Whole Foods Witches

[@AnyaEsma]

Love that you mentioned the inherent misogyny in making fun of stereotypically "feminine" things. The whole basic mom in yoga pants joke is so damn run down at this point. I admire those basic witches who don't give a damn about people who make fun of them for being dense, delusional, simple, whatever. And I respect them for doing their thing more than I could ever respect people who crave legitimacy and respect within a community above ALL else, and try to get it by putting others down.

[@SB-yv8jn]

I think your comment is my favorite one here 💖

[@AnyaEsma]

@@SB-yv8jn Thank you, love! :)

[@Walterius19]

Your comment reminds me of the movie, BUT I'M A CHEERLEADER, where a young girl is regarded as a Lesbian because she becomes s vegetarian. Great comment!

[@josephperkins4080]

Not everything in life that is wrong is misogyny.Thats pretty much a catch all word now

[@williamengel8729]

Greetings, everyone! I have a very important question for you. Will you go to shamayim (heavens) when you die? Have you lied, stolen, used Elohiym’s (Almighty’s) name in vain or lusted (which Yahusha [Jesus] said was adultery, Matthew 5:28)? If so, Elohiym sees you as a liar, thief, blasphemer, and adulterer at heart. If you die in your sins, you will end up in a terrible place called Hell. But there’s Good News. Though we broke Elohiym’s Law, Yahusha paid the fine by dying on the stake: “Elohiym so loved the world that He gave His only brought-forth Bēn (Son), that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). Then Yahusha rose from the dead and was seen by hundreds (it’s no fairytale, it’s the truth). He fulfilled all the prophecies of the promised Savior and Messiah. Please, today, repent (turn) from sin and believe the gospel (Good News) and look for a believer and follower of Yahusha to baptize you in the Name of Yahusha ha’Mashiach (Jesus the Messiah) for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Ruach ha’Qodesh (Holy, Set-apart Spirit). For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as YaHUaH our Elohiym shall call (Acts 2:38-39). Pray and read the Scriptures daily and obey it. Do you suffer from pain, sickness or troubles in your family, job or living situation? You can pray to your Father in the shamayim (heavens) and ask Him to help you in the Name of Jesus. You can also get in contact with another believer of Jesus and come in agreement in prayer because Jesus said, “That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in the shamayim. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:19-20)” Jesus is coming back quickly to judge the living and the dead. Will you go to the shamayim (heavens) when you die? Shalom shalom (perfect peace and wholeness) to you all. Please, check out TLRmovie.com for free and encouraging movie documentaries on the modern life of a disciple of Jesus. If you would to prepare for a possible EMP strike, solar storm or lightning strike, then you can protect your electronics with EMP Shield, but most importantly trust in Jesus. www.empshield.com/jesusislord There may be special sale depending on the time of year, but you may use my coupon code for a $50 discount! Coupon code: jesusislord Hallelu Yah!

[@klassickasey]

Thorn is just the chillest witch I've ever encountered on KZbin. As a millennial and a hereditary witch I really appreciate her sentiments in this video. Different is good! Diversity is a sign of health. Innovation keeps a movement alive. You are so right, Thorn, about there being no objective distinction of a "true witch"! Even if I myself am a postmodern chaos magician turned white witch from a maternal line of folk healer witches going back at least five generations, that says nothing about "authenticity" compared to other people's crafts. It sounds like a humble brag or plain baloney to a lot, but I really don't see my heritage as "coven cred" or make me any kind of authority. The women in my family were simply midwives from Ireland that used folk healing alongside a working knowledge of angels, saints, and fairies under a Marian worship of the Queen of Heaven. It's just a nice tradition and connection to the past for a lot hereditaries. I really wasn't even taught much of my family's substantial craft because my grandmother shared very little with my mother so she basically took what she could from my great-grandmother and expanded it with all sorts of eclectic new age concepts. I think if I were to say what defines a "Witch", I would say it is "Independence". There's a freedom of thought and resolute strength in interacting with divinity on one's own terms that keeps me inspired. We have to respect that quality of craft practice because to me that is the core beauty of it. I like sigils and athames, my mom likes crystals and herbology, gramma liked crucifixes and secret group sex rites, great-gramma read tea leaves and was a member of the OES. Even within a singular maternal line, they all had very unique practices and preferences with every generation. What a boring world it would be if paganism and witchcraft was as dogmatic and gatekeeping as traditional Abrahamic faiths.

[@Amina2544]

I suddenly have a strong wish to get to know you and your family. There would be some interesting conversations to have and things to learn there, I believe.

[@orro7625]

You're great. Summary: "Yeah, change is scary...but generally it's always a good idea to try not to be an asshole."

[@kmizo27]

I can totally relate and I'm struggling with the same things. I've been practicing for the same amount of time as you, and the resentment stems from family members that were kind of cruelly teasing me about it (when I first started) and telling other people how I think I'm a witch when I've never advertised to the public (my immediate family and three of my closest friends knew). But now since it's trendy, a particular family member asked me about crystals and sent me a picture of a citrine ring they were charging in the sun. I asked what kind of workings or meditations they were going to do because crystals, to my knowledge and usage, are tools or focal objects. They just lol'd at me and said that all they were going to do is just wear it. I'm all for people learning about wicca, witchcraft, paganism, etc, but it's the superficial dabbling without context that rubs my the wrong way. ESPECIALLY from people who would have condemned such things 5 years ago.

[@DerrieCarpenter]

Oh thank you for this! I left KZbin years ago because I was severely ostracized, stalked, ect for being "fake" because I am a Christopagan witch who loves color and uses color pages in my BOS, I have sadly a black thumb so I DO buy herbs at the grocery store or the metaphysical stores, I have been walking this path for 34 yrs , but because i am all about Color, Love, Empowerment and yes Christianity i am not allowed to be a witch....WRONG. Thank you for this wonderful video

[@LerajeXevious]

It was a conversation with Thorne that relaxed my, then acidic, view of Christianity and Christians that was born of my own experience with some that had close-minded views. You would be very welcome in the circles that Thorn and I share.😁

[@DerrieCarpenter]

@@LerajeXevious Thank You glad to know.

[@cutewitch772]

Oh Derrie I wasn't aware of that! I hope you know you always have a friend in me, and you know I love me some COLOR lol. 💖

[@DerrieCarpenter]

cutewitch772 thank you doll❤️🧡💛💚💙💜

[@drawingKenaz]

I’ll see you in just a few weeks!

