WHEN SAM HARRIS EXPOSED JORDAN PETERSON'S DISHONESTY!?

[@Pangburn]

Watch our most recent event ALEX O'CONNOR VS DINESH D'SOUZA here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i36unItuprd7qdksi=Rcf7uZfmNgvqXpTq

[@noobalarm9948]

when did sam harris expose jordan peterson's dishonesty!?

[@BrianDelaney-e7v]

Agreed 💯💯

[@chocolatestraw3971]

"I don't know why you would be sure of what someone believes." - Jordan Peterson to Sam Harris "YOU'RE NOT REALLY AN ATHEIST!" - Jordan Peterson to Matt Dillahunty

[@dkbgeek]

Logical consistency is for normies. Don't you know he's a super genius? 🤣

[@freiheit3]

Common pretending that he's answering the point of the question while talking about another point to confuse everyone and avoid answering. Sam is asking about any clear idea of what he believes. and he responds by arguing no one can have 100% accurate idea of all beliefs of someone else.

[@TheirIAre]

Yep 😂😂😂

[@WhosPloxity]

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing. The most basic philosophers know this.

[@christophergreen6595]

I've been subjected to confusingly long arguments from Petersonians that finally boil down to the jackass claim that "well science is a religion, too! You just believe things on faith. You have faith that the models are somewhat accurate, that logic is logical! That's a religion!"

[@colinellis9063]

'I've never seen people applaud an evasion before!'

[@CHDean]

JP isn’t evading. The answer is thorough and thoughtful.

[@PlaceStillMatters]

⁠​⁠@@CHDean:: JP just stops talking to SH and appeals to group think (a sympathetic audience) for support. It’s not thoughtful to use appeals to ignorance and false dilemmas, as both logical fallacies.

[@JL-xz3zf]

@@CHDean I like JP but come on, he got destroyed here.

[@myguitardetective5961]

@@CHDeanIt was neither thorough or thoughtful. I wish they’d debated the ten sentences of the story of Cain and Abel that Jordan, for some incomprehensible reason, thinks is more profound than the writings of Shakespeare (which, clearly, is an utterly ludicrous and unsupportable claim).

[@9y2bgy]

@@CHDean "I got nothing to rebut Sam's point, so I should appeal to the wider audience and get some applause to bolster my ego and retain some semblance of credibility."

[@saxon681]

Sam: Did Jesus die on the cross and come back to life? Jordan: He is still dying on the cross! Sam: Was he the son of God? Jordan: What do you mean God and what you mean by son? Utter over intellectual word salad nonsense.

[@adon2424]

Dr. Peterson is confusing the socratic method with honest discourse. To brow beat the audience and accuse each individual of not knowing who they are, is just as detached from reality as the gender identity crisis.

[@melaniehunttermatch4452]

@saxon681 LOL exactly. But the frustrating part is that he was participating in the discussion before he felt cornered/intimidated etc and decided to question what reality is as a response

[@failchanelldd6499]

I always like to say that he is the most influential postmodernist

[@frasermacdonald6614]

That's Jordan's shtick: he makes grandiose, provocative statements, then skuttles away when challenged, muttering "You can't really know anything about anything".

[@haraldschuster3067]

@@frasermacdonald6614 - Which, unfortunately, doesn't stop him from talking about it and making money with it.

[@FinanceFree-ii5un]

JP: “ How do I answer these questions without losing half of my Patreon supporters?” 🤔

[@RandomNooby]

Nailed it...

[@desalines]

Not to mention my book sales

[@allanwilson8878]

Very good. Exactly right.

[@KeinuSulttaani]

Jordan Patreonson

[@doccock1662]

Exactly

[@joelodjick230]

Sam: "Is the Bible a work of God or a work of human beings?" Jordan: "Yes"

[@ShmuelMunkes]

Except he literally answered the question he thinks the bible was written by many humans over millennia

[@joelodjick230]

@chnow78 Didn't hear that at all. I heard him say that's how he thought the part about Cain and Abel COULD have been written because apparently no human alive was capable of writing such a wise thing in only 10 sentences (???). As for the Bible as a whole all I heard was a lot of dodging.

[@professornuke7562]

Well, whaaat do you mean by "God"? And whaaat do you mean by "work?"

[@ColinFox]

@@professornuke7562 God as portrayed in the bible - who apparently created the entire universe in 7 days, and created the earth BEFORE the sun, and somehow light before the sun as well, all kinds of crazy stupid impossible nonsense - THAT God. The one that Christians think they believe in.

[@avishevin1976]

@@ColinFox The prof was parodying Peterson's predilection for arguing definitions instead of answering questions.

[@rugaothegreat]

If only Hitchens was alive so he could have a debate with JP and “hitchslap” him, life is so unfair

[@LD-qj2te]

god ( no pun intended) i think that everyday !!

[@countchoculitis1528]

He would be so much less polite about it than Sam 😂

[@pault7538]

Sam challenged him and then didn't let him get a word in. I was waiting for Peterson to explain himself but he never does.

[@rugaothegreat]

@@pault7538 but that happens a lot, JP likes the sound of his own voice so much, that he speaks nonstop but never get to an answer, specially when it comes to religion, he did the same thing with Matt Dillahunty

[@rugaothegreat]

@randomletter-5i4 What harm has Atheism done to humanity? What harm has Religion done to humanity? A LOT and it still does, are you unaware of the wars around the world caused by religion?

[@toddpence7666]

Somebody please save Jordan Peterson from himself. It is painful to watch him try to dialog with Sam Harris. He just cannot answer a question. Sam Harris is always reasonable, congenial, and on point in these discussions.

[@carolynking5470]

Oddly, he doesn't realise that he's losing the argument. I guess that as long as he doesn't admit it, his admirers think he is winning.

[@jessee7334]

Says the idiot that can't spell "dialogue" properly lol hater

[@91GT347]

​@@carolynking5470How so ? He asked a question. He explained why the question was unanswerable. Sam just refused the answer. Saying he was deflecting. While simultaneously agreeing it was unanswerable. That doesn't sound like him winning, at all.

[@Bonzeaux_Bleuxgrene]

@@91GT347on the surface, you're right. But that doesn't mean he is not losing the argument. When you actually listen to what they are both saying, it's obvious Sam Harris is more intelligent

[@WhosPloxity]

@@91GT347 They don't believe in unanswerable questions. Genuinely, they believe everything can be proven through science and has a direct English answer, ironically deifying science.

[@mithilbhoras5951]

Jordan: *angry kermit noises* Audience: *mindless applause*

[@ConspiracyGamesAndPodcastClips]

It just sounds like a clapback so they responded appropriately 😅

[@bevonkacon17]

that's hilarious.

[@mmacintosh]

Literally laughed out loud at this one.

[@westerling8436]

my finger smells like wine

[@BeefT-Sq]

"Reason, the faculty that identifies and integrates the material provided by the senses, is man's basic tool of survival." -Nathaniel Branden-

[@patrickrichard5948]

JP is great at turning a debate about religion into a debate about linguistics

[@thisguy4911]

@@patrickrichard5948 last time I checked all religions are based on words from books so maybe linguistics is important lol. Books are words lol. So deciphering language is very important when discussing religion. Your comment sounds pretty lame.

[@exi8550]

​@@thisguy4911 he's saying JP deliberately makes the conversation about semantics and then gives outlandish definitions for his words, which derails the conversation and takes it further away from the subject at hand. rather than discuss why he thinks atheists don't exist, he simply tries to redefine the term 'atheist' and bog down the flow of the conversation.

[@kendrickjahn1261]

@@thisguy4911 He's talking about dodging the topic, genius.

[@thisguy4911]

@@kendrickjahn1261I get what y'all are attempting to say genius. Just a false assessment. Also why are you over explaining lol. Let's look at the definition of linguistics and religion lol do you know what those words mean lol.

[@thisguy4911]

@@exi8550 you sound like jp extrapolating bro calm down

[@SimonLloydGuitar]

Peterson departs from logic and reason when it comes to religion.

[@facundopitton9011]

And trans people. Dat happens because he believe in god based on personal experiencie, like is a fact. There is no faith in there, cause faith is inexplicable, if you can prove what you believe there is no faith, there is a fact.

[@bigfriki]

Not just religion...

[@DonVintaggio]

well religion is by definition opposed to reason, so what are you expecting?

[@Diashi1267]

Jordan definitely is fighting an uphill battle with his view on religion. His relationship to religion is on such an intuitive, almost ephemeral level that words fail. He’s trying to use a concrete system of symbols (words) to describe a concept so abstract that to describe it in those terms is to lose some of the information. He’s set up for failure in some sense

[@antlerr]

​@@DonVintaggioif you didn't say I would have called them on there falling for a snakeoil salesman....

[@tomcooper6108]

Begging for an honest answer from Peterson is like asking God to appear physically......it ain't gonna happen, ever.

[@BuckScrotumn]

😂😂😂

[@rg2884]

The irony: theists clapping wildly for Peterson evading an answer. But they don’t know what he believes in - besides delicious word salads of course.

[@alexrecalde3420]

Where did he evade? The loser that runs this channel stopped it too soon.

