Bad Acting In Sports Films & Best Ever Headlines | Q&A

Are sub-editors the unsung heroes of the news room and what are the secrets of creating a brilliant headline? On shows such as World's Most Dangerous Roads, how much danger are the celebrities really in? Plus, why is to so hard to recreate sport in films?
These are just some of your questions Marina Hyde and Richard Osman answer on this episode.
00:00 Intro
00:25 Journalists don’t write their own headlines?
08:41 When celebrities are in jeopardy reality shows can we really believe they are in danger since film sets have insurance?
12:20 What is Passing Off?
15:36 Are books sent out for review included in the sales numbers?
17:09 Why is acting in sports films so unbelievable?
26:15 Did Richard have Helen Mirren in mind when writing the character Elizabeth in The Thursday Murder Club?
32:19 Outro
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[@paulkeith71]

The article you used to illustrate the Benetton pitstop fire was not New York Post but from The Red Bulletin's original F1 magazine. How do I know? I was the sub editor.

[@rosalie7029]

Brilliant, well done

[@isaaclamb7822]

Very David Brent.

[@Electricdreams21]

Now you've gotta tell us your best headline 😊

[@MLSNYC88]

He must remember to thank you.

[@HecticGlenn]

A friend first, a sub editor second. Probably an entertainer third.

[@jonners606]

The best sporting pun headline is the last time Tottenham won a major trophy, which was the League Cup in 2008 under Juande Ramos as manager: "Spurs CAN be heroes, just for Juande".

[@heatherrobertson6110]

"Queen in Brawl at Palace". An oldie, but a goodie. (Crystal Palace player Gerry Queen, for those who don't know).

[@henrikdahlberg878]

So proud to earn the title #friendoftheshow just after Liz.

[@sarasate89]

My partner is a software developer, and whenever there's a scene in TV or film involving someone doing any sort of coding (or 'hacking') he always laughs at the absurdity of it and how much nonsense it is!

[@petergilbert7106]

The best pun I saw was in a dedicated games development newspaper. When you convert a game to a new platform its called a "Port", and Sega (which had a Sports department) had recently ported a bunch of sports games. The headline was "Sega Sports Sports Sports Ports"

[@palmeraj70]

Love it when this podcast really flows, and we can see how enjoyable it must be to make. Always brings a smile to my face AND educates 🙂

[@DannBP1]

The ice hockey scenes in Canadian sitcom SHORESY are universally praised as authentic. But that's because most if not all the actors are ex-hockey players. 😀

[@anonymes2884]

Love the Q[&A] pods. Not to put words in anyone's mouth though but I suspect Simon's question was more about what sometimes seems to be the increasing dis/misinformation aspect of headlines in our clickbaity age rather than "pastoral care" of the journalist (though that's important too). (of course "clickbait" has always happened to some extent - can't remember whose law it is but the one that goes "Whenever a headline asks a question the answer is 'No'" has been around for decades. Edited to add: for info, it's "Betteridge's law")

[@hannahk1306]

Yes, I was thinking this too. I've noticed that ITV (amongst many others) will do this a lot, where they will post on social media a headline and a snippet from the article that paint a certain sensationalist picture. If you actually read the attached article, it either paints the complete opposite picture; is entirely neutral; or has little to no information at all. The vast majority of the comments under such posts are clearly related to the headline and the snippet alone, often berating the subject or asking questions that have been addressed in the article. At that point (where people aren't even reading the article), it feels more like disseminating misinformation than reporting the news.

[@andrew66862]

The Shooter McGavin actor actually made his climactic putt in Happy Gilmore.

[@FloatingAnarchy61]

One of my favourite headlines was in the Sun (I think), following the revelation that Tony Adams was going out with Caprice, 'Donkey gets his oats'. Richards story about the accident prone h&s guy reminded me of one of the most underrated characters on the Fast Show, deaf stuntman Chip Cobb. 'We need to reset the wire.' 'Set meself on fire. 'Alright'.

[@highdownmartin]

Probably my fav podcast. Great fun. “ Old Ladies make lovely rugs”

[@keithmontgomery2680]

Chariots of Fire was a great sport film. One of my friends at University was a 400 metre hurdler, and has a cameo as Iain Charleston's legs

[@postedbyneal]

I'm interested in 99% of your off the cuff "we'll have to do an episode on..."..the list has to be huge. what's it gonna take to get longer or more episodes of this amazing pod!??

