Where People Spend the Least On Housing + Transportation

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Which US cities offer the best value when it comes to housing and transportation spending as a proportion of your income? This is a companion piece to last week's video on location efficiency!
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Previous CityNerd Videos Referenced:
- Cities That Will Bankrupt You (Location Efficiency Part 1):
- CityVisit Portland: • Portland Is a Bit of a...
- CityVisit Houston: • You're Wrong About Hou...
- CityVisit Minneapolis: • What the Twin Cities D...
- CityVisit Miami: • Miami: Ultra-Livable P...
- Affordability playlist: • Affordable Urbanism
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Resources:
- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...
- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropo...
- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...
- newsroom.aaa.com/2023/08/annu...
- data.census.gov/table?q=Incom...)
- data.census.gov/table?q=s0801
- fortune.com/2023/10/23/apartm...
- www.cbsnews.com/news/renting-...
- www.economist.com/united-stat...
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[@CityNerd]

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[@juliamurdza586]

Love this partnership!!

[@PokerStylez]

Can you make a similar video for home ownership instead of renting? I would be curious if the top 10 cities change significantly.

[@alphamikeomega5728]

Are homeless and jobless residents considered in this analysis? If a city has a large enough number of homeless/jobless people, it will (or at least should) bring down the median income.

[@Jsoberon]

As a Miami native, that tiny little comment about San Jose having basically the same median rental as Miami while having double the median income destroyed me.

[@TohaBgood2]

Moved from Central Florida to the Bay and can attest that this is the case. Outside of a few wildly expensive areas like SF and Atherton, the Bay is not that much more expensive than the better parts of Florida. Meanwhile the incomes are almost double. It's kind of wild. I now full-on just don't understand how I survived in Florida. I am genuinely confused how the math worked out for me there. I guess it simply wasn't unusual to pay double what other places pay for housing and transportation.

[@Jsoberon]

I feel so fucked over. I've been wanting to move out for a while, but it has been slow to save up money since I spend so much on the necessary cost of living expenses. I just kinda thought that was true everywhere...

[@TohaBgood2]

@@Jsoberon I mean, the Bay is very expensive and if you're in the wrong line of business then you're kind of screwed here as well. But you just don't move here if you don't have a good job lined up. Most people move here either because they're already rich and want to be close to the action or because they have a high-paying job waiting for them. See if there's an area that specializes in whatever it is that you do. If you're in one of he lucky professions then you can make the switch to a seemingly nonsensically expensive area. As long as your skill is in demand there, you'll be fine. (I know how this sounds - "just be rich or luck out on your job." But there are many areas in the country that are surprisingly specialized. It's not as silly as it sounds.)

[@Jsoberon]

As a highly trained A/V Technician with extensive experience working in a higher education environment, I can move just about anywhere there is a university. I hadn't really considered the Bay, it always seemed out of reach.

[@CityNerd]

It's a wild stat. If I could make the same money I'd probably live in Miami though (at least until sea level covers Brickell)

[@sighrussthevirus]

I moved to Tucson 2 years ago and was supprised, anicdotally, how dangerous the driving was here. I used to live in Buffalo so I did a little research. Accordingly to my research, in 2021 in Buffalo there were 25 car related deaths. And in 2021 in Tucson there were 80 car related deaths. Could you do an episode on the most dangerous cities in connection to car related deaths?

[@phoebeallen284]

As a lifelong Tucson resident, the car situation is awful, the transit only ok, the walkability spotty, and the biking situation surprisingly good, but risky, and yet I'm still proud of my hometown

[@LeZylox]

That's so morbid, but ig it's needed

[@bomaracev]

Driving is pretty dangerous in the Hartford-Springfield metro area as well!

[@nathana.2913]

To be fair, Tucson drivers are remarkably bad. I’ve never seen so many cars flip at intersections until I was in Tucson.

[@rossplotkin3506]

Only two things in life are certain in such a video: death and sarcasm.

[@Byrondavis89]

We need to normalize a simple lifestyle and stop normalizing debt. Huge SUVs, huge houses and private universities are simply not necessary. I live within my budget and I sleep better at night knowing that if I lose my job tomorrow, ' be fine. I didn't buy the biggest house. I bought the one I could comfortably repay

[@Rhgeyer278]

Yeah can being frugal be sexy please? recently mentioned that I'm frugal to a young woman and she gave me the weirdest look... Being financially responsible is looked down on

[@PennyBurdick318]

I wish I could find it, but I remember reading a study once that claimed financially insolvent men had 1.5-2x more sexual partners than their financially solvent counterparts.

[@Seanmirrer]

I think people should also seriously look into investing of some kind. Something that brings money back to your pocket, real estate, stocks, whatever can bring back value to their bank account rather than draining it. Obviously investing has its risks but so does just having money in depreciating assets or straight up liabilities.

[@Bradleyschaeffer376]

Big house suv. Bruh you got people driving Honda civics, living in a 1 bedroom apartment and not a luxury one at that living paycheck to paycheck. The median rent is 2000. A lot of financial professionals especially the one I work with Samuel Peter Descovich agree that one should not spend more than 30% of their gross income on rent. That means you need to make a minimum of about $80,000. Interesting considering the median income is $54,000.

[@GaryWinstonBrown]

Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge. Your coach was simple to discover online. I did my research on him before I wrote to him. He appears knowledgeable based on his online resume.

[@rotskep]

It'd be cool to see these same videos, but using the lower quartile instead of the median for the household income, rent, and car ownership. I'd like to see which cities are the best/worst to struggle in.

[@robertcartwright4374]

Yes!

[@lovableasshole]

Yeah that's my main problem with this video concept. I understand why (like for brevity etc) but omg does it lack nuance.

[@Delvin4519]

Yes please. The 33rd or 25th percentile is a good one to look at. Also the 10th percentile would also be interesting as well.

[@kellitrevino650]

Yes!

[@tommarney1561]

I wish an artist would design a logo for StruggleTrans, the agency that runs the StruggleBus system.

[@davidlineberger644]

As a Bay Area tech worker (I hear your snark already), I've found that many tech companies will subsidize your transportation costs if you take public transit, making your transportation costs basically 0. I haven't driven to work since moving out here 9 years ago and only use public transit. So yes, it is the rich getting richer. As another KZbinr once said, at the end of the day, you'll have more dollars in your bank account living in a place like San Francisco than in another city. This video confirms that.

[@danielcarroll3358]

As of last week, the MTC is letting companies provide employees with a transit pass good on *everything* in the nine county Bay Area, all 27 agencies. It is stored on your Clipper Card. Whoopee!

[@justinbeynon7980]

And just rent a car for a long weekend if you want to get out of town.

[@patlynch6517]

Good luck to you. I lived in northOakland years ago, and the Bay area was great (BART & MUNI)!! I left for Seattle- and have not owned a car. When the light rail Finally gets to Bellevue/ Redmond, it’s gonna be as crowed af!!

[@julietardos5044]

I wish my husband's last company did that. The office was right next to a Caltrain station, but he drove because it was cheaper. If the company had given everyone train passes, he would have taken the train.

[@BaskingInObscurity]

I didn't own a car most of the years I lived in Berkeley, nor almost half of the time I've lived here in Santa Cruz County (>20 years). Transit in the urban area is great-room for improvement, but among the best you can find in the US. Even if you do pay for transit, the monthly passes pay for all the forms of transit for a large area. When I attended school and worked in SF, I bought both Muni's and AC Transit's monthly passes, which cost the same as only two or three tanks of gas, without the car payments, upkeep, insurance, and parking fees (which can also mean substantially additional rent just to park or store the car). In fact, I did the math and found that on top of buying both monthly passes, I could RENT a car for the three-day weekend specials every two weeks and still have more money leftover than owning a car. And we didn't even come close to renting a car that frequently.

