Why Android 19 IS WEAKER Than Androids 17 & 18

#DragonBallZ #Android17 #Android18
Why is it that Android 19 is weaker than Androids 17 & 18? It has to do with multiple factors in dragon ball that include in-universe and outer universe reasons. Qaaman explains Androids 16, 17, 18, 19 & Dr. Gero as Androids 20 in today's Dragon Ball video.

[@Playmaster409]

For a smart man able to make cyborgs and androids he has done very dumb things.

[@QaamansLand]

Did you think about the guy who created Dr. Gero and the show that Dr. Gero exists in? Maybe that's the source of the problem...

[@Playmaster409]

@Qaaman I have thought about how gero made himself an android Ik TFS said he used his super computer but eh.

[@banshotenin1178]

@@Playmaster409 I think he's referring to Toriyama as opposed to Gero's super computer as Dr Gero existed before he created 19 that turned him into an Android.

[@chimpkuza8141]

"That's the joke."

[@gamergod3798]

How?

[@johnnycage112]

A more pressing question is why Gero didn't make himself into a infinite energy model like 17 and 18?

[@markstriker925]

Because Dr. Gero was too dam smart for the plot. He was smart enough to make Andriods stronger than Frieza. And made a bug Andriod that can absorb the information of the strongest Fighters. But the thought of giving himself infinite energy never cross his mind though lol.

[@grease_8387]

My theory is the infinite energy design is only possible if the model is mostly organic which is why he didn’t make 19 an infinite energy model either and his old body couldn’t support the infinite energy system

[@sp4rtan148]

@@grease_8387 This might be true considering the reactor itself is bio-organic.

[@111vincento]

@@grease_8387 the problem is that 16 is infinite energy too.

[@cody_king1994]

I think maybe the parts for that was limited for 2 people but i am not sure

[@jeremyabbott4537]

my headcanon is that 19 was originally built as a lab assistant, an android with precision and accuracy. A creation able to do brain surgery. After Gero was turned into 20, he then retrofitted 19 with an energy absorption system and additional combat programming. 20 overestimated both his and 19's capabilities because of his hubris, he didn't think they'd need the sheer power the other androids had. I honestly wished they stuck around a bit longer because I thought the whole energy absorption premise was really cool and would have allowed more martial arts and less ki blasts.

[@QaamansLand]

Why is he fat then

[@jeremyabbott4537]

@@QaamansLand don't kinkshame Gero pls

[@kanyonwilson3223]

@@QaamansLand Probably to fit in the parts to make energy absorption work faster. In DBZ Geros energy absorption is actually slower than 19s. We see this in the show as it takes forever for Gero to absorb Piccolo's power.

[@kanyonwilson3223]

@@QaamansLand This would also explain why 19 was having such a hard time with Vegeta. They were built to absorb energy quick. Vegeta's energy in his Super Saiyan form was too large for him to absorb quickly. He made the mistake of constantly trying to grab Vegeta and beat him by draining him, instead of staying at a distance and forcing Vegeta into a battle of endurance.

[@AtomicF0x]

@@QaamansLand I heard in the lore that 19 is fat because his design was based off a doll from an enemy nation that the Red Ribbon Army fought back in the day. I'm guessing Gero thought the doll's appearance was interesting enough to incorporate into one of his androids.

[@juansanchez209]

Power = control. Gero needed the androids to be strong in order to kill Goku, but he made 17 and 18 TOO strong, hence he had trouble controlling them. He learned from this mistake and purposely made 19 weaker in order to control him

[@QaamansLand]

That's not completely true. Watch the video before commenting .

[@gamewithadam7235]

It's true he did make android #18 weaker than #17 to make her easier to control as well.

[@QaamansLand]

I said not "completely true" I explained right at the start...

[@mr.patriotjol]

@@gamewithadam7235 if I remember correctly, that was the case because they were an absorption model which made it easier to control.

[@QaamansLand]

That's the in-universe reason but I provided in outer-universe reason too.

[@AtomicF0x]

I'm glad Toriyama liked 19 and 20 the way they were---and that they were his _first_ choices when designing new villains for the Android Saga. I've recently renewed interest in the Android Saga myself and I think 19 in particular is really cool. Out of all the other androids in their saga, he and Gero are really the last true soldiers left of the Red Ribbon Army. Their grudge against Goku is perhaps the biggest and most personal. I've also always had a fascination with characters who are capable of absorbing energy. I've even recently bought a jumbo sized figure of 19, as well as Budokai 1 for the PS2 so I can play as him again. Sure, 19 may not have been the strongest, but he still had a unique design and got to fight against _two_ super saiyans! Besides, I figure that most people's favorite characters eventually get killed anyway, so we might as well appreciate them for what they are.

