Why Antler Restrictions? w/ Dr. Gary Alt | HUNTR Podcast

In this episode of HUNTR Podcast, we bring on Dr. Gary Alt to discuss the importance of having a healthy deer herd and what it takes to do so. For twenty-seven years, Gary worked for the Pennsylvania Game Commission as a supervising biologist, overseeing decisions made to help balance a healthy ecosystem for both whitetail deer and bears. We often talk about letting bucks grow, trying to get them to peak maturity. As for a lot of the general hunting public, there seems to be a question as to why? And how do we achieve a healthy herd balance? That's what Dr. Gary Alt is here to explain to us today. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the show!
New episodes of HUNTR Podcast drop every Tuesday 6PM EST
SUBSCRIBE TO THE CHANNEL HERE:
/ huntrtube
HUNTR Podcast is presented by:
DeerGro: www.deergro.com
Hoyt Archery: hoyt.com
StealthCam: stealthcam.com

[@lukeminey2059]

I just wanna say thanks Gary ! Seriously as a youth hunter i never even laid eyes on a button buck let alone a buck with a rack. When AR first came in I hated it I really did I thought it was total bull but today i not only see buck consistently but those buck have consistently been getting bigger and bigger, so thanks hunting in PA is the best its ever been in my life.

[@johna2835]

Thank you for having Gary alt on - this is IMO your best show yet. Dr. Gary Alt, if you read these comments - thank you for what you did for Pennsylvania hunting. I wish you the best

[@GeorgeHenry-cx9zq]

Thank you for having Gary on. It was nice to look back at what he did here in Pa. at that time, what went into it, and how big of an influence it has had. I hope he gets the respect he deserves.

[@parrsoutdooradventures3436]

This was an amazing podcast. I'm from Central Michigan and 5 years ago the state did a test trial with APRs that were 4 on a side in a handful of counties and I happen to be in the middle of them. We watched it work exactly like it was supposed to and the DNR had the numbers to prove it. Doe harvest spiked along with buck quality. Buck to doe ratio improved dramatically and the heard was getting healthier. Most hated it at first but after a couple years everyone loved it. The 3 year trial came to an end and they pulled all APRs so you could harvest 2 bucks with no restrictions. All the progress that was made over 3 years was absolutely obliterated in 1 deer season with no explanation

[@6thstreertfisher]

I live in same area and I say same thing now that I said than I cant eat antlers. Hunting should be about putting meat I'm freezer and not about head mounts on wall. I take all the does I legal can on my property and bought more land in a non antler restricted county. There no science behind the fact improves herd.

[@parrsoutdooradventures3436]

@6thstreertfisher we are meat hunters. We eat venison 300+ days a year and most of those are does. We killed 6 this year and no bucks because we didn't see a buck that got us excited. Hunting should be about putting meat in the freezer but it also can be about the chase of a quality buck. There is nothing wrong with wanting to shoot bigger and better bucks and wanting everyone to have that opportunity. I don't know a single person, meat hunter or not, that wouldn't enjoy a bigger, more mature buck to step out in front of them while hunting. As far as no science that APRs don't help the health of the herd, the DNR released the data that said with APRs in place in the trial counties doe harvest increased and actually bypassed their goals. Having a better buck to doe ratio is having a healthier deer herd.

[@MattJ25]

Gary Alt, thank you from the bottom of my heart. I wish PA would go state wide with 3 up instead of just 3 on a side which I know some units already have that but I’d like to see that change. For all the dopes in the comment section, you really don’t get it and never will, the loudest ones to complain about Gary Alt go to the same wood, the same stump, the same power line on opening day and if they don’t get anything or see many deer they blame the someone else but themselves whether it’s the game commission, deer biologist or at one point and even still now, Gary himself. Go buy ground, go scout new properties, go knock on doors, help out a farmer whatever it is you got to do make it happen. I know what people are going to say. “I can’t afford it.” “I don’t have time.” Well if that’s the case it wasn’t that important to you in the first place. Thanks you boys for a great pod!

[@ryanb5768]

Did he have a stroke?

[@6thstreertfisher]

Blah blah. Please post a recipe for antlers . You can't eat them it a upper middle class thing to want to hunt antlers it not a middle class or poor people attitude we want and need if it brown it down

[@ken5042]

@@6thstreertfisher You can't hang steaks on the wall.

[@michaelkohl5165]

That was an awesome show .Top notch and Gary was a treasure for PA hunters. We are very lucky to have him in our State and his practices have improved our hunting ten fold.

[@jasonhaga5412]

Great episode! Gary was a great guest. You need to have him come back. The fact he used real data to make decisions and back up his points was great to hear.

[@donnabonning5587]

this was pure gold! gary is beyond smart. god bless him and his familly!

[@michaelfilepas9251]

Great podcast! Loved hearing it from the horses mouth, Gary Alt. I am a 56 year old die hard upstate cabin Pa deer hunter.

