Whips SUCK in D&D 5E ... Right?

[@SnowyDayINC]

NOTE:The point of this build is to violate the Geneva Convention

[@AtaraxianWist]

I mean, honestly the best fix for the whip is to just play it as a simple weapon. It's not, by any means, a simple weapon, but ruling it as one allows monks and rogues to use it to great effect.

[@cillianthestupendous6093]

simple vs martial weapons doesn´t make sense to begin with. why is a spear simple and a trident martial? they handle the exact same way. same with club/mace. javelins especially make no sense being a simple weapon, they were historically used exclusively in warfare. also, daggers are some of the most complex weapons to use/master but they still count as simple, but the swortsword is martial? the only justifiable reason for weapon proficiencies to exist in 5e is to prevent casters from using the strongest weapons imo. rouges/barbarians should just get all weapons, like fighters.

[@steeldrago73]

Crazy rope tricks done with a 10 foot rope.

[@pungoblin9377]

I also feel like having the whip start a grapple and/or shove attempt on a hit wouldn’t be too op (maybe have sleight of hand/Athletics vs Athletics/Acrobatics?)

[@thekaxmax]

@@cillianthestupendous6093 from those that have practiced with them, tridents are very tip-heavy and handle far more like a halbard when it is used like a spear. So it's not simple to be useful with it.

[@sethmays8309]

Speaking from experience in cracking and making whips, they very much are simple weapons and should have the light property. A quick fix would be to make them simple weapons and add the light property, in this way they become viable for two weapon fighting builds for classes that will make the most use of them.

[@alexandercross9081]

The whip specifically is one of the reasons why I allow my players to learn new weapons with downtime. If the player wants to build a character with a whip they should be able to

[@ZAKKIRK]

I've been playing a paladin that makes use of a whip. Ten foot smiting is fun. Putting thunderous smite on the whip is some great flavor.

[@adventurer3288]

Castlevania vibes!

[@trenttimegod1]

Been building an oath of ancients paladin that’s uses a whip and shield with sentinel. Been looking into homebrew whip feats that would basically give the properties of Polearm master. I plan on playing him in my home game and I’m curious if there’s any foresight you might have for this type of build. Maybe weaknesses you’ve run into or some combo that worked well

[@ZAKKIRK]

@@trenttimegod1 I once used the whip with ensnaring strike to tie up a would be assassin. The rogue botched a stelth roll trying to sneak up and stab the paladin in the back. The extra reach on the whip was nice, stopped the rogue before they could make a strike.

[@textoffender3410]

It probably isnt bad but a strength paladin with a strength reach weapon (like any of the polearms) and heavy armor is gonna out perform it

[@KarakTo]

Pick up the Slasher feat for some kiting

[@donovanmedieval]

Officers in evil armies can use them to keep their underlings in line ("Where there's a whip, there's a way") or torturing prisoners.

[@kontrarien5721]

We don't wanna go to war today, but the lord of the lash says nay nay nay!

[@donovanmedieval]

@@kontrarien5721 We're gonna march all, day, all day, all day.

[@LoreFoundry]

Slasher is a feat that applies to whips. Slowing an enemy with a reach weapon seems pretty good. And you can even hold a shield.

[@christaylorraka4053]

Oddly I'd love to see a monk with a whip

[@AzraelThanatos]

I played a Variant Human Kensei Monk with the Archeologist background through a Tomb of Annihilation campaign, mainly using the Whip, but I had a short sword (I treated as a Machete) and a hand crossbow. The DM didn't realize that I'd built until pretty far into the game when he didn't realize that my hand crossbow as also being treated as a monk weapon...and got a nat 20 on the attack on someone using compel duel to keep me from being a pain in the rear against those going after the rest of the party. The realization came when another player started playing the Indiana Jones March at that point and the DM figured it out there

[@zatrzymac409]

​@AzraelThanatos Im happy i wasnt the only person with this idea! Im playing a tortle monk with an archeologist background in my tomb of annihilation game and im planning on multiclassing into battle master fighter so i can use grapples and disarms from 10 ft or even 15 if i use lunging strike with them. Indiana Jones turtle.

[@jonathanhamm8939]

I watched the whole video, assuming it had thousands of views Now I want to try to build characters based on certain weapons

[@MrBracey100]

Whips should classically be able to do a few things with proper training which could be expressed theough a Feat. 1. Disarm This could be either slapping something from a hand or even pulling daid item back to your own 2. Grapple Whips are just made for this! 3. Trip Snag an ankle with a whip and pull em off their feet. 4. Swing You should be able to target something s whip can wrap around and swing from it.

[@Lionrhod212]

Totally agreed!

[@tkc1129]

There never was anything wrong with the whip. Sometimes, damage dice isn't the most important thing. I used a whip on my Storm Cleric. I could benefit from a shield, stay behind the frontlines, act as a middle line to protect the rear line, and by being in the middle of the party, I could easily reach my party for healing. Losing 2 damage isn't a big deal when I have the option to attack more often, and have so many strategic advantages.

[@RoninCatholic]

This. Spacing is supposed to be crucial in a game like D&D - pure Theater of the Mind combat penalizes ranged/spacing attackers and characters with improved move speed compared to slow moving heavy hitters.

[@tkc1129]

@@RoninCatholic That 100% reflects my opinion.

[@Lilith_Harbinger]

Except you can achieve almost the same with a shield and a free hand, casting cantrips. At a high enough level your cantrips do more damage as well. Attacks of opportunity do so little damage, especially if you use a whip and can't boost the damage.

