WHICH PRIMARCH WAS TOLD THE TRUTH OF CHAOS? WHO DID THE EMPEROR TRUST?

[@cadian4thsanitationdivisio951]

The Lion having this dark and terrible secret that can't be shared with anyone really fits narratively with the way it foreshadows the Dark Angels and their own secrets.

[@KopitioBozynski]

Yeah, as the Lion said "men keep secrets for good reasons" and it definitely sounds like something the Emperor would agree with.

[@Not-Ken-Molestina]

Behavioral, I believe the Lion is most like Big E. So this certainly fits

[@Jackson558]

The Lion."Loyalty is it's own reward." He spent his childhood playing naked and alone with chaos beasts hunting and being hunted.

[@jamespeck30]

Playing being the operative word here

[@Axle2513]

@@jamespeck30 playing yet being responsible for their extinction.

[@licensed_beheader]

He was also being tempted from a young age by khorne or something so probably yes .

[@trikk9964]

Teenage Dorn crafting starships the galaxy had never seen... fails to impress. An adult Lion finally learning how to button a pair of trousers by the hand of the God Emperor... priceless.

[@Timasion]

I've narrowed it down to Corvus Corax, Lion El'Jonson, or Alpharius. Corvus knew about the warp, could resist it when the Emperor used it against him, and was able to go into the Warp, used his full warp power and not become corrupted. The Lion because the Emperor seemed to trust him more and he appears to be so incorruptible. He knew about the warp before the Emperor found him because of the library of books he found with the Knights of Lupus. This is the same library that Luther used to learn about Chaos. Alpharius because, if we're to believe his Primarch novel, he was with the Emperor since the beginning and was part of his secrets.

[@guillermomelendez7950]

I think you can argue against Alphariud knowing because in the HH novel legion when the cabal tells him about the whole business he doesn't seem to know about chaos and yet.

[@Timasion]

@@guillermomelendez7950 Very good point. I forgot about that. So, Alpharius is out.

[@TheKanetube]

The Knights of Lupus Library

[@chrislyne377]

@@guillermomelendez7950 that's exactly what he'd *want* you to think 😉

[@UnRu1eD]

@@guillermomelendez7950 I’d argue that Russ knew, considering he literally Said Russ is the most Loyal of his sons. Plus, being the Enforcer reinstates that fact. Russ was also, highly against Magnus dabbling with The Warp and such books of knowledge.

[@Duppyman695]

I think Alpharius could of been told about Chaos and would explain why he was kept secret and why The Alpha Legion 'pretend' to be traitors! Double agents of The Emperor!

[@AcerbusFive]

Yesssssssssss I am Alpharius

[@jkgf4671]

Alpharius was always on Terra and was raised by Emperor and Malcador, so I think he is the most likely to be told about it.

[@tappingninja]

*Omegon

[@thraxdownff]

Absolutely

[@HammarPwnsYourFace]

Hydra Dominatus, brothers

[@thewayfarer8849]

The Lion, because of direct engagement with Chaos. The Khan and Lorgar, Russ to an extent and Magnus have philosophies about the Warp. But not Chaos. The nephalia tried to attack the Lion for years, if not decades going by Crusade. Konrad and almost all of them suffered at the hands of pitiless cultures. Mortarion might have been told, but I think his arbitrary hatred for things and lack of trustworthiness walled him off, he would not have been trusted given the fact that he throttled Malcador and going by Lantern's Light clearly verbally backtalked the Emperor. Mortarian hated psykers and aliens, and had great physical resilience. Lion wanted to exterminate the Chaotic corruption tainting the ecosystem, he was mentally resilient. It's not about being special, more The Emperor had no choice, and trusting Lion is part of the newer lore. If he was not resistant, the Great Beasts would have eaten him. Chaos is to the Lion what Asirnoth is to Ferrus, or Dark Eldar are to Vulkan. Deamons specifically. All Primarchs had it tough, and Chaos messed with them. But Chaos wanted Lion *dead* from childhood as much as the Eldar wanted Angron dead when they attacked him.

[@cadian122]

Your most likely right.. Its the Lion

[@UnnyAthyArchy]

Corax 100%. Emp straight up told him. -- ‘I must return to the webway, my absence will be sorely missed. That is all the help I can offer you.’ ‘The webway?’ ‘A portal into the warp, of sorts,’ said the Emperor. ‘This is my great endeavour. Beyond the veil of reality, the forces of the Imperium wage war with a foe just as deadly as the Legions of Horus. Daemons.’ Corax knew the word, but did not understand why the Emperor had used it. “Daemons?’ said Corax. ‘Insubstantial creatures of nightmare? I thought they were a fiction.’ ‘No, in truth they do exist,’ said the Emperor. ‘The warp, the other-realm we use to travel, is their home, their world. Horus’s treachery is greater than you imagine. He has aligned himself to the powers of the warp, the so-called “Gods of Chaos”. The daemons are now his allies and they seek to breach the Imperial Palace from within. My warriors fight to hold back the incursion, lest Terra be overrun with a tide of Chaos.’ -Excerpt From Deliverance Lost

[@Marcher1977]

E told Corax much later, not from the start.

[@ThorOdinson]

15:00 I think this supports the idea of the Primarch’s being given “god souls” from the warp, and that of all the Primarch’s, the Emperor was extremely familiar with that particular god soul and maybe had even known it on a personal level for a long time. He got along way too well with Russ when he met him. It was almost like meeting an old friend.

[@ImprovmanZero]

We prefer LDS but it is accurate

[@Dadecorban]

Russ is like that

[@bobakrabii6220]

My money is on either the Lion, due to his upbringing he already had an idea about Chaos, Alpharius because at the time big E thought he was his only son left when first found so probably felt like he had to tell him, or one of the missing primarchs and that resulted in their disappearance or destruction.