[@Funky_Item]

that earing thing android 19 did where he flicks it and it flashes was so cool for no reason, definitely seemed like a big villain thing to do lol. trying to imagine toriyamas original plan with them seems so crazy now

[@AtomicF0x]

@@Funky_Item Yeah the earing flick is a neat stylistic choice. I noticed Android 17 does it too, although I forget if 18 ever does it herself... As for Toryiama's original plan for 19 and 20; one can only guess. But part of me wonders if they were supposed to do what _Cell_ ended up doing: as in, going from town to town and absorbing people's energy in order to get stronger. Then, in keeping with the theme of Gero's revenge for the Red Ribbon Army being destroyed, 19 and 20 would take the bodies and retrofit them with cybernetics (like how 17 and 18 were made) to rebuild the Red Ribbon Army with androids. Obviously, the new foot soldiers wouldn't be _as_ powerful as 17 or 18 (likely due to time constraints and obedience concerns), but they might still be formidable enough to keep the Z-Fighters busy while 19 and 20 grow in power.

[@nok4799]

Giga fucking based Android 19/20 enjoyer.

[@shameronstar7220]

17 and 18 were designed specifically to complete Cell’s evolution. 19 was more of a personal assistant to Dr. Gero. Android 16 was made with the goal of going on a suicide mission, so every creation had its purpose.

[@DSan-kl2yc]

I don't think that was 16's role

[@shameronstar7220]

@@DSan-kl2yc What do you think Dr. Gero built him for? From what I know 16 was based on Gero’s son so maybe there was some sentimental value there?

[@hirohiro5034]

His purpose was to self destruct on Goku?

[@shameronstar7220]

@@hirohiro5034 If 16 couldn’t beat Goku the bomb would be the last resort

[@justinarzola4584]

​​@@shameronstar7220 he definitely was created as an attempt to bring back his son back, that begs the question of why he would plant a bomb in his chest just to kill goku if he didn't want to lose him again but i guess gero cared more that goku was dead.

[@NoLimitSquad]

19: Would you like to send a report? 20: Dont send the bloody report!- 19: Sending report 20: *BUGGERALL* !

[@Codezer0xshinzu]

Honestly it was terrifying first seeing gero and 19 hovering over the air blowing up the area of the city then eye beaming buildings just because the z fighters wanted to relocate poor yamcha.

[@Danosauruscrecks]

19 was weak because he couldn't do what he was built for which was to absorb energy. If the z fighters were weaker he would of absorbed all of their energy and became more powerful

[@QaamansLand]

Nope. Watch the video

[@Danosauruscrecks]

@@QaamansLand I agree with what you're saying in the video but my point is still valid. If 19 and 20 were to actually be successful in what they were doing they get more powerful every time they absorb energy. So if they were actually able to do so they would be more powerful than 17 and 18 in the long run

[@Codezer0xshinzu]

​@Danosauruscreck power wasn't the problem with Android 17 and 18 it was stamina which gero and 19 didn't have 18 and 17 would just wear them out and would just blitz just like they did gero especially in the original timeline they won't give him a chance

[@zaccompton5148]

@@DanosauruscrecksI haven’t watched the video yet, but I can assume he’ll be talking about the purpose of 19…he was basically created to help create android 20. Been a while since I’ve read the manga. But I believe that was basically what his purpose was. Nothing really even related to fighting or power. Just someone to follow orders

[@itzYonko]

@QaamansLand You're still wrong my man.

[@Eric-gp3hi]

Nice video Qaaman. It thanks to Torishima that we have Android 17 and Android 18, Android 16 and Cell in Dragonball due to him giving Toriyama advice about the main villains in the Cell Arc. I consider Android 19 to be the weakest Android in Dragonball!

[@Celerott]

Looking at the arc from an in universe perspective, I've always had a theory about No. 19 and 20. In the original timeline No. 17 and 18 were only as powerful as present 19 and 20, but when Trunks screwed with the timeline, it not only changed the order of the Artificial Humans and added more, but changed their levels of power too. At least that's what I think. But that's just me.

[@lordbiscuitthetossable5352]

In my mind, 19 was perfectly designed to handle his targets, just he had no idea SSJ existed (even though he collected Freiza's DNA? Though it's automated, I guess for Cell's creation.) and likely figured that while 19 wasn't as strong as 17 and 18? They were both overoptimalised for the task anyway. Absolute overkill. 19 would've slaughtered Goku if he wasn't as strong as he was, and even Vegeta took a massive amount of "damage" despite seeming to defeat 19 easily. Though I think it's the classical writing of his time; he introduced an adversary, added a twist (these aren't the droids you are looking for?) and made the situation worse (by adding Android 16, a complete unknown factor. Then later Cell when someone didn't think the Androids were villainous enough.)