[@TheTruthinStory]

Congratulations! As always, an interesting and multisided look at this topic!

[@starsearchreject]

I love this take. It's ok to still be figuring it out. Your honesty is refreshing. I don't follow many witches on social media, but I'm subscribing!

[@cutewitch772]

SO MANY THOUGHTS! As always, love this video. Love these discussions.

[@AvalonCameron]

This certainly is a hot hot hot topic right now. I’ve been thinking long and hard about this very thing myself and I’ve come to the conclusion that the landscape of Witchcraft has once again changed and there is a noticeable age gap that I can actively see and feel. You are right in saying there there are differences in the core practices and respect is something that needs to be demonstrated more actively. Respect for both sides of this perpetual argument. I’ll be 40 this year, and I don’t recognise the Witchcraft of today. It doesn’t mean that’s a bad or a good thing. It is what it is. But at the end of the day, there are distinct differences in practices that deserve to be understood. Let us know when you pen that blog xo 😘

[@Gemmagic84]

Congrats on the wedding news! Great video as always, I agree and YES about the misogyny. I think I’m the same age as you & started practicing around the same time (albeit in regional Queensland, Australia) and I remember how bothered some established practitioners were by what I was doing in the Silver RavenWolf & Fiona Horne days. Much love Thorn 💕

[@rachellopez8357]

The bottom line is that this is about privilege, I think. I imagine that people are angry at young women who are new agey witches because they associate them with having lots of disposable income, among other kinds of privilege. The kinds of people who have historically been drawn to witchcraft have identified as marginalized people, and so It must be really upsetting to suddenly see contemporary witchcraft being conflated with it girl status. I have lots of compassion for that anger, but you raise a really good point about the inherent misogyny in people’s critiques. If I’m going to be honest, I basically am Becky. I have a PhD, so I’m not an idiot. I read voraciously and am a perennial student of witchcraft, so I don’t see my practice as being shallow in the least. Having said that, I’m all about my vagina and crystal gridding and body positivity. I’m not convinced that what I’m doing or how I conceive of magic is being fundamentally different from what you do, but I’d love for you to flesh out that idea in article form. It’s an interesting thing to think about. Are traditional witches angry because they see the content of witchcraft being co-opted by young women who seemingly have it all and now want a piece of witchcraft, too? Or, is it that there is something distinct about how both groups of people practice magick? Maybe it’s both.

[@TheSeaPriestessAnnika]

Congratulations on the wedding! Thank you so much for making this video!

[@LerajeXevious]

OMG Thorn! This is why I love talking with you each summer. Some of the BEST intellectual conversations and ideas/concepts.

[@Draven_Michael]

People who watch what others are doing rather than sit there and examine themselves seem to be the ones that are the quickest to judge. Whole foods Sage is probably a lot fresher than what you are getting at Glitter Raven's occult shop. If you see some one that starts to make your skin itch step back and take a breath. Speak with them, and open a dialogue if you still feel that need to grouse. Use it for good. Learn about them and expand their world a bit. It's NOT our gate to keep, if some one wants in, welcome them. If they don't fit they will end up out of the community anyway.

[@DavinRaincloud]

To me, spirit is the main teacher of the witch. Learning by doing. And Gatekeepers like Tradition leaders who decide to only let those they approve of, to learn their system, can't ultimately stop spirit. Cunning folk back in the day weren't held back by Witchcraft priests because they weren't in the cool squad. I'm working with a lot of these younger/new witches and they feel empowered to do their thing, in their way. No one has to beg for entrance at the heels of the High Priest etc. Who wants that anyways? There is a reason why the old 20th Century ways are dying out. Because the gatekeeping isn't supported by the Gods/spirits.

[@SuperMel81-j5l]

Congratulations! I had a courthouse wedding as well (anniversary was on the 14th)....as a matter of fact, it was in the courthouse vault because we couldn't go outside lol (too cold).

[@phaedrabonewits2367]

I ran a metaphysical bookstore in the '90s, and things really did change then. I remember gesturing to the witchy section and telling them, all but a very few of those books came out since 1990. However, let's not diminish the role of books like Starhawk's Spiral Dance (1979), Drawing Down the Moon (1979) and a whole slew of texts that came out of the feminist spirituality movement. Which were both good and bad; they caught the imagination many people (:::waves:::) while also perpetuating the idea that Witchcraft was "women's religion." (As late as 1990, I was asked if we "allowed men" at our public events. *sigh*) My only real issue with Facebook-group Witches is they do seem to be oblivious to the fact that what we (and you and you and you) do is different, sometimes fundamentally so. All I ask it that they do not think their ideas and experiences are the same as or interchangeable with mine. There's nothing wrong with any of the varieties, they're simply different, that's all.

[@maggiefry7304]

Hi Phaedra! I was getting ready to reply to this because I agree with it and I followed the same path to Paganism, and then I looked to see who posted it, and of course, it was you!

[@cutewitch772]

The second paragraph is here is so much of what I was thinking after hearing Thorn's thoughts on it, took the words right out of my mouth!

[@certs743]

As someone who came into the pagan community and the craft in the late 90s that was very much my experience. My practice was very much solitary by necessity. With the exception of one group (sadly no more) I felt as a cis male at best I could expect to be tolerated in many groups if not outright hostility. I once had someone try and tell me to leave a ritual I was invited to that was hosted by a friend of mine. I often felt like the guy suspected of being undercover cop at a protest. It was crazy times. I learned alot from the one group that would take me in (and I definitely put them through some stuff as a teen too) but even then I often felt my place would always be more a solo affair. I still keep in touch socially with many of the former members but I haven't been to an open circle in years. The lovely "aunts" that took me in (Practical Magic reference) performed my wedding ceremony so things worked out in the long run I guess.

[@aphaiawyn62]

This was a really interesting perspective. I don’t see myself as that much younger than you (maybe 5-10 years age difference?), but I didn’t get into witchcraft until my early twenties after I was married-2011-2012. I’ve read Cunningham and Buckland, some Ravenwolf, but I’ve been solitary for 10 years. I’ve been to one ritual with 2 other people, and I’ve never been to a pagan festival, although I’ve wanted to go to one for years. I feel like I’m in between the 90’s/early 2000’s witchcraft and this new version, and you were able to speak about those two “camps”-as it were-succinctly. Thank you.