[@fbussier80]

Remember, when Big E was told about Alpharius turning, he said : "Alpharius... my son, what chance did you give my dream?"

[@RH-mw1nc]

@@fbussier80 Alpharius, but what about Omegon

[@TheRovingRebel61]

To me the answer is definitely the Lion, as he grew up hunting down and having direct encounter after direct encounter with creatures of Chaos, something no other Primarch can claim. Definitely fits the bill for "Resistant from the very beginning". Also, the Lion is arguably the Emperor's most trusted son, from all the snippets about their relationship. The Emperor has absolute faith in the Lion like no other. It is the Lion who is entrusted with the most forbidden secrets in the Emperor's arsenal, nobody else - not even Leman Russ - can make that claim. Except of course the Lion would never claim that because he is the single best primarch when it comes to keeping secrets, one of the very things that keeps him distant from his brothers. Also the Lion killing the Chaplain who questioned his sudden authorization of psykers seemingly against the will of the Emperor makes a lot more sense when you consider that the Lion knew better than anyone else the threats of Chaos. Nobody else had his level of mutual trust with the Emperor. The Lion has access to all kinds of terrible forbidden secret weapons the Emperor wouldnt allow anyone else, even the primarchs, to even know existed let alone actually use. When you consider that the Lion is basically intended as an answer for worst-case scenarios, I think encountering Chaos like that is a worst-case scenario that the Emperor would have prepared him for - giving the Lion the forbidden knowledge neccessary on how to best combat it if it ever came up. The Emperor is of course all about contingency plans. Hence the Lion's willingness to suddenly break the edict of Nikea - he knew for a fact that he and the Emperor were on exactly the same page. The Lion's Primarch novel explains that his later encounters with the Emperor tended to be awkwardly quiet, as they both had total confidence in each other and the Lion didn't feel much need for conversation as he already fully understood everything he needed to. Where other primarchs had burning anger or disagreements or at least questions for the Emperor (much stemming from their ignorance of the Emperor's enigmatic plans and goals) the Lion didn't have any questions. He already knew the answers.

[@marcustrajan4873]

Valdor was also present at that conversation. It was a great conversation where Uncle Malc also lets the three know that one of their other bros (stomp, stomp) was in the Palace. BTW, my guess is Lion, Corax or the Twins

[@Cornerboy73]

I'm betting on Lion. There was a line in his primarch book which noted how he didn't like being in the company of psykers because they might "see what he really was". I think he knows full well what he is and is totally comfortable with it. He also grew up on Caliban with its many chaos monsters stalking the forests. I can't see how that wouldn't come up when speaking with his father. No doubt the Emperor would have made a very close assessment of his newfound son who grew up around these beasts on a world full of chaos taint. Seeing Lion's resistance may have spurred him to divulge certain secrets.

[@jkgf4671]

"they might "see what he really was" " Well that could also means that he knows that Emperor can read their minds so he thinks that other psykers could do the same.

[@Warrior_warlock]

That plus it would add to the explanation why the Emperor always trusted him, despite Malcador's doubts. Although I do not like how this recent confirmation the Lion was always loyal detracts from the Dark Angels original lore design.

[@Aaron-io8vw]

Other things point to the Lion being true one inckude. The Watchers in the Dark being anti chaos. They are depicted as having made an afreement with the Lion during the Caliban days. He captures the fortress nod the Knights of Lupus for their Library which is the largest repository of lore about the Great beasts and the nature of what is going Caliban. This happens a year before the Imperium finds Caliban. His interaction with Kairos fateweaver

[@weediestbroom]

My first guess too. Might also explain why Emps says Lion is the most loyal.

[@jkgf4671]

@@weediestbroom When exactly Emperor said that Lion is the most loyal? If anything his actions points to Russ having the bigger trust.

[@danielbob2628]

If it was one of the Lost Primarchs, Malcador wouldn't have mentioned him at all. I think we can rule them out entirely.

[@MWH12085]

I don't think Malcador is being completely honest about The Lost Primarchs because of just that. Gotta keep up the act, otherwise it could jeopardize everything.

[@StoneStraiff]

Right

[@Airier]

Personally, I think it is most likely Omegon (not alpharius), due to the [SPOILER WARNING] -Due to the later reveals Omegon was with the emperor since Terra, before the crusade (and other details).

[@doomguy9049]

Yeah far more likely than Lionel Johnson

[@silversurfer8818]

Either Corax, the only Primarch to embrace his naturally born gifts to the fullest or Konrad, his foresight made him so attuned to the future he knew how the Emperor would end. However, his potential knowledge set him on a path that Malcador would deem too dangerous for the other primarchs to follow. Which is why he stated, no one is immune, only resistant.

[@ryansauchuk7290]

Corax gained his new form by embracing his Warp nature. Which makes me wonder what guilliman would become if he did the same. I mean would be be able to dissolve into a mass of Excel spreadsheets?

[@BDL3035]

@@ryansauchuk7290 Ever seen the movie Limitless?

[@zaqmorningstar7055]

@@ryansauchuk7290 A bill that gets held up in Congress?

[@hammer1349]

I believe it was when corax sought out the emperor for the research to rebuild his legion. The emperor discussed chaos and its nature in the short time he was able to give him at the time

[@AnthonyConstable]

Corax was my first thought too...

[@williamsharpe679]

I think Ferrus is a good pick during the feat of iron story, Ferrus is leading the Morlocks through a valley or gorge and Santar says something along the lines of it’s like the fake ghost story’s about medusa. Ferrus responds by saying that their were ghost on Medusa. A little lack luster yeah but in my mind I think the Gorgon at least knew about chaos to some extent.