[@justsomedude4469]

I don't think we watched the same thing. Peterson is pro God but believes God assisted on writing the Bible but over many years (a few thousand) has been altered by humans making it a collaboration of human and God's intelligence. That was the whole argument and perspective. It's very simple to understand he just says big words for ego reasons like a lot of people. It's ok you couldn't understand but his points are usually at the end of a sentence

[@rg2884]

@ Thanks for the explanation. I would also like to know why an all-knowing God who knows the future partially wrote a Bible so confusing that there are 45,000 Christian denominations all claiming to be the truth? And then why of all people does he send Peterson to give word salad explanations for theism? Sounds like your immaculate being ain’t so perfect.

[@scouser2230]

I find Peterson annoying. He tries to camouflage his BS by using “fancy” language.

[@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2je]

it's just "fancy" to you because you're uneducated. maybe this conversation is not suited for you.

[@davespanksalot8413]

He was a pretty mediocre academic and not a very good clinician, either.

[@BodTheGrinch]

It's truly depressing that so many people absolutely worship the man, apparently unable to recognise how clueless he is. Like in this example, it's so obvious that Peterson has completely got himself on a tangle. OK, so we can't articulate the true nature of ourselves or our thoughts to apparently such a degree that Sam's question is moot? In that case this entire event, and everything Peterson does, which exclusively imvolves expressing thoughts and ideas, is utterly pointless. So why is he here? It is mind blowing that the audience are too dim to notice that, and instead applaud the man like he just dropped the wisdom bomb of the century. Sigh.

[@askemilskovgaard160]

Totally... His self centered interlectual masturbation cannot cover up his lact of true wisdom.

[@paulrawlinson8653]

It's called sophistry.

[@SimonLloydGuitar]

Ben Stiller 1 Kermit 0

[@KingCamilloSnufkin]

Jordan Peterson: 0 Micheal Jordan: 6

[@drcrocodile1]

hahahaha

[@hlbjk]

Fuck me, that's hilarious.

[@zaum2002]

Word

[@andraspal]

I love both of them, I dont even agree at all, but 'ey, this is a really funny comment;-)

[@DarrenCondron]

People clapping for Jordan have no idea what he’s talking about

[@MichaelWilliams-jc2ui]

What you’re actually saying is you have no idea what he’s talking about!

[@PrometheanAct]

No, he is not. @@MichaelWilliams-jc2ui

[@FFXIK]

They really don't, it's just word salad.

[@markfeland2285]

Neither does he

[@JasonS42]

I imagine that for them, the content of his speech is irrelevant. What matters is that he passionately disagreed with the other guy with "strength" and "conviction".

[@antonysherry4267]

Watching JP go from a respected conservative commentator to utter crackpot has been one hell of a journey... 😂

[@TimOMahony-df8qh]

I couldn't articulate that better myself! 👍

[@allanh7137]

He’s always been full of shit. I first encountered him when I was deep into the study of epistemology and metaphysics. He rang so many warning bells from day one.

[@antonysherry4267]

@allanh7137 he just plays verbal gymnastics. Or verbal diarrhea if you want to be crass about it... ;) But yeah, he's an idiot. Trying to tell atheist artists that they do believe I'm God, they just dont know it. All art has to have come from a "higher power", completely disregarding the talent and genius of the individual. He can't see outside of his own constructed narrative of how things work. If you disagree, it's because you're just Ignorant. He's a fool, fo sho. ✌️

[@copyright8291]

He was never conservative tho, nor did he pretend to be. He identified as a classic liberal... which you could say that today means conservative, at least in the US and Canada, but it's pretty far from it.

[@BeefT-Sq]

"A man of self-esteem and sovereign conciousness deals with reality, with nature, with an objective universe of facts; he holds his mind as his tool of survival and develops his ability to think". -Nathaniel Branden-1967

[@rickjones3340]

The idea that the story of Cain and Abel could not have been written by a human is amazingly preposterous.

[@iceshadow487]

The fact he thinks the story is "impossible to write" instead of him just overanalyzing and putting it on a pedestal is baffling to me

[@MisterG2323]

That's Peterson's SOP: baffle them with bullshit. It's a good thing that the man craves fame and adulation over money and power; he'd be very dangerous otherwise. As it is, he's an erudite crank with pretensions of replacing Ayn Rand in the pantheon of intellectual grifters.@@iceshadow487

[@MalawisLilleKanal]

I think Moby Dick could not have been written by a human, and should be included in the bible.

[@terryhays3765]

In fair Eden, where we lay our scene, Two brothers dwelled, of Adam's seed so keen. Cain, the elder, tilled the earth with might, While Abel, the younger, kept his flocks alight. Both brought offerings to the Lord on high, Cain from his harvest, Abel from the sky. But God, in His wisdom, favored one alone, And Cain's offering, He did not condone. Enraged with envy, Cain's heart did seethe, As Abel's offering found favor beneath. In fields of green, with malice in his eye, Cain led his brother to where shadows lie. With wicked hand, he struck his brother low, And Abel fell, his life's blood in tow. "Am I my brother's keeper?" Cain did ask, As God's judgment fell upon his twisted task. Cursed to wander, marked by God's decree, Cain roamed the earth, forever to flee. Yet even in his exile, he built a city grand, A testament to the folly of his hand. So let this tale be a warning, clear and true, Of envy's poison and the evil it can brew. For even brothers, bound by blood and kin, Can fall to darkness and the wages of sin.

[@marcusbrsp]

Agreed! Even a human being using a cane would be able to write it.

[@tonyclif1]

Peterson's Cain and Abel comment is a great example of the fallacy from incredulity

[@edorourke9223]

I would say "feigned incredulity", but yeah.

[@shacktime]

It’s pure comedy gold that he insists upon the “incredible wisdom” encapsulated in that brief story relative to everything that has followed it. Peterson is one of the most feeble and pathetic people I’ve ever seen command so much attention from so many people… who should know better.

[@andrewpereira9271]

Yeah, Cain and Abel must be divine because it's so short. So is the Gettysburg Address. It's called an effective writing style.

[@Sauvenil]

@@andrewpereira9271Effective writing style comes only from humans, who have created all of the rules around it in the first place. It's only "incredible wisdom" because human language has made it that way. A "God" may not even understand it because WE created it.

[@afh001]

Exactly. His intellect, as feeble and fragile as it is, exists in his performative nature, not actual insight. Weirdly a large audience gets off on this censorious dullard's barbed inanities. @@shacktime

[@prestonscott73]

Sam is staying characteristically calm, when you know he really wants to say, “what the hell is this guy talking about?”

[@Matthew-cp2eg]

Sam jist stumbles over his words like the mean something, maybe he'll make sense one day.

[@jaybingham3711]

​@@Matthew-cp2egI could see someone thinking that. Particularly someone not very familiar with his oral discourse. Or unfamiliar with scientific-based prose. Sam has a PhD in neuroscience. So, Sam's training has oriented him toward having concern for exacting words. And his ability to find and offer up such words is unrivaled. It's very much the opposite of stumbling. It's just a personal style. And with it comes a certain cadence. It's a cadence rooted in care. The exact opposite of JP who believes carnival barker, rapid fire oral diarrhea is the best style to make use of. Precisely because he's aware many will be wowed by it. At base, it's ultimately nothing but an oral shell game. Only, his game is played without a ball.

​@Matthew-cp2eg One might think you weren't listening

[@davesmith826]

@@Matthew-cp2eg He makes perfect sense to me - much more than Peterson, in fact.

[@keith.anthony.infinity.h]

@@jaybingham3711The fact he has a PhD in neuroscience says a lot about his reaction to Mr. Peterson’s rambling on the human mind.

[@AndrewHill-ly2mh]

“Of those with nothing to say, few are silent”. Peterson spends his entire public life using a huge number of ‘clever’ words to say absolutely nothing.

[@TheDatabaseDude]

Example please.

[@tsrnikrug]

@@TheDatabaseDude watch the video.

[@marlenerowell3716]

So true...

[@competiti22]

if you think he as nothing to say, i dont think you understand him, not that one could blame you of that

[@herculesbrofister265]

@@competiti22 here's what people like you do. you watch these videos of people like peterson, tulsi, vance and so on. you take all of their vague, incomplete comments and you interpret in a way that fits your preexisting beliefs. it's like referencing "they." depending on who from his audience you ask, the same alex jones reference to "they" could be zionists, illuminati, rich liberals, progressives in general, etc. that's precisely why when trump was playing that "rich men north of richmond" song, the writer had to come out and flat out say it's about people like him and his friends. you thought it was about everybody else. and quite frankly i think these grifters like peterson, tulsi, etc do it intentionally. but that's why the rest of us watch these and are like "i don't even know what you believe", "he's not really saying anything", etc, because we don't fill in the gaps with our own beliefs

[@anthonyarcher4744]

I'm always wary of those who have fallen in love with their own intellect.

[@huibwetzel9299]

🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯

[@jimjamespaultyrone]

I’m even more wary of those who choose ignorance.

[@anthonyarcher4744]

@@jimjamespaultyrone ...I wasn't aware it was a binary choice.

[@theCommentDevil]

It's always the end of their ability to reason.

[@rumbobbie1]

Nobody asked anybody to choose anything.

