Who Became Cyclonus? (Its Skywarp)

[@RetroRobotRadio]

The actual answer is both are true because there are multiple Transformers realities. In some realities it was one, the other, or neither.

[@mrsamaritan6881]

but only one is canon.

[@SurprisedCoyote-mj8px]

I don't believe any of them were still alive aside from Galvatron, of course. I believe their sparks joined the pit, and Unicron taking their bodies, and breathed new life into them. They might have retained their data banks (hence knowing Starscream in season three). Plus, their personalities are all radically different. Except Galvatron (he's basically a mentally unstable Megatron). Great upload! I think you definitely gave me more to think about!!

[@summer20105707]

Cyclonus is a hybrid of Bombshell and Skywarp. Skywarp may have been loyal. But he had the intellect of a peanut. Cyclonus gets his intelligence from Bombshell and his loyalty from Skywarp.

[@droiduseruserdroid1731]

Not exactly. All of the Decepticons in the group were dead except for Megatron. So, while Cyclonus may have been made from Skywarp's body, he had a completely different mind that was created by Unicron to be Unicron's servant. He has none of the personality traits, memories, or weaknesses of Skywarp. Totally different character.

[@robertfrazier6563]

I always say that Skywarp is Cyclonus

[@kray97]

In my head canon, it's always been Thundercracker -> Scourge and Skywarp -> Cyclonus. The insecticons became the clones. Cyclonus' clone was never seen again, and of course we all know about the Sweeps.

[@ronjonsircar2342]

I agree you nailed it 100%, all the facts support Cyclonus was Skywarp, the people that disagree only have the one scene in the movie and storyboard to support their arguement thats like saying G1 never had any errors LOL I also have the opinion that the three insecticons were clones and not the originals as we see the originals later during the movie and in season three.

[@TransformersTalkRAW]

Yep. The storyboard. And the animation. Such minor things lol

[@alanguages]

From a storyline driven perspective, Skywarp is Cyclonus. From a kill all old characters for new toys, then the animators had no idea and did not care who was being turned to Cyclonus. Bombshell or not made no difference.

[@d34th5back]

​@@TransformersTalkRAWNot sure if that's sarcasm or not, but to an extent, they are minor things. This video shows that what was on the storyboard, didn't make it into the final cut of the movie. This is a common practice in animation as it allows the artists and animators to lay the groundwork for the episode or movie without the need to potentially go back and completely redraw or animate a new scene. As for the animation, again, this is a very common problem from cartoons at the time. From recolors of existing characters to fill the background, the wrong colors on existing characters for what appears to be no reason, lines of dialogue from the wrong characters, etc. There are numerous animation mistakes from this generation of animation simply due to the fact it was quicker, easier and cheaper to reuse scenes and characters to meet your deadline which in turn, caused more animation errors.

[@ahmedsenussi8232]

It has to be Skywarp because Bome shells body would have been to small Skywarp the right size just BomeShells closer to the Screen

[@RetroRobotRadio]

Clearly Skywarp is Cyclonus. Bombshell still exists. It was a Bombshell clone who became Armada, because Bombshell appeared in one episode of season 3!

[@TheDarthranc0r]

One of the writer cane out and stated at a comic con semi recently that it was Skywarp.

[@droiduseruserdroid1731]

Not exactly. It was Skywarp's corpse that was made into Cyclonus. Unlike Megatron, the other Decepticons in the group were dead. So, he has none of the memories, teleporting abilities, or weaknesses of Skywarp. Entirely different character created by Unicron to be a servant to Unicron.

[@-outz-4654]

Another thing is perception and position. Unicron was behind them. Skywarp was closer to him and would've been the one to the left, making him named first as Cyclonus. To the viewer, he appeared to be further away and on the right.

[@samrichards8452]

I always thought that cyclonus was a combination of both of them. Also the what I have given you I can take away line could also be interpreted as his life not his body.

[@darkroom0716]

Official figure for Hisarmada when?

[@AntiDecepticonCampaign]

Why can’t we all just write it off as generic seekers and insecticon duplicates? C’mon the Insecticons could make copies of themselves and there’s tons of seekers.

[@raincloud5449]

Personally I prefer to have established characters become established characters instead of randoms becoming established characters.