[@saltyshackles5227]

The Lion. Kind of hard to hide Chaos from a Primarch that grew up on a Chaos infested feudal death world 😂 He also goes on to own Kairos Fateweaver, a demon that can see the future and realises he can't turn The Lion no matter what. RIP BIG BIRD, BACK TO SESAME STREET FOR YOU! 👌🏻🦁🗡🐔🩸💀 (Also what makes this deeper is Cats hunt and eat birds, there are other layers to this encounter that hit deep).

[@dancable3372]

I would think magnus he gave his eye too save his legon long before any of the Hersey and he used too fly through the warp with the emperor and the emperor warned him about diving too deep..you don't think magnus asked him why?? I believe magnus was dealing with tnzeach from the start

[@ThomasFishwick]

I subscribe to the proposal that Alpharious was indeed the first Primarch found. As such I think it would be him Remember he described himself, several times as the secret and the keeper of secrets. There’s just too many coincidences and half truths when the others talk of him not to see he was meant for a completely different game than the rest of his brothers

[@Grubnar]

"Alpharius was not the first Primarch to be found ... because he was never lost! But I think you are right about it being him. He knew!

[@TK-qg5tf]

No he never knew. Look up the novel legion. He finds out in that

[@BobbieBalldo]

Damn that Curze theory is so good. Seems to fits well into his story, helping further explain his descent in a tragic and sympathetic way.

[@dartzspade8622]

Ultimate loyalist

[@otaku1and1harem1god]

lion seems to be the most reasonable one i can think of, he was the one trusted with more of the emperors secrets then any other, has been shown to be near immune to psychic powers as well as the fact that caliban and more importantly the order had records of chaos though vague meaning lion had the info one way or another

[@genghiscarnage4015]

First thought was The Lion. But an outside bet on Vulcan. His humanity and desire to protect. Seems like pious enough intentions to make a Sister proud.

[@Codoxnz]

Conrad Curze, and like Kairos who knew the truth of all things, it drove him insane. It's why he hated psykers. It's why he destroyed his homeworld - they fell after he gave them a chance at redemption - and why he felt so betrayed by the Emperors reaction to destroying a planet full of Chaos heretics. Think of all the depravity that Conrad visited upon the planets he brought into compliance, he was a prime candidate for the Ruinous Powers, but we're never shown any time where the powers attempt to lure Conrad. Conrad grew up in a literal hell-hole, and stayed a type of pure through all of that. It seems too noble-bright to have been an already good-boy-Primarch, and 30-40k is anything but that.

[@a.greywolfe4056]

I truly think it was Alpharius, because he was found on Terra, meaning he was placed where his nature truly needed to be to grow up (like the others on different worlds) and be under Malcador's tutelage. He was even given a mission to protect or ensure the Imperium's survival even if it went (seemingly) against the will of the Emperor Himself.

[@Judge_of_Anubis05]

I'd say the Lion was the one with the most knowledge of chaos. I'd go as far as saying the Emperor trusted the Lion the most out of all the primarchs. I once saw a person make an assessment that the Emperor treats the Lion almost as if he's a custodes. Bar Malcador the Custodes are the ones the Emperor trusts even above most if not all other Primarchs save the Lion.

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

Arguably I would say Corvus simply due to a scene where he turns to the emperor and says something along the lines of I know your true nature and the emperor is like choose your next words wisely

[@Uelimitemgwehrli]

I go with the lion, could be the reason he never bonded with the others

[@RPknight101]

As much as I want to say Lion El Johnson or Alpharius….I think it’s Ferrus Manus… I can’t put my finger on why though but there’s a gut feeling there unlike the other primarchs IMO. (The only two exceptions being Lion & Alpharius)

[@marsmech]

I find it really hard to believe Magnus could spend so much time exploring the warp psychically without stumbling upon chaos.

[@kelman727]

Not least because... ...that’s what happened.

[@Marcher1977]

He's the one that would need to be told. He's the obvious choice. The only choice, really. Whether someone turned or not is irrelevant.

[@isaaccaudillo680]

It was corax during his first meeting with the emperor Big E tells him about the warp immediately

[@maxstr]

Funny how in Siege of Terra novels, Dorn, Sanguinius, and Khan all learn of the webway and demons and their response is basically "wish you told us sooner, but ok". Yet Horus and friends reacted like NO DADDY WHY YOU LIED TO US

[@GameTech1270]

My money is on the Lion. Dude looks at Daemons and they just fall over dead. He’s known about his own Psyker abilities since childhood and growing up on Caliban, I don’t think any Primarch save maybe Lorgar had spent more time in the presence of Chaos. And yet he, along with Russ are seen by the emperor as being some who will never turn from humanities path.

[@2ndhendrix631]

Rho, man you're quick becoming my fav 40k yter. I love your consistent no-nonsense style and the topics you pick are SSS-Tier

[@squidwardhumor8502]

I am betting on Lion El Johnson or Alpharius Omegon

[@AvgJoeHobbyShow]

The Khan actually knew, I read/heard an excerpt somewhere of him having a huge argument with the Emperor over the “Imperial Truth”

[@doomguy9049]

Yeah it’s in his “Primarchs” novel

[@kelman727]

Malcador...

[@Velsero]

Jaghatai knew/suspected, but the Emperor didn't **tell** him.

[@CMZaphiel]

I just hope it's one of the still living loyal Primarchs... imagine it being the Lion or Corax. Think about them coming back, talking to Roboute and revealing this "secret" the emperor shared with them. What an incredible conversation that could be...