[@jerryeberts]

Peterson is scared to say that rubbish to Sam’s face so he gets “angry” at the audience. What a literal & intellectual coward.

[@djimiwreybigsby5263]

He just went kuku when Canada "re-educated" him

[@acegikm]

I don't know how anyone can stand listening to his weak and slimy voice.

[@BeefT-Sq]

"Philosophers are conducting an impassioned crusade for myopia as the highest intellectual virtue---for the progressive shrinking of man's vision and the progressive divorcement of thought from reality." -Nathaniel Branden-

[@HighPriestess-aq]

I had to rewind to understand if he was actually answering an audience question. Why he was mad at...them? Lol.

[@prototype8137]

​@@HighPriestess-aqwhat's wrong with you people. He wasnt mad at the audience he was agitated and frustrated. That was his tone. And rightfully so. Did you not hear the crowd react after he made his point? Then Sam could just scream evasion! Totally muting the point which wasnt evasion but sometimes you need to explain something prior to making a point... You guys are linear minded or bots.

[@JG-zt3cg]

JP is Mr. Word Salad.

[@samh.6272]

Exactly.

[@jnagarya519]

He's a bullshitter.

[@dublinvids5146]

.. or maybe your comprehension skills are lacking.

[@samh.6272]

@@dublinvids5146 Or maybe you 'just like to insult people who don't share your perspective. A trained professional can spot the errors in JP's thinking a mile a way. He might trick the untrained person, but not the ones who share the same credentials. It's too bad you didn't spot it, but that's how JP has gotten away with it for so long. That's what he does best: He tricks people into believing he is some kind of Guru for fame and wealth. His time is almost up though, people are beginning to see him for his true self. A masterful liar and conman who gets his kicks out of fooling people. Plain and simple, a sociopath.

[@jnagarya519]

@@dublinvids5146 Some of us recognize bullshit for what it is: bullshit. Peterson uses big words and convoluted incoherencies to impress those who love to be bullshitted.

[@myksyk]

Peterson's obfuscation betrays an almost mischievous committment to being as incoherent as possible.

[@equinoxproject2284]

Haha…mischievous commitment… nail on the head.

[@user-gh8is1up9m]

Yeah, he's clearly attempting to spread something he knows aren't truths.

[@eNuff_Said]

Agreed. Just like Ben Shapiro. Both wannabe intellectuals. BBB.

[@nathankirch8679]

Well said. I don’t think I’ve ever heard Peterson more accurately described.

[@TheDatabaseDude]

Example Please

[@greenwizardneedsfood8852]

I love how Sam looks at Jordan when he asks a question, but Jordan looks to the audience to ham it up while he doesn't answer the questions.

[@c.galindo9639]

Because the critic gains their ground by the appraisal of the audience which is why he engaged with the audience and even he agreed JP was correct in his assertion of the question so it is very much a stalemate

[@_edijane_]

Yeah it’s kind of rude. He’s not looking at the man he’s talking to.

[@thomasnesmith5426]

He can't convince experts so he appeals to the masses for authority. Populists are everywhere. James Tour is another person just like JP.

[@nimim.markomikkila1673]

Yes, he asserted something, which is true, BUT dodged the question, That´s the point here, I think. JP also raised his voice, which could be seen as a tactic to scare the opponent. @@c.galindo9639

[@ArThur_hara]

Recently I decided to follow my instinct more, the brain notices when something is off, and yeah, even though I appreciate the work he does why, why would you talk to the audience and not watch your fellow debater in the eyes D:

[@SleepyMatt-zzz]

I find it puzzling that Jordan Peterson constantly states that "you can't be sure of anything", yet has always spoken about issues with absolute certainty, such as many of his arguments in this video, his political beliefs, and his rigid beliefs on gender and what he views as "Western civilization". He used to always say that people should speak with clarity, but I don't think the dude has ever had a clear thought in his life.

[@James_36]

rigid beliefs on gender 🤣

[@scoontaquex3388]

I think this is one of the best criticisms I've seen of Jordan so far - he certainly doesn't hold the same standard of certainty to different topics he talks on. I am always puzzled, however, when people make statements like "I don't think the dude has ever had a clear thought in his life" and expect anyone to take them seriously. Weird pairing of clear insight and willful ignorance.

[@chriswilliams1096]

I think what he is saying is, " YOU" can't be sure of anything but "I" can. That might make be useful definition of arrogance.

[@CodeLife_12]

His whole "you never know!" argument is a deflection he uses when he knows he's losing an argument. After a couple of time he uses that strategy it becomes very apparent. I remember an interview when he was asked "do you believe in God?" and his answer was "What do you mean bye God? What do you mean by Believe? What do you mean by You?". This is just ridiculous and a lack of respect to his interlocutor.

[@chrispalmer7893]

@@scoontaquex3388 Peterson has often said that you shouldn't draw conclusions from a single point of data, and yet he does it all the time. He take a single, context-free factoid and claims it as the justificaiton for whatever outrageous nonsense will get him the most attention (and ultimately make hi the most money).

[@livealoha50f]

Wow. That Jordan dude is so incoherent, I still think he’s a performance artist. He never says anything, he talks in incoherent circles.

[@anniegoulaheee8025]

Grandiose narcissist.

[@sandranettles4833]

Goes right over your head 😅

[@exhibitD79]

''Word Salad'' is my favourite description of his style

[@EspiritualidadCiencia]

But oh he can ramble in an almost musical verbiage

[@noyfb4769]

Deep down he knows he's full of shit and out of his depth, so incessantly babbling bullshit over top of his debate opponent is his best strategy.

[@royglenn2487]

Sorry. I just had to say that, I’m Canadian and I want to apologize for this Jordon guy.

[@carlorizzo827]

Aww! Guffaw it's not Canada's fault!

[@moneygang6135]

He smart man but he needs to drop religión stuff.

[@Thomas-ed5fi]

Apology accepted.

[@TimSimms7]

No worries, every country’s got a bunch of ‘em.

[@roems6396]

@@moneygang6135 He has lost his mind. He is educated, but he is a dumb smart person at this point. He says so many silly things these days.

[@antiochiaadtaurum3786]

narcissistic collapse incoming

[@MikeFuller-ok6ok]

What do you mean?

[@platoscavealum902]

🙉 Plenty of his #FlyingMonkeys will be around for a while. They will provide enough #NarcissisticSupply for Jordan Peterson to keep going and make him feel like he is making a positive difference in this world. I don’t see a narcissistic collapse coming as he is making plenty of money from his followers right now. If he gets addicted to a drug again, then there would be more of a possibility of a "collapse."

[@haydenwalton2766]

watch this space

[@lynfielddentalcentre4229]

Yes, Sam Harris is collapsing in a narcissistic puddle

[@haydenwalton2766]

@@lynfielddentalcentre4229 yeah, about 10 miles behind jordan

[@Bernedhot]

This is why Peterson rarely debates people who know how to debate

[@kayvee256]

Yep. His debate with Matt Dillahunty was a massacre.

[@daemonthorn5888]

Do you not know the difference between a debate and a discussion? This was not a debate. It was a discussion. The goal of a discussion is not to "win". A discussion is a back and forth sharing of thoughts and ideas. They were not trying to convince one another of anything. Nor were they trying to score points or defeat the other. It sickens me how people can not watch two people discuss their ideas and thoughts on a subject without, for some strange, infantile reason, getting upset and angry, and hating on one participant or another . The people that think and behave this way are very easy to spot here, in the comments. They make up the bulk of the comments left. Rare is it that I find a comment that even approaches intelligence, or a genuine want for understanding, or insight. Instead of taking in everything being said, and trying to understand where each person is coming from, and mulling over their meaning and thought process, in the endeavor to learn something from it, themselves I, instead, see the sort of comments one would expect to find from sports fans espousing their heroes, or decrying the opposing team. And there also seems to be an abundance of people that can't, or wont, even consider that maybe the conversation is too smart for them. Instead they'll accuse the speaker of being incoherent, or of "trying to use big words to disguise their BS, bla bla bla". I can assure you , neither of these men is "trying to use big words". Just because you don't understand something, that does not mean that what is being said is, "incoherent". It may just mean that you're not intelligent enough to understand what is being said. Obviously there are many people in this world that are not very bright. I think it's fair to say that these types of people outnumber the intelligent by a fairly large degree. Yet you will almost never see an honest comment, where someone admits to the things being said going right over their heads. Instead, the problem is always with the one speaking. They're just "spouting fancy words", or "trying to sound profound". It's ridiculous. This comment will be attacked the same way. But I'm fairly certain the only ones that will attack it are the same lot of which I speak. If they don't agree with someone, or some thing, they attack it. Instead of taking everything in as a possible learning experience. Or coming in with a genuine curiosity they, instead, stamp their feet and spit at anything they don't understand or agree with.

[@evetsegap]

@@daemonthorn5888 Face it, you and Peterson are over the heads of most of these people.

[@mandarine1858]

​@@daemonthorn5888I can understand your Point that it is important to understand both sides and to try to listen to both sides instead of supporting just one of them. The problem in the debates with Jordan Peterson is not only that he uses complicated language and concepts which are difficult for most people to understand (I am a german so I also sometimes struggle with complicated words. ) The problem is that he never takes a clear position which he can defend in the following debate. Rather he just stays vague and tells his 'opponent' that These questions require a very difficult sollution instead of defining what he believes. On that basis you can hardly discuss some clear concepts, instead you have to stay vague which is very annoying.

