Who will win the global chip war?

The US-China chip war is heating up as Washington announces unprecedented curbs. But this war is not fought with weapons. It's fought with trade, technology and data. So will America's harsh new policies stall the Chinese chip sector?
Guests:
Riley Walters
Deputy Director at Japan Chair Hudson Institute
Shirley Ze Yu
Political Economist
Monique Chu
Author of 'The East Asian Computer Chip War'
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[@limtc1733]

The US have just given China a compelling reason to hasten their chip manufacturing capabilities. Deprivation is a potent motivator.

[@jojolloren3642]

Who cares? Nobody wants to buy China's cheap copycat anyway.

[@oxidemeta7793]

Finally, US will lose!

[@willengel2458]

China just needs to focus on the 14 nm and higher chips in quantity and price. that would deprive Intel, TSMC and Samsung source of revenue.

[@howiescott5865]

The US didn't give China a reason to hasten chip development. China's ambition to become leaders in chip development was always there. Same goes for the weapons industry and every other industry.

[@paoloorate2265]

Americans with an average IQ of 85 will say China stole their tech again. LOL.

[@pinangsungai2116]

To China TSMC is not their goal, it is the USA that argue that is so. What worries China is the Military expension by the US that treat Taiwan as their cash cow.

[@paoloorate2265]

Americans with an average IQ of 85 will say China stole their tech again. LOL.

[@theoracle9873]

There ain't no war la. It is one side unilaterally waging war on the other side cos it has lost the competition. Everyone is aware.

[@AO-ow6tt]

It is not about national security concerns for the US but simply to have a constant edge over China by containing the development of the Chinese semiconductor industry.

[@Tom-fw6bx]

That is not the “rule” for a rule base world.

[@John-us9rm]

China now build their own semiconductor manufacturing and USA had lost their market to China suffering huge loss.

[@georgewong1837]

Not doing business with your biggest buyer is self defeating. That is why there is a glut of semi conductors in the market. Will the US semiconductors firm like Intel or Nvidia survives this war I wonder.

[@SW-fy8pq]

When you can't beat it, sanction and slander it. This is the American way of competing with others.

[@Facts..Checker]

US likes to call it market economy but kept pointing fingers at others for being state matket economy. In 2008, US govt also printed money to bailout its banks or giant corporations was also called free market economy model!!!! Everybody must follow the Rule Based Order world, which meant US's Rules n Laws.

[@alexlazar4738]

I don't know why everybody brings the question of military power? The US could not defeat China during the Korean war when the US was at the height of its military power while China was at its lowest point of military power. Should we really debate what the result would be today?

[@nanbutinanquibotiqui]

And the world's most powerful military also could not defeat the poorly trained and badly equipped Taliban in Afghanistan recently, and also the poorly trained and badly equipped Vietcongs in Vietnam in the last century.

[@themarbleking]

But they can cause a lot of damage because they never fight on their own land. Let’s hope their next war is in their own country for once!😅

[@alexlazar4738]

Who knows? When the US invades Canada around the end of this century due to climate change problems, it is possibly Canadians will burn down Whitehouse once again.

[@willengel2458]

@@nanbutinanquibotiqui do you think North Viet-Nam could've imposed a DMZ on the US? the Soviet Union was providing arms and China was providing manpower and supplies to NVN, even the Viet-Namese thought they won the war by themselves.

[@nanbutinanquibotiqui]

@@willengel2458 Agreed that Russia and China were assisting the North Vietnamese but the US had the most extensive firepower. Most of the world expected the US to defeat the Vietcong but that was not to be. The Vietcong launched a surprise Tet Offensive (can't remember which year it was) that caught the US military by surprise (because the Vietnamese were supposed to be celebrating their new year but instead decided to fight). No, North Vietnam was not interested in any DMZ because their aim was to conquer the south.

[@rabuanmantine8522]

Relocating TSMC to Arizona does not make US market leader in Chips industry…

[@nanhinting7447]

500 Taiwanese talents went over to TSMC Arizona and already they were complaining about discrimination in Arizona plant. They were paid lesser than their American counterparts and have to work on permanent night shifts. How would US attracts talents if their American workers are Xenophobic?

[@zzzz6511]

@@nanhinting7447 America is just sucking their blood and will discard them later

[@ianboard544]

@@nanhinting7447 I'm less worried about them than I am getting enough local talent.

[@paoloorate2265]

@@nanhinting7447 Americans only have an IQ of 85 on average. They cant make quality products anymore so they need the Taiwanese help which are basically also Chinese. LOL

[@tanbw922]

It is such a volatile and uncertain situation. Each of the speakers has his or her own biases. Time will tell who has a more accurate picture of the future of this chip competition. Nevertheless I don’t think banning the flow of information and talent, putting obstacles in the path of the competitor to trip or delay him is the right thing to do. It shows desperation and the lack of better ideas to compete.

[@SteveShen3089]

Unfortunately that’s what is happening now

[@jamessinga6016]

US chips will become more expensive due to the cost of production. Most industries are business oriented and Where's the biggest markets in the world today!!?