[@cryamistellimek9184]

It couldn’t be Corax, the revelation of what he was devastated him.

[@CMZaphiel]

@@cryamistellimek9184 Maybe I missed something about him reacting to Demons and the Chaos Gods, but as far as I remember Corax was devastated about the betrayal of Horus and the shame it brought to ALL Astartes.

[@cryamistellimek9184]

@@CMZaphiel Corax believed that he was fully of the material world. When it was revealed that he was in fact part warp creature he basically vowed himself into a suicide mission. When he learned of demons and the like it was a completely crushing revelation.

[@CG-yh6js]

It

[@SebastianA.W.]

have you seen dem fangs? dem wulfen? that looks like a HIGHLY warp addled Primarch.. the wolf king is strong, but a LONG shot at beign immune to chaos meddling in both geneseed and his own aspect.

[@MongoBongo271]

There were a few primarchs big E knew would never fall, I think this most trusted of the emperor thing is space wolf pride. if you read the lions book the dark angels claim they are the most trusted, and big E says the lion wouldn't betray him when malchador questions his loyalty. But Russ did say he wishes big E told them so I don't see it being him, not to mention Russ isn't one for secrets.

[@trajanfidelis]

I want to say Alpharius, but i honestly think one of the lost primarchs or Corax is the most likely

[@plasmahdtv]

You are being a bit sneaky with some of the things you say. Its important that you put some of the episodes in context. Yes Lion was about to orbital bombard the planet sang was on, but only because he was very fed up with Sang before they travelled, for not performing his duty as regent of imperium secundus, then Sang went unannounced into Lions flagship while he was gone and took the imprisoned Konrad with him, without telling Lion about it. This naturally pissed off Lion. Lion realizes that these incidents were all set in motion by the ruinous powers and he chin checked himself and immediately went on to warn Guiliman about this. Shortly after Lion goes in to save Sang, as he was trapped inside the warp with no way out, risking his life to save him, which he did. But lets get back to the matter. Malc expresses that the one who was told, had his mettle tested and could resist. The only primarch who had his mettle tested and was able to resist was the Lion. Sang says that Lion was always on his toes, always watching and observing, this could explain why.

[@Ownedyou]

Lion is most likely the one. The 1st were the prototype and reflected all legions in some fashion. Magnus def had no clue though!

[@claytonwise5547]

I would put Vulkan near the top of my list. I can't think of any time he has had any temptation or dealings with the "choas gods".

[@Subject_Keter]

I think it was the 2 or 11, they could of fell not due to Chaotic Taint but they thought one or more xeno group could help them win.

[@jkgf4671]

Then Malcador would add "and that's why he's gone and forgotten". Especially considering that Khan was against erasing memories of the missing primarchs.

[@MWH12085]

One thing I've wondered was did The Emperor actually dislike Xenos or is it just Imperium propaganda that popped up post Horus Heresy? After all, he was using Eldar tech for the Webway project (tech they nixed off The Old Ones).

[@licensed_beheader]

@@MWH12085 He did , during the age of strife when humanity was at its weakest the xenos that had peace treaties with mankind started attacking human societies. Also most xenos at their peak express a desire to subjugate humanity and lets face it if the eldar return to peak power they will attack mankind.

[@leopedroza4461]

I think it may have actually been Ferrus Manus. I think it was in "Feat of Iron" or maybe "Gorgon of Medusa" but Ferrus comments on the The imperial truth as being a convenient lie.

[@Mr.Monacle]

I mean… A lot of the Primarchs were aware that the Imperial truth was a convenient lie. It was actually the cause of the big rift between the Emperor and the Kahn

[@jamesespinosa690]

@@Mr.Monacle Very good point!

[@jamesespinosa690]

The fact that the Ad Mech was allowed to worship the Emperor as a God, as well as the Word Bearers for over 100 years. It doesn't take a galaxy brain to understand that it's a lie.

[@MWH12085]

Ferris wasn't the only Primarch to think the Imperial Truth was bullshit. Pretty sure Jaghati basically called it that.

[@bobbytank4947]

I know this video wasn’t only about Manus, but I am loving the videos you are putting out about him. I would love to see a Primarch week about him.

[@mycommentpwnz]

Vulkan values empathy and well-being INFINITELY MORE than the other loyalist Primarchs. Consequently, the LOYALISTS could potentially be seduced by glory, ambition, power, vanity, and pride. Also, its said Vulkan spent many years on Terra, after his discovery, this could be a hint. On top of that, he is a PERPETUAL. Seems unlikely someone who routinely goes to the afterlife wouldn't know what dwells there! VULKAN4PRESIDENT!

[@eyeof3ndr364]

If I remember correctly, Horus told Loken that the Emperor told him a little bit about Chaos in "Horus Rising", but I don't think he got the full explanation.

[@edojaalexander]

I believe he was talking about the warp more generally. At the time most people saw the warp the same way we view the sea. It can be dangerous sure but in no way malicious. Horus was saying that the warp can have a dangerous effect on people when it gets in your head. I don't think he was aware of the ruinous powers.

[@jamesespinosa690]

If I remember correctly, he even tells Loken that they are aware of the entities in the warp. That they are dangerous. And that's why it's highly highly classified information. That's why he knew what happened to Jubal. Here's a synopsis from Lexicanum " To ease Loken's mind, Horus confides his understanding of what happened: Jubal was possessed by an entity of the Warp - they may be called daemons, but in reality they are xenos like any other, just more insidious. Loken is disbelieving, since they are all taught that only psykers, such as Librarians, are vulnerable to warp-entities, but Horus explains that there are places in the galaxy - the Whisperheads are apparently one of them - where the barrier between the Materium and the warp are unusually thin." I've long thought about this. Horus at least, straight up knows enough about the Warp that in my mind, he should be able to rationalise how the Dark Gods exist.