[@mr.patriotjol]

I think if they really wanted to Retcon this, they would’ve kept 19 and 20 as the original threats from the future, but 17 and 18 showed up unexpectedly and started to go hell on everyone. But I guess in this situation for the anime’s perspective, we can say it was because of a time paradox that 19 and even 16 weren’t in the future

[@QaamansLand]

Well you saw the interview itself.

[@reptilian_geneticist]

Would've definitely been better if kept that way... the androids from Trunks timeline should be 19&20

[@thegreatbeavers]

Akira's Editor: " Eh really? An old man and a Fat Guy? What's Next? Two Brats? No not that Bug Guy. Nah. Still look like a Meathead. AH! YES! Perfect Cell! That's The Main Villain! Trust me Toriyama San! My expertise in knowing what's best for this Manga will surely bring in more fans than that silly idea of an Old Man and a Fat Guy lol.. Lemme guess? Dr. Wily and Megaman?! LOL! Oh Toriyama San such a jokester! "

[@thegreatbeavers]

Truly just another example of someone else chiming in instead of just letting The Original Writer do as he pleases. Maybe if Android 19 and 20 somehow survived and maybe became The Goku Black in Dragonball Super, it likely would work but yeah instead there's Goku Black in Super meaning another idea thrown in.

[@mr.patriotjol]

@@reptilian_geneticist i was sorta referring to the idea that 19 and 20 targeting the people and fight the z warriors in the future as well because in the future, 17 and 18 were already out of their pods. So maybe it could’ve been cool to see 17 and 18 showing up unexpectedly after 19 died, instead of Gero running back to his lab like he did in the present

[@amongstus4418]

Good question on why didn't Gero make himself as strong as or at least equal to 17 or 18. I guess he couldn't make himself as strong as 16 since he was a full android, but he theoretically should've been able to make himself as strong as 17. The story still could've progressed as shown since maybe he couldn't make himself strong enough to take on both 17 AND 18 at the same time and that's how they overpower him, but in both the Anime and Manga it's definitely shown that he's an absolute pushover.

[@agzone7226]

People ofter forget how creepy Dr. Gero was: he kidnapped two teen gangsters, turned them into cyborgs against their will, put them in a coma, created ANOTHER android to remove his brain and transplant it to a robotic body, leaving his own body to die.

[@Eric6761]

And created a monster to absorb them and keep in mind that in Super, 17 said he could recognise Goku voice because he had barely conscience but heard him, which gets Dark when considering Cell would let them trapped inside him until he meets his demise

[@futureDreamer4]

Gero should have built an off switch inside of his body to control the androids. Albeit he should never tell them about the extra off switch.

[@Telarius]

I wonder if anddroid 19 has the potential if he absorbs enough energy to be stronger than 18 and 17. Since he go significantly more powerful after absorbing energy.

[@Hektols]

My theory is more simple, due to their ability to absorb energy 19 and 20 could become stronger than 19 and 20, that's the reason they headed to that city to absorb people's energy and get a massive powerup instead of going directly to Goku's home. When Cell first appeared he was also weaker than 17 and 18 but ended getting stronger than them by absorbing people.

[@AtomicF0x]

Yeah, I feel if 19 and 20 had stayed the main villains of the Android Saga, they would have gone on to fulfill a role very similar to Cell's in that they would drain whole towns dry of energy before taking on the Z Fighters.

[@Spicystachegamer]

​@@AtomicF0xthey almost were the main villains before the editors changed it.

[@E1N9A8N0DA]

#19 is a power-absorbing model, and as such, he must have a base power level and absorbs his enemy's energy to surpass them so it's not a question of whether he's weak or strong. As Piccolo said (in the French dub) regarding #19 and #20's power, as they were fighting in the canyons, either the androids weren't that much of threat, either they trained so hard and so well that they went beyond their level.

[@youngsmitty347]

I always figured that after 17 and 18 went rogue, Gero decided to make 19 in a hurry as a replacement unit to take on the Z-Fighters before he decided to put his brain into an android unit too. I think 19 has the potential to be a deadly adversary for the Z-Fighters, but needed more time in the workshop before he's let loose.

[@gamewithadam7235]

I think it would have been awesome if the saga just had android #19 and #20. #20 retreats to activate cell. And they team up. #20 is on the verge of dying and just holding on while cell is absorbing the characters to get more powerful. Cell absorbs #20 and grows a moustache. The perfect moustache. He then gets clown pants after absorbing #19's head.

[@josean6287]

This even explains why the entire saga was so messed up with his timeline... they were so unsure on who was going to be the main villain that they made Cell come from a third one like "F it"

[@lsixty30]

This is why, as much as I love the cell arc, I can't see why people call it better than the Freeza arc. He literally only made the character because of three complaints about enemy versions he was fine with already. Though to be fair, you could say that Toiyama having a more involved not-editor improved his work, which is pretty common for artists, especially musicians and story tellers who tend to go on to long or not realize what to draw out more because it's superior.