[@holygrail7372]

Elon musk f over china.

[@Amidat]

yeah these were pro American speaker obviously

[@paoloorate2265]

Americans with an average IQ of 85 will say China stole their tech again. LOL.

[@jonhone1]

The US shot itself in the foot by trying to slow down China’s tech industry. 😅

[@marcos-ll2yr]

exactly China is already producing chips at 7nm. Won't be long before they start doing 5nm/2nm.

[@byhyew]

The US will succeed in slowing China down, but in the longer term it will compell China to pour resources into break potential American headlock, not just chips.

[@holygrail7372]

I beg to differ. I think China has been delaying its independence. Time to move forward. China needs to compete on every level.

[@paoloorate2265]

Americans with an average IQ of 85 will say China stole their tech again. LOL.

[@albertwong1919]

Does the panel understands that u dont really need highly advance chips on 5nm and below for military missiles, weaponry? First, military grade chips needs to be very robust and operate in either high temp, or low temp, and subjected to shocks, vibrations, etc... current chips that are in our handphones wont meet these specs. Moreover, for missiles, drones etc.. the lifespan of such devices are very short. The sanctions are just to curb China's rise and lead in technology like AI, super computers, robotics etc.. and are more commercial in nature. But than all these wont really stop China, its just a speed bump that will slow China's progress but looking at the current economic climate, recession in both the west and US is looming, whereas China with its dual economic strategy is probably going to weather the coming economic storm and this time I dont think China will helpout the US by buying its worthless bonds and cheap money printing. Looking back a year from this comment, lets see if my predictions comes true.

[@alexlazar4738]

I don't know why everybody brings the question of military power? The US could not defeat China during the Koream war when the US was at the height of its military power while China was at its lowest point of military power. Should we really debate what the result would be today?

[@hioeacin4381]

💯💯 ✓ 🐉.🐉. ✍️. 🤣🤣🤣

[@howiescott5865]

Nothing will stop China's efforts to rule the world. China will do everything to dethrone the US as an economic and geopolitical power. That's China's ambition regardless of US relations, warm or cold. Regardless of your thoughts on worthless US bonds and cheap money printing, the US Dollar is still the world reserve currency. In recent months every currency in the world has devalued to the USD. China's economy is not so robust as it once was years ago. COVID lockdowns, the real estate debacle with Evergrande and others, rising unemployment, bank reserves running dangerously low and foreign divestment has put China's growth on a steep decline. Chinese markets are shrinking both foreign and domestic. I'm from China but I'm in the US now. I worked in the aerospace industry for over 50 years. I'm retired now. I wouldn't bet my ranch on your predictions. My money is on the US. China should pay more attention to India than to the US, IMAO.

[@albertwong1919]

@@howiescott5865 - So u dont understand the big picture, u probably a technical guy so helicopter view is probably not your forte. China is not trying to rule the world! First China has huge income disparity but not the kind facing the US with a vanishing middle class and rising pay check to pay check population group. China just last year announce they have eradicated extreme poverty for over 700million people, and China growing middle class is around 450million. But for the CCP to keep the mandate, it has to deliver and bring common prosperity majority of their people. This is probably an alien concept to the US, just looking at the US from where I studied during the early 1980s and now I already see the decay in the system-printing money, failing infrastructure, failing educational system, drug problem, gun problem, corruption at all levels of government from Congress, to Senate and now judicial system with life time tenure for judges its a system build on rotting structures. Also how well do u understand India, Spore we planted our seeds in India shorting after we planted in China too but the seeds still havent taken off and in China it flew to the moon. India will never develop as fast as China and one reason is India is not as homogeneous as China and too many infighting, racial, caste difference is making it hard. US debt is more than 31 Trillion unless u call rampant and irresponsible fiat money printing an economic strategy than yeah bet on the US.

[@paoloorate2265]

Americans with an average IQ of 85 will say China stole their tech again. LOL.

[@benganchan1420]

The biggest market for semiconductors will win . The world runs on money.

[@alrizo1115]

What differentiate China from USSR is that China don't isolate itself from the world. Instead it expands. That's a hard opponent for USA.

[@limtc1733]

TSMC setting up plants in the US was not a commercial decision, it was a political one. These plants may not make enough profits to be viable in the long run and cost TSMC a great deal of money.

[@nanbutinanquibotiqui]

It's obviously a very malicious political act on the part of the US. lt does not make commercial sense to operate a sophisticated and expensive plant in a high cost country that lacks a manufacturing ecosystem and relevant supply chains. l surmised that TSMC was threatened by the American political establishment to do so.

[@paoloorate2265]

Americans with an average IQ of 85 will say China stole their tech again. LOL.

[@Bangy]

TSMC is experiencing the 瓜老外 first hand.

[@louistan7560]

The one who started it has already lost.

[@CondenseFact]

Short term: US Long term: China

[@nanbutinanquibotiqui]

You are right. This would be the most likely outcome.