[@davesmith826]

@@daemonthorn5888 No one is contesting Peterson's intelligence. What can be contested is his reasoning and arguments. You may not see the inherent cowardice in his position, but I do. And before you tell me I'm not smart enough to understand, I've got three degrees and a PhD and am tenured in one of the world's best universities.

[@chrisose]

Peterson reacts to criticism of his presentation precisely like every other conman in history, by gaslighting everyone within earshot.

[@c.galindo9639]

Well seeing as the man critiquing him finds fault in a lot of things made by people. Of course he will focus on the faults of JP but that’s why JP responded in such a way because humans are flawed beings. Anyone can have something considered wrong by another and giving into that is giving the critic more “power” to appear they’re right but they’re just picking and choosing what to aim the argument towards

[@chrisose]

@@c.galindo9639 I'm surprised you can reach a keyboard from your position so far up Peterson's backside.

[@joshua9490]

@@c.galindo9639if he can’t articulate his beliefs he should probably stop telling others how to live their life.

[@c.galindo9639]

@@chrisose uh yeah. Ok if you think that. Although I side with the side of the Bible I do admire JP in how he intellectually conveys the importance of the Bible in society. That being said. Having an astute observation of both sides doesn’t make me “so far up someone’s behind” but more so that I have better analytical observation skills than your simple minded opinion that constitutes nothing towards an intellectual observation. Maybe have an actual argument rather than a reactionary argument you would seem much more intelligent here

[@c.galindo9639]

@@joshua9490 yes one can articulate their beliefs yet any critic for the sake of criticizing can gain the praise of their side for those against those who have their beliefs. Like you apparently do against JP for his beliefs. Now explain to me what is so wrong about the Bible suggesting people do better themselves in righteous, virtuous manners to benefit their relationship with God in better understanding their purpose to not inly uplift themselves but others they help relieve suffering from through their understanding and by those actions will help spread positive moral beliefs to better the sake of humanity amongst all people?

[@casestudymtb]

I love Peterson's assertion that we can't full articulate ourselves, as so much of what happens internally is subconscious, but then speaks about artists creating art, as though a conduit for a higher power, yet he somehow can't believe in the possibilty that the subconscious IS that higher power.

[@johnh4243]

That’s an interesting observation. Thanks for sharing it.

[@scottoshea9440]

Watching Jordan reminded me of the W.C. Fields quote "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit".

[@CanKicker68]

He has made a good living from that schick.

[@ThroughtheLookingGlass-yg2fj]

It's all about the money.

[@tonyclif1]

EVERY time!

[@Bargerland]

He doesn't even sound like he believes himself. I'm convinced that he's an atheist who believes religion is still needed for the feeble minded. He hides behind a blanket of nonsense.

[@marymarymary9377]

THIS! 😂😂😂😂😂

[@Crashawsome]

If Cain and Abel is too complex for Jordan, just wait until he finds out about Xenu

[@andrejasironic4561]

Hahahaha!

[@rjlchristie]

He wasn't even asked about them, but his automatic reflex diversion skills immediately brought them into the picture. It was probably a more credible sounding fantasy than Adam and Eve.

[@agnieszkaniemira]

LOL

dude xD

[@HusamSimaan]

Haha. That would intellectually hog tie him . 🎉

[@tracybenson6364]

I look forward to the day that intelligent thoughtful people no longer give Jordan Peterson a platform.

[@ainsleymccullagh8939]

Jordan uses rhetorical BS and stupid people think he's on to something

[@milart12]

I know. I never understood the appeal of Jordan Peterson.

[@moxenrider]

I could explain it legitimately if you are curious, but I don’t think people that like sam harris and don’t like him, will get it. I like both and both equally disappoint me with their blinders

[@milart12]

@@moxenrider I don't need your explanation.

[@enterthevoidIi]

@@moxenrider please explain JP to me lol I am dying to understand his gish gallop

[@gmy33]

Sam haris is using alphaman power .. i never trust this .. if you do this you probably have insecurities in your believes .. thats not a discussion

[@OhGrowUpPodcast]

“He couldn’t have written Cain and Able…” To quote the great philosopher Bill Burr “have you seen Star Wars, humans made that up”

[@matthewchilds1862]

No , Lucas spoke at length to Joseph cambell to steal ideas from mythology and mash them all together to make Star Wars . Primitive mythology made Star Wars

[@tezzo55]

EXACTLY! Whoever wrote "Star Wars" is UTTERLY incapable of writing something like Cain 'n' Able, or they would have done so, right?

[@reredrumuoy]

Star Wars was actually written by a ton of different people. From mythological writing, the hero's journey (Campbell), samurai and western stories. Lucas had the entire catalogue of human literature at his disposal, the author of Cain and Abel did not have that access to the massive catalogue of literature that Lucas had. If you actually thought about it, with an interest in understanding, you would agree with him.

[@jursamaj]

@@matthewchilds1862 So, you've got Lucas + Campbell + mythology. What part of that contradicts "humans made that up"?

[@ROVA00]

@@reredrumuoyhow do you know what the author of cane and able had for inspiration? Do you seriously think nobody had thought up any stories or philosophy before Moses? We have extraordinary writers and story tellers come up every few hundred years, and it doesn’t mean they were “divinely inspired”. It’s like saying Johann Sebastian Bach was somehow divinely “inspired” just because he was so extraordinary as a musician.

[@johannesd.492]

Whenever pressed with specific questions, Peterson is just unable to give a straight answer it seems. After watching many hours of him speaking, I think he is certainly smart and educated, but fundamentally as confused as his answeres are vague and evasive. The doscussion between Dillahunty and him was even worse for him IMO. Would've loved to see Hitchens talk with him.

[@MasterChakra7]

As much as I would want to see that happen, their approach are so different that most, if not every point made by Hitchens would've flown right above Peterson's head. Hitchens' discourse was based on real life events, politics and moral disgust for the physical and mental torture of innocents. Nothing can ever be more concrete than this, whereas Peterson's ideas live within his safety bubble, free to reinterpret delusions to sell to unreconciliable theists what they want to hear. He'd just say "ok, it's a work of fiction, and ok some people have done bad things, but what about my metaphorical substrate" and Hitchens would probably keep pointing at what actually happens in real life. They'd go back and forth without ever finding a single thread to pull on together.

[@johnflesner8086]

Have ever seen a B-52 drop chaff to confuse in coming surface to air missles? Peterson answering a question.

[@georgegrader9038]

I need to watch the Dillahunty discussion in its totality [like wise this one]

[@felsenmeer3004]

i can see it in front my eyes@@MasterChakra7

[@zoomingby]

It's worse than that, I'm afraid. Peterson is clearly a right wing figure, and so obviously much of his audience is religious. Stating that god is a fabrication, an invention would be incredibly problematic for his brand. This is the nature of audience capture and what happens when your paycheck is reliant on keeping your audience hearing precisely what they want to hear. Peterson has no morals or integrity.

[@markgodfrey1847]

Jordan is a charlatin

[@YurieskisArcayaBorrego]

are you upset more people listen to his BS than yours?🤣

[@adamedison6831]

Sam Harris: "I'm not sure what you really believe" Jordan Peterson: "Can anyone ever know what they really believe?" Classic dodge

[@JohnSmith-fz1ih]

Yeah, it’s very annoying. When I ask someone if they think the bible was inspired by god I usually get a yes or no answer (perhaps followed by more info, but a clear answer is usually there). If I ask how old they think the world is there is usually a clear answer. Peterson is incapable of giving such an answer, yet he responds to Harris making this point as if its not incredibly obvious what Harris is saying. Peterson is intelligent. And he’d have to be a complete idiot to not understand the point being made. So the only thing I can conclude is that he is dishonest.

[@7hello]

Truth. You have no clue.

[@Ferigore]

@@7hello what does commenting even give you when you cant even bring any argument or continuation of debate to the table? lol

[@7hello]

@@Ferigore what do you believe in?

[@sinasamarghandi6864]

It's an obvious fallacy! I really wondered how a world class person like Jordan Peterson could make such a terrible fallacy!

[@ConnorLouJones]

Why is Peterson saying it took some supernatural genius to tell the story of Cain and Abel? Sibling rivalry is common.

[@smaug660]

Thought exactly the same! What wisdom is he talking about?

[@Kyle-g5u]

Ten sentences!!! I guess when it takes someone like his self two pages to make one point, it does seem magical to him

[@TrollAxeThrower]

Uhm look at the Muslim world. They are like Cain. They sacrifice a lot, and gain nothing. And the western world makes the right sacrifices and wins. And who is aggressive towards who?

[@KlusiPL]

That story shows many things about humanity including two fundamental ways throught life - you either sacrifice and become a better person or you become bitter and resentful. That much wisdom contained in so little words is likely the effect of story beeing repeated throughout centuries slowly loosing anything that wasn't important and finally written down and so its not a work of one supergenius but more like the oldest testament to what our ancestors thousands of years ago found to be truly important and worth passing down and it still hold true to this day. The super genius were the people keeping the story going all that time and its highly unlikely that one person could just came up with that story in the form it endured.

