Will these make EVERY STUDIO sound GREAT? || Dutch&Dutch 8C REVIEW

Dutch & Dutch: dutchdutch.com
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EXTRA CONTENT: / whiteseastudio
STUDIO: whiteseastudio.com
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INDEX:
00:00 - Intro
00:44 - The looks
02:03 - Why?
03:02 - Boundary Coupling
06:58 - Don't cup the speaker!
07:39 - Off Axis response
10:09 - Room EQ Calibration
11:58 - Do you need bass-traps?
12:50 - My opinion
15:00 - Engineer presets
17:29 - Expensive?
18:33 - Disclaimer and thanks
19:06 - Outro

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

Nice review. Killer speakers. Best I have tested so far. Keep up the good work!

[@dougyfresh2054]

I own these. Best speakers I ever heard. I can't stop listening to music on them. All my mixes translate beautifully on other sources. Worth the investment!! Great review !

[@domdraper3221]

They cost more than I earn in 10 years

[@dougleydorite]

Can you bypass the DSP and get direct sound?

[@DJURBANBG]

I just ordered a pair of 8C ! Do you think you need Mixcubes like Auratone with these ones ? Thanks

[@ChestermereTimes]

Hello, how would you compare them against PMC 6-2? Thank you.

[@MrVodKanocker]

Same. I came here to see how speaker cost as house in my country and why and still im not impressed

[@thequeenisdeadrecords]

Thank you for always searching for answers and delivering everything you know, believe in or think. It is always very interesting!

[@UmbraCrowMusic]

thanks for this review. I have been seriously considering getting these for a while now.

[@djcaptkirk]

This channel is so helpful. Thank you.

[@yaboiristy5078]

very well explained. i'm from Philippines and i loved your content keep it up

[@Audio_Simon]

As a speaker designer (who's speakers you've reviewed) I have to say this is a superb review. Tech details spot on. Love the EQ illustrations and your analogies. Just great work Wytse!

[@Whiteseastudio]

Which speakers did I review?

[@Whiteseastudio]

Oooh, wait! The Little British right? 😱

[@SundayAfternoonModular]

Wow, I first thought those are passive radiators on the back, but it's really two woofers. Nice review, very interesting, thanks!

[@danielattali]

Great review Wytse, I love how you use audio examples to illustrate these complex topics, educational AND entertaining! Unfortunately all I could think about was the dichotomy of how it's supposed to interact with your room so acoustic problems aren't an issue but the people who have acoustic problems aren't the people who have the money to afford a speaker like this. So if you buy this speaker, you are most likely already in a treated room. Hopefully in the future when this technology becomes more commonplace it can also become more accessible to the people who need it the most.

[@ardierr.2525]

i was waiting for this one

[@johnbach2380]

Man I've been looking at these for like 2 years now... thanks for making my GAS even more GASSY sir.

[@noisevector]

In the end it's all about translation to other sound systems. It's perfectly fine to EQ your monitoring system as long as you know the end result will be good on other systems. Sonarworks does a great job for me to eliminate resonant peaks and my mixes really translate well to other systems. But then again, producing oldschool analog colored techno may not be as demanding. I tend to not care too much about the final mix and just have fun producing music.

[@RadiumRecordsHollywood]

The fact that you're reviewing these monitors just earned my respect... Most don't even know about these! Cheers man!

[@djsb90597]

Thanks for the nice review

[@DonnieMulligan]

Great Review!

[@DavidPalmer_blinder]

that's a very clever design. a bit on the pricey side, yes. i recently went from NS10s to Frontiers (by Output) and i do have some treatment to cut down on reflections (against a brick wall i have in my studio space)... but here's the thing. when i'm mixing or just listening, i have my db meter app and i never let the level go over -70dB, and that means not a ton of reflections at all, my mixes tend to translate better because my brain isn't being tricked into thinking louder is better. i don't know, it works for me, but yeah just working within limitations and a $3.99 app pretty much helped "fix" any major reflection problems.