[@lsixty30]

It is cool how there is this implied chain of events where Gero wants to bring his son back and has to do a series of kidnappings and experiments. Why he chose to be a power drain model? Maybe he thought they had higher potential? Who knows, not Akira lol (love the man dont get me wrong) *and how would he have controlled cell? Maybe by absorbing his power? Or the real answer: there was never a plan because it was never written lol

[@Anthonycheesman33]

Akiras editor was basically his j Jonah Jameson lol.

[@undyingsoul3949]

I'm not too sure about C19, but I would have totally dug C20 being one of those unstoppable cyborgs. His design and introduction with him going through Yamcha's chest was pleasantly shocking and fitting for how Trunks spoke of the cyborgs.

[@mdxque8393]

The good doctor might have both overestimated #19’s abilities and underestimated everyone else’s. To be fair though 19 did hold it’s own against SSJ Goku (Goku was sick but still) even though Gero didn’t even know about the SSJ legend.

[@gamewithadam7235]

But how did Gero know android #19 would be weaker than his own android form before becoming an android himself? Or does it mean he was able to ramp down #19s energy or somehow deactivate him and transfer some of his energy to himself so that he remains the most dominant. Or can Gero's hands absorb energy from #19 and give power back to #19 and #19 cannot absorb from #20 but is able to give energy to #20.

[@QaamansLand]

Please explain what you are really asking. I'm confused at your question.

[@gamewithadam7235]

@@QaamansLand How could he have created #19 before he became an android knowing that #19 would be weaker than his android #20 form? My headcanon is he had some means to adjust #19's power or transfer the energy to himself to the point where he had the bulk of the power. Something to do with them both sharing the same absorption hands. It would make a lot of sense to me, for example, if Android 20 (gero) dies before #19 then #19 is also destroyed or deactivated. Therefore, android 19 would be loyal to the point of protecting him from death, because at least he has a chance of being rebuilt from a self preservation standpoint. While he is definitely dead if gero is destroyed and #19 doesn't take the bullet for him. It also crushes the arguments of why Gero made his android form so weak and energy absorption models being weaker. Perhaps Gero was capable of making himself as strong as 17 and 18 but he's not a fighter and decided instead to sacrifice around 40% of his energy to android 19 to have a capable servant so that he can multitask. The end goal could have been to absorb enough humans to surpass 17 and 18 in strength or be on par with them. So that he could reactivate them and do more experiments. We saw what a boost cell got from absorbing humans for example. There may have been plans, starting with that island to absorb humans and slowly build up their energy or find capable humans to make a new android that would have been like 17 and 18 with infinite energy but weaker than gero himself. It could have resulted in present timeline cell having 3 androids to absorb instead of 2.

[@QaamansLand]

​@@gamewithadam7235 The answer is most likely that he always planned to be an Android and built a weaker energy model first

[@gamewithadam7235]

@@QaamansLand How would he have understood he can make himself more powerful than a weaker model? Like he made 19 stronger initially and reduced the power and commanded him to make himself the stronger version. #19 can also disobey him and kill him easily in his human form. He does not have to obey. This implies that part of 19's design would be a form of automatic deactivation if gero was harmed or he had thoughts of harming gero. Perhaps it was easier to implement this in 19 than 16, due to 16 being based on the personality of his son and so having human like reasoning skills. While 19 is more robotic in personality. I guess he wanted himself stronger just in case 19 would try to build his own android to repair him after destroying gero. So that he could physically stop him. For all we know, it was android 19 who was making android 16 and not gero. He had to do a lot of things to make sure 19 was loyal, and this was easier in a weaker android who has no personality only coding and no biology. The downside is a robot is not as creative or instinctual or intuitive as a human might be in battle. Hence why gero survived. 19 would likely not have thought to attack Bulma in the same situation and escape. Gero needed a capable bodyguard and he served that purpose, but ideally he probably wanted one who could think like Cell. Not smarter than himself, but adaptable and will follow orders. He did not manage to achieve this so he was likely working towards it. Possibly planning to make himself as strong as first form cell to control him easier. Maybe not even allowing him to absorb 17 and 18 until he follows orders. Perhaps only allowing him to absorb one android after he had gotten to the predicted 2nd form cell level of power. Gero noted 19 was greedy with Vegeta. If 19 had a human brain he might have transferred some energy to Gero to allow a more superior android to deal with Vegeta as Gero likely intended. Instead, he was programmed to deal with the next threat and giving Gero energy would risk gero's life because he'd be the one fighting instead of 19 and then 19 would have to escape instead if he wasn't automatically deactivated. So the logical solution to a computer is for 19 to battle Vegeta instead of gero. Clearly the wrong decision to a human brain. Any human would have given gero significant reserves of energy to handle vegeta, but a computer that is coded to protect gero's life at all costs would not do such a thing.

