Why Alberta says it's entitled to half of Canada's Pension Plan | About That

The Alberta government wants out of the Canada Pension Plan - and the province wants to take more than half of the pot with it. Andrew Chang breaks down how Alberta arrived at its $334 billion take-home figure - and why some experts say the province needs to double check its math.
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[@Sqashlmo]

Explaining Canada to Canadians, one of the most valuable series of videos on KZbin bar none.

[@pamelawalker8052]

My brother get 500 dollars more than me, we are both pensioners, he worked as a driller all over Canada, I worked in hospitality and only in BC. My point is you only get what you put into the CPP fund and it doesnt matter where you work in Canada or where you retire. Its federal

[@AllanHambrick]

Duh. That's the issue.

[@bigmike6461]

​@@AllanHambrickand you think taking away peoples pensions and giving it to oil executives is the answer.

[@meaghanorlinski8464]

Exactly. Also, Alberta has so many workers from Newfoundland, Ontario, etc. People come and go from the Rigs. If you worked there but moved back home, how does it work then?

[@3baxcb]

I think that such facts seem to elude that premier, or she chooses not to let such facts get in the way of her spin.

[@AllanHambrick]

@@bigmike6461 wtf are you even talking about? Where did I say that or even hint at that. CPP has been borked for decades. It was built as a ponzi scheme and always has been a ponzi scheme.

[@neilmakohoniuk3768]

Albertan here - the idea that Alberta owns this money is crazy - contributions were made by individual workers - the money belongs to the workers - wherever they have lived or currently live. so many folks can be lifelong Albertans and then retire to another part of the country that is better suited to retired folks - BC for example!

[@Teetle-EeeTee-Tee]

And, I could be wrong here, but it probably benefits Alberta when its retirees move to other provinces. Old people require way more healthcare than young people.

[@johnqpublic9074]

Lol, Alberta does own the money. It's legal. No different than Quebec. It's time mom and dad took the Xbox away and let the freeloaders pay their own way...

[@ryanmilliken6106]

@@johnqpublic9074 Contributions are made by individuals not the government of alberta. You are a regard.

[@johnqpublic9074]

@@ryanmilliken6106 Yup, individuals pay, Alberta disproportionately higher than the rest of Canada, due to income variances and demographics, the system isn't fully funded, it's the proverbial pyramid scheme. The exit is legal, Quebec has their own. Time for the rest of Canada to pay their own way.

[@neilmakohoniuk3768]

@@johnqpublic9074no they don't - everyone pays the exact same percentage no matter where they live - again WORKERS pay not Alberta. As for funding - its completely funded for the next 70 years and is rated as amoung the best performing funds in the entire world.

[@roberthanks1636]

I hired a private consultant, who crunched some numbers, and concluded that the Province of Alberta owes me 17.3 billion dollars.

[@moonbalancedd]

Party at your house tonight.

[@Fujhipngff]

@@moonbalanceddfrrrrrrr

[@stephenrioux6821]

I got you beat. Alberta owes me $37.1 Billion.

[@roberthanks1636]

@@stephenrioux6821 You have a better accountant than me!

[@IrOfLaTtHeMoOn]

It's not how the pension works anyways. The first person to get the pension was on the day it begun. This is because it's not like people are investing their savings for their retirement, they are literally paying the previous generations that are retired. I'm an Albertan, and I'd like us to get billions to invest, but it wouldn't be surprising if we got 0 for leaving.

[@jamescolville-j3q]

I am a retiree at the moment, however central to this argument is that of portability. In my working career, I started in Ontario, then I worked up in the N.W.T., then in Newfoundland, then back to Ontario, then out to Alberta and then back to Ontario. I was never worried about my provincial status for my Canada Pension contributions and payouts. It is a world leader as far as pension plans go and I hope I won't have to worry for the future.

[@clairebeckner4667]

Why did Quebec not join the rest of the provinces in the Pension Plan? Does the government contribute (give) money to Quebec’s Pension Plan? If it works for Quebec, why wouldn’t i5 work for Alberta?

[@Guy_With_A_Laser]

@@clairebeckner4667 Quebec has its own pension plan. They do not receive contributions from the rest of Canada and generally don't pay out to people in the rest of Canada (*probably if you worked in Quebec and retire elsewhere you might get some funds out, IDK the details on this). The problem here is not Alberta wanting to start their own fund--they can--the problem is how much of the current value CPP the think they are entitled to when they exit the program. As for why Quebec chose not to, probably has a lot to do with the political circumstances in the 60s (Quebec was on the brink of separating from Canada) and didn't want to entangle themselves in major Canadian project. Quebec has many programs similar to this. [edit]And just to be clear, the Government of Canada does not contribute to the CPP (unless you are employed by government). Canadians contribute, and their contributions are matched by their employers. CPP is essentially a government-run investment bank, but it is at arms length from the government and the government can't directly access the funds for any purpose other than paying out retirees.

[@iExploder]

@@clairebeckner4667Because Quebec was out of the CPP from the start. Alberta now wants to steal my pension money, 100% contributed in Ontario, for itself. Thats the difference.

[@AlbertMark-nb9zo]

@@Guy_With_A_Laser - not only that but if you look at the Quebec plan, they now pay more as a percentage of their pay.

[@carlyar5281]

@@AlbertMark-nb9zoyup. Quebec workers now pay more in contributions for QPP. When it was established in the 60s, Quebec had a younger population, and they felt that it was a better deal for their province to go alone because they had so many young workers…. But now and for the last decade or more the population is not very young, and they don’t have as many young workers. As a result, contributions have had to go up and is higher compared to the rest of the country. Since part of Alberta’s argument is that they have a younger workforce, they will experience the same shifting demographics in the next 20 years as their population ages.

[@jun8719]

It's NOT right to calculate it by province, but by individual. Think about those left Alberta

[@A.G.P.115]

Ottawa will come out with the true numbers and then alberta's Gov't well take it to court.

[@CountSessine]

But that’s a part of the problem. Albertans earn a LOT. They’d still get a huge share of the pot if it was based on individuals (although less than Lifeworks is calculating). Albertans have done REALLY well and have contributed far more to the plan than other Canadians, but asking for all of that back is rather like asking your insurance company for all of your car insurance premiums back.

[@dexterfretsing2055]

Then they can get APP for the years they worked in Alberta, and CPP for the years they didn't. I'll bet their APP turns out to be a much higher rate.

[@carlyar5281]

@@CountSessine the thing is that there’s a maximum contribution limit per year and everyone contributes at the same rate up to the maximum. So it doesn’t matter if you’re making $100,000 in Ontario or in Alberta, and you pay the same amount on the first $66,000 you make per year (the contribution limit for 2023). So, if incomes are higher in Alberta, it doesn’t matter because they’re not going to pay a cent more over the limit.

[@CommoditySC]

​@@CountSessine You're overstating it. You know what city in Canada has the highest income? It's Ottawa.

[@susanstewart1402]

This is definitely a major exercise in actuarial studies. I would like to know how situations where people contribute to both QPP and CPP at various times in their lives is handled.

[@carlyar5281]

It’s a mess. Fortunately, if you work in Quebec, but reside in another province, when it comes to tax season the contributions are sorted out (transferred between QPP and CPP. But if you work part of your life and contribute to CPP and the other part in Quebec and contribute to QPP it’s a bit of a mess of paperwork.

[@susanstewart1402]

@@carlyar5281 Thanks, that's interesting. It sounds like this situation with Alberta will be a boon to the actuaries.

[@rb239rtr]

Apparently there is a mechanism for portability. QPP needs more funding than CPP due to the older cadre- I imagine CPP would top up the difference required by a QPP pension. APP would also need to negotiate portability.

