WHO'S THE BEST STAX COMMANDER IN cEDH WITH LUA STARDUST - TYMNA|TANA vs HELIOD vs KENRITH vs WINOTA

This week we're joined by Lua Stardust to figure out who's best stax commander in cEDH.
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[@videowiz22]

This game seemed both miserable and oddly fun and I’m here for it

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

VERY fun, such a big puzzle

[@TheMartianBotanist]

*whispers* because stax makes games interactive

[@kokokocho]

I know!!! ..... and everyone seems to hate them for some reason...

[@jacobysimms9855]

Love the copious amounts of misplays! It's just fun and shows that even if you have experience with MTG you can make mistakes.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Basically the show motto at this point haha

[@didupaytheone2678]

@@PlaytoWinMTG stuff happens man, but not three times lol

[@jakepincus9342]

I don’t think Dylan could draw a second card from esper with that eidolon card out. Am I right?

[@jakepincus9342]

Actually I don’t think anyone can

[@jakepincus9342]

Never mind, I was thinking of the spirit of the labyrinth card that restricts players drawing more than one card each turn

[@Hirotsuma]

There was a missed mayhem devil trigger from the Solitude sacrificing itself because of evoke....could have hit the llanowar elf or hope of girapur, which could have been relevant

[@rinan5317]

I love the well detailed explanation of Cam when asked by Dylan what does Heliod offers: "Heliod, the the Rule of Law... Thank you so much for watching..."

[@Luastardust]

Who needs life totals when you’re having Fun 😂 Thanks again for having me!!

[@HalcyonVentures]

Minor point on Lena Selfless Champion - her ETB counts herself, so you should have got 3 soldiers on ETB. Didn't make a difference in the game, but definitely can in other games to give you an extra trigger from Winota

[@Luastardust]

@@HalcyonVentures yes! I usually do include her, not sure why I didn’t here.

[@HalcyonVentures]

@@Luastardust no worries, it's so easy to miss things in the heat of the moment! Love your Winota deck and how you pilot it. Inspired me to build my own for my more casual meta, but still busted as heck

[@Rezzik]

Is that a Winota playmat made to look like you? Or did I not notice you are the real life Winota? 😆

[@Thorg42]

Regardless of the misplays, your approach to those mistakes is spot on. You're all playing a game and having fun. With it, and each other. I'm not here for the format, I'm here for your attitude. This is exactly why I'm here. Thanks!

[@smolclips5996]

Boseiju is a channel ability. You discard it to use it and it should have been exiled to the rip before resolving. It got Tyler a free card

[@jtr194]

Pretty sure lua's damage double would make her lose 2 life for each trigger on vault and 4 for tomb if she would have tapped it while it was out. "A source you control deals damage to a player"

[@Luastardust]

Definitely makes sense here and I missed it! I think we all missed a lot in this game and should’ve been out of it earlier 😂

[@jtr194]

@@Luastardust misplays are part of the game! It was still super entertaining to watch, can't wait to see your return to the pod

[@amblique69]

Mana crypt, Talismans, Mana vault, Ancient Tomb all get affected by angrath's marauders, comes up fairly often with Winota.

[@Its-Lulu]

What a goofy yet enjoyable game 😂

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Glad you liked it! Haha

[@mitsosoftheelves]

/starts video "Which staxs Commander is best" /looks at run time /is amazed it isn't 2 hours

[@TheMartianBotanist]

this narrative of stax slowing games to a 2 hour crawl is outmoded by about a decade back in the wild west of commander when all we had was an Inkwell Leviathan and the shirts on our backs, the dynamics of multiplayer were relatively unsolved. however, forum theorycrafting rapidly uncovered that the multiplayer nature of the format, at the time, could not sustain the same early pressure decks which were checks on other formats what ensued are the ubiquitous value pile and hyper-redundant combo decks which predominate today games which *were once* 2 hour wars of attrition between efficient beaters and board wipes were now being decided in the first 4-6 turns, if not outright ending. think of the last game you played without interaction; how fast was it over? how satisfying was the game overall? **stax, which once turned 2 hour games into 4 hour games, now turns 30 minute games into hour games**, and it does so because it forces fair play. yes you can draw 40 cards with your great henge but you can only cast one of them. you could storm out, but each spell costs 1 instead of 0. the collective narrative about stax is updating slowly to reflect the new world order of green getting the best resource generation and card draw, and games turning totally sideways because nobody had an assasin's trophy on turn 3. but comments like yours only reiterate a snapshot of a bygone format, and propagate toxic attitudes and negative social experiences surrounding what remains one of the only remaining viable answers to the runaway power creep of our favorite format

