Who First Used B-17 in Combat? (Not What You Think)

B-17 Flying Fortress is most famous for flying daytime raids into Germany by USAAF since 1943. But long before that, another service used it in combat and suffered first losses. This video explains who and how.
This WWII reenactment uses DCS World simulator.
Sources:
- Graham M. Simmons - Boeing B-17 The Fifteen Ton Flying Fortress
amzn.to/3KkKhr1
- Floyd Williston - Through Footless Halls of Air - The Stories of a Few of the Many Who Failed to Return
amzn.to/3KeT9OZ
- John Weal - Bf 109 F/G/K Aces of the Western Front (Aircraft of the Aces Book 29)
amzn.to/3wrpZ9G
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#militaryaviationhistory #b17 #warbirds

[@showtime112]

Airplanes used in this reenactment are not historically correct because the ones used here are the only ones available and the video couldn't be done any other way. Thank you for your understanding!

[@AdamWalkLikeSuicide]

Always understanding x

[@34500dauphin]

YES because RAF don't have B17G

[@showtime112]

@@AdamWalkLikeSuicide Thank you!

[@Patchman123]

If only someone could make a B-17E or F model for DCS World and a Bf-109E F Or G model instead of these late war models being used in this reenactment. I just pray that someone makes it for DCS!

[@showtime112]

@@Patchman123 That's very unlikely. IL-2 on the other hand has various models of Bf-109. It lacks the heavies. but they will probably be developed someday.

[@mikemontgomery2654]

I knew, when I was a young boy, a man that was a veteran on those RAF B-17s. Thank you telling this story. People thought I made this up.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for watching and commenting. Feel free to recommend the video to the people who didn't believe you 😁

[@offshorequest]

I thought I knew quite a bit about B-17 operations but this was new to me. Keep up the great work!

[@showtime112]

I like pulling out these little known facts about well known things. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@bradleyjohnson3214]

you deserve one million subscribers 👏👏👏👍

[@showtime112]

Thanks! However GS and GR together don't have that many 😁

[@box8brewing829]

Well done! Keep up the great work.

[@showtime112]

Thank you, a lot more to come!

[@box8brewing829]

@@showtime112 looking forward to it!

[@davidfortezadelrey3181]

Excellent video Showtime! Thanks again to take the time and effort to teach us aviation history in an entertaining way

[@showtime112]

Thank you, I'm glad to hear that you liked it!

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

love the black and white effects

[@showtime112]

I like to use these often, sometimes I can get pretty close to original footage.

[@timg2088]

Amazing video! Such great details of each mission. Very impressive. 👍

[@showtime112]

Thanks for the feedback!

[@olesuhr727]

If memory serves me correct, I think the B17 C was later used by RAF Coastal Command on submarine patrols.

[@showtime112]

Yes, that's what they were eventually used for.

[@MiloMALONE3435]

Superb editing

[@showtime112]

Thank you!

[@richardsawyer5428]

As well as RAF Coastal Command, the Fortress mk3 was flown in the bomber support role with 100 Group. One of the crew included a fluent German speaker, often a Jewish refugee from Germany or Austria who immitated fighter ground controllers. Bomber crews had balls of steel but imagine being a German Jew in RAF uniform flying over the 3rd Reich. 😲

[@showtime112]

Thanks for contributing additional information! Yes, these guys couldn't count on Geneva Convention treatment if shot down.

[@ronaldwatson1951]

Wow, learning something new, I attempted to join your channel with no success, but I'll try again today, good video

[@showtime112]

Glad you appreciate it. Patreon? I remember you had some issues with it before.

[@ronaldwatson1951]

@@showtime112 absolutely Right but all is well now, once I arrive to my establishment I will be a contributing factor 😉

[@robbielloyd5767]

Excellent video of a little known subject. I never knew we used these in bombing raids only thought the coastal command operated these. Could you do a video about the B-45 Tornado in RAF service when they were flown on spy missions over the Soviet Union.

[@showtime112]

The surviving airframes were given to the Coastal Command after they abandoned daytime strikes. The B-45 is not available in DCS I'm afraid.

