Where Does an Amp Modeler Go in the Effects Order?!?

Should an amp modeler/simulator be placed at the start or the end of the effects chain on your pedalboard (or multi-effects unit)? Let's find out!
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Video Chapters
0:00 Amp Modeler Order Makes a Difference!
0:17 Traditional/Real Amp Order
1:14 "Traditional" Order: Clean Amp Demo
5:01 "Traditional" Order: Crunchy Amp Demo
6:52 "Traditional" Order: Distorted Amp Demo
9:00 "Studio" Amp Modeler Order: What is it?
10:03 "Studio" Order: Clean Amp Demo
12:53 "Studio" Order: Crunchy Amp Demo
14:07 "Studio" Order: Distorted Amp Demo
Chords of Orion - Ambient guitar is life
Bill Vencil - Guitars
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[@harleyhexxe9806]

That was a very useful and informative demo. Thank you for posting that one Bill!

[@ian1630]

Good demo! I’ve always used distorsion amp gain first and digital effects last… tone on the last example was wicked!

[@sethwaldenville6566]

Super helpful man, thank you ✌️

[@davelanciani-dimaensionx]

Great demonstration of the two methods. I use the 2nd "Studio Amp" option for the majority of my music - Dirt pedals into the Iridium, and THEN into time/modulation pedals. Mainly because I use the Iridium's VOX amp sim at a pretty heavily overdriven setting for a lot of tones.

[@stephenc3060]

Excellent. My ears think VOX dirt is the right dirt. Put a Tele, or semi-hollow with FilterTrons in front, and preach.

[@doctorscoot]

Hello, an excellent demonstration. Another reason to use the 'studio' model: my amp sim (Two Notes CAB M) is only mono. I put the stereo effects (delay/reverb) after it so I get a stereoified signal. Another signal path option which you didn't cover: effects in the send/return loop of an amp. That way you get the 'smoothing' effect of the speaker/mic cabinet simulation without being subject to the distortion introduced by the high-gain amp pre-amp model. However I don't know of any amp sims that have a send/return loop like that (probably you can do it on on a HX stomp or whatever but I don't have one). HOWEVER, if you got a "preamp" style pedal, followed by the delay/reverb, in front of the amp sim, and go into your amp sim and disable the preamp stage (the CAB M can do this), you can get a combination of both worlds. The CAB-M also has power stage emulation, so in this case you have to be careful you're not trying to emulate a cranked Fender Champ's power section distortion!

[@stephenc3060]

The Nu-X Amp Academy has a stereo TRS jack for effects send/return. And as if that wasn't already cool enough, you can change the loop's position in the internal signal chain. It's still pretty new, I think released since you commented. I don't understand why more multi effects boxes don't do this.

[@andresAMGcr]

Sir Davos is that you ? lol the onion knight! Great video thx a lot cheers.

[@twenty3electronics]

Spring reverb, analog delay, modulation usually should go in front of amp sim. Hall reverb and digital delay can go after. Some effects pedals can sound really odd when placed after the simulation, maybe because they are designed and voiced using a guitar speaker

[@mohitrahaman]

My intuition and practice is almost always to go with the "studio" method. Further it allows one to make bare minimum Wet/Dry/Wet options, as the amp sim is not always fed with the wet effect before it.

[@ukaszukasz7059]

In my setup i use after Iridium: chorus and then stereo delay and stereo reverb

[@timbaugh1944]

Good demo Bill - the studio option with the delay after the amp sounded better to my ears for ambient. How about adding reverb after the delay in 'studio' mode? I guess that should work well.

[@chordsoforion]

Yep - adding reverb or any other effects in the "Studio" mode would retain the fidelity of the effect.

[@nathananderson8204]

Thank you...

[@wakethegiant9705]

Thanks.

[@bradybritto]

Nice 👍

[@frankslade33]

Finally. IVe been guessing :)

[@gxrcia1336]

in the studio mode, can i plug a adapter to connect headphones on the delay pedal and it will sound on the headphones?

[@slowdawnphmusic]

Hi sir. I used tech 21 blonde as amp sim. When I put it after drives and before my time bases fx it sounds fine. As I change my chain and placed the blonde last on chain I noticed it has volume drop as I engaged the reverb. Do you have ang idea on this issue? Thanks in advance

[@uptownphotography]

Very interesting video and well explained. Question please: We have been trying to record with a few modeler pedals (Line 6 PodGo and also the Valeton GP-200...Note: recording only using one unit at a time for clarity, not together) and getting a really bad sound into an audio mixer whether we have the amp and cab sims on or off. We tried both the line inputs and the XLR Balanced inputs on the mixer, but the sound is not good, especially for overdrive and distortion sounds. Both of these units, on many videos, sound really good, so we're trying to figure out what the issue can be. I was going to try recording directly into the interface, bypassing the Allen Heath mixer, but being new to modeler pedals, I thought maybe you could offer some advice. Thanks...and again nice detailed video. Phil NYC Area

[@kaskas55]

For modellers, You have to make your own presets in my opinion.

