Who built the Pyramids & the Sphinx? DEBATE REVIEW! (Part 2) - Graham Hancock vs. Flint Dibble

[@lukecaverns]

Correction: Flint, in response to Joe bringing up the granite/limestone cores, says that the Egyptians used Copper/Bronze “Drills” (not chisels like I said). Also, after checking out the KZbin channel that Flint cites - he was aware of the coring done in Egypt. So I was wrong in saying that he wasn’t aware of it.

[@zemog1025]

They used arsenic bronze, which is way harder than just copper, for their tools, and they also used an array of fine abrasives to aid in the drilling and cutting processes (Land of Chem) (SGD) (Scientist Against Myths). It is also likely they had lathes and understood the mechanical advantages of pully ratios and hydraulics. Advanced, but not woo advanced.

[@jonlopez07]

Thank you for all your hard work Luke!

[@Anyextee]

Both Flint and Graham need to be brought up to date. I felt the Egypt part of the debate was the most lacking.

[@carlhannah1884]

@@Anyextee one of the issues is that Graham's claims are very wide-ranging and no single archaeologist is going to have extremely specialized knowledge about each claim. So you can have a really smart archaeologist that is bullet proof on their specific area of study but just knows a strong baseline on other topics.

[@Anyextee]

@@carlhannah1884 yes I totally agree. It’s clear the mysteries of Egypt was not Flints world. But even Graham needs to “catch up” on the latest.

[@kklh7918]

5:51 You’re paraphrasing flint here so I understand it’s not necessarily your opinion but this idea that it’s a ‘one off’ is just a bad critical analysis. Flint showing his example of other areas of erosion is also terrible. Didn’t even double take. He’s made his mind and isn’t open minded. The water erosion hypothesis is actual evidence and he dismissed it for no reason

[@ae86manny]

Flint has good rebuttals to Gram but I have a feeling he has a major confirmation bias.

[@ty8012]

They barely. Talked about any of it and funny enough Dibble used the convenient argument that he wasn't an expert in a certain field so he couldn't really elaborate but when it came to the Sphinx he's not a geologist but he was confidently trying to argue the fact

[@HowardHamlin-mv9rq]

Glad someone noticed.

[@willmosse3684]

I’m pretty sure Flint did realise and was talking about granite cores. He cited Scientists Against Myth and others who have replicated coring techniques.

[@kindofbluenyc]

You're right. Luke got it wrong.

[@Leeside999]

You're wrong about the carbon dating. The carbon dating Flint referenced is from the charcoal fragments contained in the gypsum mortar found between the blocks of the great pyramid.. The great pyramid has mortar throughout. What you mentioned is not what he's talking about.

[@ZeldasMask]

Honestly so far hearing you talk Luke you’ve become my favourite person in this whole sphere that is ancient theories, archeology. My dude you are so chill and always love hearing your thoughts and insights

[@NONANTI]

Graham may be selling himself short on the archeoastronomy. A complete precession of equinoxes takes 26,000 years. Why couldn't instead of the Sphinx being 12,000 years old, it be 38,000 or 64,000 or 90,000 years old?

[@kristopha]

flint also doubled down on his white supremacy racist remarks in a new article he put out today , guys a worm

[@rolsen1304]

Yeah that ruined it for him imo

[@rubendoorn7589]

Where can i find that article?

[@bulkzorage]

Once he started talking that garbage it revealed his bias

[@kristopha]

@@bulkzorage so "open minded" he disagreed and shot down every single point of grahams lol

[@LesterBrunt]

Do you guys seriously believe white supremacy doesn’t exist or something?

[@MattHenchman]

Egypt is the only place I have ever travelled where the majority of the locals strongly disagree with western historians. That is hard to disregard. Another thing, it's typically insecure, out of shape , inexperienced old men, who have never done any labour, masonry or construction, explaining how this project happened as though they would have any clue. That in itself is insulting and absurd to tradesman who have actually built things. Some academics and historians become delusional and narcissist and are incapable of admitting they just don't know.

[@russellmillar7132]

Graham accepts mainstream dating of the pyramids and Gobekli Tepe. Not that I care what he thinks. Denys A. Stocks is an engineer who studied the methods of ancient Egypt and demonstrated many of the techniques. Look him up.

[@Manbearpig4456]

⁠@@russellmillar7132Stocks didn’t prove anything. The man tried to debunk spiral groves with a photo not even testing the core samples. He is another one of the deluded pounding stones proponents

[@russellmillar7132]

@@Manbearpig4456 And which methods do you propound?

[@Manbearpig4456]

@@russellmillar7132handling the object and testing it correctly. Are you aware why a photo can’t be used as evidence in this scenario?

[@russellmillar7132]

@@Manbearpig4456 Which tests do you find reliable?

[@webgodtube]

The real elephant is the vases Ben did vids on. This begs questions that Flint could apply his work to. Someone made those. Where is the societal signature?

[@jrockthecasbah]

The issue with the vases is that Ben was called out on his missing ancient high tech ideas like the coffins at Saqqara Serapeum. Once you look at that you will see more evidence of his misinterpretation of missing ancient high technology. It’s hard to trust him as a source. The vases are interesting and so far haven’t been debunked yet. Lots of mysteries still.

[@jimijames6449]

@@jrockthecasbahsorry what? How on any way were the boxes at saqqara called out? That’s one of the strangest smoking guns in ancient history. And nobody can claim to how they are there.

[@cleanpiecington2319]

@@jrockthecasbah What exactly about the boxes at Saqqara was debunked?

[@MrAchile13]

What if I told you there are much more impressive stone vessels, made with primitive tools, that Ben does not talk about, because they're debunking his narrative?

[@cleanpiecington2319]

@@MrAchile13 more impressive then 1000th of a inch level? I would task you with explaining how that’s even possible with a copper drill or chisel

[@AncientArchitects]

Hey Luke, just to say, the great pyramid core limestone, what we see today on the outside, is the hard member III limestone we see on the Sphinx head, not the very soft limestone used to make the Sphinx temple, Valley Temple and the bulk of the Sphinx enclosure, which is the Member II. Also, would it not make more sense that the Builders of the Valley Temple cut the limestone to fit the irregular uncut back side of the granite blocks? That to me is most likely. I think they only cut and finished the outer face of the Valley Temple granite casing (as it’s a laborious job) and then they cut and manipulated the very soft limestone of the temple to fit the uncut irregular side of the granite. That would be most efficient. That’s my opinion when I saw it anyway 👍

[@brightmooninthenight2111]

Graham wasted so much time proving he was persecuted and how modern archeologists are the modern day inquisition that hours of potential debate like the vases were squandered. He just went on and on about how persecuted he was.

[@keithcarmichael1522]

Your right about that, but I've believe I would've been the same. Graham has been through a lot with these modern day archeologist. It's a shame

[@ScrewdriverTUNING]

It was intentional and beautifully done by Graham. Defending his view against specialty proxies was grahams problem. The seed guy can’t even comprehend why seeds hold to plants for longer. 1 bad environmental year allows seeds to hold the plant longer. Humans effect on seed are much much slower then the natural processes. Graham defending proxies geared strictly towards hunter gatherer’s. Do you find large citys and temples today where hunter gatherers live ?? NOPE.

[@bingbong586]

​@@ScrewdriverTUNING you would think while combing the area and finding thousands of hunter gatherer sites you might find ONE peice of evidence of a globe spanning, sea fairing civilization instead of just more hunter gatherer sites.

[@WalkingDesecration]

I think that showed one of the most important points. Flint had an unwillingness to compromise. He views things in a very black and white way.