[@Kyle-g5u]

@@KlusiPLhave you ever heard of Aesop's fables?

[@SanePerson1]

About halfway through this, it became clear to me that Peterson's obfuscation-packed filibuster wasn't going to end. And lo, it didn't.

[@BeefT-Sq]

" Faith in the supernatural begins as faith in the superiority of others." -Ayn Rand-

[@Jehoi]

Sam: Is there a God? Peterson: Look… I’m hungry

[@joelodjick230]

@@Jehoi "What do you mean by "is"? And what do you mean by "there"? And..."

[@donniedonnie639]

Why would Harris ask and keep hammering away when he doesn't get the response he wants??? because it's 1. An attack on God. 2. An attack on Peterson. 3. A show of Harris' personal beliefs. 4. Peterson knows there is no answer he can give that will satisfy Harris, so he acts in self-defense and self-preservation. Just as anyone of us would when attacked over and over. The powers that be profit as they promote traditional wisdom, knowledge and proven history are false while giving you freedom with radical ideas. In reality they are taking your freedom and power, and if not stopped nothing will be able to reverse what has been done. Do you think politicians are promoting these radical messages because they "care" about you? They "care" about controlling you and living like gods while they do it.

[@donnagodfrey1924]

Jordan Peterson is not mentally stable. He almost threw an angry tantrum here and has often cried in interviews. He is the one who is not clear about his own beliefs, not everyone else, as he accuses the audience of being.

[@ArThur_hara]

He did have depression few years ago... Now... I don't know if it could justify your statement :]

[@Griemz]

I am apperantly living in a world where showing human emotion is considered mentally unstable LOL.

[@markjenkins7044]

Peterson is unhinged...He lost these debates...kept losing his cool.... Way too Emotional

[@GEOHHADDAD]

It’s lack of emotional control. It’s associated with any number of disorders. Here I would wager it’s more likely a tactic. @@Griemz

[@Griemz]

@@GEOHHADDAD crying =/= lack of emotional control. Neither is showing frustration a sign of lack of emotional control per se. Nothing he did here is remotely anything close to any mental unstability... Speaking as a psychologist.

[@albinreny]

Peterson is nothing but a Verbal Gymnast.

[@prince_of_summer]

But bad one

[@niquil7800]

Why are you all selling him short? Nothing but a verbal gymnast? Why can't you see that there are two great thinkers on the stage? I happen to agree with Harris on the subject of religion but in many ways JP has given the world master pieces. It's sad to see that people polarize everything they see anywhere at this day and age.

[@BooksForever]

Gymnasts have skill and can stick the landing. He’s no gymnast.

[@GMC-qo9xi]

@@niquil7800it seems you have the ability to see how self serving this all is… sound bites… that are started at a self serving moment and stopped at a self serving moment. No interest in whether there is a better argument to be made by an opponent, which of course there always is.

[@jimjamespaultyrone]

No, you just aren’t ..as intelligent.

[@randykrus9562]

Peterson is outclassed. And his brand of nonsense is exposed for what it is.

[@georgegrader9038]

Perhaps. Likely just your preference or bias.

[@Sensorama2000]

Or maybe you just don't understand him well enough?

[@johnwheeler3071]

Peterson is a strawman as he has never admitted he believes in the physical resurrection of Jesus. An atheist would have to be extremely dumb to attack christianity based on him.

[@rianmacdonald9454]

JP is very good at what he does, with regards to psychology and helping people in that manner - however he falls down hard the minute he tries to bring religion in to it, or even try to defend religion - he undermines everything he has done previously when he tries to to use ''the lack of god'' in peoples life's for the reason behind any form of mental illness or psychological problems at all. As said, it seriously undermines all of his good work and speeches when he first started out in the ''online'' forum sort of thing. Shame really. The man has serious knowledge and wisdom - just screwed now he has joined the god delusion.

[@rhet1016]

@@georgegrader9038 Strip away the names and voices, put it on a transcript, and all one party did was dodge over and over and over while, with a nod to cognitive neuroscience, provided a sensible biological explanation for the supernatural inspiration he claims to be arguing in favor of (i.e., 99% of processing is subconscious). Slap the names back on ... and it was Peterson.

[@SiRushBass]

Jordan: "You're not capable of articulating yourselves". Me: "hold up a mirror Jordan, you're projecting".

[@juergenernst1320]

He referred to the human mind and Sam conceded the point. Did you genuinely misunderstand or are you strawmaning like almost every other commenter?

[@SiRushBass]

@@juergenernst1320 that's not what the strew man fallacy means. This is such a deeply ironic statement from Jordan who simply cannot clearly explain what he says about religion because his standpoint is so ambiguous, so he resorts to obfuscatory waffle.

[@juergenernst1320]

@SiRushBass he stated many times when asked directly, that he doesn't know if God exists; therefore he can't state that he "believes" in God or any deirdy for that matter. He went on to say that he tries to act as if God existed. I can think of a worse moral compass, but what you see as waffling, I see as a conflict deeply rooted in ethical responsibility. I can appreciate both, Sam and Jordan and I find it sad that we are losing ourselves in tribalism over what could be a healthy discourse. If you're old enough, you know that believes can and do change over decades, and sometimes quite dramatically. To say that you know exactly what you believe is rather arrogant and that you find it easy to express and articulate your beliefs accurately, is wrong, the majority of time. And in that, Sam agreed, he just didn't lash out at the audience because he lacks passion for most of his beliefs, many of which he has at least partially abandoned over time. He just can't ever say that he was wrong on anything. Can we say "jab"?

[@SiRushBass]

Christianity is the very antithesis of ethical responsibility. It's arrogant of you to tell me how certain I am in my beliefs. Tribalism is your projection onto me, however, I'm speaking of this specific issue, not others where I agree with Peterson. The fact that beliefs change over time for more mature people, and that (gasp) we don't know everything, should lead to clearer and more honest answers than Jordan gives, when he explicitly avoids answering the questions he's posed.

[@juergenernst1320]

@@SiRushBass it's actually not me telling you that you can't be certain of your beliefs, let alone expressing them adequately. It's agreed upon science...

[@DanLetts97]

I’ve never been a fan of JP. I don’t understand why he’s a hero to so many.

[@capitalb5889]

Because he gives an intellectual veneer to bigotry.

[@countchoculitis1528]

He's like most of the grifters on the right. He sprinkles in "truths" in between his BS, which is all it takes to convince the mediocre intellects, which is ,unfortunately, a majority of the population. JP's "truths" are typically of the self-help nature, and usually involve increasing one's self esteem through physical exercise and daily habits. Not exactly a revelation, given how science of health and fitness has grown immensely in the last 40 years. Gone are the days of NHL superstars like Mario Lemieux having a smoke between periods 😂 For Alex Jones, his "truths" are "Epstein is a giant pedo". Again, not exactly revelations. They all use that same technique, and add their own personal touch like Shapiro with his Gish Gallop. Be weary of people like this. They're trying to trick you for personal gain.

[@nuorigin]

He makes sense to wannabees and idiots and to someone paying no attention to his nonsense. All semantical arguments with no meat

[@CatDaddyGuitar]

@@countchoculitis1528 word (And not salad) 😂👊🏼

[@GodlessReason]

Simple: He's a vocal christian who tends to favor conservative positions. For conservative christians this basically means, that whatever he says and does must be good (brains off) - it's the times we live in I'm afraid, not only when it comes to JP.

[@johns1625]

JP is concerned that departing from religion is "throwing out the baby with the bathwater", yet in however many thousands of years nobody has provided any evidence there is or has been a baby anywhere near the bath water. 😂

[@georgegrader9038]

Certainly there is a lot of bathwater. Always a nagging suspicion about that baby.....

[@uachtair]

I question the existence of the bath! 👍😁

[@Mr.Goodkat]

With how misopaedic/bigoted Jordan is when it comes to kids, I think he'd be more concerned he was throwing bathwater out with the baby.

[@kotchstevens2321]

Depending on your interpretation of evidence? How about 500 witnesses? How about 1 or 2 witnesses? Is usually all U need to get U reasonable doubt? How about millions of testimonials? How about your a horse & I lead U to water, can I make U drink it?

[@kotchstevens2321]

@@AbhijeetMishra yep, but it's not something U can prove in a lab. & It's impossible to believe unless 1 important detail?

[@wesgleeson]

He mocks postmodernist types for saying nothing is true or real, and then tries to say he can't possibly know what he believes. Grounded when it suits him.

[@truthstarved]

By denying the statement "I AM" is true, postmodernists have engaged in irreparable self negation. By claiming that "one plus one equals two" is false, postmodernists have undermined the logical foundation upon which persuasive argument relies; and again have engaged in self defeat. Nihilism was/is the intended result of Derridean critiques of logocentrism in spite of denials by his apologists.

[@AlexGlassey]

Jordan: an absolutely arrogant obfuscator. Completely blind to his own internal confusion.

[@maxcat06]

Peterson's voice keeps going up octaves.

[@evanroberts2771]

When he's caught out, yes.

[@bewing77]

JP’s brain is like a random word generator. Input something and it will generate something that sounds superficially profound, but really means nothing once you think about it for two seconds.

