Why "Aero-Blocking" Has Gotten Worse | Teams Split on NASCAR Negotiations

Let's talk about why aero-blocking has become more prevalent in recent seasons, and how NASCAR might be able to address it.
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[@hollygolden9673]

You are exactly right about Nascar mandating all cars be equal and then realizing you need superstars.

[@jbonn5365]

I've never understood why the SMT data was so easily accessible. I agree 100%, teams shouldn't have access to it.

[@merica.racing]

Absolutely. Does not make sense that everybody can see everyone else's data. Hope the tires make a difference.

[@julzlbc]

every team having access to everybody's real time data is so goddamn stupid. That's not what NASCAR was or should be about.

[@jeremyharper3462]

I don't really care about this that much, but I do agree with you. It is kind of dumb. Drivers should only have access to their team's data.

[@llen609]

It’s boring. Stopped watching only watch highlights now. Everybody is trying too hard to make it interesting. Mike Joy should retire

[@letsroll492]

Funny that Kyle had Denny's info but couldn't gain on him or pass😮😢😂

[@jeremyharper3462]

@letsroll492 Kyle doesn't have access to that data in real time. His team might, but the drivers also say that the trace data is different from manufacturer to manufacturer because the power application for a Chevy is different than for Ford and Toyota. I imagine that even if the data were useful in that situation, communicating it to Kyle while he's driving would be impossible. He could have tried a few more aggressive moves to pass him, but it would have likely required some contact (which Denny deserves), and he could not have gotten completely smoked on the restart as well.

[@isaacsalas9495]

Appreciate all of your content man, keeps my busy week a little more enjoyable agreeing and disagreeing and just listening/watching your videos

[@EricEstepp]

Thanks for watching!

[@luisespinosajr3305]

Absolutely, get rid of rear cameras and no access to other teams data. That would be a great starting point. I also don’t think that NASCAR should be in the car designing and building business, set the parameters and let teams build their own cars. It’s how they used to do it until NASCAR decided to make money there too. It would not hurt to have longer practices also, so the teams have a better idea of what to expect on race day.

[@drumnbasssakuga9352]

Eric I find it funny how you say the issue is the cars being too similar in performance when JGR and Hendrick have been absolutely dominating this season, and clearly have better cars than everyone else. How does that make sense? Add 200 horsepower to every car and the superstar drivers will rise to the top with superior throttle control alone.

[@mintoxace5571]

I agree 100% Eric. It’s ridiculous that they get to look at each other’s data from different teams and manufacturers. I don’t know any other motor racing series that allows that point

[@letsroll492]

It's not unfair if they allow everyone to do it and Kyle even had Denny's information and couldn't pass them at the end😮

[@aaronlewellen5]

Someone getting to see how someone else turn a lap, It's like having another teams playbooks NFL, when you think that way, it is way way outta bounds!!!⬇️

[@bobbyscottphotography]

The xfinity cars and racing have been more consistent and more exciting the last few years than the next gen cars. I think there need to be tweaks all over the board.. there have been more wheel mishaps with the one lug wheels which in my head, seems more dangerous in general. There definitely needs to be more horsepower.. the aero blocking needs to be more controlled with more options to fight it.. meaning, most of the tracks are one main groove.. can try other lines and some can make it work but it's rare.. which makes aero blocking almost impossible to do anything with.. if the cars/tracks would drive better and have more grooves it would make for better racing. It's no fun when there is one groove, aero dependant, "equal" cars that can barely pass as it is.. especially with hardly any practice.

[@mikevoyles397]

Mirror driving has been a thing since racing began. It's just racing

[@mattshade8472]

Racers want change when they lose and don’t want as much change when they win. I think most humans are that way. When you win, you want the variables to stay the same so you keep winning. The take on different variables and looking at everyone else’s SMT data is a great take. The new generation of NASCAR is like an ARCA version of the old IROC series.

[@bpennington75]

I think that no teams should be allowed any data from other teams during the race. After the race is finished then teams can have access to the data on Monday. NASCAR needs to start changing their views on this new race car before they start losing fans on and off the track. NASCAR is only hurting themselves by making this cars all the same. I would rather watch paint dry than watch a race without any action. I want to watch a race that keeps me entertained and engaged from start to finish.

[@GrandpaShark]

I don't know when it changed, but it used to be that teams couldn't even get data from their own car during the race.

[@letsroll492]

As long as everyone's playing by the same rules that information doesn't matter😮? case in point Kyle had Denny's information but couldn't pass him😮

[@chancegheno8096]

Lol, while you were talking about Jimmie Johnson trying to run down Daniel Suárez my phone's battery was at 84%

[@jonlarson6298]

Lajoie on Stacking Pennies argues strongly to remove rear camera... won't elimate air blocking but to paraphrase, would put more on the driver to use instinct, instead of review camera driving. Check it out. Thanks for your show!

[@lucilledog8832]

As a back marker, Lajoke has no use for the rear camera. 🤡

[@ethanweeter2732]

And rely more on that spotter and the side and rear view mirrors.

