Which TT models SHOULD Hornby Make? | Sam's 5 Year Plan

There's been a lot of talk about Hornby's choice of models in their TT scale, so here are some of my thoughts on it!
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0:00 Intro
2:18 Hornby's Strategy
4:04 My Strategy
5:46 Year 1
11:56 Year 2
16:24 Year 3
21:09 Year 4
25:02 Year 5
27:54 The Future

[@revolutiontrains]

Hello Sam, Some interesting ideas but I think there are considerations you have missed. Hornby were looking to build a new market and attract a new type of customer. This was the driving factor in the models they announced first. I suspect they find, as we do, that only a relatively small sector of the market care about distinct eras or areas. Many are happy to run their Flying Scotsman on a rake of Mk3 coaches or put lots of colourful private owner wagons behind a Class 66. Like you, they just like model trains. So they'll buy Flying Scotsman *and* a HST. But let's accept you have launched a range of LNER TT:120 models in Year 1. To make money your models will need to sell through in relatively short order. But by focussing on LNER you are immediately limiting your potential pool of customers, and on top of that you're asking them to commit to four locos and rakes of coaches and wagons in year 1. This would be a lot of money for most of us. Our experience is that customers appreciate gaps in the schedule so they can save. Also, Hornby do not operate in a vacuum. Following your plan, and not announcing a Class 66 until year whenever, would enable a rival to jump in and produce it. The same goes for the HST, Class 37, Mk2 + Mk3 coaches and the HAA coal wagon. I am surprised they did a Class 50 ahead of a 47 or 37, but this was probably because they'd already produced a OO model relatively recently and had the research package available. You have given yourself four locos per year. Honestly, I would be surprised if any model company could manage this and maintain a decent schedule of OO releases too. Frankly, I am amazed they have achieved what they have. Personally I think Hornby have done really well here; the range is balanced, with something for everyone, and the products are good. This is what has prompted my company, Revolution Trains, to offer our first product in TT:120 - a modern box wagon we have already done in N and OO to go with the upcoming Class 66. Ben Ando, Revolution Trains.

[@jcfx13]

Very cool to get the opinion of a rival manufacturer involved, thanks for taking the time. Would you say there is a general view within the industry that Hornby have done really well with TT 1:120? I see a lot of grumbling on forums but usually dismiss most of it as being typical pensioners with 0 perspective and a painfully narrow view of the world doing their thing, but it's still nice to hear from you that Revolution Trains have decided to get involved because you've been impressed by Hornby!

[@revolutiontrains]

@@jcfx13 Other manufacturers I know are certainly impressed with the quality of Hornby’s offerings so far. Whether they’ll take the plunge as well I don’t know!

[@speleokeir]

Hi Sam, A fun video, but personally I disagree with some of your choices and think Hornby's make more sense. They have clearly been chosen for the following reasons: 1) They picked their biggest sellers in OO. 2) Models where one tooling covers a range of eras and liveries. 3) Large models since the extra room makes it easier to design and quicker to produce in TT. 4) Models which sell well as part of a set. With the above in mind all Hornby's choices make perfect sense. Many of your choices make more sense in a second or third phase, NOT the initial launch. And in fact many of the models you suggest are in the pipeline for phases 3 and 4. A1/A3s and A4s HAVE to be the first choice, followed by HSTs. 08s are the perfect choice for a first shunter. Coronations also sell very well. The class 66 makes sense as they open up the European TT market and again are big and have a huge range of liveries. Goods engines don't sell as well and don't tend to have a good range of liveries mainly black, plus perhaps BR green and one other. Consequently choosing a goods engine in the first wave is poor strategy. Much better in the second wave with the Black 5 being the obvious choice as everyone loves them. Also an 08 goods set which I suspect may appear soon. One thing I would have changed was I'd have picked the class 37 as my first diesel as again they are very popular, cover many eras and liveries including steam with the class 47 next. It's possible Hornby intended to do this but perhaps there were delays and so the class 50 came out first, though that's speculation on my part. There is an argument that for coaches teaks should have been part of the first wave, but Pullmans and Mk1s make an awful lot of sense too. Another thing you're forgetting is Hornby are at the mercy of third parties and world events which can delay production and clearly did with TT. They were very unlucky with their launch being badly affected by covid shut downs in China, plus materials shortages. They clearly wanted to get more models out more quickly but were prevented from doing so. Perhaps they should have postponed the launch for another year, but things had probably progressed so far that wasn't a viable option.

[@triangttvstilligtt1184]

TT120 needs a Southern Railway loco and Great Western locos its all LNER or LMS. No restaurant coaches or blue and grey MK1 coaches.

[@SamsTrains]

Absolutely! Lots of gaps to fill! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@allenemery4665]

Not catering for southern or lms in 6 years is absurd​@@SamsTrains

[@paolomargini7904]

In the 8th year one of the Bulleid Pacifics and/or the Q1

[@triangttvstilligtt1184]

​@paolomargini7904 I hope not but it probably will be.😢

[@luisarts1870]

If i could get a new Southern engine from Hornby I would love either a Brighton Mogul (K Class) or a Brighton C2x 0-6-0

[@digitalcareline]

Class 37 - Almost a universal loco on regions, use and lifespan. The coaches are there. Wagons are no problem and you could expand them with more specific designs tying in each years liveries. Once you have the chassis you then have many years and livery variations (The same reasoning used for A1s,A3s and A4s). Easier to get mechanically sound - great weight, large motor and 12 pick ups - Also very popular with modellers (TT market is a blank sheet, OO market for Class 37s may be a little busy now).

[@andrewjames1190]

I think class 37 and 47 are kinda interchangeable in Sam's strategy. For the same reasons you state. Not sure which one I would prefer.

[@digitalcareline]

@@andrewjames1190 Yes - Both are relatively easy to achieve with work already done and licenses in place for OO- I wouldn't say it was one or the other - the Class 50 surprised me but seems to be going OK for them.

[@ChrisReader1989]

I had a model railway as a kid, but then many, many years away from the hobby. TT brought me back. I think your suggested line up would have worked better for getting existing fans of the hobby to consider TT, but I think Hornby’s strategy was aimed at bringing new people in, and it certainly worked for me. I really like having a broad (although limited) range to help me try and find the right era or region I want to commit to.

[@tommyb0887]

It worked for me too, just people love moaning because there’s a new scale.

