Where’s the Middle Ground for O-Gauge Trains?

[@OGaugeFreddie]

Thanks Mike for brining attention to this!! You’re the one that inspired me to start my channel and these exact sentiments are a big reason why. You shouldn’t have to have large amounts of disposable income to enjoy o gauge. I feel like more people could and would get into the hobby if they weren’t scared away by the price tags.

[@robertbeauregard4672]

I’ve done a 4x8 that was suspended from my garage ceiling with foldable legs. Compact when up, sturdy when down. I also use matchbox kings and corgi cars for my O. All my trains were used for many years before I could buy anything out of the catalog. Good luck, have fun.

[@zachariahmclaughlin919]

This area left with Weaver Trains and I doubt it will return until Menards has a more comprehensive and detailed offering

[@johnmartino4750]

I second everything you said! We have both a lion master and Railking big boy and enjoy them very much

[@ArtsModelTrains]

Great video and totally agree! You know I love lionmaster but you make a great point, Lionel needs to give lionchief plus 2.0 some love! That would be a great way to fill that gap.

[@mlshull]

Totally agree!

[@ryanstrains]

I find MTH Rail King the best value in O gauge. Detailed engines and lots of options. Smoke units on virtually every engine. And good runners!

[@Dadified86]

They’re not bad! Just wish the details and proportions on the 844 looked better. It’s one of the weaker designs IMHO. That’s the one I’m really itching for a good design of!!

[@ryanstrains]

@@Dadified86 Agree! Something’s could use work. I like have a small layout. 5x7ish. I just started a Reno to expand to 0-54 curves for the Hiawatha. But, a lot of MTH scale steam will run on a minimum of 0-42, which I appreciate! Hudson, Dreyfuss, Mikado, etc. Their scale diesels run on tighter curves as well…ES44 for example will do 0-36 where Lionel is 0-54.

[@scottstrainloft5965]

I agree with you and what @zechariahfrink3707 stated below. And that is why I purchase a lot of MTH RailKing, to have some big steam locomotives like the Big Boy and Challenger that will run on O31 and O42 curves. I think Lionel is missing a huge segment of the market.

[@Dadified86]

Yeah had the LionMaster versions of those not existed, I would’ve had the RailKing ones like you. Bigger engines can fit on smaller layouts and we don’t all have football fields of space to work with!

[@TaylorsTrains]

Well said, I totally agree. Those of us with tighter radius curve layouts are extremely limited to the engines we can run. A return to a hybrid Lionchief / Lionmaster engine would be a welcome addition to the next Lionel catalog.

[@Dadified86]

One can only hope Lionel is listening. Seems like there’s enough interest to warrant at least re-releasing an existing design with new tech inside. The Class A, T-1 Duplex, Challengers, there are good designs that would work pretty easily.

[@zechariahfrink3707]

I agree with what you’re saying! I feel Lionel needs to bring back the Lionmaster line and expand on the lionchief and maybe not offer all of them in full legacy. Make some railking tmcc equipment. MTH is still making railking offering but very limited numbers compared what they used to produce. The used market for railking is pretty good. There are some thing overpriced with the older electronics but I’ve seen that with any scale these days.

[@Dadified86]

We’re on the same page. It’s just that our page is missing from the catalog 😂

[@TheTrainboard]

As you suggested, I like mth on the used market, especially mr muffin monthly auction of used items.there are no fees, shipping really reasonable, a week to look before you bid, and a large variety. Gary

[@raysrails2164]

Yep i hear you , great video !

[@Dadified86]

Thanks! Always love seeing your videos so I appreciate the support!

[@williamb.8762]