[@MrFuzzyGreen]

Dream Teams' Captain, Duncan Pow, was in Star Wars Rogue One and Andor, another player from the final season (that I worked on), David Ajala, is a key regular in Star Trek Discovery and has done very well for himself over the years. Harchesters home ground was actually Millwall and every fortnight we'd film on the pitch shooting tight enough to just see Harchester players on the grass doing some passes. Sky footage from premiere league matches had to be chosen so that for the wide shots they would be playing the team of the week (say Chelsea) and therefore footage had to be of Chelsea playing a team of a single colour strip (say yellow) that could be chroma-keyed to Harchester Uniteds purple, which would also turn the matching clothes of the supporters in the stands purple too. Yes it was a bit ropey as keying had fuzzy edges but you didn't linger on it too much and cut back to the tighter pitch footage to sell it.

[@kevinsoutham]

I was working as a steward at Wembley stadium in about 1993 and one of the medics on duty that day was a former grange hill actor. I can’t remember the character name but he was really well known and in it for a long time. We got chatting and he started telling me about all the shenanigans in A&E, how he’d had some quite well known politicians in there with animals up there backsides. Before he could tell me the names a bunch of fans recognised him and turned around and started chanting his name Grange Hill name! I never got to hear the end of the story.

[@biegebythesea6775]

That health and safety story was hilarious.

[@mattblack6736]

Anyone else notice Richard being quoted in the Guardian regarding the baby reindeer stuff from this podcast?

[@Anna-hd5wm]

he was quoted in a lot of online editions of tabloids, too.

[@ajrh82]

Do you have a point? I did read an article that seemed to be critical of Osman which I thought was harsh and the thing I like about this podcast is that is demystifies things and makes provided transparency

[@acidstrummer]

Richard Hammond is living proof of celebrities in jeopardy.

[@dangleebols]

Can you tell me why the percentages shown in TV cosmetics adverts are so small, like "84% people say this product is great" and at bottom of the screen it shows 63 people were asked. when the product is sold in millions? Why does the Advertising Authority not implement a standard amount of people to be canvassed for an opinion say 1000?

[@johnpotts8308]

I imagine it's cherry picked - they run 10 tests and pick the best one. Then you need to look out for weasel words like "Out of 379 people who expressed a preference" which eliminates all those who said they couldn't tell them apart (which could be most of those sampled). And if it's (say) a perfume stand in a store where they're offering a free sample, people are already inclined to say they liked it. Of course, that doesn't always work, as years ago I took "The Pepsi Challenge" (ask your grandparents!) and deliberately picked Coke.

[@dangleebols]

​@johnpotts8308 Surely that should not be allowed to be used as a selling point, as it deceives the public!

[@MrFuzzyGreen]

​@@dangleebolswell it's not exactly deception. What John said there is easy to spot because the numbers are so erratic and this clearly massaged, unlike say a neater 8 Out of 10 Cats.

[@petergilbert7106]

Dave Gorman mentioned this on an episode of "Modern Life is Goodish" on this very theme. (they are all on KZbin). Series 1 episode 5 if you want to find it.

[@superbatmichael]

I love this podcast! You are both tremendously good at this. Thank you.

[@christophersmith108]

Marathon Man: Dustin Hoffman _absolutely_ put in the miles required to act the part of an endurance athlete!

[@craigallen2574]

John Wark & Fletch from Dream Team mentioned in the same episode, what a day!

[@joebetwa]

Slapshot with Paul Newman has to be up there as one of the best sports movies of all time

[@GlennPegden]

Came here to say this. It doesn't shy away from showing the sport either, using skaters who could act rather that actors who thought they could skate. Sure, it's pedestrian and unfulfilling by modern movie standards (especially compared to something like Goon) and "of it's age" in other ways, but still a great despite being nearly 50 years old!

[@johnmckenzie4639]

You've really captured the spirit of the thing @joebetwa and @GlennPegden.. RIP M. Emmett Walsh, a.k.a. Dickie Dunn.

[@nbell63]

"See you next Tuesday" - because "See you next Wednesday" has already been IP'd? Statham as Osman - ooh, Jason with hair again! It's been a while. Blimey, imagine the lifts in Statham's shoes! I once lost a Stand In gig for Donald Sutherland because, at 6'1' (185cm), I was one inch too short - him being 6'4" (193cm), where they would accept 6'2" to 6'4" for the Stand In.

[@user-ds8je6jp3e]

Was going to make a darts movie called 'Raging Bully.'