[@Walterius19]

A very interesting video. Reminds me of an ongoing argument in thearte over what is "professional". It's more than being paid, it is a mindset, in my humble opinion. Think I will subscribe.

[@AmethystAscensionTarot]

Bravo darling. I think the word is judgement for me. Ultimately it's not my place to judge what someone else's truth and or spirituality is. I also think many times their are trolls that try to keep people separated with tiny differences rather than bringing us together, because that keeps people controllable. Religion, Politics, Race, Educational level, Societal Standing, and Wealth, are just a few things I can think of that separate people. Imagine if we set our differences aside and worked together as a people what we could accomplish. Loved this video and btw..Congratulations to you. Well wishes for you both ♥

[@AlexandraArianna]

Really happy to hear you talk about this--all my feelings reflected in this one. Great video.

[@BrelynnHeart]

Totally a product of Silver Ravenwolf... Really just means we're old! Lol! I noticed that whenever anyone puts a lot of effort into something, learning what they believe is "the correct way. "Earning their stripes" if you will... They tend to get offended when they perceive that someone is claiming it without "earning it". Doesnt make it right but it seems to be a universal reaction. I definitely feel a difference between new age energy and pagan energy

[@butterflymagicwithhottea9291]

I truly appreciate all that you have shared in this video. There is so much to say about the word "witch". Now, this term means so many different things to so many different people that I am apprehensive to use it. I quite like being in the closet, so to speak. There are judgments about calling yourself a witch by those who are not doing witchcraft as much as from within the community.

[@mindysmith9602]

Likely the same feeling witches had when wicca was invented in the 50/60's

[@inkrainsmoke3121]

A thousand thumbs up! I too have been uncomfortable with the misogyny inherent in criticizing so-called "basic" witches. I love this level-headed and interesting take!

[@waterboundwitch3921]

Thank you for saying everything I was thinking.

[@NiamhCreates]

First of all, congratulations! Secondly, I really appreciate this video, and you've worded your opinion on the subject in a way that really reflects my opinion as well. It's interesting watching the current "Witch issues". I've also been practicing for over 20 years (we're probably close in age), but have been very disconnected from my practice for the past 4 or so years. I've still attended a few group rituals (I live in the same town that the Temple of Witchcraft, run by Christopher Penczak, has their sabbat rituals, so I've been to some of those and have befriended people here in the Witch community), but on a personal level, I've been quite detached from my spirituality. I probably stopped buying a lot of Pagan/Witch/Wiccan books a few years before that, so I've really been "out of the loop" for quite some time. That absence really showed how much the community has changed over the years. I started off with Cunningham and RavenWolf (my first book, I believe, was the Witches' Bible by the Farrars) in the late 90s as a teenager. I quickly moved on from RavenWolf, but always felt connected to Cunningham's "brand" of "Wicca" (I put that in quotes because I don't really consider it Wicca per se, but rather a Wicca-esque form of Shamanistic Witchcraft). It may not have been traditional Wicca, but his spiritual outlook was very similar to my own. You're definitely right that much of those books from the late-70s, the 80s, and much of the 90s are outdated now, but I still cherish my Cunningham books. The criticism of the 90s and 2000s of new Witches was the whole "solitary vs. traditional Wicca" and the "fluffy bunnies" term (which I've noticed isn't really used anymore and has been replaced with "Aesthetic Witch" or "Whole Foods Witch", but is basically just the modern "fluffy bunnies"). As far as the old issue of what is or isn't Wicca... I was also torn about that back then. I don't like gatekeeping in general, and I think some people can be too critical about other peoples' practices (or lives in general)... I also believe that spirituality is incredibly personal and we can't know what's in someone's heart or mind. It seems needlessly shitty to lambaste someone just because their interpretation of spirituality within a religion is different than their own. That said, I also think that words have meaning. Yes, the meanings change and evolve over time... and while I don't necessarily think there is something wrong with "shopping-cart-spirituality", we have to consider that at a certain point there needs to be a reconsideration of what we call our practice when the deviation is so far from the original, ya know? I stopped referring to myself as Wiccan probably around 2008 or so. While I do think one CAN be a Modern Wiccan while not being initiated into a lineaged coven, I don't think they are *Traditional* Wiccans, as that in my opinion is an initiatory religion. So, in the beginning, I considered myself a Modern Wiccan (solitary, self-initiated). However, the more I read, the more I talked to others and participated in the community, the more I realized that while some of my practice did have roots in Wicca, my actual practice had deviated too far from that path. So, I stopped calling myself Wiccan. I'm Pagan, Neopagan, or just a Witch... and then I started using the term "Green Witch", which I still use and am mostly comfortable with (though, that too has its issues). Anyway, in the past couple months, I've really felt a call to come back to my Pagan/Witch spirituality that I've felt so separate from for the past 4-5 years; and have been specifically trying to find books that are non-Wiccan forms of Witchcraft. There's still a strong "Wicca presence" to my spirituality, but I want to deep dive into "Traditional Witchcraft" and am specifically trying to stay away from Wicca-centric books (for now). I feel like I'm relearning things all over again! But, in my recent research of non-Wiccan magic(k)al practices (btw, I have conflicting opinions about that "k" lol), I'm finding a lot of the same gatekeeping that I experienced as a young Witch in the 90s and 2000s is also occurring in non-Wiccan Witch communities. Too many judgments, man! I understand wanting to preserve authenticity, I understand wanting historical accuracy, I understand constructive criticism about various aspects of our community... in fact, I find these attitudes helpful to our community as a whole... but then there is criticism that isn't constructive at all, there's overly judgmental attitudes and... gatekeeping. I feel like "Neopagan" has basically become a "bad word" and I don't believe that's fair. There's an attitude of "that's not authentic" and making up rules that MAY have had a place in history, but that doesn't necessarily mean this is "more correct" than that, ya know? Plus... maybe this is my ISTP nature here... but in general, I detest rules, lol. Probably why I stopped aligning myself with a specific religion (Wicca)! I could say a lot more, but I've already typed out a book here, and I doubt very many people will read this... so yeah. Great video... and congratulations again!