[@japface]

next try the genelec 8351/61 with the w371 bass stands! (don't forget the essential GLM kit too - you can also attenuate the high frequencies post room eq on these, just like the d&d)

[@darbinyan5201]

Cool video. is there a chance you will do Geithain RL 901K in future?

[@mainterm]

Great video! How would they compare to "The Sphere" by Mischa Jacobi that you reviewed? Provided both rooms are decently treated! Thanks!!

[@jdstarek]

I liked the the intro.

[@codycreepcore]

In regards to your preferred lessening of the high frequencies, I always thought your mixes had an 'airy' quality to them, which sounded very 'you' if that makes sense. Maybe due to the less high frequencies in your mix room?

[@skennymane]

If you like a more rounded sound up top you should try out the Neumann KH monitors. I used the calibration and loved them in my fully treated room. Translation was great but I always felt I wanted a little extra air up top. Might be perfect for your ears!!

[@st33Npuist]

Better buy PSI instead and skip Neumann

[@marcloopin]

Had these speakers for two years now amazing sound the stereo imaging is like nothing I’ve heard on listening to many different speakers.

[@DJURBANBG]

Do you think you need mixcubes like Auratone with 8c ?

[@CeZarMusic]

I would really do a Dirac Live test for your studio, I have this feeling that you'll love the software and probably keep it, provided you have a measuring mic... The difference it makes in phase and eq are really amazing, a lot more than Sonarworks...

[@nachoseret5480]

Would also love to see a review of a more affordable pair like the APS Klasik 2020

[@SanctusKain]

Thank you very much for the amazing and smart way of reviewing the speakers. Btw I have the same problem with the high frequency and I was thinking that there is something wrong with me haha. You are great and thank you for the content.

[@MaxPower-zp7wy]

Could these speakers be used for normal home hi fi audiophiles listening enjoyment ? Or are they only for Recording Studios ?

[@MeltdownDJ]

Genelec can work in any room with their GLM kit that make speaker correction :) so i think they are also easy to implement in bad acoustic room and they are a lot of cheaper ^^ i think i really prefer to choose genelec 8351b or 8361a for the price of the 8C ^^

[@DJURBANBG]

Good luck with the Genelec being more accurate than 8c 😄

[@JAMPROSOUND]

Very cool idea. I'm essentially doing the same thing but manually and with a massive amount of time and learning invested. In fact, the amount of time I have into my system would make the price tag of the 8C make sense and present serious value. My rig doesn't look nearly as sexy though and I'm sure my results are not neck and neck with these.

[@DjNC7]

How do these compare to kii studio monitors?

[@caspermaster-com]

You diddn't mention what you think about the sound except the freq adjustment you made, what did you think about it?

[@Kkidzz]

Yep...happy with my HEDD 20's

[@phasA100]

I would really like to check out you’re REW File... especially the waterfall Diagram.

[@Whiteseastudio]

I think I have that one somewhere…

[@Petran892]

I would like a review like that of the genelec 8341 with genelecs sam technology. Since they are more in my price range.

[@martijn_nl]

Imho the most important message of this video is the fact Wytse mentions what he calls his personal calibration or baseline. Over time every engineer develops a personal reference based on his/her own experience and environment ( speakers /acoustics ). That's why the debate on best monitors will never end. Instant flat response only makes life easier.

[@ugobonus3190]

Nice!

[@arkh1730]

Miccing speakers works but u need a reaally good stereo pair and a really well treated space...fully anechoic and it will work to some extent...u will be listening trouggh something that wont be able fo reproduce the sound exactly if its worse...if u have full range system u should be able to ear the different colorations

[@georgepelekoudis]

Interesting technologies emerging. I’m sure they sound good...And what about your prototypes? They going to eventually be production models?

[@Whiteseastudio]

Yes

[@GingerDrums]

I love them. The kii three are the better choice for me mixing at low levels with neighbours.