[@mgm1356]

​@@lucilledog8832😂😂😂😂 so true

[@jonlarson6298]

So, which car is it that you drive? Lajoie may not be your top tier driver but has done tons for the sport. What have you done lately. 😢😢😢​@lucilledog8832

[@BighairyAmericanwinningmachine]

people say nascar fans whine constantly, but the truth is that when you know how good this sport can be, and you see the problems that are causing it to fall behind its potential, why not call them out?

[@brandondavis8790]

Amen the current clown leadership needs to go

[@andyjennings15]

The diffuser was supposed to help with dirty air but made it worse.

[@GrandpaShark]

Up until a few years ago, Nascar teams could not even monitor their own car's data during the race.

[@cjfastfoot]

I don't understand Denny Hamlin. As a Kyle Busch fan between Larson and Hamlin sure either are fine I would prefer larson but I watched the onboard with Kyle Busch who was clearly faster than Noah Gragson. Kyle rode behind Noah for like 10 laps and couldn't pass him because of dirty air. These are the things with Denny that make me not like him

[@jaredchampagne2752]

If Denny wins, the sport is perfect and nothing has to change, if he loses or the same moves are done to him, he all up in arms screaming for change. He’s just a narcissist hypocrite on all levels. It’s why no one likes him. He’s two faced.

[@mgm1356]

​@@jaredchampagne2752I like Hamlin, I think he is an excellent driver... And I'm not even a Toyota fan by any stretch

[@coopersweeney1336]

Denny is such a hypocrite. He only likes things if they help him win and cheat

[@ae43ro]

lets go back to the 1999 car, I loved that racing

[@jurt750]

We put a man on the moon 45 years ago… You can’t convince me NASCAR can’t build a car with this many issues. Lower the spoiler, go to 750-horse power with higher rpm and gearing, build tires with more fall off, find a way to get rid of the diffuser. All of the sharing needs to go away, too. I love NASCAR, but it’s more entertainment than real sport now.

[@lemonjuicegaming6551]

If everyone is equal, then nobody is special. The cars are so leveled it's harder to pass on certain green flag runs. That's why NASCAR needs to increase the horsepower to 1,000 and bring softer tires. This will separate men from the boys. We'd really see who the real ones are from the fake ones.

[@joealtamuro]

Regarding NASCAR & the teams: The teams have already started a “work slowdown” at the drafting tracks. ⛽️ 🐢

[@jimmywilliams1822]

Absolutely agree on taking away real time access to SMT data. I dont know the history on why the data sharing became a thing in the first place, but it's definitely an issue. If NASCAR is going to remain steadfast in not taking a major swing at the horsepower, they need to pull every other marginal lever they have left, and this would be one.

[@GrandpaShark]

Up until a few years ago, Nascar teams could not even monitor their own car's data during the race.

[@scottrudd3863]

I’m enjoying your channel. As a kid I was a casual watcher. Now I’m 57 and went to my first race (COTA). Loved it and can’t get enough. Going to Michigan in August. Got to try a short track next year 😎

[@EricEstepp]

That's awesome to hear! Michigan is a cool track.

[@Untoastedbagel1271]

Liked what you said about superstars. I think indycar has it perfect. It’s largely a spec series, but you have drivers who are known for taking risks, going all out, and leaving nothing on track. Pato O Ward, Scott Dixion, they’re superstars. That feels hard with the Next Gen and how almost everyone drives the same. Maybe NASCAR can find a way to take a page out of their book

[@chrisguardiano6143]

As an Indycar fan in addition to NASCAR, the way these charter negotiations are going reminds me a lot of what happened prior to "The Split" in Indycar 30 years ago where you had major tension between CART & Tony George (who was president of IMS at the time) over the direction that Indycar should have been going at the time. For some more context, Tony George wanted significantly more ovals on the CART schedule & more American drivers while CART wanted to expand internationally & continue bringing international stars which Tony George felt as though held the series back. Eventually Tony George decided that he wanted to do his own thing by creating the oval only IRL & then he decided to screw over the CART teams by implementing that stupid 25/8 rule for the Indy 500. Hopefully NASCAR does not try to do something similar to that for the Daytona 500 because I guarantee you if that happened, the majority of teams in NASCAR would instantly leave the series & either form their own series or join the CARS Tour.

[@RippingItAllSportsCards]

LOL and you think the teams have no money now? Remember when people said SRX will rival NASCAR? What happened?

[@polycube868]

@chrisguardino6143 all the teams need is an investor who would say "Hey, I hear you and NASCAR ain't getting along, why not we give you money to tell NASCAR get lost and we'll fund a racing series the way you want it" SMI then says "We hate those NASCAR jerks too! Race teams, we stand with you!" then teams dust off old Gen 6 and Xfinity cars as Gen 7 cars are only allowed at NASCAR Cup Series events, the teams head to Rockingham Speedway for a 400 mile race, the stands are PACKED as every big name driver is there, Chase Elliott, Kyle Larson, Kyle Busch, Denny Hamlin, etc, even Tony Stewart shows up just because "F NASCAR" the race is broadcast on Network TV and also many foreign networks are also covering the race, which turns out to be massively successful, and a competitive race that looks like old school NASCAR used to be, no stages, no phantom debris cautions, fans LOVE it and the teams with SMI form a brand new series, which ultimately caters to old school hardcore race fans, leading NASCAR to panic and double down on more gimmicks, more street courses and overall downgrades itself more and more but still building up an audience of the casual sports fan.

