Why Airguns Are Used in the Olympics (And Not Yer Granpappy's 1911)

[@kenbrown2808]

unstated point: the greater consistency of the airgun removes the element of randomness, which increases the percentage of the final score that depends on the skill of the shooter.

[@JaredAF]

correct, i don't think i outright stated it in the video so thank you

[@kenbrown2808]

@@JaredAF it's something the average shooter never thinks about because we aren't skilled enough for it to make a difference. my grouping with a basic model airgun would be the same as my grouping with an accurized airgun.

[@X862go]

randomness is part of the sport all recoil isn't the same right?

[@kenbrown2808]

@@X862go not at that level. it's about skill rather than luck.

[@brealistic3542]

Yes, that's certainly true.

[@BurningMonkey]

"the raw power of .177 pellet" that was amazing levels of sarcasm :D

[@karkkosvolfe]

This guy has apparently never heard of 18-20th Century "Parlor" guns. Basically a variation of rimfire which use a light pellet & a primer. That said, I would still point out none of those people would perform anywhere near as well at 25yd with an actual firearm. Even if I handed them a classic "competition" specific 22lr pistol. *note, I was shooting 50 yd ~2" targets by 12. Using the ends of a coke can as the target.

[@James_Bee]

Not necessarily. A KZbinr had a pro-airsoft player come on his channel and shoot real guns and he did extremely well. Not all, but many aspects of Olympic airgun shooting is transferrable. Recoil control, if we are doing immediate followup shots might take some getting used too, but only if that is in the equation.

[@adabsurdum5905]

​@@karkkosvolfeRecoil is the only difference, so unless it was a timed rapid fire event, the skills absolutely transfer. I realized this when I shot a "real" rifle for the first time (mini 14) and outshot my girlfriends dad with his own gun (he worked at the armory at a prison). Turns out the thousands of hours of plinking with a pellet rifle paid off 😂

[@scottleggejr]

5.4 grain bullet 😂

[@jodycarter7308]

​@@karkkosvolfei remember those little primer/pellet rounds. Great for getting garden raiders (in town) without worrying about hurting a neighbour, and no calling cops because of the bang.

[@Verbose_Mode]

Real talk: these are not tools designed as weapons. They are tools designed for a sport at the highest level. Weapons have to consider stopping power and durability and less-than-ideal operating scenarios. These are designed to put a hole on a piece of paper or tink a piece of metal in a controlled environment. _AND THEY ARE DAYUM GOOD AT IT._

[@gmaninatrashcan7144]

Look into competition style AR15s. If you have a high pressure weather system when you sight in with those, then a low pressure system rolls in, the gun short strokes and jams.

[@adabsurdum5905]

​@@gmaninatrashcan7144Air guns are also capable of much more consistent muzzle velocity, and do not build up residue in between shots. Also worth noting that any of these participants would likely still be absolutely crazy accurate with a standard hand gun or rifle 😂

[@brokeandtired]

1. Because gun license's are hard to get in most countries. But air rifles are either unlicensed or easy to get a license for. You're not going to get much range time with a real gun easily in most nations.

[@keyboardstalker4784]

@@brokeandtired Sucks to suck, too bad you live in a communist country.

[@Brandon-yq1tm]

​@@gmaninatrashcan7144 That just isn't true, and even if it was a quick change in the gas setting would fix that instantly. Speaking as someone who has shot in gun competitions before.

[@PaleoBushman]

One of the things I enjoy as an old guy, is watching young people surpass me in knowledge. It never makes me jealous, rather only proud. This is especially true when it comes to the world of firearms, as well as anything freedom related. .

[@unpredictableaxolotl3762]

hell yeah.

[@jamesbarros950]

They’ll learn so much more Thank I’ll ever know. And I think to myself What a wonderful world

[@fuzzbuzz6581]

🧢

[@nicolafiorelli1319]

amen 👍👍👍👍

[@charlesg5085]

I bet you fart in the grocery store.

[@Armadurapersonal]

other aspect is how cheap the pellets are for training, a tin of 500 quality pellets costs $10-20 and at junior/club level that helps a lot to get kids shooting. much much cheaper than eley club 22lr ammo.

[@jamesbizs]

Ok but no one said you can’t start sooting with a pellet gun. I did.

[@jatpack3]

Alloy pellets are much more expensive than you think.

[@LostBeetle]

@@jatpack3 Nobody should be buying alloy pellets if they want maximum accuracy. Lead wins in this department.

[@another3997]

​@@LostBeetle It's almost certain that lead pellets contain traces of other metals too, in other words, they are alloys.

[@LostBeetle]

@@another3997 Stop it.

[@f1r3hunt3rz5]

Me, with my cheap toy manual-cocking spring-powered BB gun: _"I concur with the statements of this gentleman."_

[@keithh5390]

I absolutely loved my Red Rider BB gun (never shot my eye out!), so much so that when my son was old enough I gave him one for his birthday.

[@legion162]

I think another possible reason (I've done no research) could be "real guns" are heavily regulated or restricted in many countries around the world. I vaguely remember in the early 2000s the British pistol team had to go somewhere in Europe to practice due to uk firearms legislation

[@JaredAF]

mentioned at the end :)

[@legion162]

@@JaredAF yeah, just spotted it, KZbin must have been having a moment, or I may accidentally stopped the video with my sausage fingers 😂

[@Windcent]

Yep, here in Canada we cannot have any handgun firearms of any kind. Only rifles.

[@zen8791]

@@Windcentyeah what a joke.

[@osco4311]

Exactly. It's to avoid an awkward conversation about governments disarming their citizens.

[@dalitrh]

I love how he actually explains, not just click baits as the rest of KZbin is becoming.

[@jakubfabisiak9810]

Long story short - olympic class handguns are tack drivers. In the 10m air rifle competition, the "10" ring is 0.5mm wide, and the guns are so precise, scoring uses decimal points from 10.0 (if your 4.5mm wide pellet only clips the dot) to 10.9 (if you hit dead-center - a difference of 2.25 mm, under 1 MOA). The pistol competition is a lot more forgiving, with larger targets, but the precision is just as crazy - the pistol is literally capable of putting pellets through the same hole time, after time, after time. Also - the muzzle energy of an olympic .177 air pistol is 7.5J - you can easily practice indoors. Other competitions use .22lr (rimfire), or .32 long (centerfire).

[@hamingnu6610]

Exactly! People seem to not realize that it doesn't really matter what the guns are, even if they're seemingly 'easier', that only means the competition demanded is a lot stricter. If it's 'easier' to get close groups during target shooting with airguns, that's true as well for your competition. It's the same discussion with people arguing about the merits of recurve bows vs. compound bows; I shoot a recurve, but people keep asking "the compound bows are pointless, they're so much easier" - but people forget that at these levels, if it IS easier to shoot longer distance or with more accuracy, that's true for the competition, and thus the competition is closer. At the end of it all, it's just competition. The competition gets tighter if the device is seemingly 'easier' at these levels of sport.

[@HanSolo__]

cm

[@jakubfabisiak9810]

@@HanSolo__ I was talking about the 10m rifle target. There the 10 is .5mm wide. The pistol target is some 14cm outer ring iirc.

[@ernie5229]

The 10m target? If you can't hit a 10m target there is something wrong with you. That is over 30 feet!

[@RobertWalker-kv9hn]

@@ernie5229 Have you tried shooting a 10 metre air pistol match, it may be only 33 feet but it is 60 shots in 1 hour 45 sec not very physical but mentally draining

[@jobervelasco8614]

It's unfortunate how many shooting events we've lost from the Olympics over the decades for various reasons. Free pistol, running target, 50m prone, 300 meter rifle. I still shoot some of the non-Olympic events still including 300m free and standard rifle. Modern Pentathlon is even worse. Thankfully ISSF is a seperatw organization. The Pentathlon World Governing Body (UIPM) has gone from centerfire pistols, to .22 pistols, to air pistols, and in 2016 for the Rio Olympics they started using laser pistols for the shooting stages. Part if the decision was to not have to build single use venues for certain events. The shooting part of Modern Pentathlon in Rio was done at the Field Hockey pitch and they were able to seat spectators directly behind the targets as there was no danger to them with the laser pistols.

[@patrickriarchy6054]

There could have been a danger to their eyes maybe?.

[@jobervelasco8614]

@@patrickriarchy6054 lasers are infrared. Just like a TV remote control. No danger.

[@patrickriarchy6054]

@@jobervelasco8614 Oh ok, that makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification.

[@amosmoses5630]

​@jobervelasco8614 it doesn't matter which section of the electromagnetic spectrum the EM radiation is coming from, the intensity is what matters.