[@PeanutButterRipple]

so you can still remember seeing 20-30 deer running in a single file line through the woods too?!

[@20byrd]

@PeanutButterRipple I'm not that old, but I can remember those days. The state only cares about their timber nowadays it seems.

[@tbishop6726]

I was to 2 of his presentations, Mansfield HS and williamsport college. I stand by the need for change and think this was a definite positive for Pennsylvania hunting. Our bucks harvested since then on the farm have definitely increased in size.

[@georgesummerson7228]

Amazing interview so much information on how things came about in Pennsylvania deer hunting history. Home Run !!! Gary Ault .

[@mikeholley6219]

I was at one of the lectures!!!! And I appreciate your work Gary Alt!!!! You made hunting for my kids amazing!!!! Thank you!!!

[@matthewbunner4851]

i will never get tired of the crossbow/baiting debate. keep hammering it boys.

[@wildhorse280]

Gary alt is a legend.. I hunt Lackawanna county and the buck in our area have changed drastically as a kid a scrub buck was a big accomplishment now people’s ethics have changed from “if it’s brown it’s down “ to letting the small ones walk which is more of a win to change the moral of hunting

[@todlew3238]

Gary Alt made Pennsylvania deer hunting 100x better. Thank you Gary Alt

[@Buckman-101]

I certainly can relate to what Gary stated in regards to different situations in big woods areas,mainly being here in northern Wisconsin. Great podcasts,guys.

[@derekmiller5239]

What a great episode to expose hunters to the administration and scientific side of hunting and how we can all come together to preserve what we like to do. Awesome episode. I wouldn't have known about this guy or the story at all if it weren't for this episode. Thanks.

[@danchamberlain9434]

163 & I’ve listened to every one. Best one by far. I remember the changes going into place & passing on a buck for the 1st time hunting opening day PA that 1st year. Never felt so happy letting that young buck walk. Loved this one guys!

[@johnhines541]

I am 50 years old and from Pgh Pa, I’ve read about doctor Gary Alt since the late 70s when my dad would read game news or Pennsylvania Sportman to me and in the 80s. This guy did more for the state of Pennsylvania hunting than anybody could ever do. I’m a bear hunter and the gang I have hunted with, has been very successful. I am a deer hunter also ,I’ve seen the change in the deer herds and the racks. When I was younger, when it was shoot anything, there was very few big racks, I mean, there were, but if it was brown, it was down. We all bitched and complained when these new rules came into affect, but here now I am so happy it happened. I have a 13 year old boy and he is hunting know and there are more big bucks out there now and still a lot of deer. The buck ratio is better and that’s a big deal. Also the kids don’t want to hunt isn’t cause they’re not deer it’s because they’re stuck on our video games and their parents use that as a babysitter. They just want to go out on opening day and get a deer and not put in any of the work. Deer spotting, game cameras, walking around, getting familiar with the area. Do that with the kids instead of putting them in in front of a video game and they will enjoy it more. Great podcast.

[@philirwin2028]

Gary Alt did a great job for PA Wildlife. I remember talking to him at north bend bear check station. 😊

[@HUNTRPOD]

Love it

[@Leatherwoodoutdoors]

Great podcast guys!

[@HUNTRPOD]

When can we get you boys on?! Need a good Pa Roundtable!

[@Leatherwoodoutdoors]

@@HUNTRPOD sounds like a good idea!

[@glennl9630]

This guy just blew there minds on crossbows😂😂😂😂😂

[@garretts1604]

For most of my mature years, I’ve felt the state agencies (related to game management)were worthless extensions of bureacracy and the real changes could only happen grassroots… whether that remains true or not, the problems also arise from the bottom. You guys have really found the sweet spot of podcasting in the last year where your content is so educating and enveloping. Great job with selection, questions, dialogue.

[@mikefout7802]

I can say for certain it’s a combination of the bureaucracies and grassroot effort. In this case in particular I know some of the behind the scenes goings on that got us here in PA. Wow, what a ride that was.

[@pabowtech]

Great podcast

[@rorynelson7548]

I would follow this man straight into Mordor!

[@rhettjet849]

I wish more states would take notes from Dr Gary. I wish the whole us would do antler restrictions.. especially for adult hunters.. it would make the average hunting experience better for everyone..

[@phild9813]

APRs are not a one size fits all solution. In western Wyoming, they do show to increase buck ratios short term, but DECREASE antler quality in the long term. No bueno.

[@rhettjet849]

@phild9813 good point..I haven't done much hunting outside wv.. I live in a gun hunting county that borders 2 bow hunting only counties. There is a noticeable difference in antler size in the bow hunting only counties where they can only kill 1 buck and 1 doe. I dunno if it's because of the more difficulty of hunting or bag limits. In my opinion it's because all the younger bucks have more of a chance. But again my only experience is in wv so I wouldn't know about other states.