[@RippingItAllSportsCards]

@polycube868 I don't think an investor is going to gladly pay a billion dollars a year to create a new series.

[@polycube868]

@@RippingItAllSportsCards LIV Tour Golf...

[@jasonwoodward3697]

Aero Blocking has been around way longer than 20 years. However back in the day there were gray areas in the rule book that the teams could massage their cars. Teams no longer have that massage room. More horsepower under the car will not fix the issue , again all the motors will be the same. Tires will help in the short term, until all the drivers understand the game and how it is played. You only have to watch F1 to see that very rarely does a tire gamble pay off. Best thing nascar can do is allow more room for the engineers to become “ creative “ within a grey area and see what they can do.

[@TheCloudCreation]

I'm not sure who pointed this out, and it was pointed out a while ago (at least 2 years ago), but this car punches a MASSIVE hole in the air, similar to the Xfinity car, but the difference between the 2 is that the Xfinity car's rear end tapers off. The CUp car's rear end is just as wide as the front, so the air takes longer to go from a disrupted, turbulant state, to a settled state (max downforce for the next car). That's one of the big reason's why Xfinity drivers are able to drive right up to the rear end of other drivers, because the body shape of the car allows the turbulant air to reform much quicker because the rear end is not as boxy as the Cup car. This topic was brought up a long time ago, but it no one ever caught on to it and ran with it, so I don't know how accurate the information is, but if you think about it and look at the 2 cars, the logic makes sense. I would be interested in seeing NASCAR try a more sloped rear end. It doesn't have to be drastic, the Xfinity car isn't majority curved, it's just not a hard 90* angle from the rear quarter panel to the rear bumper.

[@stephenadams5293]

They team thats winning in current equipment aren't going to want to change. I agree teams shouldn't have access to data of other teams.

[@darrelladams4188]

Denny just being a Cardashian

[@yourejovian]

Chastainian

[@darrelladams4188]

@@yourejovian I like ( CARdashian ) it’s a play on how much he believes everyone knows who he is., he’s a race CAR driver.

[@wankeltruck21165]

​@@darrelladams4188hater?

[@genemaverick5705]

Kardashian !!! Smh

[@darrelladams4188]

@@wankeltruck21165 I don’t deny these allegations.

[@davidduda4719]

Just a point of curiosity. We do we consider using the draft to your advantage to be "good," but using dirty air to your advantage to be "bad?" Is the only different that one helps passing and one hurts it? The skill required to benefit form dirty air is probably much higher than the skill need to catch a draft.

[@cherylferguson8561]

I had a friend who was into sprint car racing, who called NASCAR a spec car, spec tire series

[@polycube868]

Your friend isn't wrong.

[@randallellison6421]

And that's why I keep saying increasing the horsepower alone, will not fix the problem with this car! Let's say you give these guys an extra 100 horsepower, or heck, let's say you take the tapered spacers completely off the cars and let them run unrestricted, great, now you have cars running 200 mph, AND THEY STILL CAN'T PASS, because they are, as your friend said, a spec car underneath the body. So now, you have to rely on the design of the bodywork (or more appropriately, the shape of the nose and tail sections) to overcome the inability to adjust in other areas of the car (shocks, springs, gearing, etc). It's going to take opening up the playbook some to really see a difference.

[@JamesLangille-oi6pl]

My opinion only way to make those cars less aero dependant is make them less aero dynamic. Back in the day lol cars were Luke bricks going through the air l. Now everything is so sleek like a airplane. If u make car so sleek and get air to help it. It is common sense the faster u go aero is required and once broke by lead car there is none there for the second. I think that is simple physics, which I suck at

[@autophile-cv621]

I can agree with both sides on making charters permanent. with permanency it helps those who have them build their operations around being guaranteed a starting spot in all races. However, with permanency the chances for new teams to get into a race, is really limited. Maybe NASCAR should limit the number of charters a car owner can have to THREE. It seems the charter system still seems to favor bigger, older teams as opposed to any newer or one car teams.

[@kellisfh]

How would I change the aero? Remove the diffuser and get the car off the ground. And then add enough horsepower to offset the larger contact patch the next gen tire has. Or, conversely, reduce the contact patch of the tire somehow.

[@johnhaas2523]

You know there used to be this thing called ride height But you got too many smart engineers Who figured out how to get around it when the car is on the track

[@garnyewest2903]

I can't wait to see where this rivalry goes next week at Kansas

[@marcusvillarreal]

And I think Christopher Bell will win this weekend at Kansas and that's not a prediction it's a spoiler

[@tipjackson3973]

Jesus ,Kansas, I can’t wait for that sleep fast. I mean, how do you fuck up a place like Talledega and Dover?

[@darthhull85]

@@marcusvillarrealhe’s gonna get wrecked.

