Who is Worse? Griffith vs Zeon - feat @TheAlmightyLoli

#berserk #gundam
Griffith from Berserk, and The Principality of Zeon. Two of the most evil forces in all of manga and anime. Question is: who is worse? This time around, Micah's enlisted TheAlmightyLoli to sit and talk about what exactly makes these villainous figures tick, and why they're as hated as they are. And also why edgy bois constantly say they did nothing wrong.
They did everything wrong.
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[@MarvinT0606]

You gotta understand Griffith is a entirely different brand of evil. Imagine Gihren sacrificing the entirety of Zeon to summon eldritch abominations

[@bencurran3204]

Nah he'd do it to summon hitler back or smth he's that sort of guy

[@MarvinT0606]

@bencurran3204 Oh God since we know the afterlife exists because of Newtypes it is _very possible_ to use Newtype Space Magic(tm) to open a portal to literal Hell and summon Hitler or Stalin

[@DomFortress]

Gihren solar ray yeeted his own father, just so he can ruin a ceasefire and continue on with the war effort, and that's after he propagated his brother Garma a martyr to the war after his death, even though Garma himself was in love with an earthnoid, and wanted to begin peace talk as a sign of goodwill.

[@DomFortress]

​@@MarvinT0606we could then contain their consciousness inside a haro made of psychoframe materials, is that better?

[@reidboggs4344]

And yet, Gihren Zabi’s death toll dwarfs Griffith’s.

[@luismanuel3137]

I mean, Zeon is led by assholes of varying degrees while Griffith is an asshole of monumental proportions. Zeon is quantitatively worse while Griffith is qualitatively worse

[@ezraho8449]

Yeah this whole thing is a bad comparison. Zeon is an entire organization where the Zabi family ia the primary evil and a lot of the other leaders are varying degrees of good or bad many of which were good leaders who were fighting for a good cause. Griffith is one person.

[@420gunnyinc]

In sci-fi fiction I can name someone who has a larger body count than they do Micah, and that's Paul Atreides from book 2 Dune: Messiah. He's responsible for the deaths of 61 Billion people just to cement his rule as Emperor of the universe.

[@mrcenturies1820]

thats fair but also keep the relative size of the slaughter in mind, because the OYW really only takes place in the Earth sphere, making the death toll more significant

[@spencersholden]

The Yuuzhan Vong killed 365 trillion people in Star Wars. Though that has nothing on the Xeelee Sequence. And neither are individuals so… yeah.

[@Piotr-u1z]

I expected Xeelee to show up sooner or later .

[@casey1714]

Note: It was Fifth Luna that was dropped by Char before Axis, not Luna II Luna II was where Char later acquired the nukes that would be put inside Axis to deal more damage to Earth when he dropped Axis.

[@Jaeger_Bishop]

To be honest. Griffith seems like what the average politician would be, if they could gain that kind of power.

[@MyGamerforlife]

This is like Warframe and Titanfall having a crossover, fuck yeah!

[@Vigman-h2i]

I think if you switch their resources and the scale they operate on you would see how destructive Griffith would be on a Gundam type scale

[@dwayneasher6765]

I love what you said

[@zergie4]

Technically Griffith did do that, his merging of the astral plane with the real world essentially turned everywhere that's not falconia into a hostile land.

[@electronicaardvark3292]

26:45 the original Macross ends with the entire population of earth being annihilated and the ONLY population left are the people actuality on the macross

[@jebe4563]

Technically it's the SDF-1s residents, a few thousand more on the Moon Base, and a few thousand in some of the unfinished Grand Cannon sites. Either way though... From Billions to tens of thousands, or roughly a hundred thousandth of the pre-SW1 population.

[@TheStilf]

Ideon wiped out all life in existence

[@ofaznadarxmkiii8476]

@@electronicaardvark3292 Geez

[@jebe4563]

@@TheStilf With the subtext it had already done this more than once before the series proper start, and multiple planets getting taken out on screen over the course of the run. Incidentally Ideon is where Tomino got his infamous nickname.