[@LNVACVAC]

The olympic comittee is part of the anti-gun pseudopascifist lobby. Not only they are not interested in having any relatioship with defensive disciplines or defense related equipment, but also they intend on sanitizing every martial art to the point of eliminating its combat efficacy. Just look at how karate, boxe and taekwondo are being destroyed. This has been so obvious for the past 40 years that sport confederations and associations openly decided to keep distance from the olympics in order to safeguard the disciplines.

[@Segphalt]

People who hate on airguns fail to consider one simple thing. I can go out in my back yard any day of the year in the city limits and get some trigger time in and no one even bats an eye when they realize its an air gun even when shooting something as "military" looking as an impact mk3. Obviously you need a decent backstop or woodline but thats not that hard to come by in alot of places even when renting. Completely disregarding the cost comparison of getting a similar ammount of trigger time in with "real guns" even with something as cheap as 22lr if you lived somewhere that was feasible.

[@spldrong]

Not in New Jersey!

[@shovelhead108]

Discharging an airgun within city limits is a crime in more cities than not.

[@alanm.335]

Not in CA. Over here we have a lot of Karen-type of people who call the police on you for using an airgun in your own yard. Police barely understand the law here, so you'll get in trouble for their ignorance and will have to hop a few hurdles just to prove that you are not a danger to yourself or others. I own both air and gunpowder, but this state sucks. Home defense. But in my area there are no facilities nearby where I can use an airgun to practice the sport. California sucks. 😕

[@Segphalt]

@@shovelhead108 Name 30. Then all of us here will know where to avoid.

[@Segphalt]

@@alanm.335 I can't help anyone in a nanny state, there are a sea of states where this may not apply and have the bonus barriers of obtaining a firearm or shooting them. In none of them is using an air gun more onerous than a traditional firearm. I can't shoot a 22lr pistol in my back yard where I currently live. I can shoot a 22 airgun all day and not only is it not illegal no one will give a shit. From a proportional perspective this will ring true basically everywhere in the country.

[@chetawanung-adjmagool9967]

Saw a picture of a "metal rose" that formed from pellets hitting exactly the same spot dozens of time that the metal fuses and flares into layers of petals, goes to show how otherworldly accurate air guns can be.

[@garymiedema642]

You articulate your subjects and topics well. Thankyou.

[@Jake_Kern]

Very well done video as always. Now I can reference a credible pistol shooter instead of just saying "No... the 1911 isn't the perfect target gun..." thank you 🙏

[@nathanielyoungman4454]

The perfect target gun is a useless novelty. Guns are tools with an entirely separate purpose than whatever this crap is.

[@PvtEd]

@@nathanielyoungman4454 oh look. its mr. dick.

[@agricola]

Really good air pistol shooters are impressive the same way really good ping pong players are impressive.

[@bensmith4563]

1911 is a fantastic gun for making a man stop trying to cause you harm but it's awful for shooting a dime at 36 feet 20 times in a row

[@Jake_Kern]

@nathanielyoungman4454 The perfect target gun allows for 0 flaws in the fundamentals of your shooting skills. It's almost like it's an example of the best of the best of the core values of the "sport" and not practical defense in a North American sense. Kinda like how the Olympics is the best of the best in a "sporting" capacity. I can ace 1000yrd targets with my PRS rifle all day. I doubt you, or me are printing dime size groups with a .177 air "gun"

[@lucascosta-mr4mr]

What you said about fundamentals is priceless! I got top 5 and my brother got top 2 in our first shooting competition using a revolver that my brother received from the police to use on duty. The only thing we did differently was practice a lot with a Beeman P17 air pistol, tool that other shooters considered just a toy, in Brasil guns are heavily regulated and much more expensive so brazilian gun guys only practice a few times a month.

[@JaredAF]

💯💯I cut a portion out where I spoke about how someone who practices with an air pistol before being able to get a real one will be way ahead of a lot of people

[@TheGrenadier97]

Beeman P17 no Brasil? Anotado.

[@lucascosta-mr4mr]

@@TheGrenadier97 na época foi só 400 reais, usamos chumbinho snyper 4.5 que é bom e barato

[@TheGrenadier97]

Excelente, obrigado

[@Nothv13]

The fundamentals of the olympic air pistol and rifle are vastly different than real firearms. Even one handed with a real firearm you wouldn't have a stance like they do. Air rifles get even goofier. Fundamentals isn't simply understanding sight picture and how to aim, but stance (typically taught before being taught proper aiming)and no firearms instructor will ever tell you to take a stance like those Olympic air pistol and air rifle contestants. Can you use an air rifle and pistol to get actual firearm fundamentals? Yes. Is the Olympic sport an example of such? Hell no. The number of people I see trying to mimic the Olympic air rifle and pistol fundamentals at ranges is just saddening.

[@Ihasanart]

Another aspect to the air vs spicy powder equation is with the amount of shooting athletes do you get no airborne particulate exposure to lead with airguns whereas with spicy powder based freedom dispensers you need to consider the hygiene and health requirements of lead exposure, predominantly from primers, which necessitates proper HVAC systems and extra equipment and cost for every venue and athlete involved.

[@JaredAF]

Great point! Didn't even cross my mind but that's correct

[@Predator42ID]

Or, you could do it outside, with, angled steel sheets leading into a sand trap with a ready-made berm behind that. Total cost, a lot cheaper than tracks, swimming pools, and other venues. The best part is that it can easily be removed once the event ends.

[@Ihasanart]

@@Predator42ID Which still leads to lead exposure for competitors (people who are shooting a million+ rounds a year) on top of the environmental maintenance required for cleaning the land and range, the projies don't cease to exist when they hit a bern and this isn't the glorious 60's where you could just pour old engine oil onto some gravel in your backyard to 'clean it up'.

[@Ihasanart]

@@Predator42ID >Okay, lead exposure comes from inhaling lead dust Wrong, it comes from inhaling vaporised lead from lead styphnate in lead based primers. It very much is a concern when shooting outdoors, just a reduced one compared to indoors.

[@Vilakazi]

Is naming a gun "spicy powder freedom dispensers" dependent on who is using it, ie American or can a Vietcong commie who, just gave a yank mean headshot, call his gun a freedom dispenser aswell?

[@LetatDuPont]

If you send me to the Olympics with a Hi Point Yeet Cannon im sure as hell gonna bag gold for the US🇺🇸

[@JaredAF]

just imagine the target is your opps?

[@LetatDuPont]

@@JaredAF gonna aim it sideways too for better recoil management🗣️

[@jamesmccheyne3243]

Your mom would be so proud of you.

[@donaldscobie8455]

And why haven't you?

[@MrFantasticMunch]

​@@donaldscobie8455 ----- joke-----> your head

[@alphawolf6708]

I feel like theres also other factors with using the air gun like theres no ricochet or fragmentation that can injure after it hits a hard wall, so there wont be too much space being used up in the building trying to stop the large bullet, and the fact that the target is only as big as a quarter cent.

[@456MrPeople]

Rubber ammunition exists like Federal Syntech.

[@divVerent]

Ricochets definitely happen, especially with weak BB pistols - but they rarely ever injure you even if you get hit. Main worry is "you'll shoot your eye out, you'll shoot your eye out", so do wear eye protection. The airgun ricochets that did hit me in the past were comparable to getting hit by a .22 casing you just fired - except not hot. Basically mostly harmless.

[@Divided-we-fall]

The PCP air pistols used in tournaments can exceed .22 FPE and projectile speeds..

[@robgrey6183]

I shoot regularly at an indoor range near my place in Wyoming. With modern materials the backstop requirements for even high power rifle cartridges is neither bulky nor excessively heavy. I've seen it. I use it regularly. But, you keep pushing the narrative that it is somehow impractical.

[@ramonlijauco7563]

@@divVerent In my younger years, we used pellet catchers behind the targets for .177 and .22 airgun pellets.

[@MotorcycleWrites]

Olympic fencing uses tiny little stand-ins for weapons which require tons of skill to use. Olympic running tracks are precision-built prepped surfaces, not something you would ever run on in the real world. It makes sense that air pistol uses super accurate stand-ins for firearms. If you want to measure the pure skill of an athlete without regard for external conditions, randomness imposed by their equipment, etc. you’ll have to sacrifice some of the spectacle. If you prefer a more “realistic” representation of the sport there are plenty of normal shooting competitions in the world.

[@WheelgunsOnWheels]

I’m continually impressed by your depth and breadth of knowledge. I’m glad I’ve found your channel.

[@ILuvRum]

His presentation is disingenuous at best

[@aidandedecker4246]

Simping for Indians

[@johnthomson2377]

As someone who grew up doing Olympic style air rifle shooting, I can confirm this as 100% true.