[@paoloorate2265]

Americans only have an IQ of 85 on average. They cant make quality products anymore so they need the Taiwanese help which are basically also Chinese. LOL

[@jesusinsideful]

I pray for China will win,cause China for the word

[@eymeeraosaka2954]

Are we by any chance over-rating ASML and TSMC? When I was gainfully employed, I had been constantly reminded by my bosses no one is indispensable. So I see US attempt to strangulate China not only in semi-conductors but all areas as just a temporary setback and motivator....Ultimately China will emerge stronger and wiser....One good example was the International Space Station. The US prohibited China from participating. Today China has its own space station. So I have no doubt the US policy will fail and fail miserably simply because it no longer has the eco-system to thrive economically.....As saying goes..."There is a season for everything under the sun...." and unfortunately, the sun is now setting in the US....and whatever predatory measures the US use to hinder the rise of nations all over the world will only be a self-fulfilling prophecy...

[@alanssshh]

well said

[@draker769]

Well, China Huawei patent lithography machine, that is what changing the game. It seems when the US ban China from something they just decided to do it themselves. Talk about what does not kill you make you stronger.

[@willengel2458]

the 7 nm and more advanced chips are mostly used in smartphones. China just needs to focus on 14nm and above in quality, quantity, and price. Intel, TSMC, and Samsung cannot survive on more advanced chips alone.

[@draker769]

@@willengel2458 That is a bad strategy, if you want to win something in the long run, the frontier technology is what China must invest, don;t let short term thinking make you lose the long game

[@draker769]

@@willengel2458 wrong, chip smaller than 14nm can be used in laptop and further AI application

[@donald6688]

I think you need at least one scholar based in Mainland China to be in the panel to have a good picture of the whole situation 😂

[@SW-fy8pq]

The CEO of ASML said that China will catch up with the technology sooner or later. Since China has the largest market and a large number of R&D engineers, my bet is on China, not the warmonger and Lord of destruction United States.

[@Jersey1225]

China has large population, but half of Chinese income is under $160/month said by prime minister of China.

[@Ilovecruise]

@@Jersey1225 well, $160 dollars of Expendable money, in addition that average includes the 3~4 billion people who are children, elderly who are not working.

[@hongluong3427]

The day tsmc moves all of its infrastructure to america is the day it will need to change its name to asmc. Tsmc will go bankrupt and an american company will buy the company for peanuts

[@wingkeongsiew2296]

The semiconductors industry needs a different working culture that is only possible in Asia. Lots of personal comments n sacrifices. The semiconductors supply chain was solidified during the mid 1980s and the United States selfishly tried to break the norm. I am very certain that the one laughing in 5 to 8 years is not the United States. Sorry !

[@limtc1733]

The American labour laws/unions will kill off the productivity of TSMC chip plants in the US. Flushing out tonnes of money from the chip manufacturing giant.

[@SW-fy8pq]

The difference between them CHN: "We want peace and growth" US: "We want wars and lucrative arm sales"

[@michaelwang6125]

LOL t____t So who exactly is flying dozens of warplanes towards Taiwan almost daily, overstepped its wolf warrior policy that even turn EU away, *supported/aided Burma's military regime* coup, ignored UN ruling over Phillipine's rights in SCS, break its promise to UK's 1 country 2 system for 50 years which is even signed into the United Nation, blamed Canada/Italy/US/etc nations for the virus despite being the one that throws a WahWah when Australia pushed for an international investigation. Seriously; its like watching a Wolf that's about to jump on the Bunny and you are blaming the Rabbit for being too delicious without considering the on the ground. XD Yeah; co-existence but guess that's also life. Ps. So what price was paid for the peace and growth -cough- name one country that places an entire community under detention/re-education labor camp in the modern world.

[@TheWinezen]

ANSWER: China. Next question

[@cheeho9698]

USA should take the advice from one of its famous citizens. Elon Musk said " If you spend all your energy trying to hinder your competitor from progressing (instead of improving your self) you have already lost

[@genuinennessbefitting4734]

Before 2004, the United States led the world in semiconductor technology, and foundries had to pay IBM's technology license fees. But in 2004, TSMC took the lead in developing 0.13-micron copper process technology ahead of IBM, ushering in the era of Taiwan's semiconductor technology leading the world. In 2014, IBM withdrew from the foundry business, and TSMC considered buying IBM's fab in New York State. However, even though IBM's technology has lagged behind Taiwan by a decade, the US Department of Defense and IBM, still worried about the already fading American technology influx into Taiwan, rejected the deal. High-tech semiconductor technology is the result of Taiwan's efforts to develop, and now the United States claims to "bring back" semiconductor production to the United States.

[@alanssshh]

robbing indeed

[@paoloorate2265]

Americans with an average IQ of 85 will say China stole their tech again. LOL.

[@themorning5149]

Bring back ? No it is taking is robbing.

[@davidliverman4742]

I refuse to think of it as a war. Passion and technology suffers. Everybody should work together!

[@paoloorate2265]

Americans with an average IQ of 85 will say China stole their tech again. LOL.