[@DavidBowCrazyBabyak86]

Merry Christmas

[@BMOJeremyKresge1848]

Thank you Gary alt for everything you did with the black bear and the deer. I'm in the B.C. book for black bear shot in 2004 in the Poconos 834lbs, 707lbs dreesed 22 15/16 skull. Look it up, Jeremy Kresge.

[@gaberieltully9497]

Solid podcast!

[@HUNTRPOD]

Alt was such a critical part of evolving deer management

[@rorynelson7548]

Hmmm this just sparked my mind into thinking I should contact my local biologist and maybe learn something about doing land management better

[@bdewyer]

Great podcast. “We have seen the enemy and they are us.” Hunters have always been their own worst enemy.

[@dkgraham6694]

Best one yet! Thanks for getting Dr. Alt on for us! I enjoy your podcast and it’s been a bunch of bangers in 24’. Gary Alt is why Pa hunters have got to see what age class can do for a deer herd. As a Pa hunter it’s nice to hear more background about how our state got turned around. So many of us were kids just dying to turn 12, head to camp and go chase mythical beasts that were rarely seen. Now we get to chase them and they’re more than a hope, a daydream, or an apparition. God bless Gary Alt and the administration that gave him the leverage to do what he’s done for our deer herd!

[@capthollis]

Good Stuff

[@jeremybentler9552]

As someone who grew up in Dr. Gary Alt's home town , I'm an avid hunter and 47 years old So this was happening while i was learning to hunt ,And seeing what a success story it has become Not to mention Living in the heart of Where his unbelievable work with black bears is showcased. He should be on anyone's mount Rushmore of most influential conservationists of all time!

[@travissmith-wz5nc]

Glad to see a dr that's kinda cool. John ozoga out of Michigan upper peninsula is a wealth of knowledge.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Ozoga is one of the best! His research has been a foundation for much of deer management

[@dominickhillwig8544]

You guys should reach out to Jason Say(Wired Outdoors). He's a PA guy with tons of food plot, property management and hunting knowledge. Would be a great discussion.

[@wildernessspirit5580]

Great podcast guys, I always enjoyed listening to Dr. Alt . Really neat to get a chance to do it again. I agree the lifetime achievement award is well deserved.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Appreciate you listening

[@mikefout7802]

Wow, this brings back fond memories of that period in PA. I haven’t talked to Gary for twenty years probably. Glad to see he’s doing well. I’d be great to touch base again about some of this twists and turns he shared here. Looking back I have a few questions.

[@user-zg4ne5pq2g]

Big fan of Gary and what he did for the state but we did have to back off from the state doe harvest. Got to where I was invited to hunt a neighboring 300 acre farm. Snow on the ground and we crossed the entire property to see one deer track, which was shot that morning. It was a buck that had dropped his antlers. We had multiple hunters shoot every deer they saw in their season. We were seeing some good bucks and the average size was better but the top end were not as big as some I’d seen when I was younger. Figured between the bears and the doe harvest many of them just weren’t making to a year old.

[@davebuko8096]

I can listen to Gary for hours.

[@danielmurray9249]

I used to live in hemlock farms in pike county, dr. alt did some bear research in that gated community, that place was loaded with bears, you had to keep your head on a swivel when fishing from shore they are so quiet when they walk

[@travisshuttleworth630]

Gary went to 70 different counties in 90 days and had 1000 people at each meeting. Nowadays you wont get nearly that kind of turn out, and then getting people to vote is another challenge these days!

[@capthollis]

In south Texas we have what they call a honey bear . Very small but we do have them ln the Kerrville Texas area

[@nickborgman8105]

Best guest ever!!!

[@kenn1320]

Great podcast. Michigan collected antler information for yrs. Lpdmi was a group of hunters who promoted aprs using that data. Unlike Gary, our governor has zero interest in better hunting. I've heard stories how the government employees play on their phones while lpdmi give view points. Their minds were made up before the meetings started.

[@dylancox5085]

Thank you guys for bringing light to this! Got a question for yall…. Any chance yall will have another 20% code for Muddy coming? Looking at getting a box blind and wanted to ask, thank you!

[@brianverbonitz3712]

I am 56 years old. Been hunting Pa all my life. I went to one of your talks in Hazelton. I can remember my Dad and Grandfather were dead against the antler restrictions. They were so wrong. Great work Gary.

[@veteranoutdoorsman9978]

30+ years ag shooting does was still tabu where Im at. The reason guys hated antler restrictions was because they wanted meat but thought shooting does was a sin. Realy messed up the buck to doe ratio. Im still not a fan of antler restrictions but i have to admit that in combination with increased doe harvest it improved the quality of the deer heard in Missouri.

[@rhettjet849]

I wish WV would implement antler restrictions or at least the earn a buck idea. This yr in 1 day I saw 45 does and 1 buck. I only saw 3 bucks all season.

[@nicksummerfield5408]

It’s not going to happen we rely way to much on tourism dollars

[@rhettjet849]

@nicksummerfield5408 I agree. That's one of WVs biggest income but wouldn't having more and bigger bucks bring in more tourists..