[@ILuvRum]

As someone who grew up shooting and competing in Olympic style four position small bore and rapid fire pistol I can confirm that it is 100% UNTRUE.

[@ianbelanger7459]

While the technical aspects of the air rifles and pistols are accurate, those characteristics have almost nothing to do with the transition from the military style arms used in the pre-war Olympics to the current target air guns used today. The change was driven by cultural pressure and a drive for a more measurable Olympics. The cultural pressures for disarmament are really regardless of the debates about why. There is also a cultural push to separate the Olympic events from the military origins through abstraction and nomenclature. Lastly, the rules for the Olympics are designed to limit the number of skills being measured (the preference is one) and to suppress the influence of technology or novel methodology. Air rifles and pistols are a logical outcome of these pressures. If we are being honest, the best measurement of the shooting skill for the Olympics would be identical laser devices with peronalized weights and grips.

[@johnthomson2377]

@@ianbelanger7459 yes. I know this. It is important to distinguish it as a sport, but a valuable one nonetheless that can still be used to teach at least some basic firearms skills.

[@ianbelanger7459]

@@johnthomson2377 if transferable shooting skill is the goal, there is agreement. The usefulness of those skill is far more debatable depending on country and personal resources. For most people, the question is moot because access to practical arms is very limited. For Americans, it probably comes down to availability because Olympic shooting is not as common as other shooting games.

[@McLOVIN-vf7tp]

​@@johnthomson2377basic firearms skills? Have you seen how they shoot rifles in the olympics? Good luck translating that into a .308

[@okawesome5596]

A useful analogy is Olympic fencing. A fencing foil, epee or saber resembles a fighting sword and can kind of hurt someone but you wouldn’t consider it to be a weapon.

[@federigonumpty1213]

The only gun guy worth watching as far as I'm concerned. Absolutely love his level of knowledge and eloquence. Keep up the great work.

[@PreyofBird]

Liking this channel more and more. Not enough regular young guys like us making this kind of stuff. Love the acoustic base in the background

[@JaredAF]

not an acoustic bass but thanks

[@alexpascal5403]

Dope

[@IlIlllIllIlIIIll]

It's so disappointing to see a great explainer video immediately bring out hateful, barely relevant comments. You made good points in the video.

[@Sidlurker]

I’m not sure you watched the same video I did? He was perfectly respectable.

[@Piggiesgomoomoo]

⁠comment section probably, not the video

[@harveyknguyen]

​@@Sidlurkerhe's talking about the comments

[@stickman3214]

The more knowledgeable a presenter, the more butthurt the "REAL GUN GUYS" become, because they realize how little they actually know outside of owning three ARs

[@nicholasdoe5017]

Dead internet, comments are bots

[@terry_willis]

Outstanding video. To the point. No needless intros. No annoying background music. No filler jokes to hold our attention. No silly pop up pictures in corner of screen or sound effects. Clearly and logically explained topic material and spoke very clearly - easy to understand. Way under 10 minutes (my maximum time I allow for any video - if it takes more than 10 minutes it needs editing.). I wish I could give more than one thumbs up. Great job.

[@kloa4219]

guntube community is horrible ngl

[@hes1shot671]

I really want a 3 gun event in the Olympics, it’s be more interesting.

[@hamingnu6610]

It was probably something feasible and even desired a few decades ago, but as with a lot of sports with enough demand, they'll fragment because specialized athletic competitions are just gonna be more competitive than their general predecessors. I'm not saying that suddenly something like artistic gymnastics (for example) is suddenly gonna turn into 5 different competitions, but that's what usually happens eventually for a lot of multi-use events that have a big enough following and supply of athletes. Guns are definitely in demand enough, thus I imagine a 3-gun event in the Olympics is just gonna eventually be dissolved and re-fragmented anyways. But indeed, it'd be cool because it'd be like a 'generalist' competition; perhaps regional gun competitions can let such a format be more common. (Though specialized competitions are still gonna be more appealing to most non-olympic athletes because... You don't need to buy and train for three different guns)

[@hes1shot671]

@@hamingnu6610 nah I see, and yea that very true😅

[@mrsoisauce9017]

6:42 wouldn't be surprised if it does return, but only for LA in 2028. Here in America, I'll be damned if we don't have those facilities to contain that kind of power

[@RobertWalker-kv9hn]

Don't get your hopes up even though there are many shooting sports that can be shot at the Olympics it is California can you see them doing anything but the minimum it will be Air guns unless there is some way to force the American Olympic body to have a proper shooting competition, The 300 metre 3P and Centrefire 25 Metre Pistol would be my choices.

[@maximilianmustermann5763]

About the locations for shooting air guns - the German DSB (subsidiary of ISSF) does an "Oktoberfest-Shoot" every year at Oktoberfest in Munich and the shooting takes place inside the Schützenzelt-tent on the first floor. Couldn't do that with real firearms... I go there every year with a couple of friends from the club because when you take part in the competition, you're getting the trip sponsored by DSB and they have tables booked for shooters in the exclusive vip area of the tent. We usually don't shoot air pistol, but the shooting translates really well from .22lr sport pistol. We're always joking that our group is probably the best group of air pistol shooters out of all people who don't own air pistols.

[@ramonlijauco7563]

I suppose you get to use pistol-pump Feinwerkbau .177 pistols there. Nice guns.

[@Nappylox71]

Holy cow. This has got to be one of the best videos I have ever watched. Someone I know was asking this very question the other day.

[@TheGrenadier97]

The recent videos on competition shooting etc. are very interesting and right in context. Fine content.

[@danielpope6498]

Just be glad they have .22 and airpistols at all. The pentathalon is using laser pistols. Also folks, the attention these athletes are getting at the games right now might very well be bringing newcomers to the sport/hobby. Try to to run them off with toxic nonsense like claiming you are better than olympic athletes because you shoot "real guns". You should want people to get interested in and enjoy your hobby, not run them off by being arrogant and demeaning.

[@jmkhenka]

Lasers has been discussed ad nauseum due to politics. But it would remove the sports entirely. Im happy we have biathlon ski shooting in sweden and its a REAL popular sport. Would they go from 22LR (they used to shoot 6.5x55 at 300m) to lasers, no-one would be intrested in the sport any longer - there is something seeing strikes on the targets and shooters having to manualy cycle and reload the files.

[@danielpope6498]

@jmkhenka yeah im not sure why they went to lasers in the pentathalon. Apparently they are getting rid of the horses in pentathalon too so I suspect that event will be removed completely before too long. There is certainly something to be said for events that are specifically military derived, like the biathlon, using real firearms. I can understand the pragmatism behind moving away from centerfire, but at some point you will have become so removed from tradition that it becomes inauthentic and, as you say, people simply won't be interested. Could you imagine showing up to an F1 race and finding out they no longer use real cars, its all just done in realistic simulators? Hopefully this is understood well enough that they will keep using actual projectiles and not switch to lasers.

[@ILuvRum]

@@danielpope6498 Used to be my favorite event. Yep it'll be gone. Too much "testosterone" on display in that sport for the public good.

[@ericchism4855]

@@danielpope6498 I am confident that the best American pistol shooters could do just as well or better with their 9mm in the 25m rapid-fire air pistol. 25m = 27 yards or about 40 feet. Real guns, real recoil, they would do just as well or better.

[@jakubfabisiak9810]

@@ericchism4855 they could do

[@carabinapacifista5627]

The Turkish meme got me into a rabbit hole of Olympic style pistol shooting and your channel is by far the best one on this. While skill matters more than gear, I am selling my Glock 19 and buying a 9mm 1911 to start training more marksmanship than the tactical style shooting I am used to.

[@JaredAF]

Beretta 92 could serve you well in both aspects!

[@carabinapacifista5627]

@@JaredAFTried it. I liked it but I am not fond of the grip. Cool gun though!

[@Skinflaps_Meatslapper]

@@carabinapacifista5627 Don't bother with the 1911, Sig P210 all the way, either a -5 or -6. I'd trade my STI for one of those any day of the week.

[@ace_does_internet_stuff1817]

A thing people always seem to forget, as someone who has shot competetive air gun matches along with regular marksmanship competitions, the skillset is the same as a normal gun. You need to be able to aim properly, focus, hold steady enough, and have a knowledge of whats happening throughout the process of your shot. Also with this you are looking for the most accurate shot, not recoil mitigation, follow up shots, or combat training. Its the most precise shot you can really get. Thats really what this is about. We practiced in the basement of a dance hall without issue. With even just a 22, there are so many more issues that most people have a hard time dealing with. Safety, ammunition aquisition and transport, firearm training and certification, even just finding a place to shoot. That makes training and actual competitions so much harder to have and to get into. People may not think its a real gun, but it is. It may not have the same force behind each shot as a gunpowder propelled projectile, but I've used it for pest control, and they work fine. In fact because of my training for competition, I'm able to hit plates from over 150 yards with iron sights on my .22 (other ammo is too expensive to plink with leave me alone), which is something I was never able to do before. Dont look down on air guns. They have a different purpose and will help your general form and execution of shooting, for a lot cheaper than regular ammunition. Just because it has a different purpose doesnt mean its worse.