[@darklyresplendentone]

Witchcraft is not exclusive to any one person, group, tradition, bloodline, ethnicity, geographic locale, etc... The moment you start judging or criticizing another individual for how they choose to practice or express their craft... I would encourage you to return to your shadow work, and take a gooood long look at your own insecurities as a human being. So WHAT if Becky has her own Whole Foods Style??? Do not judge! If you are so confident in your own mystical traditions... then stick to your own and mind your own business. Honestly, your craft is not any more legit than anyone else's -- because the human experience is UNIQUE. Just because you read certain books or adhere to certain practices doesn't make you any BETTER or WORSE. 💯💯💯 All of us need to stop judging. Period.

[@rsnsol2490]

Great view point and topic. Maybe starting a bookclub for those interested would be a great way of exposing some of the older books and get some new perspective in the mix as well. Perhaps everyone could learn to understand multiple points of view.

[@megrenee2374]

Incredibly well said. ❤️

[@shelleyo6022]

Thank you for speaking on this topic so openly and sharing your experience. Very well put. As communities we need to be supported of your next generation. Things change and evolve, do we want to be the that person saying “well back in my day...” We are never in the same time period as ancestors. Congratulations on your wedding

[@WiccanMohan]

Congrats my friend and many blessings to you.... I agree with you instead making fun of them, we need to help them not criticize them... We’re all witches here and every single one of us practice differently, and in my opinion it doesn’t matter where you buy your stuff as long as you buy them that’s all that counts... Blessed be...)0(

[@christiebellaluna6]

I love your brain!!!

[@kathleenmay5580]

Thorn, you just put it in perspective. Thank you!

[@SB-yv8jn]

Congratulations and yay for a court house wedding! And thank you for this! I sort of got into it with someone over that stupid meme a few days ago. It just truly comes off as shitty and elitist. I have felt a little bit of that myself, but I have also been the newbie too, who was extremely intimidated. I think you really nailed this issue for me. I appreciate you opening the conversation.

[@seariakett4209]

💜 *CONGRATULATIONS!*

[@RavenSong]

Well said! Thank you!

[@mellonlord4616]

I'm rabidly solitary. But I grew up in a cult so that's why. I guess I've grown used to being on the outside and groups scare me. Proud apostate.

[@jscorpio1987]

I know how you feel. I grew up in the JW cult. I’d much rather practice completely on my own than be part of any group after that mentally scarring experience. I refuse to let anybody tell me what I can and can’t do, or what I can and can’t believe or question.

[@WispsandWhimsy]

Congratulations! And thanks for this topic.

[@clangibson7039]

Congratulations on getting married! I eclectic, solitary and have been practicing 4 years, reading what whatever I can get my hands on that calls to me. Mostly New books, 90’s books, etc. I have seen the millions of KZbins on books for newbies. And have a “want to read” list a mile long. I am in book clubs (thought they tend to be newer books as to be accessible by all). But what you said made me think I would Love to see some #classicwitchybooks videos by experienced witches. What are your favorite “classic” books. It is easy to find the 101 books, the newbie books, but what are the “classic” books that go back prior to the 90’s? Just an idea...

[@akashicsong9904]

Congrats on your wedding sister 💕 I always enjoy your perspective and look forward to your insights. All great points... Every religion has some made up stuff in it and at least these new witches are being inspired by something. Perhaps they will dive deeper as they find out how much more there is to the craft. Ashe and blessings dear ✨

[@IsaoftheMoon1]

This is a wonderful video. I agree with you things change and things evolve. Sometimes it is hard for us to see it when we are on the inside. That change is scary, it is different from what we know what is familiar. When I came to Wicca I was 20 yrs old in the late 90s. The first book I read was To Ride a Silver Broomstick. I then read Cunningham's Solitary Wicca, Buckland's Complete Book of Witchcraft, A Witches' Bible by Janet and Stewart Farrar. I also read Vivianne Crowley, Gerina Dunwich and Laurie Cabot early on. My beliefs were firmly rooted in their works. Now even my beliefs have shifted some. I think that it is important for us not judge others practice. Ultimately we all came to Wicca and/Paganism for a reason and we should be left to explore this in a way that resonates with us.

[@wendykleeb2071]

Becoming a witch is a process without a clear line where one day you suddenly become a witch. Also, not all witches are Wiccan. Not better or worse, just different.

[@lynwendavies5933]

Congratulations on your wedding. Blessed be Lynwen

[@lesafowers8142]

What makes a person a Christian? What makes a person a Witch? I have managed to save my very life because of my craft. I was able to heal myself with very little help from modern medicine. It was still a part of it but the most of my work was mine. I feel like a true witch an am a beginner. I do hope to find a coven and do more with this incredible work. So witch on.

[@sallyharford603]

Thank you Thorn for this video. Yes, there are different levels of serious intent each individual witch has towards the craft; and, some are just exploring this area, to discover if it really is for them. Remember, we are now living in a post post-modern age, so information is freely available to all; and unfortunately, it is not all good. There has to be a 'starting point' for everyone who is curious. So, maybe some of those 'aesthetic witches' who enjoy goth paraphernalia, read supernatural tales, watch horror movies; and occasionally dabble in simple spellcraft; may want to take witchcraft much further. It has to start somewhere. Blessed be!

[@christinedunn5709]

There can be lineage within families, witchcraft traditions passed from grandmother to mother to daughter but not lineage blanket style from a particular tradition.

[@aroseinwinter7719]

Congratulations, i hope your husband loves you as much as we do😍😘 xxx have a great weekend🌺

[@drawingKenaz]

A rose in Winter 💙💙💙

[@ultravioletpisces3666]

I've actually been thinking about this for a while. It may be that rather than just saying "snob! Gatekeeper!" Etc, that there may be some reasons for these criticism. I'm gonna admit I buy my supplies from wherever and use found materials. Even so their may be something valid in the criticisms against "whole foods witches." If we are dealing with energies yet we buy things from stores that brings things in on trucks, we really arent connecting with or even aware of the energies attached to it. Like when they talk about sage being endangered or whatever, yet you see it all over the grocery store. So we blindly buy it and cause harm because we arent aware of what is going on. If we are connected to the earth and our community and we are growing our own sage or finding it in the wild and paying attention to how everything is connected, we are going to be a lot more in touch with those energies we want to manipulate. And while I may be Becky shopping at whole foods for my herbs, rather than being insulted and defensive, I could allow myself to be enlightened on how to do better.i just think maybe we could all step back and examine if the criticisms are valid. This is how we all learn.