[@trentonbates3114]

I've always wondered what saga z fighters where the androids designed to deal with. Because if they didn't know about ssj doesn't that mean the androids were meant for the saiayan Era z fighters???🤔

[@Eric6761]

Okay but what stopped 20/Gero to give himself the same boost as 16, couldnt he reply the power or what?

[@noexcusesjustpudding]

I wonder what would've happened if #19 failed the operation on gero and accidentally killed him. His master is no longer alive, and he has no orders. Would he just do nothing until the end of time or would he try to take over from gero? Maybe the super computer could give him new orders? Would #17 and #18 even be released from their pods? And what would Cell do?

[@northeastoperations]

I think it would have been easy to explain in the show. 19 and 20 ARE more advanced but are not combat oriented models. Maybe 19 and 20 are suited to production of more androids, medical or even scientific analysis. Systems that are not important with battle but are very important operating on someone or conducting examination and cross-referencing data.

[@thetrocch365]

The main question i have is why disnt gero make himself like 17 and 18 with unlimited energy? Like the model he was flawed in that he would eventually tire out.

[@KozmicHand]

Qaaman do you think Cell would have disposed of Gero had Gero lived long enough for Cell to grow into "imperfect"?

[@Eric6761]

Well if we go for FighterZ game Cell says that he doesnt dislike Gero but if he got in his way he would destroy him and in raging blast 2 Both share some almost friendly interactions

[@tyrannotherium7873]

Interesting

[@angrygarbanzo5436]

Kind of wonder what the arc would’ve been like if Gero stayed the main villain, in retrospect.

[@SonnyDha_B]

A real debate would be Z Broly(Post Movie) vs Fat Buu

[@jahizgod]

So do you think that trunks in the unseen timeline killed android 17,18,19 and 20? Before he was killed by Cell?

[@freelands8355]

The editor failed to see how dangerous 17 and 18 could have been. He only saw appearances.

[@fuccyofeelings8718]

Well tbh all the editoral changes made one of the best sagas DB has ever had so it was a win for the fans

[@goatinaroun1944]

Even cell being his ultimate plan in the end was a mistake because at some point, cell also would have turned on gero

[@ryanhiggins8869]

I always figured that he was just running out of funding as he went along creating new models

[@DenniDownBad]

If Androids 19 & 20 can absorb energy, how much can they absorb? Is there a limit to much they can absorb? Would they overload with too much energy or would they absorb so much to a point where it wouldn't make them much stronger at all like Cell's absorptions (compared to absorbing 17 & 18) or Zenkai Boosts (later in the series where they seemed more negligible)? A dimishing return type of situation?

[@QaamansLand]

Yakon?

[@DenniDownBad]

@@QaamansLand Yeah I guess a situation like Yakon would occur. I don't see either Android 19 or 20 absorbing the energy of something greater than a Super Saiyan. But Super Android 17 ate a Kamehameha x10, so I guess how strong an Android is initially counts towards how much energy they can absorb/take.

[@rainbowfish420]

Did your voice get deeper??

[@QaamansLand]

How long has it been since you watched me

[@banshotenin1178]

I actually assumed it was the other way round, with Android 13 being the strongest, then 16, then 17, then 18. And 20 (Gero) and 19 being the exception. I had no idea it was his editor who changed the whole story.

[@arrowofGod86]

So if it wasn't for that editor guy, the android saga would have been extremely boring and we would have never gotten Cell.

[@vle23]

I would also like to mention is that between androids 19 and 20 they are the energy absorption models which allowed gero to even control 19 in the first place deemed a success for him. 17 and 18 on the other hand (including 16) are the infinite energy models. Between energy absorption models vs infinite energy models energy absorption models rely on ki absorption from other living beings to replenish their own supply whereas infinites they never run out where they even need to absorb energy. Just giving out my 2¢

[@QaamansLand]

Did you comment before watching?

[@vle23]

No I didn’t I just thought of a comparison between 19 & 20 compared to 16, 17, and 18 based on watching it if my point however was wrong i also based off a scene in dbz anime/manga alike where piccolo asked future trunks if 17 & 18 could absorb energy like the other models trunks then said no their energy lasts forever

[@CJ-111]

Why could he not make himself an infinite energy model?

[@ShoeHefner757]

Would Cell been obedient the to Gero?

[@Anthonycheesman33]

I’m glad 19 and 20 weren’t the final villians but at the time I would have been totally fine if they were . It would be interesting though to see how the arc would have played out if android 19 and 20 were the big bads .