[@SocialSalt]

As someone that lives in SF I do have to say that the findings here ring true. It is totally the case that you need to be making around the median for this city to work for you (which is something that absolutely needs to be fixed), but IF you can secure that income, then there is a lot to love. I'm living car free for the first time in my life and I'm loving every minute of it. Between that major pay raise I got when moving here and the reduced transit costs, living in SF is a major win for me. Unfortunately this is not the case for everyone in SF and obviously housing issues need to change in the city, but it's not the hellscape that the media says it is.

[@lindsiria]

As someone from Seattle, I agree. However, there is one key component I think @CityNerd is missing that might change up this list, and that is state income taxes. Your household income can change quite drastically depending on your state's income taxes. That might make a huge difference in this list. Also, this actually makes Seattle's ranking even stronger as we don't have an income tax in Washington.

[@neckenwiler]

SF just needs to ~double its housing supply

[@kallmeej9106]

​@@lindsiriaWe don't have an income tax, we have a sales tax which is especially worse for poor people

[@stevebolandca]

Same. I liked this video for the sole reason that it confirmed my bias that Bay Area salaries and non-car options actually (almost) make up for the ridiculous housing costs. Although I do think there was one quirk: including multiple cities in the same region sort of neglects the fact that if it's all one big job market, and your salary is going to be the same regardless, then purely financially speaking you should probably just live wherever housing costs are cheapest, assuming the impact on your transport costs isn't too great. Which is a wordy way of saying that it makes way more sense for me, as someone who works in San Francisco (in transportation planning, as it happens), to live in Oakland, where my housing costs are way, way lower, even if my transpo costs are a bit higher (hello, BART).

[@aygwm]

I’ve enjoyed San Francisco every time I’ve visited this year. Just stay away from the bad areas and it’s an amazing place to be.

[@davidtardio9804]

Happy to see Portland, Oregon on this list. I was there in October and will confirm that it is not a “smoking crater.” In fact some stores/shops are reopening downtown which is great to see.

[@lovableasshole]

Downtown struggles mostly due to all the remote work leaving all of the office buildings empty so there's less reliable daily foot traffic to support a lot of the retail and food/bev spots. Across the river on the east side business continues to be booming. On your next visit I highly recommend exploring the east side neighborhoods. You won't be disappointed!

[@Trenz0]

Crime has definitely risen, but it is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. As a socal transplant, in terms of safety/crime, I'd much rather live in greater Portland than greater LA

[@offthewoodwork3626]

I was there in August, and it's definitely not as bad as many media outlets make it out to be. There's a lot of homelessness and it's very difficult to avoid the smell of urine, but I never felt unsafe and I was able to thoroughly enjoy my time there just as much as in previous trips there. I actually never left downtown during this visit.

[@obrothernotagain4668]

Eh, get outside of downtown and you'll find one of the best cities to live in the country. Your view of homelessness and urine are very colored by the places in the city you chose to visit (and that the media continues to talk about)@@offthewoodwork3626

[@CityNerd]

It's been kind of a slow recovery for downtown, but lots of other neighborhoods are as great as ever.

[@cummi165]

I'm now in DTLA, but I spent 5 years in Midtown, Atlanta. You're right that it takes a second, third, fourth, etc. look. It is much more urban than folks give it credit for. The metro area sprawls, but projects like the Beltline are completely transforming the urban core. It was so cool to be a part of and we lived car-free.

[@donaldendsley6199]

This series could easily be called why do you feel poor (or rich)? Reminds me of one of my Parent's friends. He did the same job as my mom (stable white collar on the lower end of the of "white collar pay"). He drove junky old cars and lived in a trailer. When he died in his 40's he was worth over $300K, had he lived to my parents age he would have had a net worth in the millions (or close to it). Granted he never had kids, but he also never married.

[@vokasimid5330]

Well said

[@stevengordon3271]

Did you know that the greatest impact individuals can have in fighting climate change is to have one fewer child?

[@derekskelton4187]

Tbf it also doesn't seem like he was really using the money. Which if he was happy I see no reason to judge. If he did it to accumulate wealth then I'm not sure he achieved much

[@kpsting]

@@stevengordon3271I don't think it's that simple since, on average, the poorest countries have the highest fertility rates but are not considered the biggest CO2 emitters (or whatever other indicator of affecting climate you wanna use)

[@moonlight-hm4bh]

​@stevengordon3271 and that's exactly why talking about climate change on the individual level is dumb and ineffective

[@nickwoods7746]

I think to me the interesting data point wouldn't be the median household but maybe the twentieth percentile. Are lower-income people being served well by their city or are they being pushed out?

[@kellitrevino650]

This lower-middle class lady is def being pushed out of the DFW area. I bet I am in good company.

[@TheFriendlyGod]

fantastic suggestion, and would be interesting to compare to, say, 75th percentile

[@CityNerd]

Did a video recently on cities where minimum wage workers can afford the most housing, so check that out if you haven't. A couple of people have chimed in with the 20th-25th percentile idea, and I do like that...but I don't wanna come back to this topic TOO soon.

[@katiem.3109]

@@CityNerd If you do this video, I think you should take into account tax rates for the poor. For instance, a person in the poorest 20% will pay nearly 14% of their income in taxes if they live in Washington, but only 6% if they live in Minnesota (this all comes from the ITEP Who Pays? report).

[@fredabear]

I lived in Tacoma straight out of college and the cost of living was a huge factor. We are now considering moving close to Minneapolis to be closer to family and again the cost of living is a big factor. I grew up just south of San Jose and was definitely surprised to see it on the list. Not being in the tech industry is a huge factor for this place being unaffordable to me.

[@le_th_]

Make sure you factor in the cost of heating and air conditioning, and the cost of snow removal i.e. a condo I was looking at had annual snow removal fees of $14K in Wisconsin, and Minnesota gets a lot more snow than Milwaukee.

[@aimxdy8680]

Minneapolis has very high salaries, Salaries in the Minneapolis Metropolitan area are 25% higher than the national average meanwhile cost of living is only like 5-10% above the national average.

[@onesob13]

Damn are you me? Graduated PLU in 2016, moved to Minneapolis in 2018 to be close to partner's family

[@onesob13]

​@@le_th_if you rent in Minneapolis, generally heat is included in rent. Like 80-90% of rental housing

[@hcdero]

Minneapolis has good wages for educated workers and the cost of living is much lower than the coasts/chicago but there is still big city things like excellent parks and restaurants. Heating and A/C can get kinda high depending on the size of your house/apartment and your temperature preference, but snow removal will often be taken taken care of by a landlord or you will have covered parking.

[@northerntao]

Rent in Kitsap, but work in Seattle. Job includes an Orca card, which covers fast ferry. As a San Jose native, and long time resident of Anchorage, the cost of living here is very agreeable, and I’m currently car free, barring the occasional rental.

[@patriciaeamon1388]

I commuted from Indianola to Shoreline for two years--it was an awesome commute, as long as it wasn't Friday, a weekend, or a holiday. Fast ferry wasn't an option then. Live in the woods, work in the city, boat to work. I think the median rent in Seattle just has to be above 2,000--I couldn't find a place I could afford after 2013!

