When EXACTLY Was the "FNAF Golden Age"? Feat.

[@MorningDusk7734]

I will say that we can’t say “everything” is an illusion. The gas needed the mannequins on tracks and the whole house set, illusion disks only work very locally, the AR mostly aligned with the real world (with only a few exceptions), and VR still had to have the game scaffolding to work.

[@ZapStrideGaming]

The AR mask in ruin is how cassie sees what the ruined pizzaplex really looks like, and the ruined place we see is mostly illusion gas induced. Only parts that are the same are the animatronics themselves, they really exist is that appearance. Roxy looking repaired in the mask view is to get Cassie to feel more pain upon seemingly shutting her down. Or that's my condensed theory.

[@krdt1111]

The mimic thing is like the robot kid paradox, once one person is a robot kid everyone is. Once one person is the mimic pretending now everyone’s the mimic

[@colorbar.s]

so true focalors

[@dylanhudec979]

Fnaf went from purple guy immortality remnant to mimic after mimic turning out to be a mimic and that mimic turned out to be another mimic all along BS

[@Khloe.6102]

never knew that focalors is a fnaf fan

[@Poppybe]

I honestly think the shining moment for fnaf was around the release of pizzeria simulator and ucn. Pizzeria simulator just gave us a beautiful ending to the series, seemingly getting rid of every single major character at the same time. Ultimate custom night gave us insane amounts of content compared to the other games and the whole hype around the first people beating 50/20 just felt really good, it actually felt like the whole community had a common goal. And we can't forget how interactive Scott got around the time too, doing that interview with dawko and stuff

[@konaqua122]

The reason why Ruin feels unfinished is because the ending leaves questions. Things like, "If Cassie is alive, would she need to go outside next?" "Would Gregory try to kill Cassie or save her?" Unlike other Fnaf games where there is a definite ending.

[@Jamstaro1]

agreed... I don't like multiple endings where they don't feel cannon at some point... Either she's dead and that's it... Or she's alive and we don't know what happened to her.

[@synettech5800]

Technically there were multiple endings in Pizzaria Simulator, Sister Location, FNAF 3, and if you take it even further you could consider dying in each game as a "bad ending" especially in the first game where you see that you were stuffed in freddy

[@sidecharacter3193]

I mean….we still don’t have a confirmed ending for fnaf 3

[@TheCodingHat]

​@@sidecharacter3193 i hate that so much, it makes my skin boil because of the seemingly tiny but intense lore applications

[@Hex.A.Decimal]

RUIN literally has an empty fileholder for an extra 4th ending we didn't get. So yes, it is without a shadow freddy of a doubt unfinished. (Ending/null=none)

[@annabelle2523]

I consider myself not a fan of FNAF, but a fan of FNAF theories and theorists.

[@RyeToast]

Totally valid

[@Lisa_Flowers]

This is such a good way to put it! I feel very similar. I'm more a fan of FNAF creators (speedrunners, theorists, gamers, cosplayers) than I am of the actual franchise lol

[@oscollective]

This! I find the theories fascinating, but I have no interest in playing the games or reading the books (besides maybe SB, but it doesn't seem worth the hard drive space.)

[@musichild]

I don’t know how I’ve ended up on this channel recently but it feels like a breath of fresh air

[@RyeToast]

I'm glad you think so!

[@jayrawd]

ive really been craving some different perspectives on the smaller details that gt doesnt cover plus a more lengthy in-depth analysis of everything and just generally more fnaf theory videos, i started watching fuhnaff since i saw him on some gt not lives and then i saw him doing a podcast with toast and now ive just been stuck binging his entire channel, i am very pleased lmao

[@tsume_akuma8321]

I totally agree with you on the whole "it feels like a second act out of 3" thing, but even moreso. Ruin's Endings all feel like the House of Cards just started to fall down, but it froze right in the middle. They feel like 1-5 seconds before the actual ending is where the Cold Open sits.

[@the_godbodor7026]

I actually never realized until you mentioned it that you don’t see Lefty in the Henry cutscene. It shows parallaxes of the Puppet from other games/mini games but it never gives a “burning animatronic” shot like the other three. I think this just gives more evidence that The Puppet/Charlie could still be at play in the current story if they never actually burned away like we thought

[@annabelle2523]

Strictly speaking, the creator's intention changing isn't always a retcon. For example, Scott may have meant for the talking plush in FNAF 4 to be possessed or maybe just an imaginary friend, only later deciding that it was William speaking through a walkie talkie, but because that doesn't contradict what we see in FNAF 4, it's not really a retcon. It's just frustrating. XD

[@RyeToast]

That's a fair point, also is that an alhaitham PFP??

[@Hex.A.Decimal]

GREAT TO SEE YOU, DAN! Made my day. The Golden Age was 100% a thing. 1-4 because Scott not only took a dead game concept (sit and survive) and made it viable and fun, but he also interacted with his fans in a way we hadn't really seen before with teasers/codes. (Especially during SL, which I loved the build up to. Just not so much the game...) The replayability was crazy(which is where SL failed), and you could 100% watch someone else play it and still play it yourself and love every minute. Which is great with a jumscare spooky game- shared scares are the best scares. The lore was enticing and deep but ambiguous and not overbearing- optional for gameplay but there for those of us that cared. As it should be. 2 was the most rushed judging by the state of the coding (child funtions going nowhere and frames you can't reach for triggers) but I love it. And yes, I've played up to night 6. Go ahead and at me. 3 is my favourite. I love the gameplay and the lore. I have beat it multiple times. 4 I have conflicting feelings about. Sound based horror actually gets me so I suck at it. As a dataminer, I have to say I HARD DISAGREE with dream theory and have a permanant bad taste in my mouth over that box. But I loved World so maybe I'm just crazy. SL had nice sequences but just fell flat. Bad autosave points, everything is scripted, no replayability. I liked the voice acting a lot. The lore and the graphics felt... Sterilized for this franchise. Pizza sim days are my favourite. The nights are RNG hell and I don't much care for it. I also hate the renders. Kills the emersion for me during the best gameplay of all the franchise imo- the scrap sequences. The tension is quashed by Willy Neutron. I haven't gotten around to play UCN so I won't judge it. I don't think there will be a Come to Thesus moment for the franchise anymore, at least not the games. Period. I think 4 and World had one, but it was forfeited by both fans and creator. Some things are best left forgotten. Forever. Lest you dwell on them too hard and sour what we have with what could have been.