[@ChrisReader1989]

@@tommyb0887 I’m sure it’s just a small (but vocal) minority, but I have encountered people who make their hatred for it very clear. Everyone is allowed an opinion, not saying they shouldn’t be allowed to dislike it, but as someone new / returning after a very long time away, it doesn’t always feel the most welcoming of places. Us TT folk will just have to stick together!

[@gamerfan8445]

​@ChrisReader1989 the only problem with TT is a lack of a goods locomotive.

[@ChrisReader1989]

@@gamerfan8445 yeah, it is taking a while for the range to be built up, but I understand why it takes so long. The way I see it though, TT has many years ahead of brand new tools and releases where ever announcement is something to get excited about, rather than what seems to happen a lot with other scales where some of the ‘big’ announcements are just rereleases with a different paint job

[@johnhmccauley]

If you look at the initial launch of locomotives they all shared the same body, just different chassis. Makes complete sense since they are learning how to produce as well. Only one body to test and get working. Then going after their best sellers? Going after new customers, so the sets are the starting point. Made a lot of sense. Not trying to go after the experienced modeler, most likely already into OO or N.

[@45degreesmodelling]

Crikey, there’s some negative people in the comments, do people moan at PECO or is it just popular to moan at Hornby? There’s a lot of assumptions with no factual evidence regarding how TT is doing. It’s a new scale, a full range is not going to appear over night and requires significant investment, something a lot of people certainly need reminding of. I look forward to the future of TT and will be coming back to this hobby in the true to scale gauge that is TT120.

[@ethmister]

@45degreesmodelling people hate change and new. TT look like going strong. Revolution trains are about TT

[@TheHoveHeretic]

Sen it all before .... there's nothing new going on here. You should've seen the letters pages in MRC and Railway Modeller back in the 60s and 70s. Even RM's legendary editor at the time, Cyril Freezer couldn't keep all of 'em from going hammer and tongs at each other.

[@45degreesmodelling]

@@TheHoveHeretic Funny you should mention that. I’ve recently subscribed to RM and with it comes the full back catalogue in a digital format. I’ve read some of those letters you speak of lol.

[@mattsmocs3281]

Its not a new scale, TT 120 was invented in 1947 in Hartford City Indiana

[@45degreesmodelling]

@@mattsmocs3281 you’re correct, sorry I was referring to the modern U.K. market. I know Triang had some sets in the 50s/60s and it’s already popular in Europe!

[@a2020vision_official]

Overall I think this is a good plan. Unfortunately in my experience, product line ups, even more than individual products, generally suffer from "design by committee" and can lack an overall unified vision.

[@JagoHazzard]

I think I'd start with modern image, for the simple reason that TT:120 is an established scale in Europe, and with the Channel Tunnel, there's a lot of potential for British modellers to take advantage of already-existing rolling stock and for Hornby to sell models overseas. For instance, they could sell a Eurostar train as part of the Hornby range in Britain and the Jouef range in France.

[@Eric_Hunt194]

Agree that modern may have been the ideal starting point Jago. As things stand the range is very similar to what you can get in OO, but just smaller and with no offerings from other manufacturers.

[@michael32A]

Sounds _far_ too logical!😉

[@cyborgbadger1015]

I agree that modern image with it's colour and variety (along with the more icomic steam locos like mallard etc) would be the way to go as this would appeal more the the type of modeller Hornby was hoping to attract. i think Sam's choices were pretty odd overall to be frank.

[@andrewchallis7186]

Geez, I'll be dead in 10 years. Happy with what Hornby have done. A bit of variety and not just old steam.

[@Taggart00]

the 16 ton mineral wagon and the Palvan would be my suggestions

[@SamsTrains]

Good suggestions!! The 16t makes sense!

[@anthknill]

Love all my TT models so far and I’ve got to say Sam. Hornbys plan so far beats yours 😂. Class 50 08s hst and a4s are cracking models in TT

[@TenCJones]

Make some simple locos into kits to save on production costs. Or some simple chassis that people can put their own bodies on.

[@Rick70567]

I'm more than happy with what the Hornby experts have done and are doing !

[@SamsTrains]

Good stuff! Fingers crossed it’s making them some money - their financial report should be out soon!

[@IroncladInSteam4007]

BR wagons could include conflats, steel open mineral wagons, flatbed wagons, and maybe some GUV or PMV vans

[@gazzythomas]

Given younger people are buying smaller houses I wonder whether more emphasis on modern traction to attract younger enthusiasts who would find TT easier to accommodate than OO

[@m10cachilles43]

I think this was going to be my comment. Steam has a certain romance, however are today's younger generation of modellers going to want to make a train set from an era even their grandparents might not remember well, you might they be more interested in items they can see out of the window now? As such might you be better doing a 66, container wagons, Pendalino, HST and Class 150/153/156/158 Sprinter family, for example.

[@womble1981]

Younger person (44) here. I bought a small house despite two children because there is literally no alternative. Actually I’ve been trying to buy a larger house for a few years and had a few offers accepted but it’s seemingly impossible. Modern trains are boring. Sorry. Boring shapes, ugly liveries, flat, corporate branding, and no visible moving parts.

[@cyborgbadger1015]

@@m10cachilles43 I couldn't agree more.

[@cyborgbadger1015]

@@womble1981 Younger person (44) 🤣

[@m10cachilles43]

@@cyborgbadger1015 I actually model both periods myself, however also as a younger person (39), I don't think BR steam is going to have the nostalgia factor for Hornby's target market.

[@jcfx13]

Very interesting video as ever Sam, enjoyed hearing your thoughts. My one criticism is that you approached the question solely from the perspective of an experienced rail enthusiast, whereas Hornby have stated that TT 1:120 is aimed at newer hobbyists. With that in mind, and speaking as someone who's just recently dipped their toes back into the hobby after many years, I think they've mainly nailed it so far. They've gone with famous locomotives, big sellers from their existing ranges, and in the cases of the steam locos with prototypes easily recognisable to the most casual of rail enthusiasts; an approach which I think makes perfect sense being consistent with their need to recoup as much of their investment into the scale as quickly as possible. I'd very much like to see a DMU, but other than that I can't fault their choices so far.

[@NWRJ_WStudios]

I think Hornby should make A GWR hall for TT scale Sam, it would be a nice addition as a mixed traffic locomotive. Cheers Jasper & Willow

[@rvsjimbo]

Hogwarts Castle as well 😊

[@kennydee8296]

agree totally, Jack of all trades loco and is my favorite ✅

[@user-gj1qu6zc3b]

A hall ,14xx Prairie Pannier Auto coach and collect coaches .Toad and coal wagons would be my Choice.