[@ryuuji7986]

​@@TheMartianBotanist that and no one played Static Orb, Winter orb, or Smokestack. Everyone had a wincon to end the game so it wasn't dragged out to slowly attack for 3/4 damage a turn. To top it off, they are good at building decks and since its stacks vs Stacks they build their decks in mind of what they want to do and that is lock others out from playing so they have to build their decks around what they are imposing on everyone else. using tax for an example, a thaila deck is going to run more creatures so they arent getting hurt by the non creature spells costing one more to cast.

[@nicholasbower17]

By the time we got to Kenrith 8 mana 8 counters I was just laughing so hard this was wonderful, thank you for not scrapping this display of "magic's really freaking hard yall"

[@Halinn]

Man, what a showing of incredible stax decks and Heliod

[@StrataGames]

We've just started playing cEDH and we're constantly forgetting stax pieces on the field, so this makes us feel a bit better! Great game as always.

[@keep7smiling]

We need a "cardname reading battle" between Cameron and Saffronolive 😁 First one with 10 mistakes loses. I don't expect them to get past card 3 😂 (sorry for the shade, love you guys and what you do)

[@dimitriosdoulgeris4659]

About 6:27 I think Dylan missed a trigger from the Mayhem devil because Solitude gets sacrificed after being evoked.

[@Magidex]

Exile / Sac are two triggers, so depending on who's Solitude it was/is, they can put them on the stack in the order they like to get the exile first and not allow the ping.

[@curiouschao1]

Sometimes Tyler is a silent assassin, other times, he is far more sassy 😂

[@tajicbladeofthelegion5474]

While it didn't ultimately make a difference, Lua wouldn't have been able to soak up any damage on that big swing from Tyler. While Lena protected her board through Fire Covenant, it still would have dealt damage, so her creatures would still have lethal damage marked on them, meaning that with the trample from Kenrith, Tyler wouldn't have needed to assign any damage to her blockers.

[@pe3der]

Damnnn good call

[@oddball_covers]

The day has finally come. And the videos 30 minutes. Perfection

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

MORE TIME FOR MISTAKES

[@KWG-001]

I'm surprised no one pick Urza today, but this was an awesome game!

[@carsonbrinkman2582]

It’s Urza, searching for any stax piece you want with tons of artifact searches and the ability to turn off any stax for yourself and completely control the board is imo clearly the best

[@SkaalKesh]

Arguable. He turns his stax pieces one sided, but he himself doesn’t like stax. A rule of law, Linvala, or to a lesser degree Null rod and ouphe really hurt him. He plays well as the source of stax, but he himself doesn’t like stax.

[@carsonbrinkman2582]

@@SkaalKesh you are totally right, tbh in a game like this he would get smacked, but in a 4 man with none or light stax opponents, I believe that he's the best

[@didupaytheone2678]

Lua nice to have u back queen , this was a game,I would love more combat damage lol

[@Kallastin]

This makes me so happy. I've asked for this video for ages! My favorite MTG creator since best commander in theros beyond death. Keep up the work guys!

[@notjohn2774]

First Would also like to add that you should definitely do a joke video of casual commander but only stax so that the game takes like 5hrs

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

sounds like a BLAST

[@prod805212]

"That'll also come up later" had me rolling

[@AldoTorresblexaz]

Amazing, fun and miserable game. Loved it! Just to nitpick a bit more, I think Angrath's Marauders should also double the damage Lua takes from Mana Vault. 😅

[@Zelphiez]

You guys make Sundays better Thanks! Edit after watching: This episode was so on brand lmao GGs to all involved

[@bundung123]

30mins of fun interactive stax gameplay. LEZ GOOOOO

[@Blissful_Bash]

Slowly falling in love with this channel. Can’t believe I haven’t heard of you guys up until a couple weeks ago lol

[@timwooper]

Lua's cheeky grin when saying other platforms aha. Anyways great game

[@thomasnoonan2039]

Love your stuff as always!