[@michalandrejmolnar3715]

Do you have e-carsharing? That would lower transportation costs like public housing lowers housing costs

[@doujinflip]

I managed to do car-supreme Dubai of all places on its relatively tiny metro with occasional rentals and taxis 🏜🚇

[@northerntao]

@@patriciaeamon1388 I live in Bremerton, close to downtown, and work near Pioneer Square, so transportation to work is easy. The wait for the ferry is the most annoying part. This place has changed immensely- I’ve only been here a year, but spent time in Kitsap over the years

[@northerntao]

@@michalandrejmolnar3715 The closest thing I’m aware of is Turo. The buses and occasional Instacart order from Costco fit my needs. I rented a car for Thanksgiving, but it had been 6 months since I last rented.

[@qbertrules4394]

The math in these videos might be a little tough to comprehend at first but if you just do the math it comes to you. Increasing your income is so much more valuable to an individual vs trying to be as frugal as possible. A person who makes $5k/month, and spends $2k/month on housing + transport saves less than someone who makes $10k/month (2x income) and spends $6k/month on housing/transport (3x expenses) even though from a percentage standpoint, you are now spending 60% of income instead of 40%, you still are saving $4k instead of $3k.

[@RichardGreen422]

Seattle has done a far better job than other coastal cities at building lots of apartments. It shows up here!

[@krakken-]

Very true. And many of the apartments they have built are either right by mass transit or directly in the job producing areas (e.g. downtown or South Lake Union). Combined with very high pay, it really makes Seattle a fabulous place for young adults.

[@offthewoodwork3626]

It definitely has. I just moved up from Tacoma and got rid of my car. The rent I'm paying near Seattle Center is pretty comparable to what I'd have to pay in Tacoma for an apartment of a similar size in a neighborhood with decent walkability.

[@genektegezoink]

​@@krakken-and of course the U district

[@rosalieo5045]

Too bad about the people in Seattle though

[@iEatPandaz]

It’s gotten better than it was a few years ago, and I’m sure it works great for single people and DINKS, but the Seattle area is still pretty hostile towards those with families. Hopefully the light rail expansions make commuting from the suburbs less painful.

[@EmmaHacker-kj9un]

I’m a DC metro area native and have found it hard to leave. Great job market, affordable suburbs (when I bought my condo), decent (if poorly managed) public transit, and all the cultural opportunities living in a city brings.

[@jennifertarin4707]

I love DC and am trying to move back from the LA area which I hate.

[@minnybiker4505]

Happy to live in a top 10 region (Twin Cities). It's quite underrated here due to our December through February weather. Makes sense, honestly. There are times I wish I lived somewhere I could ride my motorcycle all year... But, outside of that criteria, the rest is a no-brainer to stay.

[@rhmendelson]

I live in Colorado and honestly the weather here is so nice most of the time that when you have to do something inside you feel like you’re missing out on a great day! ☀️ ⛰️ So put those crummy weather days to good use to get things done.

[@minnybiker4505]

@@rhmendelson I lived in Denver for 2 years. LOVED the weather there! Best in the country , in my opinion. But I ended up moving back to MN for family and friends (and less traffic).

[@DylanLandro]

Love my Minnesota!

[@florentinadimartino4569]

I moved from San Antonio (who one might remember from the worst list lol) to Minneapolis in July this year and am absolutely loving it so far, just hoping January and February don't kick my butt too hard. 😅 I've been enjoying December so far, though I'm aware this particular winter has been unseasonably warm.

[@minnybiker4505]

@@florentinadimartino4569 awesome, welcome! Yeah it's been pretty warm (almost 50 tomorrow!)... Hopefully we get some snow before Christmas!

[@AmberSZ]

Insane that even ranked by percentage so many high median-income cities ended up on top... given people save in dollars and not percentages, the inequality in wealth accumulation is depressing

[@charlienyc1]

Depressing and yet trending.

[@whimsicalhamster88]

Haha! I live just outside Seattle. It’s a place where if you lucked out with employment and buying a house pre-pandemic or before the boom, you’re good. We also have a spectacularly high amount of unhoused people because if you can only make minimum wage and/or have bad credit, you will not be able to afford any housing. Add to that that the weather mostly won’t kill you and you have the right combination to make it great for the rich and unbelievably desperate for the poor.

[@knutthompson7879]

When you bought in makes a huge difference. If you bought a place in Seattle during that post financial crisis-pre pandemic window, you actually got a pretty decent deal (in retrospect). Trying to buy now? Good luck with that.

[@emma70707]

MFTEs help immensely if you're working low-income. I'm really grateful for that program. It'd be tough to live here otherwise.

[@krakken-]

If you own a home in Seattle, I agree. But the rents are pretty reasonable, especially considering how high the incomes are (including high minimum wages), so renting makes a lot of sense for many here.

[@marcusaurelius113]

Hands down this is the most useful/informative video you've ever made. Kudos! As a resident of the DC area, this completely changed my mindset about how "expensive" it really is to live here. What I found most interesting was that many of the places you've touted in other recent videos: Pittsburgh, Cleveland, St. Louis, etc. were nowhere to be found. Unless someone is retired or independently wealthy, the costs for housing + transportation (a critical combination) are only a value metric relative to income. I also thought your point at the end about different values systems was very important. One size fits all doesn't work for everyone. I do think this would be an interesting metric looking after cost of purchasing housing, which would be much more skewed towards single-family and townhomes. Maybe throw in child care costs...

[@nimrod06]

Income varies drastically among individuals. Median income is high because the high income individuals live there, not the other way round: living there does not make your income drastically higher. In some individual cases, you will have a hard time finding a job that suits you in high income cities. All in all, I think CPI(price index) is a much better measure to normalize the data, because it is much more universal to all kinds of people.

[@upsidedownbagofflour697]

Cleveland actually showed up as #3 on his previous list for least affordable housing + transportation. Very different picture painted by these 2 lists from his previous videos

[@marcusaurelius113]

@@upsidedownbagofflour697 Yep. But it's funny how "affordable" becomes unaffordable when you can't earn a decent living.

[@marcusaurelius113]

@@nimrod06Median income is not high because of high income individuals any more than it's low because of low income individuals. That's a straw man. A few years back I considered relocating. My income for the exact same work would have dropped by 30-40% in several cities. The idea that incomes are not driven by cost of living and worker supply in a metro is absurd. Tech jobs pay more in the Bay Area than in Pittsburgh. Basic supply and demand. That's why companies got so angry that their workers were getting paid a high cost metro salary and living in lower cost of living areas during COVID.

[@le_th_]

Really??? It could not be more INaccurate on Oakland, San Jose, and San Francisco.

[@elkhandler]

I usually agree with your methodology, but the only thing these stats really tell you is "who" the median resident actually is. take NYC vs SF, median incomes 75k vs 130k... does SF have twice the "economic opportunity?" or are there just 5x as many software engineers in the dataset because it's been more successfully gentrified?

[@elkhandler]

I think "transportation cost as a fraction of HOUSING cost" might have been more interesting!

[@knutthompson7879]

I agree the methodology doesn't totally ring true. The final ranking end up being too heavily influenced by the "median income".

[@rotskep]

I was thinking that measuring this by the lower quartile instead of the median for rent, hh income, and car ownership would've made for a better look at the livability of all these cities.

