Where Does 2D Sonic Go From Here?

[@tylerherr4288]

i swear people REALLY underestimate rush 21:51 L kick into that alcove there 21:54 jump as far as you can off that rail 21:58 do tricks and perform a trick finisher upwards off of this ramp and land on the spring 22:00 the same as the last and do the trick finisher before you hit the pawn 22:03 L kick to gain more distance through the tunnel and save on boost power 22:07 jump off the wall and boost over the dash ring 22:11 perform tricks then L kick as soon as you are over the platform rush is how a sonic game should be easy to mindlessly play as most people that review the game does hard to notice all the platforming you can do to beat the stages even faster and this goes for ALL reviews of sonic rush dont tell me and other people that rush doesnt have interaction when it requires TONS of player interaction just to get a semi decent act time

[@Sonic3Knuckles]

7:45 I completely disagree. Rings at least in sonic 3 could be used to access bonus stages for sheilds or even more rings. This is extremely helpful to achieve super or hyper sonic forms in areas that are more annoying when trying to keep rings such as death egg act 2. Also being able to collect hundreds of rings from stage knowledge and bonus stage skill is a dophamine rush.

[@Harrinsain]

I don't at all agree with the criticism lobbed at all the classics' water levels. While that given to labyrinth makes total sense, Acquatic Ruin, Chemical Plant and Hidden palace use the water as a punishment for poor performance. In all three of these levels, if you know what you're doing, you don't have to touch the water even once. The issue in Labyrinth is that regardless of how well you play, the game forces you to go through the water. Admittedly, the same can be said of Hydrocity, but if you'll allow me to play apologetics a bit, I don't think it's a fair assessment to write Hydrocity off as Labyrinth's equal, considering that sans the water being compulsory, Hydrocity is a significantly better designed level. I do agree with the idea that making the water fun to engage with rather than something to avoid could totally afford a new and interesting experience unlike anything these games have done before, but that doesn't warrant writing what the series has done with it in the past off as universally poor...because it isn't.

[@aydenrozzelle7691]

But, it is...it's poor game design. Don't let the nastolgia goggles blind you.

[@aydenrozzelle7691]

Why do fans just forgive these bad choices. That's why we keep getting crap.

[@Harrinsain]

@@aydenrozzelle7691 how is it poor design? The water in those levels exists as a punishment for poor performance; you fail, you get punished by the water, which will bog you down and mess up your run. The aim, in these levels, particularly aquatic ruin is to stay on the top path so you can completely avoid the water. On what planet is that bad design?

[@BraviaGames]

@@aydenrozzelle7691 Explain, please.

[@aydenrozzelle7691]

@@Harrinsain It doesn't reward good impulse and platforming. It rewards those who take hours learning the entire level beforehand. The garbage camera makes it worse.

[@equinoxo8813]

"How to Revamp 2D Sonic." "So sonic is about momentum, skilled platforming, and blazing through stages *granted* the player either knows the stage well enough or has the reflexes." "So lets fix this by copying features from games that were never designed around momentum or speed, have sonic just stop in his tracks at random points to fulfill complex systems, and have levels that capitalize on neither momentum or speed because SPEED IS BAD!" Listen I get what you mean by railroad levels that focus only on speed but this ain't it chief. You have a point with "Taking out the skill and only leaving speed." but that doesn't mean the solution is to take out all the speed and focus only on skill. Honestly, some of the concepts here are cool. The freedom/parkour mechanic is cool and could allow for a FAST sonic that traverses diagonal and verticle levels much better. But all in all, this new Sonic just comes off as slow and a copy of other indie titles because "Old = Bad"

[@ghhn4505]

To be fair, he's not saying that this is 100% how the future of Sonic should be, the video mainly points out things he thinks Sonic should take from other modern platformers before showing off his fangame at the end and how he personally implemented some of those ideas.

[@lavfromtheinternet]

It's sad to see that nearly 50 minutes of analysis came to such a disappointing conclusion. Sonic's speed means nothing without a simple point A to B objective and the goal of a speedrun time. I don't want to be going at absurd speeds if my primary goal is to be exploring and looking for items. Your ideas just come off as shortsighted, ditching things because they're "archaic" without full consideration for if they really are and blindly adopting philosophies and mechanics from other games simply because they're successful and popular rather than because they fundamentally work with Sonic. This isn't really an evolution for 2D Sonic at all, it's not refined enough to be one and goes at odds with the general appeal of the character in favor of intro animations and the fleeting feeling of satisfaction you get for finding a ring box at the top of Green Hill.

[@carb_rta]

thank you. this video seemed intriguing in my recommendations, and I was interested in what they think would be a good formula to bring classic Sonic's linear, addictive momentum based speedrunning gameplay into the future without watering it down, so it really disappointed me to see that they didn't actually have one and think the real answer is to make a game that superficially resembles sonic without appealing to any of the reasons we play Sonic games. I mean, adding back in the speed cap from sonic 1 and removing the timer? open metroidvania gameplay without individual linear levels to be ran through? fucking stopping to refill health? who is this for? anyone who enjoys this gameplay already has two overcrowded subgenres full of amazing games to play

[@carb_rta]

gl to the devs on their game though, seems like it will be cool and unique even if it's not the evolution of sonic's core concept that the video hypes it up to be

[@lavfromtheinternet]

@@carb_rta I think that's the part that gets me the most. It's a concept for a Sonic game that's ultimately aimed at people who wouldn't be interested in one to begin with.

[@WaterKirby1994]

Agreed Timer Removal feels really weird for Sonic seeing as that is the normal in an act & even 3D Stage based structure. While a Metroidvania Sonic could work with different characters being able to access different areas it wouldn't be the true 2D Platforming that the series is known for.

[@undeadbatman9762]

I agree

[@Finfection]

A lot of the design choices here do not at all sound like an evolution for 2d Sonic. It's just a straight up different game. A lot of people don't seem to understand that classic Sonic gameplay is all about memorization and reward. Speed is a reward, so why have a speed cap when your average player won't ever go fast enough to need a speed cap? Keeping your ring count high is a reward for being able to make it through an act without taking damage. Avoiding water is a reward for learning the best path through the level. Super Sonic is a reward for finding and beating all the special stages. A lot of these are things NO ONE does on their first few times playing. It only comes after playing over and over again. Classic Sonic rewards you for replaying and learning as the player. There is also different gameplay styles in the fact that you have different characters that can handle obstacles in their own ways. I keep coming back to Sonic Mania just to play as Knuckles, Ray, and Mighty. On the surface these characters play exactly like Sonic as they have all of his base moves. But they also have their own special abilities that allow them to traverse a zone in ways Sonic can't. Characters like Ray and Knuckles are able to build airborne momentum and give a more parkour feel to the gameplay. Idk. When I see videos like this it just feels like certain people don't even like Sonic and just wish it was a different game entirely. Your game doesn't look or sound bad at all. It actually looks pretty cool. But, as an evolution for 2d Sonic gameplay? Nah.

[@Tom-jw7ii]

About the speed cap, I’m pretty sure it’s there just to prevent Sonic from going too fast for the collision to handle. I think you can easily hit the cap running down the slopes in Chemical Plant.

[@DarkDekicDuka]

I HATE playing the classic Sonic games. Like legit hate. The whole design philosophy of "fuck you here's a badnik" is horrible. First time players should be able to have fun with Sonic without the game trolling them.