I've been looking for my first mid-range train for about a month now. I developed a taste for robust smoke units when, in 5th grade, I witnessed a video of the 2014 Visionline Big Boy's smoke features, leaving an indelible effect on my young mind. Although my 2010 polar express set didn't have all the extra smoke units, I always wondered why it didn't move well super slow and smoke more after seeing that video, and obviously, I now know it doesn't have fan-driven smoke. I later saw a Santa Fe LC+ FT diesel with an exhaust smoke unit, but I could not afford it at the time, nor were my parents willing to buy it for me for ~$500 (which was not unreasonable). Hence, I got a Bachmann Santa Fe starter set with a ton of track and some cars. This satisfied me for a few years. Trying to get into HO, I was disappointed by the lack of smoke units, and soon lost interest in trains for a few years. Around New Year's, I was researching one of my great-uncle's prewar train cars and decided to see what Lionel had been up to. I got the train itch again, but have now amassed greater savings. However, since I was out of trains for a few years, I think it would be a waste of money to buy a whistle steam train in case I loose interest again. I also have trouble justifying the prices to myself. Therefore, to see how serious I am to maybe buy a B&O EM-1 the next time Lionel releases one, I figured I would buy myself a mid-range train. Like you, Lionel's LC+(2.0) selection as of late has disappointed me, and outside of a Big Boy, which I would probably want to go all out with in full-scale, Lionel's only "larger" semi-scale is a Berkshire, which I have already. However, through my research into other O scale train brands, MTH's RailKing trains seem like a good alternative. Although they've done some restructuring in the last few years, which has led to a decrease in options, they have released many mid-range, semi-scale, larger, iconic trains, outside of just the Big Boy (additionally, they seem to release semi-scale Big Boys more often than Lionel). They have historically released many iconic semi-scale steam engines, such as the N&W J-class, GS-4, Dreyfuss Hudson, and the Blue Comet (While Lionel released a Blue Comet starter set recently, the smoke unit falls short of what I seek). MTH RailKing engines tend to be cheaper than LC+(2.0), seem to be a bit more prototypical (based on detail comparisons I've seen between the Legacy vs. Premier lines), and most importantly to me, are cheaper, still well-built, and have more robust smoke units. While none of the iconic engines I mentioned above are currently available from MTH, and I am not familiar with how often they run certain engines, they have not released any of these trains in RailKing in the last few years, so I would assume at least one of those will be released in the next year or so. Until then, I will wait (or maybe get a Lionel B&O Pacific, we shall see).

[@Dadified86]

Admittedly I don’t know much about newer offerings from MTH. I really like their freight cars and passenger cars. Our line just has TMCC so I’d need another control system if I wanted to also add MTH engines. That’s why I love the LionMaster releases. Sad to see that line wither away, but finding them secondhand has been nice.

[@strasburgrailfan90]

They need to put LC+ 2.0 in more items and bring back some of their smaller sets too.

[@Dadified86]

There’s a lot they could release simply by reusing recent designs and updating them to the latest tech. Change some numbers, road names, and maybe update a detail or two and call it a day.

[@strasburgrailfan90]

⁠@@Dadified86 Definitely, they used to offer so many cool sets and add-on cars. But now, the only sets they really make are Polar Express, Thomas (they don’t even offer the other characters anymore), Hogwarts, Super Chief, and John Deere. The set I want to return the most is the Rio Grande General set 6-30168. The locomotive had a special plow attached to it, and it looks amazing.

[@WisconsinSouthern58]

Couldn't agree more

[@UncleSalty-nz5uk]

I agree 100%. I don't think lionel is going to make the semi-scale articulateds anymore. My guess would be not enough of a profit margin. I to only buy second hand and have really been impressed with the railking stuff. The SP cab forward is awesome BTW!. Remember also with K-Line, even their scale steamers were rated for 0-31. A UP mikado would look awesome on your layout! Great vid, thanks for sharing.

[@TheTrainboard]

I like the used market, primarily the no fee ogr maketplace, the monthly no fees mr muffin used items auction, and trainz. I used ebay for years in the past but sellers now are very often problematic, although paypal helps returning bad items. Im no ebay anymore, the other alternatives are far better. Gary

[@TwistedMacGyversTrains]

I agree with everything you said. We need more articulated engines for semi scale.👍

[@BoardGamesBricksHobbies]

Had a few HO sets and two G-Gauge trains, but there wasn't room for both a model railroad and a Lego City. It was bittersweet, but my channel name tells you who won out. Granted, this is eight years later the Lego City is still a daydream, but at least I still have some 9-volt L-Gauge trains.

[@Ben-Dover75]

Hey this conversation seems familiar lol great video Mike. Just hope someone at Lionel is paying attention. As others have said there’s an untapped market.

[@Dadified86]

You might’ve kickstarted the idea for this video 👍

[@Ben-Dover75]

@@Dadified86 hope it kickstarts Lionel to make more quality semi scale stuff.

[@therosejewelrailroad489]

Good video you made a good point. After I seen some of your lionmaster locomotives. I’ve got my eye on one I seen last weekend at a new train shop I just visited.

[@therosejewelrailroad489]

I bought that big girl I had my eye on. love it! Going to a train show in Madison Wisconsin this weekend. Hoping to find some 18 inch passenger cars for it. The only thing that drives me nuts is. The bell goes off or on over every switch or glitch I cross. I usually end up turning the sound off. It’s locomotive 4011 for year 2010. Hopping to get some passenger cars before I shoot the video.