[@waltergreif4836]

Great video! no complaints about underperforming shooting. Need more from WWII and historical perspective!

[@showtime112]

Thanks, I'm glad to hear people like WWII stuff!

[@patshes1951]

Very cool video this . Loved the bombers for a change.

[@showtime112]

Thanks! You need to do something different every now and then.

[@aaronhunt1634]

Superb animation and very informative thanks for posting this. Subscribed and shared.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the subscription, keep watching! :)

[@MCMXLVI]

The Brits did!. The United States shipped some B-17C's very early in the war!. Read the Flying Fortress by Edward Jablowski!. Very good book!

[@showtime112]

That's right! Thank you for watching an older video, that always pleases me.

[@AdamWalkLikeSuicide]

The B17 does look great in RAF colours.

[@showtime112]

True. The skin is not 100 percent accurate, it should have letters too. It's mostly an adaptation of the standard American pattern worn in the first part of the War.

[@David1701G]

The RAF’s input allowed Boeing to mature and make the B17E series

[@showtime112]

Thank you for contributing info!

[@henryfondle725]

Can you do a video on the SA Mirage F1s intercepting Angolan Mig 21s?

[@showtime112]

You can expect that very soon. Hopefully, the Mirage gets released today!

[@skylarsoper241]

The Brit’s main mistake was not sending the b-17 in formation where they have better cover fire from the other bombers

[@showtime112]

So it seems. They tried to rely on high altitude. However, even large bomber formations would ultimately prove not good enough.

[@bjornsmith9431]

The R.A.F must have been operating the B17 C individual instead of defence formation flying to get those bombing result the defence formation would have bring more guns on attack Me 109 fighters to shoot down the fighter aircraft.

[@showtime112]

Yes, I think there were never more than five on a mission. And they flew a long way from each other.

[@jackaubrey8614]

The defensive armament of the (early) version operated by the RAF in no way deserved the name 'Flying Fortress' - no tail gun position, no ball turret (just a simple underbelly bath tub) and Catalina-style blister positions for the fuselage gunners (imagine trying to operate them at 30,000+ feet.... There was no powered turret in the upper position. The following 'D' version added 2 extra mg's for a total of six, implying that the 'C' had only 4? So, even if flown in larger formations, the outcome woud have been bad for the bombers...

[@xXrandomryzeXx]

With DCS being the only flight simulator that looks and feels good, and has the b17, even the bf109K doesn't bother me. The lack of simulators that have the b17 bothers me more.

[@showtime112]

This was the only way. IL-2 really need some heavies, I hope they'll do something about it.

[@RogbodgeVideo]

Actually, the carrier compatible Ju 87s were designated Ju 87C.

[@showtime112]

Thanks for pointing it out. That was me not reading the text carefully enough and nod researching the Ju-87 part any further because it wasn't in the focus of the video.

[@Ackdaddy100]

Is it just me or does the B17 look prettier with the British markings?

[@showtime112]

Could be :)

[@David1701G]

It would have been nice use the B17a/B/C or D versions i tead of a C variant

[@showtime112]

I agree. But we'll never have all the existing variants of all the aircraft, there's just too many of them.

[@harrypotterxl9326]

Which map did you use for this one?

[@showtime112]

South Atlantic and The Channel Map

[@peregrinesmith1117]

Did RAF B-17s have the norden bombsite?

[@MDsteeler1]

Has anybody given you any grief yet over the fact that the B-17 in the video is a G model & not a C? Ooops, just saw the disclaimer at the top. 🙂 Were the British Fortresses armed with .50 cal’s or.303’s?

[@showtime112]

One guy, just a minute after you 😁

[@MDsteeler1]

@@showtime112 Yeah comes with the territory doesn’t it? You usually verbalize your disclaimers at the beginnings of your vids. I love how you tell folks if they can’t deal with it go watch something else. 😂😂😂 But whatever, I think your videos are great. Keep making them. 👍

[@showtime112]

@@MDsteeler1 I must remember to make all the disclaimers verbal 😁 Thanks for the positive feedback!

[@davidca96]

Most of the American aircraft in WW2 were first used by the British, as the Americans didnt jump into the European theater straight away but did give the UK lots of equipment help from the start of the fighting.