[@agusedyanto3324]

the term war came from the US government itself bro, because it's their favorite...lol

[@michaelwang6125]

globalization probably won't end; it may however be globalization 2.0 without Beijing. As if it never enters the WTO, especially after failing to keep most of its promises when becoming a member T___T Beijing is the main benefactor of globalization and it basically went and ended it after Xi/Pudding talk x days before the Ukraine invasion.

[@pahatpahat9566]

With education policy where high school graduates do not have to understand simple STEM subjects, I just wonder how far this forced manufacturing project will go!

[@nickl5658]

Potentially very far. Just import Taiwan, S.Korean or Japanese engineers to do the work. Essentially how all US science has been working since the 1980s.

[@tradestudent2978]

There are more than enough Indians to do the job, and Indians will over take every thing in the US. India provides politicians, engineers, CEOs etc for US.

[@paoloorate2265]

Americans only have an IQ of 85 on average. They cant make quality products anymore so they need the Taiwanese help which are basically also Chinese. LOL

[@pahatpahat9566]

@@paoloorate2265 , To be fair, their average is higher around 92.

[@jetli740]

so usa suppress china chip maker is call fair trading. did i miss something

[@medialcanthus9681]

Yes . We also missed their rules based order, their so called humanity values their high handedness their skewed policies their hypocrisy, their self righteousness.....

[@limtc1733]

The side with the biggest guns is always right. Never change and never will.

[@jetli740]

@@limtc1733 What you said is bully alway win. not always

[@nanbutinanquibotiqui]

It seems that way but their big guns couldn't even defeat those carrying just small guns, like the Taliban in Afghanistan and the Vietcong in Vietnam.

[@jamespat7975]

@@jetli740 Yeah, my product, my design, am I bullying you by refusing to sell it to you? What is the logic ? Fxxktard

[@jgwizo]

"This President must go" is the weirdest statement by a USA President. It's so much self-serving that one would expect USA economy becoming separate to the world. Can such an economy survive?

[@agusedyanto3324]

actually he said that to himself bro...lol

[@genuinennessbefitting4734]

For TSMC's factory built in Arizona, the necessary building materials are manufactured in Taiwan and then shipped to Arizona in thousands of containers for assembly so that consumers will have to bear the high cost. Since then, the production of the Arizona factory has required importing raw materials from Taiwan every day. Therefore, if the production line encounters a problem that the fabs located in Taiwan can solve in an hour, it will take dozens of hours, days, or weeks to solve in Arizona. Also, whenever Taiwan is affected by geopolitical risks, TSMC still has to close its factory in Arizona, so having a factory in a country with no supply chain and no talents does not diversify risks and only increases costs. Therefore, it makes no sense at all.

[@marcos-ll2yr]

that's why US will be far behind

[@genuinennessbefitting4734]

@@marcos-ll2yr The advantage of the United States is not in semiconductor manufacturing. Taiwan has spent decades training many semiconductor engineers. All semiconductor engineers in the world are in Taiwan. Thousands of companies in Taiwan provide services and raw materials to TSMC. The United States does not have such a supply chain. The United States should use its advantages rather than catch up with semiconductor manufacturing technology. The United States should open up other cooperation with Taiwan and use both sides' advantages to maintain the two countries leading position in science and technology.

[@Billck24]

@@genuinennessbefitting4734 US advantage is print infinity money & might collapse soon too. American are too lazy now. No country want to work lazy country.

[@xfactor6099]

@@genuinennessbefitting4734 the USA is a dollar money printing press masquerading as a country.

[@peterphan3524]

No worries, eventually they'll close down due to high cost and low sell. Very small amount of consumer willing to pay for and those are government and our tax dollars.

[@baersworth2010]

The chip ban from the US has just do a great job for China, for decades that is a debate as to whether China should develope its own chip industry or to rely on international trade i.e import chips from the US for civilian usuage. Even when China produce its own chips which has the similiar performance as the US chips, local industry are not willing to switch to using local chips from chips inported, the pro inport chips people were used to be the main stream, but now they all shut up.

[@michaelwang6125]

O___o Russian's PLA: *We don't agree that Beijing produces chips with similar performance* T___T Fail rate went from 0-2.5% to over 30% which is beyond acceptable level during war.

[@baersworth2010]

@@michaelwang6125 I bet you can buy US chips during war time, how loey you are。

[@michaelwang6125]

@@baersworth2010 yeah ~ what's the current unemployment rate in Beijing... with so many international cooperation leaving, despite it once having the global factory title? ~Vietnam/Singapore/India... etc O__o our projected growth in the short term might not be so high but will likely hit over 8% once the factories-etc are established in 2-7 years. I wonder what Beijing actually gain basically forfeiting that role to other southern nations; must be some type of Grand Plan that is beyond anyone who eats not too healthy chip to understand lol

[@baersworth2010]

@@michaelwang6125 what are you talking about ? factory in Beijing ? you must be come from Mars. You need to read more real news not those brainwash trash.

[@teatree6228]

Boeing is also civilian and makes war planes

[@Alex-Rainmaker]

And that's why they lost the China market to Airbus when China inked a $17 billion with them. 🤣

[@willng247]

I cannot stand listening to conversations where the framing of the conversation starts with China as the bogeyman

[@faustinoco3933]

Where will the US chipmakers sell their products?