[@DManSammy]

"Keeping your ring count high is a reward for being able to make it through an act without taking damage." YES

[@DarkDekicDuka]

@@DManSammy Having full health is also a reward for getting through without getting hit…. The problem is you people aren’t even willing to consider changing anything.

[@axl256gamesx7]

@@DarkDekicDuka you dont deserve to call yourself a sonic fan Ok no, but i think you are taking things too far

[@bluewulv]

I don't mind the rings being as they are now, but adding parkour to blend in with the high speed and platforming like the spiderman ps4 game would really be neat.

[@ultramatum0]

That would be fun to play

[@mushsect7511]

This feels more of a classic sonic game for ori and hollow knight fans rather than an next step for 2d sonic, with ring cost of certain abilities and the shop/charm system being standouts. Now this isn't a bad idea at all but not what I would have anticipated when watching.

[@aydenrozzelle7691]

...I don't see how that's a bad thing. Let it be more like those better 2d games.

[@mushsect7511]

@@aydenrozzelle7691 I don't think it's a bad thing at all as I said, plus I love hollowknight myself. If anything it might loose a bit of the same feeling you'd get when playing the older games and feel more like others like ori and hk.

[@corruptedteka]

I agree, while this is definitely an idea that can work... it's not the core appeal of Sonic.

[@aydenrozzelle7691]

@@corruptedteka then what heck is the appeal. I don't get you sonic fans. As long as a game has good, fast platforming, a decent story maybe with some lore, and some good music, you guys should be happy.

[@aydenrozzelle7691]

@Welp yes and that. We don't want another sonic 4. Actually those are the reasons I even started arguing. I think sonic is behind when it comes to controls. Level design is kind of annoying in my opinion. And the physics are good but sometimes I find it weird.

[@Luluco_G]

I think making Sonic less about Memorization and more about parkour and fast reactions would remove a lot of the appeal sonic games have for me personally. I love replaying the games dozens of times while having a lot of hurdles on the first go and running into a lot of spikes and obstacles. Without those, i would just run through them without feeling challenged or having a lot to master. Only being allowed to go fast when you know what to do, and going slow if you don't is key, because going fast is the reward and not a given. I think a lot of our disagreements show in the the games you like and used as examples here. I'm not really a huge fan of Ori, Hollow Knight and Rayman, although I love games like Celeste. So i think we just have a fundamentally incompatible outlook. I did love your analysis of all the past games though, great job on that!

[@TechBlade9000]

Nooo Sonic is about memorization and parkour Naka turning no save files into a feature

[@Moald]

@@TechBlade9000 haha yeah, Sonic 3&K and Sonic Mania never had a save feature

[@JaredThe]

with all the mention of souls-likes and metroidvanias I was honestly just expecting the next suggestion to be a new Tails Adventure game, which imo would be a great thing in itself. Yeah honestly, a modern take on Tails Adventure that takes influence from the likes of Ori and Hollow Knight? Could be an amazing game, that's a game I absolutely dream of lol. Sonic Freedom does sound amazing as well though, it's interesting to see how those influences made its way into a game more Sonic-oriented, love the look of it :). That Tails Adventure idea though, that's something I really wanna tackle myself one day, or see someone try to pull off.

[@tripplejaz]

Great idea!

[@JaredThe]

@@tripplejaz It's one of my dream Sonic fan game ideas lol, thank you very much! A new Tails Metroidvania could be so cool :).

[@Gnidel]

@@JaredThe Have you played Sonic Chrono Adventure? It's a really good Sonic metroidvania fan game. I suggest playing Sonic After The Sequel first because it's a sequel to that (it's worth playing on its own anyway). It's a proof that Sonic metroidvania doesn't have to stray too far from classics. LakeFeperd's trilogy (there's also Sonic Before the Sequel) is my entire top 3 favorite fan games.

[@jaredtherock5692]

Hey, you got a cool name. I hope you make that Tails Adventure remake. :)

[@scrubscrub4492]

What we really need is a new Shadow the Hedgehog Joking aside a Knuckles Chaotix 2 would be a great idea.

[@ChipChapChop]

Good presentation, Jaz!! I know we differ quite dramatically on what we think Sonic is, and what he ought to be in the future. But, I am supremely pumped to see your vision realized. Ideal or not, it's a fantastic interpretation that deserves to be experienced, explored, and considered. Sonic as a "MetroidVania" just isn't something I'm interested in. Personally, I want to see a more traditional linear "obstacle course" platformer, very much inspired by *Rayman Legends* and *Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze*. But, I do love the Freedom and player expression of the open design of *Sonic Freedom*. (I can't wait for parkour to be in the demo!) There must be a way to resolve having carefully crafted courses for a player to run through, while also affording the freedom and expression of an open 2D "MetroidVania"-style world. As for 2D Sonic's future: nothing is quite as unique as that original Sonic. I don't think the depth of that original design has even been scratched. Not by SEGA. Not by the fans. Not by anyone. To me, Sonic's future should be to go back and actually refine and build on that core design. That being said: not everything was perfect, and there is room for new ideas and mechanics; even many that *Freedom* proposes. Sonic still has so much potential, which is pretty astounding. (I 100% agree that Lives, Timers, and Scores need to gtfo. But, we'll have to have a discussion about those Rings...)

[@aydenrozzelle7691]

Having a meteoidvania style sonic game will make the world feel connected. And usually in these metroidvanias that means hidden lore. I love the idea. I just hope the transitions to different areas are good.

[@drthvrdr]

@@aydenrozzelle7691 There's actually a somewhat rpg/metroidvania style sonic fangame by the creator of Sonic ATS and BTS called Chrono Adventure. It's got some weird issues and bugs but overall I suggest it, it's pretty fun to play around with the abilities you get

[@magNICKal]

I love the scores in Sonic though. I remember when I was a kid I would try to go for the highest scores possible. That was pretty much my goal when I was playing Sonic. To get a higher score, and part of that was going fast because you got a time bonus if you finished quickly. The timer should stay because it adds a little bit of competitive nature to Sonic games even if it's single player. I think that Sonic should add an online leaderboard for how quickly you finish the act that you would see at the end of the act clearing.

[@pointwoods]

I think a lot of these ideas are great! I am no game developer so I might not fully understand, but, a lot of these features feel like shoving mechanics from other popular games into sonic without much thought. Why should sonic need to stop every time he gets hit to charge a meter and keep going, the beauty of the rings comes not just from their simplicity but also in how they keep the player moving. Unless you're concerned with having a high ring count, you can just wiz on by after getting hit as long as you've collected a single ring. It stops you in your tracks when you get hit, but it doesn't expect you to wait around before continuing on with the level. Charging your health makes sense in a game like hollow knight, which is very combat focused. It leaves you vulnerable for a short period of time while recovering, creating a risk-reward system. Any moments healing could end in less health than you started with. Sonic doesn't have this, the way sonic interacts with the world is not defined by the enemies but rather the environment, having him charge in order to refill some health bar does nothing but slow you down, something that is already achieved at the point you make contact with an enemy. Its completely redundant and wouldn't add much to the gameplay, and at the end of the day, sonic doesn't need a health bar because breaking your flow of gameplay is punishment enough. At its core sonic has never been about endurance or combat, and I think it should stay that way.