[@theflowpowa42oshow]

Interesting postulation indeed my boi

[@theflowpowa42oshow]

Sounds like another way to keep people out the province.@@carlyar5281

[@carlyar5281]

If the calculations is based on all contributions Albertans have made since the beginning, and the deductions Albertans have made, it appears that they completely forget the contributions that were made by a Albertans who then MOVED OUT of Alberta before they withdrew. I grew up in Alberta, and I started working as an Albertan, but I no longer live in Alberta. It’s absolute BS that Alberta would get the money that I contributed! When I lived in Saskatchewan there were a lot of retirees, who worked in Alberta, but moved Saskatchewan to retire. I wonder how Saskatchewan feels about this… or BC, or the maritimes. CPP is not paid by the province but by INDIVIDUALS. That is key. Will the Alberta pension program pay me if I return home when I retire???

[@awilliams4957]

I also was born and raised in Alberta,now retired living in NFL,the finance minister and the premier have other agendas with Ottawa I think this is just to stir the pot.

[@carlyar5281]

⁠@@awilliams4957I totally agree! Btw, I love the idea of retiring in NFL or the maritimes. It’s beautiful on the coast and people are so friendly. I’ve always loved it out there. Enjoy your retirement!

[@d.randrowlands7657]

Ever since Alberta raised the issue, I've been saying the same as you, and now, finally, what the media is saying. Pensions belong to the persons, not the provinces. If Alberta wants their own plan, they can start now with nothing, leaving all the comingled CPP funds behind to be managed and paid out by the current CPP organization. True, this would leave the Alberta government paying large upfront administration costs, but if they truly believe Albertans would be better off looking after their own funds, it should not be long before these costs are recovered.

[@ZeroGainZ]

i wonder if this is what happens in Ottawa, all the people who move to Ottawa during their working years then retire in Ontario.

[@awilliams4957]

Thank you,yes it is a very beautiful part of Canada and the people really are very kind and welcoming unlike PEI but thats another story😎@@carlyar5281

[@katherinekelly5380]

As an Albertan, I think UCP is trying to dazzle us with big numbers - no matter what the number, it’s irrelevant because there is NO WAY I would trust Premier Smith with my pension!

[@mikeawesome9212]

I don't trust her with anything but I don't trust trudy with anything either. He's using our CPP money and taxes on lavish vacations for himself and his greasy administration.

[@MrJoeSomebody]

No fan of hers but she wouldn’t be. There are rules and regulations in place on who manages CPP and APP would be no different.

[@Kanakid]

So tell me this: why would you trust The bungled federal government to handle your pension money? Danielle would not be managing this money. Albertans would. After seeing how Trudeau has completely destroyed Canada’s finances why on earth would you trust the federal government with anything? You must be a dipper. Your eyes are not yet open.

[@debreeser]

@@MrJoeSomebody There were rules and regulations about the Alberta Heritage fund, all of which where ignored by the Conservatives such that the fund is worthless now. As a point of comparison, Norway set up a comparable fund based on the Alberta Heritage fund and it was managed properly such that it is now the wealthiest sovereign trust fund in the world. The Conservatives cannot be trusted with anything because of their corruption and incompetence.

[@bjowen5335]

Another Albertan here (by the way, also a Canadian :P) you need to follow the money behind the United Conservative Party (UCP) over here. Big Oil. That's it. Witness the recent halt on green energy development in this province. It's so transparent it's ludicrous. I question how an Albertan Pension Plan will invest our provincial dollars... cronyism anyone?

[@bender7167]

Yeah, it’ll all go into one basket and when oil is down we will be screwed. That’s all they know how to do in that party. It’s like a government based on the sunk cost fallacy.

[@tonygallagher6997]

LifeWorks did a stellar job showing why no one should ever use their services.

[@KB_13247]

no what lifeworks did was show that if you want skewed numbers, you hire them. the alberta conservatives knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they hired lifeworks. lifeworks is the fall guy, they delivered what the cons wanted, bullshit numbers so they can claim albertans are being stolen from and we should pull out and that somehow magically that will be more money for us. what they'll do if they make an APP is they'll turn it into a ponzy scheme. it's the only way they can increase benefits for albertans by grabbing more out of the APP than what goes in, which will in the long term drive the APP bankrupt much faster than the CPP.

[@Fenthule]

I just did a quick good search and saw that LifeWorks is formerly known as Morneau Shepell and instantly shuddered. No wonder. I've had to deal with them in the past and it always left a taste of slime on the tongue.

[@berniecelee5062]

LIFEWORKS IS Showing us why their leadership and talent is lacking. How could they simplified this calculation with soooooo many factors and NEVER NEVER hired the right actuaries to start this conversation is mind boggling! Anyone with a smart and wise brain could understand this is like figuring out the flight path to heaven with your rocket ship 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ , mapping out the flight path and how much fuel you’re going to need, and where would you re fuel and where exactly is the pearly gates? Thank you Andrew for asking the experts , who obviously is NOT Lifeworks …. Is there a correct answer ? Short answer is NO -they can never get the accurate data of who put money in and trace where that dollar went or grew to over what a 50 year period…. GEEZ , they haven’t invented that computer yet to follow the dollar every Albertian deposited and where did they move to after working there ? It’s a near impossible task and why waste good resources in trying to figure out the Correct Number …only GOD can do the calculation that would be fair to everyone who made a deposit into CPP. Stop this conversation now ….we got bigger issues to deal with.

[@elvinn9434]

👍🏽👍🏽

[@road_rider]

Or, if you're looking for a consulting firm that can produce a report to match the number you want, regardless of reality, perhaps they are the service you want?

[@littleredridinghood5622]

2:58 All the money Alberta EVER paid into CCP .. Well over the years there's been thousands and thousands of out of province workers working in Alberta (mostly in oil industry) and most of those workers are now in their home provinces drawing CCP .. So ACTUAL Alberta residents didn't pay in $163 B ..

[@scottshorten9962]

i agree aolt of newfies worked out there during the boom times.and they always go back home.

[@trrexxx]

A fair point. I was thinking of that also.

[@Tzimisce]

Did you stop watching part way through? That's covered starting around 7:55.

[@magsj6474]

I agree. Maybe the term used shouldn't be "Alberta paid" but "People working in Alberta paid".

[@FirstName-rt9uf]

​@scottshorten9962 Yep, always go back home with Alberta's economic strength in the form of money, only to keep voting Liberal, and to keep being leeches on the west.

[@marianfrances4959]

Right on, Andrew Chang! 👍😎🇨🇦

[@randydyck9353]

She (the Premier) has found new money to steal from Albertans and give to her friends.

[@paparoysworkshop]

As for myself, I was born and worked my entire life in Alberta. However, I've retired in Ontario. So who then pays my CCP? I would then say Alberta is responsible for it. What a mess. Why can't we all just get along?

[@Qwahchees]

cons gotta con of course

[@auklin7079]

You would still get your pension, because you worked in Alberta to build it. If you don't get your full pension, it's because Alberta didn't get the money back from the feds

[@nancyneyedly4587]

Yeah, I don't know how people would go about proving they paid into CPP while working in Alberta long ago if they are living in another province now. What kind of record keeping is this, we only need to keep tax returns for the past six years, so what if I worked in Alberta 30 years ago?

[@paparoysworkshop]

@@nancyneyedly4587 I'm sure the government has it recorded somewhere in their archives. Just like births and deaths and a thousand other things are archived.