[@StuninRub]

The is zero skill translation from shooting airsoft and a real gun.

[@amagicmuffin1191]

how?

[@929Finn]

​@@StuninRubairguns are not airsoft if that is what you are implying.

[@StuninRub]

@@929Finn They are.

[@avixs1543]

@@StuninRub The fact you think Airsoft and Airguns are the same shows you're level of understanding, or lack there of... To put it in simple terms... your a moron whos either never shoot a real gun or never shoot an Airgun ( Airsoft Doesnt count ), Ive shoot both, I can tell you they arent that different, You Aim, Pull the trigger and get a small kick and a projectile down range... Its like shooting a .22 but slightly less kick and alot less noise.

[@TheFireMaker117]

Most people forget accuracy isnt just hitting the target. Precision is how close an individual shot is. Consistency is how often you can get that close. Accuracy is when you can combine these over and over.

[@Flight042]

While I understand your intent. Achtually, ✋🤓precision is how close shots are to one another (grouping) while accuracy is how close they are to the intended target. Both are defined scientific terms. Consistency also goes by another term of repeatability. Tldr: "Accuracy" technically is just hitting the target as it is independent of precision and repeatability.

[@sxeychick9622]

@@Flight042I was just about the comment this. OP clearly hasn’t taken a math class past algebra 1.

[@klikkolee]

In my jurisdiction (Washington State), a bow is legally a firearm, so there are probably jurisdictions where an air gun is legally a firearm

[@NewGoldStandard]

"Real guns, I'm a real man. I shoot a .45, right?" My girlfriend shoots a .45. Eh, well, my Grandpappy's.45. Really enjoying your channel, thank you.

[@ramonlijauco7563]

I had occasion, for a couple of years, to train with a .177 Feinwerkbau piston pump air pistol. With resized pellets, the level of accuracy was great. The ability to do so many shots with inexpensive ammunition improved my pistol accuracy with firearms. Back in the martial law era (Marcos Sr regime), gunpowder ammunition was extremely hard and expensive to obtain.

[@yootoobvyooer]

I'm waiting for nonsense comment "you're wrong, my yeet cannon has fixed barrel, they can use that".

[@bulletsandbread]

Excellent explanation man! The more shooting disciplines you learn the more you can respect the marksmanship that goes into everything be it Airpistol, IPSC/USPSA, Precisions Rifle. It's great seeing all the knowledge and skill out there.

[@Ultrasecond77]

Another fine edutainment video from my boy Jared. Keep it up man I love this type of content. informational and fun to watch. 👍

[@courier665]

Ever since the Olympic shooting memes came out a bunch of people have come out showing how little they know about accuracy and precision shooting claiming "I play with real guns not bb guns" and failing to understand what real accuracy is and then showing videos of people shooting steel at like 10-20 yards.

[@ultraguy14]

They're still essentially expensive bb guns though

[@courier665]

@@ultraguy14 And what's your point?

[@ultraguy14]

@@courier665 that they're bb guns. You literally just read it.

[@ItsDainsleifDuh]

​@@ultraguy14 and what's your point?

[@ultraguy14]

@@ItsDainsleifDuh They're bb guns. They're not "real" guns because they're fundamentally different on basically every level. Might as well argue why sling shots aren't guns.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

We have firearms, airguns, waterguns now we just need earthguns and we can make a new Avatar series 🗿

[@foolicooli]

Well, well, well, why didn't he just shoot it side ways for gold?!😂

[@bernardkung7306]

Not a gun owner, not a shooter -- but this video was still interesting and informative. Well done.

[@dillonc7955]

If they brought 9mm guns into the olympics, it would be hard to get trigger time with them in countries with strict gun laws/control to raise some eyebrows about how lucky we have it in the US. To make it fair, they stick to air guns and .22 LR so it's accessible to most people in the world.

[@JohnMaxGriffin]

This is the real reason. It’s not about accuracy or anything else like that. It’s about accessibility.

[@Industry-insider]

Lame as fuck, they can be excluded

[@neerajnongmaithem392]

​@@JohnMaxGriffinaccessibility always the most part for Olympics

[@pihlajafox]

Sure buddy, it's because we all jealous

[@Dayao12]

This is the only reason that seemed to make sense. All the rest in this clip seems very nitpickish... Not even mentioning how the round pellet negates all that seem to be positives with an air rifle. Maybe I just don't know sh*t..

[@mendozaconsultation]

Lewis and Clark used a Girandoni Repeating Air Rifle, also known as the Windbüchse, on their expedition to explore the Louisiana Purchase in 1803. The rifle was designed by Italian inventor Bartolomeo Girandoni around 1779. The Girandoni was a .46-caliber, four-foot-long, 10-pound pneumatic weapon with a removable metal air tank that could fire 22 lead balls in rapid succession. It had a gravity-fed tubular magazine and 12-groove ratchet rifling in the bore. The rifle came with three detachable air reservoirs that required about 1,500 strokes of a pump to fully pressurize. Each reservoir had a specialized valve to prevent air from escaping, and the rifle could fire roughly 40 shots before its muzzle velocity suffered. Lewis and Clark used the Girandoni in a variety of ways, including impressing tribes with its power and helping them pass safely through hostile areas. An original Girandoni military pattern rifle of the type used by Lewis and Clark is on exhibit at the NRA National Sporting Arms Museum in Springfield, MO.

[@Deanosaurous]

MY DADDY KILT SEVENTY NASIS IN 42 N DIDNT NEEED NO AIR N WAS JUS AS ACCURATE N GOOD MY WIFE BARB LEFT ME GOBBLESS

[@Thealixermixer]

what the fuck...

[@stickman3214]

​@@ThealixermixerRELAX MILLENNIAL, WE CALL THAT "OLE FASHION HUMOR" AND WE DIDJT NEED NO "SNOW FLAKES!"

[@Thealixermixer]

@@stickman3214 what the hell are you guys smoking(and can i have some?)

[@datadavis]

GOBLESS BORTHER AMEN!

[@Flesh-Automaton]

Spot on depiction of your average boomer fud

[@keithh5390]

As a counterpoint to the consistency of air pistols, I would be interested in a black power or muzzle loading event. I think it would showcase not only the accuracy for the shooting, but also how consistent the shooter could be loading such a firearm.

[@Fragger-1]

I see these comments constantly especially when it comes to the biathlon. Meal Team Six loves seeing Biathlon rifles and saying "No thanks, I'd rather use my grandpappy's 10/22." What they don't realize is that at it's best, a 10/22's moa is large enough that even with perfect aim in the dead center, they'd actually miss. The whole "give em a real gun with real recoil" idea isn't the bombshell people think it is. Of course they'd do worse, you're giving them equipment that's literally not up to the job. I think many people don't process issues like velocities and extreme spread. Airguns are generally subsonic. You don't have to worry about your round becoming transonic at any point. Even out of a pistol, you can lose quite a lot of accuracy due to a round become transonic and destabilizing. This is actually a very common issue, especially if your ammo is inconsistently loaded, even in shorter distance shooting. It's especially problematic for precision handgun shooting, since many pistols don't burn enough powder for a round to remain supersonic for very long. Extreme spread is a big problem. That's the difference in your highest velocity, and your lowest velocity rounds. The velocity of many common calibers and loadings can vary by a few hundred FPS. Many airguns have reduced that difference to single digits. Getting extreme spread as low ass possible just makes your rounds more consistent, and allows you to know exactly where that round will go. Your sights are aligned for a specific distance, a specific velocity, and a specific amount of drop. That whole equation gets thrown out the window if your round is faster or slower than expected, and makes your impact location change from your expected location. Consistency is everything in precision shooting. It doesn't matter how skilled you are if your gun or ammo isn't up to the task. Besides, at the end of the day, competitions being accessible to everyone is what keeps a large and healthy community. Airguns keep competition available, pretty regardless of the firearms policies in any country. As gun enthusiasts, shouldn't we want to bring as many passionate people into our community and hobby as we possibly can?

[@Patrick-857]

I get looked down on by gun owners I know for shooting airgun field target all the time. Some people get it, some don't. We shoot low powered 4.5mm airguns in wind, from 9 to 50 metres, with random distance targets that we aren't allowed to know the distance to, and range finders aren't allowed. I'd love to see these guys try.