[@soundhealer8661]

About the so called flat response there's something misunderstood by most engineers. It's that if humans ears listen to each frequency with the exact same amount of volume it won't be percieved as flat because our ears are design to amplify certain frequencies and are less sensible to others. The range around 2khz til 4khz will have a very high volume percieved. The more you go to the bass frequencies and the more the level percieved will be low. That's why I'm always using bassy headphones cause they do compensate our ears sensibility and bring a closer flat response. Especially if there's a dip around 3khz. Very cool speakers by the way and good channel as well. Take care

[@ScottCervelo]

If the music is mixed to sound "good" on flat speakers or headphones the mix engineer "compensates" for the human hearing by taste. If you then use bass heavy headphones i.e. (not flat) the music will have more bass then the mix engineer intended because he mixed on speakers with a flat response.

[@soundhealer8661]

@@ScottCervelo it really depends wich music engineer. Most will obviously do like they've been told and few like me will do different. I make my own mix since 15 years, I have mastered few albums from different bands and no one ever complain about too much bass in my mix or even too less. When you do mix on bassy speakers or headphones the trouble you could have is to be a bit weak on the bass side. On speakers or headphones lacking bass it's the exact opposite, you tend to add too much bass. So it's a matter of taste and training. As I said above the real flat response might be bass heavy and it's for me the only way to hear and feel exactly what's going on in the sub range frequencies. I feel it's easier to tweak something you really hear. The so called flat speakers are an illusion. I've seen so many frequency response curves from high end studio monitoring and none of them ever show a flat response. There are always dips and bumps whatever the brand. Some do come close but not perfectly flat. Anyhow I think a flat response would be irritating to work with. The only trick that works it's to know exactly how a good production sound on your speakers and from there you can have good results. That's how I roll

[@Iulian.I]

The room correction is dsp based? If yes, does it add latency? Cause most speakers with this feature add latency and it's really annoying to play keys listening through them.

[@Whiteseastudio]

There is a low latency setting

[@olafkliemt1145]

hmmm, am i blind or is there no brand/name/model anywhere in the description ? pls be so kind and send a link to a site where i find more info about these monitors. ty.

[@realraven2000]

is the dsp frequency correction linear?

[@Giobbecrossfader]

Can be linear or zero latency

[@lindonpeasley2469]

I think you've misunderstood the design a little bit, its the speakers on the back that create the cardioid pattern, not the grills on the side. We used to run Pa systems like this, or some systems had it build in, like the early Nexo line array subs (Some new D and B subs have it build in). But you do need to keep the sides free from reflections for it to work correctly, just like you said. Those speakers look awesome, i'd love a pair

[@Jaburu]

I just put my subwoofer in the middle and actualy facing (almost touching) the wall. there is no DIP in the response at all

[@lindonpeasley2469]

@@Jaburu Thats because sub waves are so long, that the phase will only be slightly out, at 60hz its a 5 meter long wave. Try 2.5 meters from the wall, you'll hear that

[@Jaburu]

@@lindonpeasley2469 yea, the delay added by a few cm is neglectable. the wall basicly turns into the woofer. I have no clue why this concept is done so rarely. just turn the sub around. it is so easy

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

No, the speakers on the back are subwoofers and are, indeed, omnidirectional. The vents on the side act are where the cancellation comes from.

[@lindonpeasley2469]

@@ErinsAudioCorner So you don't use the subs at the back to create the cardiod pattern? Therefore you use other drivers to create the cancellation, as simply putting vents alone won't work. Can you explain further, i'd like to understand, as the video isn't clear and your comment doesn't help either. www.prosoundweb.com/images/uploads/ABCEndFireFigure10b.jpg

[@ChestermereTimes]

Hello! How would you compare them against PMC 6-2? Thank you.

[@DomyCastellano]

I had the pmc 6-2 for 10 days in my room and hopefully will receive the 8Cs in a week or so. I honestly can't wait

[@drampadreg1386]

I still like the Bare Foot Mini Stack personally, I still cannot afford them but I agree that monitors and dsp belong together.