[@jacku8304]

To Australia, India and U,K.

[@Rashidoniyangi]

Will US also insist that countries should not buy Chinese chips even when they may be better or cheapest than US made chip.

[@faustinoco3933]

@@Rashidoniyangi That's absurd! Chinese chips are not for sale, they need more of them, to include US chips if they could be allowed in China.

[@garrycoleman8537]

@@jacku8304 so we Australia get all the crap American junk, I will buy Huawei!!!!!

[@tonyphu5172]

USA.

[@chrisolga3]

You can slow down a faster runner but if you can run faster, eventually he will pass you. The US can’t keep up with China fast growth and is trying all possible tactics to slow them down, but if we can advance ourselves is inevitable that China will surpass the US.

[@Emphasis213]

10:45 either she is ignorant or a hypocrite. Microsoft, Amazon, Boeing, Motorola, Honeywell, space x, Google, Twitter and all. They are all if not significantly getting their govt supported welfare checks from the govt. Her speak of a separate civilian and military company is utter BS.

[@teatree6228]

The southampton chines girl is from HK from her accent snd is falun gong

[@longcimb]

Among the 3, Shirley is dwell deep into the subject and I agree with her views. And that the technology war has begun in 2017 and it has been very confrontational. Its more economical than security, but looking at how US broaden everything it sees as security, there no point to argue in that. If losing economic dominance is national security, then almost everything including buying a toilet bowl....hmmmm

[@JSharap]

And toilet paper...🤣🤣🤣

[@jamessinga6016]

We should be living in a new technological world in order to move forward future generations but geopolitics is destroy world democracy.

[@nanhinting7447]

Only the US has National Security and others don't and that is the freaking problem. You are very correct that US uses the excuse of National Security to cover their shortfalls which include toilet bowls the next time round. It's getting absurd and ridiculous!

[@nanbutinanquibotiqui]

The US has framed every anti-China move as protecting its "national security". Even a fool knows that this is a lie because not everything has national security implications. The US government is a big joke.

[@baersworth2010]

That is definitely a national securityissue if the US can no longer bully other countries and to exchange everything just by printing paper money without restriction.

[@leecheong4986]

TSMC is not an issue anymore. The dynamics has changed. The Moore’s law has come into play. The recent launch of the 4nm through Mediatek and Qualcomm chips is actually a repackage of the 5nm chip and also the repackage of the 7nm chips. Both TSMC and Samsung currently are not able to stabilise the 3nm technology. China on the other hand has built enough factory to mass produce 14nm by next year and by Bloomberg own reporting China’s SMIC is already producing in small batch and selling 7nm. SMIC 10 years work on the FINFET n+1 and n+2 has produce a 7nm chip that are ‘just as good’ as those from Samsung and TSMC, again according to Bloomberg. China is targeting to mass produce 7nm using the same technology without EUV by 2025. China is also moving towards a federal policy of producing most of its mobile phones including 5G phones, tablets and computers using 7nm. This will create the mass quantity within China required to justify mass production of 7nm chips. This will put China up to 99% self sufficient on the supply of semiconductor chips by 2025. The Americans also help through its bans which has forced Chinese buyers to buy locally produce chips. China is also giving out licenses to any foreign countries who wants to mass produce 14nm to 28nm and more mature chips which are not banned by the Americans, within China for the Chinese market. SMIC has built 3 factories for these and will build more next 3 years. Also if the Japanese are able to come up with the NIL machine and technology next year to produce 5nm chip, ASML may even have to refund SMIC the down payment for the EUV ordered some years back. By the way ASML has continue to send DUV machines to China seeing SMEE of China producing its first 50nm DUV. Apparently the 28nm is next! Meanwhile China has basically buy a whole lot of second hand Japanese DUV machine that can produce up to 14nm chips. The Americans meanwhile are waiting for TSMC factory to come up with a repackage 4nm chip by 2024 in Arizona. They are also waiting for a 3nm chip (possibly repackaged if it ever come true) by 2026. Advance chips demand has fallen off the cliff. Mobile phones, tablets and PCs demand is dropping since 2018. TSMC, AMD, Intel, Micron, Qualcomm are all losing market (they are still making money though) but are reflected in their shares fall. Together they lost usd1.4T recently. Who will know what will happen by 2026? There may even be another president with another administration. Perhaps a depression even. Meanwhile American Congressmen is demanding that China stop building 14nm factories…IN CHINA! It’s already built! Why? Desperation? The Chinese are looking at what is certainty that is already in existence in terms of market size within China plus mature technology and the Americans are looking at projections with yet to be stabilised technology towards a weakening advance chips market and a ban that restrict their sales to China and best of all a 50% hike in operational cost in the TSMC factory in Arizona compare to what it cost outside USA. It will get worse if TSMC is to build a factory for the 3nm with the R&D cost skyrocketing trying to stabilise the 3nm technology for mass production. It’s going to be really ugly cost and competitiveness wise. Who will win? Perhaps another political project from the Americans like ‘build back better’? Go figure.