[@jimjamespaultyrone]

Your brain must be an educational deterrent. I’m sorry.

[@daemonthorn5888]

You're incorrect. I disagree with his views and opinions regarding religion and Christianity. But outside of this topic he is very intelligent and has some very profound and valuable things to say. No offense, but just because you don't understand someone, that does not mean that they are "trying to sound superficially profound". Have you ever stopped to consider that just maybe he is more intelligent than you are. And he has a much greater vocabulary than you do? And that, just maybe, you simply don't understand what he's saying at all, even though you think you do? To be honest, I think this is the case here. Because Sam Harris talks much the same way. But you agree with his take on the topic at hand. So you don't notice the use of "big words". I'm a fan of both of these men. All three of them, actually. But there are things that I disagree with every single on of them on from time to time. That's simply how it goes. This mentality that you exhibit, where just because you disagree with them on a particular topic, you go so far as to dislike them as a person and you see them as an enemy of sorts. Do you approach everyone that way? Or would you agree that you can disagree with someone on a certain topic, but be completely in agreement with them on many other things? Completely discounting someone because of a disagreement on a single topic is not very intelligent. It's a bit "trollish", actually.

[@Ettyofacts]

Not entirely But he does swing the bs arrow a Little bit

[@steveholliday1599]

​@@daemonthorn5888I have listened to both on a number of topics. My experience is Sam always attempts to create a logical and structured argument for his positions, so you can agree with the premise(s) and conclusions (or not), whilst JP just spews words that sound like an argument, but never make any sense to me. You can tell me (or others) that we are not clever enough to understand him, but I would say if I can follow Sam's position easily, and I can't follow JP, then (at best) that makes JP a crap communicator. Your argument is that maybe he's not articulate on this topic, but on others he has great insight, may be correct.But, when he spouts such BS in one area, any uses language in a way that is (at best) difficult to follow all the time, then it's simple to assume that everything else he is explaining poorly is also BS.

[@rjlchristie]

He's not quite at Chopra level babble-speak, but he gets close.

[@billobrien4680]

The first time I listened to Peterson, he was lecturing about Hitler and the Nazis. When he finishred, I (as a student of history) said WTF is this guy saying. I have had the same response to his other lectures/debates.

[@Someguy12333]

Are you too dumb?

[@KarlFullerNZ]

Yup, first time I heard him on a topic he came across as an intellectual masturbator trying to baffle people with a word salad gun.

[@Jcs57]

That depends on how you define “saying”.

[@stewartmoore5158]

I know Douglas Murray was supposed to be a mediator, but at some point neutrality has to give to the absurd things Jordan Peterson says. It's starkly obvious he's out of his depth, especially when you put him next to Sam Harris. I'm not a Sam Harris fanboy, I just think he makes far more sense in far fewer words than JP.

[@marKism69]

Jordan is such a pseudo-intellectual fraud. It amazes me that he gets invited to speak in any intellectual format.

[@MattnUska]

For entertainment value? Or possibly the challenge of speaking with someone that is impossible to have a conversation with.

[@James_36]

he clearly isn't - he is literally a professor who has read more books than most people on earth... you sound like an idiot

[@brianray2614]

Fraud, good description.

[@mistymac9345]

I always had an inkling although I had great respect for him. He vacillates more and more when challenged.

[@DillaryHuff]

He gets invited to these events because he's still a popular, public figure. I don't appreciate his dishonesty either, but I do get the impression that a lot of people do, based on all of these comments I see that praise even his nonsensical, word salads and irrelevant references that only distract from the topic of discussions that he clearly knows little to nothing about.

[@ShazWag]

Interpretation of Jordan Peterson's answer (short version): "I honestly don't know what I believe or why."

[@Resinpro]

+ "Because science say brain go brrrrrrrrrr" He is the most insufferable 'dumb persons smart man' I have ever seen.

[@edwardkuenzi5751]

On an intellectual level I think Peterson does not believe in God, but he hates atheists and everything they are associated with so viscerally that he is genuinely deeply conflicted about the question.

[@rjlchristie]

Because deeper reality, dummy.

[@scoontaquex3388]

I'm baffled at the comments on this video. His point is coherent and clear to me. Belief is complex and a dynamic process that evolves over time. Many people choose discrete perspectives on complex issues, as if conclusions can be drawn - perhaps they can be, in some circumstances. Jordan is comfortable sitting in the 'in-between' of wrestling with an evolving perspective that is hard to quantify in traditional and discrete language. You don't have to agree - I don't, personally - but to write it off as dumb or merely confusion really just reveals your own.

[@VinylCP]

​@@scoontaquex3388 NONONO, Sam Harris couldn't understand what Jordan was saying about belief. So no-one, you included, could possibly do so either 😂

[@createallow3126]

This conversation needs Joseph Campbell. The concretization of revelation is fundamentalism. The atheist sees the myth as a lie, the theist sees it as a fact, the mystic sees it as a metaphor. Peterson made the same argument that people who believe aliens made the Pyramids make; It's too amazing for humans to have created it.

[@tezzo55]

Atheism is the modern-day faith, because atheists are invested in there being no god. They truly BELIEVE there is no god. So atheism is just another belief, and remember, if you've got to believe it then it's probably not true!

[@ErgoCogita]

“It’s virtually impossible to write something like Cain and Able” -Jordan Peterson 🙄

[@purplpen]

What rot! Cain and Abel is a terrible story, an immoral story. It does not contain wisdom; it contains folly.

[@ErgoCogita]

@@purplpen To be fair, many/most stories about morality contain folly or immorality to exemplify the road not to take.

[@Sol-mr1lv]

"The story of Cain and Abel is uniquely one of wisdom and cannot be written by a normal man" Dude, it's a story about two brothers fighting because one is jealous of the other, how fucking hard is that to write?!

[@simon.foley1]

Exactly, JP is tedious.

[@GEOHHADDAD]

Agreed if it were so brilliant it would have explained how these chaps perpetuated the entire human race without exclusively having sex with their sisters and perhaps their offspring thereafter. @@musekic4654

[@AnthroSpirito]

Easy as that

[@4dy4dy]

No, it is not. read the bible

[@MovieMakingMan]

I could’ve written that Cain & Able story infinitely better than the childish, incomplete story in the Bible. I have an extensive writing career. The writers of the Bible were ignorant Bronze Age goat herders.

[@BuckScrotumn]

It’s like watching the high school bully finally run into someone bigger than him and get absolutely demolished. Jordan can confuse his dull audience with fancy words but not Sam. He starts lashing out at the audience like a cornered dog. 😂😂😂

[@gamejedi]

You do understand that a fair portion of Sam and Jordan's audience overlap? You understand why Sam has initiated or agreed to more than one conversation with Jordan? Maybe put your unfounded ego aside?

[@henrikaugustsson4041]

I completely disagree. What I see is Jordan trying to convey something that Sam just isn’t able to understand because he’s quite autistic in some way.

[@WDRhine]

@@henrikaugustsson4041 Putting aside your amazing ability to diagnose neurological conditions via KZbin videos, what is the "something" that JP is trying to convey?

[@jacklondon999]

Oh, he didn't like when audience was clapping when Sam called out his BS. He accused the audience of a crime-thought of believing that they are transparent to themselves although nobody claimed that at all. Nevertheless, he read minds of those who were clapping and lashed out at them. He hates when people don't buy his BS.

[@jambononi]

​​@@henrikaugustsson4041 Sam Harris very quickly clarified that we could all be in a simulation or it could be another god or no god at all. The point being: if we don't know 99% of our own consciousness, then why are you jumping to the conclusion that it's god filling in the gaps? That's not Sam being autistic, that's Jordan being the intellectual equivalent of a child believing in Santa Claus. "But if the presents appear and there's a bite in the cookie, it HAS to be Santa Claus." If you can't explain it, it HAS to be god. Sam Harris is just explaining logic. It doesn't mean there isn't "something" it just means the conclusion Peterson draws is intellectually dishonest. Especially as he's clearly so intelligent.

[@Callitout-kl1uq]

The title should be “Kermit throws a tantrum when he’s wrong.”

[@fromchomleystreet]

He’s so shamelessly evasive. The problem is they are talking past each other: For Harris, being a Christian is a question of what you believe. For Peterson, it’s a side you align yourself with in a culture war. Framed in that way, what one actually believes to be true isn’t relevant.

[@alexander1650x]

For me thats a VERY good commentary. Im glad Im not the only one thinking that. I was shocked when peterson announced he found to christianity. How could that so far logical driven man come to believe in that obvious fantasy. He wants to pick a side in the culture wars because he thinks a religion to bound people together and makes them somehow strong is needed against the wokeists who are bound and beein strong by their religion. And maby he needed it for his soul to survive with all that anger he had to face after all the things his enemys done to him latlely and with the route our societys are going. To believe in something greater could help. Maybe both. But the priece for that is that he has to give up logic. And with that he will lose some people who admired his past self. Maybe he will lose to much people. (sry. not good in english)

[@miltiadisgeorgiadis2179]

@@alexander1650x Let me give you another perspective. What if the side he is choosing in the so called culture war, is just choosing that of his main audience. Because let’s admit it , this culture war is no meaningful academic endeavour and it will go away sooner or later. This culture war is the thing that made him popular , not his analysis of jung or whatever. His best interest is for this to last for as long as possible so that he remains relevant and makes $$ . So what if his advertising/advisor/consultant company ( and please be sure that he has more than one ) tells him : Look jordan , we analysed the audience, who comes to the shows, who watches the videos, who hears the podcasts and buys the advertised products , who buys your books etc and in order to remain relevant you have to choose this side, don’t say you are an atheist , don’t support this or the other view because you have this percentage of viewers that have this view and you don’t want to loose them. Just find an elaborate way to evade the questions , hind a little bit that you are maybe believe in god , but not to much so to alienate the agnostics . Cry from time to time or pretend that you are about to cry and you are good.. Don’t be surprised if his tactics change along the way..

