WHO'S THE REAL LCS GOAT - Bjergsen vs Doublelift | IWD

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#IWillDominate #LCS #CoStream #Bjergsen #Doublelift #GOAT

[@cameronearland5716]

The Real GOAT is Reginald . There I saved you an hour and 12 minutes of your life

[@PLGooner]

Dyrus > Regi

[@johny7433]

You Are the goat

[@lolfreedom6254]

oh I forgot goat meant - garbage of all times. then your right regi on top

[@ljchicken1885]

@@lolfreedom6254 that’s a horrendous joke ngl

[@konstantinmeyer2253]

What a homie

[@Operation-Overlord]

I don't watch a lot of LCS content, but long-form analysis and like taking a look at the history with the film.. its like watching a sports documentary... thats a lot of hard work! Thanks for the effort IWD. It's also really fun taking a trip down memory lane "sneaky was only good in teamfights" and "Bjergsen+4 wards"

[@amielgloria1248]

Man i really dislike comparisons based on how much trophies they won. Bjergsen literally gets 5 bans on mid, picks zilean, and still carries 4 players to championships. And it doesnt happen once

[@zackestin1368]

exactly this, like uzi pre winning a lpl split into msi in 2018 was absolutely still looked at as the goat of the lpl, and it wasnt even particularly close except maybe iboy, so im not sure why people are suddenly saying bjerg isnt the goat because he only won 6.

[@andyhartkopf4167]

@@zackestin1368 jensen fanboys are who thinks this and its fine if you think that, but Bjergen never looked like such pure ass and Double lift did

[@Mattahsiu]

@@zackestin1368 worked well this year didn't it

[@codino97]

@@zackestin1368 iboy wtf u smoking boi??????? weixiao, namei hello??????

[@mValerianW]

Man, I love this type of content! Thank you for going this in depth with your analysis in this and many other topics!

[@ssescobar1812]

34:02 like half a decade later Dom realices that his teammate has just running it 🤣🤣

[@валерийножкин-ф8у]

Amazing job. Can you do some more of this about other Players ? Like Uzi, Score, Amazing ? Like little documentaries.

[@einnaoeilifu2648]

Dyrus is the GOAT, he’s so good that everyone camped him too lane. From Quas and IWD to Smeb and Peanut. Everyone fear that man.

[@SignificantOwl]

Honestly, Dyrus is the GOAT just for enduring Reggie. That man tanked for the whole team.

[@pinkisland]

i agree, i think Dyrus is still secretly the best top laner. I will challenge anyone at that

[@Oblivion9873]

He unironically was a top 3 toplaner every split of lcs, with some splits being the best

[@Entropic_Alloy]

It is unbelievable how often Dyrus got camped and ganked. I guess people really did fear him in the top lane that much.

[@Welari12]

This is kind of a self defeating argument that comes up far too often. Dyrus was camped because he was a point of exploitation. This "god tier" top-laner was literally losing to trick2g playing udyr in top lane (the youtube videos still exist). Like, he's a super likeable dude, but he was really never a top tier player.

[@bayazwow]

People who watched back in season 5 will know how dogshit the TSM team was and how Bjergsen was so much better than every other player that they were first place anyways.

[@Enterblathnir]

i forget season 5, wasn't that when they had lustboy? I thought their overall team was pretty good, but its been a long time since then...

[@NotRyanCCSC]

I know I’m late to the party but MAN!! When Bjerg would stream on his first season in NA and would just pick zed and curbstomp the entire game it brought me so much hype as a TSM fan! I even remember when he played URF whipped out the zed and super ez game. Dude was awesome, hope he’s doing great!

[@Xavyer13]

What a great historicist recount. Great content and analysis

[@gabeh.4297]

IWD getting tilted by reddit makes him put out his best content. We must make more reddit hate threads to keep the content coming.

[@StoneyShoki]

I love how this video is 1 hour of him explaining "I was able to shit on Doublelift my whole career, but never on Bjergsen"

[@Jeffrey_Tyler]

I think it's a pretty good reference point considering he used it in the context that his teams were bad.

[@junwenzheng1643]

TL,DR: Zven inted Berjg so hard that we have to have this conversation.

