Why Are People Quitting Yu-Gi-Oh?

[@GiantSkyhawk]

Thank you for watching! o7

[@golderzoa]

the Hawk is taking a long awaited peaceful rest from hell mad respect sir! your innovative deck profiles are really cool. hope your doing well!

[@nonadqs]

o7

[@spicymemes7458]

Were you actually crying at the end? Maybe it's good that you take a step back for mental health reasons. Nobody should be so invested that it brings them to tears, especially for a card game. It's not worth it, man.

[@GiantSkyhawk]

@spicymemes7458 Has a lot less to do with the card prices and a lot more to do with the connections with people that I lose by quitting. A lot of people in-person at locals and online that I'll be talking to less. It really is an overhauling of my life, which is an emotional thing to process!

[@chaserseven2886]

your video was too quite

[@randomUser2121]

I hate so much the "casuals aren't going to events, so they don't need optimized decks" argument. Yes, we do. Listen. What the average casual Andy who has dedicated time to learning the game wants primarily is: to top locals. And I don't know if yours is a 5-person local, but at least in my city, in every local you'd find a good amount of players that have optimized their deck, either they're whales or they're planning for big events. The point is that they are running their sinful spoil packages, the expensive staples that haven't been reprinted to the point they reach a reasonable price, IE: triple Fenrir, thrust, the annoyingly expensive boss monsters that are generic enough to be a must-have: S:P Typhoon. So even at the casual level, the game is gatekeeping people who can't or don't want to throw thousands upon thousands on a hobby

[@MH_Zard]

Yeah. Im so sick of hearing locals and regionals DONT matter. We play the same damn game, the same banlist, same cardpool and will encounter a lot of the same popularized decks and try to optimize anything and everything. All the 'pros' seem to act like it's some closed off circle. You're gonna have whales and you're gonna wanna keep up with them if you want to keep playing. And plenty of locals are pretty huge.

[@bioniclelegend7]

Back when I played my area is tiny so a good day for our locals were 8-10 max and you might think were all playing jank but no. Most of the people playing were playing current meta as they were going to events. This meant you would really want to optimize you deck to the best it could be so that you at least had a chance of doing well and actually getting your money's worth since you do have to pay in locals. This idea that local players don't need to play good cards is so dumb as local players might just want to have fun with them too.

[@nerfirelia8235]

Yep pretty much. People who think the prices of meta cards, rarity gouging, etc. are okay just wanna gatekeep budget players. One of my biggest gripes with the game for sure.

[@ZondaR45]

when people say you don't need "optimized" deck lists to win/top locals they don't mean that other people won't be playing the expensive cards they mean that you can still achieve that goal without all those cards. yes it will be harder and if you go to locals with heaps of legitimately good players then yeah maybe it isn't feasible but generally speaking there are still decks out there right now that don't play thrust/s:p/horus/sinful that you can legit do well and maybe even win locals with and all you need to do is be a better player than your opponent and you'd be surprised how many free wins you'll get that you maybe shouldn't have. by no means am i saying that what we have now is good at all (especially for players who want to play above a locals level) but if you are constrained by budget don't let that stop you from becoming that locals legend who kicks ass

[@ChosenOne-il4bm]

casuals play meta decks and want to have fun

[@Ragnarok540]

This problem is really easy to solve, and Konami has already experimented with it in the rarity collection. Printing cards in multiple rarities ensure people that have lots of money can have the "nice" looking versions, and everyone else can also play. I think this would translate into more people getting into the game. And yeah, remember to vote with your wallet. If you think this is wrong, but you still buy the product, nothing will change.

[@LyubovBoychuk]

So you want print to oblivion?

[@YeahSureLetsGoSeeYamcha]

Or maybe add actual cash prize support like MTG so there’s some justification for these prices.

[@MegaMetal96]

They literally do this in the OCG and the game is MORE POPULAR in Japan. There’s no justification for it

[@MegaMetal96]

@@LyubovBoychukof course.

