When your virtuosity makes the audience clap in the wrong place...

🎹⭐️Acknowledgement and clip details⭐️🎹
Pianist: Alexei Volodin
Repertoire: Tchaikovsky/Pletnev - The Nutcracker Suite (Piece No. 4 Intermezzo)
Link to original video: • Tchaikovsky - Pletnev....

[@thingiezz]

Honestly, that's on him. My teacher once told me "if you're gonna throw your hands up like that, of course the audience is gonna think you're done. But if you keep your hands to the keyboard and don't relax, your audience will know that they keep their attention on you". As a performer, you must realize that your audience is unlikely to know the piece you're playing very well, so as strange as it may sound, you're the only one that ca show them if you want applause or not.

[@arthurhorowitz5345]

You're exactly right! Couldn't agree more. I reckon he was showing off with the exaggerated gestures and it back fired a little!

[@toscanseplante6053]

I agree and I don't agree. As you wrote, to put your hands in the air is a good way to relax, plus it happens when you're satisfy with the way you played the cadenza and you feel as a conductor. On top of that, you are not supposed to clap one second after hearing the last note, but one second after the sound totally disappeared, as silence is part of music. I'm not totally blaming the public though. Sure claping must be thought ahead before the performance. Maybe to play along this C major arpeggio waiting for the claping to fade away?

[@aivarasz]

Totally disagree. If the audience don't know the piece or how to behave in concert halls, they should first Google it or ask others, before showing what complete morons they are by clapping in the middle of piece they're not familiar with.the only way to show the performer is done, is when they stand up and begin to bow down. Everything before that is a part of ongoing music.

[@christophebenz]

Woaw... As a jazz/blues/boogie (or whatever) pianist I always find it awkward to stick so hardly to this convention of NOT clapping during the piece. As an ex-classical pianist I feel much so relieved to know my audience can feel at home when listening to music! Frankly it sounds to me like snobism and/or elitism (am I wrong?)... In jazz culture people can express their joy during the piece and kind-of interact with their favorite musicians by contratuling them when they achieve something fantastic, a solo, an astounding trait... Of course in snob jazz clubs people behave differently than in dancing clubs... In music bars they are even allowed to talk!! ... 😊

[@aivarasz]

@@christophebenz but we are not commenting club and restaurant performance here, are we? Let's not mix completely different situations.

[@Paroles_et_Musique]

Its not because of virtuosity, he wasn't even exceptional in, but because it sounded as a valid end, also he raised his hands as it was an end. Funny to notice, that often happens with Tchaikovsky, as there are endless ends before the final end, in his music.

[@user-xr1em8ux2c]

Exactement! I made effort to explain this about Yundi Li in his video kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWeUdGyIrNeKY7s but these ignoramus people blame the audience!

[@PianoJFAudioSheet]

@@user-xr1em8ux2c that moment in the Chopin ballade does not sound like a valid emd at all tho.

[@chester6343]

@@PianoJFAudioSheet exactly, it's a half cadence so by nature wants to be followed up with something

[@chester6343]

Hey every post I see of yours you're discrediting the pianist, you said the same thing about Marc Andre Hamelin not being exceptional and how the Godowsky etudes aren't that difficult (lollll) and here you are again struggling to speak about Alexei's performance without dropping a negative comment, please go and watch the full performance, it's a phenomenal display of pianism

[@Paroles_et_Musique]

@@chester6343 Saying it is not technically exceptional doesn't discredit the pianist. Give me an exceptional pianist (for example Pletnev plays this piece fantastic) then I agree.

[@UUpianoman]

anytime you can elicit spontaneous excitement with your playing, it is a success. Yes, it messed with the contrast, but the fact that you brought joy and excitement to some is a good thing.

[@douwemusic]

Exactly. In Italian concert houses I regularly had people clap and bravo mid-performance, after something that excited them

[@hippophile]

But was it excitement, or just started by someone thinking "here's my chance to clap" or (from someone perhaps dragged along unwillingly by a spouse) "thank God that is now over"??

[@jnmusic9969]

I’m pretty sure it was simply because he threw his hands up after playing what sounded like the end, so the audience thought it was the end.