[@salvation1613]

One big thing I wished happened is that we don't "cure " vanny at the end of security breach but rather make it so glitchtrap isn't 100% in control and have her being a new recurring villian

[@Hex.A.Decimal]

Ditto.

[@miniespeon158]

Fnaf 1-3 was the golden age for me because THAT’S WHEN THE CLASSIC BANGERS CAME OUT!!! DAGames, living tombstone, etc. plus i remember being in school and enjoying the games with friends on my tablet and all of the memorable “a-ha” game theory moments and the huge scottgames announcements, the lore was just so fresh and interesting and there was so much to learn, it doesnt feel as robust nowadays, it feels kinda old or watered down, its still good content imo but nothing compares to when we discovered the 8 bit minigames for the first time

[@LorzIX]

I think the series struck absolute gold with the first game, especially coming out of nowhere. It's really a miracle that the first attempt did the visuals so well and the gameplay managed to be pretty good. In 2 and 3 the visuals continue to be really good in what originally made FNAF so great, pushing that uncanny/creepy look, and yeah the gameplay became worse in an attempt to diversify the formula, but the narrative still compensated for it. I think it was from 4 onwards that we started to have confusing narratives that we couldn't figure out/weren't meant to be fully figured out at the time, we had shifts in aesthetic like 4 trying too hard to be scary, SL doing a completely new thing... In my opinion, the original trilogy was the golden age because the narrative was satisfying to figure out, and in terms of horror the atmosphere of the games was at its peak, at least for what personally made me shit my pants. I've been along for the ride because there's always been bright spots, but nothing fascinated me quite as those first three. PD: I'll always argue that the bite of 87 was just a throwaway joke to add to the dark humor of the first game and to showcase the negligence of the company that also told you they wouldn't be responsible for your injuries and would hide the evidence if something happened to you. I never got the feeling that it was supposed to hint at something that relevant to the plot (proof of it is that solving that mystery would have never moved the plot along at any point in the series), and we only got hints at it in further games because the fanbase kept thinking about it.

[@dummdumm6735]

To go off of the "do you need to play fnaf (or horror games in general) to be a fan?" question. One thing i like about watching youtubers specifially mark sean or mat, is they are good at video games. they know how to play and have been playing them for years, and some of these newer horror games can require you to be a good gamer in order to enjoy the expirence.

[@Sayne7]

Speaking of gas in the sister location, does anyone remember the unused "toxic" meter involving wearing the Freddy Mask? maybe Scott did originally intend for there to be a (neuro?)toxic gas in sister location.

[@RyeToast]

Interesting, I could see that

[@Sayne7]

@@RyeToast Thanks Rye! :D

[@ViktorErikFade]

Typically I don't see your channel suggested other than FNAF stuff and maybe a few other videos sure But I always click on these podcast episodes when they pop up because it feels nice to casually admit to being very confused about FNAF lore without the gatekeepers yelling at me that I shall not pass and biting my ankles

[@AHandleWasAlreadyTaken]

I'd say 1-3 cause it had the best story and was the easiest to understand overall. It also was the scariest and creepiest

[@miniespeon158]

Tbh the gameplay of 1 and 4 was scariest to me

[@LunaWitcherArt]

Look. The only thing that is certain in SB is that Gregory is a lil' s**t. He was very willing to mangle every animatronic just because he was being attacked, DESPITE Freddy consistently saying "hey, take it easy, these are my friends and they are not acting in their right mind". Leaving Cassie behind because she became a liability is a logical next step. I hope we have another DLC of Cassie and Roxy escaping the depths of the Pizzaplex and Cassie wanting to take revenge on Gregory, though.

[@soomi5667]

Here’s the thing about Gregory though.. he was being attacked. He was ruthless but he was protecting himself.

[@LunaWitcherArt]

​@@soomi5667yeah, but that level of revenge is not what you expect from a kid, at least not what I expect from "main character kid in media". Very hard to see a vengeful little kid being the main character and that trait not being "fixed" by the end of the story. He's not a good character thrust in a bad situation that gets out of it because he's a good little kid, he's a complicated character that can make hard choices BECAUSE he's a lil' s**t, and that's what moves the plot. He never gave the animatronics the benefit of the doubt, not even Roxy after seeing her cry, which is the textbook "Moment In Media Where Little Kid Feels Sympathy For Toy". He never strayed from his goal, and he consistently had an active part in destroying the animatronics despite knowing they were not acting right, AND there was never a peaceful alternative. He also never felt remorse, and most damning of all, the scene where all his actions would come back to bite him in his a** and he would have to defeat Freddy in his most powerful state, a state Gregory himself hand-crafted, *was deleted from the game* so he never learns any lessons. Therefore, he is Meant To Be a lil' s**t, at least for a little bit longer. Gregory may not be a robot, may not be completely a victim, but he is For Sure a lil' s**t.

[@soomi5667]

@@LunaWitcherArtI think your forgetting that these animatronics tried to kill this kid. How is he going to feel for them..when they are going after him. Why should he feel sympathy for them when they’re trying to hurt him? Gregory isn’t a normal kid for sure, he’s very ruthless. But.. he had reason to do the things he did. ( somewhat..)

[@erickamakeeaina1649]

@@soomi5667 He was not protecting himself, he has to put himself in higher risk situations to be able to damage the animatronics.