[@watchandyearn1186]

A great example of how misplaying doesn’t mean you can’t have fun! This is a reflection of most games I magic I play end up in my pod haha. I respect the way your group handles misplays

[@xinyuanchen7853]

When Lua's asking about Abrade targets, she could've actually knocked winota back to her command zone and then been able to play it with a land drop her next turn- marauders would double Abrade's damage to 6

[@kunu9051]

When Tyler channels Bosiejueafliea it actually should be exiled because discarding it is part of the cost. Then the effect resolves after the land is exiled.

[@ericlee1113]

Funny misplays, great episode.

[@jimpassaro]

I like the video! I like how you discussed all the missed triggers, fast, nbd. Two that you didn't address was that Mayhem Devil should have triggered from the Solitude evoke, and the Boseiju Who Endures should have been exiled to the Rest In Peace (Tyler later exiled it with Deathrite to make mana and draw a card with Kenrith)

[@jimstewart4929]

This game highlights one of my favorite things about cedh. The players in the best positions understand their opponents attacks and explain why it would be a good or bad idea for them. No purposefully vague threats or whining. Just adults playing a game.

[@FirstLast-wi3jx]

At ~14:51, once dylan has cast felidar guardian, he can't cast solitude and Tyler can use deathrite to kill him even thorugh the life total miscount

[@FirstLast-wi3jx]

Also at 18:00, Cam misses a heliod trigger from swords to plowshares

[@matblack4721]

Is Lua a new cEDH player? I really liked how you guys talked through lines and supported them to try to get a win. I had been looking at getting into cEDH and watching these videos makes me think the community is really great.

[@slaggs4633]

Bloopers and Blunders with four wild cards!! I love it!! Still waiting for the 40k game. I dare you guys to play them with less than 25 card changes. Please and thank you, love the content!!

[@kurtzimmerman9272]

Is lua’s playmat and or Winona art available to be bought any where ?

[@LemorasCards]

Haven't finished it yet but man a full stax pod has got to favor WInota so heavily.

[@kellyperry5009]

That was a great game, loved the decks, love the chaos of missed damage 😅😅 felt like a game I would be a part of

[@esrohm6460]

i really love how agro has emerged in cedh. i was always saying that commander is more broken than vintage, companions breaking everything really had proven my point when they came out, s you wouldn't think that attacking over 6 times the amount of life would be good, but that early winota really was putting in some pressure and it may be because of staxing that this game was mostly people attacking but thats just part of being a creature deck.

[@frankdetank9126]

I really enjoyed this game. Have you put any thought into a best enchantress deck in cEDH video?

[@jalenbuer]

Diggin the choice in music

[@kevingibson5966]

A testament to how complicated Magic is. In particular CEDH.

[@Skream1185]

Lua didn’t get the stax memo

[@mthlay15]

I'm gonna eat my last comment about yall helping Lua with triggers. Hahah Great game yall

[@TheTakkatakka]

A mistake you didn't point out: Boseiju would have been exiled by RIP, as it discards as part of the activation cost. It wouldn't have been in the graveyard to get exiled by DRS :) Just wanted to say that the amount of reflection and recognition of your mistakes makes you guys one of the most enjoyable mtg creators to watch!

[@wilfulbuckle13]

I recently built an "Esika" stax deck focusing on the Bridge. It's super fun not letting people win.

[@StackedEDH]

Love the stax math

[@adamsjn]

This was a fun game. I enjoy seeing you all make mistakes. It makes me feel better about all the mistakes I make. lol

[@mightyone3737]

For a pod of Stax decks, this looked a lot more like Hatebears, am I wrong? I feel like if you're into slow Stax builds, Zur having the ability to find both Stasis and Black Market Connections (and you can just run Smothering Tithe) makes him worth looking at, you can still run a ton of counters and if you get Rule out ASAP you might not lose before you can set up.

[@Fuckoutubeihadthisnamefirst]

This was literally just normal decks and cards they always play with

[@SweetManaT]

Love Stax! On that Dragonlord Ojutai grind.

[@jonathanyoung2771]

When I saw the title and the thumbnail I thought it would be Kenrith. Callahan and Cobblepott weren't lying.