[@genuinennessbefitting4734]

Chinese cannot make advanced chips; all Chinese chips fab were set up by the Taiwanese.

[@marcos-ll2yr]

China will win US depends alot of China for the most of materials

[@yliang1688]

🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩No one even cares about BBBW any more , indeed. (building back better world ???? Remember ????) 😰😰😰😰😰

[@MRT-co1sd]

US has to come up with a better term for a new policy, may I suggest “Build Faster than China”.

[@lenkiatleong]

All i know is, the world consumers are the greatest losers when China is denied access to chips to make great value consumer goods. Hope to see the US acting in good faith for world consumers.

[@nanhinting7447]

Since when has US care about world consumers? Selling LNG to EU countries at 4 times the price is a good example. The US profit through other's miseries.

[@newworldorder9891]

Tht country misused everything endlessly, nay, new tech or some breakthroughs should replace it.

[@nanbutinanquibotiqui]

The US acting in good faith? This will never happen because it is all about protecting selfish American "national interests".

[@maxdc988]

What does this US 's complaint of "military-civilian fusion" in China really mean? Does the US has a clear segregation of their military and civilian space especially technologies? Has US administration prevented their military from accessing the advanced technologies of their civilian population ? The answer is a definite no. In fact the US military has foremost priority usage of the most advanced and powerful technologies invented in the US and their vassal states such as EU or Japan. The military is there to protect the people and their interest, so it's right that the resources of the people be shared with their own military to make them more formidable, more so when your country is being encircled by hostile aircraft carriers, missiles, bioweapon labs and military bases deployed by the voracious hegemon.

[@richiesd1]

And the Americans used to claim that industrial policy cannot work. The free markets are better and produce superior results.

[@maxadful]

Wrong title, it is US chips bully

[@nanbutinanquibotiqui]

Yes, the US sounds more like a big bully.

[@jackfang2641]

As a chinese. I trust my ppl and my goverment

[@jennychuang808]

Haha! As a Taiwanese, I feel for you 🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼

[@jennychuang808]

@Watcher Haha! Do your research, mate Go and check how many wafers, tsmc produce in total? Hahaha No wonder, your country invested tons of money but produce rubbish

[@jennychuang808]

@Watcher Dear Watcher, Do your research please Check how many wafers are going to produce in the US by tsmc ? Check what tsmc is doing in Taiwan

[@jennychuang808]

@Watcher I feel for people like you You know nothing about this industry but love to express your shallow thoughts

[@lawerencesebastien3335]

@@jennychuang808 china owns Taiwan

[@marethmok5635]

No winner but Both in progress And Chinese technology ll be the Best In the nearest future 🤙💐

[@kz7822]

Each year, there are more than 6 million qualified undergraduates majored in STEAM join the workforce. This will bring tremendous edges for China in R&D coupled with the unparalled capital investement of China which is among the highest rate of GDP. Personally, I am optimistic. Time will tell.

[@Gman979]

Why is it called a war when China didn't choose to have anything to do with it. Lol

[@郭家銘-z4c]

The problem is TSMC control 92% of the advanced chip, that made the us worry

[@jkuang]

China. Because 80% of all chips are used by China. So as long as China can produce chips, which they have been making 28 nm and 14 nm chip in production quantity, China will remain at the "winning side" no matter what. Yes, it is still a challenge for China to produce 7nm chip in production quantity. But let's face it, if China can produce 28 nm chips and 14 nm chips after 5 years, since Trump ban on chips exporting to China, and given the fact that China can produce 7 nm chips in limited quantity, I have no doubt that China will produce 7 nm chips in production quantity in 3 years. TSMC and Samsung will still dominate the extreme high end 5/3/2 nm chips in the next decade. Intell will get hold of some of TSMC talent and manufacturing secrets to produce 7 nm chips. 10 years later, after 2035, the world will move to graphene chips and China is at the same starting point as US and Samsung (which is actually controlled by US investment). I am not sure about Taiwan on its technology research on graphene chips. But given its full commitment to silicone chips, I have a feeling that it will be playing catch up on graphene chip war. It is interesting time. May we continue have competition and push the technology forward.

[@fannyalbi9040]

and china already able to produce dpu

[@newworldorder9891]

Just like 5G, Huawei of China emerged better than others. If it’s man made, then there is a chance tht some thing new will be created by China.

[@miloboy4223]

I did not get what Ms Chu was talking about really

[@skylimit3477]

The best way to defeat China semi industry is to flood their market with low cost chip, including those high tech cell phone chip. After US sanction and restriction to sell chip to China, Chinese companes have enough reason, market and finance to rapidly develope their own chip industry now. Huawei hints that they are making 12nm and 14nm chip this year. China said they can delievery their own DUV machine to make 28nm chip. It can be used to make 14nm chip too. In couple years, China will be able to catch up to 7nm or 5nm chip. As we know most appliance, communication equipment, car, space ship, rocket, weapon, etc don't use high tech chip, China doesn't need to buy any chip from other countries for those. US gov gives a big motivation for China to develop their own high tech chip now. Example is solar panel, China owns more than 90% of world market now. The next one will be car battery. China has a 1.4 billions people market and much more engineers and researchers than any other countries. Many well known Chinese researchers returned from US to China too because US president made their country more racism against Chinese. China registered the most patents in the world last year. Many of the world 500 companies are from China too.