[@Devilsnightforlife]

My money is on Konrad. He must have seen the Chaos Gods intervening in his visions, and either asked the Emperor about it directly, or the Emperor sensed Konrad's visions and so felt compelled to tell him the truth about them.

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

Lost and the Damned does have a sweet spot for me, as it is my first actual read in W40k. I knew the rough story until then before, but getting into the story was a great decision without any doubt.

[@RH-mw1nc]

You didn't even start with the Solar War?

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

@@RH-mw1nc I went back afterwards. Lost and the Damned was a fairly spontaneous buy and they didn't have the Solar War on hand 😂

[@bloodwolfkoji]

Now my top ones would be; and I maybe a bit biased on this but 1. Russ, as its stated in Wolfsbane he both was very well aware that the Imperial Truth was outright lies; but at the same time he fervently believed and fought to defend it. As he grew up being raised upon stories of spirits and malevolent monsters and was well aware of an 'Underverse' as well as the connection of Fenris to the Warp. And so given the time Russ spent with both the Emperor and Malcador; the question of the existence of Chaos would have more than likely been brought up. 2. Lion; as stated Caliban was haunted by Warp tainted creatures and essentially under the puppet strings of Chaos. Where Lion had spent most of his childhood armed with nothing but his wits and his strength battling said corrupted creatures and still came out sane, and upon reuniting with the Emperor would have more than likely broached the subject as he'd have wanted to know the cause of why Caliban was so tainted. 3. It would have been Alpharius which-memes aside was both more deeply aware of the effects of the Warp as the Alpha Legion actively researched the Warp and its effects on psykers. However as of his Primarch novel; while he is very much aware there was something more out there aside from what the Emperor or Malcador had been sharing; such as accidentally stirring up a Khornate Chaos cult or hearing daemons tugging at his and the minds of his Legionnaires. He always seemed to almost discard it and push it to the back of his mind. Instead it'd have to be Corax as with his ideal of having the Raven Guard master stealth tactics and infiltrate the worlds of tyrants like the ones who tormented Lycaeus/Kiavahr he would have been among the first to see various atrocities and the most obvious signs of Chaos and upon bringing this intelligence to the Emperor could've likely been shared the truth to in confidence. As Corax would know exactly what to look for and how exactly to deal with it, something he wouldn't have shared with the other Primarchs due to his own aloof nature.

[@jonsmith1405]

I think it was Horus he was the first corrupted by them. And power corrupts and knowledge is power.

[@ENJager]

Of the Primarchs covered here, my first guess would be The Lion, especially if the Dark Angels penchant for secrecy existed pre-heresy as well, suggesting they were hiding the secret of the chaos gods. Second best guess would be Konrad, who had by far the most vivid psychic flashes and more than likely glimpsed chaos, confronted the big E and was told to keep it hush, hastening his insanity.

[@phillipjmead]

So far I’d say the Lion. He’s been told many secrets. He keeps them too. His loyalty was never questioned by the emperor.

[@maciekwilkosz6377]

Wasn't Peter Turbo seeing Eye of Terror all the time ? With such a funky trait he would definetly ask Emps about it and it's not much of a stretch telling him about it if he already seen it with his very own eyes... Otherwise I'm betting on Russian Lemon :) . It fits just too well.

[@miguelperez9906]

On The Who knew I’d say it was alpherious/omegon the whole knowing the fate of the universe was dependent on weather humanity existed if not due to chaos kinda made it feel like he/they always knew about chaos ahd suspected such an outcome. You know what I really hope to learn about is how lion l Jonson felt when meeting Sanguineous and the now angel themed blood angels. I mean would be be annoyed at seeing the demigod sibling version of I’m not copying you I’m not copying you.

[@Ishkaga02]

The OG writers were pretty damn lazy in designing the legions to be distinct. Two with angel iconography, two with hands as iconography, and at least three with dog / wolf imagery (Luna Wolves, Space Wolves, War Hounds). Was pretty confusing to me originally.

[@TheLegPumpkin]

They really were, and to some degree still are, there are 3 if not four characters in the lore nicknamed "the Red Angel".

[@MrDarkweaver]

In my opinion the two most likely candidates are either Alpharius, or one of the two Lost Primarchs. Alpharius, if we are to believe his novel Head of the Hydra was found first by the Emperor, even before Horus. That would have given him ample time to have that conversation. There is also a comment, and for the life of me I can't remember exactly where it's from, but it's made by the Emperor when he was talking about the sons which had turned traitor, and says something to the effect of Alpharius not giving his plan enough time. This would suggest to me that perhaps he shared his plans to create the webway with Alpharius very early, explaining that travel through the Warp is dangerous because of Chaos. Alpharius/Omegon turned to the Cabal's vision of the future, thinking that because Horus had rebelled, the Emperor's plans were now dashed, and knowing the problems of the Chaos Gods was one of the determining factors in Alpharius siding with Horus. Or one of the two Lost Primarchs, possibly the one referred to as "The Forgotten" was told early on by the Emperor, and his reaction to that was so negative, that the lost primarch refused to fight for the Emperor, and basically turned his back on the Imperium feeling it was built on lies. The Emperor not wanting to kill one of his own sons outright, basically confines this primarch to incarceration beneath the Imperial Palace, as has recently been hinted at, and his legion absorbed into other legions primarily the Ultramarines. All records of this primarch are expunged and everyone is told to forget him, hence "The Forgotten".