[@showtime112]

Sure, but the RAF's use of B-17 is less known that for example P-40.

[@togaming1129]

What is the music in the intro?

[@showtime112]

That's Beethoven's 9th Symphony.

[@Wollemand]

Did the British have 50 cal on them or did they arm them with 303? Think there weren’t any Ball turrets on early models…

[@showtime112]

Not sure about the guns caliber. As for the turret, you are right. The C model had a 'bathtub'. Also, no tail gunner.

[@Pandacat80]

if you don't tail attack on a B17 in IL2, you will get shredded by the bomber's AI gunners. Here, it's not the case

[@showtime112]

You mean from the front? In DCS, that seems to be a safer way.

[@sohrabroozbahani4700]

I like how you exploite the new story telling opportunities in the new platform... world war 2 stories are just as interesting as the more modern ones...

[@showtime112]

I agree, so much was going on back then!

[@darcodonnoleonne2663]

Which Bomb load did the B17 used sir ore is this not known?

[@showtime112]

Not sure but I think 500 lb.

[@darcodonnoleonne2663]

@@showtime112 thanks bro Love your Vids

[@jeannezehner9450]

Excellent story which is not very known. In 1942, the British will use their heavy bombers like the avro lancaster exclusively during the night and the americans use the B-17 and the B-24 Liberator during the day on the Germany. They win only the aerial war in Europe at the begining of 1944, in this way they have the entire control of the air at this period. 26.000 american aviators have been lost until the end of the war which mean until may 1945. During this period, only one bomb on 300 hundreds reach their target. So you can imagine the disaster around the objective, in particulary in the german towns. The Mosquito and the Typhoon were more efficient. Good news for you the Mirage F1 will be available on the 20th of this month on DCS and they build a SU-22 version. So you could make more aerials adventures in the future. But no news about the MIG-17, if we have this plane available it would be fantastic.

[@showtime112]

Tbanks for the elaborate comment! Mirage F1 videos are being prepared already.

[@guaporeturns9472]

Mosquitos and Typhoons couldn’t make the deep penetration raids from England

[@jeannezehner9450]

@@guaporeturns9472 Of course, but the precision of their shoots were better, I think in particulary at the Jericho operation with the mosquitos against the Amiens jail for liberating the french resistants.

[@guaporeturns9472]

@@jeannezehner9450 Yes they were more accurate but comparing the two doesn’t really work

[@jeannezehner9450]

@@guaporeturns9472Yes, I agree, but there's an exeption the P 51 Mustang and his legendary autonomy. After his capacity is limited too it cannot bring six or eight bombs.

[@Eric-kn4yn]

B17 also relied on the correct armament 50 calibre browning's

[@cory4576]

Man the B-17 is a sexy fucking bomber I love everything about that bomber

[@showtime112]

It sure is popular!

[@brucewilliams4152]

The tag first used the b17 in combat, and they were not impressed. Tiny bomb losd, poor armament,

[@mikeycraig8970]

Carried less bombs than a Lancaster and wasnt anywhere near as accurate in landing them. It wasnt any better than the Lancaster in anyway other than its armament. It was better at protecting itself from fighters.

[@brucewilliams4152]

But still shot down in droves when found with our an escort. Lancasters and halifaxs flew in daylight from September 1944 onwards with very few losses to German fighters. It was due to the overwhelming fighter escorts provided.

[@skylarsoper241]

Britain used b-17

[@showtime112]

It's a little known fact.

[@skylarsoper241]

@@showtime112 true it sure is but I’ve been at it for a long time , btw absolutely love your videos 👍🏻

[@showtime112]

@@skylarsoper241 It's good to hear, thanks!

[@zagreb123123]

🙊

[@showtime112]

👨‍✈️

[@jaman878]

The airplane shown is a late model B-17G. They didn't fly this aircraft on the first combat mission.

[@showtime112]

And the same goes for the Messerschmitt. Why didn't you say anything about that?

[@anttimustonen9033]

Wrong B17 model, videos was G-model not C-model

[@showtime112]

Had C model been available, it would have been used. As it is clearly indicated in the pinned comment.