[@Fragger-1]

@@Patrick-857 It's funny to me because people love talking shit about precision airgun shooting, but have never tried it. It's not as easy as people think, especially when following the competitive standards. People shouldn't particularly talk shit if they haven't tried it, and especially can't do better. Some air gun shooters are genuinely some of the best shooters I've seen. Besides, nice airguns are really fun. Especially the really nice bolt actions with suppressors. They are comically quiet, and it's hard to not giggle as a gun guy when plinking targets with one. I don't know why people act like you can't enjoy both

[@ILuvRum]

When you talk air gun competition vs firearm competition you are talking to separate and distinct sports. And if your assertion, is you want to include more people, why eliminate firearms? Why not keep both? I'll tell you why, because a world where average citizens are denied firearms, is a safer place for tyrants.

[@theotherohlourdespadua1131]

​@@ILuvRumIn many countries, airguns are treated the same as actual bullet-and-firepin firearms and thus are just as regulated. With that sort of legal (lack of) distinction, why push the idea that the airgun folks are pushing away the firearms folks...

[@ILuvRum]

@@theotherohlourdespadua1131 Its not a matter of legality, it's a matter of lethality and that scares people who want control over other people. Air gun folks? If that means those that have a phobia over firearms, then that's why. I have nothing against those that like and use air guns, I do. I do have a problem with people who seek to diminish and restrict firearms ownership/use/acceptance.

[@GuyInc0gnit0]

Man you're putting out so much great information! This video alone gave me lots of new info and perspective! Thank you!! You're definitely in a league of your own when it comes to "gun channels"! No nonsene - real education.

[@JeffreyEpstein-f6y]

I really like this guy.

[@JaredAF]

👀

[@JackalGames]

I think most people, at least most gun people, asking this question understand that air guns and .22s are easier to maintain accuracy with. That’s a big part of why I and so many others would love to see a 9mm or .45 class at the Olympics alongside what they have. It’s far more challenging and frankly, more interesting to watch imo. I love that they have clay shooting with shotguns, but I’d love it more if almost everyone competing wasn’t almost perfect. It could be more challenging. But I think the bigger reasons the Olympics haven’t included larger calibers are cost, safety, and noise.

[@user-by7hj4dj9s]

its not challenging it's random, we want the pinnacle of accuracy not roulette

[@Peluceus]

So what I'm hearing is the Makarov is a competition pistol

[@mapgeek6]

I recently (~7 months ago) got my first 0.177 PCP air pistol. When I go to the range, I sure get a lot of strange stares. I show up in a Depeche Mode T-Shirt carrying what looks like a heavy duty bicycle pump (I don't have a SCUBA tank yet). No camo in sight. Let's just say I don't exactly fit the typical profile. My reasons for an air gun is that I don't plan on hunting, wanted something that wouldn't scare my wife with recoil, noise, potentially life-threatening danger, and smoke if she comes along with me. I quite like my air pistol. It's quiet, it's way more accurate than I am, doesn't recoil, and I get to be the odd man out at the range. I've really enjoyed watching the events in the Olympics, and understanding part of what I'm seeing makes it more exciting.

[@rsd3719]

rifles pretty much all have fixed barrels, also revolvers have fixed barrels.

[@Sadler2010]

and many semi autos pistols do too, ahem Makarov is one of many with fixed barrels.

[@another3997]

Clearly he is talking about the design of MOST automatic pistols, not EVERY type of firearm ever made. There are always exceptions, that doesn't invalidate the general rule.

[@megazombiekiller9000]

@@another3997It is a completely disingenuous point to make though as it’s not a problem with other competition firearms. “We can’t use real firearms because this specific subset of them isn’t perfect” is dumb. Most air guns aren’t Olympic air guns either. Locked breach has nothing to do with accuracy and a properly locked breach on a fixed barrel would give you more precision than an unlocked breach. They could just as easily be using Thompson center pistols that drive dimes out to 100 yards. His point about propellant burning different and controlling gunpowder amounts is also really moot as reloading and extremely accurately tracking your powder is part of the sport of firearm marksmanship. No top competitors just use store bought ammo. I’m not saying the Olympics has to use “real guns” but this guy is wrong about a lot in this video.

[@h1tsc4n40]

I found that point so weird, especially because there are plenty of competition precision rifles out there which absolutely outdo these airguns for consistency within their range (which is usually 1km) Like, the real reason is politics and pressure. I'm not saying they should use real guns in the olympics, they can keep using airguns, but there is no need to make up reasons for it.

[@JaredAF]

Well if you watched the video you'd see I then go onto to talk about fixed barrel pistols/rifles, before explaining the inherent inconsistency of cartridge based firearms at least in comparison to air pistols/rifles.

[@pret5097]

The question is less of “why air pistols are used in Olympics instead of normal firearm” but why a competitive shooting like IPSC isn’t represented in the Olympics.. I personally see much more value in competitive shooting like IPSC which requires real-life skills to operate firearm while on move, rather than still posing shooting air stuff for ultimate pin-point accuracy in artificial conditions.

[@Sei783]

Also, a mag fed firearm loses pressure as the slide opens. It may be negligible, but you won't have that on an air pistol that has a closed system throughout the entire firing process. It's the same principle behind why bolt action rifles tend to be more accurate over greater distances than semi automatic rifles.

[@Nikolai_brrrr]

i think a good point is also. for they purpose it is enough. shooting on a target on 10 or 25m, you dont need a bullet who can travel hundreds of meter and still have an huge amount of energy. Its like shooting with canons on birds.

[@h1tsc4n40]

Realistically, It's about accessibility. Most countries simply do not allow their citizens to use firearms.

[@tdbla98]

You just taught me something i didnt know about my own 22lr. This is awesome. Great video dude

[@aloha67580]

Meanwhile me at olympics with 17th century Blunderbuss

[@Aderon]

I remember taking a school trip to the US Olympic training center in the Springs, and one of the detractors from the experience was that they were using some sort of cartridge firing gun for the range that day, and while they were clearly dinky enough that they weren't concerned about the noise, I just couldn't enjoy the experience because it turns out something in whatever propellent they were using (not sure which variety of smokeless propellant) was just setting my nose off and I could not stop sneezing. So yeah, I much prefer the watching experience of airguns where I don't need to worry about sneezing through the entire thing.

[@arithmetech]

100% disagree on "recoil doesn't matter at all." This morning our illustrious champion, Simone Biles, fell off the balance beam :( Staying on that thing is a core consideration pro level gymnasts probably manage in their sleep, or while eating a bowl of cereal, or while texting, or while working on their Tekken combos. They still have to manage it though, and even though it's not the biggest variable in the world to gymnasts at that level, the slightest momentary lapse in concentration can allow it to pop up and ruin your run. As you know, with pistol shooting, it isn't the recoil itself so much as the anticipation of recoil that causes problems we all have to learn to manage. The anticipation may cause a shooter to 1) tense up slightly just before the trigger breaks, pulling the shot up and to the opposite side from the trigger finger, or 2) yank the trigger instead of calmly pressing through the break. Either of these issues would 100% keep you off the podium. While I wouldn't expect a pro shooter to have a lapse in concentration leading to one of these issues, it could happen. After all, THE Biles just fell off the balance beam :( Other than that, this is another one of those cool JaredAF info bombs that's pushing me towards figuring out how to get ahold of one of these air pistols. I imagine that trigger has to be crisp as hell, and less maintenance sounds great. It's always exciting to learn something new, and this looks like a lot of fun. Thanks!

[@Skinflaps_Meatslapper]

Anticipating the shot and pulling it off target still happens, even with zero recoil. At this level of precision, it has nothing to do with recoil and everything to do with that tiniest bit of unintended movement. Maybe you pulled a hair too late and the gun went off after you were expecting it to, maybe you were rushing the shot, maybe you're having trouble getting the gun on the sweet spot and decided to pull anyway, any number of things causes it...but recoil, or the lack thereof, is not at the root of it. That may be the case for inexperienced or average shooters, but there's a point where that ceases to be a contributing factor, but anticipating the shot will forever be a part of shooting at any skill level. The best shooters simply succumb to that issue less often, because I guarantee that every shooter at the Olympics this year had at least one shot they pulled or did feel good to them. It's the mental aspect of forcing that shot and the pressure of a single mistake costing you the entire competition.