[@thepacerman]

i think anything gwr or lswr would be much appreciated, i would certainly buy it not biased because i live in cornwall, promise

[@grahamallen1970]

Other manufacturers entering the scale...more will follow

[@Eric_Hunt194]

Agreed. Hornby (and some of the others) need to accept that brand loyalty/tribalism isn't really a thing in the hobby... and in my book that's a feature, not a bug.

[@TheCam16]

Emu's and multiple units, size is the main issue why people can't run these kinds of trains in 00, ergo they don't sell well in 00. You just have to look at the amount of emu/dmu's available in N scale to show proof of concept. Third rail traction especially is a huge hole across the range currently.

[@davidstrains4910]

I would argue that the reason why EMUs and multiple units are not as popular isn’t because no one has the space for them on a layout but the cost that they come in at for same, many people are just not willing to pay the high prices that they’re sold for and I have evidence for it, a few years ago a model shop owner told me that bachmann were going to retool their class 220/221 voyager models and bring them more up to date with things like a DCC socket and electronic couplings between the coaches, I’m sure there were other things but the main ones mentioned to me were the dcc socket and electronic couplings but when potential buyers were told how much the model would likely cost which would be in the region of £600 they all said that they were not willing to pay that just for a retool of the model so in the end bachmann immediately dropped the project and didn’t proceed with the retool of the 220/221 voyager units, take a look at the Revolution class 180 for example, currently I have paid £175 to secure myself one of those but the overall price is in the region of £300, the new 802s 5 car sets from hornby are around £500 but it is to be remembered that each company has different circumstances and In terms of Revolution trains they are a smaller company compared to hornby plus with Revolution it’s a crowd fund to get models produced so the £175 I have paid for my 180 is going towards getting the model made, another example of a model os the upcoming dapol class 323, it’s a smaller multiple unit but it’s still going to cost people around £350 for dcc ready.

[@jonathanmillar1975]

​@davidstrains4910 I model 00 gauge and DMU'S are my thing. I am currently in the early development stages of a DMU servicing depot layout. I would love there to be more 00 DMU models and looking forward to the Revolution Trains 180 which I have ordered 2. However, big bug bare is the Bachmann and Hornby pricing of their DMU offering which is ridiculous. £300 plus for a 2 car unit for example. I am not interested in electronic couplings etc. Please Accurascale can you produce some DMU'S so I have a choice and don't have to held ransom to them. A Class 185 TPE please that would be the icing on the cake.

[@davidstrains4910]

@@jonathanmillar1975 Interesting how you don’t care about electronic couplings, first off I should have called them conductive couplings, on multiple units they make it so you only have to have 1 DCC decoder for the whole train instead of having to buy multiple and then program them, the vast majority of people, when buying a multiple unit model will look for conductive couplings if they intend to go DCC, conductive couplings also allow things like interior lighting and extra electrical pickups for the motor, hornby and bachmanns pricing for their multiple units is a bit ridiculous I agree but the price of models is determined by whats happening in the world and the status of the company that makes it from what I have heard, it would be nice to see accurascale produce a multiple unit for the UK but it would be quite a high price, while they may not be doing a British multiple unit right now but under their Irish Manufacturer IRM they are producing a class 22000, a 3 car unit DC that is coming in at £302, a 4 car is coming in at £371 and a 6 car is coming in at £501 so again we have quite high prices here for models of a multiple unit which as I say I think,is a bit of a barrier for other manufacturers who are possibly thinking of producing a multiple unit.

[@jonathanmillar1975]

​@@davidstrains4910 forgot to mention I don't model in DCC hence I am not bothered about that kind of stuff. Front and rear directional lighting is sufficient for my needs at present. The problem I have is that the cost to convert my collection and time it would take I cannot justify. Been collecting on and off for nearly 40 years so have a mix of models. I still have some Lima models which I still run on my layout. Last count I was on 40+ DMU'S and 100+ diesel locomotives as well as wagons and coaching stock. I do some clever wiring and cab control just digital stuff does not interest me in the least.

[@davidstrains4910]

@@jonathanmillar1975 That’s fine if you don’t do DCC Jonathan, I can understand your preference of not wanting it, I used to be the same with this whole DCC stuff but recently I have been fitting some to my locos, even sound ones and I’m enjoying it, we’re all different in this hobby after all but if you were to go dcc and you had a multiple unit you really wanted to do but it didn’t have conductive couplings it means to just get the directional lights working properly you would have to buy 2 dcc decoders and then program them, this has been shown to be quite unpopular with many railway modellers, a good example is when hornby released their new APT one thing they were criticised for was having to buy about 3 dcc chips in order for it to be used on a DCC system, the APT alone is around the £500 mark so having to add to that the price of 3 dcc decoders if that’s what the person has it’s going to get more expensive very quickly and it depends on what decoders that person goes with, the upcoming Stadler FLIRT models that hornby are currently making now where you need multiple decoders for those on DCC whereas you look at bachmann with their recent Southern region EMUs they have a conductive coupling system which means you only need one dcc decoder to get the model ready for running on a dcc system, I can understand your preference of not wanting dcc or these conductive couplings but we are all different in this hobby.

[@user-ig6dm7cq1g]

Hello Sam's Trains. Today is my Birthday 🎂 I'm a huge fan of yours🎉 I love watching your videos.

[@leokimvideo]

If Hornby had any brains they would look very carefully into your ideas. But we all know thats never going to happen. TT120 for it's scale is terribly expensive, a fragmentation of the hobby that no one was asking for. Maybe one of Hornby's smart moves what getting out of Thomas & Friends considering how that franchise has crashed since Thomas AEG. Retailer where I live are no longer selling Thomas toys, and these are retailers who has the brand since the ERTL days. Astonishing to see such a train wreck.

[@cyborgbadger1015]

I don't cos they were pretty awful.

[@kevinpoulton]

I would gone for modern locos . As that what kids and teenagers see . Who are you got in mind your target buys . If you don't want to take poeple out of the 00 market . Do you want new poeple or just same old ones

[@gamerfan8445]

Yeah I doubt that will work.