[@theodoreganymede2095]

Griffith doesn't care who he uses or hurts to reach his goals, he knew that before he got his hands on the egg. Point is there was never doubt in his heart with the shit he was willing to do, which explains why he was so distraught when he didn't get his way after Guts defeated and left him. Which I suppose is different from Zeon because War is Hell, I don't know anything about Gundam beyond the one-eyed robots but war is hell no matter where you are. What price are you willing to pay to ensure the survival of you and yours taken to the extreme.

[@DrForrester87]

Griffith's soul was weighed down by gravity.

[@spencersholden]

Genocide vs Genocide Griffith is far more personal and fantastical levels of evil. While Zeon is far more real world levels of evil.

[@zakkmylde1712]

Two of my favorite people to listen to talk about 2 of my favorite things? Fuck yeah.

[@inquisitorgarza312]

What makes Griffith and Zeon so evil even outside of the respective universes is that people try to make them sympathetic or even worse justify their actions in the setting. In the world of Berserk grimdark during the Golden Age arc yes, it is a medieval nightmare but it was manageable by humans. Then Griffith did his sacrifice during the Eclipse he forever shattered the barrier between the human world which was dark and brutal was still able to become better, now warp into the image of what anyone would now think is a True Hellscape looks like, all because Griffith in his heart was just too greedy in achieving his goal of being a King who has it all, but if he can’t have an object, a nation, or worse a people then he will make sure no one has. Then you have Zeon, now the Earth Federation was corrupt and it was brutal when it comes to how it dealt with the colonies, but let’s not make excuses at that the Zabi family are perhaps one of the muderous group of people because of their actions that cause the deaths of billons. Zeon was so brutal and so radical that even after it was beaten it created a endless cycle of death and destruction that it is a bloody miracle that humanity is even able to live in both Earth and in space considering just how many people every time a new splinter faction rises up and commits genocide on both the people of Earth and their fellow colonists. So yeah both are evil and I have literally lost friends who simp over Zeon even when I pointed out just how genocide happy they always were in their wars against the Federation, and I can soundly say that Griffith is a SOB who I will literally cheer for when Guts gets his hands on that Twink once and for all.

[@supsup335]

The only faction in anime i can think of the top of my head that beats zeon bodycount is the anti spiral from gurren lagann, who subjugated the entire universe. Even gunbusters un forces only sterilized the galactic core, and those were alien bugs. Of course over all, you also have legend of the galactic heroes, where they kill a few planets, but those are fringe colonies with "only" a few millions each. Bokurano comes up, where after each duel, a universe gets deleted, but each only holds one inhabited planet. So, it's either the namless force of bokurano, or the anti spiral Can't think pf any other right now.

[@BeachTypeZaku]

Zeon is evil on a mass scale whereas Griffith is evil on a personal scale.

[@SkyReign777]

Abaddon: WE ARE THE MASTERS OF DEATH. NONE SHALL SURVIVE THE ASSAULT. Gihren: *posion a colony and drop it Australia* Abaddon: *blushes*

[@dwayneasher6765]

Well when it comes to Zeon you can give them some credit because some of the people there were wanting to battle for freedom and would have ended it if they were allowed to have peach talks but sadly the old leader gotten assassinated and was replaced by The Munsters we have in the series so there are some members in Zeon are good people is just where the people in power are evil and it forces the soldiers to commit evil sadly that's how war works and. movement you can have a noble movement and have greedy people take over the movement and make it into the opposite of what it was supposed to be

[@adanfuenets3148]

2.8 billion spacenoids across 3 sides and 140+ colonies in 40 hours is insane stuff from Zeon.

[@ScottBoydathome]

She's a war criminal? It's OK, you can fix her, Micah. I believe in you.

[@Piotr-u1z]

To be fair , unironicly he would have high change of getting there . Fly high M.