[@kingslayya6876]

​@bingbong586 and yet he refutes ancient sites like the bimini road etc, so how can you see if the eyes aren't open

[@warmist8197]

Pretty sure Mark Lehner has studied and provided answers for why the sphinx enclosure appears so advancely eroded, as if more rainfall is responsible. He shows right down to why it flakes away and how quickly that occurs. But nobody ever sites his work cuz its not as fun. Just like how everyone acts like we havent figured out the drill holes yet, or saw cuts. Dont take it from me, see for yourself.

[@SebSpeaks]

I think Flint was the wrong guy for this debate because his area of specialization isn't the focus area of Graham's. But perhaps he was the only one willing to do that debate.

[@edzus100]

He was just crazy enough. Hancock is also ... allergic to peer review .. he gets peer reviewed .. HARD .. he likes it or not - he doesnt seem to understand what evidence is .. "this looks like" is not evidence. Absence of evidence is NOT evidence either. As wormy as Flint was ... his arguments are BASED on DATA .. not absence of DATA ..or interpretation into existence.

[@timmysvensson4902]

Yeah Graham should argue with a Bigfoot guy instead, they can both go BUT HAVE WE LOOKED EVERYWHERE? By the way i have been to Narnia, try to debunk me. I mean have you looked in every wardrobe?

[@cheret6879]

Flint probably wouldn't accept the invitation if he was specialized in this area.

[@patrickmontie9583]

Maybe he was the only one that had time to do the debate. Most scientists don't think they have to prove anything to Graham Hancock. 😂😂😂

[@cheret6879]

@@patrickmontie9583 They got all the time in the world, the truth must be closing in

[@shermanatorosborn9688]

I came away seeing Flint as the most ignorant man in the room

[@Leeside999]

That's a poor reflection on you, bro.

[@shermanatorosborn9688]

@@Leeside999 how's that ?

[@Mikael-jt1hk]

@@shermanatorosborn9688 because the man is an actual expert and you are some random retard commenting on youtube? who gives a shit what you think?

[@kindofbluenyc]

​@@shermanatorosborn9688 Because Flint clearly knew what he was talking about. Your inability to see that reflects on your bias. Most experts think Flint solidified his superior knowledge of Archaeology.

[@stevenfletcher3411]

How is that remotely possible? I'm not Flint's biggest fan I think he's quite arrogant. But he certainly wasn't ignorant. He is clearly knowledgeable and admitted when a topic was not his area of expertise which is exactly how people in his position should be.

[@mikemcphaden80]

All Flint showed in my humble opinion, is too many archeologists are stuck in a set opinion. He said a couple times " we move forward from what we know ". That sounds counter intuitive. Isn't the whole point to find what we don't know? He did nothing to disprove Hancock's theory

[@Ktmfan450]

Rewatch it and focus on what he actually says

[@mikemcphaden80]

Flint says they have found no evidence to support Hancocks theory. That doesn't mean it's conclusive. They haven't exhausted the search, lots of places to keep exploring. I'm not saying that Hancock is right, I'm saying that Flint doesn't know and until then why not keep an open mind. At the end of the day, doesn't that benefit Archeology by supporting more digs and research

[@Mycologypadawan]

Nice to hear your point of view you are always in the middle and look at it in an amazing way thank you!!

[@Robertoyoungblood]

I was hoping for evidence vs evidence. Graham looked foolish a lot of the time. He’d ask ridiculous rhetorical questions, “how much of the Sahara has been excavated?” for example. When you answer he thinks the answer is evidence. Graham just ises a lot of rhetoric 101 tricks. What is the difference between introducing agriculture and introducing the IDEA of agriculture? He’s an author, his ideas are entertaining, but he’s not adding anything to our understanding of history.

[@renesonse5794]

Graham whooped Flynt for sure but I have to say that this was not his finest 4 hours. He spent way too much valuable time complaining about how he's been treated by mainstream archeology. He seemed tired and a bit frazzled. He needed to be as he was on the JRE...cool, calm, collected with plenty of that great British sarcasm. I agree fully with Luke that he really missed a great opportunity to talk about the vases, tube drills, saw marks, etc. and more time about Egypt. Re Graham being a racist/white supremacist...I'm surprised that he didn't remind Flynt that he is married to a woman with dark skin. I would love to see another round with Graham and Randall and whoever Flynt wants to bring along. That said, I doubt Flynt will want to subject himself to that again so let Joe & Graham put a very public standing invitation out to whoever would debate G & R and see who steps up to put their money where their mouths are. It didn't turn out so well for Michael Schirmer or Flynt now.

[@owainowain9607]

I would love to see these granite blocks that were carved to perfectly on the back side to line up with the sphinx erosion? Oh wait they don’t exist and makes zero sense to carve the backside of hard granite to fit the soft limestone in truth the backside of the granite wasn’t worked and was left ridged and bumpy and they craved the soft limestone to fit the bumpy backside of the granite 😂😂. Also Nobody seems to understand how porous limestone is and how capillary forces pulls groundwater into the bedrock base. 4500 years ago the Giza Plateau was wet for and still wet for a further 2000 years. Stop applying fantasy over common sense

[@Kierron85]

Hi Luke. Have you watched any of the work done by the Russian KZbin channel: Scientists Against Myths? I think you might find their videos on Baalbek and their ones on coring and creating interior, right angled corners in granite, using pounding stones and cooper core drills quite interesting.

[@MrShankaPerera]

better not to check those, so I can keep simping GH

[@Kierron85]

I’ve just seen their new experiment where they create a diorite vase using only primitive technology. Game changing. I’ve brought this channel up with Jimmy Corsetti multiple times and he always dodges the subject. I’ll say it again, the work being done by Scientists Against Myths absolutely needs to be brought into the conversation.

[@_MikeJon_]

@@Kierron85 Jimmy Corsetti blocked me for doing similar things on Instagram lol.

[@HassanAlBanna-t4d]

There needs to be more talk about how white people would find it much easier to give credit to aliens before natives, if you don’t want to call it racism you gotta come up with a term for this and it needs to be discussed, because with how much wannabe experts on KZbin this phenomena is trending.

[@MichaelPK03]

If flint didn’t associate himself with all the cancel BS around Grahams Netflix doc I would’ve really respected him. However, he wasn’t even apologetic to Graham. How he laughs and scoffs like a snooty politician, he is one of the A Holes he describes. Another person he mentions to watch is Milo Rossi. Another Snooty academic, I’m smarter than you let me prove you wrong type person. His channel is a joke as well. He just drives around on a motorcycle. Just my 2 cents. Luke, you are the best academic I’ve listed to in this field. Keep up the great work, stay humble

[@christianbrandel7437]

What "cancel BS"? Did you read the letter to Netflix? Here: "we call upon both Netflix and ITN Productions to remove any labels that state or imply that this series is a factual documentary or docuseries and reclassify this series as “science fiction.” We urge both Netflix and ITN Productions to add disclaimers to the series that its content is unfounded."

[@MichaelPK03]

@@christianbrandel7437exactly! Just because he doesn’t agree, flint with his PHD says he needs to look and derail anything that counters his views. He was apart of the bashing of Graham while he smirks and says all the Spanish did is lie and then make up his own BS about the Maya.Milo Rossi does the same trash. Very little of their own research but many debunk videos. Milo did a piece in the southwest earlier and has to follow up for saying things wrong. He is a joke. They are grifters looking for views. I would respect him more if he stopped all the debunking trash.