[@marcusvillarreal]

@@darthhull85 we'll see

[@brandondavis8790]

​@@tipjackson3973you clearly have never watched a race at Kansas it's not a sleep fest you 🤡

[@zacharyphillips8910]

That really grinds my gears to learn that the teams have access to everyone’s in race data it takes away the authenticity of the racing. However as for the Super star discussion I feel that we know who they are NASCAR and the teams just needs to market their drivers better I wouldn’t trade the competitiveness of the sport for anything and be like formula one. Idk bout you guys but I love going into Sundays not having a clue who is going to win.

[@joshuapboston1999]

Nice to see that NASCAR is dividing and conquering on the charter agreement. If charters go the way of the dodo bird next year, it will make things all the better.

[@RippingItAllSportsCards]

Negotiation tactics 101. We see this in all sports. One day everyone is far apart, the next day a deal is done.

[@coneydogkid]

I like your comment about removing the real-time sharing of SMT data. It would we a step in the right direction. I wouldn't find it as enjoyable to watch a sport where the on-track action is dictated by an AI-powered operations center - which is where this is headed. If you want superstars, then it should be up to the drivers to figure out how to react during a race.

[@SCubDriver]

I hated the SMT data when they started releasing it, and I hate it now. NASCAR used to go to tracks and you knew certain drivers were always good there. Not really the case anymore...it seemed like they started sharing data to get their young drivers (ie. Blaney, Elliot, etc) up to speed faster with the veterans, but now everyone basically drives the tracks the same.

[@NexXxu]

5:11 NASCAR takes control of everything Started in 2017 with the “universal” lug nuts pistols, and now they build the chassis.

[@jangentry2525]

Not going to lie it is much better to watch the race a few days later on you tube with no commercials. So much better

[@johnbarker5009]

How much of this is actually about everyone understanding how the aerodynamics work? Back in the day, people said "Dale Earnhardt just sees the air." He didn't see the air, he was just very observant and smart enough to make some good guesses about what made it more or less difficult to pass another car, and why. He was also cagey enough to keep that knowledge to himself. None of the rest of us realized the slingshot worked partly on the basis of slowing down the lead car with a side draft on the rear spoiler. Then he told those secrets to Dale Jr and Michael Waltrip. I think very few people believe Mikey would have figured out on his own that making a pass at a superspeedway goes best if you hug the other car's quarter panel with your nose to slow it down, then move away from it before your spoiler can pick up air from their nose. Well, 3 people can keep a secret if 2 of them are dead, so Waltrip starts his ill-fated team and coaches HIS drivers in all this. Next thing you know, we're all listening to Larry Mack's voice with graphics to show us all how this works. Brad Keselowski take the 2 car to a dominant victory by dive bombing just past the quarter panel of car after car and turning dramatically away from them, because the wind tunnel taught Penske Racing that the bow wave off one of these cars is way wider than even Earnhardt realized. Drivers figure out defensive moves against these slingshot passes. And now, this is all stuff drivers learn clear down at the ARCA level. They're pros at it by the time they get in a Cup car.

[@karlcalvert812]

PREACH

[@jacobwilson6192]

Their a couple option, one of 23XI said something good point about if they don't show up the race, but Nascar should look at if one of the charter driver is injured, that 23XI person said something that is a good point, the only thing I could look at if they are getting rid of the Waiver and that's a bad thing if the driver is injured, but the one point I would agree with if Nascar don't give driver a Waiver if they are suspended, so to me the only solution I can come up with is eliminate the charters completely and another if Jim France refuse to see the RTA person of Nascar, then I would see RTA person might file a lawsuit against Jim France for Defamation for ruining his repetition.

[@jcarn24]

Aero will always play a factor, the biggest issue I have is the emphasis drivers have to put on aero blocking in the gen 7 car. Back when mechanical grip mattered more, the following car had more tools at their disposal than they do now. In today’s day and age, the leader has all the control which is frustrating for those of us who remember a time where there was lots of movement throughout the field

[@CQBlindHams]

I think that if every team built a Cars Ture late model stock car. NASCAR would think more about making an agreement for the charters to be permanent. Especially since the owners of the Cars Ture are former drivers. Late Model stocks put on a better show anyway. What network would not give Jr's series a deal? Heck keep it on Flow, and watch the big networks and Nascar sweat bullets.

[@polycube868]

No, move it to ESPN as Thursday Night Thunder with some races on network ABC

[@Ice-Blade]

No live data sharing, no rear diffusers, different tires (weather it be luge/sizes or original 15" goodyears like the rest of the racing world uses..) real 5-6 speed actually have to push a clutch peddle to shift manual transmissions. more HP, less trigger happy cautions, better camera crews, allow the teams to build their own parts per spec rules. (at least shocks and springs) and much beefier tow links. no rear spoiler angle restrictions and or max/min angle adjustable limits, every car needs the same cameras or not at all on/in them. rear view mirrors need to be mounted center up high like a real traditional mirror glass or camera optional , options to remove passenger window for HOT ass weather, non carbureted fuel injection 6+L 750+hp engines with cold air intakes/ram intakes. rear exiting or dual racing exhaust, actual stock bodies with the lights taken out and plated over. better shock absorbing seats/mounts something for the drivers . a real restart zone, a real 1/2 way point to race back to front Stretch middle of turns back streak some bright red obvious lines or something to help the ill timed caution light drama. there's more then just the car package that can be done to make the racing better and driver skill impactful....