[@ManENames]

Now I'm thinking about a Gundam story where the planet earth gets sick and tired of space colonies being dropped on it. And now the planet strikes back against Xeon. Earth becomes the living planet Ego and kills anything that tries to dump stuff from orbit.

[@jackofallclaws6672]

Anyone else wanna see Micah do a Writing Advice miniseries on the channel, or is that just me?

[@ximthedespot4673]

I'd like that. Might help me with my own writing.

[@ErnieStrother-m4y]

Don’t you ever compare ZEON to Griffith. How dare you.

[@mysetlist2118]

Correct me if I’m wrong because it’s been some years since I’ve seen war in the pocket but wasn’t Zeon gonna destroy the whole colony with a whole army just to destroy the Alex if Bernie squad failed? They really are crazy to do something like that.

[@BigMicahC]

You are correct.

[@GundamKnowItAll]

Char dropped 5th Luna on Earth, Luna II was still a functional base during the events of the movie.

[@thekaiser3815]

From what i remember Zeon was also an alagory for impiral Japan in ww2. And you can see elements of that

[@CharzaKitsune]

NGL, fam; I am REALLY digging the “Channel Awesome forced collab” bit at the start. It’s weird that I’m…. Nostalgic for such a tired bit lol

[@adherentofladycolumbia725]

YEAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!

[@Hornetog9vp]

3:10 Breakdown both personal and personal

[@d4rthremes]

fucking amazing collab hell yeah

[@Rubedo2k10]

22:08 I would argue it would have been worse if Zoltan had his way and blew up all of the Helium gas tanks. Plus Zeon's crimes go up to Narrative as well.

[@mazimadu]

Forget Zeon! Forget Griffith! ... Zentradi vs the Buff Clan? Who is worse?

[@BigMicahC]

Ooooh. That's a good one.

[@brianjohnson5272]

Candidate for goddess i think is what the beserk guy was referring to. I only remember it bc that open GD it was absolutely a banger!

[@Chrizinator]

Micah and Loli collab? Im stopping everything right now. As a Gundam fan I can safely say that as evil as Gihren is, he doesn’t come close to Griffith. He’s on another level of evil.

[@kowloonking1374]

No it's because of the emotional ties to the band of the hawk and guts wiping out billions will always be more evil

[@Chrizinator]

@@kowloonking1374Wiping out Billions is awful but the stuff Griffith did is more personal. Zeon are like the Nazi party and Griffith is the Anti-Christ.

[@VoltitanDev]

I gotta give it to Zeon with their crimes against their fellow spacenoids.

[@THERI0NdotAI]

Cool as hell collab, hyped as hell for Cyberp0p.

[@seanomygod]

Dude I mean even the freaking unibomber had a point

[@theterrorofdeath8907]

Should we also talk about Mars Zeon aka The Oldsmobile army and how they converted Olympus Mons into a freaking MAC gun

[@Spacefrisian]

At least none of them are the evil creep that Embryo of Cross Ange is.

[@aliesterus1.023]

11:16 Space Monsters in Gunbuster say hello from both the Anime and Sci-Fi side of things. EDIT: The folks from Ideon too. EDIT 2: 24:40 Freeza did it.

[@williamsova9313]

I say zeon is worse because it's practically a curse that haunts the uc long after its defeat at this point, griffith is one evil bastard beyond belief, but i just don't know when they get to the end of berserk if he's finally defeated that his wish goes with him though with zeon i know thier actions have influenced multiple groups after there defeat

[@mrcenturies1820]

I think the way you can look at it is if you evened the universes out to similar level, what could each character/organisations do to humanity? And lets just say, Griffith in a Gyan would absolutely cause the end of the world

[@kowloonking1374]