[@rich63113]

Aye - the whip is the only finesse weapon with Reach, and the only 1 handed weapon with Reach. It's also the only reach weapon that isn't heavy (aside from the lance, which is a weird weapon).

[@deusvult5895]

A Kensei Monk is probably the best suited for whips. Their martial arts die also applies to martial arts weapons, meaning the damage increases with your level, and you can have profiency with it at third level

[@Morganwrath]

I actually like the o.g hobgoblin but yeah its pretty niche, believe astral elf can choose a weapon proficiency? So there's at least that option for rogues.

[@ramuk1933]

It kind of makes sense that the whip isn't that good of a weapon in most cases because not all weapons are as generally effective as others, but they all still have their uses.

[@omous7770]

This video makes a lot of good points on this whip not being worth using for most characters and not really fulfilling its fantasy for the most part. I decided to come up with a whip feat, and this is what I got from it Whip Feat - Evermoving Coil -As a bonus action, swing it in a pattern around you. If a creature moves or is moved into range, you can use a reaction to attack them with a whip -Damage die upgrades to a d6. When wielded with 2 hands, can deal a d8 and gains a 5 ft reach extension. -Instead of an attack, can attempt to shove or grapple the target at range. Uses dexerity (Athletics) and grappling a target pulls them to you. This can also be used on objects that are not worn or held without requiring a check.

[@fredericouno4414]

A few notes: You could say something like, "For you, whips are versatile weapons, dealing 1d6 (1d8) slashing damage." That covers the one/ two-handed versatility in a more succinct way that uses 5e terminology. It doesn't make sense for the range to extend when wielding the whip two-handed. Holding a weapon two-handed inherently gives you a shorter reach. It'd make more sense to swap that, giving the longer range when wielding it one-handed. A grapple and/or pulling toward you makes sense, but I'd probably stop there. I don't see how anyone would make a shove with a whip. It's too flimsy to have a pushing effect.

[@omous7770]

@@fredericouno4414 That's very fair. It's been a while since I've written this, but the reason for the reach extension was more so for balance purposes rather than realism so they can choose to sacrifice some AC from using a shield in order to outrange enemies with a 10 ft reach, and monks gain an additional advantage in using it since they wouldn't lose out on a shield. If I were to rewrite this, I would definitely give whips the versatile property for a d6(d8) like you suggested, and would probably instead add that they can modify an existing whip for an additional 5 ft of reach at the cost of having to use it with two hands. I would prefer to not directly give it the two-handed property because then it would no longer work as a monk weapon (Something to keep in mind here is that I usually house rule it as a simple weapon, so this feat should also probably give proficiency) The intention for the pushing effect was more so to provide another option for control that fits alongside pulling an enemy to you, however I envisioned it more as using the whip to drive back an opponent rather than directly shoving them (which is part of why it uses dexterity instead of athletics).

[@Ace_of_Cards11]

I play a similar build, but I multiclassed Swarmkeeper ranger with Arcane trickster rogue. Many D6es are cast when I hit.

[@Grungeon_Master]

Very solid idea - especially with the swarm's forced movement. I like fey wanderer because it gets so little love, and adding your wisdom to Charisma checks makes for so much out of combat utility, too.

[@atroecious9357]

​@@Grungeon_Master I love Fey Wanderer. I have a build I recently finished that uses it, Aasimar, and Cleric levels to make a wisdom based Paladin that can still act as a party face, has most of the Paladin features, and is a more versatile caster

[@Nedoiko]

Both the OG hobgoblin and the new Monsters of the Multiverse version are great!, the OG gave you light armor proficiency, which elects you for the moderately armored feat, which goes great on Wizards and Sorcerers (its also a nice way to play a scythe necromancer by using a halberd). and then the MPMM version, albeit losing the proficiencies, gain a cool bonus action help, which is like one of only two abilities given to racial choices that actually buff or benefit allies (the other being the draconic cry from the kobold), which makes them both cool as supporty type characters (bards, commander type battlemasters) and on summoners too (specially with the tasha summon spells)

[@grimdolo918]

Works great for a Kensai monk. As a monk weapon the damage scales with your martial arts damage.

[@Lilith_Harbinger]

It works but if you can't make unarmed attacks from 10 ft you are missing out on a lot of damage for a little bit of safety.

[@afonsollima]

I use a whip with my warmage from the Valda's Spire of secrets. I do it because of flavor most of all, but it works pretty effectively with the double ranged cantrips from my trick.

[@Ruspanic]

5:56 Why you gotta attack me like that

[@Satchel_Gizmo]

Ok, but whips on Dex based Echo Knights are fucking dope. The sheer amount of squares you have access to attack as a melee character is insane. My DM made a (admittedly kinda bad) feat called 'Whip Master' that increased reach of the whip 5ft, increased the damage to 1d6, and allowed you to do some really poorly written bonus action grapple. Might ask him to change it

[@Grungeon_Master]

There are definitely cool ways to use it! That feat sounds actually reasonably balanced to me lol

[@Satchel_Gizmo]

@@Grungeon_Master the only issue was that the grappling ability was written poorly, and there was no extra option for a Dexterity whip build. Any low strength-high dex build got the equivalent of a half feat with no ability increase. In that case the only way I would consider taking it was if I were an Echo Knight, due to how many squares you can cover with it as a melee character (something like 48 squares for attacks, 32 for Attacks of Opportunity). I also didn't want an AoO range quite THAT big 😂

[@destinpatterson1644]

​@@Satchel_GizmoI'd write it. Whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack with a whip that's in your hand, you can choose to give up dealing damage to it, to instead grapple or shove the creature. If the creature wishes to escape the grapple they must use their action to make a strength saving throw with a DC equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your strength or dexterity modifier.