[@drawingKenaz]

I think that’s a really great perspective! There’s definitely a line to walk between gatekeeping and fair critique.

[@maggiefry7304]

As Phaedra said, I also started out reading mainly women's spirituality books and developed my witchcraft from there. I would remind people that those of us in outer Trumpistan don't have access to many of the same resources as urbanites. Hel, we don't even have Whole Foods! Perhaps there isn't a coven available to join. Many groups are very closed and in this area very much still in the broom closet. I suppose people could join something online, but for me, witchcraft is something I live, and cyber covens, if there are such things, don't sound very satisfying to me. I joined ADF several years ago and, while I enjoy getting together with other Pagans for regular rites, I will always consider myself a solitary witch at heart. I am vehemently opposed to finger-pointing and I totally agree with this video.

[@cutewitch772]

I live within an hour of a Whole Foods, but we can't afford to shop there, which is why a lot of people call it Whole Paycheck lol. Whole Foods is definitely a very specific image used in these memes. It tells quite a story about access, both geographically and financially. I wonder if the meme's point is more about that than getting herbs from grocery stores, because I know a TON of people have been using store bought herbs in their practice all this time and no one's really had an issue with it until now, other than talking about trying to get organic options, or fresh vs frozen! 🙂 Also to your point about availability of covens and other groups, I have a question, if you have the time or inclination to weigh in! In my area (northeast Ohio) certainly many of us were first solitary out of necessity, due to lack of groups that made themselves known publicly, or being too young at the time to seek any out, etc. But what I'm experiencing now in my late 20s is that all the other people my age and older who were solitary out of necessity/ lack of a group option, now that we have the ability to get together even casually, not necessarily "forming a coven" or formal working group, those people still do not want to work with other people in a group. So where it was once because we didn't have the option of knowing other people in our area who practiced, now we do, and we could get together if we wanted to, but many people don't want to. Some have expressed ideas about "what covens are like" that make them never want to be in one, and they're usually just the horror stories about badly run groups with arrogant leaders. It's like people don't think working in groups is ever able to be positive. Have you noticed any of that in your area, or what are your thoughts on it?

[@maggiefry7304]

@@cutewitch772 I think there are a couple of things going on here. One is what you describe. People have heard the horror stories, and they are afraid to try it. I also think that people are reluctant to make face to face contact. I am older, but my daughters range from 18 to 30 and they are not joiners. I also teach at the college level and I hear my students express reluctance to join groups. Are there any metaphysical shops in your area? That is usually a good place to find public rituals and opportunities.

[@CognitionSpeaks1]

This is all fascinating stuff to me as well as frustrating. I feel as though certain people that care as much about who is and isn’t are those that want to believe their practice is special and just for them and nobody else can have that same relationship they have with their practice. That’s kind of how I perceive snarky, unwelcoming people. Isn’t it supposed to just feel right to you and only you and who cares what others do? All this criticizing instead of constructive guidance puts a bad taste out there in the world and we honestly have enough of that without someone telling you you’re doing your personal belief system wrong. Sure there are probably better ways to go about doing things but that’s the whole process of learning and figuring stuff out. I heard ya on the jerk comment for sure. But aside from that, congratulations on your marriage! Well wishes for you guys. 🙂

[@afeeser]

It is sometimes hard for me to see what other (usually newer) witches say about our religion. When they get parts of it "wrong" (in my opinion/experience), I vacillate between wanting to help them by correcting them (again, my opinion of what is correct) and trying to stay out of it and "let them be". I think it's great that there is so much information available now. I just question the way it is disseminated through social media, with no understanding of what is authentic. (I don't know if I'm expressing myself well here. I just want to say that something in my aches when I see some of the misinformation.)

[@cutewitch772]

I think I know how you're feeling with this! This resonates for me. I know for me I don't "correct" things that I know are just personal preference differences that always vary between paths. If I see someone trying to impress a personal preference on others as "the one right way", I may simply let them know that it's personal preference and not everyone does that particular thing the same way. (Edited to add: Many people did that for me in my early years online, simply politely let me know that what I thought was universal was not, and that other people do it differently in other paths. I'm grateful people shared that kind of knowledge with me, and in a nice way, so I try to do the same where I can.) When I see someone sharing things that are actually, factually incorrect, I usually say so, saying it's a common misunderstanding and you can learn more about it [here] if I know a good source for it, etc. There's definitely a difference between personal differences in practice and just perpetuating incorrect information as "fact". That's what tends to be difficult for me, seeing all the things that could be learned with a basic Google search that people haven't bothered to check up on. But also when I try to let someone know they're sharing something as fact that isn't fact, etc. and they get angry at me for trying to help, thinking I'm just being mean. That's difficult. I've had people be assholes to me about stuff, and I've had people politely help me out. I do the latter, but there are some cases in which anyone telling you you got something wrong is seen as an attack, and that's unfortunate for those of us who really do just want to help people learn from our own experiences, passing on lessons we already learned. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️ All we can do is try, but I definitely feel you on this!

[@Tiptoefoot]

1000% agree with this I grew up in a generation where I was told anything outside of ravenwolf and Cunningham wasn't valuable. I've learned a lot from modern authors but really love 80's and 90'a authors.

[@shaktiveda7041]

Very intelligent young lady here, we are not all the same and we do not all fall into a category...a witch is a witch is a witch!

[@andrastetriformis6241]

Bright blessings on your marriage! Great discussion. ☆

[@minaharker6641]

Can you do a review of the Harmony nice book? Please 💖

[@TheSeaPriestessAnnika]

It's not gonna be good haha

[@earthbruja5268]

It's just basic. Get Scott cunningham instead.