[@howtowi-fi3229]

lekker man

[@nuvisionprinting]

How much do they sell for?

[@doflamingo85]

vs kii three? vs ATC?

[@DavidFromOuterSpace]

MIXING/MASTERING RULE N° 1: the difference between the engineer that does great mixes and the one that sits in his car listening to his shitty mix crying - one bought good speakers and the other one bought a car.

[@NyakzOTSD]

And a great room is also important.. And setting your SPL levels correctly

[@dougleydorite]

5 million dollar speakers are worth nothing in a shitbox room

[@duboracle]

Sounds all so nice, but you want to place the speaker from the wall to gain soundstage (if you you understand) so in that philosophy the woofer must be a second kabinet apart from high mid tones. Dampening should not be behind the speaker in that matter. Second thing is, what kind of dac's are used ? what is the quality ? also a big question for the amp. Not to speak of the quality of the drivers ? All things you want to know in my opinion. A cat in the bag bargain ! Better buy a mini dsp room eq with good reviewed 2 way drivers i would think

[@iowaudioreviews]

Many of the features applied to these can be found in Dr Floyd Toole's book. I agree flat is transparent which is better. I want to hear to hear the track as completed not some old dude or audio brands sound signiture which is usually subjective BS or an excuse for poor acoustic engineering.

[@doflamingo85]

This one vs kii three?

[@dijpdepijp2154]

That front woofer looks like a dayton audio rs225-4

[@rocketman374]

I was initially confused about the comment about connecting REW with the 8C's, because it didn't seem like I could do that, but it looks like they removed that featured in the 2.0 version of the app. Hopefully they can implement it again, it would save quite a bit of time in setup!

[@max8591]

The feature has been brought back a while ago I believe. Make sure you've updated your 8c firmware and REW to the last versions and you should be good to go

[@rocketman374]

@@max8591 I just installed REW a couple of weeks ago when I got the 8C's, so I have the most current version. The FAQ page on the Dutch website currently states "REW integration is not yet implemented in firmware release 2.0. If you wish to use REW integration, you should roll back to firmware version 1.4.65 with the Release Management System, run RoomMatching with REW, then update to 2.0. Your RoomMatching settings will be automatically migrated to 2.0."

[@max8591]

@@rocketman374 This info on the website has been outdated since april, which is when firmware 2.1 came out. This brought back REW integration. Check that your speakers are on 2.1. If they are not this is the root of your problem =) Up to date 8c's with up to date REW will definitely work. I've been using it in the last couple of days myself. Let me know if I can help.

[@rocketman374]

@@max8591 man, I wish they'd update their website. The video tutorials are from V1! I currently am running version 2.1.1, so I'll have to go see why REW isn't talking to the 8C's!

[@max8591]

@@rocketman374 What exactly is the problem you have with it?

[@briankingart]

Great job! $14K? I'm going to need 250,000 streams on Spotify for awhile... wow.

[@ryanshook8284]

Please check out and review Amphion. Super curious about a comparison between the two.

[@TeddyLeppard]

Good RoboCop reference.

[@TheSakuraGumiLTD]

I'm the same as you with the highs

[@meinwarcrafttagebuch5142]