[@Demane69]

Get along? Ontario hates Alberta. It's seen through legislature, and how much money has been drained out of Alberta for other provinces. This is Alberta saying it can no longer be drained like before when the natural resource sector is forced to slow. Ask Ontario why they can't get along. To expect a 1 sided deal for eternity is absurd. I am not agreeing with any course of action, I merely am saying this was inevitable and one would have to be blind to not see it. I'm sure more will open their eyes with our Federal Government draining everyone of their money now. Alberta has just been drained for a much longer time.

[@intiaboats]

Of course one has to consider that not all of those who worked in Alberta, resided in Alberta. They came from all of the provinces & territories. Why should Alberta receive the money from those contributions?

[@hoyster184]

Because they worked in Alberta is the answer to this.

[@funtodiekk]

Because it was work done in alberta they decided to work get paid in Alberta but then left and never spent the worked money in Alberta. A revolving door of workers getting paid and leaving just as fast.

[@Scotian6444]

​@@funtodiekkand that had no bearing on retirement.. 53 % rofl... ya well with that math you owe the maritime provinces for the fish stock collapse.. or Ontario for manufacturing... Canada the land of give me mama.. give give give

[@chriskola3822]

Those contributions would still be paid out to those people who don't reside in Alberta.

[@doctorbryan954]

Guess what? They actually considered this and yes those funds belong to Alberta.

[@gappleton8255]

I worked all my life in Alberta and retired in BC. Don't forget my share there, Ms Smith!

[@3baxcb]

I don't think Smith has even considered such things when musing about trying to create a provincial pension plan from scratch.

[@The4thking742]

That’s your problem. You left. And are currently paying BC taxes. No Alberta’s.

[@gappleton8255]

@@The4thking742 Nope. All my taxes were paid in Alberta.

[@BDow-Koot]

Same here. That's my and my employer's contribution to the plan. Now Smith wants to control that money when she is no longer my provincial premier. Alberta got the benefit of having my productive years paying higher in the tax rates but the other provinces had the burden of educating me and then taking care of me in my older years.

[@Demane69]

Don't assume. Do the research. You now have people crying as if they will lose their money, before confirming anything.

[@claytontherrien7583]

I have been paying car insurance to ICBC for 45 years without a claim. I want all my money back now. The premier's claim is equally preposterous.

[@zigarten]

Not really, As he said, it's allowed wheras your reference to wanting back your insurance premiums is, in my opinion, preposterous, that;s not how insurance works, if it did, they'd all go broke and you'd pay a whole lot of money for repairing your car out of pocket all at once.

[@ScubaSteveCanada]

@@zigarten Which, in his specific case, is a grand total of $0.00. Maybe car insurance should not exist since the courts can handle the civil suits that arise from a car "accident."

[@cherylwright5540]

Good for Albertans who have been paying more into the CPP than they have been taking out. Alberta has been supporting the rest of Canada for many, many decades. We pay more into the equalization payments than we ever get back. We have been nothing but abused by the Liberal governments. I, for one, am tired of this. I'd be happy to leave Canada all together. Take everything and give nothing to the those who have abused our generosity.

[@PHPyme]

One small problem Cheryl, there is no factual basis to a single word you wrote. Did you not watch the video? You have bought into the B.S. Burger, Smith, and the UCP is shilling. Wake up, the Alberta pity party is getting old.

[@bravenewworld90]

I’ll watch anything with Andrew

[@BlacqueJacqueShellacque_]

If every province wanted to take their money back and calculated this the same way Alberta did there's not going to be enough money.

[@tommcd8471]

since Canadian politics is now a 0 sum game because of the liberals...who the hell cares, theres no national unity anymore and if Albertans don't look out for Albertans then no one else will.

[@FirstName-rt9uf]

This is mainly because the regular Atlantic Canadian freeloaders take way more than they contribute. There isn't enough money to go around.

[@bullmeatt]

this is why they want out, the CPP is a ponzi scheme scam and eventually its going to implode and destroy the country. Alberta should take the loss and settle for less to avoid this ticking time bomb

[@k24-z9e]

There has only been 3 net contributors in the history of the cpp. B.C., Alberta and Ontario.

[@dvsmapple]

Québec has never been part of the CPP. And now, we're not freeloading on anyone. If you take all federal revenues and compared them to federal spending in Québec, it turns out the difference is negligible. Equalization? It largely funds Québec's budgetary surplus, while other federal transfers are largely offset by federal taxes collected in Québec.@cryptameria

[@DoggosintheHouse]

This is an excellent feature and provides a great deal of clarity into how the Alberta Government arrived at the number they did. As a Canadian, obviously, I'd be upset to hear that the entire CPP should be gutted to fund Alberta's new plan. I'd be very upset if the retirement pensions of 34 million Canadians should be flushed down the toilet to benefit 4 million Albertans.

[@kimchristensen2175]

It wouldn't happen. The Alberta government is dreaming. In fact, I see a opportunity for the federal government to use this to guarantee their reelection by playing hardball with Alberta bigtime.

[@Couladin-]

And this is the exact opposite of what the lady is talking about in point three. The experts think its against the spirit of the system that Alberta wants so much because the system benefited them less and it's not social of them to be upset about that. Meanwhile lots of people in other provinces would be miffed in Alberta pulled half the fund because suddenly they would be the ones losing out, just like Alberta has supposedly lost out the last 50 years. Alberta's position is that they are not gutting the pension for their province, they're taking back what is there's, if the fund is gutted that's a condemnation of the fund. Which is a slippery slope for sure. That's the hypocrisy of the whole situations, neither side is more correct than the other, everyone just wants to look out for themselves. I do think it's interesting the presenter calls it "debunking" the math to say that a dollar could go in and out within one small timeframe to pay someone and have earned zero rate of return, the counter argument being - why are you using my money to fund someone else in another province when you could easily fund their retirement with their own money they put in first. No money should be in and out in the same day, that's a red herring by the CBC. At the very least, any provinces in deficit should have their deficit calculated and then spread over all other provinces proportionally by contributions. It's a ridiculous assertion to say for instance, NS is 50B in deficit, all of that 50B was made up by AB contributions; therefore, 50B of AB contributions had virtually no return. That would be a laughable position, but it's what they've insuinated in rebuttal point one.

[@francoislepine4698]

@@Ryanderson8467 yep....she's an empty tin can if she does not have a fight to pick with the Feds.....I can't wait for her to skip the ribbon cutting ceremony when TMX starts pumping her oil to tidewater next year......CANADIANS spent thirty billion dollars to help out those poor hard working Albertans with that one!

[@swss12]

I like this new guy on cbc digging into the dirt of Canada. That’s real news reporting!

[@lesahackborn3939]

I'm in support of a compulsory pension allocation off our compensation, however you ought to settle on a decision from many benefits assets to place it in and the Public authority doesn't have anything to do with it. Since states are great at spending - not saving...As businesses expand globally, they often require consulting services to navigate international markets, regulations. i have built a long-term relationship with a financial analyst and I'm in steady stream of income

[@alexegrey4214]

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[@lesahackborn3939]

Strategising might be quite rigorous for the regular. As a matter of fact, they are mostly successfully carried out by experts who have a great deal of skillset managing a financial portfolio, I’ve been on both end of the spectrum investing on my own for about years, did my own study and analysis before actually buying, things became rather difficult not until a colleague introduced me to my current financial analyst. She has helped me convert my 150k portfolio into 500k

[@harper-rosewright4843]

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[@lesahackborn3939]

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[@alexegrey4214]

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[@ahsanmohammed1]

Didn’t say why Albertans want to leave.

[@kennordsfan1494]

I know. The real reason? Alberta pays the most out of all the provinces and yet we all get the same? With the Maritimes taking 7 billion more than they contribute? Basically Alberta and Ontario keep CPP afloat? Why should we? I and many I know see how much we pay out and contiune to see how little we get back. If the Feds werent using it for general revenue for most of the plans existence then things might be better.