[@timjackson9334]

A few things. There is a feat called weapon master that gives the character proficiency with four weapons of your choice. The Whip does slash damage, so you can add the Slasher feat. But for my build, I'm going with a Half-Orc Champion with the feat Magic Initiate: Druid for the cantrip Thorn Whip. Then later add the Piercer feat. A rogue at level 4 can take the weapon master feat and gain proficiency in the Whip, or variant human rogue with weapon master as a free feat, then add the Whip to the list.

[@Grungeon_Master]

That's true. I didn't consider weapon master on this build, because I find it to be quite weak. It's a good thing to mention, for completeness, though. Sounds like a fun build!

[@timjackson9334]

@@Grungeon_Master weapon master is for the non martial classes as the martial classes can use all the weapons. I'm exploring using Cantrips as main weapons.

[@timjackson9334]

Thorn Whip does 1d6 piercing damage. Has a 30' reach, and can pull the target in 5'.

[@ME-kd1ko]

I've seen the whip being used as an effective weapon of two different characters at my table. One was a Kensei Monk, where a player had a concept of someone with a whip and I helped her make it work in practice. Between relatively high AC boosted by Agile Parry, bonus action dodge, and the other two characters in the party being mostly ranged, she turned out to be a better frontliner than most Monks are supposed to be. The low damage die of the whip wasn't much of an issue when it is considered a Monk weapon, which lets the damage die scale, and the reach was useful on occasion. The other character was a Barbarian/Rogue multiclass, where the whip started out as an impulse buy and ended up as one of several different options. Long story short: when the Barbarian/Rogue wants a free hand for grappling, you go for a rapier, since the reach is worthless when you're grappling. Whenever you go with a shield in your off hand, the reach of a whip is probably more useful than the average of two (2) more damage per attack compared to the rapier. Most of your damage comes from static bonuses and Sneak Attack dice anyway.

[@Shaso-xv3tw]

Personally I would suggest adding feats to the game for whips. Add a feat that gives the whip extra damage, or another feat that might allow one to use their bonus action to grapple or disarm an opponent if all attacks were made with a whip on their turn.

[@Shaso-xv3tw]

That being said, whip monks are hilarious because there’s a couple ways you can use your martial arts damage die instead of your whip damage die, which at high level ends up with a monk doing 1d10 damage with each whip attack…

[@benjaminholcomb9478]

The bigger fix for it would be to make it light rather than making it simple. Then it can be dual weilded without a feat which lets you get an additional attack with it. 1. It fits the weapon better. 2. Its easier to get weapon proficiency than the dual wielding feat. 3. Higher high for the damage output.

[@cirrus2472]

Ended up making a Tabaxi Fathomless warlock whip user, and gave them the slasher feat. So they reduce an enemy’s speed by 20 feet before running away. Should start playing them within a month!

[@f.a.santiago1053]

In every table I have played, booming blade's range is the range of your melee attack with the weapon. Also, Bugbear Paladin with Whip feels SO cool.

[@vaunkillion262]

This reminds me of my 3.5 whip rapier rouge, where the whip got a trip attack and attacking prone enemies got lots of bonuses, so the duel wielding rouge attack pattern was whip, trip, stab, move.

[@seanpalmer8207]

So glad to see a video that embraces a whip for what it CAN do instead of what it can’t. It’s one of my favorite weapons in 5e. I have a similar ranger build to what you described except it’s a Shadar Kai Swarmkeeper. It allows a whip to shine with enhanced mobility and the ability to deliver powered strikes at a distance (the main value for a Dex focused martial). I agree with sharing the whip with a few other classes like bards and rogues. Also, a homebrew feat that allows grapple/trip should be reasonable for most DMs. Finally, I don’t care that the damage is only d4. I care more about minimum damage than maximum. Rolling a one on a rapier is just as bad as any other weapon, but a one on a whip still gets your Dex and Dueling bonus and lets you hit at a distance.

[@TheRayray1212]

made a dworf ranger a year ago. that would use a whip with oil flask to add fire damage and have my pet tank right in front of me it work real well in most case

[@MoiraMcGill]

Honestly, I think the sling is done the dirtiest in D&D xD It's a weapon that's deadly IRL yet only does 1d4 damage xD

[@thekaxmax]

set to 1d6 when used with lead bullets instead of rocks.

[@rich63113]

1d4 is deadly. PCs aren't normal people.

[@Lionrhod212]

That's a very interesting build, and I'll have to look into it. But let's talk about whips for a moment and think about where 5e gets them wrong. Whips are a rather common tool used by farmers, and especially drovers/animal handlers. Therefore, while it does take some practice to use accurately, there's no reason I wouldn't allow a character (no matter their class) to use a whip if they have farming/animal handling/driving wagons or carriages as a background. Whips absolutely should get a grapple option, no matter the other grapple rules. It is very obvious that a whip should be able to coil around someone's leg or arm, or around a stalagtite, beam or other object. and allow you to either swing pull the opponent out of balance or swing on like a vine. (See Indiana Jones.) Whips also create a sonic boom, which IMO should be capable of "stunning" a creature or sending them into non-magical fear/flight reaction. (Especially if they've been hit by a whip previously in their lives. Further, whips should be able to knock small objects off shelves or out of the grasp of people holding them, and potentially, shattering the item, assuming its made of a fragile substance, such as glass/crystal. For example, I would allow a whip to shatter a potion bottle held in the enemy's hand (assuming a good roll).