[@christianbrandel7437]

@@MichaelPK03 Frankly, I don't understand your need for 'respecting' people. What do you mean by it? Take the stuff a person says seriously, i.e. understanding and discussing it and then criticize it when necessary? Certainly not. Respect is something else entierely. You only respect Luke because he displays this 'both sides' - thing that leaves room for Hancocks 'possibilities' which themselves leave even room for much much more - lol. So please, leave me alone with this (dis-) respect BS. Btw, grifter is an interesting take when we talk about a guy who made a fortune with his books. You also debunked/ dismissed the other guys quite quickly... Come on!? And now back in line: "We need to move forward & speak kindly - 28:06"

[@MichaelPK03]

@@christianbrandel7437 we can agree to disagree. Continue to get mad about things being found older than academics claim. It happens almost daily or monthly now.

[@christianbrandel7437]

@@MichaelPK03 It's even not clear what we - or rather you - are talking about - ? Why do you change the subject? What findings? How do YOU determine it as fact?

[@313barrygmail]

And they never talked about the vases???? Or megalithic stuff like balbeck Or some of the caves in India or the new discoveries in turkey the tepies And you’re 100% correct !!!!! at least coming together, we get both sides of the story easy to get wrapped up in one side when you didn’t even know the other existed???? That definitely goes both ways. Hopefully they’ll be a round 2 …

[@trinidad111]

Yeah I was very let down. It got so derailed and never touched and so many other important sites and findings. I don’t know why they focused so much on gunung padang. It’s an interesting site but there are far more compelling areas to go up against an archaeologist

[@313barrygmail]

I think because of Danny being treated so badly first, given all the rights and told to continue with his investigation and then having the carpet pulled out from underneath him?? Then his character assassinated. Also, I believe Graham really felt the need to stand up.???

[@quintonmcdannald2327]

This was more about therapy for their egos than it was facts. If we cut out all the parts where they were talking about slandering each other we would have had only an hour of real information.

[@MrShankaPerera]

how any of those linked to a lost advanced civilization ? the evidences show everything within 5k years. why not give the credit to those people?

[@quintonmcdannald2327]

@@MrShankaPerera why is this about giving credit to anyone? I can’t take credit for Stonehenge even though a recreated skull from the area looks just like me. I don’t want credit for something people of my past did, I just what to know what was really going on.

[@seagypsybnb]

Flint also stated at the begining that his area of knowledge was in ancient greece. So to keep saying he didnt know alot about ancient egypt isnt fair to the argument.

[@Siska0Robert]

9:30 There is a youtube channel called "Scientists Against Myths" where they replicated the granite core using only copper,sand,etc.

[@PorterFamilyYTYoutTubePremium]

Great video Luke! Big fan of Hancock and the efforts to find out our missing history… probably to a fault. I went in to the podcast with biased towards Hancock no doubt! These theories are entertainment to me and I just more and more info. The part that got me leaning towards Flint, was the ancient agriculture. Paraphrasing, he says we’ve looked in the areas u (Hancock) say we (archaeology) haven’t looked…(continental shelf, coast, etc) and we find evidence, but nothing at all that relates to ancient increased knowledge. Then graham states again, only less than 1% or 5% has been studied. At first I thought, graham is right, but then if u look at flints map of the sites. Sure does look like decent coverage of a lot of different areas. I guess it’s possible that’s an ancient culture just wasn’t in those areas, but wouldn’t they be everywhere, leaving evidence everywhere. If the hunter gatherer stuff survived the younger dryas, why not any at all of the ancient civilization… 🤔, I dunno. More please!!!! Great video man!

[@PablitoEscobar]

And the Scientists against myths channel and Sacred geometry decoded Channel has some very convincing videos on how to drill cores with coppertubes and sand

[@leesaa1012]

Flint very much DID paint Graham as a racist (and many other damaging errant attack labels). That narrative is intensely societally corrosive and extremely irrelevant. Those who use such terms are intending to cause great damage to their ‘opponents’ and have completely lost sight of true scientific dialog and process. Thank you Joe Rogan for creating an opportunity for two opposing thought models to get together for discussion. I hope it opens more doors of discussion between the countless conflicted factions in our society, nation and world today. And there is MUCH about Egypt and further this world’s past that is enigmatic and justifies a hard look outside the calcified mindsets of our current scientific process. Just look at what James Web is doing to Cosmology… or should I say UNDOING.

[@kavanagharchie]

Flint pointed out that some pf the sources Graham uses are from explicitely racists sources, and Graham uses these without that preface included. Can you dispute that in any way, or are you going to type with capital letters to pretend you're authorotative.

[@MichaelPK03]

@@kavanagharchiesome could say Flint is showing racism for calling Spanish people liars. He used, they might have made things up as proof for Central America. Come on man haha.

[@kavanagharchie]

@@MichaelPK03 what a stupid argument, he said that people who colonised other places with ideologies that specifically saw other races as less than the colonisers and therefore npt deserved of human rights. The people who wrote these things were the same people who were killing and raping them, but you think lying or misunderstanding is impossible?

[@LesterBrunt]

@@MichaelPK03 Well they were there as brutal murderous colonizers who murdered and erased the culture of millions of people. Nothing unreasonable about being very skeptical about any of their claims about the same people they were genociding.

[@MichaelPK03]

@@LesterBruntso were the natives. They fought one another over land. Not all the tribes were peaceful as much as you would love to believe. To automatically assume they lied and discount anything reported is silly. Yes, could some of it been made up by the Spanish? Sure, but why is that ok to question but you question further ancient civilizations as its 100% fairy tale? Where is the proof of lying done by the Spanish? Of there religion before the conquest? He just says they probably did. He doesn’t know either.

[@HowardHamlin-mv9rq]

I posted this on the actual debate but since this video is on the topic... Dibble failed mathematically to "debunk" the proportions of the Pyramid with an example which was not analogous; a simple statistical analysis reveals this. The significance is the fact that (with the Pyramid) the two events scale in proportion to one constant. Whereas the Parthenon & the 420 example consists of just one event scaling to a constant (which is statistically shown to be ad hoc and can be done with the scaling of random objects in one's backyard as oppose to the Pyramid situation, which cannot just be ruled out.) Step 1: -Pyramid: two linked events: (A) The base perimeter scales to Earth's circumference, and (B) The height scales to Earth's polar radius, BOTH using the constant. -Parthenon: there is just one event: (C) The number of columns scales to Earth's circumference with a constant. (A: The probability that the base perimeter of the Pyramid of Giza aligns with Earth’s circumference when multiplied by a specific constant. B: The probability that the height of the Pyramid of Giza aligns with Earth’s polar radius when multiplied by the same constant. C: The probability that the number of columns at the Parthenon aligns with Earth's circumference when multiplied by a different constant.) Statistical Analysis: Null Hypothesis : The alignment of Pyramid measurements with Earth dimensions using a single multiplier is due to chance. OR Alternative Hypothesis : The alignment is not due to chance and indicates a non-random relationship. Pyramid: The joint probability of two independent events (A and B for the Pyramid) both happening by chance would be calculated as P(A∩B)=P(A)×P(B), assuming independence. Parthenon: The probability of event C happening by chance is simply P(C) If P(A)=P(B)=P(C)=1/10,000 (just as a rough example to illustrate), which is about 10,000 reasonable scale factors might yield a match, then: P(A∩B)=(1/10,000)×(1/10,000)=1/100,000,000. Conclusion: It is much less likely (one in a hundred million versus one in ten thousand) for the two perpendicular measurements of the Pyramid to coincidentally align with Earth's dimensions using the same multiplier compared to the Parthenon's single alignment. (These results stay the same and are just as drastic regardless of whether the scaling factor is 1,000 or 100million...)

[@ty8012]

Very interesting!

[@blasvasco]

why is it so hard to grasp that any shape with height and width of equal length would match the proportions of the near perfect cube planet which we live on (which also has near equal "height and width".) The two shapes pyramid and sphere have the same proportions of height and width. If you take a single dice and multiple it by X the dimensions will also match. I don't understand why so much importance is given to this basic geometric fact, what am I missing?