[@kennordsfan1494]

My pension when I can take it will be 900 more a month than CPP? How? I would have paid close to 40 years into CPP by then? Something isnt right so Let’s we hoe much money is really there is what a lot of Albertans are saying too. We dont trust Trudeau lol go figure

[@ahsanmohammed1]

@@kennordsfan1494 Isn’t there more going on? Like wanting to separate from Canada? Why? What’s going on? Any good documentary on it all?

[@PHPyme]

@@kennordsfan1494 Alberta, the province got more federal investment funds in the last five years from the Canadian government than any other province except Ont. When the UCP government sends out propaganda do yourself a favour and fact-check it. Smith wouldn't recognize a fact if her life depended on it.

[@B-...]

The real reason is that the Alberta government wants to have that giant pool of money to use to invest in their friend's, family's and donor's businesses.

[@armedhyde1448]

Excellent coverage Andrew! Someone give this man a raise.

[@cstephen98]

Sorry but where did the compound interest come from. They only started investing part of the plan (to protect it's viability) under Chretien. Before that the people paying in balanced the amount coming out. Sounds like they want interest on the entire amount from when the plan started. Best case they should get what they paid in, minus what they paid out plus interest since the late 90's/2000's.

[@kennordsfan1494]

No every Canadian since 1966 except Quebec, have paid into the CPP. I dont even think it was Chreitien but the plan has being in a downturn because of the lack of governments not making it a separate entity way back. Alberta is the largest contributor and has been for a very long time with Ontario doing a distance 2nd. The Maritimes takes 7 billion more than they contribute. So will it hurt Canada oh yes but 🖕🏻to the east that contiunes to take advantage of the west for far too long. After this second Trudeau we have had enough.

[@t.m.l.t.m.l.5399]

The federal government is the problem. All the contributions go to the CPP fund including the matching employers contributions. The government changed the minimum requirements of the pension to a pay as you go plan. So just enough to cover that years pension payouts. Excess funds for years have been diverted to pay for other things instead of investing our money. On the books it shows up as a big IOU. So Martin when they started running surpluses started repaying what governments had borrowed from us and started investing it. This should have always been done. No other pension fund by law could have done what the government did. They stole our money or borrowed it without our consent. Any other fund manager would have gone to jail.

[@ryanthompson3737]

​@@t.m.l.t.m.l.5399...No, as far as I'm aware there is nothing preventing a pension fund from diverting customer funds to pay business expenses so long as there is a way to actually return the money, and it's not part of some greater book cooking scheme. If it's in the contract, it's in the contract. In this case, if the owner of the fund is the same person that creates the rules, they can pretty much do ANYTHING with the fund money. You agreed to their taking just by being a member of society and civilian in Canada. Don't like it? Leave. Plenty of other countries where it's a LOT worse... the US is a good example.

[@t.m.l.t.m.l.5399]

@@ryanthompson3737 No you are 100 % wrong!! There is a huge difference. Employee contributions to any plan are always managed separately and cannot be touched. Now if the company contributes matching or all of the money to a plan than their is flexibility to adjust their contributions based on the health of the plan and the age of the work force. Obviously if the company is struggling or a severe market correction happens it may not be able to fund the losses for a period of time. So the CPP is not paid for by the government but is administered by them. OAS is a fully government funded payment. There is no mystery here. The money diverted. This is well understood facts.

[@ryanthompson3737]

@@t.m.l.t.m.l.5399 TLDR; how do you explain the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan? They also engage in rampant gambling with teachers pensions and teachers are ALSO mandated by law to pay into that fund.

[@timp3931]

In 2002 I worked for a company which was bought out. They changed the pension plan (actually made it slightly better) to make it similar to the new company's pension plan. On our pension statements there were 2 numbers, old plan and new plan. So Alberta just starts their new plan on, say, 1 Jan 2025 and a typical person would get 2 pension payments when they retire, one from CPP, based on their contributions and one based on the contributions to the new plan.

[@mattvan5100]

As an Albertan, that's not a bad idea but it's besides the point and that's what this is about. From 2015 to 2021, Alberta was in a recession. My house assesment went from 460k in 2014, to 380 by 2019. Almost 20%. Imagine that in Ontario or quebec. The federal government would of intervened. Instead of helping alberta, they created the carbon tax and continued attacking our economy. All while bailing out SNC lavalin and the manufacturing sector in Ontario. The feds turned their back on us and now we want to say " screw you" right back. It just took this many years to get a provincial government voted in to do something.

[@butwhytharum]

​@@mattvan5100 that's why you don't use the house you live in as an "investment"...

[@mattvan5100]

@butwhytharum I was only stating house values to give context on the situation. I do disagree with what you are saying though. I believe that you should buy a fixer upper to live in while doing upgrades your self to make the house more desirable. Sweat equity if you will. Having your house paid off should be 1/3 of your retirement so it kind of is an investment

[@qjsharing2408]

The last time the UCP transferred control of a pension, they gave their finance minister legal authority to invest 10% of it. If you look at Illinois, this is a great way of masking borrowing from the voters as well as buying votes, and leaving future taxpayers on the hook

[@3baxcb]

It's a very risky thing to do, and everyone is on the hook when something goes wrong.

[@bigmike6461]

Plus they want to give it to aimco, the same company that screwed over teaches with their pension n

[@DR-ro7dw]

And what is the ucp’s definition of “invest”? If smiths own words from an interview from not long ago are any indication……”with a transfer of the pension we could invest in a provincial police force”. Right, invest in something that does not increase in value, cannot be sold and pays no dividends. What a plan, it would be a joke if it wasn’t so serious for regular folks who unlike the politicians do not make a high six figure income with a golden pension plus CPP. Utter bovine scatology.

[@mattvan5100]

Couldn't the same argument be made about the cpp?

[@ScytheNoire]

UCP is a criminal organization. Look at their record.

[@North-of-the-49th]

This is a wonderfully made video explanation. Very impressed. Thank you/ merci 🍁

[@Jac5inCo]

This is pure cope, did they not say that is each Provence had a free choice to leave, and not be a net gain to be spent elsewhere?

[@totallyhappycrop]

I love the way you covered this topic! Extremely clear and gets to the heart of the matter.

[@Mike-ht1ou]

issue is the base CPP is not fully funded. it started out as a ‘pay-as-you go’ which pay more benefits than earned by the earlier retirees in the cpp. If it was fully funded individual can pull their net present value of their future benefits at any time

[@gargalash9191]

which is another reason we need so many immigrants. the population needs to keep growing for gdp to keep growing so debt can keep growing , more money coming in to cover the ever increasing amount of pensioners.

[@almisami]

@@gargalash9191 Looks a lot like a Ponzi scheme to me...

[@Hyperpandas]

It is fully funded, and then some. But it's not as simple as you imagine, because Alberta is making some serious assumptions in its estimates. For example, if someone from Newfoundland worked in the oilpatch for ten years and then moved back home, Smith figures Alberta should get to manage the contributions from that ten year period. Is that reasonable? Nope. Does the worker want to have to collect pension from Alberta and CPP? Probably not. Will the smaller pension pools mean more risk to both? Yep.