[@yushithesushi1625]

the problem is also player who sell these cards, even if u print them in common players are still going to make them expensive. remember who sells the cards, cus its not Konami. its the players in the game, why tf are people profiting off of this period. its just like scalpers with any sort of buyable item, players are just as predatory. "oh look everyone wants this card let me make it expensive so i make a bunch of money"

[@FrozunLightning]

I stopped going to locals in the last year because the scene became highly competitive. There was no reason to go for "fun" anymore since everyone else there was playing it as a mini YCS. They were buying the best cards and playing the best decks because they wanted to practice to win. That experience will vary depending on the location of course. I guess everyone at my particular locals just decided to get more competitive over time. There does have to be a space for those types of players after all, but it's not conducive to keeping casuals or attracting new players either. My 3 other close friends stopped playing yugioh outright before I stopped going. Losing 4 long time players might not seem like too much at first, but when you realize that shop in particular had a regular attendance of 10-20 people, losing 4 of those forever is a permanent 20% player base drop at best. There used to be some bad days with only 8 people total after we arrived, so considering a worst case scenario like that, they lost 50% of their players. I went back for the first time in months when rarity collection came out on the first day, and they said they had reduced their yugioh product like many other shops talked about online this past year. My store only had 2 boxes of rarity collection total and they had so much yugioh stuff on the shelves that the owner tried to ask me multiple times to get something. The price point has always been an issue but like Farfa said this can fluctuate depending on the format. I mean hell it could be entirely remedied if people were just allowed to play "casually" with proxies. My locals people did not allow proxy cards. This seems to be a mentality issue with the players of yugioh, because its not something I experienced in other card games. Yes I could have played with proxies with my close friends, except they have quit the game completely now and don't even want to bother with the game anymore. I've also seen people try to get their locals to promote Edison format events, which sounds fun but it's a niche within a niche. And even then, Edison cards are also expensive because so many of them have never been reprinted in 10+ years. Again this could be solved if you were just allowed to play with proxies. I'm sure there are locals out there where they do allow proxies or where the other players aren't so anal about it. From my anecdotal experience I've explained, the phenomenon of the locals dying despite YCS attendance going up is definitely true. It certainly feels like the culture surrounding the game has shifted so far away from casual play to streamlining people into being increasingly more on the competitive side. I imagine this is multi faceted. I think of raran who Farfa talked to last year about why yugioh was too crazy to get into. The game gets more complex over time which makes some people leave and scares new people off even more. Now add on the increasing tension players have with Konami TCG for the way they print their sets and the market prices as a result. This makes people feel priced out of the game, and if it goes on for too long they just outright leave like Skyhawk. And then even more tension as a result of the growing sentiment that ban lists seem more and more blatantly to be used for pushing product instead of balancing the game at all. This all leads to an unpleasant experience for new players and casual players. And if more people leave then you're only left with the people who are still willing to pay a lot of money and play increasingly more competitively. And of course you would want to win because you just spent hundreds of dollars on a few cards, you don't want to drop so much money and still be a loser. And if you don't pay up for you two copies of S:P Little Knight or for your sinful spoils package or whatever else, well there's probably only so many times you can go 0-x at your locals before you finally just quit.

[@goncaloferreira6429]

good post. mentions a lot of the game´s problems.

[@cyprienmonnier9571]

Really good post I try to get into the game and the lack of ressource surrounding the game outside of influencer doesnt help to get into the game. Yugioh lack a casual friendly mode there is only competitive format

[@lucarioknightb7685]

Local stores can't risk hosting events that allow proxies, though. If it gets out, one salty player reports to konami that unofficial product is being allowed because they lost to a printed-out thrust, they could risk losing their store status. Plus, that bring sin people that being a new deck every week but haven't spent a penny on the store. While I agree it would be nice, it's just not sustainable. The only reason proxies are more accepted in magic, for example, is the fiasco that is the Reserve list, and the history of officially-printed "proxies" in the old world champion decks and the like. Yu-Gi-Oh never set that precedent, so for a lot of players it feels really foreign.