[@madonion5190]

@@raincloud5449 I agree

[@alanguages]

Honestly, having the Sweeps was a dumb idea. The Insecticons should have changed to the Deluxe Insecticons. Examples: Shrapnel -> Chopshop Bombshell -> Barrage Kickback -> Ransack ? -> Venom (Can be retconned with a 4th member who stayed on Cybertron)

[@raincloud5449]

Deluxe insecticons couldn’t have been used because they were Bandai toys and hasbro didn’t want to deal with another Jetfire/Skyfire scenario.

[@alanguages]

I am aware. A big reason why Skyfire name and look were changed to what was seen in the cartoon. Going by storyline purposes, The Insecticons being upgraded to the Deluxe versions would have made sense. Similar to the idea Galvatron, Cyclonus and Scourge were considered upgrades as well. (In terms of power.) @@raincloud5449

[@kilroywashere513]

I never thought of bombshell becoming the third sweep though🤔.

[@deadend1041]

I only recently found out this was a debate. I'm so old I was a teenager watching that in the movies. I never knew people thought bombshell was cyclonus. I always assumed he was changed into the same look, but he was the one that got destroyed, that's why cyclones nor 1 like him can make copies like the sweeps.

[@Warppig]

I propose a slightly different argument: I'm going to put the case that all three original insecticons actually survived, and it was clones that became the armada and the sweeps. Why? Well, in the movie, cartoon and comic we see the insecticons again later, after the creation of galvatron. Plus, the insecticons cloning ability would neatly explain the variable number of sweeps if we assume they can still do that. The two seekers are therefore cyclonus and scourge.

[@davidcrim7025]

We never see the Sweeps clone themselves, (nor do they eat farmers crops to produce energon or shoot cerbro shells) the extra Sweeps could have just as easily been reformatted robots from all the planets Unicron consumed and stored in the ship. (Or build later by the Decepticons.) Cyclonus also never teleports in the cartoon, which would have been super useful since, unlike Skywarp (who was a moron), Cyclonus would be smart enough to actually use the ability to it's maximum potential!!! Bombshell may have been treacherous, but he was also smart, with Megatron bringing him in to reprogram Nightbird. His Marvel bio also states that he is one of "Megatron's favorites." Skywarp is loyal but also stupid AF. He brought Megatron back online because let's face it, he wouldn't know what to do without him. But honestly, it doesn't MATTER who became whom. They never talk about the old days when they were "so and so," and Starscream and the other characters don't refer to them as their original seeker forms (whereas he immediately recognized Galvatron, as did Optimus Prime). Their personalities and abilities are so radically different that for all intent and purposes they are completely new characters at this point. BTW, A product flyer isn't evidence of anything. Starscream died and was still being produced. Laserbeak, Jazz and Cliffjumper survived and were not being offered on the flyer. Shockwave may or may not have died and was gone. But Jetfire WAS still for sale despite long being phased out from the cartoon.

[@raincloud5449]

All good points. For Starscream, he was written to come back as a ghost in season 3, and later gets revived, so thats probably why he stuck around on the catalog. Honestly, I've kind of mellowed out when it comes to this debate. I'll personally always say Skywarp, but I could accept if it was Bombshell. I really just made this video as an alternative to the many Bombshell is Cyclonus vidoes and forums I saw.

[@Warppig]

Actually, on the comic, cyclonus does talk about his previous life... but frustratingly doesn't specify who he was. He does make a couple of things clear though, specifically that he was one decepticon and that he was alive when recreated, much the same as megatron/galvatron.

[@davidcrim7025]

@@Warppig yeah, I remember the UK comics, but the canon is completely different from the cartoon anyways. The Marvel bio just says he was made from "parts of dead Decepticons and remnants of Unicron" so it could be anyone or a little of both.

[@ryvyl]

Also to point out, as far as the flyer is concerned, figures were categorized by type back then: Cars, Minibots, Jets, etc. Scourge and Cyclonus were classed as Jets, so were both included with Starscream and the coneheads. I am a "Bombshell became Cyclonus" supporter. Mostly because when Unicron is announcing each character, Scourge (Thundercracker) is closest (with his sweeps behind him). So why wouldn't Bombshell (who was closest) not become Cyclonus (who also got the "hero pose" upon reformatting). Also, Unicron specified "new troops to command". So any personality traits would likely have been over written. I also like the idea of one of the most devious Decepticons becoming the most loyal one.