[@georgeide2337]

Some of the Bjergsen critism i can understand but the people downplaying his 2020 summer performance literally never watched the games. Yes he got lane kingdomed at worlds when he tried to play Zilean but we are talking about his NA performance that year not the worlds run that even BB was a part of. He literally dragged doublelift who tried his best to lose every game with a Senna he couldnt even play to the championship trough losers bracket.

[@IHarleyWin]

That 2020 run was absurd. One of the greatest solo carries I’ve ever seen in LCS.

[@georgeide2337]

@@IHarleyWin And yet you have people saying it wasnt a 1v9 and that Bjergsen hasnt showed up since 2017. Just conviniently forgetting how he carried 2019 spring also with his Zoe. If it wasnt for Zven inting he would have 7 trophies and doublelift would have 7. Then people couldnt even use the more wins argument

[@MMMHOTCHEEZE]

​@@georgeide2337 I get what you're saying but top side actually played pretty well for TSM in 2020 Summer.

[@andyhartkopf4167]

@@MMMHOTCHEEZE bb played good for sure but nobody outside of spica played well in 2020 by that logic, there were performances where bjerg was smurfing on lucian at worlds and against bdd but he has one bad performance and suddenly Hes not better than Double lift. who's never looked like a carry to the uzi,imp,gala,gumi,teddy bot laners.

[@yousufzohair4342]

@@georgeide2337 or Viper or Jackey Love or even reckless for that matter..

[@szymciupol]

1h 12 minutes? The full 6 hour vod better get preserved on clips channel too.

[@iliekturtles2709]

I mean aren't we watching the real LCS GOAT right now in this video?

[@christmastimelor790]

Yo, Bjerg missed worlds with 2 super teams now, can we please stop.

[@BucsFanO22]

Ah yes, context doesn't matter at all. You got it bud

[@christmastimelor790]

@@BucsFanO22 what context do you want to add, Bjerg was a major under performer in this super team. It's not like he was smurfing and his team was dragging him down, him and hans were the worst 2 players on the roster.

[@BucsFanO22]

@@christmastimelor790 i never said he did insanely well this split. That's completely irrelevant to the argument though.

[@peng_yang]

no ones gonna talk about how imaqtpie is the greatest to ever do it?

[@supercereal1]

You’ve unlocked a memory Dom. I remember back in like season 4 or 5 I hated doublelift because he was always talking about being the best AD in the world and I’m like bro you’re not even the best in NA

[@ihateeveryone8161]

You must not have actually watched him play back then if that's the case. He was the best or top 2 individually in the region his entire career.

[@andyhartkopf4167]

@@ihateeveryone8161 in those seasons' hell no, sneaky, turtle, piglet was better he was great about after that but bjergs worst games were when they had dardoch,kobbe in bot lane and still looked like he could take games over.

[@Gamer4Ever99]

​@@andyhartkopf4167 Bjerg was able to carry most of the time. DL was rarely able to carry.

[@andyhartkopf4167]

@@Gamer4Ever99 bjerg has most wins all time too. like longevity titles. First teams.

[@supercereal1]

@@andyhartkopf4167 yup. Turtle with TSM looked like a solid bot lane with Lust Boy, sneaky with smoothie/lemon nation was great. Piglet wasn’t insane but was about as good if not a little better than DL

[@Abc-hn5vz]

Good mental exercise, if you were a GM after any season if you could get either player who do you choose? Spoiler alert the answer literally Bjerg every single year.

[@ethosterros9430]

100%. Good adcs are nice but mid laners who are on that level and also shot callers and with his personality is goldm

[@markourosevic6719]

I feel like Bjergsen over DL is totaly reasonable (I do not see a reason why would you make a 1 hour video of talking about why did you put Bjergsen over DL, like its not something uncommon to do), but you putting Vulcan 7th over the like of CoreJJ and Sneaky. And not putting Aphromoo on the list at all is a crime.