10k IMO is not much for an active studio monitor. I am an old fart (55) and I bought my Studio Monitor about 25 years ago (a JBL 4425). That thing is a passive speaker and if I remember correctly it was over 4500 DM back then. So if the speaker works the pricepoint is not cheap but fair. What I really wanted to talk about is your opinion about the high frequency response. You are talking about flat frequencys and that it kills you in the higher frequencys. There is a huge change (like almost 100% chance) that you are absolutely right. This whole ideal of a flat frequency response is to a very high degree total BS. Your ear is way less sensitive to the frequency bumps than it is to distortion. Mesure the frequency response of an amp almost every amp has a completely flat frequency response but compare a tube amp to a transistor and you will right away notice the nice harmonic distortion of a tube (if this is a good thing or not is for another time, the point is that you can spot it right away). Now compare the amount of distortion even of the worst tube amp to a speaker and you will find that a speaker is at least a 10x magnitude worse than the worst amp imaginable. Now let's imagine for a moment that your speaker has a terrible resonance at 15kHz or above (because 100% of all non horn tweeters have such a resonance) then you don't want to hear it. It will make your ears bleed if you have to listen to it all day long. So what you do is you lower the frequency in that area. Now you feel guilty coz your frequency is no longer flat, but is a resonance from a membrane really a sound information that belongs to the music? No it is not! So what benefit do you get from a flat frequency response in this case? None! If you have the time then have a look at the frequency response of these old BBC monitors of the 70s like a Spendor BC1 or the Tannoy monitors, their frequency response were bumpy like hell but you would not nesseseraly say that the recordings of the time were bad would you? Sure they were done without all the digital gimmicks like auto tune, compression and these kind of stuff, but they still sound great, at least in my opinion. Take care m8 - excellent video - and btw I never thought about room resonance and room reflection either but D&D is absolutely right, these are different animals ;-)

[@kniferideaudio]

They create a cardioid subs by adding the low frequencies back, delayed, and 180 out of phase. its how we focus subs for live sound as well. 1/4 wave cancelation.

[@lennartmusic]

That’s a different approach, I believe these speakers are based on passive cardioid in their midrange; the subs are of the closed box type; meant to acoustically couple to the back wall.

[@nectariosm]

This new "generation"(?) of speakers is very interesting. I went with the the Kii Three. Love them. They don't work wonders of course, you need treatment... but damn they sound great.

[@ignacedhont9816]

Indeed, fantastic speakers. Dutch & Dutch also very good!

[@lovingpeace9715]

Thank you for the review. What is also needed in a review is to remove all the parts and actually see what components are being used. There are a lot of very expensive speakers ( including $2000.00 and up ) now on the market and when you look at the enclosure and components being used it's a bunch of junk parts and crappy construction. The devil is always in the details

[@coolwatersmusic]

How much will these things cost???

[@CHOKSTARmusic]

please review Kii3 then.

[@bradenandre2298]

I have these speakers. I’ve used barefoot MM26’s, ATC SCM25a’s, Proac Studio 100’s, Amphion’s. When it comes to quality of sound replication and resolution, these speakers beat them all. Between these and ATC’s, I’ve never heard better speakers for mixing

[@andres77fj]

Kii Three compared to these and ATC's?

[@davidbaadermixing]

Which amphions did you used?

[@Godes_Music]

so its just like the GLM system on Genelec ONE series?

[@expresswayrecords7306]

All business up front and a party in the back. Just like the Mullet

[@ReeWebster]

I wish all phase problems were so easy to hear lol.

[@ezequielbalseca1184]

Fuck.. I wanna try those speakers..

[@deadnameisdead]

Me who sees the title: because he's dutch?

[@Eurikon]

You came to Rdam and didn't drop by for a coffee??? :P

[@Whiteseastudio]

They came to me 😅

[@Eurikon]

@@Whiteseastudio hahaha, ok fair enough! Do drop by though if your ever around here!

[@PAKBOTOFFICIAL]

Don't have money for these amazing speakers : )

[@gigngamer]

the problem with this is that they can't do nothing to RT60, but anyway, it help a lot

[@Zarvy]

Now I have a very important question since you are from Netherlands! You have to answer this. Why/How there are sooo many legend "Dutch" DJs/producers born!?

[@Whiteseastudio]

Even more specific, most of them are from the same town… it must be something in the water 🤔

[@Zarvy]

@@Whiteseastudio I'm coming! I need that Holy water.

[@YannSelka]

Sounds like a great idea. This will not make every studio sound great though, as most audio engineers don't have this kind of money laying around ;)

[@christianburgos2736]

I thought i only have to sell my car to get a pair of those but ... I might need to sell my house too.

[@michaellarsen180]

Its final, a speaker is no longer just a speaker xD

[@SallySparks]

Want

[@davidasher22]

I’m getting Bose 901 flashbacks right now..