[@maurogiusti695]

Everything point at Lion El Johnson. 1st because since the beginning of his existence has been exposed to Chaos on Caliban and well we know how it ended up. But is during the Rangdan campaign that he shows how resilient is to any kind of lure/whispers, for example.

[@derekh6962]

I think Magnus is a good possibility. He remembers his talks with the Emperor before the scattering, had conversations with him through the warp before he was found on Prospero, and it would help explain Magnus' pride and arrogance when dealing with the warp

[@psychedashell]

Magnus lost an eye in his dealings with Chaos before Russ attacked Prospero.

[@BadWolfJK]

The fact that the lion grew up on a world with warp creatures and was given soul destroying weaponry by the Emperor... Along with a host of other reasons, such as his characteristics/secretive nature and his hesitance to work with psykers, the Lion's mental fortitude is exceedingly high.

[@xavierktolentino8373]

that would be Corvus Corax, as he was told of Chaos during the Emperor's first meeting with the Raven Lord, plus knowing that part of his physiology was of the warp, he unleashed his full potential within the Eye of Terror without succumbing to the effects of Chaos, and he kicked Daemon Prince Lorgar's behind

[@whichDude]

I can see it being Perturabo just because the guy's power is constantly seeing and being haunted by the Eye of Terror for his entire life. Just seems like something he might ask about to the Emperor or other Primarchs about this vision. Easiest way to shut him up to not talk to others about it would be to explain it to him.

[@themachine7534]

It was the lion because he dealt with chaos beasts from day 1 just called it something different when big E arrived .. i .e nephilim .

[@darkinnovator2479]

The Lion. Its hinted in four cases; 1) the Lion fought against Chaos corruption on Caliban, 2) his willingness to use Psykers without a moment of doubt in regard to Daemons despite the Edict of Nikea still being in effect, 3) the Lion also could not be turned by Kairos who can not only mind read but see the future, 4) the lack of surprise or confusion when he hears Guilliman come to the conclusion that their brothers were "turned by the Warp". Also, there is the apparent fact that the Emperor talks to the Lion plainly, as if speaking to his own Custodes, whom he told everything. Mix that with the Lion's clear violent attitude being the equivalent of a Primarch Inquisitor, and my money's on the Lion. With Perturabo, its implied that the Emperor knew he'd fall. He looks upon him with sad eyes, which implies he has written him off already. Its a reaction we sometimes see with his meeting with the future traitors.

[@seandlax9]

"here is the apparent fact that the Emperor talks to the Lion plainly" This is a big one, and it's because the Lion is most like how Big E truly is. IE, Sanguinius represents how Big E wants the galaxy to perceive him, while the Lion is his true self that comes out in privacy.

[@darkinnovator2479]

@@seandlax9 Indeed, as Old Man Reacts puts it in his first "Mistakes of the Emperor" video: the Emperor is socially unable to understand people for their individual wants, and only understands their collective need. The Emperor is so old, that a common human being cannot comprehend the way he thinks. The biggest flaw of the Horus Heresy series (besides actually ruining the mystery itself) is the fact human beings tried to interpret him as one would understand a human being, which is an act often psychologically flawed at the best of times even for normal people. The Lion meanwhile is akin to what an immortal being would be like, completely alien to our social quirks and morality. Its really funny, the Lion, in that even his own sons that catch brief glimpses of his social awkwardness second guess themselves and brush it aside as a trick of the mind when his mask's back in place.

[@Axle2513]

A few points that where left out in regards to the Lion, when you mention the exceptions given to Russ you forget to mentiom that the Lion was intrusted with the most horrifying weapons of old night nobody even Horus was aware the 1st had them. If we talk about exposure to chaos i don't think none of the other brothers where exposed to it any more than the Lion. In the core of Caliban itself lay the spirit of caliban a chaos entity of great power the great beasts where chaos entities the Knights of Lupus worshipped the Spirit of Caliban unaware they where worshipping Chaos. The Lion when he vanquished the order their books and texts the Lion ordered to be destroyed (likely aware of their contents) Luther on the other hand managed to smuggle some of them to his personal library which began his fall towards the temptations of chaos. The Emperor having visited Caliban would have likely sensed the chaos corruption but also sensed his Son's resistance to its touch. The Lion also in his encounter with the fate weaver was the master of his own mind able to trap and taunt the demon. Then there's the Tuchulcha Engine in which the Lion subdued to serve him and secretly used to navigate the warp, to harness and utilise such heresy I would assume would require a level of understanding of the immaterial and of its dangers. In fact when you think about it the DA's have some wierd unexplainable stuff like the fortress fragments from caliban which emminate strange shielding power. For the Dark Angels to harness all this yet be completely ignorant of its origin doesn't sound right ignorance would have led them to corruption but let's face it the majority of fallen who followed Luther where fresh recruits and not those who where time served under the Lion. It really hard to believe the Lion wasn't aware of the forces of chaos and the warp he would have certainly learned of its corruption when he defeated the Knights of Lupus and would have likely led to some questions to his father in which the Emperor felt he should reveal the truth of the chaos God's to his son. Two things stand out the Emperor utilised aspects of the warp and so did the Lion which is only possible I guess when you know enough about it and diciplined enough to avoid the dangers.

[@jamesespinosa690]

My money is on primarch #2. My argument against it being the Lion is pretty basic. The Emperor wouldn't/didn't need to tell the Lion. Because he already knew. As you say, he grew up on a minor deamon world after all. He already gathered texts from the opposing order that was studying them. The reason why i think it's Primarch number 2, is because it gives us a rich, compelling reason for his disappearance. With the Chaos gods corrupting #11, and using him to wack #2. This gives us a compelling reason as to why the Emperor decided to purge them from the records. Furthermore, the first legion was given those weapons before finding their primarch. They were MVPs for the first say 50 years of the crusade after all.