[@samdaesoo]

I'm totally for clapping wherever the audience feels uncontrollable enthusiasm.

[@mckernan603]

Yeah! And like a comic, sometimes you have to wait for the applause to die down, I’m for it

[@axsup7g140]

Im totally against clapping in general no matter how the audience feels.

[@samdaesoo]

@@axsup7g140 Which was not always the case when the Classical music was contemporary. In fact, this tradition apparently started with certain 19th century composers being critical of "professionally hired applauders."

[@laurenth7187]

No, because that's not the tradition. You can slightly change things like clothes, and even play with partitions (Like S. Richter in his late years)

[@samdaesoo]

@@laurenth7187 Read the above comment please. Most people are aware of what the 'tradition' is.

[@MrRicksStudio]

Looked like an ending to me. I have heard a recording from a concert when the audience started clapping just before the coda of the Chopin 4th Ballade.

[@orlandocfi]

That happens for nearly every performance of that ballade. Some pianists now pedal through that pause before the coda to prevent people from clapping prematurely!

[@yanatiefbenkel2095]

When I listen to Alexei's playing, I'm ready to applause after each phrase, indeed. He is an outstanding artist and exceptional musician, no wonder that the audience got excited so much.

[@ronl7131]

Back in the late 70s, V Horowitz added a 2nd recital, in Chicago, one week after the originally scheduled recital quickly sold out. Same program. I attended both recitals because I loved the mercurial artistry of VH. On the program was Schumann Humoreske. In the first recital, folks unfamiliar with the work clapped prematurely during a slight pause near the end. A newspaper music critic blamed VH, stating his performance was “erratic, disjointed”. However, the next recital, an intense VH made sure there was no premature applause. I think some folks really either don’t know a work, or folks are just “too enthusiastic “. I’ll add, I once attended a Pollini recital in Chicago , in which he performed a Boulez sonata. His performance was so intensely riveting that the sonata made perfect sense in terms of ‘beginning, middle, and end”.

[@chester6343]

There's a vid on here of people doing the exact same thing at a Yundi Li concert clapping early when he plays Chopin's ballade no4, weirdly that's a very popular piece and I find it hard to believe that that many people in the crowd didn't know the ending, I think that in the moment people are so ready to applaud that they aren't thinking straight

[@ronl7131]

@@chester6343 I would love to have been at the soirée the B4 masterpiece was performed the first time. Imagine the fine ladies and gents, thinking the B4 finished at the false coda, then the real fury of the true coda kicks in. The listeners must have fallen out of their seats.

[@barney6888]

and here i thought this only happened in toronto

[@Vic9994546]

It’s difficult when that happens because as a pianist we use our ears constantly to adjust and temper the sound etc, so when people just start clapping in the middle it disrupts and it’s harder to hear and get back in the zone and moment we have built to in the piece

[@therealtruetwelfth798]

It wasn’t virtuosity that caused the audience to applaud - they thought the piece was over. Also: (regarding your screen line about “a new low’) today’s “classical” performers do not play or perform 18th- or 19th-century music in the manner it was performed by its creators. A modern professional football or soccer match has more in common with one of Liszt’s concerts that anything you’ll see today at Carnegie Hall or the Moscow Conservatory.

[@Medtszkowski]

He isn’t playing Liszt bruh

[@therealtruetwelfth798]

@@Medtszkowski Yes. I know that. I was using Liszt as an iconic example of 19th century piano performance.

[@hdrevolution123]

Why a soccer match?

[@Sam-gx2ti]

Absolutely true, in Mozart's time, it was common to applaud in the middle of a piece for a particularly impressive passage or impovised cadenza. People also clapped in between movements all the way until the mid-Romantic era! There is a fascinating story about a student visiting Liszt and playing for him, and Liszt made him a bit uncomfortable by saying "Bravo!" and "Well done!" in the middle of the piece. One of Liszt's other students took him aside and apologized, saying: "He comes from an older generation that expressed appreciation for playing that way. At that time it was not considered an interruption."