[@seveneleven2237]

Can You do the calculation again with following situation. Lets say before construction they drew a circle, and inside a circle they choose the shape.( Base as diameter and whatever height remains will be radius). That would mean the pyramid will fit in a circle and in any event need just one multiplier for the base and the height.

[@dougalowski]

You also have to take into account the sockel at the base of the pyramid as it gives the latitude and longitude ratio of the earth

[@TaoistDragons]

The particular mathematical relationships that are being tossed around and the conjectured 43,200 times the great pyramid’s dimensions as being a scale of Earth’s polar and equatorial parameters is essentially true, though far more complicated than that expressed relationship. When considering these ancient civilizations and their possible knowledge of mathematics or the dimensions of Earth, the less we believe they knew the more latitude is given to find relationships, the more credit we give them for such knowledge the fewer relationships exist. The key to the above relationship between the Great Pyramid and Earth or one-half octogon and a sphere, is not that scale doesn’t matter, it is precisely that scale matters as exhibited in the 43,200 base60 value. If ancient civilizations are given greater credit for the mathematical and geodetic knowledge, therefore increased accuracy then many of these apparent relationships fall away due to the discretion of mathematical accuracy. I believe they did know high math long ago and knew Earth’s oblate dimensions as well, and the Great Pyramid does relate to Earth, but the explanation of the ways it does and why it is not as simple as Graham would have it, or as disconnected as Flint sees it is too involved for this discussion. In my research it has become clear that some ancient civilization knew a lot more than we typically give them credit for at that early point in Earth’s history. I have been using forensic archaeomathology to assess this very situation, and will be releasing information in the next few months that will clarify this issue for some, though I am certain, not for all.

[@dragnet53]

I think Graham had a slight edge in this debate. Flint was talking the normal mainstream talking points. Of course, you can use old star maps in archaeology. Astronomics has been around for ages.

[@CarolinaGirl33]

When Flint said "that's just a one-off" my eye started twtchin'.

[@garymaidman625]

It is a one-off in that part of the world though.

[@TalesFromTheEastOfficial]

I think the problem here is clearly just Hancock doesn't have the emotional temperament that would be expected from academics when publishing. When you propose a revolutionary idea you're absolutely going to be attacked for it. No one is going to bend over and tell you how smart and revolutionary your idea is, it just doesn't work like. They're going to try to poke holes in it and if you don't address those critiques seriously you're not going to be taken seriously. I think Hancock has become a little bitter over the years and it kinda shows in this debate that he's not really analyzing things without his own emotional bias. You can't hide behind "I'm just asking questions" for 30+ years without addressing counter critiques. I don't think Flint ever said Graham is a white supremacist, what he was saying is that Hancock has used historical sources that absolutely have certain ideologies attached to them and to not acknowledge that is intellectually dishonest. Hancock wants to use those problematic sources without critiquing them and then becomes emotional when others point out the problem with doing that. It's the exact same victim mentality that leftist adopt. All that being said I would love to see a debate between someone like Uncharted X and a real Egyptologist because that definitely wasn't Flint's wheelhouse.

[@2ndattention]

I more or less agree. Hancock opens his Netflix series playing the victim card and going on the offensive. Every action has a reaction. To not expect the academic establishment to have the reaction they did is just naive. And though It’s easy to say you’d change your opinion with new evidence, when yer a big media personality with your life’s work on the line you are inevitably going to have a deep emotional attachment and not go down without a fight. This is true of Hancock as it is Flint. On a broader note, the “us versus them” mentality has routinely derailed any consilience in public discourse on both sides of any ideological spectrum. Part of the problem is the framework and nature of debate as it doesn’t emphasize true listening to one another and becomes a performative game of upstaging one another with the better fact or moral argument. And just for the record, I find Hancock’s thesis parsimonious though I think his evidence in particular isn’t always the most convincing.

[@jefflaporte2598]

I agree with your comments. I also think it's important for everyone to understand that none of this is Graham's work. It's all someone else work that he takes and embellishes with his writers touch. He puts a spin on things to create controversy. As a writer he understands that controversy sells books. Selling books is his game. To his credit, this is the 1st time I have seen him walk back his timelines. In the past he has always given the impression that this lost civilization was very ancient as in ice age or pre ice age.

[@jrockthecasbah]

Uncharted X has blocked comments from people that question his “knowledge” about ancient Egypt. Lookup how he was debunked with the Serapeum and missing ancient high technology. There are more examples that prove his content isn’t really correct.

[@zemog1025]

Hancock may be expressing his feeling of the full blown weight from the Archaeology institutes and the mainstream media, that's a lot of HATE.

[@LesterBrunt]

@@2ndattention But you wouldn't be a scientists worth your salt if you didn't strongly defend your deepest convictions. I don't see how that is unreasonable at all. The whole point is to do research seriously and thoroughly, so how can you then not be convinced of your ideas? Lets say I spend 3 years finding out as much as I can about a certain site, of course I am going to have strong opinions about it that I will defend very strongly, you got to come with a very convincing argument to undo years of research. Even if I think you have a point, I will try to find as many holes and faults as possible, I need to assess a certain level of quality before adjusting my own believed.

[@Mark-jy6xd]

You failed to hear Flint say he's excited to come back on JRE and talk about ancient drugs.

[@sirgalahad1376]

And ancient chimps

[@ericbloodaxe8226]

what colour is Grahams wife sir ?

[@calhowell6798]

Flint seemed excited to talk a bout ancient drugs and their role in these cultures. He said he had a whole slide show on it a few times and that if he comes back he’d like to tackle that subject.

[@PorterFamilyYTYoutTubePremium]

That’s true, he mentioned hallucinogens a couple times, but they never got there 😞. Do u think it would have been more evidence that it is all in the mind and discrediting hancoock’s position?

[@jeffreydupont9731]

I think you misunderstood Flint’s position regarding the dating of the sphinx. As far as I got his argument, he was saying that they are able to identify some of the rock used in the great pyramid at Giza as having been quarried at the site of the sphinx (it was a quarry site), and the stone blocks were fitted with tiny bits of wood between the blocks, pieces of wood that would have to have been there when the blocks were first laid. As he contends, the blocks were quarried from the sphinx area, then the wood between the blocks dates to ~ Old Kingdom, therefore the blocks were from that period and the sphinx could not have been quarried before then.

[@arithecat2991]

Hey bro that shit was funny huh?

[@erichtomanek4739]

I just want the Truth. If for example: Graham Hancock is 100% correct, fine. If Flint Dibble is 100% correct, fine. If they're 50% each correct, fine. If it's 10% & 90%, 20% & 80%, 30% & 70%, etc, fine. I just want to know the Truth.

[@samuraieko5408]

@@stevemorley Still no conclusive explanation for who built the ancient megalithic sites with gigantic stone blocks, how they did so, when, or why. That is the mystery that Graham is exploring and offering his own hypotheses for.

[@samuraieko5408]

​@@stevemorley There was nothing respectful about what you just said in that first sentence. I did not curse at you or show you disrespect, so I ask that you show me the same respect. All the history books, and even wikipedia of all places, readily admit that there are no conclusive answers for who built the ancient megalithic sites with gigantic stone blocks, such as those found in Egypt, Peru, and elsewhere, nor how they built them, when, or why. There are only theories, and all of them come up to dead ends, which is why there is no single definitive answer to any of those questions.