[@cyprienmonnier9571]

@@lucarioknightb7685 proxy are also more accepter in magic because of commander being a more casual format and that is not sanctionned. Yugioh only have sanctionned event

[@yoshimitsu4G0]

@@lucarioknightb7685 I mean, obviously proxies can't be used for sanctioned events (in any TCG), but stores also aren't limited to just hosting sanctioned events. Just have a proxy-legal day with store credit as the prizepool or some shit. The nice thing about it being unofficial is that you can adjust the rules to deal with everything else too. An easy way to avoid people bringing a new deck every week is to not allow full-proxy decks and limit the amount of proxies to just enough to cover expensive staples. If you don't want everyone just bringing top meta, ban decks that have a certain % of tops from the event. Also, I think the idea that the store would take a loss on this or that people wouldn't spend a penny is a bit of a misconception. At the end of the day, you're getting bodies at the store that otherwise weren't going to be there, and the more bodies you have in the store, the less you have to rely on selling sealed product. One of my friends ran a local gaming store in my town before the mall his location was at shut down, and he made way more profit off selling us cans of monsters than selling us packs of Yu-Gi-Oh cards, lmao. The issue with the "haven't spent a penny on the store" mentality is that it assumes that the person would have spent a penny on the store if it weren't for the allowance of proxies, which is just blatantly wishful thinking. If you were to hypothetically advertise a proxy event and then at the last minute decide there wasn't enough profit incentive, this would not result in the attendees saying "ah, fair, I see your point" and then spending $1k on cardboard they otherwise wouldn't have spent. Instead, they probably wouldn't be there, and that would be X less amount of people hanging out and buying drinks and maybe the odd pack or two to crack for funsies.

[@aeugh8998]

The only saving grace is that my country actually got the Official OCG Print, so whenever someone wanna play they can actually buy shit, and not waste half a year of their salary for one deck (Yeah this is not a joke, the whole sinful spoil and current meta staple Extra Deck monster actually cost half a year of salary in my country currency if we are following the TCG, and doesn't include the shipping cost)

[@grimdeth2197]

$15 deck core with a $1000 engine 😎

[@ThatOneWeirdFlex]

Ghoti, but a $300 engine baby!

[@thehereandnow8673]

​@@ThatOneWeirdFlex what engine is that?

[@Pyrrha_Nikos]

Engine also gets powercrept or banned in 3 months

[@kevinbuckmon4034]

Facts

[@hecatrice2064]

@@Pyrrha_NikosAlso: Core gets banned cuz a meta deck is using part of it and Konami can’t directly hit the archetype yet or ppl will stop buying it.

[@johnboona4048]

The problem with Yugioh is Konami keeps making expensive broken cards and then they're just gonna ban the card later on lol

[@randommaster06]

Opening boxes doesn't have to be a slot machine. Speeding each archetype through the different rarities instead of bumping the anticipated one to ultra/secret rare makes a big difference.

[@martijnhertog4802]

Can we not come together as a community and all agree to not by product until they change to the pokemon printing model. If we got commons for all cards so budget players can play and crazy full arts for the collectors.

[@f687sNFM]

Tell that to the try hards

[@Zpbrad]

Vendors will always buy them I'd assume

[@martijnhertog4802]

@@Zpbrad Depends on how many people join in, if several content creators would join in Konami would probably respond. The problem is that they are heavyly disincentived to do this since they will most likely lose Konamis support/ goodwill and free product.

[@RSanchez111]

It is so refreshing to be playing Pokemon and the most expensive cards in the top meta decks can be bought for less than $10. You could make a meta deck for $75.

[@netcat22]

A lot of things would be better if we collectively agreed to not do particular things. The world doesn't work that way though.

[@bramvaessen1576]

Agreed on the shipment cost. It is horrendous. Cards can cost as little as 0.01$/€, but still you pay 2.00 or more

[@Binzob]

Me trying to buy a set of cards that are worth 50c but no one has more than one copy so I'd be paying almost $20 NZD for it.

[@ducky36F]

Card prices are also insane in Australia. Pretty much if you’re outside of the US or Europe you are bonned for prices.