[@nicksummerfield5408]

@@rhettjet849 it would be never seem to look farther out it’s usually what’s in our face. What makes us different is multiple bucks, kill lots of does, rifle season when the masses can hunt and cheaper licenses and tags

[@Buckeyebeliever66]

Sorry guys Ohio had crossbows since the 70s

[@domc4687]

This was awesome. Please do more interviews like this!

[@heathalford4721]

Mississippi started with a 4pt or better law, now my area is 10” inside spread or 13” main beams with 1 buck of any antler. It’s not difficult to stay legal with that. One club not far from my house has at least 1 18” main beam as the rule. 17 7/8 you pay a fine

[@DavidBowCrazyBabyak86]

You're in the perfect spot for the camera angle on. I'm sorry I don't know your name but to do with the camo hat on the deer. Looks like it makes you look like you got horns perfectly. It's pretty funny to say the least

[@doabackflip8506]

He gotta deer nose too lol

[@jerimahjohnson8698]

Hunted bears in pa for 7 years. Never got one or even saw one during the bear season.

[@chuck8586]

Sounds about right, very few people get as luck as i did in PA. Three years of bear archery and i get a 400lbs+ bear. No baiting means if youre not part of a drive, or near a drive, youre going to have to be very lucky. No baiting makes bear hunting a very very difficult thing. The only thing i can recommend is hunt where the bear population is highest. WMU 3B is the center of bear country. I get LOTS of bear on trail camera every year

[@ken5042]

I wish we had a "three up" rule like the western part of the state...In our agriculture rich eastern part of the state, many bucks sport legal racks during their first year of growing antlers and they get shot. Many hunters are satisfied to simply harvest a buck, and these six and small eights are getting knocked off without getting a chance to reach trophy status.

[@patrickdickinson375]

I’d be curious of Dr. Alts opinion on a lot of these state conservation departments removing the 4pt. rule because of CWD? And once it’s been removed can it be brought back?

[@veteranoutdoorsman9978]

In the early 90s in Missouri during gun season all doe tags (except landowners) were by lottery. Deer density was thru the roof but bucks were rare and browse lines were the norm. No where near as many deer now(used to see groups of twenty or more regularly) but bucks are common and the deer numbers are much healthier.

[@DavidBowCrazyBabyak86]

I'm from Pa thanks

[@rodneygilbert5183]

Every time muscles moves his microphone take a shot🎉

[@paulcrave3112]

I was working on other things while listening. I don’t have time to go back and listen to it again so, forgive me from asking, but did the antler restriction have anything to do with the goal of reducing herd size to help the habitat? Or was that just another thing that was done while the stars were aligned. Did letting more young bucks live help reduce herd size by having more hunters shoot antlerless deer?

[@chuck8586]

He wasnt asked about the other change that he made to deer season, antler restrictions was his most controversial change, and wasnt geared toward getting the population under control, just on getting us to stop shooting 80-90% of yearlings every year. No the change he made to get the deer herd under control, by killing more doe, was the change to concurrent buck and doe seasons during rifle season. Before him, doe season had been limited to the last three days of rifle season. The change he made, made it legal to harvest a doe for the entire rifle season. And did get doe numbers back to a healthier number

[@toma.2585]

Texas has had 14” spread restrictions for years. Think it’s time to switch to a point restriction. Last few years I seen more mature bucks inside the ears than outside.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Oh very interesting! So high grading that characteristic

[@shawnthornley391]

Now pa just shoots every doe lol😅

[@MichaelLakota-vc4tk]

I can’t take this anymore The original problem was too many deer for the land. Restrictions on the bucks antlers “which I personally do “. There’s no input on how doing that impacts the carrying capacity of the land. Food wise. So my original post was spot on! Been deer hunting for 39years and I still have never heard that if you don’t shoot a legal buck you’re tag doesn’t get filled. Right?? No buddy has ever mentioned shooting does. Other than hunters that refuse to. I live in WI and I pass on more deer than I can remember. I still cannot find on that podcast where everyone is trying to control the herd population Trust me, I get it but for those that don’t… it’s going to be a uphill battle

[@chuck8586]

Antler restrictions wasnt to get the deer herd under control. It was to stop us from killing damn near every yearling buck. The deer population issue in PA prior to 2002, was almost entirely with the size of the doe herd, we killed almost every yearling buck in rifle season every year. We basically didnt kill any doe though. The reason for this is doe season was limited to the last three days of rifle season prior to gary alts changes. The “medicine” to fix the doe herd was making rifle season concurrent buck and doe season. Suddenly hunters had two weeks to fill their doe tag too, and on openning day doe are running everywhere. That got the doe population under control, while antler restrictions prevented hunters from killing every buck as a yearling While getting to kill bucks that were bigger that suddenly existed once we stopped killing yearlings

[@user-hk5fj8co1b]

Beam and Spread laws work the best to improve top end quality and protect the most 1.5-2.5 year old age class bucks. The only issue with APRs is you shoot your highest quality 1.5 to 2.5 year old bucks because only the top end of that age class has the points to be legal and they are stupid and get killed. But anything is better than nothing at all that's for sure.