[@jamesonstalanthasyu]

I played a grandma dwarf monk kensei whose primary weapon was usually the whip.

[@MrPatrizzo]

Thanks för the vid. I now have to get a whip for my hexblade/swashbuckler rogue. It fits so perfectly with the pirate theme I’m going for. 😅

[@MerabuHalcyon]

Currently workshopping a character who is half-drow, a warlock follower of Asmodeus, and obsessed with the fighting styles of the Balor. Needless to say she WILL be attempting to acquire their electric vorpal sword and flame whip by the end of the campaign.

[@MauroDraco]

I’ve made a whip specialist feat for this very reason.

[@chrislieu6757]

Elves can take weapon proficiencies through trance

[@haraldalan8711]

Slashing feat + extreme mobility 💪🏽

[@imkerrusin]

There are a few feats that work well with the whip. Slasher (as mentioned) is one. Weapon Master is also a viable option to choose as well. The Monk class also has a feat called dedicated weapon that can be selected as well. (Yes, the whip is in there.) Most of the feats pertain to your dedicate stat score. If done right, you could get a plus 7 added to your damage pool with it if your dedicated ability score is high enough. :)

[@jlinus7251]

My dm homebrewed my monk a whip that could cast fireball once a day. It was the best whip, even if it was cursed to turn everyone it into a pyromaniac

[@pwnyboy9714]

My Whip user was also a Hunter though I went with the Drake Warden Subclass I also took three levels in Warlock. I played a Kobold and used my Drake for Pack Tactics and damage boosts. Played him like a shinobi in service to an Ancient Silver Dragon to justify the Marid Genie-lock levels. Reflavored my whip as a Kusarigama and stacked Hunters Mark, the Drakes Infused Strikes reaction and finally, Genies wrath to boost my weapons damage. My most used spell was starting the fight with Spike Growth so that nothing could get away from my party locking it down and my weapon damage was basically just used as a burst button if I needed to take down a single target VERY quickly in the streets lol. Imagine getting hit with a chain sickle and a rime of jagged ice crystals sweeps up at the chain into your open wound lol

[@destinpatterson1644]

A very simple change that I now think I'll do in my games is just give the Rogue and monk proficiency in martial weapons, like it's weird that the rogue doesn't, and it is for the monk too. But now the monk has an optional rule where they can give themselves proficiency in a martial weapon of their choice when they take a long rest. Why not just give martial proficiency and cut out the weirdness?

[@rich63113]

"Martial Weapons Profiency" is basically a proxy for "Spent time in formal military/weapons training". Simple weapons are supposed to be things farmers/etc use in uprisings. The whip is weird. It takes a ton of skill to use a whip as a weapon - so Martial makes sense in that respect - but there's not a whole lot of history of armies using whips. The real problem is that WotC has been super inconsistent with weapons. Martial weapons are supposed to be 1d8 (1h) or 1d10 (2h) (simple are 1d6 and 1d8) Heavy increases the damage dice, Reach lowers it. Finesse and Light both lower it. So the whip starts at 1d8, has two negatives, ends up at 1d4. Works fine. The issue is that, again, they're super inconsistent. The Rapier should be 1d6 (1d8-finesse). Short swords and scimitars should probably be 1d4 (finesse, light). There's just no good reason the whip should be two dice steps below the Rapier. It's like someone moved it from simple to martial and forgot to increase the dice.

[@destinpatterson1644]

@@rich63113 In my games I've recently changed the Heavy property to be that you're attacks are made with disadvantage unless you have a strength of 15 or higher. I've also made a new property called Elegant that's the same but with Dexterity instead, and I gave it to the rapier and the whip, and increased the whips die to a d6

[@blinddog4288]

I play a Zhent paladin who was a slaver and so started with chain, shield, whip and sword. At 2nd lvl would use divine smite, and at 5th dual classed into warlock - pack of the blade. I was a human, lawful evil and my dm allowed me a feat at 1st lvl - whip master (+1 hit/dam 1d6d) He revolted from the Zhents for having wronged him and now groups with the party for his betterment while pursuing and torturing and zhent he can find. He doesn’t do the most damage, but is fun RPing.

[@ntorix599]

3 in battle master with brace, menacing attack and pushing attack. Whip increases the triggering area of brace. Menacing attack with whip makes it so enemy's cant get closer, and if they move away, they get an attack of opportunity, which with Sentinel stops them from moving. Then multiclass into rogue for sneak attack on all those reaction attacks for great dmg. This build revolves around keeping enemies away from both you and your allies while getting a bunch of reaction attacks, which rogues benefit from the most and is only possible with a whip. For the rogue subclass, I'd recommend inquisitive for consistent sneak attacks (with insightful fighting) because the whole point is to keep enemies away from allies so you won't benefit from its typical trigger.

[@bardblunt]

Well now I worry about killing a certain Glowing One...

[@gurugru5958]

That's a really impressive use of whips.

[@ernestlam5632]

Whips should at least have a built-in whip-crack intimidation feature.

[@23gameoverlord]

I'm using a whip using Battle Master Fighter/Ranger multiclass, that uses the Dueling Fighting Style, Maneuvers to deal extra DMG & cc my opponent, while also using Ranger spells that are Bonus Act. to boost my DMG more like Zypher Strike. So right now I've been dealing: 1D4 + the +2 from my F.S + the 1D6 from Zypher Strike & another 1D8 from Manuvers that add DMG. At minimum I'm dealing: 5 on lowest of rolls. But at the highest rolls I'm dealing: 20 DMG. (And this is not including whatever Atk boost from my Stat.)