[@Jeffrey_Tyler]

This video made me realize that Jensen is actually better than DL. Bjerg > Jensen > DL

[@thebaseliner520]

If I remember right Dom talked about Jordon will always being better then Lebron and used the championships in the same way the reddit guy did. Interesting

[@budrud]

Dom is bias nothing new

[@Bottlekap]

Those two examples are not even REMOTELY comparable. Jordan was a literal icon and undisputed best player in the NBA for his entire career (outside his random time in Washington). Doms point in this video has a lot to do with that. Even during most of DLs highs it cant be consistently said that DL was a main driving force. Sure MJ had Pippen, Rodman, Nash and others, but he always outshined them all. Thats why you can make the ring argument with Jordan and not with DL. I'd argue it still probably isn't a fair point to stand behind, but saying the comparison is the same as the reddit guys is just plain not true.

[@andyhartkopf4167]

@@budrud but the bot lanes double lift was losing too weren't some classes above him in the early years. and Bjerg never played bad enough to move off of goat status where doublelift had splits where, turtle, looked better, sneaky looked better, metas were worse for him.

[@SilencedButNotForgotten]

@@Bottlekap DL was literally the best player in the league for YEARS.

[@BucsFanO22]

@@SilencedButNotForgotten no he wasn't. Every split dl was considered the best in the league, bjerg was ALWAYS right there with him. However when bjerg was considered the best dl was not always considered. Not to mention the first 3 or so years bjerg was undisputed best in the league no question while dl wasn't even close.

[@R3Fl3CT_]

Everyone: 4th? Gotta be either Corejj or Impact. Dyrus: Reginald in S4

[@Jeffrey_Tyler]

Dom trying to convince people that don't even understand the game and have only been watching for 4-5 years. They see these old clips and say "why he showing clips of DOTA?"

[@deadmo1]

lol Dyrus put reginald in there XD

[@Jeffrey_Tyler]

The only way this would have been better is if Dom had the idiot from Reddit on a discord call trying desperately to defend his points.

[@RomnysGonzalez]

Ok. After watching this i just came to one conclusion. IWDominate is the daddy of Doublelif gatekeeping him since S3 in playoffs

[@ThatMetroidGuy]

IDW coming in clutch putting out videos to watch while eating or doing chores

[@eliasamiand299]

My chores are less of a pain when we have those kinds of bangers to listen to, IWD is truly the goat haha

[@showedhimmydlckcalledhimaf3116]

DLift won like 10 splits in a row how is this even a thing?

[@jaketerpening3284]

He wasn't even the best player on most of those teams. This is like saying Robert Horry is better than MJ because he has 7 rings instead of 6.

[@showedhimmydlckcalledhimaf3116]

@@jaketerpening3284 yeah ur right Jensen was or aphro no was it olleh?

[@unicore239]

Bjergsen needs doublelift in the team to win, but doublelift wins with or without Bjergsen.

[@zzdog2200]

But like bjerg won championships for 3 years before playing with dl?

[@unicore239]

@@zzdog2200 from 2017 to 2019 bjergsen is championless when doublelift left tsm. And only managed to lift trophy once when doublelift rejoined. And after doublelift retirement he has not won a single championship even in a super team. I would argue doublelift makes any team he joins a better team.

[@zzdog2200]

@@unicore239 I’d argue that any team bjerg joins he makes better, that’s not a dl exclusive thing. Also you’re treating super teams as if they are historically a good thing to be a part of but most of them fail. We see this with tl, VIT, fnc, blg, lng this year alone.

[@andyhartkopf4167]

@@unicore239 Double lift was great at joining a super team, while bjerg played with dyrus for too long, rookie santorin, mike yueng, akadiann grig, kobbe, washed smoothie. doublelift also couldnt win with treatz and caused turmoil there.

[@jaketerpening3284]

@@unicore239 This a stupid argument, Doublelift sucked when he came back to TSM and Bjerg carried him anyway. He has had 2 splits since Doublelift retired, and he is clearly rusty. He is also not even the biggest underperformer on that super team, winning 1st team and 2nd team all pro for mid with some really impressive stats.

[@Zmargo702]

I also think it should be Bjergsen but DL is a CLEAR number 2. It feels like this video should have been titled, “why doublelift deserves nothing” based on the content in this video lol

[@timothyparks31]

😂😂 I got that feeling as well like give doublelift some credit

[@J040PL7]

Man's comparing solo kills between a solo laner and a duo laner 🤦‍♂️ Unless he tells his support to take a hike, he's not getting solo kills, he's probably getting 1v2ed 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@IHarleyWin]

Doublelift has the better story, Bjergsen was a better player though.