[@mgronich948]

The title is wrong. Both sides will lose in the chip war. The question is which side will lose the most? (and on what time scale). And what does lose mean? After the 1st shot in the chip war in october, Chinese chip firms lost 6B in market cap and US chip firms lost 400B in market cap. But clearly lack of high end chips will slow China's AI and HPC efforts. China has a lot of cloud data centers. But they will not grow year after year. But by losing 50% of the global market revenue US chip firms will have slow down R/D by ~50%. This is huge. The GPU was developed, and was advanced because a few 100 million teenagers wanted to play video games. The size of the market drives innovation. it's ironic that the US a capitalist country using govt subsidies while China a communist country is using the market to drive innovation. In the long run, the market will win. In the short run the US should be hurt less, except that every US chip company is laying off 1000's of workers and the disruption of the shock may bring the damage to the US to closer to the damage to China. The neocons who are running the chip war in the commerce department are looking to damage China and not trying to increase the lead the US has in this area. But maybe they feel no matter what the US govt does, increasing the US innovation is not possible, so let's cut US R/D by a factor of 2 and cripple China in the short term by much more than a factor of 2.

[@nanbutinanquibotiqui]

Like in most fairy tales, the bad guy always end up the ultimate loser.

[@SW-fy8pq]

@@nanbutinanquibotiqui it depends. If the movie is made in the US, US will always claim themselves as the sole winner, American saves the world again.... sigh.

[@nanbutinanquibotiqui]

@@SW-fy8pq Yes, l agree.

[@MrGanbat84]

I know innocent people in the world we are losers. We pay more. If China do chip then we buy cheap price

[@honcheelim1220]

Glad to know you and your wife have recovered from the mild attack of Covid. Wish you and family a happy New Year 2023❤

[@hokiec4974]

Short game US . Long game China. US is all show but no substance… a good starter but a poor finisher！

[@jimmyyoh8144]

Cutting off investment and technology of chip making to China will buy US a maximum of 5 years of time. However, this policy will accelerate chinese investment and technology advancement in making chips as we know how today plus new methodes too. If the US chip making industries can not speed up own advancement, 5 years will be totally wasted.

[@ericyeo805]

The Chinese will have the last laugh at the bullies' eventuality. The Chinese will prevail and overcome the difficulties sooner than expected.

[@jamessinga6016]

Why US experience inferior complex when comes to national security? And why the world becomes more divided into multipola world?

[@RS-uh7rz]

Riley is smiling and comfortable. Shirley is stressed and uncomfortable - consistent with China’s decidedly weaker position.

[@dancerinmaya6813]

also remember the one who laughs last laughs best--it's rather stupid to deduce whether a country's strong or weak from one analyst's composure...by that logic, based on what you said, we can deduce your country/region is rather dim and cheap.

[@yingzhang7637]

A country could built up a spaceship would eventually build its anything for its own use. That includes chips

[@蘇喬瑟夫]

Between US and China, Frito Lay wins the chip war

[@MetaView7]

We are living in a Global Village. **Win-Win Cooperation** is the only way to co-exist on this finite planet.

[@kmich7660]

Elementary, when China stops buying US chips, being dominant is meaningless since marketless.

[@yongzeehow2045]

US should recruit all those furloughed experts if they worries China start recruiting them .

[@dickyutu9940]

US band China from the International Space Station, so how did that work😂. International Space Station is a name that is a joke in itself😅

[@medicuswashington9870]

Meritocracy is the future. The world hegemony wrecking ball is old school.

[@fabianeng8605]

Like in the business industry where companies fight for a slice of the market, these two big countries are fighting also for a slice of the market. The only difference is how big is one's slice.

[@HungNguyen-bf8qs]

Defense spending is always a percentage of national GDP. Any economic gain brings about an edge over national security. The two topics - national security and economics - are just one. If we want to talk about creativity and innovative ability, we should realize that 15% of top students in China correspond to the total student population in the US. In the past, the US has lost the battle of radios, televisions, cameras, robotics, etc against Japan and Korea. Those countries have a much smaller population than China, a giant country that has just awoken and is stretching itself in the New Industrial and Scientific Revolution. In the battle of 5G, the US had resorted to Canada' help in the kidnapping of Meng Wanzhou, the daughter of Huawei's owner. But again the US lost its battle as Saudi Arabia decided recently to sign a development contract with Huawei. "Desperate times call for desperate measures" in the US. It's the end of the American Empire as the sun rises in the East.

[@lientruong2500]

It is interesting to see a Vietnamese praising the Chinese achievement? Anyway, we know they are intelligent and extremely hard working people so success is just a matter of when not if.

[@HungNguyen-bf8qs]

@@lientruong2500 Thank you for your kind remarks.