Zabi's are the worst. The numbers dont lie even with supernatural mumbo jumbo. There were nowhere near as many habiting the earth during griffith's timeline Griffith is evil for the betrayal of his comrades and guts, and it cuts deep because we've gotten close to guts and the band of the hawk, so we're emotionally invested in their dreams of fulfilling griffith's dream and then he stabs us in the back Gihren is on a whole different level he used his brother's death as a rallying cry to approve genocide and lied to the colonists before killing them so they couldn't resist and proceeded to drop a colony on earth wiping out billions we feel more with griffith's evil because of the investment we made but gihren is absolutely more evil Most of those ppl who died were innocent and had no part in the war

[@RileyRaids]

I mean the bad guys always got the coolest drip tho

[@mrwho6163]

Imagine Zeon pull an Itachi

[@katarvitz4850]

The big differences these days are that when people say "Griffith did nothing wrong" it's a joke by fans. When people say "Zeon did nothing wrong" it's a sincere statement by the latest batch of Gundam writers.

[@scruffles3838]

I think it's really a personal individual evil vs. grand immense evil actions and destruction. Like zeon has killed ALOT more people but on the specific personal scale most people i think would prefer being a random UC earth fed citizen than being in guts boots/a band of the kawk member

[@valhallaerikson5729]

What makes Griffith scary is how he’s willing to sacrifice those who were loyal to him if it brings him closer to his dream

[@finncampbell4662]

Can’t wait to watch this video that’s half about a series that I know so little about I thought Griffith was a girl for years up until now because he has long hair

[@ScottE-2]

I came over here from TAL's side of the video. I probably won't subscribe but I at least felt it would be rude to not at least give it a Like and a comment to help reach more people. A great video overall and learned a bit more about Gundam in spite of never really having a full interest in it. Memes are funny and all but... personally. I think Griffith is worse for four things: he completely and heartlessly sacrificed his closest allies for his childish dream. Even before becoming a part of the godhand, he undermined an entire kingdom because he couldn't stand the idea of letting Guts go ultimately leading to the decline in Midland. And as Femto convinced almost the entire world that he would save it only for setting up what will likely be a repeat of what we saw a hint through the blood memory of Skull Knight. Most of all... while he didn't have as much of a kill count compared to Zeon, the things he does makes your blood boil in a manner that changes you forever after reading or watching his actions unfold. Zeon is comically evil in the incompetence and countless life sacrificed or near-completely wiped out, they got scale down by a wide margin but I do not think there is much one can do to take down Griffith by comparison. Just by how Berserk scales its villains, I do not think one can comprehend let alone even slay the threat Griffith poses to any given world he is a part of. Man... I really want more Berserk chapters come through the next year.

[@BigMicahC]

Hey man, thanks for coming by and feeding the algorithm for me. Stuff like that's always appreciated. If you do wanna possibly dive into Gundam stuff ever in the future, my Explained series is pretty in-depth. Thanks so much!

[@ScottE-2]

@@BigMicahC I might hit up your playlists and see more about it once I feel the right time to get into it. You picked the guy to talk about the stark contrast between both characters. Honestly the toughest part would be where to start and good places to watch it by that point. Have a nice day dude, I might drop by again one of these days.

[@okuyasu_6991]

im 100% gonna draw while watching this lowkey un expected collab tho {pls tell me where the footage from nthe start is}

[@mandaloretheangry9043]

zeon 100% zeon because it will never die the kits sell money

[@Balevolt]

Hey, I'm subbed to both these people.

[@RAP-SKULLION]

"Zeon was fighting for their independence!" So was the Confederacy in the American Civil War, but I'm sure they're willing to condemn them for their worst actions and ideologies.

[@toxicdermyillunary4103]

Oh yes, the lose-lose choice of being an Anti-Christ or a Neo-Nazi

[@CursedShinobiClown]

The federation are more facist then the zeon

[@AncestorEmpire1]

I remember asking this question months ago on one of the one year war videos. (If I remember correctly.) Is Griffinth Evil? Yes, always was. Is he more evil than AM(I have no mouth and must scream) or Zeon? In my opinion, no. I think a better comparison for Zeon would be the Centauri during season 3(could have the season wrong, it’s been a long time) of Babylon 5 when they were dropping asteroids on Narn.