[@soomi5667]

@@erickamakeeaina1649 He's in a high risk situation regardless. It's either he dies or he fights back. I won't doubt Gregory was pretty ruthless with his methods but..I think he was still protecting himself anyways.

[@Trecherousbeast]

I never understood why Dream Theory was considered cheap, or how it somehow “made everything meaningless.” “It was all a dream” is a fully valid way to end a story, and even if it was all “just a dream”, dreams are usually symbolic of something that really happened, so wouldn’t that just spice up theories even more?

[@Sock-Monster-Simian]

I don't know why people struggled with the mini music man section so much in Ruin. I had trouble with the AI in only like one place, but every other section felt smooth and required actual interesting gameplay, unlike basically the entire rest of the game. That was probably the best part in the DLC.

[@lunabob-ie5qx]

The vanny mask used to sometimes break their ai, where you just had to hope that it didn't.

[@GentleWruzzPuppet]

A couple of the mini music men don't get teleported out of the ar world so if you are unlucky that the one stays in place when putting on the mask as you run over to press E on the thing then it would get you when

[@istvankeri6688]

Yeah, when it worked right, it was the best part of the DLC, but that's only because it had actual gameplay and wasn't just a walking simulator like the rest of the game.

[@ax.olotls]

I really appreciate the discussion on fans that haven't played the games, read the books, etc. I've always had really bad anxiety and I never handled jumpscares well before fnaf. So when my friends got really into it, I absolutely ruled out playing it, but I sat down and watched Mark's whole playlist (with the lights on and I started with jumpscare time stamps but later didn't need them), and now fnaf is one of my biggest hyperfixations. I love the theorizing aspect and learning how deep the lore goes was so fascinating that I just kept coming back. I still have yet to play one of the games, but I'm much more open to the idea now that I have that familiarity with it

[@loganentertainment1814]

Fnaf's Golden Age, was a time when Scott was the one making the games, and we didn't have people like TheftKing and Puggos Pizzeria making the Fnaf community look bad and being losers who only care about profiting off of it without any care of what their actions result in. That's why they will never be acknowledged by the more popular Fnaf KZbinrs, and why people like you RyeToast, are one of the prime examples to what Fnaf should have always been about. Overall, I can't deny the franchise has its faults, but that won't stop me from loving it.

[@ShrapnelStars]

(I'm so, so sorry for being "The long posts guy", but I just really love delving into this stuff!) The "golden era", in my opinion, was 1-3. Even with their issues, you could still see where the story was going, and it was still fun to solve, and felt pretty confident in itself. Hot take, but I don't have an issue with Springtrap's jumpscares in 3, because it always felt like he was supposed to be sassy and confident, kind of like Freddy Krueger. Then TSE came out and backed me up on that. I fully understand why people don't like them, and more power to them, but for me, the calm way he sidles up to you never felt like a mistake. He's supposed to give off the aura that he's calm, calculating, and completely unafraid of you. Even though I'm kind of a FNaF genwunner, I ADORE the art direction of the entire Steel Wool era. I love Help Wanted and it's story, and I love the Glamrocks and the idea of the Pizzaplex. In general, even though I think 1-3 plus HW is peak, there is something I like about every single game. (Similar way I feel about pokemon, honestly. Gens 5 and 7 and PLA are fav even though I've been playing since 1, I love the monsters of every single game. The only game that I honest to god hated was SwSh, but Leon is my fav Champion in the series.) You both fully articulated my issues with the series right now. The story is so hard to solve because the issues are with the writing itself, not that certain clues haven't been found or whatever. The writers are more and more blatantly leaving little escape clauses for themselves so that they have story options to fall back on in case certain decisions they make get negative feedback. You can't really theorize on anything because you never know when they'll pivot to something else, or will pull an SB and accidentally botch it so hard that they have to roll with something new. I've resigned myself to just waiting to see what they do with the next few entries. I'm going to try to throw my hat back into the proper theorizing ring when the clown game comes out (if it comes out), but for right now, there's so little to stand on, that I need to just wait and see for now. If you want to see a series with equally expansive and fun lore, but total control (pun not intended) over the continuity, check out the Remedyverse (Max Payne 1 and 2, Alan Wake series, Control series. Control and Alan Wake are the core games interacting with each other). They have fun and quirky characters, Control is even like a AAA SCP Foundation game, but the clues and extra lore they hide in every game are tightly designed and you can reach solid conclusions from what you find, and the next games that come out are always consistent. If you find something, the games will keep you on the right track in a way that keeps theorizing extremely fun and still an exercise for the player to have a field day with. If you want to jump right into the weird and wild fun, start with Control. if you want to have the groundwork for some "aha" moments that you can get in Control, start with Alan Wake.

[@barbadroid]

Omg guests here! I adore this podcast so much, such a nice vibe and cool topics. About part of Ruin unsatisfying endings, I totally feel that but to me it looks like Ruin was made to "Complete" SB, so it gave us some explanatons, gave us new context, properly introduced a threat and now it leads us forward, it's like a recap before next thing, an in-between experience to fill the gaps that won't be introduced properly in the future installment. So it lead to ending being so sudden so soon we get more juicy stuff to continue the journey

[@jsj0520]

59:26 SA2 is fucking goated one of my favorite games as a kid. I wish they stuck with that gameplay formula

[@id-f86]

I love that the pause menu has lore, reminds me a lot of the kirby games where almost all the lore is explained in pause menus :)

[@equasia24]

26:27 Hi, casual FNAF viewer here. And I mean super casual in that I only watched Markiplier play a game when it was released and then kind of went about my day. I remembered the names of the characters and the vague deal but nothing beyond that. I knew there was a fandom, I knew there was lore, but I never really looked into it. Most of it was implied, so I never really picked up on stuff generally. I started watching your videos after watching his playthrough of Ruin because I was very confused and wanted to know what the hell was going on. My priorities were completely different from what a lot of people who are actively into FNAF focused on. The Mimic, finding Bonny, etc are all things that people talk about a lot. I wanted to know what was going on with the AR stuff. Who was helpi? Why did the entire architecture of the world change when Cassie put on the mask? Why was she able to walk through walls and all of that? Why did technicians need these really specific tools and an AR mask? I was also curious about the Mimic because it felt out of nowhere. I did also like that they included the Bonnie thing because yeah, I did wonder where he was in the main game. However, neither of those were really a priority for me to be honest. I have been really fascinated by watching your videos though, so I'm glad I was intrigued enough to start digging!