[@OSRS-tick-talk]

Exactly this! Double's outstanding attitude and personality created his great narrative. Not to discredit him in the slightest. He is deserving of #4 NA Overall, in my personal opinion. Definitely #1 NA Marksman. Bjerg was just a silent, perfect, little robot who was always expected to stomp. His performance, sportsmanship, and dedication is unmatched in NA as of yet across all roles. #1 NA Overall, in my opinion.

[@sotothecreator]

When making a Best of All time list(Career of All Time). Average placement is THE MOST IMPORTANT. When the average placement is close thats when you take into account individual performance. When making the Most Talented Players of All Time list then placement doesn't have THE MOST weight. I don't have much information on their careers so I don't know who's number 1 in both of these lists. Imma take a guess based on this video. Doublelift Best Player of All time(Career of All time) Bjergsen (Most Talented Player of All Time)

[@mindmonsterxx]

bjergsen has been a force to be reckoned with in na! i've been following his career since the very early days when he joined tsm many of the people might not remember since some people started watching na lcs like 2 3 years ago and they think bjergsen is just an okey player or just a good player whatever....and there is the other side of the coin as well ofc where die hard bjergsen fans think he is the best in the world, but the truth is probably somewhere in between but one thing is for sure no1 can debate the dominance bjergsen had domestically, he single handedly carried tsm for many many years and if it was up to me regi should probably start building his statue in front of the tsm office, its sad to see that he lost some of the magic or maybe confidence that made him so great in his career i dont even know how can any1 even debate that bjergsen is the greatest mid in na history but even so i think his career is a bit bittersweet since he is still chasing for that international glory that MAY never come at this stage of his career regardless for me he is the greatest, Thank you dom for this video CHeers

[@darthbelicheck3559]

How can bjerg be in goat conversation when he is not even better than Jensen??

[@msms-xw5qp]

I would give it to bjgergsen, but some of this is really delusional and the arguments are bad so biased. When bjergsen and doublelift versed in the finals, there was a massive bot gap that series and you straight out said there wasnt. Ezreal was terrible in that meta and zven was basically forced to play him. Behind the scenes, when they were down 0-2, doublelift basically gave a speech that he wanted to like play through bot and he didnt think zven was good. Go and watch game 3 of that finals. When zven got caught, was doublelift on comms telling the team to get ready to make a play. The entire reason game 5 was on a knives edge for so long, was ezreal was just a terrible pick in that meta, but zven was forced to play it. Game shouldnt of been that hard > all comes back to the bot diff. Dude could not lane verse doublelift and core. And dominate like, says there is no bot difference in that series.

[@nostalgiacorner1999]

Exactly. Doublelift said I want kill pressure bot and took Varus. And Iwd just completely ignores this

[@msms-xw5qp]

@@nostalgiacorner1999 That series, in my eyes, was brokenblade gapping the living shit out of impact. I made a post about it on TSM reddit and got permabanned because of bjergsen worship circle jerk. IWd kinda hinted and realized that rewatching it, but to not see that just blows my mind. Hes just so stuck in the narrative that bjergsen is the superhero. Llooking back, he has very obviously went on to have more success and is/was the best player in that series. Its just.....so obvious.

[@DelgaDude]

People still deny your points and call you a Bjerg fanboy...

[@Zeronightmarefox]

Watching IWD objectively discredit some random "Fan" certainly is entertaining.

[@ethanhowson6512]

This shit is so funny to me. Like when people argue the #1 on the NFL's top 100 every year. That award is voted on by the players and Armchair Andy's dismiss it when its literally given to who everyone in league says is the best player. Who better to say who is the GOAT than their peers? The fact majority of past pros who played in DL and Bjerg primes voted Bjerg is enough for me. Even the 2nd half of Rush Hour voted Bjerg like cmon

[@jessetatum5275]

DOM offended someone said hes wrong.

[@SilencedButNotForgotten]

Dom being subjective 'cause Dlift has ego and personality. As every other ex pro, since they got trashtalked by the real GOAT.