[@raincloud5449]

@@ryvyl I forgot to mention it in the video, but when Unicron announces Scourge, we see Thundercracker alone being reformatted, and when he says "and his huntsmen, the sweeps", thats when Shrapnel and Kickback's transformation begins. However, for Bombshell and Skywarp, when Unicron announces Cyclonus's name both Bombshell and Skywarp are reformatted at the same time, not being singled out like Thundercracker. Personally, though I believe its Skywarp, I believe that it could have been either of them, with one or the other becoming the third sweep.

[@philipmartin7730]

4 sweeps 3 Cyclonous armada members 1 Galvatron

[@raincloud5449]

even if you're counting the ones in the final shot theres only 2 cyclonus jets and 5 sweeps

[@jeffreytempleton3213]

There was also toy ads that showed the 3 coneheads, starscream, cyclonus, and scourge. The add implies even that thundercracker and skywarp were the 2 jets changed

[@havokan45]

I remember their being a toy Commercial and it said Cyclonus and his Armada the toy was a different color of Cyclonus.

[@bajavolvo]

Sooo the sweeps are old men that turn into hovercrafts. Who came up with that.

[@raincloud5449]

Good question.

[@droiduseruserdroid1731]

According to Ron Friedman, Cyclonus is none of these. The only Decepticon that was still alive was Megatron. The others were corpses. Scourge and Cyclonus were entirely different entities that worked for Unicron first and Galvatron second. So, it was Skywarp's body, but NOT Skywarp's mind.

[@philipmartin7730]

ANYONE who pays attention can clearly see its Bombshell Skyward became part of the Armada

[@raincloud5449]

problem is the armada is replaced with a third sweep and never seen again, so one of the two really became a sweep

[@wayigotitfigured9800]

It's not. It's not even a mystery - it's just what you want. For one thing, they're all dead - so it doesn't even matter WHO became WHO. They were raw material to create new beings altogether. You want to cite all this "evidence" except what is actually on the screen in the final version of the film. In your 'hear me out' section, which you first show Bombshell become Cyclonus (and Skywarp the non-existent "Armada" - a debate I've had with friends for 35 effing years) you show where there is an extra Sweep thrown in ALONG with both Cyclonus jets - the problem is the one that was highlighted to be Cyclonus is front and center - it would go against any and all logic for the one in the background to be Cyclonus. Even given the various versions of the transformations from different iterations of the movies, the one that turned from Bombshell to Cyclonus is still the main Cyclonus. Do I prefer Skywarp the character over Bombshell the character? Sure. But Skywarp is an idiot thug - his 'loyalty' not withstanding. So if being alive had anything to do with it, well that's not Cyclonus. Neither Cyclonus, nor Scourge (or really ANY of the dead Decepticons) have any character traits of any of the characters they "became" beyond being evil Decepticons in the service of Unicron and Galvatron (in that order until Unicron is destroyed). In Bombshell's case, well he's way smarter than Cyclonus, which the Sweeps are definitely not all that smart - which could kind of support the either idea in that, as I said, their personalities didn't matter either way because these are NEW CHARACTERS. By the way, Transformers Universe, the Marvel Universe style profile books states the Decepticons were dead (in addition to the free floating deadness shown on screen). I'm going to call bollocks on the 'gray' thing, as that's not even close to consistent - even the reasons Prime and Starscream are different. This video is two years old, and I'm not going to change your mind, but for me - BOMBSHELL became CYCLONUS, not that it matters, because Bombshell was dead - however, that IS what is on the screen.

[@raincloud5449]

How can you be so sure they're dead? Yeah the "looked" dead, but so did Megatron before Unicron started talking to him. The other Decepticons were also alive and and talking before they were thrown out. Also, forgot to mention it in the video, but Bombshell himself has red glowing eyes, whenever he passes by the screen right before Unicron says, "Welcome Megatron." All other dead characters eyes are black or dull, Wheeljack, Windcharger, and Prime. The masterpiece figure says its Skywarp, Flint Dille said its Skywarp, e-hobby comics said its Skywarp etc. At the end of the day, I don't think we'll ever really get a definitive answer, and I don't really mind. The shot was framed in a way so that either could of been Cyclonus, and the other is the third Sweep. Although I personally still believe its Skywarp, I can see how it also could of been Bombshell, and I think its for the better than way. I think it adds to Cyclonus's character that we'll never get a definitive answer from Hasbro, ensuring there will be more fan discussions for years to come.