[@alistairwood9853]

Great video, I was holding off getting an amp modeller as I assumed everything would have to sit in front of the amp. I guess this is similar to having an FX loop on an amp? Would you ever put the volume pedal between the gain pedals and the amp modeller?

[@chordsoforion]

Yes - the "Studio" mode is a little like having an effects loop in an amp. And as far as the volume pedal placement goes, one of the videos in the playlist I mentioned at the end of this video demonstrates the difference of placing the volume pedal before or after distortion. Check it out!

[@DavidMorisset]

My ACS1 is last in my chain, I use it for silent playing and need the headphones line out. I get my drive from my Pedals so I run the Sim at the edge of breakup, like an amp with no effects loop.

[@markchristianson31]

Have you had a chance to check out the NDSP Quad Cortex? I'm finding it to be a real ambient powerhouse

[@chordsoforion]

nope. not yet!

[@dykeneuk]

The Boss IR200 has an FX loop. Much more like using a real amp with Loop. I really like using the headphone output on the pedal.

[@chordsoforion]

That's interesting. Do you know if the IR200 FX loop is in between the amp sim's preamp and power amp sections? That would definitely then simulate a real amp FX loop.

[@gregs6424]

Great demo, Uncle Bill. Was wondering, if the amp modeler is set as clean as possible (absolutely no crunch), does the placement of the amp sim still affect the sound? Does the "frequency constrain" still come into play, in other words? Big difference when the gain is turned up, but wondering if setting the amp sim completely clean there would be any difference at all. Thanks!

[@chordsoforion]

It depends on the settings of the amp model and the cab sim, but yes, the signal will be frequency constrained by whatever the model/sim allow. That being said, the difference may not be all that noticeable with a clean chime amp tone.

[@harrisfrankou2368]

Have you set up expression for gain swells?

[@chordsoforion]

I do occasionally use an expression pedal with the Riverside or the Iridium, but in general I prefer to use a dedicated volume pedal.

[@robertclarkguitar]

I am only using me80 now Into interface where I use plugin Valhalla.

[@robertclarkguitar]

I need to mess with helix native more.

[@carlosortizjr5508]

Where should i put an acoustic sim pedal in the "studio" setup?

[@chordsoforion]

I would put it at the beginning of the chain so that all other pedals effect the simulated acoustic tone.

[@mattf7397]

I'm still new to using an Iridium but I wish it had an FX loop so you could still use its headphone jack. Is there an easy solution to this? Do I just need to add another headphone amp to the end of my chain?

[@chordsoforion]

If you run the Iridium clean, as in the "traditional" setup in the video, you could use the headphone jack as all effects would be in front of the Iridium. Otherwise, you will need something with a jack at the end of the signal chain.

[@mattf7397]

@@chordsoforion Thanks Bill, that's what I thought. I love your channel! Keep up the awesome work

[@cfibanez]

I plug my headphones to the audio interface, in my case a ULmk5 from MOTU.

[@arvindpuryag8515]

Hello which cabinet and speaker is this?

[@chordsoforion]

The Iridium is set to the Vox amp sim with speaker #2. I don't remember which cab/speaker this model is, but you can look it up in the online Iridium manual.

[@paolo-1283]

What happens if the volume or wah is placed at the start of the chain?

[@chordsoforion]

I've got a video that discusses volume pedal ordering: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oKTYfKB3f9Rmh8U

[@MassacreVegan]

Would you put a buffer before the amp modeler or after?

[@chordsoforion]

Depending on the amp modeler, you don't need a buffer pedal, as buffering is built into the circuit. For example, the Strymon Iridium has buffered outputs.

[@mateussader9644]

2:04 11:38

[@peteharland8328]

Should have tuned up first...

[@ziozix.mp3]

I hate face of this man, but he spraks interesting

[@stephenc3060]

Wow. I wouldn't be surprised if someone making a comment like that was gifted with a face made for radio.

[@joeromito299]

Does my amp modeler have to be placed on the far left? Then all effects to the right of it. I have volume wah to the far right and last in the chain where my guitar goes inputs into it. Is this the best way?