[@Flip4Crypt]

Honestly I never mind seeing misplays- I think you guys calling yourselves out or interrupting gameplay to correct the shit is so funny. So relatable but also still such fun gameplay to watch COMEPLETELY off topic because I forgot to bring it up on last weeks video- but you should look up Abadon, the pro wrestler- she's wild

[@pizzadelivery3]

How do you guys make your proxies? Are the entire decks proxied or do you actually own some of the cards? Would save me a lot of money haha

[@Cal-fr9mw]

This is good magic love the illegal Misplays and how much fun this seemed to be for you all

[@MrSilasAC]

Dylan forgot a trigger of mayhem when solitude was sacrificed are 6:40.

[@iveor6572]

Very good video and very hot game) But now i wish to know, who's the best elf commander)))

[@Horchata4lyfe]

There's another channel I watch called False Swipe Gaming where they talk about the history of competitive pokemon through various topics and pokemon, and I had to do several double takes this video because you had the EXACT same music on that they use on their channel for every video LOL

[@user-qt8uy5vv7n]

It's fun and unusual for you to get so many misplays. But I was distracted by that Berserk book anyway (and what is it btw?).

[@cameronbustos6059]

I always love the videos, the games are always so fun. But it seems like there are so many mistakes in each game, would there be a way yall could check each other and make sure at least life totals are correct. They really do change the game so much.

[@papaflowers5726]

15:00 the magistrate would prevent the dockside from flickering from the felidar right?

[@Xeno-MTG]

Really fun game :) Just one more mistake that you didn't catch: Tyler's Boseiju should be exiled with Rest in Peace since the discard is part of the cost and happens before resolution.

[@intention21]

Omg I agree, I always wait for them to day “BEGIN”. And I’ve seen some funny one. It’s the reason why I never skip straight to the game 🤭

[@Ray-ws6rk]

I see that Berserk Deluxe edition in the background Dylan 👀

[@nonbo_mtg3328]

I would love to see yasharn make an appearance for this game!

[@ellissanders2382]

If Linvala didn’t swing, would Dylan swords it to open up his kiki in hand or leave it knowing it’s holding off Kenrith and DRS? He had to deal with it to keep from dying so is the Linvala swing the best play by Cam knowing Dylan has the swords and it’ll open up Tyler once it’s gone?

[@Crabalien]

The Boseiju wouldnt have been in the GY for the DRS to exile. The cost for channel is to discard the card and the RIP was still on the battlefield at that point. Tyler ended up drawing an extra card off of that. Just another misplay is all this mayhem :)

[@joshuabillie5083]

Mmm 30 minute stay episode, it worked 😈

[@ElliotButch23]

Who's reading Berserk, and what volume are you on? Noticed a collectors volume behind Dylan.

[@apock2474]

obviously it doesnt matter in the end, but all of her creatures had lethal damage marked on them so they cannot block anything

[@miketripp9375]

i think you missed a mayhem devil trigger after solitude was evoked around 6:30? nice games

[@brandonkwhiz]

Do you guys use a lot of proxies?

[@zackbonno3675]

I need to know where I can get that Winota playmat

[@styfen]

What an incredibly cursed, scuffed and enjoyable game.

[@dakotawalters5358]

A 4 pod all on stax and the video is still less than 30?! Ooh wee!

[@logannipper5520]

Doesn't the solitude sacrifice itself when evoked, allowing you to ping something for 1 damage for mayhem devil?

[@koanos2448]

6:32 Isn't Solitude's Evoke a Sacrifice trigger? Doesn't Mayhem Devil Trigger?

[@therealax6]

Yep, evoke is a sacrifice trigger when the creature enters the battlefield.

[@lucassloan1960]

Played through a game yesterday with a player playing winter orb and me playing jodah the unifier and eventually just started getting treasures from the Mardu legendary precon commander and just was able to finish out the game

[@TheMartianBotanist]

i often hear these success stories of plucky underdogs triumphing over the villainous stax players outside of cEDH, stax is almost anemically weak stax aims to shut down the most efficient lines to victory; storm, combo, value pile on a good day. stax players see their lives flash before their eyes when their opponent just untaps and plays a Gigantosaurus a turn early, and many decks are just trying to set up a high conversion rate of game actions to boardstate.

[@lucassloan1960]

@@TheMartianBotanist i mean all i did was basically use dihada the Mardu legendary Planeswalker to generate mana

[@commandcovemtg]

Stax is more than an archetype, it’s a way of life. Learn to slow down, and enjoy the moment.

[@sorry987654321]

I want to see moooore Tangle Wire!!