[@SoIstice]

@Celzabuu Jones I'm not sure you know what you're even talking about. Sure, Shadow the Hedgehog tried to turn Sonic into an FPS, but that was literally one game. Sonic 06 had a lot of problems, but none of them were caused by Sega trying to take ideas from other popular games, in fact 06 has so much more in common with the Adventure games than any popular game from around the time that I can think of. As for Unleashed? Fine, Werehog stages definitely are taking inspiration from character action games like God of War, yeah, but those are only one half of the game, with the boost stages being completely unique to Sonic as they bring Rush's gameplay into a 3D space. Colors followed up with the boost gameplay, as did Generations. Lost World tried something different and similar to Mario Galaxy, but as similar as it is, Sonic has been playing with gravity in its levels since 2001 in SA2 so that really doesn't apply as much as you'd think it does. Then Forces goes back to boodt gameplay (albeit bad boost gameplay). Modern Sonic games are a lot of things, but to say they copy other popular games is just bizarre and completely missing every valid point you could bring up against those games because most of the games released have literally been boost games which is a style Sonic pretty much originated as far as I know. If you're talking about spinoffs though, I have to ask if they even count, like no one says Mario Strikers is ripping off Fifa.

[@yungmuney5903]

"At its core sonic has never veen about endurance or combat, and I think it should stay that way." Mmm idk about the latter chief. Considering that Sonic is a pretty action shonen like series (or used to be anyways, pre-colors), a genre that involves lots of combat, the comics generally having alot more complex combat in them too (cause it's not like seeing them jumping on the enemy over and over again would be interesting to see), and seeing the fanmade portrayals of Sonic in fast, high-octane, brutal fight scenes e.g. SMBZ. A Sonic game with a focus on combat with the philosophies of past games would be REALLY fucking sick.

[@pointwoods]

@@yungmuney5903 Sonic is a lot of different things to a lot of different people, and I'm not one to tell you you're wrong for having an opinion about sonic. But this is about the evolution of the 2D sonic games. Do you really think hollow knight style endurance combat is the logical next step for the series? Regardless of if you personally like a focus on combat in the sonic series, it's undeniable that most people aren't coming to these games for that. You can look to the sonic unleashed launch to see this in practice. Combat takes the focus away from the environment, and classic sonic is defined by how he interacts with his environment. Focus on combat conflicts with a lot of the series core concepts. Enemies that halt your progress and force you to defeat them in the middle of a level serve only to slow down the player. Thus, enemies are usually secondary to the environment in sonic games, or at least in my personal favorite sonic games.

[@thefriendlydefault9684]

how is picking up rings any different

[@randocommando7945]

It's worth noting that Sonic Advance 2 and 3 specifically give rings a greater purpose besides health, which is having them increase your acceleration and top speed. It’s very noticeable once you get 100+ rings, and it's quite a nice system. It adds to the value of rings because now they have a noticeable effect on you as you collect more, which is allowing you to move through levels more quickly. Also, Sonic Team had involvement in the Advance games too, not just the Rush series.

[@BaneStudio]

Oh this video will be popping off. Great work and get ready TrippleJaz! Keep up the Momentum!

[@Badger1610]

Real bop

[@MaherandIbrahimsAvengers]

It sounds to me that you don't want a Sonic game, you want a Rayman game "Sonic Freedom" just looks like Rayman with Sonic slapped on it I also feel like your missing the point of 2D Sonic. The games have always been meant to be about getting to the end as fast as possible. And it seems that ur just removing things for the sake of change and not because it would benefit Sonic

[@games_on_phone89]

exactly

Have you thought of turning Sonic Freedom into it's own independent game ? I can see it being really successful if the new world is charming enough. Would also allow you to open a crowd fund to give it a higher budget.

[@thefriendlydefault9684]

My thought exactly I want to see this game get the love and support it deserves. Also not making it a sonic fan game will shut up the few people who disagree with the direction.

[@Legoluigi26]

The first 30 minutes of this video are a near perfect retrospective and introduction for anybody looking to get into Classic Sonic. It even skips that tired old story about the console wars and Sega internal contest that every video even tangentially related to Sonic feels obliged to spend 5 excruciating minutes on. Also, good luck on Sonic Freedom!

[@rahememartin1644]

I feel like the only way to replace rings and life's in a nonlinear, non A to B, non stage to stage game is to make TIME sonic's life. Give sonic a clock that ticks down for the entire game and each death take off a set amount of time or have consecutive deaths increasingly take off even more time off the clock if its not reset like in sifu. you can have rings add 30 seconds to the clock when 100 rings are collected or reset the death timer from taking more time after the next death.

[@axl256gamesx7]

I actually like this idea a lot, is similar to the classic sonic games but it also makes you go faster, is much better than the hp system sonic freedom has in my opinion

[@TheDelusionalBlueberry]

Sonic 4 Scrambled Eggs was gonna have the idea of Time basically being Sonic's life system before it got cancelled & reworked into a brand new Sonic fan game.

[@Croz89]

I think the issue with some of these proposed mechanics is they break flow and grind the game to a halt. While many sonic games have had slower paced sections, these are generally between levels. Giving players too much freedom also introduces choice paralysis and minmaxing over enjoying the rush. It works for slow, more methodical platformers with very long levels, but I don't think it will work for sonic. Perhaps talking notes from something like Cuphead, where there's a shop to purchase abilities before playing a level. You could have the number of rings left at the end of a level put into a "bank" which you can spend between levels on a limited number of special moves. That said, art style wise, I would love to see something that looks straight out of a 90's cartoon or anime. Being wedded to pixel art to preserve the "classic" feel is eventually going to get stale. Imagine playing something that looks like AoSTH, or sonic SATAM, or even sonic X!

[@thefriendlydefault9684]

classic sonic never had all so fast levels, most were fairly slow

[@karc4]

God you got all the worst examples, 90s Sonic is ugly af, and Sonic X's style isn't the one with the most, well, style, if anything it gotta look like the Sonic Cd's Intro, Sonic's OVA, the Sonic 2000s artwork for various games like Adventure, Advance and Rush, and at worse case scenario (which is actually really good), Tyson Heese's style or Sonic Origins' opening cutscene artstyle

[@Croz89]

@@karc4 Well that's just your opinion.

[@Solesteam]

There's a reason I like replaying Sonic CD's Metal Sonic fight, a fast race from point A to point B because that's what Sonic was made for, his existence all culminated for that one fateful race! Not to mention, it blended his speed with careful platforming with a top path that avoids the spikes that would normally slow you down had you taken the seemingly faster at first glance lower route that Metal sticks to, Sonic was meant to be a rival to Mario _at first_ but Sonic wasn't exactly meant to become Mario 64 but 2D, while the gameplay looks amazing, it feels weird and unlike Sonic to be tossed into a world where his objective is to explore and calculate which combination of moves should he do to go somewhere where he isn't sure anything even hidden, honestly that looks like it would be a better Mario fan game if it weren't for the loopy loops.

[@axl256gamesx7]

Yeah, sonic freedom doesnt feel sonic... it feels like rayman after 20 coffees to me

[@thefriendlydefault9684]

@@axl256gamesx7 My biggest problem with sonic fans is they can not tolerate the idea of change. They are unwilling to accept anything other than an on-rails a-to-b experience unless it comes from sega themselves. They seem to think that whatever sonic is, needs to be; and treat anything else as inferior, saying it just doesn't feel like sonic. As far as gameplay I believe sonic has strayed too far from his roots, however, core philosophy outside of gameplay has not changed enough.