[@ElFlippage]

@@rotskep I still think this wouldn't work very well because the people you might be trying to capture with "lower quartile" probably don't even live in the city they work in. Like in the bay area the poorest people live far out and commute a very long ways to get to work. The compositional effect compounds itself this way. I think it's true that "median income" has way too high of an effect here.

[@markweaver1012]

Yes, it might make sense to pick a 'basket' of ordinary defined job types (school teacher, plumber, etc) and use the average salaries of those as a proxy. That would avoid the problem of a region being 'top-heavy' with tech workers.

[@johntousseau9380]

Like all good scientists, you document your methodology so we can see the sources and how the conclusions are drawn from the metrics. I love that you do this.

[@TohaBgood2]

Look dude, this channel is not scientific. Like, at all. Let's not project things onto this creator. This is back of the napkin math. As soon as you try to bring any rigor to these videos the whole conversation falls apart. He's doing a ton of approximation. He still ends up in the general ballpark of the right answer, but this is not supposed to be rigorous.

[@johntousseau9380]

@@TohaBgood2 I didn't say it was "rigorous" or whatever. I said he explains the methodology so we understand how he gets the numbers he's putting out. And that is a thing I like.

[@genektegezoink]

Data and methodologies need to be transparent. This 2009 meta-analysis found that one third of scientists have admitted to questionable research practices: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2685008/ It is "easy ... for a scientist to publish fabricated data in the most prestigious journals."

[@matthewmurray7428]

Whoa, didn't expect Denver on this list. Glad we made it. FYI, I live in uptown and I'm car free. Public Transportation/biking isn't perfect but we are headed in the right direction.

[@emmaa138]

Excited for the Colfax BRT, wish it would come sooner than 2027

[@diamondsfinest9386]

One thing I wish CityNerd would explore is how long it's been in North America since there's been ANY kind of massive transportation project of any kind, and what it can do for the quality of life for it's citizens. Not everywhere needs to be Manhattan levels dense.

[@ninabeena83]

I love this channel so much. The way I just guffawed at “don’t know what median is, allow me to suggest this website” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Patrick96ification]

As a recently minted Seattlite who actually WANTED to be here... very happy to see my new home winning the CityBowl. I came to Seattle from Tampa and while my housing + transportation costs went down and my pay went up, definitely feeling a lot better fiscally. I'm a techbro (sorry) so I will say that the obvious caveat is that mileage may very based upon how well you're compensated. I would definitely say that people should find a good job and come here, not the inverse.

[@MSCCA]

You came at the worst time. Seattle just elected a bunch of Nimbys for city council.

[@thomasnguyen7104]

Ok

[@alexconrad2904]

Time for the upper midwest to come back from last weeks loss of Detroit. Chicago and Minneapolis will bring it back into the positives! Edit: Guess I was wrong about one of those

[@dougclendening5896]

I have hope for Detroit. It's the cheapest of the three but needs better jobs to get it on this list. Great time to invest if you have 5-10 years to wait.

[@Skip6235]

@@dougclendening5896Detroit would need a massive overhaul of its entire urban fabric. There is practically nowhere in the entire metro region where a car isn’t 100% necessary

[@dougclendening5896]

That's fair and I know this channel is about transportation, but I'm more concerned about the ability to LIVE in detroit first. Median income by average housing price. They are building 20 miles of trails for running and bikes throughout the city and by the river at least.

[@tomrenjie]

Oakland, I can attest, to as a pretty decent in affordability in part because much of the Bay Area still associates it with crime and blight (and maybe just a slight subconscious fear of Black and Brown people). All the local news blare out every petty theft occurrence with regularity and, downtown has been moribund following pandemic, work from home and the tech bubble correction. But its par for course in life of cities in that its old enough to see parts that are seeing growth and others seeing decay.

[@calvinhosworld]

Wooohooo ATL gets a mention finally!!!! ..... Week 13 asking for feature episode on ATL. Cmon we have all the bad and a few of the good. We need more love/hate from this channel. You said it yourself! What better way to make up for it than a feature episode.

[@oopsididamaterialism8113]

Would love to see childcare as a factor. I used to live in a suburb of Atlanta with a household income of about 95k. We were doing fine until the second kid came along and childcare got the best of us. $2,500/month for two kids, three days a week.

[@starr.kiillerr]

in love with the fact you show so much data paired with your nonchalant humor, a charmer for sure !! thank you for the effort you put forward, it really shows your dedication !!

[@DeathMachina123]

Atlanta #5! Yes! So many of my friends are surprised at how much disposable income I have in Atlanta, so it's nice to get some actual facts behind it.

[@jennifertarin4707]

I've considered Atlanta, but don't drive. How accessible is the city via public transportation?

[@DeathMachina123]

Only certain parts of the city are well served by public transit (Rail), but it’s most of the important commercial centers.

[@knutthompson7879]

You mention people consider the delta in transportation cost when considering housing cost, and I'm not sure everyone does. Or perhaps even most people. It seems to me a lot of people discount car ownership costs, often not even thinking about it at all. Like moving 25 miles out of town to save on rent/mortgage is pure profit, even though the difference is often more than countered by the increase in car-oriented expenses.

[@ElFlippage]

This is definitely true. The average American essentially treats cars as free, despite always complaining about gas prices, which is odd.

[@EricaGamet]

When I moved to Seattle 7 years ago, people kept telling me to look at places in Tacoma. That would have saved me about $200/month on rent. But either way I knew I would have to ditch my car (I moved from very cheap El Paso, TX). But for me, even more than the added cost of transportation to Seattle, where I knew I'd be spending a lot of time, was the added time and effort to get to the city. So why not dish out more and live in the heart of it. I recently became partially disabled, and knowing that my transportation options are abundant because I'm right in the city has bee super helpful!

[@louisnorred8530]

Even more so, I think people (and in my opinion rightly so) mostly pick places that they want to live based on stuff they like. Most people who are urbanite/trendy types aren't moving to family-focused suburbs to save on rent, and most families who are looking for a bigger house and a bigger little league presence aren't living in downtown to save on car ownership. Maybe this misses the point of the video/comment but i think it's a good thing to keep in mind

[@josephfisher426]

Those people are probably not considering living really "in town" in the first place. Few of our cities are NOT full of cheap places to live, compared to the suburbs.

[@knutthompson7879]

@@louisnorred8530 That is certainly true. I know a couple that moved out to a, to me, inconveniently distant suburb based on, among other thing I am sure, the quality of the local high school football team. It was important to them for their kids to attend a high school that competes for state football championships, a factor that would never register for me.

[@BoredDan7]

I think a big thing with this is looking at the median as the only data point misses a lot. The big trend here seems to be a lot of cities with higher median incomes because wealthier people spend a smaller proportion of their income on housing and transportation. It seems less about the city and more about the jobs. While that might mean moving there offer good opportunities, that's going to depend on education and training if those are opportunities are even there for you. I think what would me really interesting is to look at housing and transportation cost ratios for those same cities at the 25th, 10th, and 5th percentiles. What cities are the best for the less well off or the poor, which cities have the largest spread in cost ratios? Does the list look significantly different at other brackets or is looking at the median a good indicator?

[@lindseyhill3652]

Hi Mr. Nerd, my overlooked city ego (compensating? NO!) has to make a script correction. Atlanta actually IS the bastion of high tech jobs, but you don’t hear about it because it’s the old uncool tech jobs that make the internet and financial technology keep running. While Austin has somewhere between 170-195k tech jobs, Atlanta has between 220-270k and the most diverse workforce of the top 10 tech markets. Also more Fortune 500 headquarters than anywhere but nyc and LA.

