumble). The turn you play it you can only play 2 Shudderwocks: the first one costing 9 mana and a second one costing 1. 11:15 - Whenever Blizzard nerfs a card, they give you full refund for that card in Arcane Dust. Remember when I said you spend more Dust creating a card than you would get discarding it? For a few weeks after the nerf, anyone that discards the nerfed card will get the full value. That means if you spent Dust creating said card, you get that Dust back, and if you opened it randomly in a Booster, you get to choose any other card of the same rarity for you to create. It's like a Magic Card was banned and Wizards of the Coast said: "If you give us this card that costs 15 dollars, we give you 15 dollars to buy any other cards you want". However, this, unfortunately, didn't happen with Shudderwock, because the changes shown at 10:49 weren't considered nerfs by Blizzard, since they didn't change the power level of the card in any way, they just sped up the animation. (I would disagree and say the new maximum of 20 Battlecries was a nerf. But I'm saying how Blizzard saw it.) If it was indeed a nerf by Blizzard's eyes, we would have received full refund as usual.

[@mechajaraxxus3510]

Also, every other card game is that expensive.

[@Hephaestus_God]

Actually more expensive.. in hearthstone its basically 1$ for a card pack, in any other card game its about $3 for a card pack.. hearthstone is actually very cheep not to mention can be free to play and still successful

[@bradenross4182]

ok nerd

[@foof811]

virtual cardboard

[@foof811]

also, in physical card games you can buy singles. packs are only useful for drafting.

[@terryhidalgo1925]

As a casual scrub who's never made it past Rank 10 since Classic, a couple things: 1. It is possible to have a Shudderwock without dropping $60+ on packs through the dust mechanic (though it's still pricy as hell - 1600 dust doesn't just pop out of nowhere). I assume you just wanted to get the point across of Shudderwock being valuable enough to burn money on, but it's prudent to let people know this stuff. 2. When a Shudderwock is copied, the copy's Battlecry doesn't go off. You have to actually play the card for it to go off. (I assume you said it like this just to get the point across to people who don't play HS, but it's a nitpick that means enough when considering things such as mana costs and hand size.) 3. As you have addressed, Blizzard has exponentially raised the animation times on Shudderwock specifically to combat this problem. However, you're not completely locked into a never-ending cycle of animations - forfeiting (which you probably will have to do, since if Shudderwock goes off, it's probably too late) cancels all animations and immediately ends the game. 4. This video also kinda understates the fact that Shudderwock is a very late game card, as not only do you have to play it (turn 9 minimum), you must also get the full combo of Lifedrinker/Saronite/Grumble (which means drawing and playing one of each by themselves) and - this is a key thing people miss - getting the order of the Battlecries to line up as Saronite -> Grumble (this point is a bit moot with Murmuring, but it's important, because it's possible for the combo to actually fail in this case). In the time that you spend getting the combo ready, you need to also dodge and deal with all your opponent's threats (and this is the expansion when Baku Hunter became a thing - hello, turn 4 lethal - and Taunt Druid was unleashed - aka, more armor [bonus Life to non-HS players] than freaking Control Warrior). Just some points that I felt should've been touched upon, if only for the sake of rounding out the video. Shudderwock, while it is annoying as hell and unfun when you're on the receiving end of it, isn't exactly the pinnacle of OTK lockout decks in Hearthstone (that would be Freeze/Quest Mage, Miracle and Quest Rogue, Patron Warrior, Deathrattle Hunter, Razakus Priest, and Cubelock, all of which got nerfed pretty hard). Good video, hope to see more. :) Oh yeah, almost forgot: M Y J A W S T H A T B I T E M Y C L A W S T H A T C A T C H Edit: Made sure to note that all the unfun decks got nerfed hard, but forgot to mention that Cubelock is more manageable now, due to recent patch.

[@spectrelex3051]

Ah. Not much to reply on this because I *totally* play hearthstone.

[@jasonhsu9954]

Well thoughtout comment. I agree with this. Most of the time, one has to draw almost all of their deck, and additionally, it is not a 100 percent guarantee to win with Shudderwock, as you can Grumble before saronite chain gang.

[@MidnightFlight378]

2. It was working like he described at the realese tho

[@jasonhsu9954]

Come on it's July 23rd already.

[@lilyliao9521]

Yes

[@hhhsp951]

I love when he says "Deal with it" when talking about card games

[@serioussilliness2064]

your pfp is gross. change it. stop it.

[@vivisektion355]

In my tabletop card game group, we have infinite combos a couple times a day, they're actually hilarious and fun to watch, basically what we do is explain how it's infinite, and explain that we win.

[@cameron2448]

Same, nobody I play with actually sits through it

[@deejayf69]

But that's the issue. It's fun to WATCH not fun to PLAY AGAINST. if these sorts of decks are too strong then the whole point of an intractable card game that you against another person is defeated. It becomes much more like Solitaire and people will more frequently ask themselves what the point of that game was.

[@jsd4574]

@@deejayf69 Combo theory communities are very much a thing. The goal of the game becomes 'How can we, as a group, solve this puzzle and optimise our solution' which is still a perfectly valid question. It's certainly different to most people's approach to most card games, but that's not to say it's right or wrong. If people enjoy playing it, let them

[@Romashka_Sov]

@@deejayf69 nah, when we played MtG with friends, when you start infinite combo you just say "do this, do that, repeat to infinity, i won". Except there are counterspells, and when your opp says "do this, do..." You say, "wait, wait, wait a second. HERE, i must stop you. You say do this, right? I say MANA LEAK, or i say LIGHTNING BOLT, or maybe DISMISS, or opp needs a creature on a table to target and i say PATH TO EXILE. Any responses?" This is how you play against those types of decks and have fun

[@commandercorner5575]

I've actually had someone tell me to play it out when I went infinite. I did, and everyone else thought he was a moron.

[@endertrot9998]

7:05 Thats... Thats not how Shudderwock works at all. The copies dont trigger their battleycry when summoned, only when cast from the hand. Plus, the order it triggers them in is random, meaning the Grumble one could go off before the Chain-Gang effect, making Murmuring Elemental necessary, as its what ensures that you get the 1 cost Shudderwock copies on your next turn without leaving it to chance.

[@AsyncLock]

Also Shudderwock isnt even a t1 deck and can be beaten by lots of other decks

[@endertrot9998]

True, it isn't, but how powerful it is isn't the point. The point is that it isn't fun to play against because there's no counter play other than killing them before Turn 10, and the animation times is just... NO.

[@Alex-ov3vp]

actually it is, because it completely destroys other control decks and has been played at every tournament by every player since its release, it just has a poor winrate because people dont know how to use it

[@ThatOneGuyJesse]

PirateRaider100 The Hearthstone twitter corrected this statement.

[@TheBloodypimp]

PirateRaider100 he was wrong. ^_^

[@Oceanatornowk]

I PLAY POT OF GREED. IT ALLOWS ME TO DRAW TWO CARDS FROM MY DECK.

[@MrThewhatguy]

HEY. THAT SHIT BANNED BOI

[@jeffismywaifu4093]

Isaac Kwon Never understood that card, thank god they explain it in every episode

[@BimdoeDoll]

BUT WHAT DOES IT DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@DestroAzureDx]

Isaac Kwon lies

[@stuntminer144]

Isaac Kwon What does that do again?

[@Aguila1138]

That purple pip on the back of the Magic card broke me.

[@howaboutnow1895]

Outjerked again. Thanks mtcj.

[@williamdrum9899]

It almost happened for real but was canned during development

[@dislexyc]

THAT IS NOT HOW SHUDDERWOCK WORKS! The copy's battlecry wont trigger, as it isnt played from your hand

[@dislexyc]

You can concede at any time during shudderwock, you are not forced to wait.

[@NaveTVG]

Then... What happened in the video? How did he end up with a million copies that drained health every turn if that’s not how it works?

[@FafliXx]

NaveTVG The way it works is that Grumble returns the copied Shudderwocks to your hand and makes them cost 1. Then the next turn you play all of those, which make more and return them to your hand. That way you play 10 Shudderwocks and potentially deal 60 damage while healing for 60 every turn.

[@bjarkerugsted7539]

the saronite battlecry makes a copy which does not cast its battlecry and the 7/7 elemental's battlecry returns the copy to your hand at the cost of 1, so the original shudder does not return the copies does

[@caelastraz1112]

There is a ton more deceptive information in this video

[@hrnekbezucha]

Surely that's not how the game actually works. _- checks the comments -_ No, that's really not how the game works.

[@ziltoidtheomniscient2398]

I mean, it's Blizzard so I wouldn't be totally surprised. I don't play card games, so I was relieved to hear in the comments that Hearthstone isn't as grim and predatory as he made it sound.

[@dawnmeier2999]

Battlecry is triggered when you play it from your hand, not when it copies itself

[@dawnmeier2999]

@Fluffynator that was when it was first released. Since then it was changed to what I mentioned. If you don't play the game, then do your research, so you know what you're talking about

[@dawnmeier2999]

@Fluffynator On a outdated video. The video is 11 months old, the game has changed. Source: I play the fucking game.

[@defectivesickle5643]

@@dawnmeier2999 It was never like the video to begin with. He just played multiple Shudderwocks.

[@LogogoFromKeron]

2018 Shudderwock: I can make this match last 30 minutes! 2019 Control Warrior: Huh, only 30 minutes?

[@danielevertsson7978]

Ah yes the 2 hour matches of control warrior mirrors i miss that

[@kaiserinjacky]

YuGiOh players: *laughs in 30 minute first-turn combos*

[@John_1-1_in_Japanese]

@@kaiserinjacky >30 minutes Y'all ain't seen my Final Countdown FTK deck yet

[@NeostormXLMAX]

TheMob Music a single yugioh turn takes more than 3 hearthstone games

[@pandemonium2536]

Laughs in tavern brawl with 30 trees of life

[@GarrettPetersen]

Here's the change to Shutterwock that I would make to avoid the infinite loop: When it duplicates a battlecry that says "duplicate this card" it should duplicate the other card, not Shutterwock.