[@thecardgame_mercenary]

SP should've never been printed in the first place. It's another broken Link-2 which at some point will get reprinted and still cost like 60-80€ and then will get banned shortly after. Plus I feel there was never really a need for this card. Nobody ever complained about I:P into Unicorn. It was never a bad play. Now we have I:P into S:P, which of course is much better. People complained about Anaconda, which even if you got disrupted, you could still make with 2 bodies on your field and go for Dragoon or DPE to have a Disruption. But what's the difference between Anaconda and S:P? If you get disrupted nowadays, you make S:P instead and effectively have a DPE without having to play bricks and losing an ED Slot. So S:P is basically Anaconda and DPE (in better) in a single card. And against some decks especially at rogue level banishing their normal is a turn end. Keep in mind your Opponent used their handtraps if you only end on S:P so on your next turn, after S:P banishes their normal you can go off if you draw into a starter or extender, which if you have S:P, you'll probably play a top tier deck and those are often one card combos, so the probability of you drawing into something playable is much higher. In conclusion: Konami ban S:P Shitle Knight.

[@619ver1]

True...like i thought they maybe not try to print generic, broken as heck link 2 anymore...

[@vonakakkola]

why is SP so broken? no negates and the banish is until the end phase, it seems just a useful toolbox ok that would hit too hard a deck that rely on normal summon, but there are cards that are way worse and still generic, and maybe theese "normal summon" decks can simply destroy SP by battle before making their combo (if SP is the only problem, but i now today's deck don't end their board with just SP, but cards like Baronne is a huge problem just by itself) if for DPE you mean "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer", its destruction is forever (for the opponent) and it can be used any time the player want, while SP, as i said, is until the end phase and the opponent must activate an effect for triggering it, i prefer to face SP rather than DPE, and i main charmers (with Magistus engine), my deck still rely on normal summons

[@thecardgame_mercenary]

@@vonakakkola SP power crept Unicorn, DPE, Azalea, Donner and to an extend Verte. And DPE destroys, which let's some Decks play because they can trigger stuff in the GY. SP banishes and there aren't many Decks, that can play onward if they only drew one Starter that needs to stay on field to continue their plays. What you forget is, that in most cases you NEED to use the effect of your normal summon before you go to battle to get an extender of some sorts. And the scenario that I mentioned is, you are going 2nd. You already used 3 Handtraps on your Opponent and have a starter plus a card, that you would've wanna searched mid combo in Hand and for Turn you drew ash. Now keep in mind as I said before. Most Decks nowadays need like 1-2 cards to combo, and even if you handtrap them 3 Times, like in this scenario they can still end on something, here it is SP and still have 3 Cards in Hand, most likely handtraps or follow up. So if SP banishes until the ep and comes back, your Opponent has another draw so he potentially has, unless he used some of the cards he had on your turn, a Monster on field that can be used to link climb and 4 cards in Hand to resume his plays and maybe win on the crackback. Also yes, Baronne and Apolloussa need to go. Savage is not as oppressive, as it first needs to equip itself so it has the negates, plus he doesn't destroy the card.

[@619ver1]

@@vonakakkola The big problem is, end of the turn is long enough and its generic without you needing to throw in any furthcer bricks in the main or extra and without any further costs.

[@thecardgame_mercenary]

@@619ver1 this Person gets it. If DPE would be better than S:P people would play DPE. But it's not.

[@ChaoticSynergist]

the only sealed box ive ever opened and been happy was the 25th rarity collection. even if i had them, getting good generic meta staples always felt good

[@youtubeenjoyer7279]

my locals allowed players to use print outs and guess what we average around 50-70 players every sat & sunday

[@youtubeenjoyer7279]

this shows " the reason that prevents new players from playing the game" - is not how difficult it is to play but on HOW EXPENSIVE IT IS.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

@@youtubeenjoyer7279yup exactly. Shit is toooo expensive for a game that is pay 2 win and requires studying like law school

[@619ver1]

Well about the locals dying, the issue is quite simple, less local->people would have to drive/travel further and not bother->lss people going to locals. Feels like a domino effect, at leats here in germany. Nearest local to me would be like an 1 hour drive away and i am working fulltime so thats not happening really

[@ducky36F]

It wouldn’t loose Konami money to swap to the ocg model, but businesses are risk averse and won’t change anything as long as that line chart is going up. By the time they fix it it will be to late.