[@johnhaas2523]

You're only going to see 18 in wheels because that's what the manufacturers want

[@John-kx3ng]

Legendary Bud Moore Racing shop has fire with significant damage to building, very sad.

[@sirwoodrooster5939]

For the Charters, NASCAR will give a bigger payout and extend the permanent Charter agreement out 7-8 years. No way will NASCAR open there books as much as the teams want.

[@4_14_fan]

If these cars had enough horsepower to spin out under acceleration we'd see who the real superstars are and we'd see dirty air talk go way down, equal cars are fine as long as they don't limit the drivers like the gen 7 does.

[@deanlaveck5847]

Hamlin had a good race and Larson did move up soon as he hit lap traffic I thought overall totally awesome

[@gasgassteve]

They got to cut off the data between teams . That just ridiculous . Even the manufacturers shouldnt see everything . Just what the teams want to show them . Secrecy is always needed in sports . Most teams wont even tell you the whole story when a athlete is injured . Got to have some privacy

[@polycube868]

Only NASCAR should have access to SMT data so they can find cheating (jumping restarts) or to study crashes.

[@GrandpaShark]

Up until a few years ago, Nascar teams could not even monitor their own car's data during the race.

[@cdmit27]

Imagine all NFL teams using the same playbook

[@dannyalex7152]

Dirty Air is a factor in all motorsports... even F1. Also, what if we take off the rear diffuser of the Next Gen car?

[@oliverhunt9362]

And F1 are always trying to reduce the affect of dirty air.

[@tomingram4108]

Calk it what it really is has nothing to do with aero. The drivers all have rear view cameras they spend all their time watching the screen out back. If these guys are the best in the world why to they need rear view cams? Because they can't race without them. Local track I work at no one uses cams or mirrors and no one wrecks

[@nathanmiddaugh6986]

Problem is the last time nascar has a dominant driver (Johnson), they did not elevate to superstar status. I went to high school during a Johnson’s heyday. I lived in ND where I was one of two fans in grade seven up. Only person that heard of Johnson was the other NASCAR fan. Others had heard of Gordon, Jr, or Stewart. But Johnson never got superstardom. Denny might be able to do it if he finally puts together a season and wins the cup and we keep going with the Netflix series. But at this stage in his career that’s only five years at the very most.

[@polycube868]

NASCAR refused to market him correctly, it was all OMG guys Dale Jr while ignoring Jimmie Johnson

[@ChristopherWHerbert]

This video turned out much better than I was expecting. Perhaps because unlike his fellow KZbin cohorts Eric does not hold close to Narcissist tendencies as they do display.. So in the end I was more pleased with the video content. From what I was foreseeing from the sideline, before I did press play. It was also of interest to see the Logano moment featured, with the Gen 6 car. Where I believe was from Kevin Harvick's in-car camera in what had been said of 2nd placed Harvick be the faster of the two cars together on the track. The Charters are another deal. Where I am reminded in comparison to Australia's Supercars Series. Within the Supercars series former Racing Entitlement Contracts (now changed to be handled as a Charter in the series). Any V8 Supercars team that failed to run an entry in a given race, Were fined a substantial sum of monies. For not turning up. In Australian dollars to the amount of over $300,000 per REC (team licence with Supercars) Since the contents of the NASCAR Charter agreement is super secret. Such clauses in the NASCAR Charter agreement are not known. However by the way public talk is made on the topic. There may only be driver and owners points and a NASCAR Championship on the line, It has been the none points events as The Clash and All-Star weekend in NASCAR. That not taking part was spoken about as a threat in relation to NASCAR teams. It also depends if indeed NASCAR does have a punishment system in place for teams that plan not to turn up for such events, The other hand. NASCAR teams can do the F1 thing, as was done in relation to a protest over a supplier of race tires at Indianapolis Motor Speedway, way back in 2005. With possible NASCAR teams driving into the pits and having longer than normal pit stops during these non-points events on the racing calendar. The 100% rule may prevent the NASCAR teams from driving slow, when in the actual mode of racing. Except that has happened in recent events at Daytona and Talladega, under the cover of fuel saving. NASCAR has its 'Action Decremental' rule, nevertheless to use in applying any form of possible punishment. As for the SMT data. That should be held as being private to the teams involved with seeing their own data. In relation to during the race period and not SMT data from the opposition teams. (What happens with the same SMT data following the race is also another point. If indeed the SMT data is so easy to obtain and view)

[@Sc2ner]

YES!!! 100% in a agreementwith everything you said.. Ive been saying this for years with the data sharing. Finally someone talking about this

[@kevinrandolph9109]

1) great info and video as always 2) variables are the key, and with this IROC esk car, there are little to none 3) I'm not sure if it's the good ole boy system or 5he older owners know their time in the sport is coming to an end and letting the younger people have more say since it's the NASCAR they'll have to compete in. And not necessarily new teams as much as new faces running the old teams, like a Gordon, Dillion, Keslowski, etc