[@Mike-ht1ou]

@@Hyperpandas suggest you learn about net present value of future pension obligations. No corporate pension would be allowed to be run the same way as the CPP “pay as you go” scheme. Baseline assumption for government is incompetence and best way is for individuals to take responsibility and mange their own future rather than being reliant on social welfare which is cash coming from successful people/businesses “givers” -> government which skims away some due to inefficiency-> less successful members of society “takers”

[@Hyperpandas]

@@Mike-ht1ou I suggest you learn how CPP works because it's not "pay as you go" and it operates independently of government. The issue with Alberta's figure has to do with its manner of calculation. As noted in the report from Lifeworks, they don't even understand the liabilities Alberta would be carrying, yet they came up with an absurd figure regardless.

[@Justice200]

Ontario is the province’s made more contribution

[@danfromnorth52]

This is such an excellent report and really helps to understand the situation.

[@jupitereye4322]

Yeah, especially helpful to understand how media manipulates narrative. How come no one is talking about which province contributes the least to economy? Where are the numbers of the contributing factors to Canadian economy? So when we are talking about the "spirit" of contributions, its not okay to ask back, but if you are contributing more than others then that is somehow ok.

[@carlyar5281]

@@jupitereye4322 provinces don’t contribute to CPP and the regional economic disparities don’t matter because individuals contribute at the same rate across the country up to a maximum contribution amount. So if you make $100,000, you pay the same amount of CPP, regardless of where you live in the country. Not only that, the annual contributions max out at $66,000 a year (as of 2023 ) so if you make $100,000 a year, you pay the same amount as someone who makes $66,000 a year. So it doesn’t matter if Alberta workers make more than the average, they’re still only paying the same amount, as if they worked anywhere else in the country (excluding Quebec, who has their own system, and actually pays more because they did their own).

[@cnightingale9]

It’s amazing how many Albertans don’t understand this.

[@jupitereye4322]

@@carlyar5281 I am not talking about CCP contributions, I am talking about overall economy. Alberta adds a LOT to Canadian economy and all it has been seeing from federal governments is obstacles in the past decade. But Alberta isn't the only one who would be out of the federal program, so the question is why is this is a problem now? Ok, maybe Alberta doesn't need to have a "cahsback", certainly not that interest they are talking about, in my opinion that is just a negotiating tactic, but they should have the right to have their own thing going on if they want it. This question about Alberta is much wider than it seems, there have been some wild ideas of annexation by the USA, not too much wilder than separatist ideas for Quebec. The truth of the matter is that there is polarization in Canada, as well as in the USA, where these wild plans have been forwarded, and there are many reasons for this, least of which are ideological.

[@joeisawesome540]

@@jupitereye4322 Well this report is about how CPP works? so why would they mention everything else that is not related to how CPP works? Do you have to be a victim in every conversation? wtf is wrong with you?

[@TofuBoi_]

They got greedy, and trying to mess up other Canadians lives. Selfish.

[@mrG11]

They're not only going after the legitimately owed amounts.. they're going after the surplus. We all know that when an individual dies before the "break even" date that the remainder of their entitlement is not paid to an estate but to the fund. Their calculation being based on percentage gains by year tips their hand.

[@JBRacing613]

Insurance has always been about the surplus income from premiums because the premiums themselves are not enough to cover the liabilities. That is why ponzi schemes were made illegal.

[@mariadekelver2240]

Very good point

[@JerryCheevers]

Well events like this are about negotiation, you don't start with the number you want, do you....

[@buzzfeedright4154]

It says very clearly in the article he showed, amount paid in, returns, minus administrative costs, and funds withdrawn, so yea we’ve gotta figure out the out of provincers thats gonna take a massive audit. But in this country whats on paper is law.

[@BikeHelmetMk2]

Very correct. If you want the invested money and growth to go back to people, you need to save and invest about 20% of income - not 3.6-12%.... (looking back at history) - CPP is woefully underfunded if you aren't structuring it to have money flow back into the pool for others.

[@matthewsemenuk8953]

more like "Additional refinements must* be needed for an actual calculation..." Good work LifeWorks.

[@tonysopranosduck416]

And Alberta also stated this and in fact had been requesting from Freeland their own calculations but were repeatedly ignored. It was only after the premiers meetings and pressure on freeland that she finally stated an actuary was going to do their calculations and get back to Alberta. There’s a lot that Canadians outside Alberta don’t hear about.

[@L0rd_0f_War]

1. Alberta obviously can't get 53% of the total pot, given their math would require the pot to be 900% of its actual size (if all provinces pull out). 2. Alberta would inevitably suffer in the next two decades due to a shrinking oil and gas economy. 3. What is it really that UCP/Ms. Smith wish to do with this share (whatever that may be) of the CPP fund? invest it themselves for even higher returns than the already one of the best managed funds? who will be responsible when Albertans suffer from poor financial and political decisions in 20 years time if oil and gas industry takes a nose dive? Is this Brexit levels of misrepresenting the 'financial benefit' of leaving the group?

[@gcc8584]

When will demand for oil and gas stop increasing?

[@monteljordanski]

​@@gcc8584 Albertas oil is much harder to extract

[@momtur4875]

@@gcc8584 About the same time coal did remember when Coal was King

[@blazingtrailsblogvideos1463]

Demand for oil and gas is not going to shrink in the next two decades. It is likely to even increase. Your grandchildren will have grown old and died and Alberta will still be making money from it's massive oil and gas reserves. I have a lot more faith in the economic future of Alberta than I do of Canada. Politicians will come and go but Alberta's natural resource wealth will support Albertans for generations yet. Almost everything in modern life relies on petroleum to some extent. Plus, if Alberta can stop it's participation in transfer payments it would be one of the wealthiest regions in the world. I am an Alberta senior collecting CPP and I would happily switch to an APP.

[@gcc8584]

@momtur4875 Thanks for the irrelevant input. My question was, when does demand for oil stop increasing? Demand for oil has to stop increasing year over year befor demand can begin to fall.

[@TheBHAitken]

My big question to Alberta is how does this affect Albertans who have worked in another province at some point in their lifetime? Did they expect us to have multiple CCP applications?

[@mattvan5100]

How does quebec do it? I'm sure it would be similar

[@prairiebrothers9044]

Easy, everyone is entitled to a proper percentage of the CPP or the new Alberta pension program relative to the amount contributed. Exactly the same way people who have pension funds with more than two companies…Nurses who move to different provinces are good examples

[@RK-vf4mo]

Albertans don't work in other provinces. Hahahaha they go to Alberta to work

[@dylanr8481]

​@@RK-vf4mono work elsewhere anyways

[@belledorris3163]

​@@mattvan5100so if u worked in quebec years and dont get paid because u dont live in quebec😂

[@GottaLovePartyin]

By far one of the best videos explaining this issue and how complex it is. Andrew, you’ve done it again!!

[@majormojo]

The fundamental issue is that from 1966 to 1998, the CPP was unfunded and the “deposits” just went to general revenue. It created a massive liability that governments kicked down the road for decades. The current fund is still sadly insufficient to pay all that is owed to Canadians.

[@catc8233]

Awesome explanation

[@shao5141]

Super well explained as always. Thank you sir!

[@wolfmangoland7972]

Alberta is better off if it is free from Canada. Free Alberta.