[@matthewr8502]

This might be apocryphal but my favourite headline was the one about library closures in Essex - “Books Lack in Ongar”

[@thebagelsproductions]

That took me a minute 😊

[@sefgrt]

I worked at Reach PLC and we did exactly what Marina said happened at The Guardian.

[@mremumerm]

i remember an editor being asked if he thought a Headline ever went too far, pretty sure it was for the Toronto Sun, and the one he mentioned was "Indians 5 Tigers 2" (don't remember the number) about a hunting party in India going wrong, Indians and Tigers at time were also Baseball teams names.

[@STUFLYS]

Jackie Gleason spent so much time as a young man in pool halls that when they were filming ‘The Hustler’ he just told them to pull back and he would do his own shots. Would be a strong contender for my favourite sports movie.

[@Hexon66]

Game, not a sport. But it is a parallel example.

[@user-qq5oj3gw2e]

dodgeball a true underdog story

[@giffgaffnettwork5626]

Ricky Gervais should create a new comedy series with him cast as a clumsy Health & Safety Officer! Netflix number one hit winner.

[@berniequigley4390]

Love the podcast

[@thomasdalton1508]

There are some actors that complain they've been named in the casting description of a role as who the person should be like, went for the role themselves and didn't get it. That has to hurt...

[@timbeaton5045]

As a one-time violinist, i always cringe at actors trying to look like they are playing a violin. Cumberbatch, Rathbone etc for obvious reasons. And in general actors pretending to play just about any instrument. One exception to this is Ryan Gosling, in La La Land. I believe he studied enough piano to make it look convincing at first blush. Another is Miles Teller in Whiplash, although i know drummers who balk at the overall tenor of the story as told in the movie, as totally unrealistic.

[@timbeaton5045]

PS. Good sports movies? One of my favourites is Bull Durham. especially the bits where Kevin Costner is training Tim Robbins in the noble art of saying nothing when a sportsperson is being interviewed.

[@Anna-hd5wm]

Nicholas Galitzine played a violinist in a very horrible dance off rom com and he even had a teacher and it still looked terrible lol

[@danutagajewski3330]

I always have to close my eyes when an actor is playing an orchestra conductor...waving a baton willy nilly and flapping their arms just makes me cringe. Sadly other than musicians, most people have no clue as to what the conductor actually does and how s/he leads musicians in a performance.

[@euansmith3699]

I'm glad to see that "Escape to Victory" got a pass. 😍

[@Gideonsmythe]

A favourite football headline about Arsenal's Dennis Bergkamp signing a new contract was "Wenger's Wonga Makes Bergy Linger Longer". I think it was The Sun, but genius anyway.

[@thebagelsproductions]

That's worth a weeks wages alone. Tip Top Red Top Headline Punnery

[@benthomas1885]

7:24 Stockport express ‘local dominatrix refuses to go down without a fight’

[@RandomIndyWrestling]

Ever seen Blackball with Paul Kaye, Vince Vaughan and Johnny Vegas? It's movie on lawn bowls. Similarly to darts, the shots are the people playing the shot and then camera over the other end. I saw a piece about it that said they have a consultant who could play the shots from 30 yards away, but couldn't do it from just offscreen.

[@keefymarchant8285]

Im just here, For Marinas dancing hands

[@Cchogan]

Le Mans was one film which got a lot of the sport right. But this was at least partly because Steve McQueen was such a good driver. The racing driver Derek Bell said that during racing sequences, McQueen was able to keep up with them, even when they were pushing the cars to the limit. In consequence, there was no need to artificially speed up the film - the lead actor was genuinely going that fast!

[@Hexon66]

Not a sport, though. Even more relevant in this circumstance, because you know the point is the portrayal of physical athleticism, not the skill of making a race car go fast.

[@christophersmith108]

@@Hexon66 Yes, a race car driver doesn’t need the reflexes, spatial awareness, or hand/eye coordination of an athlete (for a start) do they?

[@michaelnaylor-hodgkinson991]

You have just proved my two favourite bar conversations. 1). The health and safety officer in any firm is the clumsiest person in the company. and whatever number 2 was!

[@charleswindsor1184]

'The Natural' might be the best sports films for realism

[@jimfullam5807]

New York Post Headline when a witness fails to identify Mafia Boss John Gotti was 'I forgotti'.

[@janshepherd1863]

regarding headlines, many of us now look for articles that are published on SM and we don't click the article open, we go into the comments to find the person who does God's work and gives us the main point of the article.