[@j.l3103]

I just read it. It's not that informational if you have already researched sabbaths, different paths, divination etc. and it doesn't really go in depth on anything . However I did enjoy it and inspired me to be more dedicated into practicing my craft. I also found the Herbs and plants section useful, aswell as the suggestions on activities for the sabbaths and esbaths. I do recommend it

[@abiainley9137]

I generally avoid books on Wicca because I'm not Wiccan and often books on Wicca grate on me, however I picked up her book after hearing positive things about it and recently becoming a fan on hers (she's become a lot more authentic recently, and I love that she's showing her aside from her Wicca practice). The book gave me warm, cozy feelings like no other. It was a beginner book with no new facts for someone who's already well-acquainted with Wicca but what she does do is create a very positive and modern version of Wicca. She focuses on the well-being of the practitioner and you can tell she's put so much into making it something that will inspire new witches and Wiccans and set them on a respectable and magickal path. Nothing objectively new if you're an experienced Wiccan but ABSOLUTELY a must-read to connect you to a young and modern Wicca for young and modern practitioners

[@drawingKenaz]

I just posted a review on Instagram! @thornthewitch

[@lex6819]

I have bought crystals and such from my local grocery coop (not Whole Foods) but in my defense, the town I live in has no metaphysical store, and I don't want to buy everything from Amazon. I think it's important to buy local when possible.

[@ChriseldaPhoenix]

This meme must have been created by a powerful witch- it provoked quite the conversation. 😊

[@abiainley9137]

Have you been learning about/practising aspects of witchcraft almost every day for the last few months? Yes? Then you're a witch. I hate gatekeeping. If someone practices regularly, they're a witch. If they practice non-regularly, maybe every few months, I might be hesitant to call them a witch myself but I would never shit on them for calling themselves a witch. The only problem I have is if someone is lying to themselves and others about how seriously they take their practice because they want to be "seen" as a witch, which is actually a problem derived from the gatekeeping rather than those people themselves. Witchcraft is about what YOU believe about yourself, not what others believe about you. Practice what makes you feel good and don't feel like you have to live up to some "standard".

[@beetastik8219]

Yeah. I feel like it's always a contest to out witch or out pagan others. Crazy

[@seariakett4209]

I recently had a "gentleman" *"Mansplain"* to me how to use an occupied public bathroom. I thought ... "The misogyny is strong with this one." 💜

[@ChriseldaPhoenix]

Hi Thorn... thanks for this video. You’re the only person so far who hasn’t completely trashed this entire concept of gatekeeping and I can see how you’re struggling with it out loud and appreciate your vulnerability and authenticity. I just finished watching your other video about the four things you would change about the community if you could and with all respect, it seems that you were doing a little bit of gatekeeping yourself. One of the things I got from the Becky Whole Foods meme is directly connected to the very valid points you made in that video. Quality over quantity. The fact that it’s trending and that everyone thinks they’re the “chosen one” now is incredibly problematic. There has to be a way to separate the wheat from the chaff. If we don’t, the craft is watered down and colonized with people who don’t know themselves let alone know what’s sacred. To me Becky is the one who will recommend those bad books over and over again if it gets her likes on social media. We should be protective about that. According to your other video, it seems that you agree. We must be careful not to allow “faith” into the ancient religion of understanding and worshiping nature. False morality has no place in witchcraft. That meme was shared many times by many people. Maybe they feel tired of it, too. Does that make them morally inferior? Gatekeepers or protectors of what is sacred? I think truth is on a spectrum and truth varies depending on race, sex, class and or nationality. Everyone’s experience is unique, yes. But Becky calling herself a witch after buying a bundle of sage at Whole Foods does not give respect to the sacred. She might be starting her path .. but she is not a witch. Again, all due respect as you are earnestly speaking from your heart and I discern no real ego here. Thank you again for having the courage to share.

[@drawingKenaz]

Chriselda Pacheco - The Anti-Guru This is all fair! Thank you for your thoughts!

[@gastronomist]

Chriselda - This meme is new to me. I'm curious how one arrives at the conclusion that Becky is new to the craft, that she recommends bad books and that she is primarily concerned with her likes on social media.

[@kaesmithmusic]

I personally think this is a universal question. Is someone just starting to play an instrument a 'musician'? Or do we reserve that term for someone who has been playing for a certain amount of time and/or making their living from it? Labels are so tricky - they can help us feel like we belong to a community (which can be so wonderful) but they can also be a huge source of 'us' vs. 'them'. As long as Becky at Whole Foods isn't harming, shaming, bullying anyone and especially if her intentions and interest are real for her and it brings her joy to use the sage and call herself whatever she calls herself, I say that's wonderful and good for her for following her bliss. Everything in the universe is always moving and changing.

[@drawingKenaz]

Karen Smith That’s a great connection and one I personally relate to. I remember being a young guitarist and really struggling with the label of “musician.” Had I earned it? What would others think? I’ve watched friends struggle similarly with “writer,” “artist,” “mother,” “warrior,” “athlete,” and so many more.

[@gracemcclellan5310]

What is "real" and "genuine" is always an interesting question. I do my best to be authentic... and what others do is their own business.. if they think spendind $20 on a smudge stick makes it "a good deal" great.. personally i prefer to grow my own. And.. in my opinion i really dont go around tellin folks about my spiritual practices.. its kinda like sex.. i really dont go around casually talking about that either.. lol

[@TheStitchinWitch]

Oh I want to know your thoughts on the Harmony Nice book sooooooooooo badly!!!!

[@tammynchuck]

Hi Thorne, you commented on older books we are missing out on. What would you suggest as a reading list.

[@raspreier]

Congrats!!!

[@SimpleMandy]

A bit late to the party with this but thank you! When I began in the late 90s, I remember going into an AOL chatroom and being told because I was not hereditary I was not a witch. Part of that is why I stopped practicing in my late teens. Fast forward to my 30s, being drawn back into Paganism and Witchcraft, I realized we're making most of it up and it's okay. There is not distinct definition of a witch, so why try to fit into a mold that doesn't quite exist. Just be respectful of others and live and let live.

[@drawingKenaz]

I had similar experiences! Lots of insecure people just trying to make themselves feel important by making newcomers feel less than. 🙃

[@spiral_heart8239]

Interesting watching as someone who is just getting into the craft, but a bit older than the witches that people seem to be making fun of at the moment. I'm really still just trying to figure out what works for me. I'm always very curious when you talk about the accurate history of the craft. Are there books that you would recommend on this topic. I'm reading Drawing down the moon which seems to have some corrective information, but it doesn't seem like the whole story. Academic book recommendations are fine. I almost did a PhD so I don't mind reading things that are challenging.