[@angelhasspoken]

fnaf 2 gameplay making me cry but also im grooving to the soundtrack

[@NonBobbie000]

My big issue was that on day 1 Roxie somehow saw me in a hiding spot (the shop looking ones right before you find Freddy broken) and I sat there for 30 minutes waiting for her to leave and had to restart the game

[@AdamGaffney96]

I think one of the main problems I have with a lot of the people theorising is that I feel like they give Scott too much credit. Like in a lot of the modern stuff I feel like I see so many people blame Steel Wool for how the story has gone but like, Scott still has a large amount of control and ownership over the story. "Scott said there's only one retcon so there's only one" like he can just be incorrect on that, it doesn't need to either be that he's maliciously lying or that he's a genius who had everything planned out. I think he's just a guy who got excited that he was finally having a success, and released a bunch of games way too quickly without enough thought into the story and how everything connects. And then from Sister Location onwards has been trying to course correct, and retrofit things in, but nothing can ever fit 100% cleanly because it wasn't constructed to fit, so now this is like the ramifications of that. They're throwing stuff at the wall with the books and SB, and I think Ruin was them choosing the Mimic going forward, but SB felt like they hadn't decided which of the 5 stories they had in mind they wanted to tell. And I think a lot more of that falls on Scott than people give credit for. 18:30 Also just to add to this, I do absolutely agree that Ruin's tone was more scary, however I honestly don't think Ruin could have existed without SB's tone being more of a brighter adventure game. Maybe this is just me personally that thinks this, but I think Ruin was elevated because of that contrast, you'd seen a functioning Pizzaplex, now here it is completely destroyed. I don't think that can work without SB not being a horror game. I say this all the time, but people level a criticism at SB for "failing to be scary" but I don't think it failed, I just don't think it was trying to be super scary. I think it was a game made to contain the surface elements of the series to this point i.e. jumpscares, but was meant to be an adventure game.

[@LadyBernkastel92]

Fully with you on the 'they were always mid and we loved them anyway' stuff. "Pokémon designs used to be great and now they're bad" There were two circles, two pokemon that evolved into three of them being stuck together, 3 piles of goo, and a seal called seel. I love all pokemon but like... There are so many super creative new mons that put old mons to shame.

[@RyeToast]

Exactly! Like don't get me wrong, I love both franchises but both franchises always had their issues

[@bathilra5364]

32:15 the theirist sire squaks has refered to it as a scott con the example he uses mainly is the golden suit in fnaf 2 and at the time it was probobly just golen freddy but has new meaning now as spring bonnie

[@Hex.A.Decimal]

Scottconning is a verb that means to completely reinterpret your own work if you have enough wiggle room to do so. I.E. nightmares to scarecrow gas. It's a future tense conning and it can be cunning. If used sparingly it is known as a plot twist. If used a Scott amount (extreme) then it just becomes annoying and redundant.

[@DynamicLemons]

59:56 as someone who has played a good chunk of the mainline series and is a fan of it... i don't wanna say 4 is a bad estimate, but i feel its somewhere between 8 and 12

[@leen8430]

Great episode, I absolutely love your podcast. What a treat to have Dan on board, I could listen to the two of you for hours!

[@leen8430]

Regarding your later point concerning interaction with the games... I actually first got into FNAF by watching the GT videos, then hopped over to watch Markiplier playing it (whose channel I had never visited before)... THEN I read the books, and a few months ago I finally started playing 1, 2 and 6, at least the first few nights. My journey into the franchise basically went backwards, and while it might not be the way it was intended, I absolutely loved that trip. FNAF feels like home, and I appreciated your opinions on the impact it had on digital art and online communities. That - bringing people together in so many different ways, from so many different angles - is definitely one of FNAF's greatest strengths.

[@voydstar]

One fun thing about KZbin is never playing the games but being able to recite the lore

[@DivinationDragon]

I consider myself to be a fan of FNaF even though I've never played any of the games. I have started reading the books through, I'm part way through The Silver Eyes at the moment. I know enough about the franchise, thank to watching way too much KZbin, to have a long conversation about the games with a friend's daughter on Saturday :D

[@amytattersfield2017]

RyeToast Created Jurassic Park In FNAF With THREE Chicas In The Kitchen!

[@zarriaortega4547]

It’s so weird not hearing “head editor Dan”😂😂

[@Charliehotdog79]

I'd love a FNaF reboot with a new start to end.

[@SoulFlameXil]

I got into FNaF by watching game theory, gt got me really interested in the lore, then introduced me to some other good FNaF channels like fuhnaf, id’s, and rye here. Seeing everyone’s different points and how John is really good at picking out little details keeps my interest high, and makes me want to play them myself (which I’ll be doing over the summer with my kids). There is no bad way to consume FNaF media.

[@prezwhitehouse]

This episode inspired me to pick up the games for the first time. I played the OG and Pizzeria Simulator. Honestly the others don’t seem like the gameplay would be as fun to me but I know I want to play FNAF4 in the future.

[@RyeToast]

The OG is so so good! Hope you enjoy them

[@prezwhitehouse]

The OG really IS good! My play through has been a bit altered since I already kinda knew the strats and a little about the AI, but I agree 100% with you that it is the only one that absolutely nails uncanny horror. Chica’s dumbass stare through the window still gets my heart beat to spike.