[@justinarzola4584]

I would have liked to see gero as main villain and have a redemption or team up with the z fighters of some sort against cell for betraying him(assuming cell didn't kill him right there),i doubt it would have of happened given gero himself was never as powerful as 17,18 or cell but it still would have cool i think.

[@CoolOkay_]

Maybe they should've done that in the Dragon Ball Super Super hero movie instead of bringing out cell max.

[@jacobwest7]

It makes great sense till you think about how 16 was stronger than the others yet seemed more obedient, he could have made several 16 like androids instead of trusting in the whole cell plan to work

[@Dr.PaiPai]

Why couldn't Toriyama just given the designation of 19 and 20 to 17 and 18? Which would make Trunks saying 19/20 being to the ones to destroy the world would make sense.

[@mikemackay86]

He should have just made his own android body more powerful than the other models

[@karnage2948]

I do question why dr gero wouldn’t make himself an infime Android model, clearly the energy absorbing models were far inferior in terms of strength

[@markmagician2471]

Gero wanted a robot he could control

[@dionysisnance4204]

As team four star vegeta once said My heart is pure pure unadulterated badass

[@chimpkuza8141]

Its funny how one man going "okay boomer" to Toriyama resulted in creating arguably one of the best sagas in Dragonball. If not for him, Cell would not exist and we would not have DA vids to laugh and cringe to 😂

[@Eric6761]

Toriyama dodged several bullets inserting Cell

[@HTPl862]

My theory was he couldnt turn himself into an infinite energy model android like 16, 17, and 18, because the process was too intricate and fickled to program 19 to do it to him. Combined with maybe his body being unable to sustain the energy anyways since it was to old, and unwilling to lose his brain he decided "fuck it" and went with energy draining models anyways since they would of been good enough according to his calculations and he had waited long enough for his revenge (he was unwilling to wait the 20 years or so for Cell even though theoretically he should of stayed alive that long as an Android). So he made 19, made himself 20 and a stronger model than 19, and was grossly wrong in his power projections and was forced to wake 17 and 18. One could even assume events played out similarily in Trunk's timeline. 19 and 20 showed up. Bulma and Gohan hear reports of two people destroying shit. The z fighters show up, minus Gohan since he might have been told to stay back just in case something bad happens and was likely largely out of practice in this timeline. Z fighters show up and maybe hold a bit against 19 a bit since they would of all still been training especially Piccolo and Tien. Super Saiyan Vegeta shows up and mops the floor just like in modified timeline. Gero escapes and wakes up 17 and 18. Without the z-fighters knocking literally at his door( no Bulma there to spectate since this wasnt all planned, thus she cant tell them who/where Gero is) Gero is a bit more composed and might have hid or destroyed 16's pod. 17 and 18 kill Gero. 17 and 18 dispatch z-fighters after asking where Goku is and finding out he died. So to Bulma and Gohan, reports of two people wrecking shit happened, and now 17 and 18 are loose and wrecking shit so 19 and 20 were there, but since anyone who saw/knew about them is dead including the Androids, then Future Bulma/Gohan/Trunks only knew about 17 and 18. Really for being a clusterfuck of re-writes and course changes, Toriyama lucked out it all still can make sort of sense, because Im sure he didnt have all this planned out. The biggest complaint is Cell's "I was too big to fit into the time machine" like really? You couldnt have just taken out the chair and squeezed in? He wasnt that much bigger than trunks lol. Also, how did he work the machine from inside his egg?

[@shameronstar7220]

It’s like modern technology. More advanced and easier to control but fragile.

[@dabithesaiyanuchihaprince]

My dog died no amount of Dragonball could change that...

[@SamsarasArt]

19 seemed to be designed this way because it would be easier to control than 17 and 18.

[@0vern9K]

It wasn’t a retcon he just changed the villains. Yes he originally intended for 19 and 20 to be the focus but it wasn’t like they were already the arc had literally just started. He didn’t retcon it he just changed it. It wasn’t set in stone 19 and 20 were the big bads because we didn’t know this… if tori never even admitted so we all would believe events said we’re due to the butterfly effect. From trunks, and cell

[@KingSalaman]

I always wondered what would happen if gero met cell/android 16. Would cell/16 respect him? Or kill him?

[@darrylreedy5079]

I feel like Cell would probably kill him eventually if he became too controlling

[@KingSalaman]

@@darrylreedy5079 possibly, when cell spoke to trunks about all he had to go through to become perfect, he spoke of dr Gero with high praise calling him a genius for making him, of course it could be perfect cell just giving himself a pat on the back lol typical narcissist cell. 16 is a pacifist so I’m pretty sure he would leave him alone, plus he must’ve been programmed to see him as a father so he’d treat him like #19 did.