[@keithdoherty8809]

Class 47 should have been prioritised over the Class 50 imho. The Class 47 was a genuine multiple traffic vehicle for the best part of fifty years and several remain cleared for main service today, Indeed I’d say the 47 was more versatile than the modellers (and manufacturers ) favourite Class 37 - Do we really nead a dozen differing makes of those in every scale known to man/women; honestly really ? i know the scale remains an infant but in steam a 3/4PF class is of urgent demand so why so many Pacific’s (other than ease of manufacturing processes)

[@aussietrails1884]

TT120 fantastic scale and amazing job done by Hornby, Peco and West hill Wagon Works and lots of other small manufactures. More to come from other companies like Revolution Trains. The scale has a great future.

[@T4Van-E-daycamp]

As a TT modeler i would be keen to hear about any up coming locos in tt120 scale that are not made by Hornby. The reliability and quality of the performance of late, has left a lot to be desired. So i’m hoping other makers can be a vast improvement. Please keep us up to date with that scale.

[@tommyb0887]

It’s an interesting plan but you’re not privy to all the market research and what actually sells. What’s funny, even if Hornby had gone with your plan there’d be people complaining!

[@impy1980]

I doubt Horny did any market research, haha.

[@briandesens144]

Awesome video Sam's trains 🚆

[@RWJP]

I think Hornby's big mistake was not going for BR Steam. BR Steam has almost as wide an appeal as the "try to cater to everyone" approach while also having the benefit of "focussing" on one range/era. BR Steam would have allowed for Hornby to produce all of the BR Standards and a huge variety of the Big 4 locos, with only a small number of rolling stock designs needed to cover all of them initially. From a rolling stock point of view, Mk 1 coaches, 12t Vans and 16t Mineral Wagons plus a suitable Break Van would be enough. Maybe not the most thrilling selection, but a simple range that does the job. For the locos, you can still knock out the A3 or A4, and then chuck in a Standard 5, one of the large LMS Pacifics, a GWR King or Castle and a Bulleid Light Pacific. In the second year, expand the range with earlier liveries, a Standard 4 Tank, Pannier etc etc.

[@user-cn4rg2bs4p]

interesting plan. now revolution trains now going to produce ready to run wagons too the range is getting better. caroline

[@stanbruce8510]

Sam you always give an interesting show, and this one got a lot of people thinking, which is always good for the hobby

[@richardmartin9961]

Hi Sam, I have not had a train set since childhood and don`t intend to buy one now, but i do enjoy following your programs. Very well thought out presentations with integrity intact.

[@marcello_marcelli]

Hi Sam, I always appreciate your videos and comments, but this time I definitely prefer Hornby's plan. As a TT modeller from Germany I only knew Mallard, Flying Scotsman, Class 66, the Intercity 125 and - oh wow - they all suddenly were in Hornby's catalogue :-)! Just waiting for the Hogwarts Express and some Downton Abbey trains... But seriously: They got me with their programme and it was really fascinating to learn more about the railways in UK, also by watching your channel. On the other hand, starting with a lot of steam locos only as you proposed would not have attracted me in that way. And so it might also be about people in UK coming or returning to the hobby, probably Hornby's primary targets...

[@kclassproductions]

Seems like you put a lot of thought into your plan Sam!

[@MaxxD86]

What models should Hornby make? TT is still fairly new but for steam they could do with a Castle and a Pannier for GWR, the LMS definitely needs Black 5 because I’m sure most of us had one growing up and for Southern a Bullied (Light) Pacific would be awesome and an M7 perhaps?

[@bobsmodellingmayhem8632]

I think your idea is a good one, though I would do a few of them slightly different. The C1 Atlantic: they were numerous in number and a widespread wheel arrangement, do the GNR/LNER one first to gain the chassis and then tweak the bodies later on for the LBSCR, GCR, L&Y and their later liveries. J94 instead of J50: widespread, lasted into the 80s in industrial use and did both passenger and freight. Class 20 instead of the 25, some are still in service with DRS. The B1 instead of the standard 5. I see where Hornby are going in one respect, they've done buildings for the S&C. So that suggests they're releasing items that worked the route both in steam days and today with the heritage side of things, correct me if I'm wrong but everything released so far worked over the S&C at various times. That's my take on it anyway.

[@MrBnsftrain]

I think their choises of the Flying Scotsman and Mallard were good first models- locomotives that all sorts of people will recognize. The HST and 08 shunters are also iconic and have been in service for 50+ years. The class 50s can be suitable to pull a wide variety of rolling stock, but the Class 66s are limited to being suitable with modern era rolling stock. The J50 was a good compliment to the LNER pacifics and goods wagons available. Hornby did offer matching coaches for the Duchess locos, but I do hope they make streamlined versions in the near future as they use the same chassis. I agree the next TT locomotives Hornby should make are those that can span multiple eras and companies, like the Robinson O4 you mentioned. The LBSC Terriers, LMS 8F, Midland compound, industrial tank engines, Class 37, Class 47, SECR N class or S15, and a Southern Reigon EMU are other examples. Other locos I think should be next steps in TT are the GWR Hall Class which can be the Hogwarts Express, GWR 57xx Pannier tank, LMS Jinty, LMS black 5, BR 9F, Fowler 4F, BR Standard 4 tank, Southern Bullied Pacifics, a 1950s DMU, Pacer, Sprinter, Electrostar, and Hitachi Azuma which would fill in the gaps that Hornby have created in TT. I do agree that the Gresley teak coaches should've been announced at the start of Hornby TT. For rolling stock, I'll just suggest whatever suits the currently available and currently planned offerings of locomotives. Ultimately, what would be ideal is that another manufacturer produce TT trains to compliment what Hornby has done and take the strain off them.

[@gregscally5119]

I cant help feeling TT was Hornby's desperate roll of the dice to return to profitability. For a company that has not made a profit in almost a decade it was a very brave move. I wish them well. But I guess the question is would the large development and tooling costs have been better devoted to raising the quality of their OO range? Hornby has shown it can match Accurascale sometimes but its overall range is very patchy in quality. As a marketing strategy I cant see how TT will ever succeed. The investment required to make and manufacture TT locos vs OO would be almost identical. I am a rusted on Hornby buyer but every time I look at their share price (and now an increase in their borrowings) I wonder how long they have to live in their current organisational structure.

[@TobyOliverHenryFan]

6:12 You see, Sam is smart. I mean, I agree with him. I won't lie that I've been thinking on one day making a TT:120 Gordon.