[@-Jimini-]

I’ve seen the MCU Comparison before, and, like, I get it, there’s a lot of Marvel Content now, but I think a key difference is that it’s all centralised in one place. If you want to, everything (except Far From Home and No Way Home as of writing this) is on Disney Plus. Regardless of the quantity or quality, if you are an MCU fan, you can accessibly consume all MCU content. They have Legends which recaps all of the important characters in an upcoming project. Again, regardless of what you think of the MCU and Marvel “these days,” it is basically all in one place for people that want it. FNAF on the other hand is, in that regard, the exact opposite, because it is now split across mediums. Like, at this point, if you want to consume all of FNAF, you not only have to buy and play every game, but you have to buy and read every single book, and it’s not even clear if they’re all apart of the same continuity because the books themselves are also split into different series and types, not to mention the fact that it’s usually not even telling a narrative, it’s giving you bits of a story and making you piece them together. And, yeah, that piecing can be fun, but it gets to a point where there are so many pieces that are actively being spread apart and put behind barriers. Again, this isn’t about the quality and I’m not trying to say that the MCU is above criticism or anything like that, I just think that one is a lot easier to access than the other.

[@TacticaLLR]

FNaF 1-UCN have, and always will be, fantastic to me.

[@JustCallMeMex]

I always say thay if it had actually ended there, and the story went in a separate direction after UCN, that FNAF 1-6/UCN was one of the best runs of storytelling in gaming

[@Staurcomb]

For me 1-3 was peak

[@Hex.A.Decimal]

​@@StaurcombSame, 4 could have been a great send off if that 9th night in the box had been a proto-UCN like I believe it was going to be originally.

[@TenshiLove5]

I definitely feel like the logic of the games jumped the shark at sister location's zombie Micheal. I consider 1-4 one era just because of that distinction. Fnaf 6 sort of felt more grounded but everything after ucn was on that same crazy ridiculous level as SL. I'm still here for it but it's very different.

[@miniespeon158]

I love playing stardew valley while listening to u. The music from the game and ur podcast is like the perfect vibe

[@markiplieryaoi]

roxys endoskeleton wasnt actually changed btw, you can still find her original endoskeleton head underneath the new one so its more likely that the new head was something that was added to her after security breach that made her the final security node

[@obnoxas]

I tried to play fnaf 4 once when I was younger. I loaded into night 1 and immediately closed the game. It reopened itself somehow by the time I got out of the bathroom, and I refused to go near it until I died, at which point I quickly ran up and turned it off

[@zbrodie]

If you're having trouble coming up with a new theory each week, might I suggest setting up an AI to write episodes for you, housed in something sturdy like a Baobab tree perhaps?

[@gabr.7878]

I love FNAF so much, and this podcast is so perfect

[@RyeToast]

I'm glad!

[@Jesse-ej6jo]

Because you mentioned The Box: seeing how we actually got freaking Candy Cadet in Ruin; IN BEFORE Steel Wool puts that box in either Help Wanted 2 or whatever comes after Ruin.

[@chancelacoeur4151]

I'm so excited you started a podcast Ryetoast!! I was looking for good fnaf podcasts a few months ago and couldn't find anything, so I'm so excited one of my favorite creators is making one! I listen to podcasts primarily on Scribd but i will be giving likes both on KZbin and on there to help boost your algorithms and numbers!

[@Charliehotdog79]

My brain just realized that it makes no sense that the present in Freddy was there in the first place. Gregory was already in there, he got the Fazwatch and the present is gone once the chest is opened again! Is Freddy a portal?!

[@sarah_notheotherone8954]

100% watch your channel because of the way you present things lol I have a degree in creative writing which meant so many English and literature classes, so the way you explain things feels so clear and enjoyable. I rewatch your videos all the time on drives home from work so thanks !

[@ElizaBlakeney]

Loved the podcast! As a fan whose never played a game but has watched SOOOO many playthroughs and finally read the graphic novels of the Silver Eyes trilogy, I consider myself a huge fan of the series but acknowledge that others put in so much more work. I am a complete pansy when it comes to horror games or really in general...but I'm going to see the movie in theaters cuz I feel I owe it to myself and the series I've come to love. And can I please beg for you two to do a One Piece podcast? Even just one video talking about your thoughts and feelings?! As a long time One Piece fan, I was so excited to hear where you both were and what you were experiencing. And yes, I'm very upset that the big revel recently was so completely spoiled. I get people being excited but such disrespect to fans who only starting such a rewarding journey.

[@BuffShotgunsMW3]

I consider Fnaf 1 to pizzeria simulator to be the golden age.

[@hebbycakes]

I still wish the Puppet was the big villain. it would have been so cool to see all of those cables and cords and stuff come together as this horrific THING that was trying to end it all to protect people but had become so corrupted

[@sonjaimmonen6610]

I think FNAF being in the horror genre is one of the main reasons for the "fan without interacting with the games" phenomenon. I personally am really bad with scary games. Like the stress goes into my body so badly. Fnaf is a combination of game mechanics that I am so bad at. So I will rather watch someone else play to avoid that stress reaction.

[@vincentmorris8431]

In my first reaction to Ruin Bonnie Bowl, I exclaimed at a game over "gosh heck huckleberry honeysuckle darn it!" From Gravity Falls Ep 34 (it's honestly pretty tricky to say XD

[@Gooberpotomous]

One Piece pod? Heck yes! I've been sitting at the start-ish of Punk Hazard for a couple years. My fiance is pretty upset about it and reminds me at least once a week i should catch up 😂 I know basically everything that happens and I'm not worried about spoilers because with OP, the best bits are in the details

[@RyeToast]

Lol fair enough

[@hannahshark8080]

I think the feedback on Fnaf3's lackluster jumpscares is why Fnaf4's were so well animated and terrifying, especially Freddie's. That might be a hot take but being picked up and chomped really makes you feel small and helpless.