[@thecat3507]

Good point

[@plefevre]

That's well put.

[@ramonalejandrosuare]

Yes, and this is a very problematic position historically. He's a lot more similar to the "postmodernists" he decries in this respect.

[@swisskiwi1478]

And see him appealing in that snarky manner directly to the audience when he can’t answer. What was transparent in that moment was that JP realized hé couldn’t spin a crap reply.

[@HughJitsu]

That moment was cringe for me as it was far too obvious JP didn't have an actual answer so he lashed out at the audience like a 14 year old who just learned how to manipulate people with misdirection.

[@jnagarya519]

So Jordan Peterson is not transparent to HIMSELF.

[@lilstevechan8427]

Exactly! Peterson obfuscates what he actually believes in order to hold contradictory and ridiculous positions. He's posturing as a Christian to his religious fans by defining God so loosely that anything can qualify.

[@jnagarya519]

@@lilstevechan8427 Does he obfuscate? Or is he not transparent to himself?

[@Resinpro]

Maybe if he would just clean his room a bit more, he will get there

[@rjlchristie]

It's all magic. Lots of magic, you are just close minded not to understand that.

[@jnagarya519]

@@rjlchristie Magic is a scam.

[@ragnar010162]

1:23 "If I'm not sure, nobody else is." If Sam Harris doesn't know then we're all done for.

[@satisdee]

Cain and Abel were brothers from the Bible. Cain was a farmer, and Abel was a shepherd. They both made offerings to God, but God favored Abel's offering over Cain's. This made Cain jealous, so he killed Abel. God punished Cain for his crime by banishing him. The End.

[@noyfb4769]

Praise the lawd! Jesus Christ has returned! I pledge to clean my room in your honor immediately!

[@mrsatire9475]

Wow, what an amazing original story. No one ever thought of sibling rivalry before, smh

[@charlotterolph5373]

OMG! God is in the comments section! I am no longer an atheist! 😂🤣😂🤣

[@Jcs57]

What about the crime of knowing the crime will take place but choose to sit back and watch.

[@neilmchardy9061]

What worries me most is that Kane and adam populated the world with his mam. Eeeuuukkk

[@Jacob-py9mx]

Jordan Petersons refusal to give a straight answer when he has shown the ability to accurately describe other things with pinpoint accuracy kind of just reveals his actual beliefs on concepts like God and religion: he knows it’s fictitious but doesn’t want the audience to lose the “wonder” and “awe” of believing in the unknown.

[@Tad-For-Global-Peace]

Jordan turned hard right. All hard right ppl are disingenuous religious zealots

[@georgegrader9038]

So Sam is the wonder of rational discourse & the final scienctic word, and JP is the wonder of the endless literature analysis, the still quiet voice, unknown....

[@henrikaugustsson4041]

I think you misunderstand his general point because all you do is look at short clips. I don’t see evasion at all.

[@johnwheeler3071]

Peterson is not trying to defend orthodox Christianity as you seem to believe. He obfuscates because his beliefs are closer to some sought of gnosticism which he is not openly admitting. Think about it, when he has he ever admitted he believes in the historical and physical resurrection of Jesus.

[@johnwheeler3071]

Peterson is not trying to defend orthodox Christianity as you seem to believe. When has he ever admitted in the hostorical and physical resurrection of Jesus? He obfuscates because his beliefs are closer to some sort of gnosticism.

[@ImTheDudeMan471]

Toronto restaurants should name a menu item, "Peterson Salad". We can't describe it & you will be confused after eating it.

[@johnloving9401]

If Jordan Peterson is hard for you to understand, it seems like there must be a short list....

[@BuckScrotumn]

They just have a line of employees bombarding you with random ingredients until you finally give up and leave. 😂😂😂😂😂

[@toAdmiller]

JP got an advanced degree from Deepak Chopra University...

[@plondernk712]

ike you understand what he is saying...let me to tell you nobody does, ppl just listen to his crap and then think how smart they are he just says some basic stuff (like clean your room) and then overanalizes it and throws couple fancy words here and there thats the TRICK@@johnloving9401

[@23498cna]

😂😂😂 love it!

[@jacobwheeler6136]

Peterson refuses to have an honest conversation

[@savic1984]

Always on every subject.

[@jacobwheeler6136]

@@savic1984 exactly... it's why I gave up listening to anything he has to say

[@evanroberts2771]

If he's not winning, he keeps shifting the goalposts until he gets a win, and the initial argument is not answered, but he claims the win as being on the initial argument.

[@jimjamespaultyrone]

How many seconds have listened to him? 12, 13?

[@jacobwheeler6136]

@@jimjamespaultyrone who are you to me?

[@GabrielMorenoE]

"I never saw so many people applaud (2'20'') an evasion of a simple question" - and therein lies the challenge of our public communication today, where the likes of Jordan simply play the strings that will to resonate with his own followers

[@SRKanai1]

It's so funny to watch Peterson get furious the instant his semantically spiced word salad fails to impress someone who realizes it for what it is and calls it such. He had a similar moment against Dawkins that was simply magic to watch. Dawkins called him out on it and flat out told him that his word salad and semantic arguments are absolute and utter bullshit and Peterson all but threw a clot. Don't get me wrong as a psychologist Peterson has many great things to say and his defense against the dark arts of the dangerously woke is admirable but that's where he needs to stay. When he starts trying to defend mythology he desperately wishes was true he just falls apart. It impresses those who just assume that because they can't understand it it must be incredibly profound but for anyone of any intellectual rigor, it's just dismal logic thrown in a blender.

[@dannyallen4992]

Totally agree, he tried the same Shiit with Matt Dillahunty and failed miserably. Jp is obviously a very smart man whom has a really good insight in to human behaviour and our thought processes but whenever he speaks in any of these theistic debates I kinda get the feeling he's trying to justify he's religious leanings/beliefs to himself and can't quite do it. Would of been funny as fuck if he tried he's convoluted digressions on Hitchens😂

[@johnflesner8086]

The only insight Peterson has is illusion, sophistry, and arrogance when dealing with those he feels are inferior. Which for him is everyone else.

[@MrRizzyWizzy]

And this in my opinion is how Donald Trump got elected. The presidents that speak at a higher intelligence level make the commoner go into a "nod and agree" mode and clap because everybody else does, but they don't semantically understand what the president or candidate is actually saying. Along comes Trump, and now the people listening can understand him because they are using equal level vocabulary, and they can feel like they are part of the big idea, and that Trump was sent there to talk directly to them. If Trump talked on a level of eloquence as Obama or Clinton or Dawkins or Harris, he wouldn't have as many followers. And on the other hand, the smarter ones in the crowd can see through it, and see that Trump isn't smart, he just knows how to clue in on what gets applause and what doesn't, and keep saying the stuff that does. If you notice, Trump will say a lot of bizarre stuff just to see if it sticks, and then his next rally will focus on the good parts. But he doesn't have the intelligence to figure out what actually needs to be done, and that is reflected in all of his failed business ventures. When he said the "I love the poorly educated", he was being 100% honest.

[@SRKanai1]

@@dannyallen4992 Oh I had the same thought. I would give any amount of money to watch that. It's funny because he's so dismissive of Hitchens and really downright insulting, but I've come to notice, he only insults those he's terrified of. There would have been a mighty Hitchslap or twain in that debate, had it happened.

[@mickberry164]

He's a terrible psychologist.

[@trevorsole3933]

Ah yes, the "self-help guru" who's an emotional wreck.

[@tezzo55]

ALL gurus are emotional wrecks and conmen. Privilege destroys what is human in us - all privilege!

[@PatJenningsGloves]

Lets hope he still cleaned up his room lol

[@Somebody-Somewhere-]

He forgot his benzos😂

[@OleensEmbroidery]

Look how JP looks at and addresses the audience rather than the person he is debating with.

[@noyfb4769]

Look at his hands quivering; benzo boy got the shakes.

[@rjlchristie]

And berates them if they scoff at him or when they applaud Harris.

[@Someguy12333]

​@@noyfb4769Was benzoboy supposed to be an insult?

[@scoontaquex3388]

Look how JP also looks at the person he is debating with other times. Weird nitpicking

[@carlmurphy2416]

And the way his tone becomes very indignant.

[@fuzzykyrra]

Wow Nene Wow! JP having a hissy fit over people disagreeing him

[@CaneFu]

I have yet to see any religious person try to prove their god by any other means than playing mere word games. Certainly there must be a lot of physical evidence for the creator of the universe so JUST SHOW IT.... but they never can.