[@nicksummerfield5408]

PA was a special case because they had to do something drastic in order to save their buck herd, But he never did go into detail on how antler restrictions saved the forest or what he did to save the bear hunt. In 20 plus years PAs deer aren’t any better than what we have in WV. PA is every trophy hunters wet dream with no hunting during the rut, gun season after the rut, no baiting, one buck and antler restrictions, but we have the two host bitch about how bad the hunting is in and the biologist that helped implemented it doesn’t even mention that he even hunts there anymore. I just don’t like the government telling people they are dumb and this is how we need to do it. I can see having to do this on public/ federal land just because all the pressure and how many people hunt there.

[@chuck8586]

He mentioned it one time in passing the change that was made to get the doe herd under control. And that change was concurrent buck and doe season in rifle season. Prior to that change doe season was limited to the last three days of rifle season, the rest of rifle was buck only. He doesnt talk about the change to concurrent doe season much because hes asked about antler restrictions and Hes controversial more so because of antler restrictions and not as much for the concurrent buck and doe season change

[@nicksummerfield5408]

@@chuck8586 isn’t it the doe tags still a lottery in PA or is it just for certain seasons

[@chuck8586]

@@nicksummerfield5408has never been in my 20 years of hunting, so 🤷‍♂️ you must be thinking of something old old

[@nicksummerfield5408]

@@chuck8586 gotcha

[@chuck8586]

Whole bunch of smooth brains in PA still think this guy is akin to the devil. But what they fail to understand is the only reason their hunting experience sucks these days is in the mirror staring back at them. PA is amazing for deer hunting on public ground. It has a few deserts in it, but theyre frankly rare. The only reason so many hunters in Pa complain about not seeing deer, is they suck at actually deer hunting, and if there aren’t a million hunters in the woods at one time keeping every deer on it feet for hours and hours. They just dont see anything. And as far as gary alts bear management credentials. PA is now one of the best places in north america for giant black bear, and we kill a lot of them every year

[@20byrd]

My favorite is the fact that he moved away from PA and chooses to hunt deer in Illinois because of the quality of bucks. A real put your money where your mouth is type of guy.

[@chuck8586]

@@20byrd yes Illinois has, had, and will always have, better quality deer. If i could afford to hunt their every year, i would too! But because of gary, the public land i hunt on im PA is as freaking amazing, as it has ever been. For both whitetail deer, and black bear! Hell i dont get a 400lbs black bear without gary. It was a state forest bear, gary doesnt make the changes he did, the food source for this bear is so pitiful it could never dream of reaching 400lbs. And i 100% dont have two mature buck hanging on my wall without gary. One a very nice 8 that was at least 4 years old. And the other a very crazy non typical 14 that was at least 5 And gary still hunts PA, he just rightly illinois a hell of a lot more. Its freaking Illinois

[@trevorhonstrom9651]

Please let every liberal DNR personnel in Minnesota watch and listen to this!!!

[@MarkG3b71]

I have been hunting PA for 40 years since I was 12 years old on the same 1,200 acres of private land. We used to get nothing but spikes & four pointers. My club members & I all credit the things that Alt made happen for the big bucks that we’ve had on our property for the last 22 years. I live in NJ & hunt in NJ as well & I want NJ to implement antler restrictions too.

[@ApexLegendsClips947]

Stfu! He did nothing but ruin hunting!

[@ApexLegendsClips947]

😂😂😂😂

[@kartracer5g229]

​@ApexLegendsClips947 there's always that one troll like you that shows up to the Party 😂

[@MichaelLakota-vc4tk]

I am watching it now and it’s not a good beginning because the public can’t figure out where you’re going with this

[@ranger053]

6 doe and a buck management.

[@MichaelLakota-vc4tk]

You are definitely a politician. Good at turning the facts around

[@mikepoulson384]

One of the first topics was increasing the doe license numbers. Let bucks grow, means more does need to go. Simple math really

[@curtyoder2210]

@michaellakota-vc4tk What facts got turned around

[@mikepoulson384]

I didn't hear any facts that were off?

[@ifn30]

☝️PA hunter from the 90's still holding a grudge on Gary 😂

[@mikepoulson384]

@@ifn30 oh, ok thought I missed something

[@MarkZink-sj2rt]

Would like to talk to you sometime when your in Illinois my home state we just went through another round of sharpshooter doing what we don't need shooting more deer so where going to see less deer this year not good I guess what I saying when is enough why there shooting them is cwd how can we find out how many that they shoot have cwd my guess is not alot would just like to know your thoughts about it and what we as hunters could do another thing is there baiting but as a hunters we can't bait I'm in Whiteside County in Illinois

[@MichaelLakota-vc4tk]

I don’t live in PA so I have to ask-What are the rules on shooting doe?