[@musichild]

I just also wanted to answer Toast’s question at 26:32 I’d consider myself more than a casual fan, like I listen to a theory here or there but like for a long time mostly on Mat Pat’s mainstream, and I had not read and still haven’t read any pizza plex books. But going into Ruin something didn’t feel right, like Gregory didn’t feel like Gregory to me, and I don’t know if it was intuition or what. I was surprised by the mimic and what they looked like, but wasn’t surprised it wasn’t Gregory. 2+2 wasn’t equaling 4 for me when we played as Cassie (since I finished ruin, I’ve been branching out on theories and buying the books to start reading

[@soomi5667]

There's a creator on here called ozone, who has done audiobooks for the books. ( at least most of tales and frights) So hopefully that's helpful. I should have a public playlist of them on my channel too :)

[@Sock-Monster-Simian]

Gasp! Dan. I agree entirely with how weird the narrative is in Ruin coming off of Security Breach. The way they introduced the Mimic felt really really awkward for the game series. I like the books, but the fact that you need the books to feel literally anything in Ruin I thought was a poor choice.

[@soomi5667]

I don’t think you need the books entirely tbh. Though if mimic was always the plan.. he should’ve been hinted at a little better lol.

[@ZYNGRAND]

I want Fnaf World 2. Fnaf World & UCN were both somewhat like galleries (Both with a large collection of characters, FW with the loading screen tips and UCN with the death lines), and I feel like Fnaf World 2 could act as a gallery for the "second era of Fnaf", just as FW1 was for the "first era" (Games 1-4) and UCN was for "Era 1.5" (Games 1-6). Since the game is so non-serious, it could be used as floor of knowledge. It's everything we're aware of in one place, with only minimal(?) new lore relevance. Of course, with virtual reality of "era two" and the digital nature of FW it could definitely become lore, but it would all be a lot more straightforward. I think it would be a breath of fresh air for the series right now, since it's been 4 games already. (SL, PS/F6, HW, SB+R, & soon HW2). I think it would be a great way for Steelwool/Scott to say things they can't really say. There's so much I could probably write about this. I think SB/SL crews would be your starter characters. It could be a digital pizzaplex hub world with different arcade game subworlds (like wreck it ralph). It could name drop Mimic. Helpy would replace fredbear as the guide character. Nightmarione could be a character, which would have lore implications. It would be funny if it was revealed Cassie was an animatronic through Fnaf World 2.

[@emeraldqueen1994]

I love the CHARACTER DESIGNS of FNAF 2….

[@RyeToast]

Totally valid

[@tanyaoxendine-hidalgo4120]

First, so glad to see two of my favorites together! What a great conversation you both had, and nice to hear a conversation about the game and franchise that wasn’t strictly about the lore. If you’re looking for a more “casual fan” and maybe you want to stick with another KZbinr, you could reach out to FootofaFerret. He’s a fan, but definitely does not get super into the nitty gritty of things. He could be a great person to talk to for that perspective.

[@AtenSol12]

i really liked the candid yt metric part of the convo

[@kevinglynn9593]

Ruin feels like what a DLC isn't suppose to be. Usually with DLCs you might get a little more lore or backstory into the original game or even a broader side quest that just builds more on the game itself. But Ruin feels like it's own game with no good conclusions which makes it not feel like a DLC.

[@ZapStrideGaming]

I got the silver eyes trilogy and the first 9 fazbear's frights books, plus a couple keychains and figures, all before i got the games. Not cuz i couldn't afford the games, as is obvious by how nany things i got over a few years before getting the games, but because i never gad enough money at one time to get a pc. So when the ports came out, i waited, git a switch from a friend of mine for cheap (they didn't care to keep it anymore they didnt need both a switch lite and a switch, so they sold the lite to me) and i got fnaf collection on switch of 1-SL. I also just recently got help wanted and security breach for switch for my birthday this year. I couldnt find 6 and ucn for switch at the time so i got the other 2. But yeah, i was watching videos on fnaf for years, got books and figures when i could, then finally got to play fnaf properly myself just last year. That's my story of how i was interacting for about 6 years after i first began watching fnaf content before i got access to the games that started it all. It's strange that some people who were fans for years are in some cases only now getting the games themselves and that some only supported fnaf financially via buying merch befire buying the games. But that's how it goes.

[@ellespoonies]

My theory is, the Mimic and Burntrap ARE the same. I believe the theory, personally, where the Mimic endo was added into the Golden Bonnie suit (and Afton’s corpse) by Vanny during Security Breach (leading to the black agony eyes we see in SB) and after the Blob scooped him up he left the Mimic in pieces and devoid of any remnant / agony, leading to the Mimic we see in Ruin. You could either choose to believe that the canon ending of SB is a mix of the Princess Quest ending and the Burntrap ending, or (what I believe) that Gregory knew about Burntrap to draw the comics because after Vanny was freed she quickly realized she needed to undo the damage that was done, and that was when she took Gregory downstairs to find the Mimic and expand MXES. At this point, when they opened the charging pod and tried to remove the Mimic, the Blob came through and scooped him leaving the Mimic endo behind for them to lock up.

[@AlexKlindt]

I strongly disagree with pokemon "always being a little mid" that sounds like sonic critiques ergo like 2010 to me in the vein of "its been a little mid for the better part of a decade now, I guess it was always that way." Game Freak's administrative structure typically worked very well for the sprite based games for a long time and started to fall off as the games demanded more budget and staff for 3D modeling work in part due to the company relying on 3rd party contractors rather than full time devs. The main teams actually making the pokemon games hasn't grown to accommodate the more demanding experiences and expectations and is padded by people who largely cannot leverage their experiences working on one mainline pokemon game into easing the development of the next one. Now the quality of the pokemon games has certainly gone back and forth over the years, but by and large they were developing excellent jrpgs for children for a long time. I like pokemon S/V a lot more than Sw/Sh, even if they're a little rough, but the company was really in their stride before the 3DS era and the closest they've ever gotten back to it was with gen 7.