[@Itsgamingtime11-co5kp]

Aero blocking is a perfectly acceptable way of racing in my opinion I don’t have a problem with it that much. I had to explain to a friend how I works and I said “It’s like the air is disturbed when one car goes through it, and then the other car goes through and the air can’t get calm enough for the clean air to form”

[@connorbingel7134]

If the whole body made down/side force I think it would be better. The small aero elements suck. Latemodels, dirt cars, and modifieds, don’t have issues with aero. More power and softer tires would help a bunch too

[@Dougie1969]

Aero is perfectly acceptable at larger tracks. But not short tracks

[@Itsgamingtime11-co5kp]

@@Dougie1969 yeah

[@kooltymz6432]

Not exactly the best explanation. That would have made me even more confused. You should have deferred and let him ask somebody that knows about the dirty air.

[@THECOMBUSTIONGAMER]

I always forget everybody has eachothers data, good idea no more data sharing.

[@ADGHOU]

That 2020 Kansas finish was trash, but 2021 was so freaking good, we had it perfect in 2021

[@marcusvillarreal]

I think Christopher Bell will win this weekend at Kansas and that's not a prediction it's a spoiler

[@JackLikesTrackhouse]

@@marcusvillarrealnah Larson W

[@ADGHOU]

@@marcusvillarreal giant ass spoiler…🤣

[@ADGHOU]

@@JackLikesTrackhouse Denny delivers

[@marcusvillarreal]

@@JackLikesTrackhouse Bell vs Larson with Bell winning

[@michaelpaul85]

My question is will the “new” management of these “good ole boy” teams want the status quo or will they be open to a “new” more modern business model. Jeff Gordon, Austin Dillion, Legacy, whoever takes over Penske, will they be willing to move to a modern, more current way of running NASCAR?? 🤔

[@tommybounds3220]

Thank you for the video.

[@user-bw4yt3cg9m]

I think the drivers are well you know which b word I'm talking about and yeah had to be beeped out, not often you do that on OOTG.

[@Eubanksproductions]

I said it once and I'll say it again. If the team owners got together with their sponsors and decided to sit out 2 races back to back, I guarantee you NASCAR would lose so much money they would be at the table the next day ready to negotiate.

[@Wrlixer]

If Denny was aero blocked he would cry like a little Hampster

[@norme2681]

I don't stick up for Denny hardly ever, but the outcome was reversed when Chase won. I thought that was one of Denny's best post interviews, not as good as Mike Joy description "and Hamlin is in the wall", but he was humble in that moment.

[@yashkasheriff9325]

@@norme2681 Yeah, seconded. Making him sound malicious is way out of pocket and unreasonable imo.

[@evannuh-koo-la4054]

I don't know why fans are complaining about this now, I was literally looking at it during the entirety of last year's race between Truex and Chastain, and barely anyone said a thing

[@miketwotwenty]

And when gen 6 had 550hp package that was a lot worse Kevin Harvick winning 10 races in 2020 and Larson won 10 races in 2021! Lot of People are just mad because Denny won!

[@Individual_two]

As far as charter being permanent, that will probably not happen. NASCAR doesn't want to give up their "bottom 3" rule to weed out the weakest chartered teams.

[@JackLikesTrackhouse]

NASCAR’s current management doesn’t seem to like the charter system but all the team owners are lobbying for it to stay because it benefits them

[@PegassoGaming956]

I was definitely not expecting an MLS reference in an Out of the Groove video. Do you have a favorite soccer team, Eric?

[@ClaremontClassicGarage]

Aero is a part of all racing. I raced a mini stock that went 65MPH and aero came into play there(but very limited). These cup cars rely on it too much. When they're talking about it at M'ville and Bristol its gone too far.

[@3120DownForce]

You raced a 4cyl car and think aero was in play during your 60mph top speed, a speed that you likely only hit for 2 seconds. So in the corners your speed probably dropped to 40mph... there isn't any aero at 40 pal. 😂😂

[@paulywoodtheprince]

​@@3120DownForce And you had to be the Guy that had to let him Know...

[@ClaremontClassicGarage]

. When you have a gutted fwd 4 cyl car that has about 30% weight on the back wheels try driving it without a 5 inch blade on the back of it. Then I put a rear window back in it and it was even better I did this for a long time. I'm not making it up. Did you see where it said "very limited" in brackets? I'm not talking about creating the kind of downforce created by a cup car. That's ridiculous. I had to have a 5 inch ride height.

[@rmg_2771]

Totally agree with how equal nascar is making the cars. It’s like playing a racing video game. You face multiple people, but use the same cars and driving and breaking assists, you won’t be able to pass since everyone is driving the exact same. That’s what we’re experiencing in nascar right now

[@DaronP.959]

I guess this could be a reason people don't like nascar compared to f1 or wtv On each nascar track there really only 2 passing zones but on circuits there can be way more and with aero blocking it pretty much ruins passing zones bc they are only in turns

[@dhooper1025]

If Hamlin and Larson were switched then Hamlin would be complaining about the aero blocking as well. Therefore it'd still be a topic of conversation even if Hamlin didn't win

[@chuckhoward3626]

Look what Big Bill France did for racing - he gave racers a stage and got out of their way. Now back to the movie...