[@tcl6454]

just like in any jazz, pop, gospel, world music etc concert! i'm a musician myself and i love when the audience express their love for the music in a genuine way. to be honest, i think this modern rules about how you should behave in a concert are a big turn off for many music lovers and just keeps the general public away from classical music. i would love to have watched Liszt playing as a rock star

[@jakehouston4487]

At least the audience appreciated it, lol

[@System.Error.]

This happened in a concert of Yundi Li at Carnegie Hall. The piece was Chopin's 4th Ballade, Op. 52. It's on KZbin, so go check that out.

[@aerohydra3849]

In opera, it's actually pretty commonplace to clap in the middle of an aria, especially after a particularly challenging section. It's actually even a thing to repeat a section again as an encore in the middle of the piece.

[@maui3947]

I never knew that , thank you !

[@douwemusic]

In Italian concert houses, I've had more moments like this - at the time I thought Italians just like to applaud after something they found very good. They'd literally 'bravo' during the performance

[@arthurhorowitz5345]

In some ways, I do prefer this... I guess the audience feel less restricted and more able to express themselves which is a good thing :)

[@douwemusic]

@@arthurhorowitz5345 I agree. It might have something to do with the tension the pianist wants to build over the concert, but if your piano playing evokes tension, it's gonna be there anyway

[@CaradhrasAiguo49]

I attended a live performance of the Dvorak A major Quintet where the audience clapped at the end of the Trio's A section, when they hadn't even played the da capo!

[@ElnathanGuzman-Topic]

At least they appreciate it, and in addition, they do not know the piece, they tought the piece was over. You cannot blame them.

[@dwacheopus]

I had a same situation. They just clapped, they saw me still playing, but they did no care

[@seamtaro]

It is a pretty common feat especially amongst a lot of non-musicians who clap between movements. But in this scenario he was giving a gesture that in return the audience thought it was finished. I would've kept my arm low and make a bigger and whole sound to then just shift for that dynamic contrast, but then again, sometimes we get into it too much on the music we play, enjoyment at it's finest. Another thing that would've been the cause for that gesture is that dynamic marking. Otherwise, I would still do what I said.

[@user-xr1em8ux2c]

Agree. I made effort to explain this about Yundi Li in his video kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWeUdGyIrNeKY7s but these ignoramus people blame the audience!

[@idiman5553]

Everytime is place to clap

[@bifeldman]

Playing like that deserves continuous applause.

[@eriksatieofficiel]

If he wasn't so exuberant about it, the audience wouldn't have clapped at this moment.

[@lamenamethefirst]

The classical music community needs to chill tf out about clapping. Not clapping between movements or even during the performance was not the norm. Almost every other genre and culture of music has clapping as a real time response to an impressive passage to show appreciation. It's there in most classical music in the east and in jazz and I'm pretty sure people used to freak out during Liszt and Paganini's concerts back in the day. It's the most natural reaction and preventing people from clapping in my opinion is absolutely detrimental to the enjoyment of music.

[@kaleidoscopio5]

There is a video of Pogorelich playing Islamey at Carnegie Hall, and people clapped in the middle of the piece 😐

[@ivanatodorovic8073]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXe2dqhqfsyhbck He handled it marvelously.

[@noahha5972]

Honestly what more could you expect from the typical Carnegie audience?

[@Wkkbooks]

The opera Carmen ends with three loud chords with two silences between them. I was at a performance where the audience started to clap after the first chord and voice shouted out from the balcony "NOT YET!" quelling the applause, and then, after the third chord he shouted "NOW!"

[@lucascecim9102]

This huge C major was asking for an public answer. Lol

[@davidorme1993]

Another good candidate for this one: last movement of the first Liszt piano concerto. That's more the composition than the performer, though.

[@ThomasJCrawleyComposer]

The performer raised his hands in the air as though it had ended. It was just a mistake. Let's just be happy that concerts like this get big audiences still. Plus I don't know what is even necessarily wrong with clapping after movements. I've never heard a good explanation for it to be honest. It's just one of those things that you sort of have to do because you're listening to classical music.