[@venomousfrog5546]

And/or 'shutterwock cannot be duplicated'

[@mrh8142]

Or something like "copies of shudderwock cannot use battlecries"

[@modernkiwi6447]

Or just do the sane thing and give it a hard once per turn on its effect

[@someguywhocanfly]

I think it would make more sense to change the card with that effect to say "cards duplicated in this way cannot use their battlecry". You can get another Shudderwock but it won't trigger the loop

[@twgok3162]

@@mrh8142why it's turn 10 just make them time out of them going infinite doesn't end the game, like if u get infinite battle cries one of which causes damage I think u deserve to win the game the combo isn't that easy to set up

[@thelastcube.]

"Do you wanna sit thorough a half hour game that you know you're going to lose" Well I play LOL PVP so.... yeah

[@petervilla5221]

No that's different, in lol pvp you also have angry people berating constantly.

[@capableloop82]

/surrender and pray your team mates give up

[@marczwander893]

how about believe in them to make plays or try carrying yourself? Can we not act like pessimism is okay, thanks.

[@miningfordiamonds7978]

How about playing dota 2 so you can have voice chat with Russians, fun if you're either winning or loosing

[@Spoodermon]

yes but you can still keep playing and hoping to win in league unlike hearthstoen which you can only stare at the fucking screen for 1000 years

[@pendingname5083]

“Who would want to play a 30 minute game that you know your gonna lose?” Tf2 players: laughs in aimbot

[@rowanmanning1464]

Vac meds

[@Storiaron]

When I first played tf2 I just thought im extremely bad. I was even kicked a couple times from games, because, as i thought I was so bad. Turns out I was decent, it was just bots changing their name to mine and then I got kicked. Very nice stuff.

[@rowanmanning1464]

@@Storiaron That has happened to me too, but sometimes my friends just call v otes on me for a joke and they go through. Who needs enemies when I have these guys?

[@uki3890]

when have u ever experienced a 30 minute long game,out of my 1k hours ive never had a game last more then 20 minutes

[@Thomasluigi07]

@@uki3890 I played a 3 hour match of 2Fort. Best time ever spent.

[@TabiMainit]

"This video is about card games" More like "This video is about hearth stone

[@kwayke9]

The simple fact he didn't mention Firewall Dragon even tho literally EVERYONE in the community wanted it banned when this video was released is mind boggling. Also, Pokemon allowed you to draw your entire deck turn 1 when base set was legal

[@lentlemenproductions770]

*cough**cough* example *cough**cough*

[@Calebtraction]

Ruby Patterson none

[@CreeperPookie]

-You didn't end the quote... " (there's your end quote)-

[@lordvika2526]

Well it was more about what happens when card designers make a card that breaks a game. Since this was the newest time it happened that's why it was the main topic

[@ginorossi5871]

Well... Now we have The Demon Seed, so... I miss Shudderwock really much for that card. For the guys that don't play Hearthstone, The Demon Seed is a 1 mana card that always starts in your hand. Usually using a deck that goes around it makes you win at turn 5, an insane thing for the Hearthstone's standards.

[@arniwilson6093]

Banned in wild

[@williamdrum9899]

That sounds so unfair

[@randomguy8461]

The copies don't trigger their battlecries. That's like such a fundamentally huge detail that's so incredibly hard to miss that I'm honestly offended you made a video having missed this detail. Also, not as huge of an overlooked detail, but you actually *can* cue actions while shudderwock's animation is going. This isn't the case with some animations though, like brawl, but with shudderwock, it *is* the case. Also, if you don't want to sit through the animations waiting for you to lose, you don't have to, you can concede the moment shudderwock is played.

[@mr.alpaca2663]

Random Guy well he has the videos of it though which means it must have in the past

[@FloorFerret]

Ryan the simplest way to explain it is that battlecries only trigger if a minion is played from your hand. If it is played any other way, it usually called "summon" rather than "play". Summon doesn't trigger battlecries. So Chain Gangs ability is "summon a copy of itself". Thus any copies made will have buffs and any other card effects (like taunt), but will not trigger it's own battlecry. Otherwise you'd play one Chain Gang and fill the board. Playing Shudderwock is messy and chaotic...so I can understand why someone might think it'll work twice. But, fact is, it does not.

[@f.c.4549]

Oh god, I don't even think that the footage here is HIS footage because he has NO idea about the specifics of the game AT ALL

[@Cakatarn1]

That just means it basically delays it a turn then as they go to your hand at the end of your turn and then you just play them all for one cost next turn (as per his strategy) basically achieving the same effect.

[@itsyoogi7193]

And he forgot completely about dust and shudderwock not even being a top tier deck when witchwood was released lol

[@jalleFPS]

A couple things I want to add. 1. When you open card packs, you can get duplicates of anything below Legendary rarity (the orange gem in the middle means Legendary), and if you get duplicates, or just cards you never plan on using, you can disenchant them for dust, which can slowly be collected to create the card you want to use. Also there are ways to slowly accumulate packs and gold to buy packs without paying, but it is EXTREMELY slow. 2. At least in the last year or so, any time they nerf a card, they refund it's dust value to the owner of the card, and let you keep the card too. Which means you can keep the card if you still want to use it, and also use that dust to craft a card of the same rarity, or multiple cards of less rarity. 3. Loved the video, and completely agree with it. Not disagreeing with you through these corrections, just wanted to clarify a couple things in case people get mad about something that Blizzard is quite good about trying to reduce the damage of. Your content is super consistent, and I have enjoyed every video I've seen from you since I found you.

[@Gromek999]

Also, the battlecry does not trigger again when Shudderwock is copied on the board (from the chain gang effect), that is why grumble is so important, because the sequence only happens again when played from your hand. In the video he says whenever it is copying itself it will do the whole thing over again but that's not quite true. Not that this fact changes much but just slight misinformation.

[@mynewaccount2361]

I was going to make the same comment as you. Despite the errors on explaining Shudderwock's one turn kill setup and omitting the nerf dust refund, the video's message doesn't really change. He even could have brought up the standard rotation (which essentially banishes old cards to a low-regulated game mode) to really make his point. Great video as always.

[@MACKS1313]

I was going to say the same thing. It’s possible that these additions just made the video a little too long so they got cut to slim things down

[@nekakagiggle]

Gromek999 Woah, nice seeing you here love your content man keep it up

[@soeren555]

Yeah you can tell that Austin is not the most hardcore gamer. Shudderwock is not a Tier 1 deck, has never been, just as almost all combo decks are. This is basically a noob rant packed into the high quality videos we are used to. :p

[@tupacshakur9295]

Things that are wrong with this video: 1. Hearthstone is not a TCG. You can not trade in this game! 2. Shudderwock never broke the game, you could just concede when the animation began and the game was over. 3. You dont have to buy 70$ Packs to get the card lol Just play the game, get some gold and dust and craft the card for free. 4. The battlecry will not activate when it's copied. Only if you play a card from your hand the battlecry will activate.

[@whenyouwalking]

Never knew Tupac was into this kinda stuff.

[@mikedoesthings5774]

5: shudderwock deck was strong for 2 weeks untill people figured how to outaggro this garbage deck

[@tribeofephraim5801]

Tupac Shakur this is all true

[@tonydantonio2607]

adding to your list 5. 6/6 is not a good stat line for a late game minion. 6. On release, shudderwock shaman had a 45% w/r. Even now has only a 49% w/r. 7. IN YOUR OPINION the combo wasn't fun to play. Just because you didn't have the patients to watch it doesn't mean other people wouldn't find it fun.

[@whatsupRay]

5. You can skip the animation by clicking/tapping the screen... so the whole part of the animation taking too long is misleading people.

[@brokenearth7079]

I think that the ability for developers to react to and fix problems with their games as they arise after publishing is a really great thing, but it also promotes the idea that you don't actually have to finish the game before you send it out. Another thing that makes some games still so loved after all this time is that they have glitches and bugs that can be exploited for whatever reason, but that's not a thing with modern games because devs will remove glitches if they don't like them. It would just be nice to not wonder what your game is going to be.

[@nobodybroda3826]

I know this is a year old but I wanna respond anyway, my worry is...well go back to an old game you love and look up glitches or some bug that you can exploit for infinite items or something. You played it legit as a kid and enjoyed it, now you go back and you play a whole other way, over powering everything or just doing something you weren't intended to! But now look at the modern market, those glitches get patched out, sacrificed to make the experience good for everyone else. Honestly it takes a bit of magic from those games and makes em bland pieces to consume and then toss, especially if its a niche thats often filled.

[@jeremywright9785]

To be fair Blizzard usually gives full dust refunds of cards that they nerf, so you can still swap it out for a card of equal value

[@captainthrall]

That is a very good point

[@masondunn1320]

captainthrall however they nerfed the rare card giving people a deck that doesn’t work and 200 dust

[@geraldhng8774]

Still wasted 60 dolhairs

[@mateuszbez516]

@@geraldhng8774 you dont have to spend that much, actually hearthstone is free to play so you can get your deck free, it just takes longer. You also dont pay 60 dollars for a single card, you pay for a set amount of packs that contain different cards, some of which may change in the future but its your responsibility to take that into account while buying packs

[@tobiaspause1775]

@@mateuszbez516 sadly they didnt do that this week. All in all they neved cards i owned worth 3400 dust, but i didnt get anything. (same with other players i guess) So refund only happens if hall of fame is involved it seems.

[@LuisGonzalez-kw1py]

There are alot of errors in the explanation of the shudderwock combo

[@lilyliao9521]

yes

[@cashnelson2306]

like, to the point that I wonder if he's actually played any of these cards lol

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

Counter point: Anyone who knows Shudderwock well enough doesn't need this video, and anyone who doesn't probably won't pick up Hearthstone after watching him uninstall it.