[@samuraieko5408]

@@stevemorley No, we don't know the exact age of the pyramids, the dates given by academics are only theories, they are not conclusive. Organic material was tested that was used by the Egyptians in restoration efforts, as they had restored the Sphinx and the Sphinx temple complex as well. There is no evidence for how long it took to build the pyramids, there is zero written literature explaining the building process, and the ancient Egyptians themselves credited the god Thoth for their construction. The Egyptians put colorful hieroglyphics all over their their buildings and temples, yet the pyramids are completely devoid of any hieroglyphics at all. The Egyptians took credit for all of their other achievements and showed their methods in their hieroglyphs, yet they did not do so for what is supposedly their greatest achievement? Doesn't make any sense. You can even go on wikipedia of all places and see it readily admitted that academia still has no conclusive answers to any of this. There are only unproven theories which all come up to dead ends.

[@IronicallyVague]

Jesus is the Truth, both sides are wrong

[@russellmillar7132]

@@samuraieko5408 Well, Graham Hancock accepts that the pyramids are the product of the old kingdom. When he is quoted as saying: "Gobekli Tepe was built 11,600 years ago. This is 6-7000 years before the pyramids were built" what does that mean? If he accepts mainstream archeaologist's carbon dates for GT and the pyramids, does that mean he has changed his view per the evidence. Actually I couldn't give a stale rip about what he thinks about it. I just think it's ironic.

[@webgodtube]

One thing that really stood out was that Graham has never attacked the mainstream over seed analysis

[@Publiclandhunter308]

A multipart debate with pre-planned time slots based on cultures may have have helped. I thought it was a solid debate minus the bad blood between them lol. What were your thoughts on Flints sacred geometry statements? Great reviews of the debate btw!!

[@lukecaverns]

I thought it was some mind bending math (I’m a History guy, not a Math guy AT ALL). I’d love to see someone address that topic more meticulously & explain it a lot more in depth. I’d love to see Randall Carlson’s take on it + another Academic

[@Publiclandhunter308]

@@lukecaverns that would be awesome!

[@ThermicLight]

Oh how Flint was such a squirmy pos when being held against his defamation accusations. How "academic" of him. Yet he accuses other archeologists of being unprofessional aholes.

[@MichaelPK03]

Not to mention he thinks it’s right to change history because he and his cronies think the Spanish lied. Think! Not know, think. He is a joke. Hypocrite

[@nmc5657]

to be fair, other archeologists don't wear a dope hat like dibble's.

[@kavanagharchie]

Dibble said that Grahams Ideas are perpetuating ideas of white supremacy. Which is true, Graham cites racist sources in both his books and netflix show (not the woke sort of racist either, the 19th century kind). He may not share those ideas but some of the sources he uses certainly did, and those ideas shaped what those sources say. Its undisputable.

[@ThermicLight]

@@nmc5657 - To be fair Flint looks like a SA offender. But only looks like it. Of course I'm not saying his an actual one. Just that I'm trying to disingeniously defame him by making a far out correlation. "Teehee I'm an academic".

[@samuraieko5408]

@@ThermicLight He puts pronouns in his bio and introduced himself with pornography, so it might not be that far of a stretch.

[@_MikeJon_]

SGD Sacred Geometry Decoded and Scientists against myths made perfect replicas of the cores. They used copper and sand.

[@Ineffable1111]

Tell me more I love sacred geometry

[@_MikeJon_]

@@Ineffable1111 look him up then. Most of his content is debunking stuff nowadays.

[@Ineffable1111]

@@_MikeJon_ look up who though Sir? SGD? I will try that now. Thank you for your time. 🔥🌲💦🌪️

[@_MikeJon_]

@@Ineffable1111 Both SGD Sacred Geometry Decoded and Scientists against myths. World of Antiquity is another worthy mention. Ancient Presence as well.

[@Ineffable1111]

@@_MikeJon_ Thank you so much. I remember my first book about sacred geometry when I stumbled across it at a library. Will never forget the first sentence, it was. "Sacred geometry is the underlying structure to life and the raw language of the universe." - From that point I was hooked on learning more so thank you again for your help good sir! 🌝🌚

[@michaelconnor1542]

In defense of the argument that the Pyramids are nearly as old as the Sphinx. Were they not coated in polished limestone? Seems if it was a tight enough fit, it could have kept the water from penitrating for quite some time. Possibly, the builders would have regularly repaired or replaced to avoind water seeping through. By the time the area was flooded and began damaging the stones. The Sphinx had no protection and it would be hundreds of years before the Pyramids would be used to quary limestone. Which by that time would be damaged and pitted. However, would have served a purpose of protection the Pyramid's core from most of the damaging rain and flooding.

[@mariamercedesgutierrezmari2543]

Agree

[@rickwilliams9722]

Exactly.

[@KandaEzana]

Yes. An earthquake occurred which damaged this limestone. Also, after the Arabs conquered the region, they also took limestones from the pyramids and used them as building materials when first building Cairo

[@TaoistDragons]

Luke this is David Alan Arnold representing archaeomathology. Sonya and i sat with you at the front table at last years Cosmic Summit. I wanted to praise your presentation as being completely correct. I was disappointed in every way you spoke about and often wondered why Graham wasn't pulling out more solid megalithic or sculptural examples of the past to make his point. They showed the Khafre statue but never mentioned the fact that it is leagues above the other sculptures they showed, nor any mention of the crude heiroglyphics scatched into their finely polished surfaces. Or the fact that there were similar igneous rock vases found in a grave in Turkey dating to 12,000 years ago. Many points were missed that surprised me and I was pleased to see you cover it so well. Good work! All the best . . .

[@lukecaverns]

Hey David! I remember you & your wife. It was a pleasure to meet you both. And yes, I felt like at-least half of the debate should have been set aside to discuss the findings in Egypt. There were so many aspects that were completely unmentioned. Maybe it was clouded by emotion?

[@Jaxon5209]

Hi David, it's been a few years, but I'm so glad you are still out there advocating these ideas. You left your pants in the back of my car. Hope you are well. -J

[@TaoistDragons]

I know it is somewhat uncool to post 3 weeks after a videos launch, but in the event that you get flagged and see this, another point that i have never seen made is this. How could it be that the casing stones remaining at the top of the Khafre pyramid, if built by Khafre in the same couple of decades as his Sphinx was carved( and repaired?), do not show the same erosion as the Sphinx? These two objects are in many images together, but i have never heard or read where anyone questioned why they were not similarly eroded. The apex casing stones show cracking, but otherwise appear as if the were missed by the rains the caralized erosion on the Sphinx and its enclosure. That they are both 4th dynasty or even if it was long before that, the fact is, these two structures, or at least the tura limestone casing stones of the Khafre pyramid, and the Sphinx were not created in the same time frame. All the best Luke, we cannot make the Cosmic Summit this year as we will be in San Liu Obispo at that time. Keep the casts coming!

[@Nautilus1972]

What amazed me was that Graham didn’t even challenge the age of the pyramids! Clearly, the limestone casing was pulled off the pyramids during meltwater pulse1b. Where was all the talk of megalithic blocks?

[@MrMarvell]

Flint compared the Sphinxs body erosion to another part of Giza instead of the trench around the Sphinx, why? He then said every Sphinxs head in Egypt is tiny like the one in Giza, what is he talking about? I've been Egypt 3 times and seen many Sphinxs up and down the country, they don't have a tiny head in comparison to the body like the one in Giza?

[@jimijames6449]

Yeah that’s not true at all he’s talking bollocks lol. Many sphinx are much more proportional than the sphinx of Giza

[@Ktmfan450]

There could be a structural reason the great sphinx has a smaller head

[@MrMarvell]

​@jimijames6449 exactly, for someone who says he backs things up with evidence, was an odd statement to make

[@wangusbeef86]

​@@jimijames6449How does one even proportion a human head to a lion's body? We certainly have no biological references in real life lol. But clearly even to the naked eye, the level of erosion of the sphinx head is drastically different to the rest of the body, that would only happen if the head was replaced/re-sculpted at a much later date than the body.