[@GranMaj]

"If your rogue deck isn't good with it either, why would you need the engine in the first place" Because they want to play deck they like, and the engines makes the deck playable. It would make older deck less dependend on future legacy supports for viability. This kind of people that will kill the game if Yu gi oh is a smaller card games. This destructive mentality that discourage experimentation, diversity and pushed out newer or semi competitive players out of the game that is frustrating. Konami had a new players problem for years and these guys want to make it even worse?

[@RayRae008]

If your deck has no synergy with an engine then do not force the synergy. That just leads to building a bad deck. His example of ogdoatic there is no lvl 1 fire reptile that helps his engine. So basically there is no point in making it work with the wanted engine. Yugioh has over 10000 cards you can come up with a list that works for your playstyle and wins you games at a local level, maybe a regional level. But higher level of competition of course these expensive cards/engine shines.

[@dixogaming926]

Yeah give the man some respect, he have his reasons even though is just 1 single opinion it still valid.

[@th3redcomet374]

The problem is that ygo is best played optimally, and the line between optimal and competitive is thin. The other problem is the lack of restrictions in engines/archetypes, there is no reason you should be able to just jam in 3 different one card starter engines into any given deck.

[@drunkennephilim2995]

Moved to One Piece last year, it honestly feels really good to see a new deck i want to build and be able to do it at full power by buying 2 boxes then picking up the last 4-8 high rarity single cards for roughly £15

[@Zac_the_Intern]

So long as you don’t need a starter deck card. It’s a little harder to get into now (a ton of buyouts happened after set 5 dropped), but it is leagues better than coming into ygo atm

[@drunkennephilim2995]

@@Zac_the_Intern yeah true, kinda sad that an introductory product is so expensive.

[@Mr.WarwickBot]

I feel like we have been abused for so long… we are finally in the “I’m not taking this anymore” arch. Glad that we are standing up. Im not going to continue to play YGO as long as they treat us like garbage.

[@thebigandlazyguy246]

Same I reached the breaking point, quit half a year ago and haven't looked back nor wanted to.

[@peepeevs]

I will chime in a bit as one of the MD-only players here: I have very often considered playing the game in paper, but the number 1 issue that keeps me from doing so is the pricing. And it's not just me. Every time I hear any MD-only player, it is always this barrier that keeps them from playing TCG.

[@Ragnarok540]

Same here. I think the only possibility for me to get into the paper game is if Konami implements the multiple rarities system in all their sets.

[@VnD77]

Same. I'd be going to locals already if the cards were cheaper. But we wait..

[@d3v1lsummoner]

I technically started with paper, but never played outside of friends. I played MD mainly then made a paper melffy tri-brig deck for like 300 usd. Meanwhile in MD I've been able to build meta competitive decks for free in MD. I still occassionally buy paper sealed product, but MD is just so much more rewarding on the whole.

[@TheShadowcomet]

Huge Changes are needend. The OCG model is one Step, the prizes for the boxes set by Konami for Deckbuilding packs and Duelist Packs down or increase the Pullrates Significantly. And bring Rares back in Main Sets, we need less Cards in Secret and Ultra Slot. Then the changes to pull the actuall good cards is higher.

[@shermhart7617]

I dont play Yu-Gi-Oh myself, i just collect. Wish i had time to learn but life, kids, work its just impossible but love the art work. My problem is too much product drop from them. So new stuff all the time its hard to keep up with what to get next.

[@aessilverfang8003]

Konami should just switch to the OCG model or at least make rarity collection the new mega tins. With the rarity collection = megatins the competitive players will get the cards on or a month or 2 after release and the casual base gets easier access to all cards printed in that year. It also allows people like competitive players to upgrade staples or even their deck cores in 25th, ulti or collectors rare.