[@tyrannotherium7873]

It does make sense

[@devaughnfranklin6683]

Because Dr Gero Didn’t Apply Himself To Busy On The Hub

[@Trust-Yourself-1st]

I read this and was thinking phone OS's for a second 🤣🤣🤣

[@Revolution5268]

I always believe he made himself like that cause he could get stronger by absorbing people's energy without the need to modify the android body. Kind of similar to super android 17 but without the whole body absorbs energy plot armor BS.

[@justinarzola4584]

If Gero was smart he could of transplanted all the other androids and cells powers for himself so he wouldn't die and be stronger.

[@whoisthis99995]

What if Mr Satan defeated Cell?

[@TacticalSnapBack]

What about Android 8?

[@kurlexchoi]

Why Android 19 is not exist in Future Trunk time line is what I like to know?

[@AndrewAce.]

19 was the weakest android we saw during the Saga. Gero wanted something effective, but moreso controllable, and as we saw, even 19 had a level of autonomy. When he ran from Vegeta, his fear overrode his programming... He was more afraid of Vegeta than obedient to Gero, meaning power level is a factor in the android's behavior...

[@QaamansLand]

Do Androids experience fear?

[@AndrewAce.]

@@QaamansLand Only when they're mid-ass-whooping, it seems . . .

[@Karma-dy8xc]

I just feel like Gero shouldn’t have rushed his creations and taken more time with it if he was truly trying to kill Goku

[@thedredayshow9246]

Toriyama: Finally done with the villains of the Android saga! I'm proud of myself! Torishima: That's gonna be a no from me, dawg.

[@Eric6761]

I love torishima changes but i understand Toriyama, he came up with 4 diferent designs of characters excluding Gero and 19 to Torishima refuse them

[@GodShadowdeath]

The other thing is he had a dwindling budget

[@smaragdchaos]

Basically the biggest reason is Toriyama's editors making him change the main villain multiple times that androids 19 and 20 ended up becoming weaker than their predecessors, which I think is still a wasted opportunity tbh

[@goblin7372]

He could have still had made 19 and 20 be stronger than 16,17,18. He could wrote it to where 20 made 16,17,18 before converting him self and having had a hard time controling them. He made 19 in order to keep the others in control, then he could have converted himself into 20 being the strongest next to cell. 20 would still created cell as his secret weapon and would activate upon 20's death and cell would still go back in time and absorb 17&18 and the cell games would still happen but with 19,20 and cell. 19 fights all the lower z fights one at a time and wins each time, piccolo gave him a slight run for his money but still loses, next is 19 vs Vegeta and Vegeta wins easy, next is 20 vs Vegeta and 20 wins, next is Goku vs 20 and Goku wins, next is cell vs Goku and Goku gives up like in the original and cell and Gohan fight now. The other z fighters have kinda rested with all the other fights where going on. The fight goes the same as in the show cell make his Jr cells and they fight the z fighters and everything else is the same as in the show. That would have been the better way to write it

[@gamergod3798]

I think youre wrong on some parts. He didn't MAKE 17 and 18 have free will. They already have free will. They arent really "androids" theyre more cyborg-ish. ACTUALLY, they're just genetically modifed and enhanced humans. Androids 17 and 18 are different from Android 19 in several ways: Origin: Androids 17 and 18 were originally humans who were genetically modified and enhanced by Dr. Gero. They retain some organic components, such as their brains and other body parts, alongside their cybernetic enhancements. In contrast, Android 19 is a fully robotic creation of Dr. Gero without any organic components. Free will: Androids 17 and 18 possess free will and independent thought. They can make their own decisions and act autonomously. This allows them to have personalities, desires, and the ability to rebel against Dr. Gero's commands. On the other hand, Android 19 lacks free will and acts solely under the control of Dr. Gero. Using that info you can sort of conclude that the reason the androids are stronger could be: 1. Human base: Androids 17 and 18 were originally humans who underwent extensive modifications, granting them enhanced physical capabilities. Their human base provides a solid foundation for their strength and potential. 2. Genetic enhancements: Dr. Gero utilized advanced genetic engineering techniques to enhance the physical abilities of Androids 17 and 18. These modifications augmented their strength, speed, and overall combat potential, making them formidable opponents. 3. Adaptability: Androids 17 and 18 have free will and independent thought, allowing them to continually train, learn, and improve their combat skills. Their ability to strategize and adapt during battles gives them an advantage over less flexible opponents. 4. Energy absorption limitations: While Android 19 has the ability to absorb energy from other beings, its capabilities are not as versatile or potent as those of Androids 17 and 18. Androids 17 and 18 possess a wide range of combat techniques and abilities, including the ability to generate and manipulate energy (ki), which gives them an edge in battles. 5. Dr. Gero's design choices: Dr. Gero may have deliberately designed Androids 17 and 18 to be stronger and more capable than Android 19. He might have allocated more resources and enhancements to their development, as they were intended to be his ultimate creations.