[@davidfowler17]

We have WMUs (wildlife management units). Each unit is allocated a certain number of tags for the public to purchase. There is 3 opportunities for everyone to buy a single doe tag each time. After that, whatever is remaining is sold over the counter in “bulk”. Each hunter can have upwards of 6 unfilled doe tags at a time. After which, you cannot buy any more until a tag has been filled. All that being said, the majority of the WMUs sell out of doe tags by the 2nd or 3rd round.

[@MichaelLakota-vc4tk]

@@davidfowler17 If it’s like other states that have tried that, most people bought up all the tags they could just toss them in the trash and leave the population in their favor of seeing deer while in the field. Basically hoarding tags Did you know that nature can take care of itself? Might not be very pleasant at times but humans really are the worst plague on the planet! And “YES” this is coming from an outdoors man. In fact I am sitting in my WI tree stand at this very moment

[@MichaelLakota-vc4tk]

@@davidfowler17 If the doe population is that big why are the tags being SOLD? Always comes down to MONEY 🤬🤬🤬

[@davidfowler17]

@@MichaelLakota-vc4tk yeah, for years, the Game Commission would sell out in most of the units but not all. Over the years, they changed purchasing rules and adjusted the WMUs in a way so that just about every tag is sold. So yes, definitely all comes down to money. I certainly hope much of it goes into conservation but…

[@bryankelley6349]

Where's tha party

[@shawnthornley391]

I been archery hunting for 39 years where are these big bucks at I see more scrap rack bucks then legal buck young kids don't want to hunt 20 hunts and see no deer

[@patrickgibson2828]

Come up to Ontario there's guy go on 60 plus sits and doesn't see a one doe or even a fawn

[@chuck8586]

You absolutely need to hunt other areas of the state! The entire northern third of the state above I-80 is absolutely amazing hunting on public land. The western side of the Appalachians is even better hunting. The worst parts are south central and south eastern PA. And big bucks come out of there yearly too! If still you dont see much worth seeing. Its you.

[@wezsal]

If you are hunting consistently and not seeing deer consistently, then quit hunting that spot. Put more boots on the ground in the off season. Find sign and put the puzzle together.

[@user-sp9hy8tq4j]

You don’t know wt u doing bro! Find another hobby

[@thomasstine2299]

@shawnthornly391, Topographical and terrain features dictate where the deer are living. If you're not seeing any deer, look at aerial and Topographical maps and revisit your area. I promise you that they are there but you are in the wrong spot or your access is terrible and they know you are there.

[@seeksolitude9048]

Great guest with a great story. I need to clarify the wolf situation in WI though. We do not have 500,000 deer in the primary wolf range. Not even half that. The deer population is greatly screwed to be the southern half of the state and the wolves are in the northern quarter. I have a biology degree and a fisheries and wildlife background so I understand that wolves are not decimating the deer. But when you take a lower density deer heard and then throw a hard winter at them and then toss in a bunch of wolves the population is going to take a hit. And don't do forget the Bears, Coyotes, and Bobcats.

[@shawnthornley391]

I know hunters are shooting deer. But pa has low deer density.everywhere pa needs more deer. I won't shoot a doe with a high power rifle.. just with a compound bow or a flintlock.. and get crossbows out of archery season.

[@chuck8586]

I couldn’t disagree more with where i hunt in 3B. Its nothing for me to get 20-30 different buck on camera between may and december every year. As well as an obscene number of doe. its all public land, and i really barely cover 2 square miles. Now come rifle season its amazing how few deer i see in some areas that were absolutely loaded just weeks before. But by the time rifle season opens, the deer at at their most pressured so its not surprising they suddenly disappear

[@MattJ25]

You can’t be serious, I hunt 3 units across PA with all types of habitat and hunting pressure and I see deer all the time, bow, rifle, doesn’t matter. In fact there definitely too many deer in many locations I hunt, just curious, where are you hunting?

[@20byrd]

Gary talking about how he and his son hunt deer in Illinois now should tell you how well his management has aged

[@chuck8586]

@@20byrd its Illinois! Basically the promise land for whitetail deer, we all would too if we could afford too. Heck the guys hosting the podcast own property there too. 😂

[@20byrd]

@chuck8586 I live and hunt right next door to PA, and there's a noticeable difference in quality. All I'm saying is it could be better. If the state prioritizes timber over deer, they should just say that then. But, biologists acting like the herd is healthier now, and hunters are just too stupid to know seeing 1 deer on an evening sit in archery season is more enjoyable than seeing a dozen is not working.

[@jeffcopenhaver2217]

A swing and a miss trying to get Dr. Alt’s professional opinion to back your hatred of crossbow hunters huh?

[@curtyoder2210]

😂

[@HUNTRPOD]

He’s not wrong on use whatever to control the population, that said still feel pretty strong crossbows are a major cause of Access loss, along with trail cameras

[@curtyoder2210]

@HUNTRPOD what is ya'lls reasoning on crossbows limiting hunter access?