[@vinylcabasse]

agreed about the tech jobs (software engineer here!) but not the F500s, not that it really even matters other than as a point of city boosterism - but houston, dallas, san francisco, chicago and even san jose have more

[@shivtim]

Great video! Not surprised to see Atlanta on here. Yes, the metro is sprawling and car-centric, but many neighborhoods in the city proper are very walkable/bikeable with subway transit access, and rent prices (while increasing) are not bad. Combine that with high-ish incomes from the booming economy, and it’s overall a good place to live as an urbanist.

[@talicowart9577]

I was pretty surprised by how low the car ownership is because growing up in and around Atlanta, it's still is (and will be for the foreseeable future) horrifically car dependent. MARTA is also handicapped by it's charter (Thanks GA GOP /s) so expansion is incredibly difficult. Growing up in Georgia and spending a few years in Atlanta, I wanted to love this city more, but the city is pushing the people and businesses that made Atlanta a really cool place to be out of the city. I get why it's on the list, but I have found the city proper is lacking.

[@shivtim]

@@talicowart9577Makes sense, and I mostly agree. One reason Atlanta has a relatively low car ownership is poverty and income inequality. So there are transit-dependent households especially in Southwest Atlanta. And we definitely have gentrification although I would argue it’s not even close to the scale seen in places like DC, Bay Area, etc. I lived car-free in Atlanta for several years, it’s not that hard to do if you’re in Midtown, along the Beltline eastside trail, or some areas around MARTA stations. If you haven’t been back to Atlanta recently, come visit! The Old Fourth Ward and the whole beltline eastside area from Piedmont Park all the way to Glenwood Park is super walkable and bikeable.

[@dbclass2969]

@@talicowart9577it’s not surprising to me. There are a lot of people of low income in Atlanta who wouldn’t be able to afford a car even if they wanted to which is why MARTA has the highest ridership in the south despite the metro being smaller than places like Dallas or Houston or less dense than Miami.

[@talicowart9577]

@@shivtim So I moved to Philly this past March, and I've been been back a few times, plus I grew up in and around Atlanta my entire life, so a lot of my opinions probably haven't changed in a year lol Outside of those areas that MARTA rail runs on or in the actual skyscraper part of Atlanta, Atlanta is - aggressively - antagonistic to pedestrians. When visiting my sister, it was a mile and a half walk to Kensington Station from her house, majority of it in the grass. (She is one of two people in ATL that I know are car free and she is not by choice) Then depending on the time of day or day of the week, you might have to wait 20 minutes for a train after hiking 30-40 minutes. 40-60 minutes to just get on the train is not good urbanism I don't doubt Atlanta's walkability in a few neighborhoods, but those neighborhoods rarely have housing that is affordable. Most of my friends back in Atlanta are in some form of service industry job and they are struggling to afford to live in the city. I still had to have 2-3 other roommates for the rent to be reasonable, and I was making a little less than the median salary noted in the video. A lot of the problems Atlanta has, don't fit into a spreadsheet. Again, love a lot of people in Atlanta, but whew, Atlanta does not come to mind when I think about great urbanist cities.

[@scpatl4now]

A lot of the new housing in high rises in West Midtown and Midtown/Downtown are asking for rents that seem extremely high to me. We'll see if they can lease them, but I think rents in Atlanta are about to rise substantially. Although, if they keep building them (and there are tons coming on line every day now it seems), there are going to be too many at that price point and some will have to come down. The Urbanize Atlanta website seems to show new buildings going up daily

[@ifithrewmyguitaroutt]

I live in Atlanta, and you can definitely live car-light here. Ideally you'd be near a MARTA station to do so. The only thing is that there's no rail between cities around here to speak of, so to get to a nearby city, it's either a short flight or a Greyhound... but that's most American cities. Please do a deeper dive on Atlanta, CityNerd! Lots of interesting stuff going on here.

[@charlienyc1]

It's been almost four years since I visited and still can't believe there's no train between Atlanta & Athens!

[@lindseyhill3652]

Amtrak does come through Atlanta!

[@BellaJoASMR]

It’s ironic because I’m working so hard to move out of Atlanta to a city where I won’t be so car dependent 😂. Try going to a farmers market and watch all the cars circling for parking for places with LARGE lots and on the Beltline.

[@breensprout]

as a carrollton TX (dallas suburb with ~120K people, up near the plano/frisco area you showed) native and current arlington VA (DC suburb? idk it's basically still DC) resident, it was interesting to see both those areas on this list in different ways. i've been thinking a lot of moving back to TX since my family is there but living somewhere without good public transit would be annoying. however, like you've shown in other videos, there are always pockets of walkability everywhere. downtown carrollton is fairly walkable and on the DART rail line that goes directly to downtown dallas, for example. and if you lived across from the h-mart plaza in carrollton you'd probably never need to leave LOL. anyway, always something i'm thinking about, and yeah, comparatively cheap rent, cheaper food, cheaper car insurance, fewer taxes, etc. do end up being tradeoffs people are willing to make.

[@crowmob-yo6ry]

And downtown Carrollton will get even better when the new Silver regional rail line is built.

[@ruedelta]

It's probably DC if you can take the metro down to the Washington Memorial. At least that's how I think of the DMV.

[@breensprout]

​@@ruedelta yeah i'm not near a metro station but i'm sandwiched between like pentagon city and rosslyn, so, still within the metro service area. it's not DC dc but it's not a suburb like tx suburbs are suburbs so it's kinda confusing.

[@ruedelta]

@@breensprout I'm up in Potomac, it's the same deal. Metro has a bunch of parking lots which isn't ideal, but there's also the bus service here, and I figure if you can get to the metro stations without feeling like you lost a limb in the process, that counts.

[@irinavgdidier]

Loved the video and the vibe, congrats!

[@vickitori_7143]

A thing this little series made me think about is the different measures you use. Yeah, rental price and income are median values to better portray the experiences of a "typical" person than mean/average might, but it does fall apart a bit when it comes to car ownership because, like, you can't own half a car (for transportation purposes anyway). You can only pay car payments, insurance, etc. on a whole number of cars. Using median values (which would basically have to be a distinct value, mostly 1 or 2 unless you live in, like, San Bernardino) would seriously impact the ordering of the list. I know your sub count means it is a huge logistical challenge to read all these, especially from college students who can't afford to casually throw you like $100, but it does beg the question, how about a video looking at households choosing whether to own either 1 or 2 cars? And what challenges do people owning 2 cars face when downsizing to 1 car? Obviously not counting just simply relocating to a different, more walkable/transit friendly city. I would love to hear your thoughts.

[@tednugent1100]

Agreed, great comment

[@bobbabai]

Cool! I could literally see the building where I live in the Minneapolis flyover! I live in a nice place (I rent - and it has quirks that some might not like) and I'm able to live without a car. My housing plus transportation cost is roughly $1,400 averaged over a year. I completely rely on bicycling for 7 months of the year. I take Lyft and Uber a fair amount during the winter months and almost not at all during those 7 months when I bicycle. I'm going to try grocery delivery this winter and maybe car share/rental, too.

[@dotnothing5620]

Income ruined the project. If I wait tables in Seattle vs Pittsburgh, my take-home pay will not substantially change to the degree my housing+transportation costs will. That is, in relocating, it matters little what the median income is in the community, it matters only what my earning potential is, and that doesn't go up a lot if I got to a wealthier community. Ergo, median income screwed the pooch. I think this just became another way to demonstrate that wealthy people get nice things.