[@wayigotitfigured9800]

@@raincloud5449 You showed the script for one - two- again Transformers Universe also says they are dead (written by Bob Budiansky) three - they're just floating limp no motion in any of the scenes in the actual movie -Bombshell is even upside down in a stationary position at one point, in contrast to Megatron floating around - they didn't even float around AFTER he started floating around. I really take most things Flint Dille says with a grain of salt, but he wrote stuff I guess. Half the time he says he can't remember everything. In the end, like I say, it honestly doesn't matter because they were dead, but even if they weren't it STILL doesn't matter because the Heralds of Unicron don't even acknowledge they were ever 'someone else' as if they were born on 8//8/2005. Anyway, nice video and assembly of evidence to support your position. Facebook has this argument going again. As it will again and again and again...

[@canopyfields]

My theory is that bombshell cyclonus was destroyed either in autobot city battling Dinobots, or destroyed by galvatron for trechery. The loyal cyclonus we see in season 3 is Skywarp cyclonus.

[@gmwr8066]

My wY of thining i like yous

[@ryanlesperance777]

IT'S BOMBSHELL. FACTS 1. Its understood that this may have happened due to a simple character placement error by the writers and illustrators. But due to this error/mistake Bombshell is technically the winner by possible default.. 2. Bombshell is not only introduced in the forefront (with skywarp in the backdrop) as now 'Cyclonus but also in synchronicity to the introduction by Orson Wells himself. 3. But even the theory ''Skywarp was originally written to be Cyclonus' can be argued as it 'Bombshell' that was drawn and written And morphing into Cyclonus as in the original and final illustration drafts! I'm sorry but we don't get to rewrite what we saw and what was already written/drawn. -The author of this video argues that there was originally 3 Cyclonus's yet once again it's Bombshell that is drawn. -He Also argues that just because bombshell was illustrated in the original draft doesn't mean that this will make the final cut, but in fact as we all know it did. - The author of this video also tries to beget the relationship between skywarps personality traits to Cyclonus's, which in my opinion are absolutely laughable and I don't care to spend too much more time on this topic, but rather just say 'skywarp was a borderline line idiot and a common foot soldier at best. - I believe fans just anticipate and wish that skywarp was the one reformatted into Cyclonus because he's a higher ranking/jet with more seniority with the deceptions and the audience to follow suit to Megatrons new army, so in an effort to cloud these facts skywarp fans will ramble on and on about dead floating corpses and other Frankenstein ghost stories as well as toy catalogs that that aren't in synchronicity to their idiot claims. Facts vs Fiction This case is closed, alright.. and it does not favor Skywarp by a country mile.

[@raincloud5449]

The person who wrote the movie, Flint Dille, said that it was Skywarp who became Cyclonus. I forgot to mention that in the video. I know a lot of people say you have to stick to the animation, but as I stated in the video, the animation is filled with errors and inconsistencies. Right after the scene where we see Skywarp, Thundercracker, Bombshell, Shrapnel, and Kickback die, they all appear in the crowd at Starscream's coronation. Both Skywarp and Bombshell appear on screen at the same time as Cyclonus. You can't really trust the animation if its telling you something different from scene to scene. I know a lot of people don't like the conclusion Flint Dille came to, but since the source materiel can't get the facts straight, you have to rely on outside sources for the true answers. Either way, we'll never get a real answer from hasbro since they're perfectly fine with collectors buying 2 Cyclonuses when a new figure comes out.

[@TransformersTalkRAW]

@@raincloud5449 Flint Dille didn't write the movie friend. Ron Friedman did. And he said no such thing. Also, when Flint said what he did, he was cornered, and very tired of getting that same question asked to him. It's like asking Ford who shot first, Han or Greedo. He doesn't care. And neither does Flint. That whole "Flint said" argument holds no water here.