[@Hex.A.Decimal]

I absolutely agree with this. But I am a member of TCRF and I am old as Pokemon. So old. Fossilized. Maybe older than Toast. I have seen too much. But LoZ probably wins for overall consistent good quality games.

[@AlexKlindt]

@@Hex.A.Decimal, I mean same. I'm pushing 30 over here. FNAF came out when I was in college and for some reason I'm still invested in Pizza Bear game. lol Tbh, I like the Zelda games pre-BOTW though. I slogged through BOTW and haven't even bought BOTW2. Then again, I just may be very unhappy with Nintendo as of late.

[@Johnny_Three-hats]

That's a really funny comparison to make, considering later in the video, around 59:45 he trots out the "Sonic games aren't good except for maybe four" chestnut, which I just consider erroneous at this point. Absolutely agreed on all points, and I don't think it'd be right to just nod along with this kind of thing when there's specific, measurable changes between games that can be traced back to things like inadequate staffing and experience.

[@AlexKlindt]

@@Johnny_Three-hats, yeah I was considering amending my comment when the podcast reached that point but I didn't because the sonic issue is significantly less well-defined. Like, I wouldn't call SA1 and 2 "hot trash." Shadow, maybe? '06 definitely. However, I don't feel a searing dislike for any of those games the way that I do with like... BDSP. In fact, I don't even think I dislike '06 if you were to press me. Granted, my first console was a genesis, so I kinda cut my teeth on 2D sonic platformers and I admit that Mania is probably the best game in the franchise.

[@moo7662]

I have a cousin who is a extreme casual fan of fnaf, yeah he had to come to me about ruin and the questions I had to explain after that left us with a 2 to 3 hour conversation lol

[@MorningDusk7734]

Hot take: Brazil should have been the failure state ending. If Mimic catches you, a cutscene plays that has Cassie put on the mask and then there’s more direct implications that what she sees is an escape fantasy.

[@LunaWitcherArt]

That would be too clear-cut, we all know FNAF don't work like that.

[@RyeToast]

That could be cool

[@pinknblackproductions]

The guys talking about how SteelWool may be trying to pull plot twists that we don’t see coming, and talking about GOT and Marvel and it is like a legit issue. Did you hear that Mr Fantastic was going to be in like the Wanda show or something but Disney heard that people were guessing that he was going to appear and just cut him out so no one would see the twists coming? So many media creators have this idea that no one should be able to sewed the twist and that’s wrong. But also if people knowing your plot twist means the media is unwatchable then thats on you. If your media is good, it shouldn’t really matter if people can see what story plot is coming. Not if its done right. And these guys seem to be hitting the nail on the head when it comes to the ‘problem’ of FNAF right now. They have too many ideas. Love the videos, btw. You lay things out so well.

[@krymsonuchiha14]

*the talking about the fans who haven't played through games* it makes me honestly feel very valid. For me, I mostly haven't played because I've been too scared, but my future roommate will be there while I play them probably next year. Other than that, I'm playing fnaf world first😂.

[@krymsonuchiha14]

Also, the funny thing is that the first game I ever finished was Sonic 1! I recently bought the first few on Steam so I can go back to my childhood ❤

[@aedaniammx7559]

I thought that Cybert had a shelf of Bionicle behind him for a solid hour and a minute.

[@33pandagamer]

I started out as a Sonic fan who hadn't played any of the Sonic games (aside from the first 2 levels of some classic Sonic games, but those games are not why I became a fan). I became a fan because I really like the story of the Sonic games (SA2 being my favorite). It wasn't until several years later that I could play some of them. I still view SA2 as my favorite Sonic game even after playing through most of it. Sonic Frontiers was the first Sonic game I played before watching all the cutscenes.

[@Hapsetshut]

Honestly, without the Afton's I don't think I would have ever gotten into the fandom they're what makes it interesting for me

[@Jade_TheCat]

I like FNAF 2 the same way I like Sonic Adventure 2. I've tried playing both, they're not for me, but I love what they added to their respective series and stories.

[@Hapsetshut]

Last five minutes turns into a one-piece podcast, we can't escape it, man

[@strisselstudios3932]

Youve heard of "The ghost with the most", now get ready for "The Host with the Toast" 🔥🔥🔥

[@thatleonardi]

omg its head editor dan from team theorist!

[@The12thCrashmaster]

0:00-0:15 - First 15 seconds:Shots Fired!

[@RyeToast]

True

[@lotuscat_]

(around) 42:00 so, which PT? PT on the PS4 or PT on the PC? Or are we talking PT for the PS4 but put on the PC? (if you were ever watching Dan's old twitch streams, you get the reference, and if you yourself see this, hello Dan, yee old astr0 still lives on.)

[@Zecteiro]

Well, I am one of those that likes FNAF theorizing, but played almost any of the games. Tbh, I not a horror guy, and most of the games seems kind mid to me. However I love the mystery. As strange as it may seem, the only one I played was FNaF World, because I am a huge RPG fan.