[@SimplyAWitch9]

Ronald buttons Books are fabulous for accurate history. I'd also recommend Philip hessleton

[@drawingKenaz]

@@SimplyAWitch9 Seconding Hutton for sure, Heselton with a dash of salt, as his storyteller's impulses sometimes take things a little too far. But he's still one of the best, for sure!

[@magicmaidhc]

Congrats! Shout-out to 90s Wiccans \m/

[@polishfolkwitch]

Damn well said!

[@aranyanifox4375]

...you practice something in one way for a long time, and suddenly people come who are doing it entirely differently... This is what crusades, excommunications and schisms were all about, throughout the ages. Therefore, tolerance. Tolerance and respect for others, while I practice my own thing. And maybe a bit of curiosity, what exactly those others are doing?

[@marigoldwitch]

I made a post about this very topic on Tumblr [I know, hold back the Tumblr jokes lol] not too long ago. The way I see it, it's none of my business how someone else chooses to practice witchcraft or how they choose to share their practice with the world. In my opinion this new shaming of "aesthetic witchcraft" seems to be coming from those who started practicing before the age of social media. If you look at any of my photos from when I first begin practicing back in 2001 (and I got 2 shoe boxes full lol), you'd see a lot of pretty photos too. I wasn't taking photos or commemorating the messy parts of it. And I'm guessing neither is this new generation of witches. Instagram isn't meant to be a representation of someone's entire practice. It's a social media site. Everything is "aesthetic" that's kinda the point of it lol.

[@Pdkweathers]

I spent most of my life in the evangelical church. I often remarked that I was glad I became a christian before Bed I met any christians. One day I read the bible and paid attention. Then I did an in depth study of women in the bible. I came to the conclusion that if the bible is 100 percent true then the Christian god is a monster and he hates women. There is no flexibility in their beliefs. So I left. I began exploring the pagan community. I came upon a forum that was attacking some girl because, OMG, she didn’t have to proper wand😱 they then proceeded to argue what a proper wand was. Excuse me all that crap is what I left and want no part of. I have come to the conclusion Organized Religion, Christian, Pagan, Judaism, Muslim, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster is and has the potential for so much prejudice that none of it is worth the effort. I am sick of it all. I appreciate everything you talked about. Thank you for being brave enough to speak out.

[@shanehiggs1779]

Wise words. It would be most helpful if people turned their critical thoughts inward to examine and improve their own Craft rather than leaning on the crutch of disparaging that of others. It doesn't even occur to me to apply an assessment to how other witches practice or demonstrate their Craft, because I have my own learning to do - and one should never stop learning.

[@jillgarittagoatgirl-expose2759]

I'm so glad I'm a Satanic witch!... We really don't have these types of "Label" issues..Lol😆...So ridiculous..🙄....Who cares where you buy your supplies from??🤷‍♀️...Shit!!!....I'll buy my supplies wherever the supplies are high quality and cheap!... I respect all forms of paganism... This discussion is hilarious!😝

[@afeeser]

Congratulations!

[@LailokenScathach]

Congratz on your wedding.

[@LukaD90]

Yesssssssssssss preach! 💜🙏

[@lookitskatiex]

What other older books do you recommend. I’ve already read the main Raymond Buckland one and both Cunningham Solitary Practitioner books.

[@viciouslady1340]

Doreen Valiente ,Patricia Crowther , Vivienne Crowley Paul Huson,Gerald Gardner are a must.

[@systris]

Actually since doreen valiente has gone Christian and denounced her former work... not her

[@viciouslady1340]

@@systris you have her confused with Doreen Virtue ,Valiente was Gardeners HP and an author Virtue was a new age writer and card designer.

[@systris]

@@viciouslady1340 oh my bad.... carry on then!

[@gastronomist]

I can’t imagine that the issue is really about where ‘Becky’ buys her sage or what her hair is like. It’s about authenticity, of course, but has anyone articulated exactly what it is about ‘Becky' that bothers them? And congratulations on the wedding. If only it were scientific.

[@georginataylor3802]

I agree that no one can truly tell you whether or not, whichever witchy or religious path that practices witchcraft, is valid. The source you use to get your tools and supplies really should only matter to the practitioner and should be important not because of where it comes from but how good the quality is and whether it's worth your money. That said, I cannot agree that generational practices do not exist or can't be found. Magickal practices go back generations in my family. Some choose different paths and some traditions and remedies are passed down regardless of the specific path we choose. At least in my family, it is so and I know others whose practices go back as far as 10 generations. I am of Mexican heritage with American Native, East African, and European descent...perhaps that makes a difference. There is a history of Palo Santos, Santeros, Curanderos, Chamanes (Shamans), and Pagan Catholics (some converted to a strictly Catholic faith). In Palo Santo and Santeros Covens only recognize those initiated, but there are those who practice solitary and self-initiated, they are not always recognized. It is unfortunate.

[@derekknox9033]

I agree with what you say . But I also have the opinion that we magik within us and by exclude people we are hurting them . We all have different ways of doing our own path of magik.

[@miatimberlake2306]

I think this is also a topic that has to do with access to resources. #mehoccultstuff4normies kind of attitude vs the economic factors of product distribution & convenience acquisition. Does herbs from a witch market make the magic more ; or can a food market have herbal products.? If the community wants to address the commodifacation of spirituality, then is retail gatekeeping a viable tactic? Are the noobs going to get rekt & told to get good, or have a multi generational /apprenticeship approach to incorporating aspects of the craft. Cynical memes are often toxic, despite their humor.

[@miatimberlake2306]

also since I can't seem to find you in meatspace, you're invited to my wedding the end of July if you want to have a day in the mountains near Asheville.

[@TheWitchofWhiteTailHollow]

Congratulations

[@tubifexgod]

Hi congrats on your wedding! I think that witchcraft traditions vary from culture to culture and even within cultures. So is a Peruvian witch any less than a Romanian witch? A witch is a witch and the proof is in the pudding. Also, there was an amazing discovery of a centuries old tradition of witchcraft being practiced in Cornwall England. So there may have been strands of the Craft that survived. i.e.: archive.archaeology.org/0811/etc/witches.html

[@Tina_K]

I personally don't see anything wrong with people saying wicca or witchcraft or paganism is a woman's religion, they aren't wrong per se. It shouldn't matter what others think or believe. If it works it works. The proof is in the pudding. We tend to overthink things in the pagan/wicca/witchcraft community ; which kinda defeats the purpose of it because it reverts it back to dogma not unlike the clergy. I think it's something we should avoid becoming ; just another dogma, just another stringent set of rules to follow.