[@HeavyTanker-vx4oq]

Id like to see you make a attempt at making your own 3D Printed TT locomotives. It would be worth a shot.

[@SamsTrains]

I''d love that too! If I can find some wheels I could give that a go :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@RodericCeorlred]

@@SamsTrains Finding wheel sets in TT gauge shouldn't be as complicated as it may seem. Just google for Peho TT (they also have turned brass axle bearings in their range), Haedl TT, Mueller-TT, or browse through the spare parts range of Roco (yes, they are back in TT scale), Piko, or Tillig.

[@triangttvstilligtt1184]

@@SamsTrains Try 3smr they do TT wheels

[@Brayden4472]

Great plan Sam! I’d certainly be interested in TT if this was the way it was done!!!

[@TheSaint491]

Rolling stock recommendations for phase 2; 1. Br standard 12t panel van, useful for multiple future phases and tons of derivations possible 2. Br conflat wagon. In addition to visual appeal, gives subtle teasers to modellers about gwr and br metrovicks/class 24s/black 5s for condor sets Phase 4 recommendation: br mk1 suburbans for further consist and suburban variation. Also gives hope for a class 31 from modellers

[@andrewcutts3197]

Don’t forget that the original plan for the reintroduction of this scale was to cater for people who wanted a small shelf layout as well as the main line oval style layout. An ex LMS or a Standard 2-6-2 Mickey Mouse tank engine and an ex-LMS push-pull set would be popular. Also an ex-GWR B-Set to go with a pannier tank would sell. I’d also bring out a Hall instead of the Star class loco.

[@jamesdunloptrains]

Very interesting video today Sam if hornby did that I would be shocked

[@peterrosier7079]

Hi Sam thanks for another great video. You're strategy for TT is a good one the only thing i would change is introducing the SR at the sametime as BR. The idea being to release SR locomotives but also do BR version's aswell so the BR era is still covered.

[@eggballo4490]

I know Hornby is a British company, but even so, I just want to see more models of Irish engines and rolling stock.

[@andrewguttry6886]

Nice selections. One correction; the GWR 57XX was not auto-fitted. The 64XX and 16XX were, and would be more suitable for running with an autocoach, not requiring running round at branch termini as would be the case with the 57XX.

[@ChrisGBusby]

New scale, new market, new era. I would go 100% bright and colourful current EMUs - SWR 444/455 etc, Southern 377, Virgin Voyager etc. Then current era locos in the brightest colours possible - GBRf 66, Freightliner 59. DMUs like East Midlands 222 No steam at all - all modern era to appeal to the kids. Zero nostalgia. Cut down on detail, market it as a bright toy that will fit in their bedroom. Enthusiasts already have O, HO/OO, N, Z, T plus all the narrow gauge options. TT could be the cheap introduction kids need. Oh, and don't let Hornby anywhere near it :P

[@pdsnpsnldlqnop3330]

I think you are correct. Plus those Hitachi things fake-GWR have are just four/five car sets bolted together for full length trains as they are not too long for a small layout. HST sets have to have at least seven cars to look any good.

[@andyaccount]

Hi Sam, Instead of the Star Class I may have chosen the Saint Class as when the modern era models start coming out you can then produce the new build locomotives 'Tornado' (although this may be a Peppercorn A1 rather than a Gresley one but I don't know what the differences are) and 'Lady of Legend'.

[@marksinthehouse1968]

A nice class 47 maybe an AC electric emu/loco and a DMU of some kind 😊

[@TobyOliverHenryFan]

10:32 I always thought the Toad Brakevans had one opening, or whatever it's called.

[@LindseyTate13]

Great video Sam! I would love to see a video like this but for 009 if you would be willing to do that.

[@rogerterry5013]

I want a tt120 shunter with full dcc. This could get me into modelling again for sure.

[@adriantaylor893]

I’m expecting Hornby to sign you up shortly, great plan👍🏻

[@kineticrail]

One glaring omission in my opinion is the hunslet austerity tank. -It would use the same underframe and running gear of your other 0.6.0 locos - it would cover BR and LNER eras and liveries - opens the door for industrial modellers using the huge variety of industrial and even military users of the loco

[@lukejackson8741]

It’s an interesting feature… I think you’ll lose a lot of interest not getting that HST out early, so maybe year one have that as an option, I’d also knock one of your 4 new tooling a year out and replace it with your diesel set up, one a year coming out, mooching off your existing rolling stock, but supporting your HST fans, look at the amount of companies (west hill, good wood, cavelex etc.) plus amount of companies that do solely diesel tops/pre-tops stuff, it’ll help you spread out initial fan base and have one fan base buying constantly each year I’d possibly do your mineral wagons as your BR steam stage wagon

[@davidhinks8384]

TBH, if TT had a better range across the manufacturers I would have bought in. I like OO but like many space is at a premium. N isn't for me but Chandwell is a stand out of how amazing this scale can be. I salute Hornby for trying to relaunch TT in the UK. They are hitting & missing as usual, however as a critic of their OO performance I do commend them. I agree with you Sam, maybe an express & a suburban for the big 4. Cheers

[@drecksaukerl]

TT would be the only way I would get into modeling British trains. 1:76 scale vehicles on 1:87 scale track is a no-go for me, so no OO. It seems to me that someone just looking to get into British stuff has a mix of iconic models to pick from, so I need to make a little room in my basement and figure out how to get it as inexpensively as possible in the US.

[@Avrenac]

Very nice Sam, I wish Hornby hired you for this. However I would include at least one none steam loco in year 2.

[@Taggart00]

One thing you didn't mention is if you would allow competition to take place or if a rival announced a model would you rush to make it before them?

[@SamsTrains]

It depends - if work has already started on the model, then it’s in your interest to release it first. If not, I’d cancel it and do something else… there’s so much else that needs doing!

[@lindaoffenbach]

Well, of course the question was directed to Sam, but would it not be more wise working together instead of competing hard in an already small business. For example, in Germany both PIKO and Märklin/Trix worked on their respective ICE-4 at the same time and launch at around the same time in case of H0. This is common practice amongst German manufacturers. There is no rush to who is first. Both brands have their pro and cons. PIKO committed to higher roof details, whilst Märklin/Trix committed on innovation of functions such as dimmable internal lighting and adjustable colour temperatures, had some other details modelled better, etc. Both brands sold equally well, but not in a toxic way.

[@gamerfan8445]

​@@lindaoffenbachI think something similar is going on with the US market as well.