[@empireoftruth3291]

yeah urban wage premiums are next to nonexistant for non degree holding workers. Furthermore a lot of the reason the median income is so high in these cities is because of how thuroughly poor people have been pushed out.

[@ac3theartist225]

Maybe it wouldve helped to factor in minimum wage somehow? Pittsburgh's min wage is the federal (7.25), but in Seattle it's about to be 19.97. that still puts you well below the median in seattle but it does change the picture for affordability. In any case, I think he knew what these results would say (the thumbnail says "the rich get richer").

[@markweaver1012]

@@ac3theartist225 The statutory minimum doesn't tell you how much entry-level, low-skill workers (in retail and fast food) actually get paid. For example, ZipRecruiter says the average McDonald's crewmember pay in Pittsburgh is $15/hr.

[@empireoftruth3291]

@@ac3theartist225 minimum wage is a poor metric because very few people are paid at that level. I think maybe something like median non degree earnings or 25th percentile earnings would make more sense.

[@ac3theartist225]

@@empireoftruth3291 good to know! That makes sense to me.

[@seanedging6543]

I like how the theme of this video is low key “have more money, then things are affordable”

[@cameron3317]

I think it’d be interesting to see a top 10 list of affordable cities with the most foot traffic downtown. I feel like most of the benefits of a big city is just having a place where people want to be out and about.

[@BloodRider1914]

Definitely glad to see my hometown of Austin on a good list for once. It is very possible to live on a bike near the central city (as I do), and the bus network is pretty decent too.

[@bobrk]

Hey, San Jose at no. 4! Wow. I've been trying to live an urban lifestyle here for years, with a dilapidated old house in the downtown area with good walkability and somewhat cheaper prices than other parts of town. Love the channel, keep it up!

[@matthewhall5571]

I'm doing the exact same thing in the same place. The downtown is totally underappreciated and keeps getting infrastructure upgrades.

[@sergiojuarez3015]

Yup same here. DTSJ is great if you can get a decent paying gig and use the public transit in the area.

[@steelplexfyro]

You did it! Excited for the video

[@samhuffines]

Thank you so much for making the correct distinction from “raising the question” and “begging the question”

[@raaaaaaaaaam496]

a list about the best/worst standalone cities that aren't 1million+? aka cities that are like 200 miles away from other big cities(200,000+) cities such as Spokane, Lubbock, boise, omaha, des moines, etc but not cities like Albuquerque or pheonix. I think this could be interesting because these cities have to rely on themselves for regional transportation, entertainment, utilities etc. They also are very isolated from other cities in their state. Spokane/coer dalene is very seperate from the rest of washington and southern idaho. With literal mountains separating them from the rest of their states. Cities like lubbock or El Paso in texas share almost nothing in common with the texas triangle.

[@danielvanhorne1973]

Hey, love your channel, as someone living in LA, you have opened my mind to the idea of mass transit. Not sure if this is something that you might make a video on, but I would love to hear you talk about where LA could be today if we kept and expanded upon the street cars and never built highways throughout. If not, thats fine too, just love your videos when they come out.

[@carmillachoate]

These last two videos have been great. I love this kind of analysis though I DID have to come over from Nebula to leave a comment :P I would love to see companion videos discussing the best/worst cities for low and high income. These needs are dramatically different than the hypothetical median and I think you could offer some valuable insight into the conversation.

[@eazydee5757]

You should do a video on the urbanism and walkability of those “ski villages” that are located on ski resorts (Vail, Beaver Creek, Keystone, Breckenridge, Olympic Valley, Heavenly, Mammoth Lakes, Park City, Aspen, Whistler, Stratton, Waterville Valley, Jiminy Peak, Mont-Tremblant, etc.)

[@SiouxsieAngel]

I wouldn’t call Chicago the Philly of the Midwest, but I’ll take the relative affordability here. Speaking for myself…..housing is less than 30% of my household take home and taking mass transit means our transit expenses are around 5%. So yah. Good amount of disposable income. Plus, abundant fresh water access.

[@charlienyc1]

And the biking infrastructure keeps improving, though it has a ways to go.

[@thepainproject5255]

I LOVE THAT YOU PANNED THE STONE ARCH BRIDGE IN MPLS!!! I live in this neighborhood, and (based on experience, not data) I can say it has been the most enjoyable, rich AND walkable urban fabric I have ever experienced, this is after living in Boston for 9 years and spending significant time in NYC. I haven't found anywhere I'd prefer to live, for any price.

[@kennethduckworth7111]

You can absolutely go car free in Washington, DC. From 1984 -92, I lived in the District and Arlington, VA without a car. I would just rent a car when I needed one.

[@kevley26]

Great video as always. One thing that these medians miss is the idea of which city potentially has the lowest housing and transportation costs adjusted for income. I would bet that it would be someone living in Minneapolis and owning 0 cars. What this list does not include is which cities are comfortable to go without a car completely, and thus drop transportation costs immensely. I think a reason why many of the more walkable cities are not doing so well is because even though it is possible and comfortable to go car free, not everyone does it, which raises the median costs by a lot. I guess what Im trying to say is that there is a niche of people in transit oriented cities who spend nothing on car ownership while also paying less than average for housing. This niche is almost nonexistent in car dependent cities, which makes me believe that the city with the least expensive niche would be a city with good urbanism and less expensive housing like Minneapolis.

[@ficus3929]

I think saying it’s possible vs are people actually going to do it is interesting. SF has something like 70% car ownership and that’s pretty low by American standards.

[@kellinbonilla3507]

Really good point! I live in a small city in WA where the median rent is right around 1500 for a 1 bedroom apartment, which is expensive in my opinion, but I don't own a car so I pay around $50 a month on transport. This means that creating a savings is actually feasible.

[@kingsford6540]

The issue is that in most of these cities, the first thing you do when you get enough money is get a car

[@meppieomg]

This is why Seattle is at the top imo. The city is much more bike able than most (even though we complain about it being bad incessantly) and so you can easily live without a car. If you have high income and bike most places you're getting very high value. This is my situation and Seattle feels like one of the most liveable cities in the country and my previous homes were also on this list (Chicago and Minneapolis.)

[@emiliorosas6713]

Can’t wait for your Atlanta city visit! I’ll give you a tour if you want the college student perspective

[@williammckelvey2677]

I lived car-free in DC for 14 years. I live car-free in Denver now. Of the two cities, Denver has offered me opprotunity to finally finish my degree. Whereas I struggled to get by in DC for those 14 years. I never had fewer than two jobs, sometimes I had four. I worked every weekend. It wasn't ideal. But my last year in the city I was in a relationship, sharing rent to live in a nice apartment in Adams Morgan. I had just started an office job (still worked part time as a tour guide). I was getting a taste of what DC can be to people who are comfortable. And I miss it. In Denver I work in service again and every weekend. But my apartment is larger, and in a great neighborhood (Cheesman Park).

[@Tugennov]

Awesome 2-part series. Thanks.

[@NVader90]

More employers in Philadelphia are using the SEPTA Advantage program to compensate their workers with free or low-cost transportation on the robust SEPTA transit network. Many of the universities and government offices provide this as a benefit, and it makes Philadelphia a really appealing place to live if you can secure a middle class income (which currently sits above the median since we are a poor city).