[@arithmetech]

@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper it really doesn't happen in the same way at all. When you've got an actual explosion going off at the end of your reach, there is a very different psychological effect at play leading to flinching. It isn't anticipating the shot. It's specifically anticipating the explosion and the recoil. Then the yanking of the trigger is usually an attempt to preemptively control muzzle flip that results in cocking the wrist downward. That doesn't come into play in any way without actual recoil, because you know there's no jarring force to anticipate. I haven't shot **these** kinds of air guns, but every hayseed shoots pellet guns as a kid (and as an adult teaching kids how to use them) I can't speak to the Olympic format, but I can definitely speak to the inaccuracy of claiming recoil management is the same with air and "real" guns, and the inaccurate claim that "recoil doesn't matter at all." Note: none of what I've said here is meant to disparage the Olympic format. I think it's super cool and am making preparations to try my hand at learning it.

[@Skinflaps_Meatslapper]

@@arithmetech I'm a self proclaimed recoil junkie with a collection of pistols ranging from .45-70's, to rifle cartridge bolt action pistols, all the way up to a breech loading .50BMG (I'd love to have a 700NE handgun someday, but I'm pretty sure I'll have to make it myself). The massive fireballs that turn into fiery vortexes as they're heading downrange, the explosive concussion that you can feel in your chest and makes it feel like you have a momentary sinus infection, the sound that reverberates off every surface for miles around, the recoil that feels like this time you might have broken something in your wrist...I LIVE for that. On the other end of the spectrum, much like my specialty hand cannons, these air pistol also cost thousands, partially because of the precision necessary, and partially because they've invested a ton of research into recoil reduction. Yeah. Reducing recoil in a virtually recoil free .177cal air pistol. It's the complete opposite. If it weren't for the loud report they make, you wouldn't know they had been fired. The Steyr LP10 has a counterweight that flies rearward after a shot to counteract the force that the tiny pellet makes when its accelerated to 400ish fps, so the shooter feels no recoil whatsoever and can maintain a perfect sight picture for follow through. Why? So they know if they anticipated a shot, so they know if they did something wrong, and so they know how to address it. You often won't see that if you've got a bit of muzzle flip, it happens too fast...but if there is no muzzle flip, the gun will tell on you for your poor technique. And oh boy, does it tell on you. I put in about 12 years as an ISSF competitor shooting not just air pistol, but sport pistol, free pistol, and rapid fire pistol, with four of those years being on the development team, then the national team, and coaching new talent as they trickled in. Trust me when I say, pulling a shot happens regardless of whether there's an explosion happening or not. When you first start out shooting guns, sure, your take is spot on. It's a violent event, some people love it and some are surprised or scared to death of it. Once you get comfortable with what a gun does and begin target shooting in earnest, the concussive sound and felt recoil are truly inconsequential to the shot you make. Not many people advance that far into shooting to get to that point, but all the best shooters have. You're not concerned with what the gun is about to do when you pull the trigger, you're concerned with where that shot is going to go. A fraction of a second lapse in concentration is all that separates a perfect 10.9 and a miserable 6, and that one mistake can negate all the training you've put in for YEARS, your hopes and dreams, the expectations of an entire nation that you're representing, all the money you and others have spent on you to get there, you're putting it all on the line, and all of it can be erased between the span of a heartbeat because you squeezed that trigger a bit too early. Psychologically speaking, the muzzle blast doesn't even register compared to the fear of making a bad shot. They could start using laser pistols that fire silent invisible beams completely undetectable by human senses, and competitors would still have trouble anticipating a shot and screwing it up. The real testament of skill in a shooting competition is not who can handle the effects of a firearm best, it's who fought their own internal struggles best and had the most control over their mind and body. The physical skill of being able to control a gun and its recoil is akin to raw talent...it'll get you to the tryouts, but it won't win you any awards. Shooting, at its very core, is a psychological sport where you're at odds with yourself, not the gun.

[@arithmetech]

​@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper there are so many things wrong with this post I wouldn't even know where to start. In any case, with this sort of fundamentals 101 thing, there isn't really much to debate. I have a feeling this isn't actually a back and forth about recoil management at all, so I'm just going to agree with you and back away slowly from whatever I seem to have stepped in the middle of.

[@stvargas69]

Great explanation. As a fellow American who was long ago on a rifle team I enjoy the pursuit for accuracy. Its isn't always about big calibers and scary guns. Its about One hole in paper and all your projectiles going through it

[@ventischair9158]

Another thing you forgot to mention was the amount of wear and tear on the gun if they used 9mm and 45, which would be a detriment to training consistently if ur training for the olympics and having to clean and check parts

[@Patrick-857]

Yep, the sheer number of shots these athletes go through during a year's training would not only mean they're replacing barrels and other parts multiple times a year, but they're also going through insane amounts of money in ammo. I would argue that the Olympic shooting disciplines are probably the most difficult because of the absurdly high accuracy standards. To even qualify, you need to be hitting all 10s, and the difference between qualifying or not is potentially 0.001 of a mm.

[@JohnMaxGriffin]

⁠​⁠@@Patrick-857They’re not shooting 80,000 rounds a year through one gun. They definitely wouldn’t be replacing significant parts multiple times a year. Overall this is a minor consideration

[@ILuvRum]

Funny none of that mattered until they began replacing firearm events with air gun events.

[@Iceh4wkvideos]

Yeah no I promise you the wear and tear on the gun from the bullet is not the problem...

[@KSMvidcast]

That was a super interesting video. Even if they don't use firearms in the way they used to, it's still cool to see target shooting at the Olympics. If it's air guns or whatever, it still takes an incredible amount of control and skill to compete on that level.

[@occasionalshredder]

Though I must say it makes logical sense, an event like the Olympics not doing 300 rifle cause it’s “hard to setup” when people train for years to get good, almost goes against the nature of something Olympian.

[@JaredAF]

They still have 3 Position 50m and Prone 50m, it utilizes the same skills and takes the same level of skill to be proficient in them. And before someone says wind, within 300 meters the effects of wind are minimal with the calibers used in 300m competition.

[@occasionalshredder]

@@JaredAF oh that’s good at least, most shots are made within 50, it’d be interesting to still be able to see how proficient many are with long shots though.

[@JohnMaxGriffin]

⁠​⁠@@JaredAFThey’re not so minimal at 300m that they’re irrelevant at an Olympic level. At 50m maybe.

[@jobervelasco8614]

@@JaredAF 50m rifle prone was dropped from the Olympics after 2016 unfortunately. Wind reading is still definitely needed at 50m and 300m. Some people still use .223 at 300 meters since basically any centerfire caliber up to 8mm can be used. At 300m National at Minnesota, the locals who knew the wind conditions had a huge advantage. Everyone else had it rough, even with 6mm BR.

[@bigdaddychacha]

“Welcome to the Army! For the next 10 weeks during basic training, we are going to teach you to become the best shots we can with your assigned weapon. Your life, and the lives of all the men around you, will depend upon your marksmanship!” “Sir, so our weapons will be some of the most accurate in the world, right, Sir?” “No, not at all. We save the really accurate guns for the most important job in the world: the Olympic International Sport Shooting Federation 10 Meter Air gun event!” 😂😂😂

[@aydennuula979]

The way you say air guns are real guns gives "um acktually 🤓" energy. Besides that, good video.

[@lbochtler]

It comes down to various governments wanting to disarm their citizenry, thus want to delegitimize guns for sport. As for the higher accuracy argument, yes, that takes out a lot of the skill in their use. So i see it as an indult to shooting sport.

[@mangounchained2715]

I can hear the Fud tears hitting the floor lol

[@JaredAF]

muh foty fahv

[@dorklymorkly3290]

author was so butthurt he had to strawman 'real gun guys' before even receiving a single comment since the video was still in the making. And now rationalizes the backlash from that as 'fuddies'. Actual firearms have more weight and demand a trained body. Equalling more skill/fitness. Actual firearms have recoil due to the powerful explosion, and demand a steeled mind and good technique to compensate for that. Actual firearms come in fixed barrels too, like revolvers and the cartridges can be, and are heavily standardized due to them using measurable chemical components. (powder, etc) The catridges also have 'play' inside and thus are not as susceptible to temperature changes. You can stand in the shade, you can stand in the sun. But if the fully pressurized tank of an air gun gets heated, the pressure increases, if it gets cooled, it falls off. Much more variable. The measuring equipment of 'psi' is also not the most accurate, due to the same factors. but keep on sniffing your farts with your 'air gun's. I bet you scent em like butt, too, for maximum immersion.

[@kyubey8081]

@@dorklymorkly3290 Wow it's such a great honor to meet you here in the comments sir! It's not every day a person gets to meet the world record holder for "Guy with the smallest male appendage"!

[@dorklymorkly3290]

​@@kyubey8081 Very funny, 'air soft' bro. just don't get your little valve snagged on your briefs, lest your 'massive piece' deflates. And keep it away from women, their nails might pop it. Not that you have a problem with that part, but y'know. Safety first.