[@ozkansolmazjr]

As a huge bjerg and dl fan I would call dl the 1st

[@Soupreme2]

Dyrus votes are so troll I'm surprised he didn't list Chaox as 1st

[@OkibaGhostway]

people don't ask how they ask how many

[@Verlisify]

Worth noting Bjergsen was playing 4v5 with Dyrus Top

[@Sanfaso]

Not gonna lie, i went into this video as a DL fanboy, that was gonna dissagree with Dom, but i got out with understanding his decision making, agreeing in a lot of his points, but still puting DL first because i'm still a fanboy.

[@Straker9063]

the fact that people even contest that an ADC is the better player all around than a Mid that FREQUENTLY carries games (not the main role of a mid laner btw) while claiming that the ADC carries the Mid all the time (totally ignoring that support style champions often make or break games for teams) no shade on DL, but like Dom says, DL rarely outperforms his teams extraordinarily. All this while DL is jumping around some of the best teams in the League, while Bjerg is stuck on TSM for the majority of his career, having hard decayed from around season 6 onwards, of course Bjerg holds more value as a player.

[@mrgameoz]

I member CLG memes about korean bootcamp, and dexter saying 1 week of practice in korea is better than LCS. KEKW

[@TheKman42]

If championships were the end all be all then people would rank Bill Russell over Micheal Jordan, that's why player comparisons always need context which dom did a great job of giving. It also sucks that watching berj play now feels like watching Jordan with the wizards

[@riseagainstthemachine6079]

I remember Iwd saying that Score isnt even top 3 junglers of all time because he had only one trophy xD

[@BucsFanO22]

Which is true. He isn't a top 3 jungle. Like what?

[@riseagainstthemachine6079]

@@BucsFanO22 Tell me who wouldve been higher from your point of view? I personally rate him the highest but maybe you have some arguments that change my mind

[@BucsFanO22]

@@riseagainstthemachine6079 I gotta admit, score for sure is up there and it's hard to say honestly. But for me I'd put bengi, tian and clid top 3. There are quite a few I'd argue could be swapped around though and I wouldn't mind. For example Tarzan, insec, canyon, ning, score, jankos (kinda, he's the best in the west by a lot but not really best ever).

[@riseagainstthemachine6079]

@@BucsFanO22 Outside of bengi i don't see the longevity for clid and tian tbh... So yeah i guess we just value these things differently... For Tian btw: Yes he peaked insanely at 1 tournament. (Still not as much as dandy imo, but who cares) Yes he also was good, partly very good in about 1 and a half split. I don't watch too much of lpl and i wont bs, that I would, so you definitely have the favor of the doubt here for me.

[@grootgrrot9552]

@@BucsFanO22 how the f does clid and tian come up after their poor seasons??? Tian got better now but he was awful. Do you see canyon and other LPL/LCK junglers or do you live in 2019?

[@jessetatum5275]

YOU AND THOORIN BOTH THINK YOU KNOW EVERYTHING....

[@wakkawakkagaming3710]

This video has the same energy as YMS making a 2 hour Kimba video for the pure joy for proving online fanatics wrong

[@mlarvitar8265]

Hey Dom! After watching the stream, and also watching the highlights of TL vs TSM in Summer 2018 W9 where Bjergsen just 1v9'd TL, I must say you changed my mind. Impact and Jensen should be above DL, so he should be 4th instead 👍

[@princeofgreece9054]

Even CoreJJ voted Bjerg as the best NA player of all time dude and that man laned with Doublelift for 2 years. Argument over.

[@Markus59L]

If you dont count as carry just cause you dont play for yourself and dont play for high dmg output you can also say that supports are never the MVP cause they dont deal dmg

[@shaerigir88]

Yeah I dont know how this is up for discussion. The fact this guy is downplaying how good Corejj is too is beyond cringe. Considering the reason why Bjerg wanted to play with Corejj so badly was because how much Doublelift praises Corejj. This guy apparently knows more about Corejjs skill than Doublelift himself does. The dominance showed by Bjerg domestically his entire career is unmatched.

[@nostalgiacorner1999]

Where is the “dominance by Bjerg” from 2018-2022? Where is CoreJJ’s championship without Doublelift?

[@Theodoros.8]

Please my man Dom make a commentary of a game you played in your pro career

[@mahatmaniggandhi2898]

he did one a while ago

[@CT-gc5rt]

Using mvp arguement is weird, since ADC and Top laners rarely ever get MVP.