[@Ktmfan450]

I'm no expert but I don't know how a Geologist could determine the length if time it took for water to erode something just by looking at a photograph I would think you would need much more information like samples from the rock to determine hardness

[@nozrep]

because in the science of geology, over the years, geogists have been able to calculate how long it takes for different types of rock to weathered down by erosion. Whether it be water erosion or wind and sand erosion. There are actually geologists, and subsequently also engineers, who take these things into account when designing a structure. So, like, for every year… there is such and such an amount of rainfall in a place. And at the beginning of the year, they measured the thickness of the rock, and then, at the end of the year, after rainfall and all that, they measured the rock thickness again at the end of the year. And the rock will be ever so slightly less thick. Like, “.000001” of a millimeter less thick. Then, take that number and multiply it by ever so many years. And so, thousands of years for a highly worn and weathered rock. Yes, it is ultimately an estimate, but still an estimate based on actual mathematic measurements. That’s roughly how they figure that stuff out.

[@Escape.Velocity]

I was yelling at the screen when Flint brought up that sled mural 🙄. We definitely need Ben from Uncharted X to debate an egyptologist. Ben would have a list of questions a mile long and could argue all the meticulous points on Egypt.

[@MrAchile13]

I agree, sadly he won't debate anyone, he's too afraid. Heck, he even ran away from the Ancient Presence podcast when the hosts brought up Mariette's report about the Serapeum, because it said things Ben was unable to address...

[@Chokingonkratompowder12]

3:10 he does specify on the race. He says they were humans, not monkeys or apes so it’s safe to assume he’s talking about a White race.

[@mightisright]

You should watch Mike Haduck's videos on the pyramids. He's a stone mason. His opinion is that cutting the blocks straight wasn't a big deal. Just beat the rocks until they're flat. Also, he says the face stones were straight and uniform, but everything in the middle is just junk of different shapes and sizes, which is what stone workers have always done. And they used mortar to hold it together.

[@arslanseitaly8364]

yes, lime stone is quite soft too. But this is not a biggest mistary, it is granite block in chamber and artifacts we find in Egypt like vases. That shit is super weird

[@g.r.o.g.u.1892]

So after they beat rocks until they are flat do they move those giant rocks on logs with rope and pulleys up ramps of wet sand? I apologize if this reads sarcastic but its not just the making of each piece of the pyramid, we are taught idiocy when it comes to the creation of the pyramids like using ramps of wet sand as a way to move stones. I know youre not talking about the cylinder holes but these folks in the past could do things we dont understand at the moment. This is the a big deal compared to the flattening of stone. When I was a kid building sandcastles, playing on beaches and in sandboxes, it was easy to comprehend that wet sand is not good at supporting a few pounds of pressure let alone the weight of a kid.

[@indecent0079]

⁠@@g.r.o.g.u.1892it’s possible to move huge blocks from the sphinx basin that was not a lion but more a mooring dock as the erosion was many years of Nile waters as the Nile THEN went right up to it. There MAY have been an animal head but as we know the whole things been heavily molested over time. The “head” may have been a big docking post and possibly involved for the unloading using a pulley wheel in series and counter weight system like a gantry crane and hydro power making use of a gravity pressure system buried under ground. For all we know they could as well harness a steam driven piston and vacuum plumbing. That sounds out there but not really and could be done as the great pyramid is like a pumping station anyway. That’s absolutely enough energy to pull those blocks and unload and pull and they engineered it to function as such as well as the docking and ramp way that was also maybe a flume using pulleys and whatnot to get the blocks down to the base where they could pull them upward during the build. The grand gallery would be built to function as an internal rampway as you go. That’s why it’s still slicked in grease today. And underground is a well that has water wear like the basin. There’s nothing special otherwise inside as it’s a big water pump, like flushing a toilet. They needed to farm the crops as the droughts were likely starving many to death. They have underground tunnels and feeders and stuff we can’t see and is not open to public.

[@jefflaporte2598]

Great assessment of how the debate went for sure. I agree, Graham kicked Flints butt on the Egypt stuff for the most part. I think most of the rest of the debate was won by Flint though. He obviously doesn't have a grasp of Ancient Egyptian stuff and was struggling to get through some of that stuff. IMO he would have been better off just saying he hasn't studied the subject so cant comment rather than attempting to manufacture ideas on the fly. The dating of the cedars of Lebanon I also think is from the bent Pyramid. I think it was you who pointed this out in the Koncrete podcast that I watched. The vases and the granite boxes in the seraphim are probably the strongest evidence for some sort of technology that we are unaware of. I do have ideas on the vases but the granite boxes are a struggle to comprehend. I think Graham gets it wrong when he says the core holes are done with high speed drills though. Maybe it was Joe who said it, cant remember. The cores dont have to have been done with a high speed drill. if it was high speed the sides would be smooth and not have the striations in them. Instead, it could have been very slow with massive amounts of pressure to get the 1/60th ratio that is shown in the striations. I'm also not convinced on the age of the sphinx. Sure if we go back to whenever you can say it was pointing at the age of Leo in the night sky. Now we have to also assume that the Sphinx was carved in the head of a lion to represent the age of Leo and we have to assume that 12k years ago the people knew about the age of Leo. An argument could also be made that at any given time the sphinx is pointing toward any constellation. One point you didn't touch on was Flints agricultural expertise. IMO this is where he excelled. I think the pseudo community really needs to take his information to heart. In the past it has been inferred by many that civilization began prior to the last ice age. There simply isn't any evidence of that, and I think this point was clearly made by Flint. I do have some ideas I would like to share with you and will send you an email soon. Love your channel and have enjoyed your work ever since I saw you on the Koncrete podcast.

[@saard3454]

The Sumerian and other Mesopotamian cultures were just as advanced as the Egyptians. Joe's fascination with ancient Egypt, it's understandable, but he suffers from an availability bias where he assumes something that survives has to be the only kind at the time of its building. The truth is, the great pyramids were located in an ideal place where it could be preserved. Away from invading forces, urbanization, and harsh environment, while being covered by sand dunes over the ages.I think you are suffering from Gell-mann Amnesia effect. You said it yourself, you are a MesoAmerican expert and don't know as much about Ancient Egypt. You're skeptical of anyone making grand claims about MesoAmerica because of your expertise, but you will believe someone say things similar about Egypt, because you are not so familiar with this topic.

[@inforuimteschip5970]

On the idea of getting knowledge from the outer world... It also alignes with what a lot of artist say about where there creativity comes from. Listening to people like Bob Dylan or John frustiante or any truelly inspired artist, and they all feel they can not take credit for the creation of a song. But that they are just thankful to have received it. Like the word inspiration also seems to point to. If you are inspired you are breathed into... By spirit? God? Truth? The outer world?

[@clamsoup]

Kosmographia, Unchartedx, Brothers Of The Serpent. Good stuff.

[@_MikeJon_]

Scientists against myths, SGD Sacred geometry decoded and World of Antiquity. Better stuff.

[@SebSpeaks]

There was not only wood but mortar in between blocks that have been found in the great pyramid

[@lawsnewton]

Gram's bitching about his own persecution often wastes time discussing his archeological topics.

[@risenbybronco]

the tablet in front of the Sphinx was not originally there btw... and then they encased it so no one could read it. lol.

[@trevorhunting1211]

It is possible that the internal walls of the temple eroded faster simply due to the difference in hardness between limestone and granite. The limestone could have degraded behind the granite, resulting in the current state of the structure.

[@toxicblackwidow9841]

About the age and erosion of the Sphinx and why Robert Shock is wrong : kzbin.info/www/bejne/onyVe4CVo9GemK8 Please Luke, do some cross-examination, you're fooling yourself.