[@jeffcopenhaver2217]

@@HUNTRPODnot even close. When folks started paying Joe Farmer access fees and leasing every available piece of ground, THAT’s what caused access difficulties not choices in harvest weapon.

[@chuck8586]

Since its been said a few times how people dont understand how antler restrictions helped. Allow me to try and explain it myself, though rewatch it cause he did explain it. Prior to antler restrictions PA had an obscene number of doe, while at the same time, killed an incredibly high percentage of yearling buck every year. So basically the deer herd was so large, that the sheer number of doe could reproduce a ridiculously high high number of buck, that were then almost all killed, every year, and it doesnt take that many buck to breed a lot of doe. But the doe were not being killed. So the deer population issue lied almost completely with the doe herd and not with the buck herd. If moving forward, we allowed hunters to kill the same number of buck, and kill the number of doe we absolutely NEEDED to kill, we would see serious population crashes that would have run on negative consequences. Instead we wanted to get deer herd under control, by focusing on the doe herd. The best way to get hunters to kill the doe that need killed, while not completely crashing the population in Pennsylvania’s unique case, meant antler restrictions, which as a side effect, was also beneficial to the hunter because saving yearling buck means bigger buck. Meat hunters like older buck cause theres more meat on an older deer, even a year older will easily mean 20more pounds of meat compared to a yearling. And of course people who wanted bigger racks get that too. And of course. The whole point of getting the deer herd under control, was to allow our state forests to actually regenerate. Which by the late 90s they just weren’t. The damage done by that massive deer herd is easily seen every time the state cuts a section of woods. In the areas were oaks are essentially gone, its because deer ate every damn sapling that sprouted for the last 80 years and the seed bed is depleted of acorns

[@20byrd]

The Pennsylvania hunting experience is worse than in the 90s. Likely a higher percentage of legal bucks, but significantly less overall.

[@chuck8586]

Well sure, theres not a humongous over population of deer anymore, and archery season is more popular than ever. In the 90s 900k-1million hunters hit the woods openning day of rifle and kept every deer on its feet for hours and hours. Now, the population of deer is actually healthy, not ridiculously overpopulated, and maybe 500-600k hunters hit opening day of rifle not every hunter. In the 90s you got to sit anywhere and waych 40-100 deer just run passed you. Now you have to hunt.

[@20byrd]

​@@chuck8586 I dunno man, maybe you right. I since bought a farm and moved to OH. I enjoy chasing a couple 150s every year vs. a 2 1/2 year old 7 point. I still come back to PA every few seasons to hunt with some fam and old friends. Even with 20 years of antler restrictions, y'all ain't even close to OH quality.

[@chuck8586]

@@20byrd there are 150s in Pa to hunt, and some largers though certainly rarer than in ohio. The northern third of the state above I-80 is paradise for deer hunters though. and those big woods are loaded with mature buck. The difficultly is chasing them through 100k+ acres plots of public land

[@chadhouser973]

Listen to what he said about a healthy # of deer per sq Mile

[@20byrd]

@@chadhouser973 did he give a number? I heard him mention 70 in the context of that being a high number and destroying habitat. I grew up hunting PA in the 90s and moved to OH for work in my early 20s. I ended up buying a farm in southern OH mainly to hunt. I still go back and hunt with friends and fam in PA every year. The quality is night and day difference. PA is way behind. But, if you enjoy finding a single buck track and following it all day (like Gary's grandfather), then PA public land is where it's at.

[@buckydoedowner9040]

Another thing they need to do is make "spotlighting/jacklighting" illegal in P.A. It baffles me its still allowed in some states. I dont think it goes hand and hand with growing bigbucks.

[@kartracer5g229]

Tell me one scientific reason how shining a light on a deer and looking at it is keeping bucks from growing bigger ... I'll wait 🤔

[@buckydoedowner9040]

@@kartracer5g229 ask the guys who use a gun along with their spotlight.. you surely cannot be this dumb.

[@MichaelLakota-vc4tk]

What I don’t understand is how this show opens up as too many deer for the land to sustain and your solution is to Not shoot young bucks and let the herd numbers increase that way????? What are you really trying to accomplish? What I take from this is that the less bucks you shoot the more the land can carry. WHAT ?? Seriously What are you trying to say? You totally said the opposite of what you wanted to accomplish ! This was not a video for land sustainability, it’s only about letting more deer live. Soooo confusing

[@chuck8586]