[@TheLastScoot]

+Josh Brown Yes, but what's the point in lying about how it works? If we know that he's willing to lie in order to make something worse than it actually is, how do we know he doesn't do that with all his videos?

[@gracezb1]

i’ve never played before, can you explain it?

[@tobias9616]

7:00 actually it doesn't work like that. For a battlecry to be activated it has to be played from a player hand, thats why Grumble is part of the combo. The Saronite Chain Gang is just for board and more copies 1 mana in hand aftes using Grumble battlecry

[@Ricky_Evans1611]

First

[@giocosovelasco]

"What happens when card games break?" *_"I don't know, you broke them. You can't play them anymore."_*

[@RGC_animation]

*rips Shudderwock in half

[@just2good]

Ah, it was fun seeing you talk about the nostaglic Catapult Turtle combo for a bit

[@FlushedNoob]

Yu gi oh minifig series when?

[@TheGamerThatKills]

just2good I remember seeing that combo at a regionals for the first time. I was tempted to just sit up and drop right then.

[@marcellokuler]

Oh hello just

[@flemes9615]

Bruv? You watch him too?

[@sheevscandybar4980]

just2good what are you doing here

[@philllllllll]

So everybody here is basically complaining about how you didn't accurately portray Hearthstone but I honestly don't give a shit about that. What I find to be a shame is the premise of the video, "What happens when you break a card game?" turned out to just be a 10 minute long explanation of one specific combo in one card game. I'd LOVE to hear more developed thoughts on that and how if affects a game, it's economy, playerbase, tournaments, future set design, etc. Honestly there's potential for SO MUCH interesting discussion there, but you basically just skimmed the surface to talk about this one combo.

[@kushmanjr69]

Flying Toaster that wasn't his goal with making the video. Either him or one of his friends got buttdevestated by shudderwock so they decided to lie about how it works to shit on Hearth stone

[@markmarkson4455]

Flying Toaster There's no discussion, Austin is just complaining

[@crypticmrchimes]

SAME! Magic the Gathering has a LOT of interesting stories about broken combos, how they affected the player base & the game itself, and what they did to recover and make sure it never happened again.

[@Zak_Hooi_Tom]

And the worst part is that this video still gets a 3:1 ratio in likes versus dislikes... -.-

[@kylekafka6636]

Yeah I was also expecting a very different video

[@percyvile]

Battlecrys only trigger off played minions, not off copies like chain gang

[@percyvile]

Likewise, generally every nerf in HS generally results in the dust value of that card being refunded to players who own that card. Without removing that card from their account; you didn't touch on dust when saying the shudderwock card was $60 which is missleading.

[@percyvile]

Idk, i don't want to tell you how to do your job but in this instance it seems like you should have had a pal check your script before finishing this video.

[@smilinprophet1842]

Eli Jone he literally shows that the battlecry is activated by the copies in the video.

[@jacobmorrison838]

at 7:00 , he states that the copy from chain gang also cast the battlecries, but it doesnt. The combo actual has a 50% chance of failing. The real idea of the combo is you want chain gang to trigger, then Grumble. (the order in which the battlecries trigger is random) so if Grumble triggers first then chain gang, the combo failed and now you have a shitty control deck. You could do what he did in the video and play Grumble after Shutterwock, but if the other player has are crowd control and kills the shutterwocks before your next turn, you also failed the combo.

[@BasicSpencer]

Smilin’ Prophet But that's not actually what's happening. The copies actually don't do anything when they first enter the battlefield, because they battlecries only activate when a minion comes into play from your hand. Your first shudderwock typically does 6 damage, summons 1-2 copies of itself, then returns it and the copies to your hand. The thing is that the NEXT shudderwock you play will repeat the battlecry of the last one, and so on. In the video he's just showing the 2nd or 3rd shudderwock he played.

[@alexbrangan2885]

When Magic started experiencing a slew of bans in Standard this year, I immediately thought back to this video, as thanks to the pandemic, Standard is now played exclusively on Magic Arena. And on Arena, your cards are not physical goods. They can't be traded or sold. They can't even be dusted like the ones in Hearthstone. The only compensation the devs give you is wild cards of equal rarity to the cards that were banned. But what about all the other rare cards that synergized with it that WEREN'T banned, and are now powerless? Players essentially have no choice but to start their collections over again. It's not an unsolvable conundrum, but it lays bare the dubious economics underlying lootbox-style monetization of digital card games to those who may not have done the math beforehand, or were too invested in the game to care. It's the reason games like this are starting to draw the attention of lawmakers in some countries as they brush up against anti-gambling regulations.

[@thulegezelschap5884]

If they want me to buy digital the code must be in a physical pack or I want cardboard cards that can be redeemed I play magic off and on and buy good cards when I do When I quit I sold them and either broke even or made a nice profit off the duals With digital you throw away your money When they stop support your game is gone I can teach my grandchildren magic if I just keep a few binders

[@sblack53]

@@thulegezelschap5884 I mean Magic Online at least has complete set redemption for new standard sets

[@thulegezelschap5884]

@@sblack53 true but you need a full set first. I buy singles now and then when building a deck and so far everytime I got bored of MTG I made a masse proffit when selling. Singles almost always make me money.. packs are almost always a loss so I skip those unless it is a new release

[@demolisherman1763]

I feel like WOTC feels a little remorse for elderaine and the past three sets have been pretty fairly balanced. So despite not playing standard I think standard 2022 will be pretty healthy.

[@shadethenovice]

As a regular Hearthstone player, I feel like this video isn't really providing the whole story on Shudderwock. Regardless of the misinformation at 7:03 (You need to individually play each Shudderwock for multiple effects of its Battlecry, Saronite Chain Gang alone will not do that), there is also the fact that even though this seemingly impossible to beat combo existed, it wasn't a very good deck when it first released. The combo simply was too slow to assemble for it to gain any leeway, and the deck was actually rarely played for quite a while. Of course that doesn't mean it wasn't frustrating to play against, but the card wasn't necessarily broken, it simply was unfun due to the nature of animations in Hearthstone. If the card didn't have any animations at the time, it would have been a completely fine card. Also, the "nerf" it then received didn't change how the card worked except for very fringe cases and for speeding up the animation speed. Nowadays Shudderwock decks are in a pretty healthy spot tbh. They have good and bad matchups, and while their power level may still need to be tuned, they don't come even close to breaking the game. There are cards and combos that can break a card game, and while Shudderwock may have appeared to do so, it still was a pretty balanced card for the game.

[@Shadowhisky]

*Stealer of souls warlock is watching this comment and laughing at the possibility to reach turn 9*

[@fuscello]

And still if a card is nerfed you now get full dust value

[@OnEiNsAnEmOtHeRfUcKa]

7:04 ...No? That's not how it works at all! Battlecry only triggers on cards you play directly from the hand, not minions that are summoned or put into play through other effects! If that were how it worked, just playing a single Saronite Chain Gang would fill your entire board with Taunt Minions! This is incredibly misrepresentative... You also can't play Murmuring and Shudderwock in the same turn unless there's mana generation or cost reduction involved, since the pair costs 11 Mana, and you ARE able to perform actions before an animation is complete, because the game processes faster than it animates. Not only that, but your opponent doesn't even have to wait for you to finish because the option to concede is literally right there! I'm starting to wonder if you've even played Hearthstone at all...

[@obediah2031]

Dexxus i was just about to type the same thing

[@crynon612]

That's what I thought and I wouldn't have believed him if he hadn't included gameplay footage.

[@lidborn1300]

While you are correct it still creates the same issues of having tons of animations to sit trough and then the game is over.

[@minibluepumpkin]

The way you do the murmuring combo is by playing murmuring and grumble on the same turn

[@alm9264]

I'm beginning to believe that he just watch footage of a shudderwock deck, he's so wrong about most of his points in this video. It's really frustrating

[@fishum6483]

What? No. When shudderwock uses the chain gang battlecry, it *summons* another, not plays meaning that the copy's battlecry will not activate.

[@seanmckenzie3877]

I was thinking about that. Chain gang's copy doesn't summon another chain gang so why the hell does shudderwocks happen forever? Makes no sense.

[@thomasphilp7887]

no it doesnt lol battlecry only triggers once, chain gang doesent repeat the battlecry

[@ProfessorZtar]

Austin's explanation of Shudderwock's OTK combo is worded incorrectly. What he should have said was:"... Next, the chain gang battle cry activates, making a new Shudderwock. Then Gumble's battle cry activates, putting that new Shudderwock into your hand for just 1 mana. Now you can play Shudderwock infinitely, up to 10 times per turn. Each time you do, you deal 6 damage to your opponent, and heal for 6 damage. So, on the turn after the first Shudderwock, you will be able to deal 60 damage and heal for 60 HP by playing those 1 mana Shudderwocks 10 times. This is where it gets out of hand, as the animations take up a ton of time..." The way he explains in the video suggests that the new copy of Shudderwock would play their battle cry as soon as they got summoned, which is not the case.

[@seanmckenzie3877]

+Zunde Esteed But that's not Shudderwocks effect that's Shudderwocks battlecry which doesn't trigger on summon but only when played. The fact that Chain Gang doesnt make infinite copies of itself is proof of this.

[@Greeblio]

well 1 copy that bounces to your hand will activate, also coincidentally activating all the previous shudders' battlecries.... meaning... infinite

[@grotesquewombat]

I was about to leave the video and then I saw that it had 40k dislikes, tf? I'm legit so confused.

[@smarthur5150]

One of the examples in the video, was a complete misunderstanding of how the card and how the game works, and like 30 seconds of research would show you that.