[@8ETHANK8]

Rest in peace Wally Dallenbach

[@NexXxu]

RIP, i gonna miss him in NBC broadcast

[@shoebiskits]

​@NexXxu it was his Dad

[@MichaelWilliams-vb6wr]

What I ain't herd anything Wally died

[@NexXxu]

@@shoebiskitsOhhhh

[@HonoraryBoomer]

I'm looking forward to Kansas this weekend, does anybody have details on whether or not Eric will have a Meetup? I didn't see him in the lineup for a NASCAR experience 😞

[@marcusvillarreal]

I think Christopher Bell will win this weekend at Kansas and that's not a prediction it's a spoiler

[@HonoraryBoomer]

@@marcusvillarreal 😂

[@Born1nTheUsa]

I would change the aerodynamics by changing to the xfinity car in the next couple of years.

[@androidken]

Remember that one team years ago that used an electronic motor spoiler and moved it during the race to create an aero advantage? I wouldn't put it past NASCAR to start doing that in order to eliminate the lead car's advantage by increasing the drag or something on the lead car. And teams could do a strike next year at Daytona... that would put NASCAR in a bad position.

[@MarshallGriffin69]

That intro😂😂😂

[@yashkasheriff9325]

Agreed. I like Eric's videos usually but this was his worst moment ever.

[@toddmanger7194]

I was there at Dover, as much as I dislike Hamlin, the racing was really good and Larson probably needed more lap traffic and laps to have shot.

[@NUGGET-vi1lt]

NASCAR just has to make the manufacturers relevant again. By allowing them to design new engines or forcing them to have some body parts and/or diffuser from the actual vehicle on the car. Then the manufacturers can gain their own slight advantage but it still has to show up in the production version.

[@ocd1927]

It's a GT road car with too much tire and too little horsepower. 800 hp and hard compound small patch tire. That will fix it. Nobody on another team sees any other team's data, period, unless it's a safety issue.

[@Farkle_8000]

Just before I go on, I am not an engineer, I have no clue how to fix anything, I just wanna suggest something, then hear from the experts if it's a good idea What if NASCAR let teams add skew to the car again? Would that let the drivers to the quarter panel to loosen up the car? That would likely make it easier to pass right?

[@OnTheHighSide_ryanleahy]

When the Next Gen car came out, it focused on having parody and making every driver equal so that every driver has a greater chance to be successful, but slowly NASCAR fans are realizing that if every driver has a chance of being successful, then one driver has less of a chance of being extremely successful and that’s the easiest way to make superstars. Do you think that the next car will hurt the sport in the long run?

[@milogunther5024]

The problem with NASCAR is the car and stage racing. The car causes injuries more frequently, it may also be drivers are more open to saying so, as well as too equal and too many things can be seen. Jimmie Johnson was dominant in the 2000s and early 2010s because only HMS knew what Jimmie and Chad were doing to the car. Spoiler is, in my opinion, too tall still. Cut the spoiler half inch or a full inch, or bring back the shark fin. BHP is too low, put it back to at least 900 for cup. GET RID OF STAGE CAUTIONS, keep the stages. The tyres wear out the same no matter how hard they drive

[@miketwotwenty]

Drivers got injured in gen 6! Racing is dangerous the drivers know the risks, but I want too see more horsepower in these cars about 800hp! but honestly people are complaining too much!

[@wilfredoserrano5782]

Wait… so if all things are equal and no superstar drivers emerge, doesn’t that mean that there are no superstars and it really just comes down to the teams behind the scenes? So that would make us no different than F1? Correct me if I’m wrong but that’s just what came to mind. If there’s fractions of a second between 20+ drivers then there’s not much difference in talent? Kinda sucks to think of it that way after all these years of making that argument. We really are just turning left aren’t we

[@grand_master_of_izalith7186]

Hamlin wants that SMT data so he can try and get anyone who touches him suspended 😂

[@EricEstepp]

Lmao

[@randylaurahollingshead7685]

Canadian fan. Great show Eric .make the cars fit the template of a real street car, and let the manufacturer's figure out the difference. Like they did in the 60s to 80s.

[@bryanbennett972]

We need Old Time NASCAR back. Race the Cars each Manufacturer actually Builds. All the cars being just the same with the only difference being the damn Decal on the car for each manufacturer is ruining the sport. Maybe one of the Teams will put a huge fin on the back of their Car like Richard Petty used to run.

[@cdmit27]

If they raced cars the manufacturers actually build, we'd be watching racing with Ford Focuses and Chevy Cruzes

[@bonnysmith4908]

That's like what Kyle Petty said on your show.