[@axl256gamesx7]

@@thefriendlydefault9684 the problem is not that I would love changes But this just doesnt feel like a sonic game The thing about sonic is being fast, so the rings, being easy collectibles to evade dying, make you more confident, sonyou go faster But having to go slower not only bc the health is different, but also bc of the skills Is just not sonic-ish Sonic is not about platforming Sonic is about speed

[@axl256gamesx7]

@@thefriendlydefault9684 also why so mad?

[@axl256gamesx7]

@@thefriendlydefault9684 i would love a reintroduction of the time travel in a faster method Lile in sonic time twisted I would accept any skill that doesnt slow sonic down, wether it helps to build speed in some way like the spin dash, or helps maneuvers like the drop dash I like movility

[@KouD3Graw]

13:20 Why can't sonic do ANY kind of propelling underwater with his feet makes no sense. He's fast. They could just introduce a boost mechanic underwater that allows him to move himself faster underwater for a short time. Giving him a more steering motion under water at the cost of some control, but it's almost as if he's flying underwater. Him just sinking is weak. Why they haven't come up with this yet amazes me. It's not difficult to make under water levels when all you have to do is add new mechanics for the new environment to keep a sense of momentum.

[@ChipChapChop]

Frankly, his physics underwater are completely illogical. Like, he's not going to sink like a stone and be able to walk along the ground just because he can't swim. And there's no special mechanics offered by being underwater, aside from drowning. (Fun! /s) So why have an underwater stage at all? There's literally no point.

[@Sonic_ParadoxYT]

I just don’t know how to swim. ( *i should take swimming lessons…* )

[@shir0azure339]

(TLDR Sonic doesn't need to swim, Tails does) At first, I agreed with your comment, then I looked at a speedrun of hydro city from sonic 3 and saw how you can completely skip the water. Now I understand why Sonic can't swim. Having no save was made into a feature for Sonic at the time. The game rewards multiple playthroughs and turns everyone into a speedrunner. Water is a *punishment* for not understanding the level design. Like how all of the other zones have multiple routes, with the top routes being the fastest. The *reward* is avoiding the water which gets easier the more you play. I think you still have a point tho and a better solution would be Tails. Tails could -always- swim because he could -always- fly. He can skip those platforming challenges because he was the easy mode. Instead of giving Sonic the ability to swim, Tails swim like in Rayman Legends. Boom! Problem solved!

[@Outta-hz1ej]

This was a fantastic video BUT I think lives are needed for a Sonic game. like you said, players get better by memorizing a level. I wouldn't use the word "memory". I would say learn. you learn how sonic levels are built by playing them over and over. forcing a player back to an act 1 of a level offers the player the opportunity for another chance to master the level and get better for act 2.

[@Gnidel]

I disagree. Sonic has extreme difference in performance depending on skill, more than other games. As a result, it's hard to balance them right, so new players get discouraged from going fast because they didn't develop the trust into levels and veterans simply don't die so lives don't affect them. Lack of lives, just like ring system, encourages players to at least try going fast.

[@ukyoize]

Not really. Just have rings be deposited into a bank at the end of the level, which then can be spend on whatever

[@LaserBungalow]

Limited lives are bad

[@WeeklyTubeShow2]

Some of this sounds like a better way forward for 3D, honestly.

[@corruptedteka]

I didn't know you were the Sonic Freedom person ! I was just watching the vid because I love Sonic video essays. What a great find !! I admire everything this video is and includes so much ! People like you are an inspiration to me- Of course, your solution isn't THE solution, and I think I would've liked this better if you split this video up and had another one talking about how YOU see the Sonic 2D scene instead of objectively, there you could've gone in depth about Sonic Freedom, and leave this video open-ended for people to make their own opinions and ideas !

[@Samevi]

I always felt like the timer was the most important part of a Sonic game. Sonic's ideal for me is when you can easily get hooked on the concept of speedrunning a stage without sacrificing the gameplay, and as a result much of the satisfaction I get from Sonic is completing stages multiple times to see the time spent on that stage decrease the more I do. Even so, I think Freedom looks great, and I can't wait to play the full game.

[@thefriendlydefault9684]

That is if the game is an a-to-b platformer, not a Metroidvania. How would you add a timer to Hollow Knight?

[@Samevi]

@@thefriendlydefault9684 Almost every Metroidvania tells you your completion time. Including Hollow Knight, I believe.

[@thefriendlydefault9684]

@@Samevi Yes, that is true, but the timer does not show up in-game and has no role in showing how well you played the game. Having a timer that constantly shows above ten hours of gameplay has no purpose, and just takes up screen space.

[@Samevi]

@@thefriendlydefault9684 Speedrunners would display the IGT on the HUD.

[@thefriendlydefault9684]

@@Samevi It would be an admittedly awesome feature to have an in-game speedrun timer but far from needed.

[@Monolithium]

While I love the passion behind the idea, this feels like more of a different game entirely. I do look forward to what's in store, just it doesn't feel like a true evolution of sonic, rather pieces of what works from other games and putting the sonic brand onto it to create something new.

[@thefriendlydefault9684]

Why does it not feel "true?" I am genuinely asking.

[@sans.4314]

Good fan game but this is kind of much more complex than the simplistic classic sonic games Unfortunately i cannot elaborate the flaws that i can see because of English not being my first language Anyways, good luck and i wish you all the best for this project

[@axl256gamesx7]

Dejame ayudarte El sistema de vida es horrible, lo de la velocidad maxima es una estupidez, oh, y tambien la otra a habilidad de sonic, simplemente es incomoda de ver

[@LyritZian]

You are very analytical and have some great ideas, and I wish you the best. But I gotta be 100% honest: while it was fanciful, a lot of this presentation was filler with painful pacing. Going into the extreme minutia of e.g. what power-ups there were in the originals and what they do just to completely drop them and omit them from the _actual_ conversation was not needed. While talking about the bases of your project helps, you spared too much detail that was ultimately irrelevant.

[@thefriendlydefault9684]

I am very surprised by how many people oppose puting sonic into a huge beautiful playground, where you can run, roll, and parkour all around the environment. It seems to be the next obvious and natural step.

[@Damian-cilr2]

tbh.i wouldn't oppose it but.3d games work way better for open environments than 2d games.mostly because it adds,well another dimension,because you can only go 4 ways in 2d,left right,up and down,and way more in 3d i'm not saying that the game will be bad.just its probably not for me.because i kinda dislike having to explore around everywhere and sometimes not even knowing where to go to find the thing neccesary to progress,which was one of sonic unleashed's major flaws,and unnecessary padding in the form of sun and moon medals

[@thefriendlydefault9684]

@@Damian-cilr2 have you played Hollow Knight

[@Damian-cilr2]

@@thefriendlydefault9684 no not really.but i'm not really sure i'd like it,i usually kinda dislike games that are hard

[@thefriendlydefault9684]

@@Damian-cilr2 It is hard but is gave me a whole new perspective on games as a whole and is in my opinion the greatest game ever made

[@IdiotRebecca251]

I’m a pretty big fan of that prospect but I also understand people talking about Sonic’s main appeal usually being getting from point A to B, at the same time it feels like people treat it as if there can only be one or the other, the easiest compromise would be either A. A big hub-world that houses all the stages B. A Bowser’s Fury esque side game where you run around a map and collect Red Rings or some other collectible I lean more towards the first one but the point is that you can have your cake and eat it too But then again I don’t think Mr. Jaz would want to listen to somebody like me, no I will not elaborate

[@YodaMorpheus7]

I think that the Hollow Knight health system is better left to Hollow Knight. Actually, I think the system they're planning to add to Silksong would be much better, given that it's a much more aggressive game than Hollow Knight (fitting Sonic much better by not reducing your speed). About rings, I like how the *exceptional* rom hack Metal Sonic Rebooted did it, having multiple special moves you could pull off by spending rings and having them transfer with you through zones. Every time you got hit you lost about 15 rings. No matter what you decide to make, I've always loved the Sonic CD intro cutscene and OVA, so I'd be really pleased to play Sonic Freedom for the physics and artstyle alone.