[@xrefed]

@@smarthur5150 which one

[@GabrielAraujo-uj9ng]

@@xrefed first of all, you dont have to pay 70 dollars to get that card. you can craft cards using dust, which you can get by just playing the game. it isn't pay to win, just pay to get things faster. second, you can also disenchant a card, usually for 1/4 of its dust (changes a bit for each rarity), but whenever blizzard nerfs a card, you are allowed to get full dust value when disenchanting it, which invalidates his arguments on the end of the video. the only true fact on this video is the fact that shudderwock was indeed kinda broken, but not as broken as a turn 1 lethal like the one in magic the gathering. basically everything else he says is just false

[@JBBrickman]

@@GabrielAraujo-uj9ng The casual player would have to know all these things for it to help. Heck I played TF two for over 1000 hours before I even knew there was a crafting system so I don’t blame the guy

[@Amir-xc2th]

shudderwock players OMEGALUL

[@chronos3717]

“I can’t believe things like this still happen years later” Firewall Dragon much?

[@jackholmes7962]

The Pixel Harlequin Konami BAN

[@baileydombroskie3046]

Also u forgot isolde and needlefiber. Im kinda suprised isolde is still legal and well needlefiber will still be alive till 2021 at least, at least i expect that out of konami.

[@AsbestosFilter]

The reason farfa go through therapy

[@baileydombroskie3046]

@@AsbestosFilter ya farfa needed at least 2 years of therapy after the release of firewall. Lol

[@ArcticTehWeirdo]

FiRE WaLl dRagON? MY dArK MaGIcIaN CAn beAt IT!

[@arsarma1808]

Kinda a hard video for me to get through. Spoilers, Shudderwok is not a broken card in the game. It's a competitive deck, but isn't extraordinarily powerful or unbeatbable. A lot of the times it can't kill the enemy in one turn, and the animation was sped up. Oh, and by the way THERE ARE COMBOS IN THIS GAME THAT KILL YOU IN ONE TURN! Velen Priest, Antonidas Mage, Malygos Druid. These also have long animations for the enemy as well. Then there are slower, more aggravating and consistent decks that way worse, like Taunt Druid, which uses a non-interactive combo to fill the board with huge valuable minions, after spending the whole time after sitting behind taunts and building up armor, and then they do it again! And again!

[@jacobprout5097]

Bump

[@Sueshe]

Yeah I love Austin but it's clear he doesn't play. People felt like this first month and it became very clear that it's honestly balanced

[@hidood5th]

Its not that its unbalanced, its just extremely unfun to play against and made Hearthstone a slog. Other unfun cards have been changed before, so it makes sense that Shudderwock would

[@arsarma1808]

Sueshe yeah that's my thought on it. Shudder seemed op but now there are so many decks that compete the game almost seems too balanced.

[@Calvin_Coolage]

Sueshe Maybe that's the perspective of this video? That perspective of when it first came out and people felt it was OP?

[@Markmata]

You're wrong about Hearthstone. 1 - You don't need to get lucky to get the card you want, you can disenchant some cards you don't want for dust and use that dust to "buy" the card you want 2 - The Shudderwock copy from Saronite Chain Gang doesn't activate it's battlecry, since battlecries only happen when the creature is played from your hand, not when it's summoned by card effects. 3 - Shudderwock's battlecries happen in a random order, so you showed the wrong combo. You needed to show that the combo also needs Murmuring Elemental and it has to have its cost reduced by Fire Plume Harbinger, so you can play Murmuring and Shudderwock in the same turn, guaranteeing the combo. 4 - You didn't mention that when Blizzard nerfs a card, they make it so you can disenchant it for full dust value, which means you can pretty much trade it for a card of equivalent rarity. I haven't played Hearthstone in a very long time, but I've kept up with it. You really misrepresented the game.

[@DuBstep115]

And blizzard gave shudderwock for FREE to anyone. you only need 1 legendary/1600 dust to play this deck, everything else is just common cards.

[@3xquatro]

Please, someone print this and show to this guy saying a lot of nonsesnce.

[@cheekibreeki6255]

my exact thoughts this guy is a fool

[@braxtonmcmullen-adair2410]

Marco Mata the last 3 points you have are correct but if you don't want to spend money on the game you ABSOLUTELY have to get lucky. I've spent 0 dollars on the game since release and I've only ever made 2 complete meta decks. It takes a God damn year to craft any legendary and most meta decks run at between 3 and 6 of them.

[@jimjonjim9664]

Marco Mata not to mention compare shudderwock decks to other decks. The most popular shudderwock deck has a 49.06% winrate, can be inconsistent, and games take really long. While the most popular odd paladin deck has a 55.46% winrate, is consistent, and games can finish often before the mana cap is hit.

[@fredgerd5811]

Shudderwock was the greatest hearthstone card ever printed and I won't hear otherwise. I made a deck that filled people's decks with weasels and it was beautiful.

[@maomaeramnon3870]

Yeah also there were combos or cards way worse than shudder over the years. This guy got it all wrong and is just salty about the wock lol

[@thefireofthefox1]

1. Don't act like you know the game when you don't. 2. You don't need to spend hundreds of dollars to get one card, you can just craft it. 3. Battlecries don't activate when summoned, they activate when played. 4. Shudderwock is only an average deck and has never been very good. 5. Many other decks have made people concede at the start, like pirate warrior. 6. When a card is nerfed you are compensated by letting you craft a new card of the same rarity instead.

[@Mrfanofsonic]

TheFireOfTheFox1 Huehuehue Maybe he's just misinformed and genuinely thought this was correct information? Don't be such a butthurt nerd.

[@thefireofthefox1]

If he's misinformed that just proves point #1. He's literally knocking it before he tries it.

[@LizzyThatB]

Dream Drop Sora When someone spreads lies about something you love you would be "butthurt"

[@3322pie]

Point number 5 is further proof that Hearthstone is a bad game. ;)

[@Andrews13channel]

Nah

[@MrOliverLJ]

So much wrong with this video. Over half the things you say are not true. Do you even play the game? 5:00 Nope, you can just craft the card. 6:55 The copied Shudderwok will NOT activate again, you'll need to have played Grumble before this, so you return it to hand and that is only if your Saronite Chain gang goes off before Grumble, otherwise the combo wont work. 7:28 Okay, so even if your turn ends, the battlecry does not. The battlecry will ALWAYS play out until its over. 7:50 How are you going to play Murmuring Elemental for 2 mana and then cast Shudderwok for 9 mana. You only have 10 mana to work with. This will only work if you're going second, and somehow kept the Coin. Not impossible, but very unlikely. 9:32 No you're not. As you said, both players know who is going to win, so if you're the losing player, just surrender/concede. 10:25 It is so far from game breaking. It's not even THAT good. It's not like you'll win every time. This deck has a hard time against aggro decks. 11:11 If Blizzard nerfs a card it'll give you a full refund on dust. Most people buy it with dust anyways, so this was essentialy a free card while it lasted I honestly thing you should have done some more homework before releasing this video. You obviously don't know how the card/hearthstone works.

[@penchev2843]

I was thinking the same things as i watched . Give yourself a pat on the back

[@nathaniel582]

Thought the same things, except that playing murmuring elemental before shudderwock can be easy because you can lower it's cost, can't remember the name of the minion though

[@ethan5259]

That turn 1 otk turtle can not be play around at all,but this can.Sometimes you will just die before turn 9.This is really far from broken.

[@shadowspark]

You deserve like 200 more likes than you have for this. I can't believe I had to scroll down just to get details about what's wrong with the video.

[@IfeeTR]

You can make the murmuring 1 mana if you play murmuring+grumble in a single turn, however the guy on the video is playing it for 2 mana lul

[@noobzhang]

hey austin i like your videos a lot but there are a lot of things i think you should have fact checked in this video. shudderwock was described incorrectly, and you declined to mention how blizzard refunds nerfed cards. it feels like you ripped on hearthstone unnecessarily without enough research. idk maybe i'm just too defensive about a game i've spent way too much money on :/

[@mankillerleberecht]

Nah you're right dude

[@trevorrogers95]

Leland Zhang Yes you are. That's exactly what you are doing.

[@josephsulaiman9959]

Trevor Rogers chill

[@trevorrogers95]

mom's spaghetti Never.

[@hydr4561]

I remember when I was a kid I had a white dragon deck with blue eyes and I gently put a face down monster and a trap card and ended my turn so my friend had a pendulum deck and he summoned 3 monsters of 3000 attack and that negated all the effects of my cards and still dealt piercing damage. It was frustrating. And what did we learn from that? if you don't win, appeal with them or buy the most appealing deck you find.

[@salamantics]

In master duel those pendulum decks are irritating. If I make it past the 5th then I typically win, but the game is “draw the exact right cards on the first turn or you lose because your opponent definitely did”

[@mattiguess8094]

@@salamantics drytons are worse

[@strangevol5264]

Endymion? It's... eh.

[@jmurray1110]

I mean you were playing what sounded like a goats era blue eyes deck so that is kind of on you Besides blue eyes has a piercing damage card with chaos max dragon plus it’s double piercing it’s bad and a noob trap but it’s there

[@tomsawyer1991]

can we stop calling hearthstone a trading card game and call it a collectible card game instead? unless they've added a feature i have not yet seen, we are not able to trade cards

[@Hieronymus-Pseudonymous]

It's just a "legacy" term - that's what this kind of tabletop game was originally known as. You do often hear people say CCG instead of TCG, though.

[@nspiregaming8498]

both actually mean the same thing, but back in the day, I believe wizards patented the phrase, trading card game, so that other companies couldnt use it for their card games, so they started saying collectable card game instead, but the two phrases are literally the same thing

[@tristandk96]

!NSPIRE Gaming are you sure? Because pokemon cards are called the pokemon TCG?

[@Hieronymus-Pseudonymous]

The Pokémon TCG started at Wizards.

[@Hieronymus-Pseudonymous]

According to Wikipedia, the terms are interchangeable: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectible_card_game It seems there's never been a term invented to specify a TCG-type game in which you can't actually trade.

[@StRanGerManY]

I am sorry, but you are wrong. Battlecry doesn't trigger when shudderwock summons a copy of himself. So, the first time shudderwock played, there will be just 1 life drinker battlecry. However, its when shudderwock played second time we get double battlecry - from original lifedrinker and from the first shudderwock. You are right in the regard that every consequent shudderwock effect will be greater, and overwhelm the ooponent at the end. Hovewer, it didnt break the game. It turned to be not not the best deck, not even among top tier ones.