[@Mitchell-me7bp]

This is neat. I recently moved to Seattle and as I was looking for work here, I noticed that an Orca pass was a very frequently listed benefit under job descriptions.

[@Nouvellecosse]

Wow this video was very interesting and thought provoking! I think my biggest takeway was, "There's two cats?? All this time I thought there was only one!" 😳🤯

[@philiphimmelstein9510]

Love the content! Unique, thorough, and humorous! Would def appreciate time stamps tho!

[@EnoughTimeTravel]

Truly wonderful to see you highlight Givewell. They are my favorite. Thank you!🙏🏻

[@obrothernotagain4668]

I love the video and that you responded to the demand for a top-ten after making the bottom ten. I'm also feeling super vindicated that my city made the list. The only issue I have is this use of the median salary. It suggests that a person who was earning the median salary with a specific career in their own city would be able to move to [new city] and also make the median salary of the new city with the same career. But sadly that's just not the case. In Philadelphia, most teachers make more than the median salary of the city (average teacher is $61k whereas median is $55k), but if they were to move to SF, they would make so much less (average teacher is $71k in a city with median salary of $105k). The reason the median income in SF, NYC, DC, Dallas, San Jose, etc is so high is that people with specialized skills congregate there for career opportunities. A welder making the median income in Boise ($44k) would not be able to move to Manhattan and find a job that earns $95k unless they happened to also be a finance wiz. Perhaps for future comparisons you might use the representative incomes of a specific career, or a basket of careers that were needed in every city: teacher, server, EMT, tradesman, etc. If that were the case and you used smaller cities, I feel Eugene would have topped that list!

[@Sordesman]

I moved from Seattle to DC a few months ago and I found that the same money I’m making goes leaps and bounds further in DC. I know my situation is anecdotal, but I am very surprised with Seattle ranking the highest.

[@sterlingmarshel6299]

not really a surprise - being in tech helps for sure.

[@lindsiria]

Seattle is expensive in very visable ways, but cheap in more 'hidden' ways. Rent has finally stablized (and even gone down), as Seattle is one of the few places to have built a ton of apartments for years now, and made it easier to build. Transportation costs are cheap outside driving, and aren't bad at all. Plus, Seattle doesn't have an income tax. Between all of the above, it can save you a ton of money. However, Seattle has insanely high food, gasoline and alcohol costs. If you are someone who likes to go out, Seattle can make you feel poor as hell. Gasoline is insanely expensive, which hurts if you need to drive (live outside the city). More or less, if you are fine in a smaller apartment, don't need to drive and don't go out that often, you can make it quite easily here. If you like to socialize, drive or want a bigger place? Yeah, Seattle isn't going to be kind to your wallet.

[@OreoGang69]

Love the content. Please keep it coming

[@dwaynerichardson5380]

This video solidified my reasoning for taking my retired behind from NYC to Philadelphia.

[@ccmarvmd8200]

Thank you for another great video! A video about the new rail announcements over the last week could be really interesting, there's a lot of moving pieces and I know personally it's a bit hard to follow, but it all seems super exciting!

[@lukelabiak2657]

Would love a video like this that focuses on best cities for high and low earners. Something like top and bottom 10 and 1%

[@nickmonks9563]

WE MADE A GOOD LIST! Denver, here. Appreciate the caveat as well, because it's so true. It's a great place to live, even if it is suffering a little of Portland's "dispiriting" qualities, but we do spend a huge amount of our income on rent/mortgage. That said, our transit is decent (busses butter than our rail, but still working on it), bikeable (working on that too), and very slowly becoming more walkable.

[@elliotac7492]

I look for walkability, weather, affordability and culture (food/entertainment) and I landed on uptown new orleans. We welcome you Citynerd!

[@blores95]

Living in LA but have thought about leaving for Portland, so it's nice to see it on this list. Biggest hurdle would just be the weather and 90% of my wife and I's family is either here or in Mexico. People say Portland is expensive but already living here I never understood how that could be from when I looked into it. Glad to see some justification/proof.

[@anthonyfox477]

Cheap for the west coast - expensive compared to non coastal major cities.

[@Trenz0]

As someone who moved up here from socal, never forget that its only a 2 hour flight away

[@bbbnuy3945]

good luck finding an apartment in portland for $1600. not sure how that data was gathered, but most rentals units are $2000+

[@nasirjones-bey6565]

Move to Washington D.C.

[@evildude109]

Can confirm the DC numbers are real and it's pretty cheap compared to the economic opportunity you get. I was in the median household there for a few years, 100k combined per year and around 2k rent. I was able to save plenty for retirement.

[@StarJDog]

Props to you and getting Givewell as a sponsor, they do some great research and everyone should seriously consider giving if able

[@linnyalexan5899]

Ive honestly loved these past two videos. I greatly appreciated the callouts for grains of salt where needed with the data, but all of these things are top of mind as Ive been debating to take a job after completing my graduate degree. Living in a city that is heavily car infrastructured is not my goal, but its been hard to balance where jobs are with where housing is reasonable. NYC and Bay Area, lots of jobs in my industry, but harder to garner appreciable savings depending on where you live to commute for work.

[@sirrebral]

The truism of "the devil is in the details" really applies here...for example, which neighborhoods a median income earning person can find median-priced rent, and whether those neighborhoods are well-served by public transportation and high walk/bikeability. In that regard, cities (and even zip codes) are a flawed unit of analysis (but it's better than those silly and worthless "best state" rankings). Census tract information might be a lot more insightful when it comes to identifying "sweet spots" for working people to live. But that kind of analysis reminds me of something that one of my econ professors was fond of saying, "you work with the data that's available, not the data you wish you had."

[@micosstar]

thanks citynerd! (notifications “all” and youtube sent your vid to my homepage)

[@JoaoPedro-sb5sq]

I was looking forward to this video! Though the cities aren't what I expected... Might I request for a video on Connecticut?

[@anthonyfox477]

This is crazy - really surprised to see that the median rent in Seattle and Chicago is so similar.

[@cllax14]

“A hollowed out smoking crater” 😂😂😂 this comment hit home for me because I was recently debating a coworker on how Portland actually is. This is how he portrays the city and I love to counter his point by telling him all the cool things I’ve experienced while visiting Portland to undermine the narrative right wing media churns out of “liberal” cities

[@MeTheOneth]

I work in downtown Portland, and a common joke among my colleagues is to gesture out the window at the city and describe the non-existent destruction and chaos.

[@knutthompson7879]

I'm told my city (Austin TX) is a crumbling sewer of crime, homeless drug addicts, and socialism. I grew up in the rural south ("God's Country", "The REAL America", "Try that in a small town" etc) and wow there was a lot of crumbling, crime, drug addicts, and people living on welfare there, I can promise you.

[@crowmob-yo6ry]

The political hatred for California as a state is worst of all.

[@soullessblacklight]

This was an unexpectedly wild list, glad to be in the bay area; seems that a couple of the cities on this list are supplemented w/ good weather as well

[@russtravels7]

This is a great video! Have you considered making one with the most cost efficient walkable Florida cities? I did my own calculations before the pandemic but things have changed so much. Thank you for what you do!!

[@nwcolbert]

I hope you can do an ATL visit one day!

[@FromPSB]

Would love to see the cars per household trend for Austin over the last 20 years. Much of our housing stock in the urban core has been added in New Urbanist or multimodal developments some with very limited parking (West Campus). My guess is despite increasing incomes in Austin, we are seeing a reduction of cars per household. Maybe a top 10 list of cities that are reducing cars per household over the last 20 years. Unfortunately we are still sprawling everywhere so if it is the metro area, I bet we aren't doing too well.