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

How so? The 901 does the opposite of what these speakers. Unless, that's what you meant. :D

[@jokusekovaan]

Errr... My question is, doesn't our brains automatically correct for moving around the room... So then if you have these, wouldn't it sound weird?

[@MrDifferentTV]

Nani!?!

[@jfilbert]

FWIW, I prefer silk dome tweeters for the exact reason that Whytse like to attenuate the highs-- you still get the highs but its not a titanium piston hammering them through your eardrums. Way less fatiguing.

[@crissnickers_frog6689]

its ok ,...nice ,very good.but why not a song ?to see if is productiv to?

[@mantaproject]

Kii Audio Three - look them up, they are the pioneers (and dutch/german)

[@GingerDrums]

Im mixing amd mastering on these sime 2 years. 2 friends already took the plunge after hearing them, especially in pro home studios with low level listening.

[@simonbarth3181]

I dont thing that fixing the speaker for your preference is a good idear. When you own a headphone or any other piece of audio gear, you really get used to it. After a week or so you really acept it as your standart. As soon as you get a new one it will sound wrong for weeks. I mean shure you can do it, and it certenly is a way to have less stress on you ears, but you are always doing a lot of guesswork in you brain, kind of imagening how it really sounds. You can do it with practice but it is inacurate. And in mastering, where even a 0,5db can be important, thats just a bad idear, and you are making it way to hard for yourself. Just listen to the flat one for some months and i bet you will not change a thing.

[@LeonvanBokhorst]

So, these are actually wannabe headphones? 🙃 Interesting product and great review

[@DeadWhiteButterflies]

I do appreciate how painfully 90's this montage felt 😆

[@jellewierda3828]

You could use headphones...😉

[@verral2023]

yo

[@mikelo303]

To all common knowledge that you cannot pass speaker sound via mic and recording I can say this: If you know your speakers sound and you listen to such recording. You can estimate in your brain the difference os speakers sound. So yes, I would like to hear them as I will be able to approximate that sound signature they give even through my own speakers. I hope this all makes sense. Please, next time, record sound and give us a listen. T. Hanks.

[@jackkosto]

If you don't want to spend the money for bass traps, just buy these absurdly expensive speakers!

[@tugbars4690]

whatever you install in your room, you can't fix problems in 100-400hz.

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

@@tugbars4690 bass traps do not have the same effect a cardioid speaker does. Cardioid changes the entire dispersion pattern. Bass traps can't touch the effect the design these speakers have.

[@tugbars4690]

@@ErinsAudioCorner I know, I don't think I said something opposed to what you said. what I wanted to say is that, the solutions that seem to fix room reflection & directivity problems aren't actually working good enough to fix these problems completely. Cardioid is the way.

[@tugbars4690]

I couldn't decide whether I should save money and get D&D's or Geithain RL901K though.

[@edwine8857]

Not many WSS viewers are gonna be buying these, Mate. Back to the KRK Rokits . . .weep!

[@TheSpoonwood]

This sounds "like" a speaker equivalent of one of those headphone "room" emulator plugins ....no?

[@mennovanderlaan6695]

Nope. That would be a plugin that claims it can make your speaker sound like any other speaker. If you translate this to headphone you would get a tiny mic to plug in your ear to adjust the levels of your headphone

[@TheSpoonwood]

sadly.. I'm listening thru some old old NS10Ms

[@AnymMusic]

these might be the most expensive near fields I've ever seen

[@dirkvanhees8655]

Take a look at the KII THREE....

[@errmable]

I own the Kii Three

[@pdmcrew80]

Strauss electroacustics + amp.

[@johnbach2380]

Barefoot atc get up there as well

[@marin4311]

A new reference apparently.

[@thomasschafer7268]

Yes it is expensive for such little speaker.

[@OvercookedSteak]

you sound dutch yourself, lol are you?

[@Hotdogjackson]

SUX 9000....... Comedy genius!