[@TheBloodypimp]

Alexander Kolchev you are wrong too. Shudderwock doesn't duplicate shudderwock battlecry. Either murmiring elemental was played or multiple bounced shudderwocks bounced a turn before were played.

[@Phatnaru0002]

Yeah, you're wrong too.

[@matejfrnka8194]

When shudderwock duplicates itself using Saronite Chain Gang' battlecry it will NOT trigger it's battlecry again because Chain Gang also doesnt activate it's battlecry over and over again when it gets duplicated.

[@edkrassenstein5534]

Also the deck wasn't even competitive before it was nerfed. It was literally a meme deck 2 weeks after the expansion came out. Cool concept for a video, but at least be real about the situation.

[@Phatnaru0002]

The guy got so much wrong about the card that I don't believe for a second that he actually played a game with Shudderwock.

[@koatam]

He also forgot to mention that the battlecry cards that Shudderwock copies have to be played in a certain order for the combo to work out.

[@galatic-wyvern2993]

@@koatam NOT TRUE! the battecry effects were in a random order, in order to combat this mutiple ccopy effects were sometimes used, and it was recommended to play BOTH saronites in order to reduce the odds of getting grumble first.

[@alfred-pc9sb]

@@galatic-wyvern2993 Also why you duplicate the battlecry beforehand, so much wrong in this vid.

[@snowboarder4700]

There’s another game that’s been broken called cardfight vanguard with a. Deck type called Kagero. When certain cards are used it’s essentially a one hit k.o.

[@akiradkcn]

uhhh

[@cra.b5761]

god i fucking hate kagero

[@lachlank.8270]

All card games probably have some kind of degenerate combo unless they're boring and completely balanced

[@bentatman6031]

It seems quite obvious that he doesn’t know completely what he is saying about Hearthstone

[@coot33]

Patches the Pirate is the card that broke the game shudderwock is not even close.

[@miningfordiamonds7978]

coot33 hearthstone was broken from start (sylvanas, Ragnaros, jaraxxus, leeroy Jenkins, etc)

[@1mgenius217]

MiningForDiamonds Notice how most of those cards you mentioned got banned. They dont even ban cards often but they new that those cards where too much. Edit: How in the world is Jaraxxus OP? That card saw mediocre play at best and is currently obsolete due to Bloodreaver Guldan (which is the truely broken card)

[@kieranmq05]

1mGenius eh, saw quite a lot of play in Renolock when it was still a thing

[@1mgenius217]

But a class card seeing consistent play doesnt mean its broken, just that its decent. It was a legendary that could fit in any deck as long as it wasnt taking up a spot for a key card. The amount of cards in the game like that is pretty high so he isnt crazy unique or powerful. *Not to mention that in a Reno deck you tend to be desperate for cards anyways so its obviously a consistent pick

[@FryEmUp]

Oof, in hearthstone, battlecries don't trigger on summoned minions... Explanation is kinda messed up.

[@fredthewreckyt]

so you finally found this video... ;)

[@4evermilkman]

That's irrelevant to the point that there is a broken way to win in every major card game

[@MrTh0ll]

Hey Fry been watching your pvz heroes videos.

[@matthewreid7814]

Didn’t they originally allow it and later disable it without telling people?

[@joerymertens7048]

@@matthewreid7814 no it never worked that way

[@zazzpzazz]

I find it amazing how somebody with such a profound understanding of cards games.could have absolutly no idea how hearthstone works

[@MaxSnowDude]

Can you explain it to me? Is the combo fake

[@nathaniel817]

@@MaxSnowDude the combo did happen but it's edited and he incorrectly described it, the part about spending 60$ or more cuts out important information like the fact that you can craft cards by turning the bad cards info magic dust, and after a card gets nerfed you get a full refund of it and can craft any card of the same rarity. For the combo itself he claims that when a card gets summoned it triggers it's battlecry, but that's completely untrue. It only triggers the battlecry when you play it directly from your hand, so the saronite chain gang battlecry doesn't repeat the shudderwock battlecry infinitely. Also the deck itself was extreme weak, required tons of setup, took 2 turns late game, and was easily countered. It was more of a meme than an actual deck. And again you can concede and cancel all animations, so the "wait for 30 minutes for it to finish" is blatantly false.

[@memegamer20]

One of my favorite infinites of all time in PTCG was Dialga GX in Expanded. For people who don't know, Pokemon GX have a GX attack that is essentially once per game. Keyword: essentially. In Cosmic Eclipse, the set introduced Misty and Lorelei, where if you discard cards from your hand, your Water Pokemon GX can use their GX attack again, which essentially can lead to an infinite if you do it turn after turn. So, Dialga GX's GX attack deals a bunch of damage, and, wait for it... LET'S YOU HAVE ANOTHER TURN. So make Dialga Water type with a Vaporeon, and if you're lucky (you have to flip a coin for M+L), you win the game. It is stupid and fun, and is obviously why Dialga is banned.

[@saphiriathebluedragonknight375]

Dialga? I would have thought Palkia would have been used. Interesting.

[@dawidshakestheworld]

I feel like this is clickbaity, it's clear you don't know how the combo works, also I've not lost vs Shudderwock in ages, it's just not fast enough. The difference between this and the turtle combo in yu gi oh is Shudder combo will be on turn 9 at the earliest ( turn 10 if you want to be more consistent with murmering) and you need to have had all the pieces and not died during the process, whereas the yu gi oh one is on turn 1, there's no counterplay.

[@micaelgarcia1576]

True, I won against a shudderwock shaman with some dog crap basic deck; just a bit of tempo and that was all needed... I've never played against a true aggro deck (meta tier), but I would think that 9+ mana combos are just impossible to do against them.

[@alishavanheek]

Why would you make clickbait of cardgames when, if you want views, there are a million things more interesting to the mass..?

[@1mgenius217]

The problem is a lot of his complaints were so blatantly wrong that it seems that he was incorrect in order to exaggerate his point.

[@etnamode9823]

shudderwock has made a huge resurgence after the nerfs, since it's a control meta. I agree with you though, it's not close enough to make a comparison.

[@pleaserespond3984]

Yeah, the Yu-Gi-Oh one is basically Druid in Blood Magic tavern brawl... Edit: and that got "nerfed" with the 15-second turn 1 time limit, though obviously not on purpose.

[@mitchellolenchuk7086]

"Do you wanna spend half an hour playing a game you know you're gunna lose" sounds like League of Legends

[@premejon8300]

Mitchell Olenchuk Card games without Player autonomy is the most backwards design concept ever. MTG, Yugioh and at one point even Pokémon all had or still have ways to interact with your opponent on THEIR turn. This allows both players to have an equal amount of autonomy allowing them to FEEL as if they can win. Now, current games like HS and the Pokémon TCG have no real forms of interactions with your opponent. You just have to sit and watch them do WHATEVER they want with 0 drawbacks.

[@deejayf69]

With that mindset you are bound to lose

[@JBirdBobbyJ]

This

[@charlesquinton9127]

@@deejayf69 When you're in a match of League and every teammate is feeding by the first fifteen minutes so you call a surrender but no one else wants to, this is basically the situation you have to watch unfold as the only possible way to make a comeback is to hunker down and play defensively until you've farmed enough to become relevant again.

[@deejayf69]

@@charlesquinton9127 well no the only thing you can do to comeback from a huge gold deficit in modern league of legends is to wait until your opponents make mistakes and wouldn't you know it that's usually what happens as most people aren't good at the game. So really you should stop ffing so much. This has been an issue with League for quite some time now

[@majorhavoc5490]

*The Shudderwock combo has been fully nerfed, Saronite Chain gang has been changed to: “Battlecry: Summon another Saronite Chain Gang”*

[@suemiller8386]

Imagine of we find a workaround

[@majorhavoc5490]

Sue Miller well they nerfed it again so that even if you manage to pull off the loop the summoned copies’ battlecries won’t go off.

[@LegendLeaguer]

@@majorhavoc5490 that never happened, OP misrepresented how battlcries work. They're not like ETBs from Magic, more like cast triggers

[@majorhavoc5490]

JayofLegend *thonk*

[@nezziatrollminer493]

Major Havoc We use Dopplegangster now.

[@sgater5213]

I think it a fundamental flaw of all trading card games, that they will break eventually. The publisher always want to make new cards and they will always be (slightly) better than the last to encourage players to buy them. Over time not only get the cards stronger, they usually get more complex and since there are more and more cards overall, the numbers of interaction and combo-possibilities gets exponentially more complex. So sooner or later all trading card games would break, thats why we have ban/forbidden lists. For Yugioh in particular: It lacks a gatekeeping resource. In the past this resource was "time" as you needed to draw your card from you deck and you were limited in your summons per turn. Nowadays you deck is pretty much completly accessible at turn1, special summon is more common than normal summon and your GY, ExtraDeck and even your (face-up) banish stack are extensions of your hand. The thing that actually stops your FTKs are hand-traps in your opponents hand, which are more or less obligatory.

[@eavyeavy2864]

Not relevant to discussion. Only your narrative

[@GoldGioGio]

@@eavyeavy2864 He pretty much described power creep and how it works, the thing is that it IS an intrinsic part of TCGs

[@OrdemDoGraveto]

I'm sure someone has corrected this already, but just in case: The copies Shudderwock summons don't trigger any aditional effect, as they don't activate their battlecries.

[@midxtimer1541]

Panon Corvo da Tempestade how can that be so if we're watching it happen in the video?

[@OrdemDoGraveto]

Battlecry is only triggered when you PLAY the card, not when it's summoned by any other means. If that were the case, then the original minion would also do this. It would summon a copy of itself, then the copy would trigger it's battlecry and summon a copy of itself and so on. That's not the case.