[@tothiusbentheum2071]

Funny stuff. I hear a quack and I see feathers around this pond, but I just don't see a duck anywhere. It's a frog. It's that bad! Not kind of, it's that over the top insane. We know the melt 11,000 years ago was rapid. The wear on some blocks are thousands of years older than others and no one can get around and this is not the most impressive site! Everyone looks disingenuous when you keep holding on to what everyone else see’s clearly. I hope you understand what’s going on, NO ONE BUYS THE BULL ANYMORE! It’s Science that failed and no one trust it anymore.

[@ymelfilm]

Your argument around 7:03 is questionable: Experts say it looks water erosion and they are right: because poor guys, could not see the full context. Like Flint also pointed it out: Graham picks some quotations out of their original context then put them together: the result is anything according to the manipulator's intention. Do you get me?

[@no1andeveryone313]

“Extremely developed civilisation” is the best term I’ve heard to describe Graham’s hypothesis! Love your analysis on the debate. Keep up the great work!

[@g.r.o.g.u.1892]

We need Luke, Joe, Graham, Randall, and Dibble in a room together lmao. We cant actually discover things and learn, if we are too busy fighting, debating IS HEALTHY and GOOD, however slandering people as n*zis is UNHEALTHY and double ungood. I reallllllllllly hope we get more debates like this, even if it was tense because of dibbles actions, I think Graham and Dibble would find common ground by helping each other. There are things that both of them dont know, but they both bring their own perspectives, Hawas would never let something like this happen. Challenging ideas, is important! Adding in, its funny how you can have an almost 5 hour podcast, and it feels like they only touched the surface of the things they both want to debate. The Graham and Randall episodes are massive, but this debate needs to continue. If dibble thought that Graham wasnt racist, dibble would have ASKED and made sure it was retracted and edited. Its disgusting what he did. Ive been a fan of Graham for more than half my life, he inspires me to think and question things, I have never gotten a wiff of n*zi bullshit from him and I am Polish-Ukrainian. However I have watched for most of my life as people use the mainstream media to slander and ruin peoples lives, the people who push for cancel culture, are the nazis because they seek to use violence, the press, and the government to DESTROY people. The people who see nazis everywhere, are the ones who believe that race matters to the point that they truly, deeply believe that "white people" are better because of their skin colour. I very much dislike people like this because that is racism, it IS racist to value the skin colour of a human being. The only person who brought racism and bigotry into this, is the one who adheres to those beliefs deep down on the inside. Dibble "told" on himself with it and especially since he doubles down on it.

[@edzus100]

he wants Sphynx to be 12k old .. first and foremost .. because it FITS with his story. aligned with Leo?! as if ... as if ... Horoscope is encoded into universe ... and not just interpretation of stars .. as if ... egyptions knew/used/liked .. THIS fukin referance point .. so called "leo" - thats just bullshit - i can allign my house and nearby tree with leo too .. rewind clock as far as you need. Would he mention his leo argument if it didnt fit with his 12k magic number?! doubt .. - confirmation bias.

[@jonathanhughes8679]

I have my PhD in archeology and Graham says that archeologists are these people that just protects their field and dismiss Graham outright to protect their positions. Wrong. Archaeology is a field that requires extraordinary evidence. And different people have different opinions on this and the Vases and so out of place that it’s worthy of an entire field on archaeology. As stated here I find that the ancient civilization. I studied archaeological just because of this subject and Graham is just as likely as Flints “hard evidence” We don’t know honestly the casing limestone , and I actually agree with Graham on the sphinx and who ever was making the vases are very likely to be the same group and if you can make the vases the sphinx is easy. In the late 80’s and early 90’s you might could argue about the pyramids but later finds have really square things up. The ancient peoples used a lot of psychedelics, and Graham has great understanding of what we know and what we don’t. And Flint upsets me because he acts as if we archaeologists we know all, which is not true and he also acts as if the people on this subject and making these claims are not stupid and they are nowhere near idiots. Some of in archaeology admit that we have some evidence and a lot of speculation. I don’t think that people understand that most of what we find is found by accident. Clearing a field, or building a road etc. we don’t just start digging random holes in the ground. One place I think we in archeology forget at times that these ancient people are really intelligent and they have written a lot of stuff down, in the late 1800’s. Dismissed the Bible and a creation myth and place like Ur, Babylon the Sumerians were just made up things. By a “uninformed “ people. Well all those things ended up being true. I don’t think it’s good that we take part of what they say as gospel and dismiss the rest. My specialty is ancient Sumer, I know cuneiform and the the Bible has stories that are very similar to what the Sumerians believed. It’s as if you have the stories told by two groups of people and the Sumerians are city builders, but the ancient Hebrew people are a bit more like country people. The Sumerians see building cities as the high of how great a people they were and the Hebrew said that they are full of debauchery and great siñ.

[@patrickmontie9583]

So you think a geologist would be "scared" from presenting their findings to their peers? The whole point of studying anything is to be peer reviewed. 😂😂😂

[@eddie4249]

I'm mostly clueless on all of this, so it's great to hear someone breaking down the debate. Let's say GH is completely wrong and full of it....Flint did 0 favors for actual archaeologists with his appearance on JRE.

[@weatherstation71]

There are no hieroglyphs of the construction of the pyramids or the shaping, transportation and manipulation of the granite megalithic blocks. Some explain this absence in the written record is because the Egyptians wanted to keep their methods top secret. But how big of a secret was it if it would have required tens of thousands of people working for many years even decades to finish the construction? Not much a secret if you ask me.

[@DistantThunderworksLLC]

in fact, it's Flint and people like him that are ignorant of tangible, empirically measurable, facts, stuck in a narrow mindset with an ego big enough to never consider what to those without bias recognize as viable. Terrific video, and a very measured, logical assessment of the debate. Subscribed!

[@iwilrage]

I think we dont give ancient civilizations credit just because of our arrogance....have guys saying it cant be done yet almost all of them cannot explain other great structures...even ones we do today. They never even discuss the guy who has move stones very similar in size all by himself...moved them..spun them ..stood them up...all by himself! Now give a civilization with thousands of years of experience and unlimited funds and labor...and bam......we dont know how but we know they did ..period.

[@codyedwards7214]

Also I,m totally game on being your snake charmer, I know you don't care for our slithering friends"brothers\sisters of the serpent excluded". Literal snakes though, I'm hell on wheels with a machete and some kneehigh leather boots.

[@jackistripping]

I love graham, and used to subscribe to essentially all his theories. Then, just this year, I began university and learned the actual scientific method. The way he deduces information and his conclusions from evidence is completely wrong. He infers WAY too much from small pieces of evidence. At the same time, modern archeologists have forgotten that to disprove something, it only takes one piece of evidence. For example, to disprove that there was no ancient civilization at the time of the sphinx (time based on graham), all it takes is the water erosion theory being true. He doesn’t need to find any other artifacts like tools, because a complex structure at that time proves there was a civilization no matter what. That being said, it doesn’t prove anything beyond that civilization being complex enough to build the sphinx, but doesn’t prove they were incredible intelligent, or anything else graham claims. I really wish people had to understand science to say anything with conviction lol

[@russellmillar7132]

The vases could have been done with the methods demonstrated by Scientists Against Myths. If the dating methods used by archaeologists are not to be trusted, how is it established that the vases were "pre-dynastic"? If multiple vases with identical dimensions were recovered, I would agree that they had machinery capable of mass producing these artifacts. Otherwise how can it be proved that they weren't hand-crafted?

[@Mark-jy6xd]

What is Graham's motive in all this? To sell books with sensational titles and go on long holidays to witness, not partake in, archaeological sites.