[@TheRovingRebel61]

I think if it was the Lion it would also explain why he was quick to kill the Chaplain that questioned his sanctioning of psyker uses. To the Chaplain, it seemed like the Lion was going against the Emperor's will at Nikea. But the Lion knew the true threat of Chaos, and the Emperor's absolute trust in him. In keeping with him and his legions theme as being the "final" solution for worst case scenarios, the Lion knew exactly what his role was and so was immediately willing to use what was ultimately just another forbidden weapon in his arsenal - his psykers.

[@EmperorNortonII]

I think it was Konrad.The one thing not mentioned by Wolf Lord Rho is that Istvaan, when he saw Lorgar and the Gal Vorbak, he called them corrupt. I think he truly knew what a daemon was and what Lorgar and his Legion had done.

[@andrewsilver9730]

It was ferrus. He's actually AI that emperor thought was too cute to kill

[@wrestlingguy8722]

The Konrad art you found is fantastic!

[@akirby2886]

Great analysis of the lore. You really are a great source of lore. Thank you 😁👍🏻

[@Darksmirk1]

I think I’m sold on Kurz being the one who knew but ultimately denying them; ironically growing mad anyway.

[@maxhaly1612]

I think Ferrus could be the one, hence why the demon in fulgrim's sword forced him to kill Ferrus, because the ruinous powers knew they would never be able to break him, so they saw him as a threat that needed to be eliminated.

[@LCliffhanger]

The fact that Khan and Leman were "alive to the dangers" probably just means they were naturally suspicious and thus, resistant to corruption, because they would be too skeptical and mistrusting of anything that would smack of warp fuckery. Also while I think it could be cool if a lost Primarch was the one to be told and that linked to their fall in some way but could also be a bit of a waste. I think it has to be the Lion as a natural resistance would also fit with his growing up in the jungles of Caliban and could also link to why he banned the book that ended up corrupting Luther, he could have had the book locked up because of a natural mistrust/resistance or because he fully understood the threat of it. Ferrus would be a cool idea but it would also be a bit of a waste unless GW actually decides to do anything with his character in 40k or expand on him and his brothers further with a great crusade series.

[@stewartthorpe2533]

Love these lore videos that focus on questions like this

[@samhobbs9116]

Lion Lion Lion Lion Lion Lion. Not sure if I made my point yet but yea, It was the Lion all day long

[@heatherordonez1490]

I agree with your assessment so far. I would really think that if it were the Khan, he only lied because he realized it could cause a rift in the "friendship" with his brothers. Same for most of the rest of them, except Fulgrim. He would have bragged about knowing something his brothers didn't. 🤷‍♀️ just my opinion.

[@tappingninja]

Omegon was/is trusted with such secrets, only he truly knows his Father’s grand plan...

[@Alastair_]

I'd say the Lion would be most likely for this. He literally raised himself in a chaos monster infested forest and still came out one of the most loyal of all Primarchs.

[@Ally.Cat.252]

Was it chaos infested? Or did it just have animals, monsters, beasts etc?

[@duchevet]

@@Ally.Cat.252 No it is more or less confirmed that the entity within Caliban was a product of chaos I believe, and what was on the surface was its offspring.

[@Maecii]

@@Ally.Cat.252 Well, the Ouroboros was inprisoned in Caliban and corrupted the surface and it is related to the Tuchulcha machine and the Plagueheart. Ouroboros infested indeed the beasts and made ,for example, the Calibanite Lions

[@lukehamilton2900]

To add more evidence to it possibly being the Lion, some of the lore implies he was alone in the forests of Caliban, facing off against the Great Beasts and Nephilim, for nearly a century. No other primarch (save Magnus perhaps) can claim to have had as much exposure to whispers of Chaos before meeting the Emperor.

[@blacklanner5886]

One of the last primarchs was a naval leader and called "Void Warriors." He knew about Chaos because of his intention to focus on Void Travel. GW released an image with all of the legion names and the lost legions having their names obscured by broken glass. It was a short name.

[@VectorGhost]

Is this true?

[@JoacinoDaGona]

II or XI would be my best guess. Of the known primarchs, I would go with Roboute Guilleman, followed by the Lion. I would have said Khan, but he can be excluded from the list. Of the traitors, I would only consider Mortarion as a candidate, due to his tutelage under his adoptive parrent. He probably had already a good picture of the warp, before Big E arrived and thus, giving him the complete picture would be the better choice than having him operating on half-knowledge and guesswork. Also, Alpharius, because Alpharius.

[@tomsimpkins1211]

I believe it is Corax, hence why he now has more control of his warp powers now, and have less become a demon or psyker and more of a being of the warp. He had knowledge, and a natural ability to resist it, so when he finally decided to use these powers, he remained himself and true to his design.