[@santtu1875]

facts

[@patrickcosgrove5256]

But at 7:26 he literally showed it happening, right? What was going on at that point in the video?

[@santtu1875]

google heartstone battlecry mechanic and you will learn how it works

[@walkingman4889]

"The Digimon nerds, but I mean, come on" 10/10

[@MYG]

When a card gets changed you are able to disenchant it for it's craft rarity value. While this system is not perfect it allows you to craft a new legendary if you want.

[@GrapplingHookJones]

Dylan B | No. It is $30 to get a good amount of card packs. Those card packs give you 5 cards and therefore 5 chances at unpacking a legendary card. Duplicates can also be disenchanted for dust in order to craft specific cards that you want.

[@Luminalmvm]

That's still not mentioning that you can get packs by just playing, if you play long enough, you'll always be able to get enough dust to craft the card you want, that's what I did in a couple of weeks

[@Tom-yp5zw]

They also do alot of events like the time event (cant remember proper name) and the fire festival event which is on now giving people double gopd for all quests. I got 500gold in the space of an hour.

[@sus425]

Dylan B well as grappling hook jones explained that’s not really true but even if it was it’s what all card games do

[@SimonJKed]

No, if you disenchant a Legendary rarity card you get 1/4th its value in dust.

[@rhysofsneezingdragon1758]

Reminds me of when magic the Gathering arena crashed because of the infinite polyraptor. In summary, there was a card called forerunner of the empire. When it was on the field, it could make any dinosaur take one damage. It could also send a dinosaur to the top of the deck, so you would draw it next turn The dinosaur polyraptor made a new version of itself when it was damaged. Someone would play forerunner, bring polyraptor to the top, draw and play it, make it take one, copy it, make the copy take one, make a copy, and infinitum

[@God-ch8lq]

its super janky tho polyraptor is a 6drop iirc

[@rhysofsneezingdragon1758]

@@God-ch8lq 8 drop

[@God-ch8lq]

@@rhysofsneezingdragon1758 right, havnt played with dinos except colossal dreadmaw for a whilr also crashing arena is easy, more then 256 tokens and the game warns you

[@TheHaloGamer]

The part where you talk about obtaining Shudderwock is insanely misleading to non-Hearthstone players. You can enchant cards using dust which you can obtain from winning in arena, your end of season chest, and disenchanting cards. You'll get a decent amount of gold cards you can disenchant for the same amount cards of that rarity are worth, unless it's a common in which case you get even more. The game, however, has the opposite of a pay wall. When you first start are basically boned unless either you grind monotonously or drop money until you can get what you need to make a meta deck (this can range anywhere between $20-$100 based on your luck), however, once you have a good deck you can easily support yourself as long as you stay somewhat active and obtain multiple decks. Also, if you only play standard (which I personally recommend), your old cards will become useless and after disenchanting them you should have more than enough to enchant a few new decks.

[@micaelgarcia1576]

I personally am an only-arena, with my only objective (as a FTP in standard) to get Cho lorewalker (the guy that gives spells to the opposite party) and have fun with it... And I still have like... 2000+ gold and 1800+ dust... I am thoroughly according with you, thanks for taking the time to write these things.

[@8bit_pineapple]

Hey Micael. I'm also an arena player, my plan is to craft Whizbang the Wonderful when he comes out in 2 weeks. I think you should consider that too. The way he'll work is you put only him in your deck then at the start of the game you'll get a random deck & class from the deck recipes (18 total). Blizzard will update the recipes and they'll likely be a deck for each class using legendaries from the new expansion. If you're good at hearthstone, but free to play, getting him will probably be a decent idea. You'll have 18 standard decks to learn, get to play with a bunch of legendaries you don't have... and in the long term, you'll get to play new decks in other future expansions with him. I have Lorewalker Cho... and I think you'll be disappointed xD ... trying to play fun decks on standard doesn't go well :/ you'll probably just get 1 spell from Lorewalker.

[@mr.paperbag771]

I have grinded and crafted 4 meta decks this expansion alone

[@micaelgarcia1576]

Thanks for the advice; although I only play fun decks and don't consider the pre-made decks to be fun, I might as well do that for the randomness factor.

[@DarkJusticeMetal]

I'm a casual Hearthstone player and I play other card games competitively. Factual errors with Hearthstone mechanics aside, this is a poorly constructed video with weak arguments.

[@AugustusCaesar9464]

DarkJusticeMetal and the information is wrong

[@punk105]

DarkJusticeMetal no you're just an idiot

[@jimpachi98]

Is this a troll?

[@Rammkard]

DarkJusticeMetal I was thinking the same thing

[@tegancb2]

This video was good, trying to explain hearthstone, explain how it differs from other card games, and explain how an entire deck functions and why it's so frustrating, all in under 15 minutes is incredibly difficult and I think this video does as good as a job you possibly could

[@ohDangg]

>says battlecries are the most simple thing in the game >incorrectly describes how battlecries work

[@restlessfrager]

LOL

[@nabarl9198]

no that's not the point, he explained battlecrys correctly up to the 7:00 mark. Here he explains that when creating a copy of itself, the copys Battlecry triggers aswell. That however is not the case because a battlecry only triggers when a card is played from your hand, not when it is summoned by another effect.

[@restlessfrager]

Merloss No the game describes battlecries right, it's Austin, he's in way over his head in this one, either that or he misinterpreted the entire game for the sake of making a clickbaity video that falsely represents everything he talks about.

[@gandalftheantlion]

Nabarl but didn’t he show us a game where this effect is taking place? Like 25 min later...

[@nabarl9198]

@Gandalf no, while he does show us how he plays the combo, he doesnt show us everything that is happening, instead he only shows us small portions of it, so you cant fully see how everything plays out. Basically the combo plays around getting a copy of shudderwock back to your hand wich then costs 1 mana, so that you can play 10x shudderwock on the next turn and 10 times 3 (life drinker effect) or even 10 times 6 is enough to otk your opponent. That being said the combo has a chance to go horribly wrong if your grumble effect (return the minions at the cost of 1) is triggered before shudderwock creates a copy of it self. The only way to guarantee that that is going to happen is by playing the murmuring elemental before playing shudderwock. I hope that helps if you still have questions feel free to ask me :D

[@Echs_D33]

Got reminded by this video because of inscryption. A card called Pharaoh's Pets lets you sacrifice it to play blood cards infinitely. The Ouroboros, a blood card, gains 1 attack(inscryption calls it power, but it's the same thing) and 1 health every time it dies, and also returns to your hand(as in, not in your deck or just deleted for that match). The Necromancer revives a unit when it dies, and then that revived unit immediately dies. There's a training dummy in act 2 featuring an enemy who does no damage and can block your damage. There's also a hammer feature which lets you kill your cards. So basically, you set up your Necromancer(or two, if you want extra brokeness), Pet, and Ouroboros, and you can create a loop of buffing your Ouroboros infinitely, not to mention creating infinite copies of that OP Ouroboros in your hand. It's tough to pull the Shudderwock-esque full combo in normal fights, but even just having an infinitely powerful Ouroboros(as his buffed stats stay past the fight) is still incredibly stupidly overpowered.

[@saphiriathebluedragonknight375]

That's why I try to avoid Ouroboros in Act One and Two. Though if I've been having rotten luck in Act One I may garb it.

[@anan-gl6oi]

You've activated my trap card! When my opponent breathes, it allows me to summon Exodia!

[@nathanielmohr9622]

Well, unfortunately, Exodia is just a 1000 ATK/1000 DEF monster with basically no effect once you summon it. The pieces have to be in your hand to activate it.

[@abirneji]

yeah it isn't even viable competitively despite the legendary effect

[@moldysourlemons]

No matter what the anime tells you, you can't summon Exodia once you have all five pieces in your hand. At that point, the duel is already over.

[@indescrepit9973]

Exodia is not a monster. Exodia is 5 different cards that once they are in your hand you win the duel. There is no singular monster called exactly "Exodia". the closest is the head

[@moldysourlemons]

@@indescrepit9973 the card of which is called "Exodia-The Forbidden One"

[@ANDl23W]

LOL as a current YGO player I can tell you... YGO is stil broken.

[@thesuddendemise7735]

ANDl23W I wonder who the Firewall successor is going to be?

[@Verde4755]

@@thesuddendemise7735 we already have it, it's gumblar.

[@asdflkawj2165]

@@Verde4755 this aged well

[@Verde4755]

@@asdflkawj2165 it did, lol

[@MrTexxx]

@@Verde4755e o pokemon ? Ta morto?

[@ricarleite]

A LOT of misinformation and false claims. For instance, nerfed cards ARE compensated with dust gained for the amount of a new card of the same rarity.

[@izicial7469]

Sometimes that happens. Blizz recently released some minor nerfs and didn't give dust back.

[@Coldmaj]

Key word being *minor* here. There was no compensation for the minor Shudderwork nerf but there also wasn't any drop in win percentage either.

[@salmon1449]

Mugga tell me when was the last time you saw a 20 battlecries shudderwock

[@Coldmaj]

Uhhh... pretty much never? I don't come across Shudderwock Shaman that much. When I sometimes do they rarely get to play it.

[@nicholast2031]

Mugga that's what he means, like it almost never happens making the nerf minor

[@toastybutondifferentacc5775]

The only thing card companies can do when their card game breaks, is to either fix the pack it was included in and nerf/remove that card and replace it. The only other thing that can happen is if the community agrees that that card cannot be played at all in competitive battles. The thing is opposite in online games. The company can easily just nerf the card Willy nilly. I have no idea what my point is here.

[@OtakuUnitedStudio]

Or, with real cards, you can add it to the ban list and not allow it in tournaments. The community doesn't need to agree - if it's officially sanctioned, the refs won't let it be played and they won't let you have it in your deck.

[@marmeg5238]

7:05 That's not how it works. The copy won't create another copy. This combo works because you can have 10 copys of Shudderwock next turn, dealing 30 (or 60) damage to your opponent. I like this video and agree with most of said things but this mistake is pretty big.