[@tripplejaz]

I should play that romhack. That ring system sounds kinda genius. Thanks for the name drop!

[@g_ato3337]

I think something people kinda forgot is that sonic is a plattaformer, mainly focused on speed, but a plattaformer, sometimes people sometimes just want fast levels with very little plataform sections.

[@typreegamingtpg2198]

40:55 “sonified” ain’t no way this man really just turned sonic into an adjective yeah this is unprecedented

[@NoNamex1412]

I need to start using that word more in my vocabulary

[@corruptedteka]

Not unprecedented at all ! I'm sure you've gotta have heard the word sonicky/sonic-y before ? In sentences like "This doesn't feel sonicky enough.".

[@TWIP98]

While I don't think this is what the future of 2D Sonic should be, as I really believe that A to B level design and mastery of that is one of Sonic's core aspects, I am EXTREMELY interested in seeing a 2D Sonic Metroidvania title. Within those terms, I agree with pretty much everything you had to say, and Sonic Freedom is looking fantastic so far. I suppose my only concern would be sacrificing more focused level design since the player has access to more abilities and the map is more open-ended, but I don't think that's inherently a bad thing, just a different take that I'm kind of desperate to see now :P p.s. your animations for both Freedom and throughout this video were fantastic 🥺

[@Ricedaioh]

Idk why but I'm extremely hyped for this

[@Ricedaioh]

Damn this video's awesome

[@ethantoonshd3119]

@@Ricedaioh ikr

[@the_numb_skull]

This is NOT an evolution of 2D sonic, this is an entirely new and different thing. It’s a good thing and I’m excited for it don’t get me wrong but this by far is not the future of 2D sonic.

[@ASOtheprO]

Even though I know you’re an animator, I still have to say that the editing and animations in this video are amazing. Awesome video

[@kinggalactix]

Might I add that in Unleashed, Sonic in the day stages collects rings to gain speed, and at night, his werehog form uses it as a life force. Classic games should have added that kinda purpose of rings.

[@kevinm.5951]

Its interesting when you get to see other fans visions for the franchise once in a while and while I personally don't think its the direction I'd be excited for, having that belief though is perfectly ok and I liked your ideas and enthusiasm. A lot of what you mentioned I'd like to see in frontuers personally speaking as I feel that ot would work really well for that game even though we haven't seen gameplay yet. As for the whole gameplay loop, I like whats been established and the idea of focusing more on sonic's dynamic movenent around an envuronment built for him rather than memorizing an obstacle course with a static moveset.

[@NeoNoteDev]

21:45 "Ain't nothin' like a funky beat" lmao. I also thought that the style of this song is very similar to the general style of Sonic Rush.

[@ChickenHorse_BOI]

"where does 2d sonic go from here?" Me: Superstars

[@donny2147]

This is the coolest video I’ve watched on KZbin all year dude

[@bredodd]

Classic Sonic should keep getting games like Mania. 2D Sonic as a whole needs new Rush formula games.

[@tripplejaz]

Hey guys, where do you think 2D Sonic should go? Edit: You guys are being really great about respectful disagreement, I appreciate that. I'll probably make a small follow up video addressing some of the main criticisms because I didn't preload a lot of criticism in the video. Join the Lizard Legion: kzbin.infojoin Sonic Freedom KZbin: kzbin.info/door/kM-gJFiTcz-p69aJbJoEog Sonic Freedom Twitter: twitter.com/SonicFreedom_

[@ChipChapChop]

[@blakeskit]

YOU FORGOT THE EGGMAN BOXES IN SONIC 3

[@hydeousProphecy]

You forgot the windows alpha link in the desc.

[@Scroteydada]

Personally I don't like the bash ability. It slows the pace down, which would be especially bad in Sonic. My fix would be a change to the 8-direction hyper Sonic jump - where you can only do it after hitting an enemy in the air. I think this version would be more freeing, and wouldn't require the game to screech to a halt.

[@ukyoize]

VULNERABLE

[@koffi_duck]

This is like that "Dear Sega" video but actually good, like, REALLY really good

[@MochiiMochaPop]

I like this idea for a fan game!! I wouldn’t say that it is necessarily an evolution to 2D sonic games, but as a standalone idea I can see this really appealing to people just looking for a good time and a new experience. I wish you and your team the best of luck with this!

[@basilplushie2534]

He goes 3D Now let's hope IGN doesn't say it has rough transition to 3d

[@nintony2994]

it will be "a smooth transition into 3D"

[@DarkDekicDuka]

I'm completely in LOVE with your concept of a new Sonic game. You fixed everything wrong with the series.

[@NathanSifuGaming]

Awesome video man, everything is so well planned and thought out. I'm really excited for the sonic freedom project, I'm kicking myself for not having more unity experience as I'm still new to it. If you've got a page for funding the project, I'd happily donate to it.

[@L._Vireo]

11:59 Hence giving purpose to collecting rings in Sonic 3, something you said earlier was lukewarm.

[@mckennalynn1916]

Great vid! I think it's both Sonic should be a linear A to b and also an exploration game. Whether the player does both or one it should be rewarding and fun. Just my two cents

[@Gnidel]

There are 2 games which I think you should have mentioned: - Sonic Boom on 3DS, 2 games. They add swinging, character switching and the first one is very focused on exploration. Fire & Ice on the other hand is really underrated. - Sonic Chrono Adventure. Fangame metroidvania built on top of classic formula. It's interesting to evaluate its semi-level based yet metroidvania structure.

[@connorbeith3232]

I heard people hated Shattered Crystal in particular because exploration was forced on you in order to progress through the game rather than it being optional, while Fire & Ice did fix that issue I thought the game was just ok.

[@yinshon]

Listing GRIS as an inspiration for a Sonic project is so cool.

[@winterv.4715]

Holy hell the presentation for this video is unreal. Great work!

[@ReavinBlue]

Look, I get it. you want a zoom out feature. But I LIKE seeing a big character sprite on screen. I hate it when everything gets super tiny cuz i'm so far away.

[@angelkatamari]

I prefer an aracadey, level to level style. I like to load the game up and practice the 3 minute sections that I want to play, over and over. I have hundereds of hours in S3K, SA, SA2, Sonic Advance, and Rush. I just completed Elden Ring, and it took me about 100 hours. I found everything. Beat every boss, got every achievement. I loved Elden Ring but I'm not going to boot it up again for a long time. Maybe not ever, except for PvP with friends. It was a terrible feeling to know that I had found everything once I finally had, because now all that is left for me is to make up arbitrary, self imposed challenges. "Start New game and beat Margit in 25 mins." or similar. There is no standard or interface for something like that. I want to show my friends "Hey, here is my time on Star Light Zone Act 2". Not "Yeah did we all beat the game? Cool. Next game when?" Arcadey time trial classic sonic is accessible and digestible. Mania would be a perfect game and template to work from if it did like Advance and CD, panning the camera forward, and also if it removed lives.