[@legogenius22]

I personally don't blame security breach for pulling away from the implication of a soft reboot, mainly with the introduction of vanny (which was cool and fine, do blame security for not leaning into her as a Villan) but some of the ports of help wanted started to imply glitchtrap was trully Willam afton. Not his agony, or a Ai mimicking him, or any remant but literally him. The evidence to me that most clearly shows glitchtrap is willam amd is in no way the mimic is that in the first version of princess quest includes him saying "I always come back". It is too narratively messy to me to have that be a copycat, especially, exluding fnaf 3s trailer, is only the 2nd time willam would "come back" with the only time him coming back otherwise being his appearance in fnaf 6. Thats just my mess of a take, really like the idea of mimic and glitchtrap fusing to be Burntrap is pretty perfect. If mimic was set up prior to security breach and implied at some point in security breach. I personally am not a fan of the mimic if it isn't connected to the puppet, henry, afton or sister location or something, because random endo we haven't seen before being a primary villan, being able to mimic or not is kinda lame. The tangle just leaving the chat until the next version of fnaf 6 is more cool even if its enard/molten freddy again where Molten MCI actually fits and isn't too conflictive. Oh well. Hope the movie is good.

[@legogenius22]

In 30 minutes this got 2 likes wow this comments section is based I thought I'd be teared to shreds by now

[@soomi5667]

I'm really in between of the intentions of it being Afton or just a poorly done way of making the mimic's character known. Though there's a lot of it saying it was Afton? Confusing stuff lol. Also I think the mimic being not directly connected to the characters we know isn't a bad thing. He still can be connected to the past in a way. But I don't personally mind if it's not through characters we know.

[@legogenius22]

​@@soomi5667I agree with your first sentiment, but have planted myself into the afton camp so hard it leads into my stance around the mimic. I completely understand the want for a new villan, but if they leave all the clearly willam afton pointing stuff over multiple games at this point just machete order it (sw thing, just means chopping off of a significant story beat to course correct for what comes later, at least in the way I'm using it) it feels so narratively crappy to me, I wouldn't want to see where things go when all the buildup feels like it's been tossed out the window because people raged about burntrap existing. At least the tangle exists. There still pre kewl :)

[@soomi5667]

Understandable lol. Tbh I can get the stance since it did seem like afton was coming back and the stuff glitchtrap said was very afton-like. I think if the plan was always mimic, they should’ve made it way more clear this was the case. Regardless, I don’t hate mimic being here. I actually love the character but.. you got valid points anyway. And yeah tangle is pretty neat. :)

[@gl7280]

I think most people have missed the fact that Scott has said more than once that it's not about solving fnaf its about enjoying it.

[@Kaylee-Renee]

My problem with fnaf is each game adds more questions with very little information to actually answer. When the lore of a story is so vague despite many years of games and books then it's not good story telling. Very little is confirmed we don't even know the order of the games. At this stage I don't know if scott cawthon has just been trolling us all along and never intended for it to be solved or is he just a bad story teller and is hoping the theorist will put it together in a way the community likes without him having to figure out the mess. What is the point investing time and money into something that always leaves you unsatisfied. At the start it was fun speculating but it's getting old.

[@darksplash873]

I feel like overwatch is another game that had a lot of fans of the lore and the characters who never played the game, back in the day I’ve met multiple people online and irl who loved to talk about it but never played it. Back when they used to regularly release comics and cinematics…

[@cosmictheorist6091]

I never played any or the FNaF game other then security breach and the blob ending had me really confused and wondering was the rabbit gonna be a new phase or from of the boss. But he was nothing other showing me I can get eaten. So I was like why'd that guy even have cutscenes.

[@LunaWitcherArt]

You. You are valid. Security Breach and Ruin fail where Help Wanted and all the others before succeeded: the main story is not contained. Suddenly I need to have read the books and played the previous games and known the lore and the theories. No other game had that. Even Sister Location only dropped one book reference and it was in the opening cutscene: bad guy from book = bad guy from game and that was it. The new game and DLC just feel like a collection of easter eggs only for the dedicated fans and nothing to hook the new players.

[@RyeToast]

That's totally fair. I hadn't really thought about that before

[@lilaott6495]

it feels like every Ruin ending they cut it off right before any answers show

[@ReskellAntennaMutt]

Hey there! I don't often comment on...well any KZbin videos nowadays. I don't feel like it's a platform that actively encourages it honestly, BUT! That ALL being said haha! I wanted to say thank-you for choosing and answering my comment! :D That was super awesome, I was drawing away with this on as my usual background noise and heard my name! Really appreciated such a in-depth answer as well. See you for the next episode! :D

[@RyeToast]

Thank /you/ for your question! I'm glad you're enjoying the podcast 🙂

[@hypemugen]

I apologize for pointing this out, but Ryetoast really reminds me of the girl that runs the channel by the name of "Lisa asmr". Almost liket they're twins lol.

[@RyeToast]

Interesting. I don't see it but you're valid lol

[@codynelson7575]

Calling Pokémon Mid is just, such a bad take

[@DeltaZard123]

59:53 as someone who's been a Sonic fan their whole life, I couldn't agree more

[@colalook8749]

loving the new long form :)

[@LadyBernkastel92]

Sometimes expectations are good, and by subverting them you're actively making a worse product to 'surprise' people.

[@ZYNGRAND]

The best focus group for those who only have the surface knowledge of the games, but not the in depth lore are Let's-Players. People like Markiplier. He for instance had no clue what the mimic was at all. I would assume most of the people like him would be at the same level of knowledge.

[@StanThePrincess]

Finally met another person whose favorite FF game is 13. Good choice

[@RyeToast]

I really like Snow

[@aqwkingchampion13]

Of the three FNAF games I’ve played (namely, 1-3) I actually enjoyed FNAF 2 more than the others. That said, I also hate 2 with a burning passion because I played on mobile and there’s a night 6 bug on mobile allowing Foxy to jump you even when he shouldn’t.

[@Markcrazeer]

here is the problem with the bite of 87. the bite victim lives. crying child doesnt. meaning the question becomes, do we want to see an animatronic bite a child to death (or dying from his wounds in the hospital after weeks of pain or coma) or do you want the bite of 87?

[@33pandagamer]

I consider myself a FNAF fan despite never paying any of the games. As for the books, I have read 1 Fasbear frights, and free samples (aka a couple of pages) of the novels, that's it.