[@dr4d1s]

The slithers you perform during this 2 parter is worthy of a reptile. I am definitely not subscribing to your channel, especially at the end. The racism Dibble was trying to address to Graham was not that Graham was racist but rather some of the sources he was sighting are, or at least problematic. Dibble, knowing that Graham is not a racist, was saying to Graham that maybe he better look closer at his sources so he wouldn't be labeled as one. And that sighting possible racist sources might draw the wrong crowd that could detract from what Graham is trying to prove. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know how anyone could interpret that any other way.

[@8_bit_Geek]

I liked GH over the years but lately it seems he’s moving the goal posts and he’s never actually said what this civilization was and where it was. Seems like the civilization was found since his first book and lots of cool knowledge and conjecture about it but he’s moving the goal posts and now saying it was somewhere else and no proof of it’s gradual organization from hunters to civilization

[@maddog76]

You seem to have gone to the Graham Hancock school of "well I think maybe that's what happened" school of evidence. It's not evidence.

[@andrewsmith9174]

Just wishing to touch on the notion of “where did the ‘ancients’ get their knowledge?”: I think the validity of the statement that these people not having nearly the number of distractions that we have today is underplayed. When the first group of a society figured out the early method of shaping rock, it becomes a natural evolution that this becomes a generational progression of learning how to expand this knowledge. We as people continue to push the limits of our knowledge to the next level. When you have an establish society and food insecurity is something that isn’t the main concern, and specialization develops, and you have civilizations that can make megaliths, the idea that stone work needed to be on such an industrial scale that several innovations developed can’t be such an underplayed and “alien” notion.

[@inmyopinion6836]

Nice to see you and Ben carrying the torch forward! BE, the well-read, continue to share. They will listen.

[@cdsred]

I think the shafts pointing at stars is nonsense. They most likely served a function. The whole pyramid served a function ⚡️

[@garyrolen8764]

The only real problem I had with Flint on the sphinx topic was when he said "I disagree" in response to Joe talking about the scientist saying "water erosion" when they didn't know where the pictures were from. There was nothing to disagree with. Joe stated irrefutable facts. Flint ignored the implications and failed to resolve the issue there. He just dismissed with "I disagree" and then presented his narrative.

[@duke_hugo]

It’s really exciting isn’t it. If the Sphinx was made by Graham’s civilization then it should be relatively easy to find them. Egypt is after all a hot bed for Archeology so they just need to get down to the layer that matches the time period and they should get tons of stuff if they were building things as big as the Sphinx in that area.

[@masaharumorimoto4761]

The shafts in Khufu's pyramid are most certainly NOT pointing to constellations, it's a ventilation system, very plain to see that in the manner they are constructed.

[@xNJf1NESTx]

How many cuts in this video, to me it seems as if, phone in hand, you memorize 2 lines of dialog, cut, read some more, then resume 1000x

[@shamicentertainment1262]

was disappointed how closed off and weasly flint was. I don't mind having my opinions changed, but he didn't do a great job on fighting against grahams points, and a lot of it sounded like he was just self censoring coz he didn't want to get associated with any of grahams ideas. Which i get, but it doesn't make for an interesting debate when you get the feel that one person just won't concede anything.

[@vespasian266]

We analyse ancient culture by the evidence they leave behind. There is no evidence for any lost civilisation beyond the cultures we know about.

[@buddhabless4880]

Da reason people don’t kno who built da pyramids bcuz mainstream doesn’t want 2 admit they was blk people 😏

[@LucyferSkyles]

I think the whole point of debates now is lost. It's not what it used to be and it never will be again. The internet allows people to make their own conclusions and be as smart as they want to be, there's no reason to be stupid anymore, and I think old school archaeologists and people in that aisle still think the internet doesn't exist and people are dumb. Dumb. So I think the whole point of a debate is a moot point. You can get your information and get it without the bullshit for free and it's better.🎉

[@kristopha]

flint “brushed” off that idea , lmao for a “open” minded person he literally brushed off and disagrees with every single point

[@KT11204]

Thank you, it's infuriating and saddening to see so many people think that Flint somehow won this debate. It is nonsensical to me.

[@iwilrage]

I lose respect for anyone thinking a theory is a done fact. We havent found anything yet...we dont even know what is under the sand or buried in jungles...

[@elizabethstuart8401]

As to the defunding of archaeology department etc: Here's the thing, and one of the reasons Graham is so dislike among archaeologists. Graham pushes anti-intellectualism. He promotes the distrust of archaeologist by always complaining that they don't support his kooky ideas and that archaeologist suppress inconvenient evidence, etc. This is not true. It's a disingenuous argument. Because of people like Graham that go about disparaging scientific people like Flint, and making the public believe wild ideas instead, the public begins to have less interest in supporting legitimate archaeology because people like Graham instill in their minds that intellectuals are not to be trusted. They are hiding the truth. Believe him, Graham, and people like him. Only he brings you the truth. Just send us your money, buy our books and watch our shows and you too will be privy to the truths we know! Archaeologists hide the truth from you! With this mindset, the public loses interest in the real deal and thus less funding for those departments. That's reason number two of why he's so hated.

[@MrFraiche]

Strongly disagree with this take. If anything, Graham makes people MORE interested in archeology and encourages people want to do MORE research and digging because the story that is currently told is incomplete. That is the spirit of what is he saying.

[@elizabethstuart8401]

@MrFraiche but the false narratives that Graham puts forth do not encourage money towards the serious scientific methods of excavations that archaeologists like Flint like to do, but rather the hider scatter methods of a fraudster like Graham. The money goes in his pockets. He decides what "evidence" is and interprets it with his biases. He decides what it means. And it's usually false.

[@Tsirjones]

I find it rather strange that you didn't comment on Hancock's attack on Flint and about the "cancelling" It was ad hominem argumentation fallacy and took way too long and Joe didn't do enough moderation. If you are here to present evidence like Flint did, do your job and stop crying, leave it to the press. It was just Graham who got cornered that he had to pull this card. And about the Netflix recategorizing, well i think institutions should do what they did here too, if Graham is claiming something which there is no evidence (he also admitted sort of it) and also criticizing archeologist work because it doesn't fit his own narrative. What are these for then? On the Sahara and Amazon thing. This is like the god of the gaps argument. I bet Graham won't change his mind even after all these places have been searched. He then says we'll it didn't left anything behind. Hancock has the burden of proof because he claims something. It's like claiming that because we don't know how the universe started therefor god did it. Which is even more complicated thing to explain. It's easy to understand why science communities rarely want to give this kind of mumbojumbo any air. Well one thing I do have to say, I hope more people are now interested in archeology, thanks to this debate.

[@CrypidLore]

"Well frankly I haven't seen seed evidence that the Sphinx and pyramids are older than currently believed." - Flint

[@seagypsybnb]

I got a different impression when grant was wanting to move on and saying there wasnt time to talk about something, was that he didnt have any evidence or facts to backup what he was saying and he wanted to get away from the subject.

[@iwilrage]

Its factual there were earlier civilizations all around the world...give them credit

[@oldbrokensqueezebox]

This was a great review. As soon as I heard them talking about the Olmecs and the feathered serpent stuff I thought "I can't wait to hear what Luke has to say about all this." It really feels like we could be getting close to some big things happening and changing but I am also optimistic. Hearing you give this review right after watching the debate made me wish you had been there with them for it. Joe did a great job hosting the debate but honestly I really would love to see you host a debate like that. You would be the perfect moderator between the two sides because you have a genuine sympathy and understanding of both sides and in general a very pleasant and relaxing demeanor. Hopefully in the future we'll see more debates like this and less bashing each other on the internet.

[@AIenSmithee]

Why a Sphinx? Why couldn’t it have been a flat alter she rounded by water first? Like an Angkor wat type situation. Because that boring. Guess