[@jaysverrisson1536]

Maybe this will be come a thing--clapping like they do at ballet performances after some technical feat. Like, ooh, nice octave passage! [Clap! Clap!]😉

[@mza3544]

Im not a full commited classical pianist. I certainly do classical but since not much people like classical here, i most do covers(videos saved in my AC for future reminiscing) so i support applauding mid performance to congratulate a pianist after executing a hard passage. Not many PPL would agree but personally, it gives confidence boost

[@Fafuchess]

Back in the olden days it was completely common to clap while the pianist was playing if they played an especially virtuos part

[@JaseBach]

I am usually the first person in the audience that starts the clapping, before the performer stands up or turns around to bow. The most memorable instance of this was when I was the only person clapping for several seconds after Pogorelich finished playing a quiet ending. In this clip, the pianist clearly brought it on himself. There are some instances where premature clapping might be appropriate, such as at the end of the third movement of the Pathetique, when the conductor would not turn round to acknowledge the applause but plough ahead with the tragic last movement.

[@VictorRamirez-to8xo]

Pianist stealing the bank and being arrested: Police: put your hands up... Pianist: raises his hands... People in the bank: bravooooo 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@eriksatieofficiel]

I will clap whenever I want and there's nothing you can do about it.

[@brandontylerburt]

Honestly, most of the audience is just sitting there tapping their toes or whatever, very few will bring a score with them to follow along. So occasionally, people make mistakes about where the endings are. I've done it before, clapping in the wrong place, and it made me feel embarrassed. Maybe we should all try being a little more compassionate when it does happen. I think Alexei Volodin handles it just right here. The audience got the message right away, and were able to go on enjoying his performance.

[@TheSlowPianist]

The Chopin 4th Ballade one is more brutal.

[@theo5069]

Link?

[@aphraxiaojun1145]

@@theo5069 kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWeUdGyIrNeKY7s

[@DieDichterliebe]

Ive heard people clapping right before de coda, twice!

[@TheSlowPianist]

@@theo5069 I can't find it, unfortunately.

[@Awairaz]

@@theo5069 search up a 4 Ballade performance by Yundi Li at Carnegie Hall where the audience clapped near the end.

[@theUroshman]

The funniest thing was his shaking head and his sour face expression as if saying no, no, I see how you could interpret it as the ending, but there are some more notes Ithe composer wrote for me to play. 😆

[@carlhopkinson]

The clapped because they thought the piece was over.

[@emilioestelar]

Journey through the snow.

[@jbw53191]

Yeah, that's completely on him. He should have known better than to throw his arms up in the air so dramatically before the piece was completed

[@MiguelTicona]

Let they clap man dont say no 🤣 haha

[@pickledrick4800]

This is an aspect of classical music that I find a bit annoying. As a performer, I love to know that the audience is alive and engaged in what I'm doing. Contemporary forms such as jazz get immediate audience gratification lol instead of coughs, sneezes and squirms between movements.

[@lilianaturicianu1652]

I think, the public wanted to go home

[@titaan814]

Everyone knows that you should wait until the notes have rung out completely before you can clap.

[@ElnathanGuzman-Topic]

Yes, they thought it was over!

[@sopkd]

Yea it is, but IF you absolutely LOVE the performance , you can just clap before the notes rung out.

[@titaan814]

@@sopkd i think it should be the otherway around, that if you love the performance, you'd want to enjoy it right up until the end, and so clap only after the performance has fully ended

[@Balingeo]

Nice Stargate SG-1 theme!

[@benburch]

i have seen this happen with chopins 4th ballade where there is a bit of a "false ending".

[@judahwilliams2431]

sacrilegious...

[@tedallison6112]

He's extremely ungracious in his response to the audiences response to his flamboyant histrionics--which are absolutely totally unnecessary. As Horowitz opined " music is controlled emotion " " its not on the outside, it's on the inside"

[@luchethegreat3482]

he handled that well tho

[@parsifal6094]

If by virtuosity you mean throwing your hands into the air, as if the piece is finished.... Sometimes composers also make that miscalculation of a seemingly false ending without realizing how it works on the audience (showcase Tchaikovsky 5th, last movement) Also, better a clapping audience during the piece, than a silent one at the end of it

[@louf7178]

I think you're making too much out of it. It was slight applause that stopped quickly, and he gave the signal that he anticipated might start applause.