[@shainablinn9776]

To me, it just comes down to practicing what you are comfortable with and there is NO shame in that! So what if Becky wants to light a white candle with an incantation or place a Crystal next to her bed and call it witch craft. I think what we easily forget, in another time that 100% would have been qualified as witchcraft by someone else and she may have been taken to court over it. Encourage, learn and be kind :)

[@drawingKenaz]

I think that’s a great perspective!

[@sherribugd6130]

Like there aren't more important things to worry about in the world than judging another person for their spirituality....

[@dustinking2965]

Congrats on the wedding! At what point do you consider yourself to have become a witch?

[@darkmoonfever1070]

It does not matter how you or anybody else practices. It does not matter which books you read and get ideas from. If you do magick and get results from your work, then you are a witch. That isn't complicated at all.

[@SquierStrat72]

Trying to gatekeep the entire community is rather silly and even arrogant. At this point, it's become too big and too diverse for that. And it can make the community seem very unwelcoming, if not outrightly hostile, at times. That helps no one. Plus, as you said, no one owns the words themselves. So who has the right?? However, I have no problems with members of a specific tradition or path gatekeeping and challenging others who are making false claims about being part of that particular way. That's exactly why I always referred to myself as Gardnerian based or inspired, since I drew heavily on Gardnerian, but was a solitary who was never initiated into it. I never wanted to make false claims or disrespect true Gardnerians. And, had I done so, as far as I am concerned, they would have been in the right to challenge me.

[@CherryBerry48]

right right just like people say im not a real witch bcuz my ancestors were not true witches, i didnt come from the bell witch, and all that bs! in my own theory people who have practiced witchcraft or noobies, can be in fact a witch on their own path

[@drawingKenaz]

I come from a long line of Irish Catholic laborers and white collar office workers, so no worries! There’s no witchcraft as far as the eye can see. Thank you for all your comments!

[@seanr699]

i feel like you look like a mix between drew barrymore and tara from buffy!

[@Heatherrenee424]

Personally i don’t think it should matter what anyone calls themselves, witch or not. I’ve been told I’m not a real witch because i don’t belong to a coven 🙄... as long as we are all working to be the best versions of ourselves i don’t think it should matter. In other words... you remind me of the beautiful Drew Barrymore. 💜👌🏽

[@miatimberlake2306]

Congratulations you

[@rosepearsun]

For me it comes down to woman empowering woman. ♥️

[@drawingKenaz]

I agree-I think some of the criticism is rooted in misogyny

[@fairday8587]

You know... it kind of reminds me of the last half century or more of popular music. So, you've got the 1950's... an era ruled by men with PTSD after World War II. In a nation of long hairs, suddenly, everyone has to have military style haircuts. Though we've seldom been united before, suddenly everyone who isn't on the same page is dangerous and every thing is locked down tight... and their children suddenly find Rock & Roll... (A term that at the time was slang for sex... :::gasp::: all those teenagers singing about sex and dancing sensuously, it's the end of the world). By the end of the decade, what had been a rebellion against the established order became, corporate. The big record companies realized that rebellion sells. So they toned the music down enough to cheer up the establishment... polished up some corporate made pop stars and made enough money via record sales that they found themselves with some real power in society. But of course the 60's was just around the corner and there were bigger rebellions to come in which a new wave of rebel music would lead the way.... and there have been other waves of corporate music and rebel music ever since. That all brings me to a video of Benebel Wen's... I'd love to link it here but just don't have the time to sort through all her videos for it.. but the short of it was... she's looking to understand what the word "witch" means and while looking at it's equivalents in other languages she points out that until recently in history, no one called themselves a witch... it was a term other people used to cast out, marginalize and exclude people from society who didn't fit.. didn't follow the rules or just weren't liked.... people who chose to or were forced to, go their own way. This resonates with me as many of the magical people I know are or were outcasts and... many react to the sense of helplessness caused by being different, off center, "not normal"... by seeking comfort (a spirituality that tells they're okay, it's the rest of the world that's fucked up) or power (to overcome helplessness). I don't think that's bad.. Our culture gets more inhospitable to the individual on a daily basis even as "the age of Aquarius" calls us to be more individual. At the same time... our culture is making real progress and change is occurring... still.. people on every side of the political spectrum think it's not fast enough and not the way they want it to be so there is rebellion everywhere. It's only logical that there would be more people who seek out witchood and witchcraft to deal with not being in the center in a world where the center sucks... if there even still is one with everyone thinking of themselves as outcast. Of course there's money to be made off of all these eccentrics (or is it ex-centrics)... So there is a corporatization going on. Thus "Whole Foods" In your title. But as with music, there will be another wave. In the meantime... I can't help but sit back and enjoy being amused at all the people arguing about whether people are being different correctly... and what is acceptable out on the fringe... and about how much of it is just your completely normal average everyday generation gap with corporate interference. Quick amendment... I do understand the seriousness for some people of their traditions seeming to be undermined by a wave of refuges from the center to the fringes who want to use their terminology but that happens all the time too right..? How pissed off do we think that Episcopalians and Presbyterians get every time they see an Evangelical Southern Baptist on TV shouting the word "Christian" in a way that is completely opposed to what they believe? But... magical people in lineages and traditions have worked secretly for a very long time and... probably... their best work has always been done invisibly. They will just continue to do that... and... some of these new ex-centrics will turn out to have talent and aptitude to do things the old way.

[@SprocketWatchclock]

These are all just the growing pangs as we move into the dominant of witchcraft. At the end of the day we should be celebrating anyone who discards the old cloak of Abrahamic religion in favor of something much more positive and healthy, even if they only take on the basic trappings of such things and don't dive into the more esoteric aspects. Not everyone is a water sign; not everyone is going to dedicate their lives to their religion and that's fine. That's not what they've incarnated to do in this life and we shouldn't disparage them for that. We should be willing to recognize that the universe is more diverse than that and it's wonderful because that's the case, not in spite of it. Us vs them dichotomies are only ever toxic. But hey I'm not even Wiccan anymore, I'm a Sumerian Reconstructionist so what do I know?

[@chrisorapello]

Like #101! 😆