[@Capense-q9m]

damn just saw a video about how this is an underrated weapon

[@KarakTo]

Best feats for whip: Slasher & Fighting Style Initiate: Duelist

[@xiongray]

Feat(s): Defensive Duelist, Slasher, Savage Attacker, Charger, Crossbow Expert*, Dual Wielder Classes: Monk Background: Archeologist (Dust Digger: Grab the Whip, no no no, not the ten foot pole...) Background Feature: Strike of the Giants (choose any; I'm going Hill Giant) Tiny Caveat: Ask the DM, if you can swap Monk's single Martial Weapon Proficiency in Shortswords for Whips, otherwise play any Race that grants Weapon proficiencies & swap them. Monk's Monk Weapon uses the higher of the two Damage die: Weapon or Martial Arts. With Whips using d4, you can see improvements at... 5th level for a d6. Just in time for extra attack. Then 11th level for a d8. That's not bad as you unlock your subclass abilities at the same time. 17th level for a d10. Your subclass capstone ability. These are the same levels Cantrips upgrade at. Defensive Duelist: Gives you an AC boost in a pinch and generally speaking, you'll know whether doing so will make the Attack miss. (...unless you got a DM who doesn't give the numerical Attack results like Crits for instance... making it a guessing game by just saying, it hits. It works better with a higher AC so the DM checks in with you with, "21 hits?") Slasher: Reducing Speed, this sounds like it hurts physical, lashings on the skin kind of pain. It may not seem like much but with a Whip, generally at a safe distance, you could theoretically lock down a foe or in the very least, keep at a safe distance afterwards. Maybe they Dash forward, maybe they Dash away. Savage Attacker: This is nice. Not necessary with a d4, but no matter the die, rerolling 1's always feel good. Charger: This is fun, dedicates an entire turn to do, but fun. This is mini-Great Weapon Master with its +5 to damage. It's got the option to push and you could push allies. And! You can still run away. Crossbow Expert: While two of the the bullets don't work, the last one does with Whip, a one-handed Weapon to make an attack with a Hand Crossbow with a Bonus Action. This is more optimal than Dual Wielder. Which leads us to... Dual Wielder: What's better than a Whip? That's right, TWO Whips. When doing so, should probably look into Fighter Initiate: Two-Weapon Fighting. Strike of the Giants: Comes with six flavors, and an optional 4th level Feat upgrade. I choose Hill Giant for the chance to knock Prone, giving the Whip a flavorful "tripping Maneuver."

[@alexboggs6416]

My friends and I did a homebrew where I could sacrifice damage on a hit for a guaranteed grapple.

[@Jesscrayons]

I used a wip for a 5e campaign on a ranger as there primary and only weapon that whole campaign. Worked grate tbh and was fun.

[@textoffender3410]

I definitely agree that rogues should get proficiency anyway, but there are multiple races that allow you to get a whip proficiency (a few of the trance races, such as eladrin and shadar kai). You can also take a half feat to get proficiency, which isnt too bad.

[@TheFearsomeRat]

The changes I'd make, Whips can grapple, disarm, etc., change them to Simple, and to kinda steal from Elden Ring's idea of making them a unparriable weapon type, can ignore a portion of AC (2 points which is what most smaller shields give last I checked) and if a enemy can attempt to hit you as a reaction for attacking, nope, can't do that.

[@dario5178]

A Paladin-Rogue multiclass can really utilise a whip well. smite + sneak attack = fun

[@dicyanoacetylene6220]

Not sure why one would go for a regular whip, when a bull whip can reach 20 feet. Depending on how it's implemented, that's an additional 10-15 ft of reach (depending on if the 10 ft reach is player reach+whip length, or just whip length). We'll say it's just the extra 10ft for a total reach of 20ft. The first thing that came to mind after letting it grapple is let the thing hit around corners. If you're a whip master, you should be able to yank someone off their feet blind (just take it at disadvantage with a ¾ cover AC bonus if it otherwise seems too powerful)

[@ActuallyDad]

I too love the whip. But! Can we talk about how redundant the Trident is? It’s an expensive spear. Why! I made a pirate once and was eager to use a trident. I was surprised and disappointed that 2 more points don’t add any damage for some reason.

[@piranhaplantX]

Do you want the mechanics reason or the physics one? Mechanically, I dunno. Due to the lack of secondary weapon effects, there are a few arguably redundant weapons that exist purely for flavor. Glaive is another purely redundant choice. As for why it wouldn't just do the same damage, but less than a regular spear. It's because more points of contact does nothing but disperse the force you put into the target. This is why these sort of designs were never actually used for war on any kind of meaningful scale.

[@gschneyer]

In regard to the grapple aspect, what about for a Monk?

[@thekaxmax]

Take the daggerwhip from 3.0/3.6: about twice the price, 1d6. Also add whip to the rogue list, makes sense--they can use them for climbing and, with some care, grabbing stuff. No problem a mage researching a variant version of Booming Blade that uses the old wording. Note: 3.0 had a Whip Master prestige class that could easily be set up both as a rogue and a fighter subclass. It included being able to grab things at 15' as if using your hand, plus using it for climbing and tripping.

[@Valerie-g3g]

I like to keep the base whip as a simple weapon, then make an alternate barbed whip that counts as martial ups the damage die to a d6, and give Rogues proficiency with it. Makes it more viable as a martial weapon, and keeps the cool Rogue flavor.

[@huntermccuistion]

What if you tied a dagger to the end of your whip and cast booming blade on the dagger?