[@hecklingAbyss]

Marmeg well spoken sir

[@shoulders-of-giants]

A game is broken from the start if I can pay to win.

[@dorugoramon0518]

A truer thing has never been said

[@yogirajmore63]

Hard to swallow pills.

[@noxure]

I played it for a few years and there's a lot of bad stuff about that game and can't speak for it now, but it wasn't exactly pay to win. The only thing you needed to do is to do the quests and then play one Arena game/day. Not get tempted to buy packs wherever you get the enough gold. Once you get skilled at the game you can easily get 60 packs a month without spending anything; which is enough to construct one competitive deck - so you can build new deck every month; after a six months you have quite a large catalog of cards which is usually the speed a new expansion gets released. Granted you need to play 2-3 hours a day, but if you want to "win" you're going to need to play that much regardless you pay for it or not.

[@Wanderingwalker-ke6mg]

Can’t say the same for yugioh duel links, have never spent a real dime and Iv got a decent win streak considering the people I’m up against who probably have spent out, suppose with card games however there’s more chance involved with a shuffled deck 🤔

[@tribeofephraim5801]

I know it doesn't seem that way from this misleading video,but its actually quite easy to get shudderwock without spending a single dime,I got in a couple of weeks by crafting

[@pablofattouh1696]

1. When you "summon" a minion (which is not the same as "playing" a minion) the battlecry doesn't activate on that minion. 2. The shudderwock deck wasn't a must play. Sure it was annoying but it got outclassed by pretty much any aggressive or mid range deck. 3. Pulling off the combo consistently required many more cards than the three mentioned. Since the order of the battlecries is random there is a 50% chance that grumble triggers before saronite which just leaves you with 2 6/6s on the field. 4. You get arcane dust back if a card you own gets nerfed which means you can craft another card of the same rarity for free.

[@android927]

I remember when i was in highschool my friends and i would often play some casual games of MTG during our free periods at school (casual in that we didn't really care much about any of the meta strategies and would just play with whatever cards we happened to have). One day i decided to try going to the games club after school, and in literally the very first match my opponent wiped the floor with me in like 3 turns using a tailor-made Cascade deck. That was the last time i ever went to the games club after school.

[@FurryEskimo]

What?? No.. That shouldn’t work. Summons created by a battlecry don’t have their battlecries activate. If that was true, than the minions that summoned copies on themselves would always fill the board, but they don’t.

[@brianng9765]

did you watch the video? At the end there's 5 shudderwock and all 5 of them are activating the lifedrinker's battlecry

[@jimmykim6562]

That's because there's another battlecry that Shudderwock copies which bounces other minions back to hand and makes them cost 1 mana. The player in the footage is casting new shudderwocks (the copies summoned and not played do not do any battlecry until they are bounced and replayed).

[@FurryEskimo]

吳竟宏 Yes, which I don’t understand, because that’s not how it should work.

[@SirTonitrus]

FurryEskimo it was a nerf later on that caused copies summoned to not trigger battle cry, before that it would just fill the board.

[@FurryEskimo]

Riley Grycewicz But they Shouldn’t activate their battle cries! Battlecries activate when a minion is played from your hand, *not* when they are summoned. That’s why minions that copy themselves using a battlecry only summon one copy of themselves.

[@decyted6847]

Copy of Shudderwock won't activate it's battlecry. In order to do the battlecry, you have to play the card exactly from your hand, not by the effect from another card.

[@adamxue6096]

The guy clearly do not understand that, to differ from MTG and Yugioh Battlecry is only when YOU play the card from your hand. I can see why the misconceptions as being MTG and Yugioh has cards that basically sounds like Battlecry, giving, when they are summoned/enter the field, do this or that. But Hearthstone has a very good restriction of only when you play it from your hand. Which makes broken cards in other games normal in Hearthstone. Clearly this guy doesn't play hearthstone a lot and has completely misunderstood it. But I honestly, feel like it is more of a troll if he had played the flipping combo himself, he ought to have already found out that it doesn't work the way he say it to be. So I kind of feel like, this guy was joking around, making a complete troll move.

[@Josharoo]

what on earth are you talking about 70 dollars to get shudderwock? just craft the card if it's the only one you're looking for. what a completely irrational and fabricated point to try to make

[@rice_frying_shrimp]

if you're a newbie you still need to make an initial investment / play to make gold for a while, or you won't have the dust...

[@caloreen1992]

Seriously, where as every other card game you ACTUALLY have to pull the card from a booster. Not sure where he was going with that one.

[@rice_frying_shrimp]

plus, in actual card games duplicates are a pain in the ass... in HS you just get a bit of dust :)

[@justingray8161]

THANK YOU!!! oh my gosh this guy doesn't play hearthstone, he really shouldn't be making a video like this about it

[@just-yellow]

This guy is just out of his mind and knows nothing about Hearthstone

[@JoseMolina-ij3xx]

I remember the Black Lotus combo in MTG as well as Omanyte from Pokemon being banned for causing a hand to be shown all the time. Pokemon had others, too, like Sneasel's Beat Up, Blastoise Rain Dance, The mistranslation of Slow King in English cards vs the Japanese cards.

[@ignacioariza8886]

Oof, this video is a trainwreck of mistakes

[@iisadragon]

Ignacio Ariza how so?

[@SamTochelliDzn]

Allem Cardenas Summoned minions (from mechanics like Saronite Chain Gang's battlecry or resurrection if playing Priest) do not trigger their battlecry. If this was the case, Saronite Chain Gang would repeat its battlecry until the board is full. Also, opening packs is not the only avenue to obtain cards, as duplicates can be broken down into Arcane Dust, allowing players to target specific cards they don't own and immediately add them to their collection. Frankly the first point is the bigger issue imo as it shows a fundamental lack of game knowledge on even a basic level.

[@zebedeesummers4413]

He Completely lacks and real game knowledge and just assumes a whole lot. It seems like he played, at most maybe an hour of the game, he has no knowledge of what the game is and has been when he says what he does. I understand he was not just trying to talk about hearthstone but if he uses it as an example he should understand the game. Really frustrating how he lacks understanding of basic mechanics.

[@zebedeesummers4413]

Also shudderwulk is not even an amazing card, the winrate of the deck on average is about 52%, compare that to "meta" decks it is not great.

[@crimsintv]

Biggest mistake at 7:00. Summoned copies don't trigger the Battlecry. Minions have to be cast from the hand to trigger a Battlecry. He also makes a ton of exaggerations. Shudderwock never "ripped through the meta". The problem was only the animation time. The Shudderwock combo is still in the game, but it's more tier 2-3.

[@altair4045]

After seeing the comments it seems this video was a mistake. :\

[@josefArdizzola]

Altair it is

[@Amaling]

Yup

[@nickt6947]

No, that card sucks. Crazy to me how many suck boys there are for stupid no strategy cards used for easy wins. The Hearthstone community is ass.

[@diegosilva3927]

Nikolas Tsarnas But it doesn't work like showed in the video

[@Liverator]

Nikolas Tsarnas Hey dipshit. I don't think you realize how difficult it is to pull this combo off given the deck is so bad. If it was a skill less card, then it would have been nerfed (and the change that blizzard made to shudderwock was NOT a nerf, as it hardly impacted the card). And it hasn't been nerfed, so go fuck yourself

[@lek289]

7:05 Nope, the new shudderwocks battle cry only when you play it. Therefore it doesn't repeat then but rather after grumble puts the copy in your hand at one mana allowing you to replay it and get several more 1 cost shudderwocks. The most shudderwocks you can play in a turn is capped at 10.

[@residentgrey]

The Shudderwock issue could be fixed by excluding itself or only allowing the effect once in a turn. This is what is done in most special summoning and other related effects in Yu-Gi-Oh.

[@LoserHands]

It doesn't include itself. You already have better earnest and intuition than the video essayist lol. Shudderwock's battlecry happens because it is 'played from hand'. Actually all battlecries happen because, when a card is 'played from hand'. So imagine Shudderwock causes any such random battlecries that happen when he hits the board, in a kind of affirmative manner; they never included him afaik, and actually the devs had to edit the card so it'd include battlecries of cards released after Shudderwock after player outcry. People got more Shudderwocks in one game by copying the card in literal ways unlike could happen in any other card game ie mtg. In retrospect it was clever, but you'd never say that at the time, in almost any sense lol. Everyone wanted to do the combo. This video essayist characterizes his mistake as being wrong on technical details but literally proved that he didn't even appreciate the card game for what it was if he experienced enough bustass ingame. Each card he mentions in the top comment is another card conflated without mention with Shudderwock, so a _whole_ _combo..._ just to say 'tHE PrOBleM wItH SHuDdeRwOCk' lmao. This game has infinite netdeckers, and dude couldn't furrow his brow and observe the single loss it takes to realize wtf Shudderwock did. Blizzard is ass but this game was a clever mess sometimes, this dude was just the highest-production-value-dadgamer you never want partaking in your hobby lmao. Straight up a baby&bathwater-dumping-ass philistine.

[@residentgrey]

@@LoserHands That is a curious mechanic.

[@adam-my9sw]

Hearthstone refunds dust when a character is nerfed right?

[@jimjonjim9664]

adam 1738 most of the time. Depends on how hard it gets nerfed.

[@5MARTIST]

I think your missing the point though. If you dump 70 usd into the game (dont know why people even pay for this game though) to get the card and it gets nerfed, dusting it (and crafting a new card) does not compensate you nearly enough

[@Nighterlev]

+Jack Meng It does when you paid for what you got in a online card game. You can think you weren't "compensated enough" all you want, but that's the nature of any digital game in general. The game will change, it will be different in the long run, and so on. That's what you agreed to when you bought the game in the 1st place via the TOS that the game warns you about before ever buying the game in the 1st place, whether by the description or anywhere else. Technically speaking, via the TOS, the developers don't have to compensate you at all in any way, shape, or form. Again, this is how video games have always worked for years, and it'll continue being like that in the future.