[@joshuacampbell9990]

I’m one who would love to branch off to some of the new nicer offerings. But I’m mainly a postwar guy although my collection goes as recent as the late 1990s. My biggest concern is the horror stories I read/hear about of how problematic/finicky the newer offerings can be. Plus I’m a big fan of conventional control due to it just being flat out simple. That’s something I wish to see come back as it is a lot more reliable in my opinion.

[@Shipwright1918]

Was surprised to see the prarie return to the traditional o line, think it's a step in the right direction. Still...didn't see any reason to swap my prewar prarie for it when it was 1/4 the price used. I think the middle ground is exactly what you and a good many others are doing. Preowned locos and cars at reasonable prices on smaller layouts the average person can build and detail themselves. If space is a concern and you still want O, O-27 tubular's the way to go.

[@dennis2494]

Lion Chief Plus 2.0 is the answer because the detailing and features are getting better and they can run on tighter curves . I don't have room to make a layout with O60 or larger curves, so Lion Chief Plus 2.0 is for me. I wish that Lionel would improve the speakers and detailing on the Lion Chief Plus 2.0 models.

[@williamkolina3988]

Someone said railking Excellent stuff also don't forget MPC era engines Actually good for youngsters to use Simple and rugged

[@dagryffynhobby]

There is definitely a hole in the catalog. I’d like to see more “affordable” engines and sets. It seems there is “toy” and “scale” what about the “average guy” models! Maybe just shy of scale but not toylike, and I’d even say cut back on tech to make it more affordable.

[@Quinton_the_Collector]

I would love Lionmaster to get another go around and maybe knock down the prices on the second hand market.

[@ChazzLyons]

💯 agree!

[@russsommer8675]

Amen!

[@gregleuze6657]

I feel like KLine’s goal was to sell budget friendly engines and rolling stock. Less competition will not lead to lower prices. Lionel is going for all that big money.

[@Eyrrll]

Technically, HO uses roughly 1/4 of the footprint space because it is roughly half-sized in length and depth. Good video though… prices are crazy.

[@DFLTrains]

100% agree

[@arthurlites9658]

I agree with this. There is an alternative and that is MTH railking which is what I buy. Mth is still bringing out the RK line. . Recently they did a big boy. Supporting the competition will get Lionels attention

[@Dadified86]

I’ve been a big fan of their rolling stock but not so much the engines. Lionel’s LionMaster line for bigger semi-scale steamers offers very nicely detailed and proportioned engines that are head-and-shoulders above the RailKing versions. I’d go for a RailKing FEF-3 “844” but the proportions are too shrunken and the details aren’t up to part with other modern tooling.

[@DanPursel]

do not let the age of the child dictate the size of trains you want to run i was 4 years old when i got my first train set and it was n gauge i am now 48 years old i still have them all and still run them every year on my birthday and have all my life its love and training bigger is not always better now my 12 x12 foot layout has all my faves g , o, ho,n, z, and just started collecting standard scale and you think o gauge is expensive !!!!!

[@Newt1969]

For Lionmaster: 2019 and 2020 had Big Boy, SD80MAC, the Allegheny, and AC-12s. If they had sold decent, we would have had more the 3 years since. For smaller steam, this catalog alone had Berks, 2-6-2s , plus 2-4-2's for $250. That''s a pretty good year.

[@krtrains123]

Look for the early TMCC engines for good deals

[@krtrains123]

Another way to go is to install TMCC in pre TMCC engines

[@Dadified86]

Yeah I’m gonna be getting into converting some conventional engines to TMCC hopefully by late spring / early summer

[@DeadlySpoon12]

Lionel desperately needs entry level sets or just locomotives. I have several secondhand engines but they all need work and you never really know what you’re going to get. Trainz is great but if you get an engine that stops working randomly you’re kinda SOL. Not to mention upgrading them. I have a steam engine that doesn’t smoke but runs great otherwise with Railsounds 1.0 but finding parts for it is a pain!

[@Dadified86]

The entry-level stuff is still about $200-$400. Menards seems to have figured out how to sell a starter set even cheaper but you do get what you pay for.

[@johnblair8146]

How come you don't mention POSTWAR. No high tech BS and quality REPAIRABLE trains at decent prices. Heck, trains from the 1950s have better parts support than 5 year old Lionel.

[@Dadified86]

Mostly looking from my personal experience and the direction the newer stuff is headed. I don’t have any of the older stuff and all the new things can still run conventional. There certainly is a satisfaction to the simplicity and gimmick-free trains from before, but it’s not really relevant for new products in a catalog or filling the gap between starters and scale that this video focuses on.