[@angelkatamari]

To add, I love the souls series. I have completed DS1, DS3, and Bloodborne. I liked them all a bit more than Elden Ring. They are just not as bloated.

[@antusFireNova]

Just found this channel, it's underrated!

[@ShoHidari]

Add that weird ring dash move from Sonic Adventure!

[@Aperson-62]

Great video and great analysis but I am somewhat disappointed at the lack of any attempt to look at games inspired directly by Sonic in terms of actual gameplay in the indie scene and what Sonic could learn from. In particular the upcoming Freedom Planet 2 which comes out later this year and has the whole zoomed out camera when you're going fast, a multi-directional air dash (which bounces off walls), a health system and using the main collectibles as currency. It doesn't completely drop the life system but repurposes it into something akin to an instant continue, when you die you have the option to spend a life or gems to instantly revive yourself at the cost of only having one health or go back to the last checkpoint. But then you can buy useful items in the hub worlds in between stages. Carrying on from the original there is zero touch damage so you can just run right past the enemies unless they are specifically attacking you. So in many ways I feel that game will be a true modernisation of that old Sonic formula with design decisions that Sonic could really learn from.

[@dissonanceparadiddle]

It's been so cool to see this project grow and develop. The original demo video was so exciting and I'm glad you see you're making it a reality. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Rayman legends is my favorite 2d Sonic game

[@soulbounddoll1826]

I think a time slow ability would be cool. They usually go well. And it could be completely optional, though that speed cap is horrible. No speed cap ever. People want to go fast, even if it kills them. I like the parkour idea. I really hate the lack of speed though. I think really fast parkour sections with a time slow feature could make it so that worse players could just do it that way, but older players could just do it without the slowdown. And time slow would still allow a player to feel fast while allowing them to retain control. A more linear design while still keeping the exploration would be good. One zone is bad. Multi zones would be better, and levels are good not bad so don't just remove those. Other than that, I'm not a game designer and haven't played anything other than mania which I still can't beat with anyone other than tails so I'm not really sure what else is needed and what's bad and good. Your game seems like fun, but it really doesn't need the speed cap. That's so bad it's actually painful. If I want to play a sonic game, then I want to play a game like Sonic Speed Simulator but 2d. Oh, and add more characters, you shouldn't only be able to play sonic. Add tails, add knuckles and make the game playable with multiple characters on screen at once. A team sonic mode would be fun where you have the whole squad running together. Of course, tails and sonic. Then the individuals. Right, gotta make it so you can switch between characters when multiple are on screen, I really missed such a feature in mania, and I hated being able to play as sonic and tails but not being able to play as tails and sonic. Otherwise I think that's all. So have a great day!

[@Damian-cilr2]

agreed 100% sonic is practically 1:1 with sonic from cd,still feels a little slow.but to be fair.sonic cd and all 3 original sonic games are a little slow too.but that being said you still should be able to go faster

[@Type3Diabeto]

This is a great video, the structure, summary and editing were top notch. I think you have some great ideas on how 2D Sonic needs to evolve and change. I've actually had a lot of similar ideas to you like reworking how health and abilities work. I still think Sonic should be a linear level platfomer (or at least have an end goal for each area) but you're ideas for Freedom look lovely. I played one of the first demos years ago and your concepts and ideas in this video look so interesting and fun, i'll be excited to try them. Again, great video with lots of knowledge and respect for the franchise!

[@chromiumex2384]

Im incredibly interested to play this and see this take on sonic! While I love my speed-runny quick and done sonic games, I also love my more exploratory but still fast sonic games like Robo Blast 2 and GT, so this seems like itll be fun! Love the analysis too!

[@yolandacelinetalia]

It goes back straight to the classic era.

[@ElliotGindiVO]

I think your ideas are good for a game or two or an alt style but I definitely don't think this is the direction mainline 2D Sonic should be taking. Good on you for actually putting together the game you want to see. Can't wait to try it! Edit: I tried it. It's really fun!

[@michaelavonpaumgartten8154]

PLAY SONIC OVERDRIVE! It’s 3D. Idk if you played it already though. It’s also the anime beginning of sonic cd

[@lbp4143]

Should've looked at colors ds it's like rush but without the tricking. It has much more platforming, much less bottomless pits, and fun sections with the wisps.

[@axl256gamesx7]

I have that game, is good

[@MeloneTM]

I've played it for about half an hour, and I have some suggestions to add. (Yes, I know it is unfinished.) You could maybe add a map, but more of a realistic sense of it not having a player locator, but the map layout so people would know where they are going. I also had a lot of trouble seeing the ring count with the font and color, so maybe you could outline the numbers of have more of a hand-drawn font? Other than that, this game looks AMAZING!! I hope this gets finished soon!

[@PointingouttheObvious]

i would have to respectivly dissagre. Alot of the things that you consider archaic are what makes a sonic game. You take out the liniear a to b gameplay of sonic you are streatching farther and farther from what a sonic game should be. A metriodvania sonic game sounds cool but then it wouldnt be a sonic game. I also feel in your attempt at freedom you have taken freedom away. The speed cap has to go i should be able to go as fast as i want in a 2d game that blistering speed outruning the camera all that is integral to the sonic experience. Moves should not cost me rings i should have access to all of sonics move set at anytime. There is a reason everyone uses max control mods for the classics its the most fun when you can use everything at you disposal and the only thing stoping you is your skill. Also i feel you have ignored the point of the water in a sonic game its suposed to be a punishment because in sonic 2 and 3 you can skip the water entirely. Also the bubble system isnt artifical dificulty there are more than enough bubbles to survive. If you die to drowning its always your fault. i dont know man it just feels you want sonic to no longer be sonic to me.

[@aydenrozzelle7691]

I knew there would be someone like you. NO!, sonic does not need horrible quirks to be a sonic game.

[@aydenrozzelle7691]

Just because you got used to the annoying water levels doesn't mean everyone will.

[@PointingouttheObvious]

@@aydenrozzelle7691 it’s not that I got used to them I realized that there are major shortcuts to skip the water if you are good enough and explore. You can go through sonic 2 and never touch the water. Water isn’t meant to be super fun it’s supposed to make you think is there a way around this. Yknow like the rest of the game.

[@PointingouttheObvious]

@@aydenrozzelle7691 nothing I said are horrible quirks but a lot of this stuff is integral to the sonic experience.

[@TechBlade9000]

Personally I disgree about the bubbles and only the bubbles simply because a Sonic 1 ROM hack reinterpeted beta Sonic 1 level chunks for Labryth as "Oh you dolphin jump for air at designated spots" and it's really fun (and full of flow)

[@coolporyg0n]

you have a lot of interesting ideas for this concept, i dig it for the most part. I wanna get a better idea further when the game's further in development and it has more polish. one thing i wanna add though is that dkc tropical freeze had an air depletion mechanic when you're underwater, so i don't really see why you couldn't implement that when other games have done it decently. also i'd like the biomes in the game to have more to them aesthetically other than just green and vegetation. s3&k, or just the original 2d sonic games for that matter, had a lot of varied and aesthetically different acts despite taking place all on an island. i'd really hope to see more biomes like strive to be distinct not just by level design, but with their appearance and art direction as well. one more thing i'd like to add is i feel like super sonic wouldn't be out of place for this game and might be fun to have around. maybe as a late game ability with certain requirements to achieve.