[@IEEMAZ_Convoluted_14.2.8.5]

The audience needs to watch some more TwoSetViolin 😂

[@williammaestre9318]

So what… like a jazz …. to express the transmission of sensitivity and virtuosity and applaud it, why not? archaic behavior schemes... the music is above that

[@fb7876]

And the most part was played with one volume...

[@amj.composer]

"A new low" really?

[@hansdekorver7365]

It is the pianist who himself stops , so...........

[@arthurhorowitz5345]

He can only blame himself! I bet he reduced the hand movement at that bit of the piece to avoid the applause in future concerts!

[@infectedbanana591]

He was holding the sustain pedal, so no, he did not stop.

[@kphoenix5942]

It’s not just the flamboyant movement of the arms: he inserts a HUGE pause before the arpeggios begin. A quarter-note pulse, maybe even longer. Super super indulgent. What did he think was going to happen?

[@douwemusic]

@@kphoenix5942 Indulgent? When did logical musical timing become indulgent?

[@vichernandezii]

I don’t really see a problem with people clapping or getting excited. If anything, I’d welcome it because if you’re performing a piece that has such character like this it’s hard not to just be in awe of the person performing. I know it’s distracting to get applause, believe me, I’ve played many concerts. Just my opinion.

[@ks2091]

In this performance of Balakirev's Islamey kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXe2dqhqfsyhbck , Ivo doesn't throw up his hands or anything but he does lean backwards a bit, and it definitely is the audience's fault for clapping in the wrong spot

[@deeneno8267]

His fault for lifting his hands so high.

[@TomTom53421]

I have listened to the whole performance, and I think this was the case of an over-enthusiastic audience. They clapped at everything partly because this happened in Russia where the nutcracker originated, so they’d know the music way better. They’re also treating it as if it’s the actual ballet where you clap for each variation. I think however, the ones who did clap during this movement probably were confused, or they don’t know ballet or classical music and we’re just following the audience, who knows really….

[@Caroline1261]

They should educate people. Maybe the MD or the Conductor, whomever is presenting the concert should tell people that you don't clap in between movements(tell how many movement there are), and you don't clap until the pianist has taken his hands of the keyboard. Or it could even be written in the program.

[@musical_lolu4811]

Yeah, way to alienate an already declining classical audience number-wise.

[@user-xr1em8ux2c]

No...they should educate performers how to be less self-indulgent and to focus upon making music properly.

[@Caroline1261]

@@musical_lolu4811 I think that audience are declining because music is not taught in schools anymore?

[@Caroline1261]

@@user-xr1em8ux2c Let's agree to disagree?

[@user-xr1em8ux2c]

@@Caroline1261 Nah, we disagree pure and simple. On the other hand, I do understand your suggestion and it is valid way to help educate audience at a concert. In this idea you are correct, but these days too many pianists are playing as though they are in MTV video and it is stupid.

[@insight827]

Honestly, all the pompous holier-than-thou frowning upon breaches of so-called "Audience Etiquette" is what turns people away from classical music. In Mozart's day, clapping whenever you wanted was encouraged, and Mozart wrote in letters saying he was thrilled when the audience clapped during a piece.

[@musical_lolu4811]

One of the factors, yeah. There's some video discussing the issue of elitism in the 'classical music world' today.

[@1389Chopin]

It is forgivable - audiences can't know every piece of music and if you perform - and you in the moment - maybe take it as a compliment that you were able to evoke that reaction - it brings life to the performance. As an amateur myself - it throws me off because i'm just not that good - but give it up to the pros :-)

[@CasualCreateOr]

It's not really a big deal tho

[@curaticac5391]

Nothing extraordinary; a handful of people thought that the piece was over.

[@haosongwang4958]

What piece is that?

[@alessandropalazzani]

Nutcracker, in the pine forest. The piece just before snowflakes waltz

[@Mezzotenor]

Actually, he didn't need to make that climax so thunderingly loud. It's partly his fault that the audience thought the piece was over.