[@Amazigh_Gaming]

Original video : low sound Farfas voice : Loud good luck 😂 *Locals in canada are defnly dying*

[@TheDeadlyTikka]

The ocg model is the way. It benefits the end user and Konami. Now there is an incentive to buy packs, you stand a better chance of getting the cards you need without relying on the second hand market which Konami benefits nothing from

[@Yggdrasill-X]

my local attendance went from 3x a week to zero since 2020 xD

[@joaopedroribeiro1483]

Last time i bought boosters was in 2017 and 2020 And I expect to never open one again

[@Zetact_]

It's simple. In any game you will have three sets of people: casual, core, and hardcore. They form a pyramid - most of the audience is casual, then core, and hardcore is the smallest segment of the audience. In order to reach the next "ladder" people need to progress through the previous stages, and many people might go down a ring because they prefer the game in that less hardcore environment. It's possible to make a game that you can monetize by appealing to the hardcore specifically (F2P games are usually contingent not on a ton of people spending a few bucks here and there but on a small number of people who whale) but if you aren't friendly to the casual audience you won't have people getting into the game and if you aren't friendly to the core audience you won't have people push into hardcore. Side sets like Duelists of Explosion are obviously meant to MAINLY appeal to the core audience - people who are more into the game than "Dark Magician Blue Eyes yay" but not necessarily the kind of people who like competitive. Seeing those sets flop should message where to improve, assuming they did fine in Japan. If you look at why people aren't getting into Yugioh or why they're quitting it frequently involves competitive decks and how they don't like the game's power creep. Reworking the product model seems like it isn't addressing the primary issue that the game faces - the main issue in any game is not "holding onto your hardcore audience." Though you do want to ensure you are appeasing the hardcore players, they're hardcore so they are easier to hold onto. The biggest issue is that the game is almost exclusively catered to the hardcore player base. It's a bit of a long shot but I think that with things like Last Card Standing as a proof of concept, having a lower power level format that is used for locals could be better for the people who aren't hardcore. And don't call it "Heart of the Underdog" or "Time Wizard" or "Vanity's Emptiness" because that makes it sound like it's just a gimmick that Konami doesn't take seriously. My suggestion is to call it "Standard", because that implies that yes, this is a part of the main game and it will be supported. The ideal "Standard" format would use the same, normal rule set and card pool but just have a banlist aggressive enough to push games into being around 7-9 turns before a winner is apparent. More hardcore events using the already named "Advanced" format also makes sense - if you want to move from Standard to Advanced then by its very name it implies you'll have a more hardcore, high-power format. Adding in Standard means you do need to curate a format but it wouldn't require massive changes to product lines and if products are selling better on average it would allow for more staples to be printed at low rarity without impacting sales - it would be even better to do that, if there were people who aren't playing Advanced because when they buy a product they'd have a better chance of just pulling cards that are only for Advanced format. That's a long shot, for less of a long shot I'd just say that letting product be print on demand could be useful as well. Imagine hearing, "There's new Stardust Dragon cards coming out," and saying, "Oh, I loved 5D's" but finding out in the set they don't have reprints of cards you didn't get in a period where you weren't playing physical that are essential for the strategy. "Well, guess I won't buy it."

[@anavn1]

My locals has around 30-40 players for time wizard and less then 10 for advanced to the point weekend events are now moved to time wizard because of how low the entry barrier is.

[@Dinkbass]

Aboit half of the local facebook group (active daily user's) just quit ouuta nowhere a week ago. Ive been getting back in for about 2 months and thats just unfortunate

[@W0WlS]

This is why I have only been playing master duel lately

[@Malao558]

When I first started playing, Ash Blossom had only just released its first printing, and it was about $300 a copy. Until the end of that year, the base price for any deck that wanted to be competitive started at $900 USD regardless of the deck you wanted to play. Other games will have outliers, but I don't see outliers this extreme outside of Yugioh. Cards in yugioh are overwhelmingly worth pennies, with a select few cards worth 20 dollars, and an even smaller few worth over 100. If you ignore the last two categories, it is absolutely possible to build a deck for an unbelievably low price, but MBT's Broke Boy Adamancipator list is extremely far from capable of performing competitively. It might help this issue to separate the game piece from the chase card. Maybe the next Baronne or Little Knight has a printing at low rarity, with an exceptionally rare alternate artwork or full-art variant for whales to chase and pad Konami's bottom line.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