[@Jcs57]

Have you tried looking at trees I hear it’s very compelling. 😂

[@smaug660]

Unbearable. I never understood how JP was ever considered an intelectual....

[@foujj]

Sam is being too kind. The bible doesn't stand up to great literature like Shakespeare. First of all, Cain and Abel is not a wise story. At least god doesn't come off as wise. God is supposed to be omniscient and loving and yet he ignores Cain's feelings and lavishes praise on Abel.. What kind of loving father plays favorites with his children and then acts surprised when the neglected child acts out? And then he pretends not to know Cain is going to kill Abel and does nothing to stop it. God in Genesis sounds like a dick. And then a few pages later he drowns the entire earth filled with innocent people and animals because despite his omnipotence, he can't just ferret out the sinners. What Sam couldn't get JP to answer to is what in the bible proves it has divine inspiration and not just some bronze age superstitions?

[@mrsatire9475]

Who is smart enough to determine if God is really omniscient?

[@Jcs57]

@@mrsatire9475Good question, take it up with his apologists

[@ss4e982]

What are you talking about? Read Cain and Abel again. His gift was refused cause he gave his best but not out of faith but out of some idiotic idea to "bribe" the God. Anyway, correct action in this situation is to learn from your misstaken and not go and kill your brother. Look at the story of Job. I want to relate them in way that shows you that maybe sometimes shit just happens and you can't be resentfull for it and make it worse. God doesen't give a shit about some fruit and some fucking sheep. He has it all. Its actions that matter and faith in him. Cause in the end its all irrelevant. If God is there, always present, you just need to follow his rules and don't give a fuck abouth trivial stuff. For example why would you be jelaous if God favours someone? You are both going to Heaven if you follow his rules. So in the end a great test was given to Cain and he failed. He should have just ignored the actions of a God to make God pleased with him. Ok, you dont like my offering? Nvm, let me correct myself and offer something else or nothing at all. But no let me go all out and kill my brother just cause he offered some fruit. Dude actually offered only thing he had. He wasnt thinking about it. Cain made a rational chooice to offer his best of the best. If he just picked some random sheep and offered he would be fine. I dont really agree with JP but the story actually is really complex but simple at the same time. Shakespeare is full of crap. Make up some drama, go with the random murder and resolve it in bloodbath. His plays are action movies of his era ffs. Nothing more. Every story he tells can be dated to stories before. He didn't invent the human nature. Jesus fuck even some fables make more sense then his work.

[@mrsatire9475]

@@ss4e982 Can you explain Deuteronomy 13:15-17 to these heathens?

[@fromthepeanutgallery1084]

The story is simple enough, anger and jealousy is applicable to every human condition/relationship and to all lives at one time or another (male/female/other) This is why EVERYONE understands the subject of the story. However very very few get/understand the moral (the theme) of the story. The complexity (theme) lies in the question God asks Cain. "Why are you angry and downcast?" Gen. 4 : 7 (New Jerusalem Bible)

[@justinlewis8889]

This is the intellectual equivalent of a slippery fish wiggling in and out of your hands. JP just does not want to be pinned down on what he actually means. Bravo to Sam for his heroic attempt to extract actual meaning from JP’s blabbering.

[@missionpupa]

I find it funny how most of this comment section criticizes Jordan like you did with all sorts of pseudo intellectual metaphors, but none of you clowns actually have any counter arguments to him or present any point that you disagreed with.

[@justinlewis8889]

@ maybe you can help me understand. For starters, what did JP mean? It’s pretty hard to use a specific counter argument when when someone hasn’t put forward a coherent argument.

[@clarissakrohn3517]

because Cain and Able is such a profound story and so deep that no one could every come up with a story about murder over jealousy except an all powerful, wise creator😅😅😂😂😂

[@Iwillreply]

And imagine the idea that God communicated so poorly, one human killed another because of it. God didn't even call for that one. Embarrassing.

[@richardvucci271]

But 10 sentences!! Clearly Yahweh!

[@BenjWarrant]

Yeah, that was bizarre. One brother, less successful, is jealous of his brother's success and kills him, only to be taken apparently completely unaware when everyone says 'Where's your brother? We last saw him going off with you!' and the only answer he can come up with is 'Huh, it's not my responsibility to look after him...' WTF is profound about that? A teenager could come up with that story.

[@patmanpatmanson]

​@@BenjWarrant😂 Which proves that you comment is more profound than said story.

[@kamlikasura938]

JP was stunned like a little child right in the beginning of the video, he couldnt even see Sam in the eye xD

[@JD-hh9io]

I love it when people debate science fiction books.

[@snephtar]

“To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason (JP) is like administering medicine to the dead” Thomas Paine

[@davidgill6883]

I love how he lost his cool when called out.

[@rubybegonia7052]

As if he had a right to berate his audience. The audience is what got this man his fame and fortune.

[@ClayShentrup]

Sam Harris is like 10 orders of magnitude more intelligent than Jordan.

[@Richard_the_V]

And still can't seem to make his point.

[@wkrp01]

To be fair, if Sam were that intelligent, he wouldn't ask questions that don't matter.

[@ClayShentrup]

@@Richard_the_V I think he made his point. Devastatingly.

[@ClayShentrup]

@@wkrp01 it matters in so far as it refutes his opponent's argument which he did brilliantly.

[@wkrp01]

@@ClayShentrup If what matters to you is "debate skills", then OK. What matters to me is stuff that actually matters in real life.

[@RenghisKhan]

If the bible had been dictated by an omniscient being JP would not have had to resort to naming just the story of Kain and Abel. The whole thing would have been devoid of nonsense and intrinsically amazing. He could have named any random part of the bible. The mental gymnastics of religious people....

[@happyhappy85]

I like how instead of addressing the question, he just goes on a tangent on how its impossible to fully articulate your beliefs. True, but that doesn't mean you can't answer basic questions.

[@scoontaquex3388]

I think Jordan's point is, precisely, that the question isn't as simple as asked. Demanding a direct answer to every question is the times of gamesmanship politicians use to get a sound bite out of someone. Jordan could be more to the point, granted.

[@BrokeTheSeal]

Jordan Peterson, PhD in Word Saladry

[@purplpen]

No. He can't defend his dissertation.

[@RobertoLeo3]

We need Kamala Harris instead of Sam Harris. Her and JP debating would be great. We would really go to some far out places.

[@Fuddy23]

Peterson never fully recovered from his breakdown

[@gordonmcneil0011]

This clip is 6 years old.

[@Fuddy23]

@@gordonmcneil0011 and?

[@Fuddy23]

@@gordonmcneil0011 2019 he was in treatment for a prescribed drug ( no idea how long he was on it) He's never been the same.

[@carlosvasquez6054]

@@gordonmcneil0011and he still hasn’t recovered

[@victorc777]

Jordan’s ability to be perceived as knowing so much about a topic, yet being so ambiguous, that even he doesn’t know where he stands on any one topic. This is a skill many pseudo experts have and use.

[@jbern2185]

He just keeps it super vague, tries to dissect something small the person said, argue something small and petty the other person said that doesn't even address the point, or he zeros in on something so small but barely relevant to the subject to distract that he's not answering the question.

[@Russty1969]

JBP is a one trick pony; and it isn't a good trick.

[@jonahkaun891]

Good enough to have made him a millionaire . . .

[@Sairfecht]

@@jonahkaun891you reminded me of that bit in that book, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven."

[@jonahkaun891]

@Sairfecht hey, haven't seen that quote in a comment this week. Doesn't negate my point, either. Edit: I am curious how I remind you of the quote. You mean my previous comment reminded you?

[@LSmallCatL]

Peterson doesn’t believe that Shakespeare could have written parts or all of the bible but a vast collection of human minds over millennia did. There are nonsensical propositions and then there is him.

[@Metonymy1979]

He doesn't look at him. But the best thing is that he got mad at Sam for saying no one knows what he is talking about. But he also says no one can know what anyone is BUT tells atheists they are actually Christian, they just don't know it. The guy is ridiculous

[@tritone11]

Peterson doesn‘t try to increase knowledge. He tries to appear as knowing. That includes him speaking actual facts as well as sometimes just ridiculous evasions like this one.

[@AntPDC]

I started to get suspicious when he adopted a Messianic manner wherein his supporters became hive-minded and uncritical.

[@tezzo55]

Especially when he rewrote The Lord's Prayer. I've christened that "poem" of his - The Jord's Prayer!

[@EclipseStudio]

Interesting how Harris is talking to Peterson, but the latter tends to largely talk to the audience. Almost as if one is more performative than the other.

[@macrumpton]

JP is such a huckster. Everything about him says "I'm lying about everything I say, but you can't prove it". I am puzzled why he continues to have these public discussions with Sam Harris which expose his true nature.

[@johnreuter4916]

His moron followers would chalk dodging Sam up as a loss, you know, chickening out and all that, so by Bloviating his way through he looks like a tough guy, and since the idiots have no clue what the hell either of them is saying he gets to pick up a paycheck and get more exposure for his grift on YTube.

[@archiejohnston498]

JP says the Cain and Abel story is too profound to have been written by mere human agency. As The Dude would say: "That's just, like, your opinion, man".