[@gaoth88]

Your arguments are as accurate as a firearm compared to an air rifle :b The dude has spoken to "gun guys" because everyone who has done an afternoon of shooting heard some brag about their caliber and how much of a big boy they were. All your stuff about steeling nerves and training your body flies out of the window if you see most good shooters are 50+ guys with a beer belly. The aim of the competition isn't to be a good soldier boy and shoot, but have steady aim and posture. You are thinking in bangs while they think in pure accuracy. If you let go of the bang then it makes sense.

[@Dan-qe2so]

Excellent summary. Very happy to see someone make quality content for our sport 🙌

[@khemib]

I was asking myself this question the other day

[@nigelgibbens9864]

The Olympic Games had great competition such as the running boar and dueling unfortunately we lost those competitions

[@-JohnnyRingo-]

7:52 Wait i thought you said that wasnt a firearm? Lololol

[@JaredAF]

oh god i was afraid i would have an instance where i mixed up the two words

[@-JohnnyRingo-]

@@JaredAF lolol well if it wasn't caught first by someone who's genuinely just joshin around then it would have and probably will be still caught and brought to your attention by some fkn ☝🏼🤓 "um actually" fkn l0s3r lol

[@toddstewart4579]

Dude, thanks for explaining all of this. I was always so curious.

[@Santa1936]

Recoil absolutely matters in single shot competitions. Yes the technique is THEORETICALLY the same if you're shooting an air gun, but the skill lies in maintaining that perfect technique when your brain knows a concussion is coming. And if the entire goal is to eliminate variables, we may as well just hook up the shooters to a bunch of pressure pads and accelerometers that measure their trigger control, follow through, and sight alignment. No need to shoot a gun at all!

[@Industry-insider]

That exact reason is why they would suck with a real gun, they’d shoot one round and be scared of it and flinch when they shot more, the training would go straight out the door because it’s nothing like a real pistol

[@neerajnongmaithem392]

​@@Industry-insider have shot real guns, What's their to be scared of ?, if you know what you are doing. If you know how to aim, getting to the same level of precision with a real gun in a single shot context will hardly take a day of adjusting. You just don't forget the fundamentals of shooting altogether

[@mathurp6889]

​@@Industry-insider I shoot 10m air rifle as a hobby. Never touched a firearm before coming to the USA as a student. A few minutes of practice at the range and I easily smoked asses of almost all my friends and their Dads who shot guns all their lives. You are dead wrong about air guns. They help you get your shooting basics right. As a matter of fact, a lot of Olympians participate in multiple events that use air guns and 22LRs because the shooting skill is transferable over variety of guns and events.

[@Industry-insider]

@@mathurp6889 yeah, I practice by pointing a stick at something, it’s exactly the same

[@mathurp6889]

@@Industry-insider Look up Dunning Kruger effect. When you know very little about something, you tend to over estimate your ability at it. You are seriously questioning the skill level of Olympians on KZbin! Where are your medals mate?

[@chuylisten4115]

Thxs for this random recommendation about the guns use in the Olympic. The memes of the turkeys team and the Korean team.

[@_muody]

There are fixed barrel 9 mm pistols though ;-) Not to mention smaller calibers yet still more powerful than .22 LR. Also, you could make special models with manually locked breach, just to be used in sports. I think the main reason is accessibility and ease of organization of events, when using low powered guns.

[@ColonelSanders17]

I was thinking the same thing with fixed barrels, as seen in blowback operated firearms. Hi-point has direct blowback chambered in 9mm and 10mm. Not to mention delayed blowback shooting full sized rifle cartridges like the .308. But I imagine he didn't want to mention that in the spirit of brevity.

[@JaredAF]

Yeah I could have gone down the rabbit hole of International Centerfire which usually uses .32 Auto or .32 S&W, but would have been a tangent since this is about the olympics, and the olympics don't do centerfire.

[@joshuaein]

There's no reason to use a browning style, recoil-operated, semi-automatic firearm in Olympic shooting. I'd fully expect them to use single action, fixed barrel firearms with a manual locking breech if they used them at all. The main reason I would see to use conventional firearms is when shooting long-distance where it would then become difficult to achieve sufficient muzzle velocity and projectile weight, or when shooting in dynamic events with much more movement and less precision. Imo those are more fun to participate in as well.

[@JaredAF]

@@joshuaein Yes, that's why for the former olympic sport of 50m Pistol they used 22 LR single loaders. Past the effective and intended range of airguns, conventional cartridges become more accurate. Same reason why past the effective and intended range of .22 LR it becomes imperative to use more powerful centerfire cartridges like .223, 6.5x55 etc

[@glate8tor]

What’s funny here in NJ, anything that can shoot a .177 pellet at a velocity fast enough to injure someone is still considered a firearm and requires licensing and a background check to buy 😂

[@bng2679]

That is why I think the Olympic should consider power factor. The shooting sport (like archery) was coming from hunting or military. Accuracy is pointless if it has zero damage....

[@hamingnu6610]

I don't disagree, but I think your example (Archery) is also a demonstration of the fact why separated airgun and light-calibre pistol competitions is an inevitability. Archery already has two; recurve and compound, both at wildly different power 'factors', and you know what? Like airguns, the groups and target sizes for the 'easier' compound bows are also stricter. I'm not saying I don't think it's not nice to have categories with guns that are strong, but ultimately, the olympics already IS considering the power factor. These airgun competitions have closer target groupings than the pistols with recoil. Not saying it isn't possible for someone using a real gun to shoot airgun-level groupings (the same way it's always theoretically possible for someone with a traditional recurve bow to hit groups like a compound bow user does at the same distance), but arguably, since recurve bows are much less common than people using guns that have the same power as these olympic airguns (worldwide), then isn't it also pointless to have recurve archery in the olympics if we think airguns aren't sufficiently 'damaging'? I'm not saying it should be pointless, I'm saying that I absolutely disagree with the idea that somehow the competition of airguns is invalid despite the accuracy just because it has 'zero damage' because shooting used to be a hunting or military sport, because ultimately, if we're talking about hunting or military use-cases and there must be a 'practical' damage aspect to it, then should the only shooting category that exists in the olympics be rifle shooting (no recurve archery, no compound archery, no airguns, no pistols, etc...)? I just think it's unneccessary to categorize what should and shouldn't be in the olympics based on a threshold of power, because we'll be barely left with any categories if we somehow have to exclude Airguns. Just my two cents.

[@AdalbertoMaggioJunior]

@@hamingnu6610 you have an interesting take on the matter. But one could argue that recurve and compound can be and are used to hunt so there is a translatable skill there. Moreover other shooting sports like Paintball could be argued to serve the purpose of training team dynamics in combat situations and that’s why it’s worth it despite the lack of power. I do not know of any hunting or self defense that employs air guns, except perhaps it could be used in shooting smaller birds which is not allowed in most countries…so taking the lack of recoil in consideration, where is the translatable skill part of airgun target shooting that could be used in hunt or combat?

[@wowbagger3505]

BS! I collect both historic competition air arms and smokeless 22s and grew up in the 50s and 60s. The real origin of competition air guns was in 1968 when the EPA restricted a lot of basement academic ranges being used for non-smokeless powder guns because of lead pollution both from bullets and primers. This is a significant source of lead, except maybe the Ely primer system. Most entities simply switched to air guns because they could not afford new indoor ranges. My school was a private military school with rich donors. They worked out a matching fund deal with such a donor and built a new building with a well ventelated range and bullet traps. Air arms started with the spring powered pneumatic air rifles available at the time adding elaborate mechanisms to control the squirrelly recoil ie the Feinwerkbau 300. The second generation were single pump pneumatics with pumps built into the gun and the third and current are Pre Charged Pneumatics, where the compressed air is stored in a cylinder and precisely measured. I agree Air arms are more accurate, but far less powerful.

[@itamiyouji4057]

Stop the mental gymnastics. The real reason they don't use actual firearms in the Olympics is because they're illegal or next to impossible to obtain in many competing countries.

[@jatpack3]

Exactly.

[@mathurp6889]

They do have firearms in Olympics. 25 m, 50m, trap and skeet all use 22LRs or shotguns shells which are regulated in most countries.

[@user-by7hj4dj9s]

@@mathurp6889 its not hard to find a club anywhere in europe. or even asia.

[@paulis7319]

Thank you for this, and for your other video about how the Olympic air pistols work. I never watched any Olympic sport because I prefer being a competitor in any sport rather than a spectator, so these two videos were very helpful at increasing my understanding of this stuff.