[@SilencedButNotForgotten]

It's clearly DL.

[@bishoplombard9283]

Was waiting for this dom another comment to come

[@SilencedButNotForgotten]

Dyrus being on that panel is a JOKE.

[@TheLoos3Goos33]

This felt like a kid who skimmed a book giving a report on it, and the disappointed teacher proving a point.

[@joshuabryant9845]

This debate is pointless and futile, and I'll tell you why Dom literally says himself it's not the best measure to use team accomplishments to decide the goat. Well, here's the other problem. Individual awards aren't either. Remember the year Jensen was 1st team all pro and literally lost the mvp to Bjergsen anyway? That sort of shit makes it futile. There will never be a perfectly clear goat. End of. Cry about it.

[@andyhartkopf4167]

i mean unless its agreed upon that bjerg is the goat by former players, castor and current pros

[@StocksNShares]

Agree with support champion played well by bjerg. Props for that

[@dmitryrodionov2386]

Man, I was just thinking on a surface level and still I thought that Bjergsen is better than Doublelift, but watching all these vods.... it's not even close, like Bjergsen has been the CEO of NA for so long and any other player you put against him just pales in comparison!

[@BeanMGG]

Lmfao i died when he said Regi was like the Kool-aid man. Just busts in and tells everyone what to do

[@zackestin1368]

the people who say only championships matter are the same people who would say ruler and uzi are the goat adcs of their regions, despite ruler only winning his first championship this year and uzi in 2018.

[@lennzo9231]

Also Chovy just won his 1st championship, i guess he's not really that good xD

[@trailmiix7581]

I would love more history based videos, dom is super knowledgeable

[@EE12345]

DL > Bjerg. Bjerg can't win shit without DL on his team lmao, unless you look back 6 years.

[@zackestin1368]

DL couldnt find a team without sleeping with the president lmao, unless you look back 4 years.

[@andyhartkopf4167]

he did win without him... and DL looked pretty average in a meta that was great for ads, and he has 4 of the top 10 in his team barely beating tsm with players like akadian and grig.

[@andyhartkopf4167]

and those six years count where doublelift was looking like 3rd best in his role bjergsen never looked like that

[@theshinshi4620]

Brought so many memories back Dom , damn . I once again felt true LoL content that i loved and missed .

[@scoobertmcduck2998]

"The Korean Fellatio Enthusiast" caught me off guard. lmao

[@MalphasMikaelson]

Regular season is literally irrelevant, MVP's do not matter.

[@SilencedButNotForgotten]

Also: 3 of Bjergsen's MVPs out of his 4 are before imports were a thing. 😂

[@StocksNShares]

Stop arguing over who is better as both roles have very different skill expression. They are both insanely good players. You talk about contextualising against Berj, then do exact same to Doublelift straight after.

[@jalc884]

Exactly

[@Steve_R418]

There were times when Doublelift was the best player but Bjergsen was way more consistent throughout his entire career. Also I think Bjergsen being the shot caller for the team is a pretty big deal because its something Doublelift never did.

[@JustDoYourJob]

Spring 2018 was DLS best playoffs and it’s not debatable sir.

[@propensitygaming]

those who says dl is better pretty much never saw prime Bjergsen, and his sheer domination over everyone. its so weird to see all the casters picked doublelift as their number. EIther they dont understand the game or RIot is employing some dumbs

[@5x385]

You coulda just asked to call double lift, he’s egotistical but it’s a confidence thing not an asshole thing and though he can be an asshole it’s about expectations and I don’t think if you asked him point blank “are you the goat or is Bjergsen the goat” he’d say himself. He would surely say Bjergsen has had a greater impact on NA but maybe also bring up role impact if he had any argument at all. He did play at a time where ADC changed a lot.

[@andyhartkopf4167]

they don't care nearly as much and yeah adc did change a lot into a mage meta a tank bruiser meta, hes a good player but definitely had splits where others were better than him when he was at his most cocky.