Rewatch it he does a decent job of explaining it but ill go ahead and try myself. Prior to antler restrictions PA had an obscene number of doe, while at the same time, killed an incredibly high percentage of yearling buck every year. So basically the deer herd was so large, that the sheer number of doe could reproduce a ridiculously high high number of buck, that were then almost all killed, every year, and it doesnt take that many buck to breed a lot of doe. But the doe were not being killed. So the deer population issue lied almost completely with the doe herd and not with the buck herd. If moving forward, we allowed hunters to kill the same number of buck, and kill the number of doe we absolutely NEEDED to kill, we would see serious population crashes that would have run on negative consequences. Instead we wanted to get deer herd under control, by focusing on the doe herd. The best way to get hunters to kill the doe that need killed, while not completely crashing the population in Pennsylvania’s unique case, meant antler restrictions, which as a side effect, was also beneficial to the hunter because saving yearling buck means bigger buck. Meat hunters like older buck cause theres more meat on an older deer, even a year older will easily mean 20more pounds of meat compared to a yearling. And of course people who wanted bigger racks get that too. And of course. The whole point of getting the deer herd under control, was to allow our state forests to actually regenerate. Which by the late 90s they just weren’t. The damage done by that massive deer herd is easily seen every time the state cuts a section of woods. In the areas were oaks are essentially gone, its because deer ate every damn sapling that sprouted for the last 80 years and the seed bed is depleted of acorns

[@shawnthornley391]

4 ponts on 1 side was a joke we are not illinois

[@chadhouser973]

Why is it a joke? Did you listen to what he said about average racks in PA at 2 and 3 years old?

[@20byrd]

@@chadhouser973 I heard what he said about hunting with his son nowadays....In ILLINOIS. Funny how far behind PA is still in buck quality.. and their "hero" doesn't even live there anymore and chooses to hunt elsewhere.

[@jerimahjohnson8698]

So he knows about the 1000 lb bear near Pocono raceway

[@larryhobbs8769]

Yeah. Bear huntin ain’t huntin. Especially when you bait em with cookies and doughnuts

[@chuck8586]

Cant bait bear in PA, or use dogs, so its definitely bear hunting

[@anthraciteantleraddicts582]

Tell me you never bear hunted in pa with out telling me you never beat hunted in pa

[@dannyhall7656]

You guys say you want baiting banned and crossbows in ohio because it's making hunting to easy and killing the Sport but baiting and crossbows but in has been legal in Ohio longer then you been Alive and when hunting was big too lol.Earlier videos you said you wanted it banned because your neighbors was killing deer and you have more land lol😂

[@flapjackcity1212]

All I’m hearing is , public hunters need to pass on bucks. So the private hunter have a chance at 4 or 5 years olds

[@chuck8586]

Pa has some rather large chunks of public ground, where deer never know what a private border is. Also has some small pieces too

[@chadhouser973]

Huh?!

[@ryanschug5684]

2:45:20 - 2:45:25 That comment is why you will never win the support of the baiters in Ohio.

[@MichaelLakota-vc4tk]

When I get a chance I will watch it again. To me it started out as the deer herd was too big for the land “food wise “. Then it went right into putting antler restrictions out there. Meaning that you’re restricting hunters from shooting any young deer at all. Buck or Doe. I will admit that if I can’t follow the podcast for what it implies in the first few minutes, I can’t condone the content.

[@brianguest238]

Are you trying to be funny when you put that seed out or is that just natural?

[@Tughill1699]

thats all just crap, people need to do their own restrictions-ar is for those guys that cant let a forky go by and need a law to be able to-i say let them shoot a forky and than stay home -dont need more eyes on the big boys. now everyone is after big bucks even the new inexperienced hunter and by doing so mess the whole woods up ,how long do you think we can sustain everyone going after big bucks ,on the other hand it might work out because there wont be much hunters left for one reason or another one being they will get discouraged at big buck hunting (you tubers make it seem easy )we are in a bubble now and its gonna crash big time and its all thanks to the hunting media that are trying to make a buck and say what ever for it. need to make men first than hunters will be made otherwise hunting is gonna have to become so sissy to appeal to future men

[@chadhouser973]

lol! How can you listen to the results this policy has created, and then say it’s “crap”? You think this biologist is lying about the results or something?

[@kartracer5g229]

Punctuation is your friend!

[@dannydragon6240]

It's a private land vs public land issue. Ive watched it in vt my whole life. Guys on private land shot all the bucks thirty years ago. Wouldn't let anyone else hunt. Then they shot all the does cause that's why there weren't big bucks. Then they whined and cried some more and made it so no one could shoot a small buck all in the name of qdm. Now one guy on the land shoots one nice buck and no one else gets one because there aren't any left. There remedy, shoot more does and restrict buck hunters even more. Hunters are a selfish lazy unskilled bunch of whiners these days. They want pet deer their whole lives then when they shoot all their pets they try to screw up my hunting on the low deer density public and state land. BS.

[@chuck8586]

Not the same kind of discussion in Pa with private vs public. PA is 6, 7? Times bigger than Vermont, with literally enough public land to cover Vermont more than twice.

[@chadhouser973]

So, you want everyone to shoot a yearling buck every season in VT? I don’t understand why that would be good for VT hunting

[@jameslindenthal840]

GOOD JOB

[@WMBCS]

You anti crossbow guys on this thread need to look up where he word archer/archery came from. It’s a French word that was used for archers in there military that ment bow the longbow soldiers and the crossbow soldiers en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Crossbowmen