[@OculusObscurum]

Probably too late to the party at this point but: Bugbear Fighter/Monk multiclass. Just one level of Fighter to start you off (better starting Hit Points, all the weapons you'll need, and all the armor you won't, plus Fighting Style and Second Wind). Then, straight Monk. 2nd level of Monk gets you Dedicated Weapon (which now includes Whips as an option) and 3rd level gets you your subclass: Astral Self. Whip + Bugbear = 15ft reach with weapons. Arms of the Astral Self + Bugbear = 15ft reach with Flurry of Blows. All of your attacks will be coming from outside the reach of even a polearm wielder, and Unarmored Movement means they'll never catch you.

[@starat2645]

Re: whip proficiency, a big reason I’m a fan of Tasha’s is Customize Your Origin allows you to get interesting weapon proficiencies without multiclassing (or taking weapon master)! Elves and dwarves get weapon proficiencies that they can swap, with simple weapons being able to be traded for other simple weapons or tools and martial weapons being able to be traded for either two or other martial weapons. This means your wood elf rogue can have heavy crossbow proficiency, whip proficiency, and than maybe two extra tools. I think it can also make for interesting backstory and worldbuilding. You are trained in the whip only because you are an elf, how’d it happen?

[@starat2645]

Listening to the build and it seems interesting, though there are definitely other ways to make good use of it If you want to play a defensive hexblade, u can go CL and take slasher, take the gift of the gem dragon feat at 4th level to boost cha and have a reaction pushback feature, and than grab Eldritch smite to knock and enemy prone and make up for the low damage dice of the whip. Reduce their speed by 10 and knock them prone! You can add onto this by using summon shadowspawn and getting the shadow that reduces enemy movement speed or spirit shroud and stay 10 ft away to reduce their speed. So you can hit an enemy and reduce their speed by 20 ft while maintaining a 19 AC w half-plate and a shield Another is as a backup weapon for a scout rogue. They use a ranged weapon w sharpshooter usually, but have the whip as backup to hit in melee while still being able to kite Monk is a possibility, grab the whip through race, feat, or multiclass, or go kensei, and you have a whip that will scale in damage dice, can make stunning strikes from 10 ft and pairs nicely w the very high movement of the monk. This one’s a bit nonspecific but it’s a base I really like the whip because of its unique set of properties and it’s underdog narrative and it’s underuse. I will forever miss the spell sniper whip arcane trickster, may they live on in our hearts Edit: basically slasher and kiting is the key, with on-hit damage bonuses being more valuable than for GWM/SS builds

[@toddwardle4395]

Why not use a whip with Blade dancer mage?

[@benjaminholcomb9478]

This might be an NPC build in the near future. I also think im going give the whip the light property in my game

[@Halosty45]

The only real benefit is being the only reach weapon with finesse and/or that uses one hand. Still, the ability to use a shield with it might be good enough reason to use it on a conquest paladin. Their aura of conquest means that an enemy frightened of you cannot move. The aura extends 10 feat, which means a reach weapon can attack them but if they don't have a reach weapon of their own (or a ranged weapon, technically) they can't reciprocate. Not that relevant for single enemies as you could simply step up and then away from them, but if you get several enemies in an area you can use Conquering Presence to lock them all down and stay out of the reach of all of them. Or just use a good weapon, polearm master, sentinel, and don't bother with a shield.

[@Jaster69]

I’d like to believe that changes the Whip should receive in order to turn it into an actual usable weapon are as follows: 1. Instead of a 10 foot reach, give it a 15 foot reach instead. It was like this in older editions and it should’ve stayed that way. I’ve run Whips this way and while they might still get used rarely, at least players wanna actually use em now! 2. Give the Whip bonuses to specific actions the players can make against creatures, such as a +2 bonus when making Disarm and Tripping Actions!

[@herddragon9215]

I think the easiest way to home-brew would to allow whips to grapple without needing a free hand. And/or make it a simple weapon.

[@esbeng.s.a9761]

Here is my whip build Race bugbear give 5 feet of reach 1 lvl rogue take expertise in insight 2 lvl ranger (you get martial weapons) 3-4 lvl in rogue take inquisitive insight fighting give you advantages as a bonus action if your insight beats their deception chech 5-6 lvl ranger get dueling and swarm keeper

[@nithia]

1d4 slashing finesse, reach martial if you have martial weapons you have a bunch of better options for reach weapons that do more damage if you are using dex for your attacks then you are using ranged weapons until it is time to get into melee and then you are using something like a rapier you cant use it as an off hand weapon without a feat as it is not considered light I made a bladesinger that used a whip once, but this was before they made it so you could not use booming blade with the whip at its full range. At 6th level you got 2 attacks and one of them could be a cantrip so of course it was almost always booming blade. This character could still work but the cantrip would have to be something else now. A whip is still listed in bladsinger lore as someone using the Snake Style. Also as a wizard you have some other spells you can still use to buff your whips damage output or lock down the battlefield in a similar way to the ranger build mentioned in the video. Another that could work is a whip wielding blade pact warlock though just like with other classes that get access to martial weapons there are other reach weapons that do more damage. However, those use STR and the whip can use DEX so you can still build a warlock that dumps STR for DEX and CHA and have a reach weapon. However if you go Hexblade then you can use your CHA for any of the reach weapons so there is no need to use a whip to avoid taking STR in that case, but that is only if you go with Hexblade as I like most of the others better outside of just going for a melee warlock build that you would get from Hexblade. It also makes for an ok option for a paladin that is going to be using a shield but wants reach. The whip can be used to deliver your smite attacks with reach and you use your AC and feats to keep enemy's away from your party. As the whip is a finesse weapon you can use your STR to attack with it if you are not taking a lot of DEX due to your armor in this case too. The issue with the whip is that it is so sub optimal that you have to come up with very centered build to work around the weapon and it has to be because you want to just use the whip for the fun of the lore behind your character and no other reason.