[@JJJJ-he8bz]

Because that is what the writers wanted it to be

[@ishaanarora9113]

Based on your logic, Android 8 should be more powerful than Zeno 😅

[@QaamansLand]

Huh?

[@molybdaen11]

It's quite easy. Dr. Gero wanted to make absolutely sure to kill son Goku because he blamed him for the death of his son. This is why he prepared multible plans. Strengthen himself, build androids, build cyborgs and build a bio weapon. The android he made after his son, 16, was designed to carry on his will of revenge with raw power and nothing else. Android 17 and 18 were his wild cards he only planed as suprise if something would go wrong. Originally he wanted to kill goku himself. Android 19 is a one trick pony he made afzer seeing gokus ki power on namek to drain him empty before finishing him off himself. And cell was just a prototype, designed as his last duck you if all other plans would fail.

[@brotwater8863]

And then there’s 16 who’s just the strongest Android. Wonder why he didn’t just finish him considering he was pretty much a success other than his gentle attitude

[@Light_VIP]

I feel like all Toriyama had to do was name Androids 16-18, 21-23 instead. Then we wouldnt have to use our own head cannon to try and make it all make sense.

[@t1h_tvj212]

Basically gero was stuck between the fact that his enemies were getting stronger and stronger than him but his creations if stronger than himself would likely turn on him .

[@liamwarner5749]

This is why you hardwire their bombs to your "life signs" they kill you they die.

[@t1h_tvj212]

@@liamwarner5749 that would have been very smart but a weakness since if they killed gero, which they had many chances to then the rest would die

[@liamwarner5749]

@@t1h_tvj212 This is something that bugs me about a lot of fanfics the author kills off some characters they don't like without thinking about the impact of those characters not being there. "Oh I don't like Mr Broody so he dies" and so do all the people he saves later on.

[@NeroPiroman]

13 us the best model because he has a trucker hat

[@jaytown4185]

What if goku absorbed the spirit bomb agains buu!!

[@RaySimmons-ch2xz]

Even if Android 17 and 18 did not kill Dr. Gero Cell was going to eventually do it.

[@diogoantonio3644]

I prefer to think that 20 is weaker then 17/18 because Gero was turned into a cyborg by 20, he wasent the one that created himself,maybe he made the blueprints years ago before he made the other androids and 20 just followed them to the T without making any improvements

[@Opheebop-Productions]

Ofc he’s weaker, he died to SSJ *GRADE 1* Vegeta

[@redactedevents]

all you need to answer that question is the thumbnail lmao

[@QaamansLand]

You like the thumbnail?

[@gangstagummybear3432]

I think 19 and 20 were just as strong as the future 17 and 18, Im sure that lowkey is what Akira was trying to do.

[@Robobotic]

Tbh Geezer and Fatso is actually much more disturbing and scary villains than a pretty blonde girl and her black haired pretty boy brother. 17-18 dont even feel like villains while Dr. Gero and 19 actually looked menacing especially when Gero pierced a hole in Yamcha's chest. Especially their energy absorbtion ability could of been exaggerated to the point where the Z fighter faced disturbing deaths as a result of energy absorbtion. So Toriyama was in the right track until that fat ahole came and ruined his plans.

[@mds_main]

Yeah, why didn't he transform himself into an android like 17 and 18 with infinite energy and power? 😂

[@TheShinyDwarf1]

Why didn’t Dr Gero make his android body of himself in his Prime Youth age and made himself an Old man? 👴🏻

[@LavaCreeperPeople]

Why Android 19 IS WEAKER Than Androids 17 & 18

[@QaamansLand]

Huh?

[@gamesmoney1025]

Also Android 20 wouldn't just allow himself to become absorbed by Cell

[@winterburden]

Why it is Qaaman here today! 🤩

[@wargandi7659]

Going by your timing of events i think the next mistake he made was turning himself into a weaker version of his androids. Why didn't he just give himself the same upgrades as 17 or 18. That way he can over power any of them if need be and still create cell just because he a scientist and mad haha. Then cell kill him 😂.

[@QaamansLand]

So you basically agree with everything I said?

[@wargandi7659]

@@QaamansLand ya I agree with everything. I just wanted to add another mistake he did for fun. Hope it didn't come out wrong.

[@black2785]

Is Android 9 stronger than 10 and 11?

[@reptilian_geneticist]

Idk but 16 was stronger than 17 & 18 so the numbering doesn't neccesarily matter...

[@williamzeo2493]

For a guy capable of creating beings with infinite energy, for not be able to build a stop up mechanism on him, instead of need to press a remote control to halt the others he was very dumb.

[@Mojavekight17]

Human heart

[@metalmario1231]

......because no dragonball z fan could have figured this out on their own....