[@wongpohchan9485]

Do we really need such small chips for cars, missiles, washing machines, even fighter planes? For cell phones, yes, because they are small and need to fit into our pockets.

[@Amidat]

I would expect better from Turkish news. This was highly biased. There was no counter view... This was all from the US point of view - as if the US is doing the right thing. Not good journalism

[@Peaceful688]

Peace and development are really going to be replaced by distrust and decline? Negotiation and competition are going to be replaced by hatred and war?

[@yingzhang7637]

Morris Zhang had never been Taiwan before the age of 54! He came from Ningbo, Mainland China. He was a mainland China Bred. Was this information to you any of importance?! It only tells, please do not think Chip talent belonged to Taiwan only! I was always amazed about talent pool in China! Being a Chinese origin, I have track records of being at Elite Schools in China, West Europe, North Europe as well as in America and Australia. But, when I looked around, looked at my fellow Chinese overseas, as well as those appeared in "the King of Brain" (a TV entertaining program), so many talents in Main land China, year after year, I truly believe, there is nothing that not achievable by Chinese giving good policies, China will raise again in its own way! China does not want to compete with USA. China is just look at itself. USA is a land mark to China, that is all.

[@hansjohanoei5627]

Is it a western model liberal democracy to forbid western allies companies to invest in overseas ?

[@Americademocracy]

God is living in China 2023

[@Utube1024]

To be exact God live in the Temple of Heaven in Beijing.

[@skkhoo62]

Old news. Pls refer South China Morning Post - China's top chip maker SIMC acheives 7-nm tech breakthrough.....

[@devondevon4366]

While the US will spend 54 billion to produce more chips, China recently plans to spend 147 billion due to US sanctions. The US said it would levy fresh sanctions against China if it spends that amount.

[@hioeacin4381]

👎.👎. ,,,,,. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@maxchen7229]

It’s all about money. National security just very convenient excuse for US government to do anything at its own will.

[@abaeem1694]

Keep it up. Truth is truth which cannot be denied.

[@wallstreet497]

If we were in 1950 the winner will be the US but we're now in 2023 a lot has changed from the 50's the time is now ticking in favour of China as the expected next winner 🏆. The US is running out ot time to save whatever can be saved but let's be objective how much can be saved before the game is over?

[@jmg8246]

How much agriculture products we have to ship to China to offset the trade deficit???

[@edwardlee6080]

The problem is now European Union , Japan , Korea， China,Us are all investing hundreds of billions to build massive factories to produce chips but the means does not goes up as well, the world semiconductor market of $600 b is to be shared by three times of suppliers, which means. The chip price will drop by 80% due to fierce competition. , while previously. , the semiconductor market was dominated by US companies only, so 50% of the chip suppliers will disappear in the next two to five years ..

[@rawword]

Those clearly shows the desperation of the US

[@Withnail1969]

It is not true that sophisticated high end chips are used in military technology. Much older designs are used.

[@ntal5859]

All the USA did was to destroy its western supply chains, I couldn't get parts from my western supplies here in Oz but China had more then you could imagine.

[@robvoncken2565]

Also on of the main reasons China wants Taiwan access to the chip industry.

[@pauloarisi1908]

USA and CHINE lost this race to Neaderlands and Taiwan. They produce the best microchips.

[@whitemoon5752]

My money is on US on this war, China cannot compete in Chips

[@paoloorate2265]

Americans only have an IQ of 85 on average. They cant make quality products anymore so they need the Taiwanese help which are basically also Chinese. LOL

[@cathayview]

Time will tell which country wins the chip war.

[@dariosilva4566]

I'm just stunned ,the argument is a no brainer ,the us is the preschool bully .and the world has just learned karate

[@matoke1238]

comply to US chip rules mean supporting US to built mass destruction weapon....why barely western reporter reporting china chip use for hospital equipment and many more positive way to built better living on cheaper prize than japanese and US product ???

[@jacquesnombro5165]

The one who uses the chip most in its industry normally would win. NOW if the very same country starts manufacturing its chips Game over !!!

[@kwesimannabintenya8448]

Whoever rule the chips, will rule AI and will rule the World of tommorow !

[@bhubestakesoponsatien1143]

Nothing new, Tsml also will produce in Tpe, China is testing 3nm chip now

[@ProLim580]

It is not who win or loses. Both sides do had their own agenda.

[@ongchinlam4631]

Intel. Is collapsing

[@hongluong3427]

Good.

[@AlexKai739]

Monique Chu is really talking all nonsense

[@douglaswong8610]

When the number 1 USA is starting a “Chip war” or whatever war, the USA is already lost its position or number 1 status (period) The winner does not have to protect their position, because they are the “Winner”

[@pieterviljoen1620]

Intel slipped up hugely

[@aliyahu8800]

Things were better without them.

[@faivnengher5020]

Chips maker should be easier than go to the space....

[@yingzhang7637]

Laughable! These becomes country security issue?! These policies made mainly by people who do not have STEM training at their university. Usually u do not slow other people down but keep up own edge of competitiveness. Never see such petty mentality when I interacted with US colleagues at Elite Universities. One can only succeed by working on own self.