[@toctheyounger]

Lol, no one was more determined to stop Dylan winning than Dylan 🤣🤣 things do get messy with this much stax though

[@kevinholmes3587]

doesn’t cam get a heliod trigger from dylan’s swords to plowshares?

[@samwilsonhoff6514]

Is Cam's playmat still available for purchase anywhere?

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Come January it will be available once again as a reward for our $50 patrons!

[@deant01]

great game

[@bradysfire]

I love this It shows even the most veteran players can fuck up mid game lmao

[@Genxim]

Boseiju gets discarded as a cost, so it goes to exile since RIP is still there. Also RIP gets exiled by its own effect. An evoked creature like solitude gets sacrificed, which means mayhem devil trigger. That could have been a ping on sylvan safekeeper. Not a clean game :p

[@paco4889]

Hope you enjoy Berserk Dylan!

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

I LOVE BERZERK

[@Stryxgg]

ken lets tyler do whatever he wants including put 8 +1/+1 counters on his board for 8 mana we love it

[@DrkNinja_]

Fyi Dylan, you missed a mayhem devil trigger when solitude was evoked...

[@UnknownDutch]

Does luna get 2 damage from the mana vault ? since she has Angrath marauders ? @4:42 7:40

[@mike1313132003]

she should, but I don't think she did. ancient tomb would also take 4 life

[@joeparrish6376]

Even though Lua's creatures have indestructible, do they still have damage marked on them from Fire Covenant and the damage would all trample over?

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Mmm yes. We definitely should have caught that one haha

[@nicholashewitt9781]

No, damage marked on creatures doesn’t reduce their toughness, but Lua would take normal damage from the trampling creatures.

[@firstandlast.1254]

@@nicholashewitt9781 doesn't need to actually reduce the toughness

[@smolclips5996]

If they've already been assigned lethal damage even if they aren't dead then yes the trample should go over

[@therealax6]

@@nicholashewitt9781 This is basically not a rules violation, but a misplay. Here are the relevant rules: 510.1c A blocked creature assigns its combat damage to the creatures blocking it. [...] [I]t can’t assign combat damage to a creature that’s blocking it unless, when combat damage assignments are complete, each creature that precedes that blocking creature in its order is assigned lethal damage. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures that’s being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage that’s actually dealt. An amount of damage that’s greater than a creature’s lethal damage may be assigned to it. 702.19b The controller of an attacking creature with trample first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. Once all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any excess damage is assigned as its controller chooses among those blocking creatures and the player or planeswalker the creature is attacking. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures that’s being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage that’s actually dealt. The attacking creature’s controller need not assign lethal damage to all those blocking creatures but in that case can’t assign any damage to the player or planeswalker it’s attacking. Note that, since all those creatures already have lethal damage marked on them ("damage already marked on the creature"), no additional damage needs to be assigned to them, and all damage can be assigned to Lua. However, Tyler doesn't _need_ to assign damage that way, and he _can_ assign damage to the blockers - it's just unnecessary and suboptimal. (Note for Arena players: Arena displays marked damage as a toughness reduction. This is not true: damage doesn't affect a creature's toughness. But lethal damage doesn't require zero toughness either: it only checks for accumulated damage marked on the creature, and whether the damage is coming from a source with deathtouch.)

[@michaellomax8174]

Where do I get good proxies for cedh?

[@ggangulo]

When kenright was cast around 9min in he didn't use white to pay for it or did he? I see the tundra as still untapped......

[@matthewblumenschein8551]

At the end didn't Lua's creatures already have lethal damage from the fire covenant? So they would have been worthless blocking against tramplers.

[@liquidxan6698]

Marauders is crazy good

[@damo9961]

When every deck in the pod is stax, it kind of defeats the purpose of finding the 'best' stax deck.

[@timtauber5557]

Does mtg have any rules dictating that certain types of permanents should be played in certain areas of your playmat? Such as artifacts not being played in the land area? I was taught to keep different types separate but maybe it’s not actually a rule. It does make the board state more confusing if artifacts are in the land slot. Maybe I am just OCD about it haha.

[@therealax6]

The game itself, no. Tournament rules do, but they're basically "lands go below, everything else goes above, noncreature mana-producing permanents may go near lands" - the golden rule is to keep your board state clear, not deliberately conceal permanents, and accomodate other players' requests to make things more visible when they accidentally aren't.

[@timtauber5557]

@@therealax6 thanks for the clarification