[@adam-my9sw]

Jack Meng kinda does tho...

[@5MARTIST]

Im not saying i'm agree with him, but he's questioning the practice in general. I know thats what you sign up for, but I feel like he's asking if that's how it should be

[@PrincessFelicie]

So many factual errors in this video. Don't do it from memory next time maybe, and make sure to research it fully to avoid mistakes?

[@westong6819]

Not Straight Very Gay Catgirl very condescending

[@SuperTimmmi]

And he forgot that one can still loose to rng

[@MoeDaliven]

he doesn't even know he can buy cards with DUST

[@viksuper5556]

or concede, without "having to watch slow exhausting animations"

[@MoeDaliven]

Viksuper 555 i am not sure if you can concede since it wouldn't let me concede when i use my Deathspeaker + Gnome + Defile OTK combo

[@pike1294]

HOLD UP, IS NOBODY GONNA TALK ABOUT THE 6 COLOR MAGIC CARD AT 4:12 ?? BRUH WHAT IS THAT!?!

[@rorylumsden6431]

Huh?

[@swaggafrog4762]

sugn its a fake card

[@ceulgai2817]

In the 90's, Magic tinkered around with the idea of releasing a 6th color (purple), but decided it wasn't worth it.

[@ilive7814]

Its an old idea that didnt go through

[@Aaronlcyrus]

Oh but they'll do Phyrexian mana and wastes.

[@Pascaloderso]

There are so many mistakes in this video, wow.

[@djomni115]

That moment you realize that Shudderwock Shaman is slow and loses to aggro, and thus is not viable in the meta. Seriously, the deck was popular for 2 weeks. Then people realized that aggro Paladin consistently beats it, and is still one of the best decks to play. Hearthstone's problem wasn't Shudderwock being annoying, it's class balancing. The best decks of the previous year were still the best decks, even after set rotations.

[@MrZAPPER1000]

If you want to know why this videos have 10k dislikes it’s because this guy has no idea what he’s talking about. The copies of shudderwock don’t deal 3 to face... When they nerf cards they reimburse you their full dust cost. You don’t have to spend $70 for shudderwock. Shudderwock also wasn’t ever a tier one deck. The games aren’t exceedingly long because shudderwock beats slow decks due to it’s ability to reach its combo earlier than control other decks. Hearthstone cards will always be in wild and hearthstone is not actually guilty of power creep despite what some people claim. The whole video skeeves me out because he slants everything and has a very surface level analysis. Like this makes me think of an April fools video.

[@CrzyLion]

waw what game are you playing? Shudderwock is the reason control decks in general and tauntdruid specifically, the most played deck in the game, is gone from ladder atm... i always feel like people saying the meta defining deck isnt tier one dont get how metas or statistics work.... As for the cost, shudderwock is designed to NEED grumble and zola (and double far sights), and needs the new shaman hero card to survive aggro. It's clearly meant to be an expensive deck.

[@Arsinshadow]

"Would you want to sit through a half hour game that you know you're going to lose?" *any battle royale player nodding*

[@ficagames475]

What battle royale game lasts for half a hour?

[@HandsomeGamerGuy]

@@ficagames475 Perhabs People who are hiding or dont know to leave the spectacter mode.

[@metaford3746]

@@HandsomeGamerGuy you know that why the damage circle exist right ? And how does not leaving spectator mode make the game last longer ?

[@goodmaro]

Used to do that a lot playing rugby, only it wasn't sitting.

[@reelbytes6447]

Idk, maybe Tetris 99?

[@madman10769]

That guy in YuGiOh with the exodia deck: “look at what they need to mimic a fraction of my power”

[@ieuanhunt552]

I know you are trying to prove a point. But Shudderwock isn't a big deal. If it pisses you off just play odd Paladin and mess them up. Any combo that requires two separate Legendary cards and 3 to 4 other cards that have to be played in a specific order is not going be all that good.

[@Robert-jy9jm]

If you want to win over shudderwock, hunter is a better choice than paladin right now in my opinion.

[@ieuanhunt552]

Mrfox aos The targets are random the order is not

[@TacSav253]

11:25 they do compensate you. When a card is nerfed you have 2 weeks to dust it for its full value, allowing you to craft a card of equal rarity

[@TacSav253]

@I OFFER YOU THIS Elaborate.

[@teddytatyo]

@I OFFER YOU THIS you can craft any legendary card with 1600dust do u even play Hearthstone

[@boballen2990]

@I OFFER YOU THIS You actually didn't pay for any exact card, as what you pull is random

[@SirRebrl]

@@boballen2990 If a person paid until they obtained the exact card they wanted, then yes, they very well did pay for an exact card. Just the amount paid was randomized.

[@boballen2990]

@@SirRebrl What I meant was that not all the money that you paid was for the one "card" you wanted. You could be aiming for a certain card, but that card is also divided among all the other cards that would be opened before pulling the desired one, and all of those cards also have value. If you were to pay $70, you didn't pay $70 only for the card you wanted, but for the card and all the other cards opened. The real cost of the one card is not $70

[@douglaslopes5913]

Halfway into this, you really don't play hearthstone do you?

[@Phatnaru0002]

Clearly not. All the things he got incorrect about it also tells me that the footage he showed wasn't even him, even though he claimed it was.

[@Skinskinable]

Douglas Lopes shudderwock is like a tier 3 deck....

[@Nixitur]

I've never played Hearthstone, and even I could tell that if Shudderwock worked as he said it did, then Saronite Chain Gang would completely fill up the board, too. Which it obviously doesn't.

[@ELFanatic]

I don't, MTG player but this wasn't at all broken to me and have been confused about this video. It seems this guy really misrepresented hearthstone.

[@spinyjustspiny3289]

One of my favorite deck synergies in early Hearthstone involved Kel'Thuzad, Faceless Manipulator, and Reincarnate. Kel'thuzad has an active ability that resurrects any minion that dies while he's in play. Faceless Manipulator has a battlecry that lets it turn into a copy of any other minion on the field you own, even Legendary ones, and it will remain in that form until it's killed. Reincarnate causes a card to die and immediately resurrect with all effects applied to it reset. However, and this is the important part, Reincarnate still counts as a minion dying. So you would slap down Kel'thuzad, and then use Faceless to copy him. Then, you would use Reincarnate on one of them. This causes the one Kel'thuzad left standing to resurrect the one that died, and it doesn't care that Reincarnate spawns a second one already. This means you now have three Kel'thuzads. And unless the opponent can destroy all three on that single turn, things have now gone off the rails. Kel'thuzad's ability will go off individually for each Kel'thuzad, and they will in turn clone anything on your side of the board that dies by a factor of however many Kel'thuzads there are. Which, as established earlier, includes Kel'thuzad himself. This madness only stops if you physically cannot fit any more minions onto the board, and it does not take that long to reach that point, especially if you have cards that you can use to directly kill your own minions. Meaning that you now have a wall of 6/8 self-replicating skeleton men taking up your end of the field unless your opponent manages to kill all of them in one turn, something that takes either a very tricky one-turn play, using Deathwing's battlecry, or using the Twisting Nether spell.

[@AmberWrath]

I can see you have actually not made any research to make this video, Hearthstone Rules: Battlecries only trigger if you play the card, not if you summon it, so no, summoning Shudderwock from Saronite's Chain Gang does not retrigger the Battlecries, and also, funny thing, Shudderwock's One Turn Kill Deck was Tier 3 (that's the almost viable category by the way) Shudderwork was really bad against aggressive decks which were very strong at the Start of witchwood's meta, the Uproar was only caused because it was still the start of the expansion. Shudderwock was never nerfed by the way, they reduced the amount of battlecries he could replicate and doubled the speed of the battlecry, but the amount of battlecries he can still replicate are still 20 which are a lot more than he needs to replicate in the first place, say you get Grumble, Saronite, two Lifedrinkers, Hagatha and Murmuring elemental, that's a total of 6 Battlecries, where's the nerf buddy? Oh and one more thing, you can CRAFT a card if you want it, you didn't mention that i'd assume to make blizzard look bad, then again you didn't know basic rules of Hearthstone so maybe you didn't know it existed, but let me tell you something, whenever they nerf a card in hearthstone they give a full dust refund for the card, that means you can get all it's cost in Virtual Currency and create anything of equal power that you may want unless the card is Basic, you know, the cards which are given to you for free. Oh and one final thing by the way, After a Balance patch Witchwood's Meta slowed down by quite a lot and we had a Control Meta, that means less aggressive decks, and more of the Decks Shudderwock is good against, Guess what Tier Category Shudderwock's Deck is right now, yeap, that's right, Still Tier 3

[@GoncaloSalads]

THANK YOU, I was looking at the comments to see if someone said that "Battlecry" doesn't actually work as he said it does

[@patrickcosgrove5256]

But, didn't he literally show gameplay of it working? Am I missing something because it looks exactly like that in the video

[@leonthomas2020]

Patrick What the video is showing and what he's saying is happening is not the same thing.

[@GoncaloSalads]

actually, he didnt, what I think was happening was that he was spawning other Shudderwocks that were in their hand and cost 1 mana, beacuse of the active of one of the other battlecryes

[@GoncaloSalads]

Actually, what he was doing was spawning and activating Shudderwock battlecry again by spawning it from his hand but only costing 1 mana, because of one of the battelcries he was activating

[@Yamezzzz]

There are so many mistakes in this video it hurts. Does he not know you can concede?

[@cuppy6000]

he also doesnt know about dust and gold

[@afridge8608]

once the combo starts you cant concede

[@ZetaHaru]

No, you can concede at any moment.

[@calebmills6051]

A Fridge have you ever played hearthstone... You can definently concede during shuuderwocks animations ive done it before

[@brianng9765]

idk if he know he can concede, but i sure as hell know that he knew that you can't concede during an animation

[@novasnotvibing]

Completely disregarded disenchanting