[@halo99yo]

You obviously know a lot about guns but the biggest problem with these arguments is that they don't address how moving away from firearms ruins the spirit and essence of marksmanship. So many significant alterations are made that it's no longer a gun, but a tool specifically for "Olympic shooting". By extending this logic, why not eliminate even more mechanical variables and just shoot a laser pointer? It is no longer shooting/marksmanship at this point. This is the issue with all olympic martial arts. Archery, fencing, taekwondo, karate. They are heavily optimized for sport competition (without respect to the original) to the point that it demolished the original art and has become something completely new, but still embellishes the name of the martial art which it has hijacked.

[@JaredAF]

All it's doing is eliminating mechanical variables and putting more emphasis on the athlete's skill. It all translates back and forth. the fundamentals are exactly the same.

[@DreamyAileen]

@@JaredAF Olympic shooting is certainly a sport of extreme skill, there's no argument about that. OP's point is simply that replacing real firearms with specialized airguns is so much of a jump that it practically isn't the same sport anymore. In other words, the mechanical variables of real firearms is _part of the sport._ There's just no getting around it, you can't remove those variables without changing the sport entirely.

[@itsreapernecrosis2215]

I think the biggest point is accessibility and legality. The Olympics could make Olympic grade munitions, to minimize inconsistencies and other such things, along with different categories for munitions. But the fact that alot of U.S competitors and other countries that have legal firearm ownership, can literally have competitors with access to firearm and shooting competitions early on in childhood, gives less countries opportunities to compete. Air guns just open up that generality for mostly every country on the planet.

[@darkinertia2]

well if the point of having airguns instead of real firearms is to cut down on variables and better consistency, why not go to laser tag guns? this is why i cant get into caring about some of these olympic sports because they jump the shark on going so far past practical skill like shooting a pistol one handed accurately, to having all these weird mechanical advantages and blinders and weird shit just to shoot a pistol to the point where it doesnt even look impressive, even if it technically is hard to do

[@JaredAF]

A laser system could work, if there was a delay to simulate the need for follow through, however I think it has to do with the perceived fairness of such a system. It could easily be tampered with for example.

[@jobervelasco8614]

@@JaredAF that's precisely how the laser pistols in Modern Pentathlon are set up. There is a delay between trigger squeeze and when the laser is activated. So you still need trigger control and follow through.

[@neerajnongmaithem392]

​@@jobervelasco8614seems interesting have not seen this before. The reasons I don't think it's being adopted is because it will lead to massive initial investment part for everyone ranging from organising committee, federations and ultimately atheletes. Firing ranges around the world don't have this facility so atheletes won't be able to practice or compete, also the pool of atheletes who already own airguns is huge, a change would not be appreciated by them. Changing to lasers benefits no one at the moment therefore their is no rush to adopt it worldwide

[@jobervelasco8614]

@@neerajnongmaithem392 UIPM (the Modern Pentathlon Federation) and ISSF (Intl. Shooting Sport Federation) operate separately. The ISSF has stated it would never go to laser rifles and pistols, but things can always change over time. When UIPM went to laser pistols the transition was quite easy as they only had to add laser modules to their pistols. The laser could be activated via the dry fire training mode on the pistol. The pistol could be fired as normal with compressed air and pellets with the laser module removed. Pardini later came out with a dedicated laser pistol for Modern Pentathlon. ISSF can already do "laser" only competition using the SCATT electronic training system. During the worldwide pandemic we were doing global postal matches with athletes shooting at home using the SCATT systems and turning in their scores. The "benefit" of laser is everyone has the same accuracy. No ammo testing trying to find the best grouping lot of pellets or .22 is needed. And no more ammo to buy, period.

[@neerajnongmaithem392]

@@jobervelasco8614 very interesting, how economical is this SCATT system. Definitely think ISSF can implement it in the top level as you have said, i am more worried about the lower levels of shooting where I don't think the organisers would have access to it. The local ranges in my state don't even have electronic scoring, we just shoot on paper like the old days. Electronic scoring ranges are extremely rated and are only available to the already top atheletes.

[@apenza4304]

That was an Olympic explanation. Thank you.

[@taoisttiger4702]

Virgin airpistoler: "wah too many moving parts!" Chad Jerry Miculik: "so anyway here's 8 shots on 4 target in 1 second WITH A REVOLVER" 😂🤷🏼‍♂️

[@kloa4219]

*shot at 10ft with a bunch of ads and intros

[@taoisttiger4702]

@kloa4219 almost all combat ranges with a pistol are under 7m and end within reactionary gaps sooooo...

[@steefant]

"blessed" :D thanks for the laugh but also the excellent explanation.

[@esbam2002]

Well, if you can't accurately shoot at least a 9mm with only iron sights you're not much of a pistol shot. Bonus points if it's a DA/SA and not striker fired.

[@TheDudeAbidesYo]

You are extremely well spoken. I had fun just listening to how good at talking you are

[@tuplaluusto]

Airguns were used in real wars as "a real gun" back in the days anyways.

[@jarkoer]

The fixed barrel aiding accuracy makes a tremendous amount of sense. I've often found my revolvers and .22 pistols are more accurate than my 9 and 45 semi-autos.

[@Patriot36]

You're a smart and well spoken young man but 4:50 there are more than 3 or 4 variables that effect accuracy with regards to cartridge reloading. I suspect that you were understating this for the sake of simplicity. In any case, this was a very good video.

[@nickm5647]

The reasons make sense, but I still think it’s dumb that they use air guns instead of a proper handgun/rifle caliber. The absolute precision that *can* be achieved with a real firearm and the extremely impressive and precise shots actual professionals have to make in real life situations as well as the precision you see from competitions I think is enough to warrant that the whole “air guns are just more consistent and more accurate” thing to be such a minimal factor. It hardly feels very sporting when they rock up with the most overbuilt and optimized gun with zero recoil and special glasses and shit.

[@armoredplacoderm]

The answer is "communism." Saved you eight minutes.

[@Sidlurker]

buddy. are we okay?

[@TheGrenadier97]

Air stuff is cheaper and less troublesome. Why? You guess.

[@Anonymous______________]

​@@Sidlurkerummm, I think you are the one who should be asking that question but while looking in the mirror.

[@Mainz_1901]

Bro chose to be the fart smella

[@gaoth88]

You even know what that means? You have to a bot or troll right.

[@AJ-em2rb]

thanks for this. exactly what i was looking for

[@mattb9343]

Wrong. You absolutely could make a competition spec 1911 that had tighter tolerances, and specially made ammunition with more uniform grain and consistent powder burn. You can even make the powder burn sub-sonic to prevent super-sonic noise and booms. Add a suppressor (think of the muffler on your car dampening the explosions in an engine) and you can easily lower noise to levels where hearing protection isn't needed. Same goes for the ranges, it is incredibly easy to angle a sheet of hardened steel to deflect a bullet downward to the ground and into a catch made of sand. The only barriers are time, money, the desire to do these things, and legality. The time and money would never be spent creating something that these countries don't allow people to own legally. That's the "real" reason. Especially those suppressors.

[@MysticalArcane]

Most 1911s don't shoot above the speed of sound. The average 1911 shoots at velocities of 595 mph, which is subsonic.

[@bottomethgear9622]

An "acthualiiyyy" moment. If you listened correctly it's the matter of ease, not possibility. You're not adding or correcting any points to the video, just showing the world your poor attention span.

[@WestyThaDawg]

What you’ve done is make the exact same points he did about why it would be too costly and impractical, but rephrased them as ‘we COULD do x, y and z, if money, time and practicality weren’t factors’. Saying you could hypothetically do something doesn’t mean his points about why it isn’t done IN REALITY are ‘wrong’.

[@MysticalArcane]

@@WestyThaDawg Giving people a handgun that shoots 9mm or .45 acp is not actually all that costly for a multi-billion dollar event that happens every four years with hundreds of countries participating.

[@WestyThaDawg]

@@MysticalArcane That sounds good on paper, but I think you're missing some key details. The IOC doesn't pay athletes, host nations often make a financial loss, and Olympic athletes typically make very little (even some U.S. athletes have to work second jobs just to afford to compete). You also aren't considering what happens in those three years in-between. Other competitions aren't anywhere near as big, and can't afford to give everyone expensive custom pistols. Even if they could, there are plenty of countries where those kinds of pistols are outright illegal, whether you're in a shooting club or not. Also, athletes need to practice, and will probably shoot hundreds, if not thousands of rounds a week. Shooters will need to fund that practice themselves. It's not practical for them to be spending thousands on rounds every year, just to show up every four years for a shot at maybe winning a medal and (if you're an american athlete) $20-30k. All this for a sport that is extremely niche, which most people frankly don't give a shit about, and which generates a fraction of the viewership and revenue of other sports.