[@YouOpaOpa]

That "Parkour!" shout around 4:40 made me like and subscribe hahahahah

[@MrGuy__]

the directional air attack that you took straight from ori just looks way more cumbersome than the homing attack. your overall idea for sonic freedom seems like a) it would be more fitting for a 3d sonic game, as i feel exploration works better for sonic when the z-axis is involved (e.g. sonic utopia, green hill paradise act 2), or b) should be turned into an original project with new characters. imo, don't try to "fix" classic sonic, do your own thing; it would clearly be good (and who knows? maybe you could create a kickstarter for it and/or sell the game) a couple nitpicks with the vid btw: you say you're not gonna bore us with the history of the series, but then you drone on about the very basics of how classic sonic plays and go over every instance of 2d sonic in detail. like yeah dude i know what rings are and you say mania still deals with the claustrophobic camera, while not bringing up the introduction of widescreen? in my opinion it's a real game-changer for 2d sonic. i guess we'll just have to disagree on that

[@OfficiallyFiredworks]

30:43 sounds familar like super bell hill from super mario 3d world

[@DylanTheEye]

I think these design changes are fine for a metroidvania styled sonic game

[@wangtang32000]

nice video! and the idea sounds like a breath of fresh air. im looking forward to seeing what you will present in the future!

[@beatles123]

I'm torn, Jaz. I both love and absolutely hate some of the things you're doing with this project and it hurts me even more because I can see your passion. You want to move sonic forward and I respect that, but you're moving it forward to a place that just doesn't resonate with me. I have to be brutally honest. I think some of the things you're doing are too drastic, and I...really don't like the overall direction at this time. For instance, on the move set front - I don't care for the Bullet Dash at all. I don't like the way it looks. it just seems like a wonky system that makes no sense. How can i be playing a momentum based game and have sonic just turn into a ball out of nowhere in mid air with no transition? It'd be one thing if i could do it after achieving enough speed as long as i maintain it, but the way you're presenting it here and in previous videos just seems like it gives you an insta-jump for no reason. there's no animation in which he transitions into the ball, and he stops moving as if to defy the laws of physics. It's not even as if he's slowing down like a "Bullet time" scenario, where this is one swift motion he's doing while still moving. He just sort of floats there, which seems to break up the pace of running and launching yourself. There's no SPEED! It's not like Sonic Utopia, where i can have as much speed as i want as long as i can WEILD it responsibly. Rather, I must STOP in order to go, and that isn't fun for me at all. Moreover, I don't like the look of these early levels. It doesn't look like "Plating the intro" at all. It looks like a bland forest with none of the vibrancy of the classic games. Where is the color? Where's the sense of exotic and tropical wonder? No, this is just....clifftops and jungles. I know you're going to have other zones, but if I wanted to play levels with these aesthetics, I'd play something from Sonic Adventure 1 or 2. I don't want "Earth"! I want FANTASY! You need to give us more than just green and brown. Get creative! You have the power of imagination, so go nuts! Don't give us the same local's we're used to just because the Sonic CD intro did. I've also never been the biggest fan of the Toei sonic (Yes, I have watched your explanation video as to why to went this rout.) but more than that, I find some of the animations here to be...not visually pleasing. I don't like the water parkouring. what's he even doing, pretending he's a fish? It looks janky. His idle animation also needs work. Im reminded of the Caveman Spongebob meme. Cmon man, you know what pose we need! Hand on his hip looking impatient, THEN he does the arm fold. It's not that hard. As far as your take on the need for change as a whole, something about the way you present your arguments seems very disingenuous to me. I don't appreciate your apparent disdain for arcade cabinets, for example. The way you call them refrigerators reeks to me of arrogance and disrespect. You think you can re-invent the wheel (or in this case, the hedgehog) yet you as yet haven't proven a darn thing. Show some humility! You call your own moves that you design "Cool" when you test them as if you think you've discovered fire already and it's only a matter of time until we "Plebs" discover that your new ideas are the way of the future. Please, STOP doing that. It makes you look like you're less smart than I think you are. You have interesting concepts here even if some of them aren't my thing, but you seem to be getting way ahead of yourself. You could release this game and find that people don't prefer it over the old ways at all, and then what does that make some of these stances? You're obviously talented, but as the old saying goes, "Don't get high off your own supply" I really do admire what you're trying to do, but I say again: At present some of the ideas and motivations behind this project just don't sit well with me and this doesn't look like a Sonic game i'd want to play....yet. I need Aesthetics and mechanics this game isn't giving to me yet, and i know it's early on, but I'm not sold. I hope you can respect that and know that I'm only offering my own take, and im telling you this because I want this to be the kind of Sonic game that DOES push us forward - but also doesn't alienate. Right now? For me? It's doing the latter. I do have hope you can make it better by the time of release. I want to support this game, but presently i feel like Dorothy talking to the Wizard after the others have received what they wanted: "There's nothing in that bag for me..." You want Sonic to be Hallow Knight or Ori...I don't. I really, truly don't. I want Sonic to be Sonic. Speed, Platforming, Exploration and ATTITUDE, - Which you want to give us, but at the cost of throwing too much away to get it while not replacing it with the kind of speed, platforming and exploration i personally want...at least from where i sit right now, based on what i see and hear from you. I hope that will change, perhaps. Just my opinion. Best of luck.

[@rabbidmiimiga]

While I like Sonic Freedom as a concept, I feel like it would be better suited for an original game rather than Sonic. Lives and the timer are necessary parts of Sonic to me, they add an incentive to learning the level and completing it at blinding speeds. I've also noticed that many of the mechanics in Sonic Freedom grind the game down to a near halt, maybe if the bullet dash could activate without stopping movement it could reinforce the lighting fast reaction times that Sonic levels should be known for. The "health" system is an interesting concept but having it tied to currency is no bueno. This potentially causes issues with grinding rings later on.

[@matthew3791]

14:32 how are you gonna talk about dolphin-style underwater controls, AND PLAY DONKEY KONG COUNTRY TROPICAL FREEZE MUSIC and NOT talk about Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze's dolphin-style underwater controls

[@tripplejaz]

I had already written the script and recorded when I realized it controlled the same. I haven't played the game yet because it's still priced at $60 all these years later. Heard really good things though so I plan on it!

[@Solesteam]

I like Sonic 4 episode 2's version of tails flight, he can swim while holding Sonic. I guess all that flying and carrying Sonic made him stronger.

[@N8Squared]

10:37 Is that the Croc LotG Ost I hear?

[@tripplejaz]

Yes! There's a full track list breakdown in the description in order of appearance. Couldn't tell you the exact title, since the OST I have was ripped from the game so the tracks are numbered.

[@N8Squared]

@@tripplejaz well the first one is "FIght Night with Flibby", the second one at 30:20 is the "Croc 2 Menu Theme" and the last one at 42:00 is "Smash and See" (from Croc 1 again). Also I love the work you have been doing on this game for the past few years and I hope it eventually gets finished. (I wasn't subscribed for some reason so I re-subscribed)

[@Solesteam]

The timer in Sonic games however emphasizes the need for speed, without the timer that would imply Eggman is just taking a lovely nap at the end of the stage, which while would kinda be in character for him, isn't what he's doing most of the time. Just bump it up to 1 hour.

[@AuroraAce.]

at that point the timer applies no pressure and is worthless. you either have it short enough that you might actually hit the limit or not have it at all

[@Solesteam]

@@AuroraAce. I think it adds the best amount of time to encourage exploration, but discourage doing nothing.