[@DarkFoncho]

Finally, a good and fun build to play like a whip user. I watched several videos about it but really don't like the idea of Paladin...I love that the concept does not necessarily have to be optimized.

[@moshelandon295]

Tbh the whip is my favorite dnd weapon. A one-handed, finesse, reach weapon unlocks a lot more builds than you would think.

[@akmi1931]

There’s an existing weapon in the rules, the hooked spear, which has the very property that the whip should have had. Which is, “when you attack with this weapon, you can forgo the damage and instead make a trip attack using your attack roll” This is what the whip should have had. Unfortunately, it would probably make it a special property, which makes it useless as a monk’s weapon. But since you wouldn’t be doing damage anyway, that might not be so bad

[@jamesbuckingham9072]

Fun video. I would like to attempt to answer your initial question. Why is the whip such a lousy weapon? Probably because it was never designed to be a weapon. It's something that people can use as one, but generally not very effectively unless they put a lot of effort into developing special techniques to do so. Look through history. How often did people use whips on the battlefield? It's not like the game designers sat down and said 'whips are stupid, let's give them really bad statistics. ' I'm not saying this to denigrate your efforts; I love doing the same thing. I don't think this build would have occurred to me. Just pounding out that, to my mind, you're starting from a faulty premise. I look forward to what you come up with next.

[@Grungeon_Master]

Of course, from a historicism perspective, you're absolutely right. In a historical simulationist game, the whip should be substandard as a matter of course. Arguably, in a game with magic, fantasy beasts, and spell concentration, I can see whip users existing as guards in remorhaz-infested ice, or as an intimidation tool to try (mechanically unsuccessfully ofc) to break concentration? Nonetheless, I actually feel that the whip has its niche in 5e's design. In fact, it almost perfectly mirrors the niche use cases I just described. It's almost never the best option, unless you make it so, and build a character as a specialist. After all, all dnd 5e characters are specialist heroes, doing things the "weird" way. Oh, and glad you enjoyed! Sorry, I tend to get caught up in such ideas, especially where I can make them cross over with worldbuilding.

[@goldensajti9022]

give whip the ability to hit enemy as bonus action and use that as taunt or scary others

[@Donnerjack93]

I had a player for a one-shot powerbuild a ranged character to hell and back... then only used darts because he thought that heavy crossbows and long bows used Strength not Dex. He still did tons of damage with his darts though

[@kcrad1527]

If you think this is bad, the sickle uses STR. Why on earth would using a sickle as a weapon require strength and physical prowess when attempts to use sickles in HEMA end up with a focus on control and dexterity. Id love for OneDnD to flesh out the weapon catalogue properly this time around.

[@CamachoElMacho]

I just saw this video now and I'm having trouble understanding why booming blade/spell sniper/whip build doesn't work anymore?? It wasn't clear from the video why you can't do it.

[@Grungeon_Master]

Because booming blade has a range of self, now, instead of a 5ft range

[@stephenhughes7062]

i just wanna be a fucking belmont and be useful at the same time

[@RoninCatholic]

Use a flail. The Vampire Killer turns into a spiked ball on a chain when you grab a powerup, downgrading back to a leather bullwhip is a punishment for dying.

[@dextra_24703]

You could make a Belmont by going for a bit of paladin and rogue multi classing.

[@trentos.]

Now I am going to have Summer or H.R. have a whip. Just for you my DM

[@QuiteNephilim612]

You can move as a reaction if they end their turn within five feet of you not before they make the attack so it's not as useful.

[@RadeFoxxy]

Whips are AWESOME....in Pathfinder 2e! 🎉 In the PF re-tool Rogues are now trained in Martial Weapons too, so 2 points for PF2e!

[@whiskeyhound]

Been a while since I looked at optimising anything in 5e, wonder if there's a way to turn caltrops into something that can actually kill an enemy.

[@Lionrhod212]

Interesting question. My first thought would be to poison the caltrops, either with an alchemical or herbal poison, or to coat them with excrement (like punji sticks). How fast the caltrop would work would depend on the particular poison involved. Another use for caltrops would be at the bottom of a pit or other sharp drop, where it would enhance the amount of falling damage.

[@iratami]

Mono molecular wire/ mono filament wire/ razor floss "think the butler from Hellsing or Lubbock's Cross Tail from AGK". 10ft range, 2D6 slashing damage, 2 handed finesse weapon that can make a bonus action attack "So you can do 4D6 a turn should you choose". Double weapon mastery feat ups it to 2D8. Is it official. no, not in the slightest. would it still be a badass weapon? absolutely

[@omous7770]

Very powerful. Most finesse weapons and dexterity weapons max out at a d10, and being able to make another attack as a bonus action is very potent as well. I would suggest nerfing the damage die down to a d8, and making the bonus action attack not add on your dexterity modifier. Still very good, especially at lower levels

[@iratami]

@@omous7770 oh I didnt come up with the stats. I was just looking for something similar to the fantasy weapon. I think its intentionally over powered given of the weapon is used in fiction "being able to cut through building and being near invisible" But yeah, for a more practical less OP version I'd definitely reduce it to something like a single D8 or 2D4 to imply its more reliabley able to do moderate damage. Keeping it as a 2 handed weapon so the same feet can up it to 1D10 or 2D6. and give it a concealment bonus since its otherwise indistinguishable from a regular glove. Would probably want to give it some drawback as well with how strong it can be as a finess weapon like not being able to apply poisons to it or something

[@RoninCatholic]

Goes right alongside atomic hammers and lightsabers.