[@lucasalarcon3230]

bj have more impact but mid was far weaker that adc. adc was legit the best NA lane until very recent

[@grootgrrot9552]

Bro doublelift hates Dom and blocked him over petty things. There's a reason Dom is passive aggressively shitting on doublelift here

[@magnust3779]

just a fantastic video Dom, the league scene is lucky to have you in it fr

[@vorbo01]

This is pretty easy to sort out tbh. Doublelift is the only one out of the two of then who is actually NA, so he's the only one who it could possibly be

[@archaontheeverchosen539]

The dude is probably just a Dom fan and said those crazy stuff to get Dom to make content for us God bless him

[@16gig]

I love Doublelift and I'm not even that big of a fan of Bjergsen but I see the GOAT argument like this... Doublelift is that anime protagonist that wins with plot armor and ass-pulls by an author but Bjergsen is like that anime villain that has trained for millenia, has OP as fuck powers and legit unkillable status but miraculously loses to doublelift. Like, both are amazing players but Doublelift legit has plot armor, it's crazy.

[@amadeux5471]

I'm a massive DL fan and biased af towards him. This was a bit hard to follow since I always remembered Double on a rose-tinted glasses carrying games especially in 2019 summer. Now I'm convinced that Bjerg is the definitive NA goat

[@andyhartkopf4167]

this doesn't mean Double lift is bad, bjergsen was always underappreciated and did a lot for an org that just expected him to play with whoever at certain times over TL who will spend if need be

[@manasik6108]

holy shit wasn't this a 6 hr stram?

[@deseanlothian]

Bro, in another timeline C9 Hai would have been number 1

[@henrym.1290]

Disagreed on the corejj point , people were on him prior due to his solo q games as well as the scrim games pro would set up when corejj originally came

[@ggdsds8527]

i remeber bjerg the best player of na

[@MrThemogget]

Hi Dom, I think youve done a great detailed gameplay case for bjerg being MVP. I think the case for doublelift is more in line with the case for perkz: success has followed him The reason doesn't matter, it might be ineffable, it might be intangibles, it might be that plays which look weird actually draw pressure and allow team success, it could be anything. On the other side, while you can highlight great play from bjerg, it does seem that despite his impressive in game play, there is a reason preventing a blossoming trophy case unless he is litterally hard 1v9ing, or on doublelifts team. Why is this? Is it bad luck? Does he have too large a voice? Does he demand too much from teammates? Who knows, but it IS reality

[@princeofgreece9054]

You can say success followed doublelift, but look at the people he got to play with compared to Bjerg after Doublelift went to TL. Doublelift got to play with one of the best supports in the world, along with Impact, Jensen in their prime. Meanwhile, Zven and mithy failed spectacularly on TSM, and TSM struggled to find a good consistent jungler. It’s absolutely the case that Doublelift was good himself, but was surrounded by players at his level. You could easily make an argument that Bjerg didn’t have that, not at all. And yet, for Bjergsen to still perform as well as he did while in that environment is really crazy.

[@MrThemogget]

@@princeofgreece9054 Hi Prince of greece, I think you may have missed my point slightly! What you have just said is true, but why is it true? TL had gone through many roster attempts before DL joined - including one where DL literally subbed into TL to save them from relgation! Does doublelift have the ability to convince good players to play with him? Does Bjergsen make otherwise good players lose confidence or play a style more suited to him? The answer is we dont know. What we do know, is that teams with doublelift on win trophies, and teams with bjerg on consistently have all star players look like shadows of themselves. The current TL lineup is even a good example of this. Bjerg in my opinion is actually looking like one of the better players on this TL roster, after maybe santorin. But why? Why is corejj so much worse? Why has hansama become nohandsama? Sucess is following one of these players with the exception of the split where doublelift was litterally admitting he wasnt trying because "spring doesnt matter" and collapse is following the other. I dont really like the "bjerg hasnt had good teams" angle. He has had absolutely beastly rosters built around him with top imports, they just never look good playing with him. Santorin was literally on his team before, and looked awful. He had the "best bot in the west" imported to replace doublelift, broken blade, the list goes on. As I said, we dont know the reasons - we can only know the outcomes.