[@BloodRider1914]

At least Austin's development is concentrated north-south as opposed to all over the place as in other Texas cities, so the sprawl is theoretically more manageable when it comes to transit development.

[@sammymarrco47]

Lots of collage students too

[@BloodRider1914]

@@sammymarrco47 I know, I'm one of them

[@14sasst]

Seriously need to consider the huge concentration of University of Texas students- many without cars but free campus transportation..

[@OliverHarrington]

@@BloodRider1914 definitely, and if CapMetro can get that light rail line built on Lamar/Guadalupe/Congress it'll be a game-changer for north-south mobility, along with the recently-approved HOME initiative promoting density.

[@checkoutmyyoutubepage]

I live in Vegas and I tell people Chicago has the best city design ever in America and maybe the world and people see me weird. The architecture alone isn’t found anywhere else. It has a lot of water. It’s close to agriculture. A city meant to exist.

[@markweaver1012]

The only problem is that, Lake Michigan aside, Chicago is not located anywhere near interesting natural areas. You pretty much have to go well up into Wisconsin or Michigan for decent outdoor recreation.

[@checkoutmyyoutubepage]

@@markweaver1012 that’s the sacrifice when ya wanna live close to agriculture pretty much.

[@markweaver1012]

@@checkoutmyyoutubepage I guess -- but the moat of suburbs surrounding Chicago is wide enough that there's not much agriculture near city residents anyway. This is true of pretty much any big city. If you want to live near agriculture, you'll need to pick some place smaller. In the college town where I live, I can be cycling past farms only a few miles outside city boundaries (in fact, that's one of the places I like best to bike -- down rural gravel roads with minimal slow-speed traffic). The 'surrounded by a moat of suburbs' factor is probably the biggest single reason I'd never really consider living full-time in a major city.

[@jeramiahcoffey103]

I'm so thrilled to see Denver on one of your lists.

[@1ironfist1]

Another banger. It doesn't quite meet your criteria but I'd love to see your analysis on a place like Lubbock, TX with very low housing costs but substantial transport costs.

[@_mkln_]

your footage just reminded me. WHY are cars allowed at pike place market? what's the purpose? it's essentially already a pedestrian area, why do able bodied individuals feel like they need a giant wheelchair across the busy area?

[@stevedolan8095]

70's era "environmentalists" still hold considerable sway on the market's board. As soon as they are gone I expect some retractable bollards and it being deliveries only (which is correct, the main road is the only easy way to deliver product to the Market)

[@theonlyalecazam2947]

Would love to see cargo bikes delivering more there

[@marknevitt1417]

@CityNerd - Atlanta would love to have you do a deep-dive and analysis on a host of *critical* projects as you briefly mention in the video. For example - 1. The 22 mile Atlanta Beltline is making enormous progress in 2024, but there are questions regarding whether transit will be placed alongside the Beltline, as originally planned. The Atlanta Beltline is one of the largest, most wide-ranging urban redevelopment programs in North America, and it is poised to fundamentally transform Atlanta. I moved here recently and swapped a car for an e-bike. 2. The newly named John Lewis Freedom Parkway Trail was the largest public green space set aside in a major metropolitan area in the United States in the 20th century and now connects to the Beltline, but questions remain about how best to implement its Master Plan. 3. Atlanta has a lot of room to improve in terms of sidewalks and walkability/bike-ability but significant progress has been made. Your viewers may be surprised and interested to learn about changes that are underway in this dynamic, diverse city. Come visit us! Everyone has to connect via ATL anyway!

[@scottcaillier]

Atlanta has always had a lot of promise but continues to fail to deliver. Lack of support from the State and prioritizing developers over citizens will always be the problem. Too much corruption.

[@marknevitt1417]

@@scottcaillier I think it is a bit more nuanced than that. To be sure, the state legislature does not do any urbanism favors for Atlanta, but I've lived in Philly, DC, and NY and I have been impressed with Atlanta's urbanism in the 18 months that I've lived here. (pleasantly surprised, actually) This is reflected in the scale and vision of the 22-mile Beltline which overcame a host of challenges and is funded and will be complete in 5 years. It is a remarkable achievement despite the political headwinds you mentioned. The key question is whether transit will be added - a worthy topic for CityNerd.

[@amwchicago5276]

I fell for that ad transition harder than the last time I went skating. Well done

[@OnTheHorizonSomewhere]

Denver and Seattle account for nearly half the homes being built in the nation’s downtowns right now. Seattle has over a hundred thousand units in planning to come online this decade. You can't get a house here but apartments should be readily available for the foreseeable future.

[@TaylorOlmstead]

As much as I complain about Atlanta's housing market these days, I do think its placement here tracks. Average incomes do seem to be slowly increasing to keep pace with rent (at least among the young creative professional circles I run in). The rental stock, on the other hand, is a major issue. A lot of it is either very old and poorly maintained or in a luxury building. The median rental is quickly vanishing and I'd love to see that number tracked over time. Maybe compared to other southeastern cities?

[@nathandaven]

Atlanta mentioned 🙌

[@hectorhector]

Love your videos!

[@Gard3nman]

I have been watching your videos since discovering your channel last year. I consider myself a "city nerd" as well and your insights have helped me a great deal. Also, are you familiar with the Urban Reform Institute?, and if so what is your opinion on them. I have started reading some of their reports and it seems that they are anti urban density, any thoughts?

[@brianbuckler]

I live in Tacoma WA and was met with so many public transit opportunities that I decided to save money by going car-free. The pay raise was so great that I was finally able to afford buying a house.

[@danielbatmanj349]

I'd love to see what those outliers on the income vs rent graph

[@a_pet_rock]

Using a median average instead of a mean average helps adjust for outliers. Bezos is still only one dude.

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

@@a_pet_rock He means the graph at 3:37. The outlying dots.

[@ericchen6803]

furthest right is definitely new york

[@adambubble73]

Very curious on where the “median rent” number comes from, for Boston it really stuck out. Curious if thats because of the large number of people who live with roommates - $3700 median rent is high but not if theres 3-4 people living in that unit (which is often the case in Boston).

[@jirehguy]

Was not expecting Atlanta, but it makes sense knowing how rich Buckhead is, and how housing is relatively affordable compared to other metros like New York.

[@nik257]

Wow! Was not expecting Austin to be on the list, but glad my city got on a good list!

[@Jessica_P_Fields]

I was excited to see this video, and it didn't disappoint. Thank you! That said... I would be really interested to see this series with the inclusion of median household tax burden (combined federal, state, and local). I suspect that would move around some of the rankings, since taxation can be a significant expense (especially for those of us who are unmarried and child-free). As a current Florida resident, I freely admit that I'm accustomed to low taxes (even though I know I'm paying out at least some of those savings in other areas). While I wouldn't go as far as to say these videos are steering my decision-making regarding future moves, I will say that these videos do oftentimes mirror things that I've noticed in my own informal research (mostly trolling job ads and zillow). I'll admit that does make me feel better about the general conclusions I'm coming to myself.

[@Dpmt]

Washington State doesn’t have an income tax so Seattle would almost certainly still be number 1.

[@Jessica_P_Fields]

@@Dpmt yeah, I just did some light googling, and based on averages, Washington state as a whole does have a low tax burden. I do think that the California and Texas entries would be negatively affected though.