[@catkook543]

based off this video, if the whip were to be buffed seems like it should really be bumped down into a simple weapon, or if not then give rogues whip proficincy

[@EPICOfficialTeam]

im confused as to why spell sniper doesnt work anymore? what part of the new wording has it saying that it doesnt work?

[@Grungeon_Master]

It's the change to booming blade. Spell sniper doubles a spell's range if it has one, but booming blade and green flame blade both now have a range of 'self' instead of the old '5ft'.

[@bananadane]

I asked dm to let me make whip my hexblade conjures weapon w/o taking martial weapons, that worked well

[@bananadane]

Charm person runes on the whip which can be refreshed every long rest, please

[@renanbrayner984]

You are wrong about the reaction to run 10ft, the reaction is when an enemy ENDS ITS TURN in a 5ft range of you not when the enemy enters the 5ft range.

[@infinitesheldon5710]

I genuinely feel like whips should be simple weapons. Simple weapons are supposed to represent the weapons that lay-persons who take up arms in times of desperation would be capable of using. Knives (daggers), axes, hammers, sickles. All things that an average person might use in their day-to-day, requiring no training in the ways of combat to utilize. Historically, whips weren't uncommon on farms, as a tool for handling animals. They weren't really used as weapons of war, didn't require any special martial training to utilize. Totally fitting with the idea of simple tools that common folk would have access to for battle. This alone would make whips far more viable in D&D, with almost every class in the game getting access to them.

[@mervius68]

At 6:07: "Even though the whip is a finesse weapon, and could have sneak attack on it, it's not allowed by the rules, because you can't be proficient in it." Where is there a rule in 5e that a rogue has to be proficient with a weapon in order to get sneak attack with it? From the PHB, Sneak Attack: "Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe's distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon."

[@Grungeon_Master]

Ooh, nice spot. Yep. I definitely phrased that wrong. You absolutely can sneak attack with the whip. It's just not very effective, as you're not likely to hit in the first place due to bounded accuracy. The same basic idea, though.

[@frosted_moon]

Ok but whip guy as a bbeg thou Ha!ha hahaha!!!

[@peterrasmussen4428]

It's funny to me how people think hit and run builds are this amazing "you can't hit me, this is crazy" kinda thing. But you know bows do that way better. I can see why it would be fun and tactical to play, but powerful, not so much.

[@mineflameblade8788]

Pathfinder2e did a lot to make whips viable. Especially since you don't have to be a martial to get it. One way to get profincy is to be a cleric of Calistra. The savoured sting. For example. You could be a warpriest of her and the whip can be available. But if you want to stick with dnd. Pray for one dnd to buff whips and other underused weapons.

[@LasseROM]

Watched the entire video and was waiting for the monks Dedicated Weapon feature to be mentioned. Never did. 1d10 whip on a dex/wisdom monk...

[@Grungeon_Master]

Sure, as long as the monk in question has some way to wrangle proficiency in this martial weapon, which they don't get as a base proficiency. Proficiency in a weapon is a requirement for dedicated weapon, after all. It's the same trouble as the rogue, unfortunately. Unless you're one of a couple of niche species, take a feat, or multiclass, your monk can't use their dedicated weapon on a whip.

[@wbbartlett]

I'd rather be struck by a whip than stabbed by a dagger. A dagger can kill you in one strike (though obviously not in 5e, where nothing can kill you). A whip can't. Why increase damage?

[@Grungeon_Master]

certainly not in favour of increasing the damage, but it is important to note that a whip strike to the neck could easily kill, as could a dagger in the same spot. There's a reason why whips were only used as punishment on certain areas of the body. Heck, a punch can kill you in one strike in our world. I feel like it's a weird metric to judge by, when Hit Points are a huge abstraction anyway.

[@RoninCatholic]

@@Grungeon_Master A dagger is still likely to kill you in more spots than a whip will. This is part of what damage ranges and critical hits are supposed to represent (as well as the original intent of having individual peoples' HP in the single digits and sometimes as low as 1, rolling at first level instead of getting a guaranteed 10+CON bonus). Realistic reactions to being stabbed, punched, and shot would only be fun for certain types of people LOL.

[@Meloncolliepoet]

The whip's been nerfed since 1st ed. :( I my games, I upped the damage to 1D6, and told the grapple rules to honk on bobo. Until Gary Gygax crawls from his grave and comes after me for changing rules on my own whims, people can just not play in my games if they don't like my changes.

[@RoninCatholic]

Gygax would actually strongly approve you changing the rules from what's written in the book. His own table apparently ignored the penalties on rolls from sub-10 ability scores, at least towards the end of his lifetime.

[@lucamonticelli267]

The whip is the sum of a lot of problems with 5e combat design: -Movement being free essentially makes the ability to attack a further enemy without moving is not that important -attacks of opportunity not triggering on approach make reach not that useful -one handed melee weapons do not benefit from any of the damage boosting feats making them lag behind quite a lot. -ranged weapons dealing the same, if not more, damage than melee while being way more safe makes the existence of a "Frontline tank" not a very useful or even necessary role.

[@jonothanthrace1530]

Has the whip ever been good in d&d?

[@RoninCatholic]

No, and it's never been a good weapon IRL either. In fact if anything even the 1d2 damage it did in 3e was generous.