[@raincloud5449]

@@TransformersTalkRAW My bad he was the story consultant. Either way, if you watch the Rodimus Primal interview with him, he answers it around 1:29:20. I think someone who was willing to sit down for an almost 2 hour long interview still cares about what he worked on in the 80s. I may lean heavily on the Skywarp side because of what was said by Flint and my own research for this video, but it could go either way. With Scourge, his transformation sequence is in sync with the narration, and nappens before the Sweeps transformations. Their transformation is also in sync with the narration and each other. For Cyclonus, both Bombshell and Skywarp's transformations into the Cyclonus body type are in sync. If Skywarp was turned into a Sweep in the background, I'd accept Bombshell as Cyclonus, but we see him get turned into a Cyclonus not a Sweep. In conclusion, there's a case for both sides, and its more up to the fans to decide for themselves who they think became who.

[@TransformersTalkRAW]

@@raincloud5449 I did indeed watch Mr. Joe's (Rodimus Primal's) interview with him, and also have reached out to Flint on FB...and I still think Flint doesn't care tbh man. Because while surely he cares about his work, that wasn't HIS work. You do have some interesting points, and I totally respect your pov. Hey...if you enjoy the TFs more by thinking he's Wheelie...go for it.

[@Hot.Rod0311]

It is simple… Cognitive dissonance. The ppl who make excuses for it to be Skywarp can’t let go of Skywarp, thus fooling themselves anyway they can. Funny how we all accept Scourge being in the foreground & introduced by Unicron, but some can’t accept losing Skywarp.

[@johnvader4584]

Cyclones is bombshell

[@madonion5190]

From the time I first saw TF: The Movie in the theater back in '86, it was never a doubt to me that Skywarp became Cyclonus. Even though both decepticons were in the frame with Bombshell in the foreground. I just remember thinking, Thundercracker became Scourge, yes, and Skywarp became Cyclonus. That's it. I've stuck with that without question all these years.

[@matthewdoyle3628]

Going by their personalities and what we saw of Skywarp and Bombshell in the cartoon. Skywarp was loyal to Megatron, Bombshell along with his fellow Insecticons only worked with the Decepticons out of convivence and would betray Megatron when it suited. Even if both were dead by the time they arrived at Unicron and given new life by him, it makes more sense for Skywarp to be Cycolonus due to how loyal he was to Galvatron.

[@DannyVranken-pd4pe]

Can't put in the picture guys sorry....

[@choostopher5018]

Love the copium but sorry Skywarp, Thundercracker & those insecticons jettisoned were DOA by the time they reached Unicron only Megatron still functioned, doesn't matter which corpses were used as raw material for the sparks that Unicron installed into the bodies to become Cyclonus, Armada (lol), Scourge & the Sweeps.

[@raincloud5449]

I could possibly get behind everything you said but besides Armada, that dude was animation error or a relic from a past script they didn't feel like removing. Either way he doesn't exist.

[@Hot.Rod0311]

In 1986, the Spark lore was non-existent.

[@havokan45]

Skywarp became Cyclonus you see Bombshell in season 3 along with the other 2 insecticons. The Insecticons had the ability to clone i think they used the ability to get new bodies for season 3 . It seems the insecticons came back for season 3 . The sweeps seem to have taken the insecticons cloning ability in season 3 . Also there is another theory that Skywarp & Bombshell both became Cyclonus the only problem that you see Bombshell in season 3. The original script was after Megatron died on Cybertron the Decepticons was to start fighting for leadership they would awaken old Decepticons from the past who got new bodies from Unicron

[@pearsooo6972]

Agree

[@STCRS2307]

Eh? Who are those guys?

[@DannyVranken-pd4pe]

I agree with this video,Skywarp was a seeker with honour to Megatron and the Decepticon cause,Thundercracker never was a 100% behind the cause,that reflects on how Scourge was behaving,while the others did Galvatrons bidding,Scourge was not and looking for chances to get power on his own,like he possesed the Matrix once....but corrupted him,but in short,this video is legit....let that be the end of it....