[@nostalgiacorner1999]

This is the best understanding of the debate

[@II-wu7mx]

You sort of undermine your larger point at 17 minutes. This leads in to the bigger point. I think the dl defenders are reaching out for something that has been an itch that hasn’t been scratched in a long long time, international respect. Yes, you were told not to include worlds etc in your calculations but if you’re willing to put weight on your anecdotal evidence of playing against them then I can put weight on my viewing experience. NA mid players suck, bad. Like bad bad comparatively to the rest of the world. Bjergsen is far and away the best ever in nalcs in the most impactful role in the game. He also got absolutely lane kingdomed at worlds, which told a lot of people he wasn’t that great except for comparatively to NA.

[@RomnysGonzalez]

The goat of NA is Dom for putting such a quality content

[@sidenRden]

editor the goat for cutting a 6h stream to 1h

[@ot1346]

Sneaky > doublelift but jsut to help DLs adc case, I feel like ADC competition in NA was far better than midlane. There were always better plays in Adc than there were mid. I swear the only good mids NA had were like Jensen POE and Notorious POB

[@Leah_Newton]

If they only count GOAT ONLY by winning Championship/Worlds, ......that's a weird way to define Faker as GOAT. Shouldn't he have won EVERY Championship/Worlds then? If not, he should not be the GOAT.

[@ObiWanIsCool]

I think the only reason Doublelift started to be considered the GOAT of NA is because of the championships. I think throughout LCS history, Sneaky is the best NA ADC. If Sneaky was on those TL teams, nobody would be talking about Doublelift like they do now.

[@aaronperry3950]

I was promised this would be 3-4 hours long Dom

[@bojidarlechev8189]

What a way to prove a point. You just showed the worst plays/mistakes that DL made throughout the years. I am not even saying that DL>Bjerg but come on burh... Very biased way of analyzing imo.

[@BucsFanO22]

Hours and hours of proven evidence and you just say "bias". Lmao. It's incredible.

[@aly8595]

33:02 I almost choke with this 🤣

[@shinobuu__]

I think you're wrong. I wont explain why, nor will I watch past the first 2 mins, but just know that I am right and you arent. DOUBLELIFT #1

[@cloud9imperial772]

I like dom and I agree the bjerg is the goat while I think it’s closer than dom thinks, but dom sounds like a total bjerg fanboy and dl hater, he sounds like pure Reddit commentator bjerg fanboy

[@trailmiix7581]

what and absolute banger video, super well edited as well great job dominico

[@StocksNShares]

Mid laners time to kill is more than half an ADC time to kill across all seasons early/mid game. As soon as ulti comes online for mid. You can pretty much 80-0 someone with full combo (3/4 secs). Bot lane full combo and 6 autos+ making it so much longer. Meaning getting kills bot without gank is the hardest thing to do. As you are xp sharing, you scale with items you don't have. You have low mobility. I'm not saying this because I am a double lift fanboy. There is a reason why all the top players for solo kills are mid laners. There is more skill expression to be had mid, allowing for skill gaps to shine more than in bot lane. GOAT is Faker for league. Any other GOAT category has to be separated by role I would say.

[@karljones7976]

yea but when you compare players in different roles the way you do it is by comparing the gap between them and everyone else in their role and then comparing those gaps between the two. No doubt mid lane is better than adc and always has been, however that doesn't mean that Bjerg wasn't better than his competition compared to doublelift. I agree it is easier to show the gap in mid lane with more skill expression and agency, however, it's not impossible to do so in adc, think of Uzi and ruler for example. Doublelift had teams play around him for a lot of his career and while he was very good and deserves 2nd all-time the gap between him and the adc pool was never even close to Bjergs gap with other mids.

[@andyhartkopf4167]

doublelift played selfish too, if you go back to season 2, Bjergsen was just better than everyone, and even when jensen,froggen,eu mids showed up he still won under their nose.

[@StocksNShares]

@@andyhartkopf4167 True, but again, the skill gap is more evident in mid than it is in bot.

[@StocksNShares]

@@karljones7976 Agree with most things said here. ADC is a late game role 9/10 times. So getting ahead of the game as adc normally means winning. Meaning fighting early is always bad. Loss of xp and gold. In mid, you loose xp and gold from 1 death. You can still 1 shot adc later most cases. But on ADC it makes you feel so useless to uber late game which is too late.

[@StocksNShares]

@@karljones7976 Basically risk for mid to get a pick, is not as high as bot to get a pick.