[@veenstramark]

I understand the arguments against Alberta leaving the Canada Pension Plan (CPP), as it would significantly affect the rest of Canada and might not appear equitable. However, a crucial point absent from the video is that a province’s well-being is directly linked to its willingness to extract natural resources, which explains why Alberta has been such a substantial contributor to the CPP. Furthermore, oil, the primary resource, is non-renewable and has a volatile market, and future Albertan's may not be able to rely on it as a sustainable source of income. Furthermore, should provinces that preserve their natural resources receive the same benefits as Alberta, presently monetizing them via extraction, and would they be as accommodating in relinquishing their benefits when Albertans face difficult times in the future. It seems like a one-way street to many Albertans. Alberta could also argue that CPP dollars that were not invested but instead spent on retirees in other provinces are rightfully owed to them, with interest. Additionally, should those who worked in Alberta but chose to retire elsewhere collect their pension and relocate their investment outside Alberta? As someone who formerly lived in Alberta and now works and lives in BC, I can appreciate the province's dillema. While I cannot support their departure from the CPP, I comprehend their viewpoint and concerns. I believe It is vital to reassure Alberta that we, as a country, support them, and we acknowledge their significant contributions to the Canadian economy and to retirees' welfare throughout the country. Furthermore, we must avoid further exacerbating provincial tensions and collaborate as Canadians to identify common ground and feasible solutions that benefit all citizens. An example of how we could do this would be to increase the CPP benefit for retirees who have worked in Alberta and choose to stay in the province. This adjustment could provide an economic boost for Alberta while also preventing funds from leaving the province. Additionally, other provinces can still obtain the benefits they currently recieve from Alberta. I think these measures would prevent Alberta from feeling that they are undervalued or taken for granted, while also maintaining the integrity of the CPP fund. It might help alleviate some of the tension that currently exists between the province and the rest of Canada while promoting a sense of co-operation and collaboration.

[@jasonkinzie8835]

I'm an Albertan and my first reaction was that we should stay in the federal program. But I wasn't sure about the math. I found this video informative. Truth is we're all Canadians and we all contributed no matter where we live.

[@geraldseivewright711]

we in he west need to separate

[@nicksmith9]

​@@geraldseivewright711you guys pay the most in heating yet have all the gas. Y'all voted in a government that's scamming you. The west will never seperate less than 6% support

[@kelgss8917]

We all contribute and get peanuts in the end because where contributing to the 5000 CPP union employees and their outrageous pensions.

[@DougJohns]

I have zero confidence that our government is capable of the math required to figure this out if it were to happen.

[@3baxcb]

If you're talking about the current provincial government in Alberta, then yes, you have good reason to worry about the way they do such calculations.

[@jacksparrow3025]

@@3baxcb You think the federal government is better? I am sure Trudy would do the 1 for you 2 for me math, but put into his own and friends accounts.

[@3baxcb]

@jacksparrow3025 Trudeau actually taught students how to learn and use math when he worked as a teacher for many years. He's been in federal politics longer than Smith has been in provincial politics and has provided assistance when necessary, whether it's economical or dealing with wildfires.

[@jacksparrow3025]

@@3baxcb Wow. That's some straight up CBC government funded talking points right there.

[@dough1968GMC]

@@3baxcb 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😅🤣😂🤣😂.... oooohhh .... eeewww ....🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

[@MrClearbox]

This video is wonderful. Thank you for this.

[@theflowpowa42oshow]

No thank you

[@audreydakin8130]

Excellent! Great job!

[@savannaha5038]

God, the UCP is such a circus

[@HeiSiLoi]

The only fair way to do that is to buy out the individual from the pension and then let the province figure out a way to incorporate that money into their new pension assuming that is what the people want to do with the money. The province has no entitlement to the money, the people do.

[@RobWall]

@@user-ec2nn6ht9r That's definitely a concern that many people have. CPP money is held by the CPP Investment Board, which is a crown corporation but not part of the government. CPP money does not go into general revenue as with taxes collected, but is kept completely separate and out of reach of the government.

[@f.f8079]

Tell that to Quebec. They have never been part of the plan and seem to be doing fine managing their pension plan.

[@BowtieJDP]

100% of the stolen money will go to UCP cronies and oops it’s all gone before we can retire.

[@jordanearl5449]

@@f.f8079 yeah cause they are a take province. they don't pay into anything and want the same privileges.

[@theflowpowa42oshow]

cake eaters @@jordanearl5449

[@1leah1]

This was excellent. Thank you for this series "About That". Andrew Chang is one of my favourite journalists.

[@anilp6699]

Nicely explained 👍🙏

[@3baxcb]

Such reporting on important issues is why journalism from our public news broadcaster is worth its weight in gold and a bedrock of democracy.

[@derkaderkajihadderka]

​@@3baxcbyeah Andrew Chang is a gem

[@3baxcb]

@@derkaderkajihadderka There can never be enough people like him. I hope he keeps this kind of analysis of stories for a very long time.

[@carlyar5281]

@@3baxcb you are 100% correct! Public broadcasting is vital for democracy. I am so glad that Andrew Chang is doing this series because it is fact-based, informative and well explained. In 2009, I wrote a paper for a military technology course at the Royal military college, and my thesis was about information operations and disinformation. This series is an excellent antidote for disinformation.

[@user-hj9xv4gp5e]

If my province managed the Alberta Heritage Fund i would very likely not be giving them control over another.

[@merrilynnmitten3911]

What if you worked in ALBERTa but are now living elsewhere I think that is not accurate because i don’t think they should get my investment returns

[@samuelldl]

The best way is that Albertan can stop CPP and start APP, when he/she retired, get both by separate calculation.

[@brovoker34]

Yeah exactly. It should be a choice that is PER CITIZEN. The problem is there is no way that Dani and the UCP cronies get enough money to start their investment fund (money channeling to oil and gas) if they let individual citizens choose. So they are using the same tactics that won the elections, outright lies manipulation. We'll see if it works

[@LiLi-ij5uk]

Alberta government is frauding Canadian. That is the most ridiculous calculation. Still don't understand how come half of Cpp assets are attributable to a small province compared to Ontario.

[@reversingglobalwarming9431]

This guy is good he should have his own show 😊

[@fredherfst8148]

Well done CBC

[@MagicMike_101]

The pool of retirement is a ridiculous idea. It should be calculated individually in the progress of investment during the person's life. Easy pease.

[@geoffreylee5199]

After spending their Heritage Fund, they will waste those monies.

[@debreeser]

I had exactly the same thought. The Conservative Party of Canada has been a bunch of grifters since Peter Lougheed retired.

[@sandysamith7218]

Dear fellow Canadians, don’t believe that all Albertans agree with that APP. You should see their « survey », a joke. I’m glad to contribute for the pensions of all Canadians, coast to coast!

[@zenzy88]

I’m an Albertan- I’m not on board with Smiths’ separatist attitude. We are one country, a team, we work together to support each other. A true sign of a healthy country is supporting every one of us, no matter who contributes how much. Go team Canada!!!

[@gallant00]

Can you imagine how messed up Alberta would be with Notley?

[@AHeinermann]

​@@gallant00no? It's already messed up under decades of conservative rule.

[@gallant00]

@AHeinermann hardly the NDP short experiment destroyed us. But I guess Alberta is the most sought-after place to move to under the conservatives. Your probably new to politics but nice try.

[@AHeinermann]

@@gallant00 lol... decades of conservative rule but only 4 years of NDP were somehow such a disaster that you will blame everything on forever into the future, yeah ok.

[@AHeinermann]

@@gallant00 No, not that new to politics, I get it. The cult only believes in conservatism like it's a religion and anything bad that happens is other peoples' fault. Stub your toe on the table, must be their fault. Collapse of world oil prices, also their fault... somehow!

[@LB20278]

What a great journalist!

[@LostAbroadVideos]

Your last statement, - "Going it alone, when times are good, doesn't seem that risky, but when things go sour, risk that doesn't spread evenly, can be very painful." In the full context you don't clarify that "some" other Provinces have had many "sour" years and it has been thankful to Alberta for "spreading that risk". The reality is though that when things go sour for Alberta have no doubt that they will already be sour for "some" other Provinces and there will be no wealth to spread out the risk. Quebec has never been a net positive contributor to either Canada's federal budget nor it's pension plan. In fact, Alberta, followed by Ontario, and British Columbia have filled that role of net positive contributors. Quebec is always arguing that they want to separate. I say let them go and cut the purse strings the second they step out the door.