[@AuroraAce.]

@@Solesteam an hour is way too long for any sonic level most of which the timer already doesn't change how you go through the stage as you finish most within 5 minutes I think the effect a 20 minute timer would have verses a 1 hour timer vs no timer at all is almost exactly the same the former two just doesn't have enough pressure. at those times the pursuit of fun will encourage you to play the game faster than the timer will

[@Solesteam]

@@AuroraAce. 1 2 and 3 only give 10 minutes.

[@AuroraAce.]

@@Solesteam and I think that's the right amount

[@kinggalactix]

I'm glad you implemented a better purpose of the rings.

[@trappercap]

You realize you’re just asking for an improved Sonic Boom 3DS entry, right?

[@trappercap]

Sonic has always been designed as a drug in playable form. This is especially with the archaic arcade elements you’re bashing; in fact, it’s completely based on all the systems, physics, and controls layering on top of one another in harmony. Every Sonic game has a distinct gamefeel based on what the level design and controls expect of the player. SegaSonic was an isometric platformer using a trackball and one button, so the player was constantly hammering away at the directionals with very intentional difficulty. Both the Riders games and the Boost formula entries have some form of automatic locomotion, and Sonic handles not unlike a car, complete with handling maneuvers. Storybook was an on-rails arcade spectacle from start to finish. All of these games are different takes on the same formula and bring something new to the table. If you can’t reasonably ask yourself what your pitch can add in terms of value to the player, then it ends up as a game along the lines of ShTH, Lost World, Boom, Forces, or the Game Gear entries. All the systems should complement one another rather than being separate pieces in an unfocused course. The problem with most Sonic fangames is that the devs can only ever make a stand on Sonic being... Sonic, and they try to incorporate speed somewhere into the equation without trying to make a polished game in the process. You’ve got to have shuttle loops, rings, a spin dash, SPEED. They’ve got the formula down, but none of the psychology and long lasting design decisions that went into SEGA’s fully funded projects. Sonic’s always been some weird middle ground between pinball sim, extreme skater, stylish action, and arcade platformer. You’re correct in deducing that Sonic should have options for dealing with the level design, but in your rush to try to clean off as much of the arcade remnants as possible, you’ve created a “modern” concept with little replay value or environment for optimization. Mania handles Time Attacks wonderfully with instant resets, and the ranking system introduced in SA2 onwards is an excellent reason to pause a level midway to try and aim for a better route. Platinum Games’s resume and output with their harsh ranking system handles similarly, and FromSoft’s Soulsborne games derive also a similar masochistic appeal from a very devoted fanbase. I’m simplifying a lot of things but I wouldn’t recommend starting off a gamedev portfolio trying to staple Sonic onto generic level design wholesale. I’d look at what to avoid when making a Sonic game first instead of what should go into one.

[@luckyworm_9453]

Personally I think all of the changes you added seem like too big of changes for classic games. I LOVE the 2D art you did great with that! It looks gorgeous! The 2D art and the camera are definitely welcome changes. Though I personally really enjoy the point a to b thing of the classic games and that being gone to an extent just feels weird to me. While I enjoy the idea of rings being useful I think a shop in check points seems like more than enough, changing just how rings work in general is too much of a change. I like this take on Sonic, I just think a few of the changes would need to get dialed back if Freedom was the true next step for classic. But that's just my opinion. Overall REALLY solid video dude, great job! Sonic Freedom looks great btw, I wish you and the team the best of luck!

[@butterknife4621]

This is the only fan game that I know of that finally fixes the rings.

[@kirbomatic1573]

I would love to play Sonic Freedom! an idea for how the cosmic jewels could work: you could assign them to either ring gauge or ring enchantment slots, but they don't have to be "spent". if you have a ring gauge upgrade and decide you want a ring enchantment slot instead, you could go to a checkpoint and re-assign the cosmic jewel. however, it's your game, and I'm sure that it'll be fun no matter what!

[@madmaster0015]

I think the timer is still important that help the player measure their performance in a level. Speed is important, so a speed-runner tool like a timer is also important.

[@PercyPanleo]

21:10 SEGA actually fixed this issue as well with Sonic CD (Though for whatever reason the Retro Engine ports only use the better camera when using CD's spindash)

[@aydenrozzelle7691]

The only thing I would change is how he goes over water. Just make him run over water And if the player stops, he sinks.

[@maxwellgerber3225]

this actually sounds pretty cool

[@mr.foogle3004]

Despite having some controversial gameplay, I think we can all agree and thank CD for having such a banger soundtrack, Inventing metal sonic, And inspiring the very first sonic movie, The Sonic OVA.

[@dabluepittoo-aqua4213]

You know, your ideas actually remind me of Metal Sonic Rebooted. In this ROM Hack players only lose around 30 rings when hit instead of all of them and rings can be used for abilities such as a fast boost or a double jump. It's pretty fun and shows how the concept can work in a more conventional Sonic space. Freedom is a bit more unconventional, but I believe it can provide a great and unique experience regardless.

[@Arlen56_]

2D sonic is back with a new game releasing soon called “Sonic Origins”

[@Laekith]

Original levels with original settings, keep all the playable characters from Mania and give them different ruotes (also add Amy because she's cool), give Sonic the light speed dash because it's sick, make the time attack worthwhile, maybe make it HD-2D with 3D backgrounds idk I think it would look neat, and make the bosses good

[@SantinoAintHere]

I really liked the video, it was very enjoyable, tho, it kinda bothered me when you talked about dark souls, in a sonic video, but whatever. I already played sonic freedom before, you made a great job on it! And i got some ideas while watching this video that you might or might not read lol, the focus-styled ability i think should let you walk slowly and do acrobatics (for free) and if you nail the timing and press the special button (in like a third of a second or something like that) before or after the focus ability you get a massive boost in speed, so it doesn't slow you down that much. I also think that it would be cool if these abilities get a little explanation saying that tails made a bracelet for sonic that consumes rings for certain abilities that only can be perfomed with the bacelet,

[@sneakyfox5]

So, you just want “Sonic The Hollow Knight”? Pretty much?

[@basilplushie2534]

Sounds pretty cool to me

[@ninten_draws]

i saw the blurry sprites on the thumbnail and i thought this was a video made by a beginner youtuber but no its actually really well edited

[@sqoosh636]

I love that this is the 2nd video I've seen talking about 2D/Classic Sonic and starting off with how good Mario is

[@ddanielk]

As much as i love the style and everything Sonic Freedom is doing i dont think it being a metroidvania is gonna help i. When i think of sonic i think of flying through stages and seeing how fast i can reach the goal. The last thing i want is to be standing around thinking of where to go next. its fun to explore stages in sonic games but i dont want to be forced to do so, i think you should be rewarded for going out of your way to look for these hidden goodies but not be forced to look for them Like what would be the point of getting to a checkpoint if all you get is to buy speedshoes you dont even need because youre not trying to get to the goal faster. and while were at it i think the ring gauge is a good idea BUT i think you should be able to recover your health while moving. i think i sound like im repeating myself but sonic is all about moving and reaching the goal, and i think it would kill the flow of gameplay if you had to completely stop to regain health Great video overall, really nice editing, kept me interested all the way till the end.

[@littletown4853]

One idea I have is where if there were like cave levels some parts of the level would have a slime that from below sonic could climb from with his hands and then he could swing from the slime onto the floor. Just a idea though.

[@switchnx]

Probably to the right.