[@markweightman3805]

Interesting video Sam...I think you missed a trick with your no. Of Strategies, I think there is a 3rd. Which Hornby have followed....build in TT the locos that are the best sellers from 00....that therefore entices the 'collectors' who don't model a particular era .. you know someone like yourself 😮😅. ( or me..!) I rotate my collection of locos every 4-6 weeks on the layout between The Big Four, BR steam and BR diesel. I do wonder how many modellers are strictly era/region/company limited...or are their more who dabble in a bit of everything. ??? Thus Hornby building 'bestsellers' makes business sense...but not to the outside world at large....

[@SomeGuynamedOtto]

excited to watch

[@brianjacksongreen6691]

Another great video from Sam. I do not agree though with his ideas on TT production. I think Hornby have achieved a miracle and have done a lot of intelligent planning. I think TRIANG and KITMASTER were so clever in their launch of the original TT for the period they lived in. I run both 3mm and 120 and these new models are brilliant, however the size of 3mm is visually superior particularly for aging eyesight. I love stripping down the old robust mechanisms and bringing them back to life ... I am not sure if many could do this for the 120 mechanisms ? I follow Ebay sales and it is alarming to see the number of second hand 120 scale items that people had bought and are so quickly dumping. I am amused by some of the 120 conversions that look cruder than many models in the 3mm membership. Putting spoked wheels on TRIANG 3mm loco's helps transform them. The spaces in spoked wheels on 120 locos are so close that it isn't really that obvious as little light passes through them. I hope we have articles how to utilise 120 items/ mechanisms in the 3mm fraternity.

[@Lamp_2155]

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head in terms of Hornby using quite a few heavy hitters early on. Currently you can model Doncaster works and not much else unless you don’t mind duplicate locos

[@tomc2705]

Great plan, but what about including an industrial steam loco of some sort? It could be produced in lots of real and fictitious Private owner liveries, would be a range-spanner as many of them worked well into the '70s, and work alongside all the other eras planned so far

[@dannyvanstraelen3273]

Hi Sam, I'm not keen on TT just for the reason I like era's and rolling stok that took ages to appear in OO and it will take ages, if not forever to see them appear in TT. But I've been following the scene and it seems the biggest argument is the les space it takes to have a layout, a lot of elder people are moving from a house into an apartment, so I understand the need for that. To most of these people, an A3 or an A4 was the first loco's most of them got first, so I understand the nostalgia in that. I think most TT collectors are aware that the choice would be limited, and that patience would be something taken in consideration, and I hope for them they can bring up that patience. To me an open question would be, was it not better to start with BR diesels instead of steam? Visiting shows, I think there is a huge shift from steam to diesel and modern rolling stock. I see more and more diesel layout gain territory over steam, totally different now than lets say 10 years ago. So I understand your love for steam, but I think steam will be a minority in the future…

[@ricktownend9144]

This is a brilliant idea! Perhaps any manufacturer considering a new scale or range should consult more widely among the modelling fraternity! An alternative for a new range would be to pick a prototype where the range of 'real' items is not very wide. 00n9 would be an example of this, but if Hornby had picked, say, the fascinating Rodopi mountain railway in Bulgaria (many youtube videos - this is a real railway, operating 4/5 times every day over 78 miles of track, stopping at the highest station in the Balkans), they could have done it in one year: two loco types (one steam, one diesel), one coach (in 3 or 4 liveries) and a few goods wagon types, plus some simple 10mm gauge track (useful also for other Eastern European 760mm 'Bosnian gauge' railways, or the Welshpool & Llanfair).

[@T3DSK1]

Being from South Wales there has to be a class 37 or as we called them a "68", some 21 ton mineral VB`s and coke hoppers or iron ore hoppers (ex footplate Ebbw Valley)

[@lego_kitsune]

15:56 for your br wagons i would go the route of 21/16T mineral wagons and Ex-GWR cattle vans

[@OlivierGabin]

For the BR wagon period 5 to today or close, I would choose the MGR Hopper, a real signature wagon from the era 6 to the era 9. Not complicated, covers a broad range of time, and was widely used (it killed off all the previous types of coal wagons). Certainly a must-do if you are going towards the diesel side of the rail force. Good marketing strategy you made here Sam, hope Hornby would listen...Their offer in TT is a little bit all over the place, and no one YET had come forward to plug the gaps. Hope that might change soon...

[@T4Van-E-daycamp]

I would definitely include DEMU’s as they were still in service late , on non electrified routes.

[@RonCooper-nl4pn]

Hi Sam , I just would like you to have added some Bogie Goods wagon’s ! The variety is great and various in this range. Regards from Ron 🚂

[@grahamariss2111]

The goods wagon would be the 16 ton steel mineral wagon, the perfect thing to run behind 9f and also being introduced in the war can be run behind big 4 freight locomotives. Sell to go with it a coal load with a magnet so you can load and unload your train.

[@davidstrains4910]

Interesting video here Sam, to be honest I’m not sure what hornby should make in TT but we do have more manufacturers coming to the scale, Revolution trains have made their 1st announcement of some wagons. Been trying out my steam generator P2 today and have to say that it is a fantastic innovation from hornby, looks good overall plus today I got in the post a bachmann Tornado to replace my hornby one which has had motor problems for some time now.

[@harrytodhunter5078]

How long until Hornby bully Revolution out of making them though?

[@thomasfrancis5747]

@@harrytodhunter5078 Why would they and how could they do it? Hornby needs TT120 to achieve critical mass through a wide range of available models and prove that it is a commercially viable scale.

[@TobyOliverHenryFan]

15:34 I say some type of cattle van and a 1-plank or a flatbed.

[@georgemartin408]

Anecdotal, but from what we can glean Hornby are really pleased with how the new scale has sold. The train sets have sold out whenever available. As Sam did say, a huge investment is involved, but one factor not mentioned is how long before other manufacturers join in. Peco we know about, but it was rumoured that Heljan cancelled an intention to produce a TT loco - presumably to see whether the scale would succeed. I therefore expect other manufacturers to be looking at developing locos and rolling stock in the new scale. It is, after all, inconceivable that others would simply leave Hornby alone to cash in on a new market. So I think the range of products available could well expand more quickly once Dapol, Heljan, Accurascale et al get their acts together.