[@philipellis7039]

I’m very much reminded of the Dan Brown novels which read a lot like an outline of a script rather than a novel and he would write things like ‘looking a lot like Tom Hanks’ just in case we hadn’t got the point. To be fair to him it worked.

[@kellyd152]

This feels more like an addiction now. Even after I have listened to the podcast I still want to watch the You Tube video . I'm glad there is no charge .

[@markhopkins318]

Nothing gave me more joy than watching an episode of NCIS and the lab tech not being able to complete the forensic testing because the GC has broken down.

[@Faust2Dr]

The tennis action in 'Challengers' is pretty realistic.

[@Tozzywozzy01]

For their interest, Chris Simmons who was in The Bill has written and directed a darts movie called 'Broken Arrow' about a dude who's good at darts, loses his arm in an accident and ends up joining a darts Paralympic team. Dunno when it's coming out, but maybe Richard's dreams have come true?

[@kevinsoutham]

Ford V Ferrari and I, Tonya are both great sports movies. The sound in FvF is amazing.

[@grahambuckerfield4640]

Favorite? 1977’s Slap Shot.

[@costeris35]

I love Wimbledon, the tennis romcom, no doubt terrible tennis, but … Paul Bettany, who should be in all films.

[@australiainfelix7307]

Marina rarely says anything contradicting my low opinion of journalists.

[@mattblack6736]

Cool Runnings !

[@lukedavis569]

I was just about to say Cool Runnings. Debate over 😂

[@stevencgr]

please interview Andy Pryor, he's cast every Doctor in Doctor Who since 2005, among other very high profile shows. for someone who's casting decisions are speculated, critiqued and give tabloids, youtubers and social media endless material, it would be wonderful to hear from the man himself,

[@chrismoorcroft334]

There are a surprising number of good baseball films, going from historical drama to out and out comedy. I suggest Eight Men Out, Major League, A League of Their Own, Bull Durham, The Natural, Field of Dreams.

[@johnmckenzie4639]

I completely agree with all your suggestions, and would add some of my personal favourites: Moneyball, Trouble With The Curve, 61* and 42. There's something about baseball that translates beautifully on the screen.

[@EricAitala]

Ted Lasso used VFX for the ball in many scenes from what I've heard...

[@johnlogan8672]

171 is three treble 19’s

[@kevinsoutham]

Surely there is no more classic headline than “Freddie Star Ate My Hamster”.

[@thomasdalton1508]

If TV shows aren't supposed to break the celebrities, how did The Jump keep getting renewed?

[@awimbaweh5794]

Natalie Imbruglia listens wow. The Natalie, plse play Torn next week.

[@Robalogot]

Sigh, I had no idea who Marina was before this podcast and now I have the biggest crush.

[@maxine2798]

Newspapers are also available on line……

[@christophersmith108]

Hey, join the bloody queue! ETA: Sorry Marina, but for _TRIE, the Movie_ , you are being played by Elizabeth Debicki, and (in order to get funding) Richard is being played by The Rock… (I’m afraid the plot may require a discussion of why _Jumanji_ works, but _Jungle Cruise_ fails abysmally)

[@colinbaker3916]

She’s the funniest writer around. Her pieces are beautifully written. I wish she’d appear on Have I Got News For You.

[@TR-rz1xt]

@@maxine2798 Indeed, Guardian one of the few with no paywall too. Plenty of heavy hints mind you...

[@itistrue101]

Love your show, its my pre work chill. Clearly you're not making enough episodes😊

[@vickiekostecki]

Here's a question for your future casting director guest. We frequently see multiple actors appear together in different shows ("Oh those three were in X together.") and it appears to be more frequent than coincidence would allow. Is that down to the casting director working with "favourites"?

[@DubloAirfix]

Field of Dreams, a film that I want to hate, but always delivers. A proper modern day parable. (Context: I'm a Tasmanian living in France so baseball isn't really on my radar). Loving both your podcast and KZbin version. Many thanks Guy

[@tammurray8576]

The Vinnie Jones version of Mean Machine is actually pretty good on a re watch for actual match action. They dedicate a lot of time to it and clearly have actors who can play a bit. They also film most of it on a steady cam like normal TV football

[@susanpilling8849]

On casting: it has always amazed me how the people casting Lord of the Rings could see blond haired, blue eyed Viggo Mortenson as Aragorn. Then the dark curly locks of Orlando Bloom, who was turned into Legolas with a wig of long blond hair.