[@nathan1sixteen]

The Charter agreement is interesting, especially listening to 23XL execs talk about it. On one had they want more money and more say over what goes on, and on the other hand they want NASCAR to cover more and more of the expenses that the teams currently shoulder (things like tire tests and such). I feel like you can’t have it both ways. Either, you ask for more money, but with that more R&D expenses are going to be put in the teams OR you stick with the current payouts and put more of the testing burden on NASCAR. Furthermore, I do think dropping the “all 36 teams must show up” clause is good, as that way, if a smaller teams (say JTG Daugherty) gets a win early on (like the 500 last year) and they know they don’t run well at, say, COTA, they could save a little bit of cash by not running that race. Or, if something crazy happens to a team, etc. making the requirement that all teams must show up in order for any teams to get the payout is crazy. With that being said, I miss the days where there was a chance that a star wasn’t auto qualified for a race and there was a chance they might miss it. Now, granted, that would require a bunch of open cars to show up, but also, it would probably encourage more open cars to show up in general. Like, why would an open car show up right now? They know they get scraps, even if they win. The charter agreement totally screws them over.

[@johnhaas2523]

Curtis just needs to go back to the NBA or go to the NFL if That's the kind of business he wants to deal with as in unions. I like players unions but I do not like unions in auto racing

[@nathan1sixteen]

@@johnhaas2523 I don’t like unions period, anymore.

[@AnkleStabber]

How are Denny Hamlin and William Byron not considered super stars rn? I feel like they've won every race this year. What more do they need to do?

[@norme2681]

As long as Bubba is seeing squirrels, NASCAR has the teams and drivers where they want them. I don't see many changes on NASCAR"s part in November, what that will bring in 2025? When they ran for purse money in the 70s the Wood Brothers would only show up when the money was right.

[@brandondavis8790]

Wtf does bubba have to do with this bubba is a driver he doesn't decide anything for Nascar but clowns like you being so obsessed with him is what makes it hard to move on from the past just shut up now

[@BigTader]

Eric I have a solution for the cup series take the cup drivers put them in Xfinity cars on Sundays and let them race and what a race it would be I believe it would be awesome.

[@chrismv9203]

LARSON says F aero blocking!!! 💪

[@fishingwithkar4871]

Considering charters are valued at around 40 million dollars right now. Unless Nascar has 1.4 billion sitting around that they can pay out to the 36 charter teams. Then Nascar has no leverage and no choice and has to make the charter's permanent. Or they have to pay out $40 million dollars to each charter team. Which is about 1.4 billion dollars. And if NASCAR just pulls the chargers and says hey you don't get any money well then the teams need to do a split and get the heck away from Nascar and create their own series.

[@nomadman5288]

The horsepower part is a bit overblown. I'm not saying I don't want more, but cars from the 70s, 80s and early 90s had less horsepower than the cars now and the Xfinity series has about 40-50 less, so that's probably the least of the issues if you really think about it from that perspective. I believe it's the geometry of the car mixed with a flawed aero design, mainly one that creates more drag which will almost always cause more turbulent air and/or a larger wake. The geometry makes the cars inherently tight which is going to exaggerate any aero issues even more in traffic. This is why it gets worse and worse as you get deeper in the field. However, this can be compensated for to a degree with a better aero design. First thing here is the air escape behind the front wheels. That needs to be removed and sealed off like a normal wheel well would be. The air coming out widens the wake, which is why the cars draft so well, but also why the aero push is so bad in these cars compared to others. All the air needs to be directed to the back of the car, not coming out the sides. I think this change alone would make a difference that drivers would be able to notice. It might not be far enough, but it's the best place to start in terms of aero that would be a simple and relatively inexpensive change. The second part of this would be to add some small percentage of side force back to the right side of the cars at ovals - enough that it allows for a looser set up and for drivers to hang the car our more, but not too much that the cars can no longer race side by side because the bottom car can't get air to the right rear. Allowing for a looser car would also give drivers more options in terms of which tire to drive off of rather than being stuck driving off of the right front. This brings us to the power issue. To drive more off the RR, it might be the case that some more horsepower would be necessary, but it's probably not as much as some might think. I'd like to see them test it around 750. I also believe that, despite the claim that "cars need downforce to wear tires," the cars actually need less aero grip so they slide around, which would compensate for the wear with more heat build up. That's not to say they couldn't make a tire that does wear more as well to help counter less downforce. The other part of having less downforce is the off throttle time which is sorely lacking at so many mid sized tracks which also contributes to the dirty air problem through the corners. NASCAR had 3 years to design this car and never really tested it until the last minute. That's when they realized all their simulations were off and went into panic mode, forcing the teams to have to rescue them from themelves. However, NASCAR has never admitted their mistakes. Or when they do, it's more like someone just going through the motions to appease others when they don't really take any real responsibility for it. There's always some, "yeah, but." They need to take the damn L on this one and work on an overhaul with the teams. The teams could probably solve 80% of the problems they're having with 20% of the time and effort. Give the teams 3 months and it would be like a different race car, yet still look almost exactly the same. The officials at NASCAR are clowns.

[@brandondavis8790]

Yep the nascar leadership is clowns I always call out for their firings pretty much every day these days and for Dale jr Jeff Gordon Jimmie Johnson Kevin Harvick and Matt Kenseth to take over the leadership all 5 of them could easily fix a majority of the problems in this sport in 1 day give or take 1 week than what the current 🤡 leadership could in 1 whole year

[@jacobwatts202]

Well SVG won't be in the Allstar race because there is no cat available for him.