[@tonyzhu403]

It is Math based on Incomplete Data, as an Albertan, I don't think it's right to take more than we deserve if we are leaving.

[@tommcd8471]

its the big ask, might actually get what we're properly owed if we're going for half of the entire thing.

[@ferociousfil5747]

@@tommcd8471but how many contributors currently live in Alberta? The amount should be considered by deciding between current residents not temporary residents that came to work and went back to there province.how about there contribution? It’s just another plot from Alberta to show how they are the Center of the universe.

[@jackiegriffiths7958]

Exactly. I have lived and worked in Ontario my whole life, I know Ontarians and Albertans have contributed a lot to CPP but not the percentages they are throwing out there. We are not entitled to bankrupt the whole thing, essentially stealing from the people in other provinces which according to "Alberta Math" is what would happen if both Ontario and Alberta pulled out. I am not ok ripping off my fellow Canadians. Every Canadian deserves fair compensation for the money they paid into CPP. Alberta thinking it deserves that much money is bad math, doesn't take so many factors into consideration and is an outlandish claim. Opt out, start a new provincial pension plan and anyone who worked previous to that can collect what is owed to them from CPP and also from what they paid into the new plan from the date it was started when they retire. They would just get an extra pension in old age. It think it's harder to keep track of for people who work in multiple provinces throughout their career but that might be the only reasonable solution other than people deciding if they want to personally opt out of CPP and make it an individuals choice since the government knows exactly how much each person has contributed.

[@tommcd8471]

@@ferociousfil5747 Honestly i don't care, Canadian politics have become a 0 sum game. The goal is to grab what we can and distance ourselves as much as we can from Ottawa. After everything Alberta has endured from Ottawa, i say screw it, go for it because its quite clear that no one is going to look after Albertans but Albertans.

[@octranspo_owl]

@@tommcd8471 You say "Ottawa" in a way that makes it seem like it's some sort of faceless city full of "elites" lmfao. Kinda funny. The federal government hasn't done anything to Alberta. Alberta just keeps kicking itself in the nuts then blames anybody other than themselves for fixating on a single economic source. BC doesn't complain and whine, neither does PEI, neither does Nova Scotia, neither does Manitoba. Just Alberta that does, mostly. You made fun of Quebec for wanting to separate just to clown yourselves into wishing to do the same. You're not a teenager.

[@mukesharora2053]

At least their is someone in CBC who knows his subject nicely. Great explanation.

[@nochancecw]

I really hope Alberta stays. We are always stronger when we work together as provinces. My fear is oil declines heavily in the next decades and they struggle with their provincial plan. That is the last thing i want for Albertan's. I worked there for a decade. It always took me back how some felt Albertan before canadian on some issues. It such a foreign concept to me.

[@landensabourin4976]

Probably KY because your a liberal

[@kioshiro482]

Arent you listening? 6:20 they basically describing a ponzi scheme. Regardless of your political belief, nobody wants their hard earned money to be used that way.

[@LetishaL]

@@kioshiro482 No, because Ponzi schemes leave someone short. CPP is guaranteed by law to always pay out.

[@Spicy007]

Until it runs out of money because someone with a actually economy (Alberta/Ontario) legally leaves and it runs out of money@@LetishaL

[@LetishaL]

@@Spicy007 Never runs out of money because the premiums just go up.

[@wc4109]

The CPP formula is so fundamentally flawed… just shows how Danielle Smith tried find diff. ways to benefit Alberta alone, don’t care about rest of Canada…

[@Theoryofcatsndogs]

I just hope someone can stop this crazy woman before she ruin Alberta. But it is really hard to shame someone who is shameless.

[@the1andonly]

I hope Danielle Smith watches this. Most Albertans don't believe in this stunt.

[@Blue84Stang]

I mean... I'm Albertan, and I believe in it, and in its necessity. I'm also the rare type, as I am Alberta born and raised, and current resident.

[@NitinSharma-xz4kn]

ah - I get it now, it is not Alberta's money - it is people's money; very good explainer CBC - really appreciate it 👍

[@tonyclemens4213]

Considering how Alberta managed some of its other funds I would be worried how they would manage a pension plan.

[@carlyar5281]

Exactly! One only needs to look at the heritage fund to realize that putting the Alberta government in charge of this is a very bad idea. I mean just look at what happened in 2019/2020 with the Rutherford scholarship.

[@globalbutterfly]

Right??! Where are those legacy funds we used to herald as part of the Alberta advantage.

[@Demane69]

I'm baffled how you think the current federal government is any better. Billions have been drained out of our Country over the last 8 years that will never benefit Canadians.

[@gordonwallin2368]

Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.

[@gordonwallin2368]

Good job, Andrew. Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.

[@Gomz1231]

Fantastic video Andrew. About That is an amazing segment started by CBC

[@danieldixon3648]

Here is a major problem. Many tens of thousands of Canadians from other provinces worked in Alberta for years to build their oil industry. I'm from Ontario. My wife's cousin and many of my friends are in the same situation. Why would my contributions of over 10 years go to Alberta? You could employ every actuary in the world on this problem and they would never be able to sort it out.

[@downbert]

The major problem is actually the Federal Liberals and their constant boot on the throat of Albertans and Canadian energy

[@ICEEIC]

Canada's Socialist programs ain't working. Not everybody benefits from CPP and EI. Now, the "East" is taking credit for "building Alberta's Oil & Gas"? Screw the "East", especially "Ontario".

[@TheTechnoPilot]

I love how their calculation completely ignores the number of Canadians who worked in Alberta but NEVER intended to live or retire in Alberta.

[@albundy9706]

It does not.

[@butwhytharum]

​​@@albundy9706 it does not where? In that asterisk statement of "this does not include migration workers" it would say they are leaving that factor out.

[@johnkatsaros7340]

Zero sum game. What about those contributing outside Alberta who intended to retire in Alberta.

[@Couladin-]

I love how the CBC report tries to "debunk" the math by saying that some of the funded Alberta dollars immediately went to pay premiums in another province and thus earned no ROR. Despite the other province theoretically having it's own contribution pool at the time, within the fund. Sounds like a ponzi scheme

[@TheTechnoPilot]

@@johnkatsaros7340 not anywhere close to as common. Nothing against Alberta, but you don’t even need to look closely at the numbers to know how many seasonal workers from all over Canada come to Alberta to work the oil patch and than go home to where they actually live and plan to retire.

[@sarahzagoda4837]

The UCP Alberta Government did say they would have a referendum to decide to pull from the CPP, but also passed a bill that means the referendum wouldn't be binding...

[@paininthepatoot]

Very informative. Thank you.

[@gordstevenson8545]

This was the most helpful explanation of both sides that I have heard. Thank you!

[@snowfolk]

Your last point hints at the reason for Smith's pulling out of the CPP: in her attempt to tank the national pension plan by pulling out most of the funds, she is taking a cue from Republicans south of the border. The GOP in the States have repeatedly said that they plan to eliminate their equivalent of CPP, which is Social Security. What isn't clear is why conservatives do not want retirees to have a pension, even though the funds for that pension come from the retirees themselves.

[@carlyar5281]

I was just talking about this with my mother, a retiree in Alberta. We agreed this is what you’re saying, the UCP are following models set by state GOP governments in the US. My theory is Danielle is doing this for three reasons: 1. Sow division and distract from the other restructuring, they are doing in the province (health care anyone?) 2. Waste federal government money, and hopefully get their hands on as much of the Canadians hard earned CPP contribution, and hopefully tank the federally administered CPP in the process. 3. Mismanage and reallocate funds out of APP and then cancel it.