[@edwardroose9183]

I’m going out there on this one. I say Alpharious/Oregon…. Here me out before you flame me. If we take their book as half truths even, then there’s a high likelihood that alpharious was the fist primarch to be found. He would have had more time with the emperor and malcador, more time to learn, more secrets. He was also taught personally by malcador how to use his warp abilities. Not to mention the open question as to how alparious was able to remain on terra, even if the soul split story is true. Either way you have a very strong case for the ability to resist chaos from the beginning. Remember also that alphariou/Omegon are designed to be the ultimate infiltrators, spies, and keepers of secrets. In that regard I see also another strong case, mainly because you wouldn’t be able to keep the secret, also because they WILL dig to find the truth, no matter how deeply buried the truth is. It’s literally in their nature. Now, fast forward 10,000 years…. And there is still the open question as to whether or not the alpha legion is loyal or not. Sometimes they act against the imperium, sometimes against chaos, and no one knows the end game. What can be said is that they show no signs of being corrupted by the warp. That I can remember they are the only "traitor" legion to show no signs of corruption. Other legions have shown obvious signs, sometimes it’s a change of armor, sometimes more severe changes are apparent. If the alpha legion shows no signs of chaos corruption, then how resistant are alpharious and omegon?…. Remember right before alpharious was killed? He was trying to say something. Something important. He didn’t fight with his full capability, he tried to talk. Before his head separated from his shoulders, I can easily imagine "I’m not a traitor, my plan is…." Coming out. Ok guys, poke holes lol

[@walterTbaggins]

Angron. Would make a great confessional: even if Angron was somehow able to listen and understand who could he possibly tell? He's already a frothing maniac - babbling about dark Gods and a mirror universe filled with daemons probably wouldn't even be the weirdest thing he'd come out with that week.

[@paulsegers1880]

The Khan makes comments to Malcador about the truth about daemons and "the spirit world" being withheld in the lie that is the Imperial Truth; it seems like he knew at least some things of chaos

[@ClaudiusDK]

I think Leman Russ is the most likely Primarch to have been warned first. So he can sniff out any corruption in his brothers incase he needed to stop them. (Which he might have done atleast once.) btw, the comment from Russ doesn't need to be retconned, since it could also mean that he is annoyed the Emperor hadn't warned the other primarchs sooner... "told us" as in "told all of us, not just me alone".

[@khazngray]

Perturabo grew up seeing the eye of terror and Im pretty sure big E knew. Thats a great sign of resistance more than his brothers. Plus the Emperor really trusted him and thought he could go it alone against unending enemies. Ferrus would be next up, but him not understanding what happened to Fulgrim would be my reason for saying it wasnt him. I dont think Malcador would have given the information away with The Khan right next to him if he was the one who knew. My real guess thus far is Vulcan because of the trust big E put into him with that device on the throne. He knew chaos wouldn't be able to sabatoge it through Vulcan.

[@gaijin8014]

My pick was Perturabo, he was always able to see the Eye of Terror and just kind of knew about it anyway. Also, i really hope he gets redemption from the Emperor in the on going story.

[@jodypschaeffer]

Ferrus Mannus getting taken out early reinforces the theory that he was the one. Chaos would want to take him out of the picture first.

[@BookieHeretic]

Vulkan. He needed to know so his death /rebirth was explained to him. He also needed to know because of the work on the throne /webway project he had to do.

[@Geyser39]

In the case of Jaghatai, I assume he could have absolutely known about the dangers of Chaos *before* meeting the Emperor--in which case, he wouldn't be lying, Emps wasn't the one who told him about Chaos.

[@ditmarvanbelle1061]

Might be Alpharius. I don't think it's Perturabo, even though your theory is sound and Perturabo could see the eye his entire life, he still went to probe Magnus about it. Which he wouldn't have done or wondered about if anyone told him what it meant.

[@tobiworldwide]

I feel like it could be alpharius. Omegon taking the half of him that could fall. And him being the first primarch found. And him being so sneaky with info.

[@LittleIAO]

The Lion. He needs no explanation I think but when he meets the Emperor they go to a tent and have a long and completely unknown conversation. When they emerge the Lion has declared for the Emperor with no fuss. He remains in harmony with his father and keeps his secrets. Also it is rumored the Rangdan Xenocide was in actuality a Warp incursion and at least one of the Lost Primarchs was purged due to attempting to fight in it. Pure speculation of course.

[@ramontorcque6151]

Before the video I had 5 primarchs in mind( The Lion, Conrad, mortarian, Corvus and Alpharius) now there are a lot more possibilities

[@calumknight9178]

What would be a good twist, Alpharius and Omegon or just one of them (compartmentalised, fits alpha legion to a t). And the alpha legions actions are all part of a plan. They did already seem to know a lot about chaos, the warp etc when grammaticus spoke to them and how to counter them.

[@jimminey-fooking-cricket4903]

Of this batch the Lion. The first so I'm thinking closet to the Emperor in a "son" setting. Nothing in his mind when a greater demon of Tzeentch come looking yeah Lads got some skills. Just a note on Konrad in his primarch novel he is giving two futures that can happen sadly since it was Nostramo he landed on it was the most brutal future he most often took. Mercy was weakness after all.

[@justinLaw5]

I'd say Corax, The Lion or Alpharious

[@AcerbusFive]

Alpharius or the Lion

[@cassianjpk9657]

I agree with some of the comments here, Personally I've always believed it was Corax! He's currently in the eye of terror hunting Lorgar and he is somehow accessing the Warp power within him and controlling it. I may be wrong but for me it points to Corax.

[@Leman.Russ.6thLegion]

IT WAS ME! I was #2. I always had wyrd preists around me. All my kind spit at Wyrd. I even went into the warp and learned to beat Horus from the wyrd

[@CrimsonTemplar2]

Not Lorgar, that’s for sure. Horus knew about the ruinous powers in Horus Rising. He explained the whisper heads to Loken. If not Horus, then I’d say the Lion because of his experience on Caliban.

[@kelman727]

Not so. It’s clear all he’s been told is that the warp contains another type of xenos. Simply that.

[@Micaenes]

I think the Lion. Yes, I'm a Dark Angel since 2001, but I cannot ignore the whole "spend your early life on a planet exposed to Chaos and stay loyal" and not say it's him.

[@johnn4134]

I think its Vulkan because of his empathy to humans and connection to dark eldar who know all about chaos and his long time with the emperor prior to joining his legion