[@AydarAkhmady]

But why not to make it loud if it’s written ffff in the sheet.

[@infectedbanana591]

fff buddy, fff.

[@Mezzotenor]

In fairness to Aydar, YES, Tchaikovsky specified "fff" and "con tutta forza" in the orchestral original of the number. Still, I think it's possible, and wise moreover, to avoid the sense of a loud, applause-inducing finish. And I see now that other commenters to this clip have mentioned specific ways for a performer to keep that from happening.

[@maratgubaidullin7788]

Too much noise from the pianist. I could even hear the audience.

[@adrianocastaldini]

Volodin's bad, IMO: the arms' gesture was too much eloquent and "universally" recognized as a closing gesture.

[@MiguelTicona]

Bro this piece is only putting some clichês chords and arpegios in a white keys there is no honor in this

[@christophersurnname9967]

That’s 100% the audiences fault and not his fault. Performers should be able to do some basic movements and briefly throw their arms up for a quick moment upon striking a final chord right before entering into a new section.

[@user-xr1em8ux2c]

No. That is not correct.

[@null8295]

we should just end this "clapping" tribal-crap one and for all and enjoy silence

[@ElnathanGuzman-Topic]

They don't know classical music that much, and we're in Rock/pop era, it's normal, you can't blame them, they do not know all classical pieces, and they always thought that we've finished the piece between movements, since our hands are not on the keyboard when we take pauses, sometimes they won't clap "if our hands are on the keyboard. So we're making a mistake there, you shouldn't blame the audiences for your works, and in addition, they always appreciate it! Be happy!

[@null8295]

@@ElnathanGuzman-Topic my point is, why clapping at all? It's just noise. What's the point of it? We already recognise the "bravura" of the performer by focusing on what he is doing, and if not, you can just leave. There is no need for this silly and annoying tradition.

[@GUILLOM]

@@null8295 Clapping is the way we have thank both the performer and composer for the music. If no one clapped at the end of performances, how would we celebrate the music? how would the performer know that the audience liked the performance? Wouldn't it be extremely dry to let the interpreter(s) leave in silence?

[@null8295]

@@GUILLOM what about nothing as a "thanks", and walking away as a "pitiful"? Makes more sense to me, dry or not, I just hate noise.

[@IvarsBezdechi]

The wrong notes remind me of the bloody brutal Russian massacre in Bucha, Ukraine...

[@Pravoslavnu]

u mean there was no wrong notes?

[@theoperapiano]

But but but why can we clap after a great jazz solo or riff, but in classical music you have all these silly archaic rules. This is why it's dying - stupid...

[@jorgeidelsohn]

Ignorante publico

[@ElnathanGuzman-Topic]

No saben mucho de música clásica, y estamos en la era del rock/pop, es normal, no puedes culparlos, no conocen todas las piezas clásicas, y siempre pensaron que habíamos terminado la pieza entre movimientos, ya que nuestras manos no están en el teclado cuando hacemos pausas, a veces no aplaudirán "si nuestras manos están en el teclado. Entonces estamos cometiendo un error allí, no debes culpar al público por tus obras, y además, siempre lo agradecen ¡Sé feliz!

[@GUILLOM]

Ignorante comentario

[@andreaguarino8207]

People are ignorant in this world

[@aluisaac]

Thanks to this kind of snobism the people dont listen classical music. We have to evolve

[@ElnathanGuzman-Topic]

They don't know classical music that much, and we're in Rock/pop era, it's normal, you can't blame them, they do not know all classical pieces, and they always thought that we've finished the piece between movements, since our hands are not on the keyboard when we take pauses, sometimes they won't clap "if our hands are on the keyboard. So we're making a mistake there, you shouldn't blame the audiences for your works, and in addition, they always appreciate it! Be happy!

[@aluisaac]

@@ElnathanGuzman-Topic dude we arent in rock era, we are in reggaeton and trap era. And that is more disgusting

[@GUILLOM]

You are a great example of your own comment :D

[@GUILLOM]

@@aluisaac It's more disgusting because...? Let me take a guess, "I don't like it and therefore it's bad"