[@foofydroopy]

some interesting takes. I've thought that a toy TT train set (maybe packaged with a 0-4-0 or a 0-6-0 loco) would be great for newcomers with limited space and they could pick up more items down the line. some people wanting to see what the scale is like could get this instead of the more "serious" train sets hornby has put out. if they like it then they could get the other train sets. I feel like this way the new scale can ease itself into the UK hobby but what do I know as hornby seems to have done well so far

[@therailfanman2078]

I would release a few train sets to start. First we have a small freight with an 0-6-0, two wagons, and a brake van. Next, a medium sized branchline train with a 2-6-2T, and two passenger cars. And a big express train pack with a 4-6-2 and three or four passenger cars. And a bonus switching set with an 0-6-0 and an 0-4-0, four freight cars, a brake van, and two medium sized coaches, with 3 switch tracks.

[@acousticape]

Hello sam great video overall but I noticed one massive glaring hole: where is the love for small 0-4-0 shunters, especially industrial shunters? No peckett or hunslet locos, definitely opportunity there I think. I would opt for the J94 instead of the J50 so I could use the J94, 57xx and a new tool peckett in industrial liveries.

[@Michaelgoestofrance]

Always interesting to speculate and such but, on the whole, I have appreciated Hornby's approach. As a D&E fan, I have been well catered to over the past few months - especially as I am most interested in eras 7&8. In the meantime I did invest in an A4, which is now ready to be sold on, and I think that brings me to my main point. From what I gather being on a number of forums, I get the impression that many have adopted the scale itself and so have bought into 'it' rather than a given era or region. For now at least. Obviously there are some who want to see their specific loco, etc. modelled but I think that comes from a somewhat OO scale mentality where choice is so extremely broad people's specific loco can be modelled. Just wanted to point out, the Class 66 does appear to be an outlier in some respects but I think one of its advantageous roles is to provide a basis for Arnold to be able to produce lots of Continental variants from. Also, following the Revolution Trains announcement, this loco choice has become more relevant. I may even indulge in one myself despite it being many years later than my preferred stomping grounds. Whatever the case, always good to see some TT content!

[@SteamintheNorthWest]

It's always a difficult one to decide where to start. Wouldn't a good area be BR Standards and then early diesels in first 2 years. You can then cover late steam, dieselisation and BR blue era quite quickly

[@cirseltoo]

One problem Hornby has had in spades is that stuff in Year 1 was selling out faster than Hornby were able to produce it. This in turn took production slots away from later items. The O4 is in Bachmann's stable so Hornby would have to start from measuring and there will be nothing in the archives. Hornby do the O1 but that isn't a good enough seller.

[@TheUlitimateFoe]

Personally Year 1 I'd have Flying Scotsman ( passenger loco) Terrier ( Tank engine) Black 5 ( Freight Loco) If you wanted a 4th I'd say the 08 shunter. This not only covers 3 of the Big Four it also covers the bases. Also all of these locos have been in hornbys range for years and they sell well. I think this would be a good start to bring people into the new scale. Having the popular locos first would help generate a steady income to keep the scale going. Year 2 would have to be City class (specifically City of Truro) 9 F Deltic And that optional 4th would probably be a Pannier tank. Year 3 would have to start with Mallard Ruston shunter Hunslet Austerity And for that optional 4th Standard class 2 Year 4 Coronation Scot Battle of Britain class 101 DMU And for that 4th Class 43 (HST) Year 5 is when id probably start to experiment a little more. Lion (if it was possible in a smaller scale) King class J70 Tram And finally for the 4th The Stirling single I think this covers most areas. Pre grouping, big four, BR and industrial.

[@Bowsy-1120]

The biggest cock up I think Hornby made is not having a more diverse range upon release. In terms of models released anyway. If I recall the first two were an A1 and an A4? Two express engines and nothing else. If I were to do it (Just the launch mind you.) I would have gone for One large, One Medium (Either small tender or large tank engine.) and One Small steam engine, and one large diesel and one small diesel 5 locos in the first wave with a good range, I would have stuck them all in a BR livery (Though maybe different colours?) and tried to mix up the sources a bit. (I'm not a diesel guy so will leave those out.) But for the loco's say an A1/3 for the large steam engine and representing the LNER, in Ivatt class 2 (Tender or Tank.) as the middle ground and repping the LMS and lastly a GWR Pannier for the GWR. And as I said 2 diesel locos. One large and one small (With the smaller being something like a class 08. which could in theory use the same chassis (Or at least an awful lot of the same development work.) For the Pannier tank. I'd have two starter sets. One with the A1/3 as Steam passenger, and one with the large diesel with goods stock. I'd make the rolling stock in the starter sets share moulds with the things that were up for sale out side of a starter set, but not the same paint scheme (IE maybe the coaches in the set are Teak and the ones for individual sale are Red?) Once the first wave had landed then I would work on what they have. Start working on other liveries and what not. As the main development and cost going forwards would be Loco development, I would try to get it to 6 new Locos a year. One per big 4 company (one big two medium and one small loco, trying to change up what company's got the big and small loco's each year. (Maybe putting a southern loco in the next starter set to make up for its absence the first year?) , and 2 diesel, so that in theory there would be one Diesel and one Steam Starter set per year, alternating between Freight and Passenger to mix it up a little. With a large or medium Loco each time and keeping the rolling stock as unique as possible in the starter sets as an incentive to buy them. (Of course I don't expect the 'Exclusive' liveries to remain exclusive for ever. Maybe for a year and then its released in the next year for individual purchase?) But I would continue with the idea of all the liveries produced would be limited to BR's ones at first, and then maybe diversify 6 months later. Maybe they could even go back to doing unique sets every now and then as a bonus (Not replacing a starter set. But maybe a Break down train set, or even a 2 engine set, or of course a harry potter set maybe every other year? or even a big one. One of the big American War Tender Engines (That I have completely forgotten the name of.) with some flat beds with tanks on it?) As it would give an excuse to produce things that may not fit in to the standard plan? Ultra Modern Sets, Vintage sets (Virgin High Speed Trains and Stephenson's Rocket.) Things that wouldn't fit in to the basic set of 'Six BR Engines a year' format. I know its not perfect but that's how I would have done it. May have been a bit expensive upfront, but theoretically once sale's picked up you have a system you can churn out each year with only real development costs being on locomotives. (And even then after a while You'll be able to use the chassis over and over again. Especially for things like 0-6-0 tank engines and Diesel locomotives.) It should also in theory that everybody would want to buy something each year. Even if it is just a loco from their chosen region. I knew a few people who arnt even looking at TT120 till they produce something southern or western. Also the reason I would go with BR liveries for the initial release of every loco, is simply because that means everything, could theoretically, run on a layout together right out of the box. As its a simple case of, to those that care and sit there saying 'I cant run early GWR badged locos next to BR branded Eastern region stock' may be sated if everything, upon initial release represents a comparable time period, and those that don't care. Well they don't care. But those who do care and don't care, can still buy everything on day one release and run it on their layout with out issue. And of course 6 to 12 months later. Regional and more diverse liveries and paint schemes will be released. (Of course I would be doing the same with rolling stock whilst trying to keep things exclusive at least for 12 months or so. ) Over all the idea would be 24 locomotives by the end of the first 4 years. Which I know is a little heavy, but it would keep people interested in the line, and again after a while you can start reusing your R&D costs. (I mean how much would it really cost to make an A4 is you already have an A1 or A3 or any 0-6-0 (Tender or tank engine) Once you have the basis of a Pannier out of the way?) Plus you'd have a good small fleet per region, as well as a good mix of BR diesel loco's with a wide range of rolling stock. (Of course your going to have a lot of repeats (Many, many repaints of 5 plank wagons.) but a lot of diversity too (A chance to get a GWR clerestory rake of coaches in there, Along side a LMS, Southern and LNER stock along side Pullmans and BR Mk1's) . The same way Sam seams to have lined up his product line.) Also completely off topic of TT-120 but that could be applied is the idea of alternate numbers for wagon and coach packs. Would it not be possible for them to do an A and B (And possibly even C set.) With the basic idea of it being that all packs (A, B and C.) Are the same (two open wagons, one box van and one tanker.) But each set has a different series of running numbers. to keep it really simple. the wagons in set A would 010 and 011, the van would be 212 and the tanker could be 308, and then the identical models in set be would be 012 and 013 the van as 213 and the tanker as 309 and of course set C would continue the numbers. At least in my mind this wont effect anybody that would buy just one wagon set, and may even encourage people to buy even more. Another alternative would be to just leave the numbers off the wagons and include stickers the user could put on themselves. Maybe with a little diagram to show where they are intended to go?