[@amineaiffa]

It's because social security is a Ponzi scheme and is already showing signs of collapse. They can't even keep up with inflation. Just like all Ponzi schemes, they work great for the people who enter it early, but are a disaster for the people at the end of it when it collapses. It's on the US social security website that they will be insolvent in 2034, just 10 years away.

[@3baxcb]

At best, it's irrational and, at worst, it's quite malicious because it would make millions of Canadians wondering why they should ever trust Smith if that is how she treats them.

[@bigmike6461]

Simple, we are actually in a population deficit. We don't have the bodies for the work force if you allow people to retire.

[@niagarawarrior9623]

@@bigmike6461 i thought that's why we are getting record amounts of new citizens, to offset the population deficit?

[@michaelrobertson7370]

You know what's not fair? Being treated as the whipping boy of confederation while paying the ungrateful relatives to destroy us. That is where this is coming from - an abusive relationship that we are done with. Pay for yourselves for a change.

[@SonoftheWest316]

Stop blocking economic development and let our country prosper and we might not even be arguing about this.

[@brucemartin974]

I would be concerned that Alberta would use the contributions to their own pension plan to support the energy sector for political reasons. Since that sector is notoriously volatile it may have a disastrous effect on returns.

[@arianamckone7713]

Everything you said on here just confirms that the CPP is a bad investment for everyone, we would all be better off investing our own money. However nothing in this report proves that Alberta should stay in the CPP. I am for an APP

[@dwaynewladyka577]

Let's see what happened. In 2019, or in 2020, the UCP commissioned people to do a study to see how feasible an Alberta Provincial Pension Plan would be for Alberta. The report came back to the UCP and concluded that an Alberta Provincial Pension Plan is a very bad idea, and that it shouldn't be pursued. Out of being embarrassed, and going against their own narrative, the UCP wouldn't release the findings of the study to the public. It was only through FOIP, or through some other means, that people were able to access the findings of the study. The UCP lost $4 billion on a pension fund debacle, which further proves that an Alberta Provincial Pension Plan is a very bad idea. The UCP took control of teacher's pensions, without their consent, and put them into AIMCo. Before the 2023 provincial election in Alberta, Danielle Smith and the UCP said that the Alberta Provincial Pension Plan wouldn't be included on the provincial election agenda, because the UCP would have been defeated if it was. At provincial election forums, where the media were present, UCP MLAs told Albertans in attendance that the UCP had no intentions of touching the CPP of Albertans. The UCP's own questionnaire on the Alberta Provincial Pension Plan contains no yes or no answer on it, and it can be filled out multiple times, by one individual. Danielle Smith and the UCP refused to have public forums on the Alberta Provincial Pension Plan, because they know that backlash from the public will be very sharp. On her own phone in radio talk show, Danielle Smith refused to answer questions from Albertans who were concerned about losing their CPP, and she kept on deflecting. The UCP are blowing money on propaganda ads, which support the Alberta Provincial Pension Plan, even though they know it's a very bad idea. Danielle Smith makes an erroneous claim that Alberta is entitled to over half of the CPP, when it isn't, and yet she and the UCP are waiting for federal government numbers to show what she thinks Alberta is entitled to. If the UCP's own questionnaire on the Alberta Provincial Pension Plan is very biased, their very costly referendum on it will be. Recently, Postmedia (who owns multiple Canadian newspapers), was trying to get documents about the Alberta Provincial Pension Plan, from the UCP. The UCP refuses to comply, because they know their report on the Alberta Provincial Pension Plan is still very flawed, and very suspect. Jim Dinning, a former Alberta PC cabinet minister, opposed the Alberta Provincial Pension Plan, when he was in government. Now, he is being paid by outgoing premier, Danielle Smith, to support the Alberta Provincial Pension Plan. Danielle Smith didn't last long as the Wildrose party leader, because of what she said and did wrong. Danielle Smith won't complete a full term as premier of Alberta. Former Conservative politicians in Alberta have said that they don't trust Danielle Smith and the UCP, because they are so dishonest. The only good and sensible Conservative premier in Alberta was Peter Lougheed. There were absolutely no others at all.

[@Astr0b0y8]

So informative! Ty

[@adamjones7891]

This is a very useful video. I learned multiple facts I had not previously known about this issue.

[@lukestrachan3677]

So it looks like Alberta has contributed about a third of the CPP, so I think it would be fair to just take a third. The 53% is likely a negotiation tactic. But really, it's time for us to leave this "country". Shouldve done eight years ago when the writing was on the wall.

[@greatfrenchcanadian6800]

Great video, and very clear explanations. Thank you!

[@fiyamage]

Thanks for explaining this. I think I have a better grasp of the issue now.

[@albertan9386]

No mention that it was Paul Martin and then deputy Bank of Canada Tzar David Dodge who codified the CPP contributions only in 1995 so that all provinces involved in the CPP contributed every year. Most did not, putting the funds back into their Provincial coffers. Alberta was the only province that contributed every year since 1966.

[@NitinSharma-xz4kn]

I am a new Canadian and do not know this part its history this well enough but for some reason I have a feeling that what you are saying will be debunked soon enough (and that you have a MAGA hat hidden in your closet somewhere) no offence :)

[@1eftnut]

Did watch the video huh? 🤣

[@alad5926]

@@1eftnut What?

[@albertan9386]

May I ask you if you watched the video? The fact that some provinces only contributed a handful of times in 29 years (and this includes Ontario) explains why there is not more in the cupboard.@@1eftnut

[@millwrightrick1]

People contribute, not governments. There is also a max contribution you can make every year. So Ontario with 5 times the population pays in 5 times as much as the Alberta population.

[@rosieone5670]

I lived and contributed to Alberta’s economy, why was I not entitled to any of the Heritage Fund ?

[@petermartin4142]

Great session Andrew, we need more longform coverage of these issues and need to get this information in front of Canadians. This inside is what we miss on regular network TV now

[@olene184]

such a well formulated piece, much appreciated!

[@tomvanderschilden6636]

Excellent analogy, Andrew. Thank you 😊

[@tomaszczajkowski8015]

I agree with problem 2. Problem 1 says - hey you guys pay for my retirement now even though i did not contribute as much. Problem 3 is - i don't like the outcome, so will call it not fair. I think everyone is missing the big picture though - this is a move to highlight importance of economic contributions Alberta makes to Canada. And when you pass legislation, like C-69, to specifically target that province, you should expect consequences. Notice how they got everyone to meet about CPP but they really wanted to talk about economic development? If you missed that, well that is willful blindness. I am not from Alberta, but it seems like an easy fix is to work with them to ensure their economy is not stifled for ideological reasons. You do that, they will back off. You don't, and they will walk. Sure their share won't be 53%, but it will be large enough to hurt.

[@juliae5639]

You hit the nail on the head

[@p.s8945]

Love how CBC turns on comments when the video is an Alberta Hit Piece.

[@domieraci2370]

You nailed it my friend.

[@hoboonwheels9289]

My parents as farmers paid both sides of CPP, dad passed, mom gets half, where does the other half go? Why do we get less than half of what we contribute, if its "invested" properly?

[@G5rry]

It's a defined benefit pension - you get a certain amount each month for the rest of your life. If you live long, you get more than what you paid into it.

[@ericpaulhus1910]

Considering the oil they make all their money with actually belongs on ancestral Indigenous lands, I guess that the province, on its own, ain't worth much, since Indigenous peoples used to occupy most of the land before it was taken away from them...

[@felipearcanjo2908]

Well done. Make videos like this everyday and I will watch them!