[@zacharyzorovich5728]

Choke, beat sports doc ever , on KZbin

[@reggycide]

Headlines are click-bait. I may be shallow but I refuse to read socials and stories that I feel are trying to lure me in under false pretences. So the quality and tone of the headline should match the story. Go easy, Subs.

[@simonkaston9306]

Still cannot see Brosnan as Ron. Jim Broadbent all the way

[@martinsamuels9679]

I am not a great fan of football, but I thought the game play on Ted Lasso series was quite realistic

[@johncorp2870]

Bit before your time but “This Sporting Life” with Richard Harris and Rachel Roberts, directed by Lindsay Anderson in 1963

[@tammurray8576]

Mike Bassett England Manager is also thoroughly underrated

[@tightmarker9924]

Mike basset ,England manager. Good laugh.

[@laraneville9952]

Did you see Rhod Gilbert and Greg James's episode of World's Most Dangerous Roads?? That looked really scary! 😰

[@ivanboban6200]

There was a Tom Waits lawsuit where he won big years ago when they hired an impersonator after he turned down the gig.

[@1980redkremlin]

The football wasn't completely terrible in Escape to Victory. Pele's goal for the Allies followed some lovely build up play and an inch perfect cross by Moore. Admittedly the Germans were a bit sloppy in defence

[@euansmith3699]

I liked Lee Child's response to Tom Cruise taking on the role of Jack Reacher. Child's was pleased as punch as you would be; having the top Hollywood actor splashed all over your book covers.

[@ladyflimflam]

Chuffed to hear Richard describe Pierce Brosnan as a great comic actor

[@ILikeBirds80]

There IS a YA book called Bullseye Bella which is about a young darts player. It would make a great film!

[@stevenharris3444]

Moneyball best sports film

[@user-ds8je6jp3e]

Worse sports movie ever made is Yesterday's Hero with Ian McShane, Adam Faith and Suzanne Sommers with the only football team named after a motorway services station called Leicester Forest and written by Jackie Collins loosely based on George Best!

[@itchytf]

The best sporting movie is clearly Cool Runnings!

[@dannyquinn9128]

No episode today?

[@furtherpure]

It’s recent but Challengers is now my favourite sports movie ever, surpassing Wimbledon 😂🎾

[@escellesmith1665]

I love the Thursday Murder Club books, but Peirce Brosnan? Please no - he's not Ron! And don't let him sing!

[@billzuill2617]

Slapshot is an amazing sports movie (also Paul Newman)

[@davidklecha]

The Replacements, a film about American football, is genius that way, I think, because the idea is that most of the featured players are supposed to be terrible. The pros are on strike, and the teams all bring in has-beens and never-weres as scabs to finish out the season. So if they all look terrible, then it's absolutely authentic. And this all works for American football anyway because you can pretty easily use actual athletes in the wide shots what with the helmets and pads and everything.

[@bobstheword620]

You say jobs on film are always wrong but as an accountant I can tell you that Ben Affleck movie was spot on

[@Elitist20]

For the most part, athletes can't act and actors can't athlete.

[@user-ui5mi7ct9l]

Horse racing films can be awful when they’re trying to let the horse win the race. Everyone is supposed to be fighting for the finish but 9 out of 10 of them are desperately trying to slow their horses down

[@R.Daneel]

I'm sure this is apocryphal, but a headline about an assault in a laundry: "NUT SCREWS WASHERS AND BOLTS". And don't forget about "Breaking Away" as a great sports movie.

[@od9694]

Hustle and adam sandler movie on netflix is brilliant and they used real basketball players who actually look like they ate playing basketball

[@IanHenshaw-wx8dl]

I emulated your charisma Marina, I did it for a Bristol Bus driver Darling. It felt amazing to be you for a minute . xxxx LJH

[@shanemurphy8682]

Havent finished listening yet so maybe they mention it but what always annoyed me was in the season 2 finale of ted lasso.....the important goal they get was a MILE offside 😂😂😂

[@colinmaynard2879]

To be fair to actors. They generally have to play a, pretty much, best sportsman ever in their field. They were unmatched by other sportsman.

[@pauldoyle4250]

3 treble 19s

[@paulwswift5226]

Dodgeball.

[@thirstyguy4652]

sports movie - Major league - the game sequences are pretty good - and I think Charlie Sheen was a college level pitcher before his acting career took off.