[@theflyingshunter]

I would suggest the 3F jinty's as they were LMS, lasted until BR, has done passengers & freight

[@Alpha-oo8]

Hmmm, pretty solid plan! Though I think leaving diesel modellers to wait until year 4 may be a bit of a risk, the diesel crowd is pretty large (judging by how many manufacturers focus on mostly diesels right now)

[@thomasfrancis5747]

When Triang launched TT they made current BR locos and rolling stock (both steam and diesel) - nothing pre-nationalisation but they could be run in most regions. A DMU would be useful. Bachmann has just launched a range of TT120 buildings (and rumoured to be doing more) while another UK manufacturer has announced a TT120 bogie wagon. Looking at Peco packaging there seems to be room for boxvans, etc? I can't see another manufacturer coming in with TT120 train sets (except perhaps Tillig) due to the investment required but I think Hornby may have left deliberate gaps in the market for others (eg Dapol?) to test the water by filling. It's interesting to see how in the original TT established small manufacturers like BEC and GEM launched white metal kits - today the same thing is being done by even smaller/newer manufacturers using 3D printing RTR/finished products..

[@minos5548]

what a great C. V. If you was applying for a job at hornbys , but why lower your standards , keep up your great videos and maybe one day the big model train companies my start to listen and understand its reliability and good testing of all items before foisting sub standard models on us. I include all the model makers thanks again for your videos john

[@tbrooke3016]

The keithley and worth valley railway also has a 2mt in preservation so you could in the future do some up specially for that loco number to attract some attention to the model as it ages

[@nathanbowers6364]

Given that you can build so much in a small space, surely some Southern early gen' electrics would sell well to those who like busy suburban layouts?

[@trevorbell3571]

A thoughtful video Sam, I'm sure if you asked 100 different modellers you would get 101 different answers! It was good news this week for TT, with Revolution stepping into the TT market. I doubt it won't be too long before others do the same.

[@blakesmith6303]

Some interesting ideas here, but my main takeaway is that my toolbox is missing an era-spanner.

[@johnmboon]

Loved this. How about doing it in other scales, perhaps across multiple manufacturers?

[@adamwilliams192]

Interesting thought exercise. Personally I would bring the 08 earlier than you have, as it was such an early design. I would swap the 25 for a 31 as again that was very early and so numerous. For wagons in your first Diesel year I would maybe think about the TTA tank wagon, but then again maybe that would be a top up for year 5. Small point; HST (Class 43) made use of MK3 not MK2 coaches. I would save MK2s for year 6, then you could bring out the Class 47 in matching Intercity livery. Best

[@andrewverden7965]

I think I'd also be looking to re-use existing CAD/CAM work of recently tooled OO gauge locos and re-use mechanisms between similar locos to maximize what I can out there with reduced development costs and standardize on repairs etc. My guess is that existing tooled detail standards for OO gauge would be sufficiently detailed to ship in TT and that little re-working is required to compete with new detailing standards set by Accurascale etc. Trainsets and starter sets are key for a new scale...

[@rugbycentralofficial]

I must say that this is close to what I would do, although I wouldn't do the Star class, rather I might turn to the Castle in the first year, if you weren't going to produce the pre-grouping liveries the more recognisable Castles may be a better pull on customers than Stars

[@pdsnpsnldlqnop3330]

Totally modern era with cameras in the cab, easy bluetooth pairing, lights, speakers and DCC out of the box. The trains should work with Alexa home automation things too. Opening range would include those Hitachi things because they work as five car sets. I would have a phone app that enables a remote connection, so you can invite a friend to play trains without them having to be in the room, to run scheduled services as a game. I would also partner with TESCO to do a TESCO train at a bargain price, this would have the 66 and lots of wagons with the basic oval to get people started. This would get to be on sale in TESCO with value range wagons that are fine for a five year old but not for the boomer. The value range trains would be the 'gateway drug'.

[@KnifeyKnifeyBrothers]

No 4-4-0 locos? I’d consider swapping one for the King class since it is pretty similar to the existing GWR tender loco

[@xavierlu5849]

Hornby should hire you Sam. You’ve got a fantastic 5-year plan for what to produce in TT.

[@richardsteele4670]

Some nice ideas Sam. Still no Southern for us down here in the South