[@malaikaarif1629]

It's skywrp lads

[@szac2005]

I agree that Cyclonus is Skywarp. In my opinion Hasbro used the Animated episodes to promote its Primary focus which was the toyline... According to the toyline catalogs it clearly shows the original seekers with Cyclonus & Scourge replacing Skywarp & Thundercracker, "They are even colored the same". You also see Bombshell there with the other Insecticons & there was no no need to make sweeps cause they were identical to Scourge. There have been many variations of the characters thoughout the history of the transformers animated series. However, First & Formost HASBRO "IS A TOY COMPANY"!!!! Thats where the Money is & like they always say "FOLLOW THE MONEY & you will find the Truth".... FYI, Excellent Video And to quote my main man MEGATRON "Such Heroic Nonsese".... I feel this way cause I was 15 when I saw this movie & I am now 51 Years old and still debating this with people.... HASBRO, JUST SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT PLEASE!!!! I bet they corporate entities that know the answer are have been laughing at us decades.......

[@TransformersTalkRAW]

Never was Skywarp, never will be. No matter how hard some may wish it. Was always Bombshell, always has been, and will always be.

[@szac2005]

@@TransformersTalkRAW I didnt want to say this but one of my companies clients is Hasbro. After speaking with one of the designer's for the transformers toyline packaing they agreed its Skywarp...

[@TransformersTalkRAW]

@@szac2005 In all respect man, I doubt that. But even if they did suddenly say that, that would hold very little relevance as the writers and animators of the 86 film hold a far greater precedence over the truth than Hasbro would in this situation.

[@szac2005]

​@@TransformersTalkRAW I hear you dude although I still disagree about bombshell being Cyclonus I respect & understand your point of view. Honestly this issue really does not matter all that much. Also, I am really surprised that this topic is still being discussed for over 36 years about a minor detail in a cartoon movie. Anyway, I say this was the best Transformers movie yet made & I still love watching it. Till all are one......

[@TransformersTalkRAW]

@@szac2005 Absolutely bro.

[@DannyVranken-pd4pe]

Found another proof why Skywarp or Thundercracker is Cyclonus,in this picture from the 'All hail Megatron' omnibus,its more like Thundercracker who us turned to Cyclonus,because it was Thundercracker who always talked about the seeker way,and honour of the cause,but then again so was Skywarp loyal to the cause.

[@kilroywashere513]

Well, yeah and Cyclonus is chummy with scourge also like Skywarp and thundercracker were too, and the nsecticons were in the third season of the G1 cartoon also, and I remember that foldout thing that came t with the transformers toys back in 86, and I noticed it at a pediatrician I went to back when those toys were sold at that time also, and I alaways figured Cyclonus used to be Skywarp too💁🏻‍♂.

[@TommyandTheGuineaPigCollective]

The problem there is Cyclonus’s stats indicate intelligence…which is not Skywarp. Bombshell is more intelligent … but this is my opinion. The movie at one point shows more than three sweeps…and the Sunbow cartoons continue this. So the number of reformatted doesn’t matter… so Cyclonus is both Bombshell and Skywarp reformatted into one being.

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

Randomly Recommended this video. Considering Cyclonus and Scourge where both envisioned as being resurrected ancient decepticon leaders and skywarp nor Bombshell have any influence on Cyclonus' personalities, I've never really cared about the discussion. I've always liked the idea that instead insecticons transformed were clones, and that the cloned insecticons became Cyclonus and Scourge.

[@joshomasprime2474]

I agree with you

[@JamesRobbins-e4r]

I agree with you 100%

[@CEEPMDEE]

We all know the movie was just a sloppy moneygrab and a crappy excuse to publicly end the license agreements for those characters that were killed off in the movie. Skywarp was always supposed to be 2nd in command as he was the first Transformer to be activated on Earth and the first thing he did was have Megatron repaired. It never made any sense for Bombshell to be Cyclonus. Bombshell never liked Megatron or the other Decepticons.

[@philipmartin7730]

The toys and comic book lists say that Shrapnel is leader of the insecticons Your obviously looking at this a bit narrow minded That's why I won't subscribe or support your channel

[@raincloud5449]

I don't see how shrapnel being the leader relates to who becomes who but you do you bro

[@erosdelcarpio5]

Case close 🎉

[@The_Bi-polar_Express]

Skywarp was Cyclonus. Bombshell was never that loyal, and the Sweeps replicate like the Insecticons. People will argue that Bombshell became Cyclonus, but Skywarp was closeest to Unicron before the reformatting. Throw in all of the animation errors and boo, Skywarp is Cyclonus. Also, it doesn't make any sense for 2 Insecticons to become Sweeps and not all 3.

[@reedy9333]

I agree

[@sinthalous3649]

He is right.