[@ivanbluecool]

Zeon is worse as they got no excuses by causality putting griffin in a specific spot and giving him plot armor. Lies future technology actual war crimes etc. Griffith meanwhile treats people like his pawns and would rather end guts than lose him. Basically a selfish group vs a selfish man who god stands behind Anyways great video I'll sub

[@supremeone9524]

*SIEG ZEON*

[@timoteoseagedetoffol8795]

It would be fitting a Zeonic Empire against the Covenant in Halo, since they exterminate entire races who doesn't join their "Great Journey".

[@TheGoodCrusader]

Hernán Cortés did nothing wrong He *acquired* the gold and everything 😂

[@dc7981]

Ok but whos worse the Zeon or the Decepticons?

[@AzraelThanatos]

You know, it could be interesting for an alternate Gundam timeline where the Zabi's coup failed just to see how things play out without the hitler fanboy running the show there. We know that the Federation was also up to some seriously fucked up shit during the one year war, so it would be interesting there to see just which side would end up the villain there

[@ailediablo2496]

It has to go to Griff lol. If it was about numbers then Frezia, Sayins and Vegeta and 40K characters killed far more.

[@animegamesmoviesandotherst3037]

I say Zeon because long after Gihren Zabi death, we see others do the same be it Delaz, Haman, Char, or any other Zeon group they go for mass killing, if Guts kills off Griffith he evil stops with him pretty much, Zeon is an idea that is carried by its troops, Gato being a good look at that. Giffith from what I see has nothing like that,

[@zhongxina9832]

Zeon did nothing wrong.

[@Balevolt]

The main Macross Series have 90% of the Earth Population getting sum zeroed. So the Zentradi probably has killed more people than Zeon.

[@SunkistBK]

...but what if Homura did not in fact, do anything wrong?

[@jakelibbey4631]

bruh you cannot be out here doing collabs with people with usernames like "thealmightyloli"

[@BigMicahC]

Loli is good people.

[@Shin_Lona]

Not a good comparison. Zeon is too broad... even narrowing it down to just the Zabis isn't really any better. Garma and Dozle aren't on the same level as Degwin or Kycillia - and certainly not Ghiren. Better to keep it 1:1. Only Goku solos all of fiction.

[@MrLuu-iw6wr]

Oh shit.

[@Hornetog9vp]

Did you misspelled TAL?

[@MarvinT0606]

Also ZAFT > Zeon

[@ofaznadarxmkiii8476]

I think that Chairman Zala is way worse than Gihren but that's deliberately, Creuset is an inspiration for Owlman's MO on the "Crisis On The Two Earths" Movie, Durandal is a mess and I think i don't need to add Blue Cosmos...

[@MarvinT0606]

@ofaznadarxmkiii8476 not at all, he only took power right in the middle of the war. Patrick Zala was willing to escalate the conflict to the use of WMDs because the Earth Alliance still had nukes and were outright planning to genocide the PLANTs. If anything he was responding to very real threats in a war thar his faction *didn't* start

[@Kni6h7ka1ASMR]

Simply there is no evil greater than one another it is as god says no sin is greater than the other because both these mos are horrible

[@Skritz-mt9zb]

Honestly, I'd say the only fucking reason Zeon is both worse than any faction in 40k but also....'better' I guess is the simple fact they are limited by their time, place and scale. The Earth Sphere of Gundam from the late UC '70s to roughly the '90s (give or take other Zeon's myriad spinoffs) just doesn't have a galactic scale being limited to Earth, the moon, Earth's orbit and maybe Mars and Jupiter. Give Zeon as a regime/ideology the timespan and scale larger than this and the body count would increase exponentially by units with so many zeroes I'm not even sure what the word for those numbers would even be.

[@damoistpoacher]

And none of those people would have died if the federation gave us spacenoids independence

[@soldier50first]

Griffith is still the hero in berserk. Cope harder.

[@BigMicahC]

k