Ughh that’s why players simp so hard now for Ass blossom and Joyless spring. They all paid out the ass for her unfair advantage and now that everyone has her they don’t want to acknowledge she’s a toxic broken card who totally ruins the fun of the game

[@UTgohan]

I always wonder how people today get into yugioh, the game was more simple back in the day and had an actual anime to back up the card game, today there is no anime airing and the game is even more complicated so I’m curious how people just decide to play yugioh in todays age lol

[@sketter1775]

If you're worried about price, consider buying/making proxies instead. Make 'em as close to authentic as you can, and enjoy the game without the 500 dollar price tag.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

We should honestly just start printing our own cards until konami gets their fucking shit together.

[@duanew587]

​@@isidoreaerys8745 if you want to just play with your friends, nothing js stopping you from using proxies

[@apezplays9925]

I basically quit yugioh in 2020 and replaced it with Warhammer of all things and it's legitimately much cheaper to play

[@destroier920]

Shipment costs and customs fees can be insanely high. I was buying cards from the US and the customs and shipment costs were almost 1:1 with the card cost, and those cards weren't cheap.

[@bioniclelegend7]

I started playing the game in 2018 and stopped playing in 2019 as I found the game too expensive. I was in college and found both paying for travel to events and cards just not worth it. Even buying pretty big cards for locals to me is just a waste. People were saying toss was cheap with salad it wasn't. Cynet was expensive as it was secret and you needed a three of. Engage was short printed and really expensive for striker. Even today I have no interest in comming back mainly because of what Farfa said on shipping. I live in Ireland so have the same issue of either the shipping is cheap but the card is really expensive (more than it is worth) or vice versa. My friends love playing Edison and keep trying to get me to keep playing with them but gathering old cards and paying quite a bit for them just isn't worth it for me. I will admit though I have no issue with putting money into this game. I have spent to date $1,772.82 on masterduel. I love that game so much because it's so much more worth it. I did a quick count of decks I own and I have at least 53 decks in that game probably more that can be almost completed. If spent that same amount of money on the tcg I would not have anywhere the same amount of competitively meta decks or even jank budget decks. One of the decks I loved when I played unironically was code talkers BEFORE cynet mining and micro coder. I bought all the code talker structure and starter decks and loved messing around with them. So, when I saw that the ocg had new cards like micro code talker which solved so much for the deck and was going to be in the last starter, I couldn't wait. Then the TCG just didn't print it and shoved the cards into either the new yugioh game (Which I had no console to play on) or the new fire fist set at them which just made the cards stupidly expensive for how useless they were. The crafting system in masterduel helps this so much and while the TCG can't do a crafting system, the OCG rarity system solves everything. I saw so many people praising the set and saying how they could finally play baronne which confused me when I saw it as I have been playing baronne in almost all my decks on masterduel but then I remembered that card has been really expensive for years but now is extremely affordable in super. If TCG implemented OCG system I would come back in a heartbeat. Considering how we are getting rarity collection 2, it seems like they are experimenting with it. Personally I would love to come back earlier as I want to play Raika Beetroopers (been loving playing beetroopers in masterduel and experimenting with the deck) but doubt it will be implemented by legacy of destructio nand raika will be probably be the next overpriced archetype for how good it is. On balance, ngl I think I just have an abnormal tolerance for bullshit. I played in 2018 euros and fucking despised playing against gouki but never felt quitting. I would be fine with banning any number of cards if Maxx C was banned in masterduel as fuck that card but at most over the 2 years I have played the game I have only ever taken 1 month break from the game. I think what keeps me playing as well is the regular on time banlist updates. I fucking wish the TCG banlist at least updated once a quater. While I wasn't playing at the time. I think it was insane that there was a like an 8 month span of no banlist during tear meta. The deck didn't need to die but limit or semi limit something and then updated it again like a month later because I think they realised how bad they screwed up taking so long to update the damn list.

[@bioniclelegend7]

@notmyname4478 On the amount I have played since release and bought every sale gems and max bundle of gems every now and again. I actually have gone months without spending any money. On the name yeah I have this channel since I was 11 and it was the first username I ever came up with so I kept it. Now that I look at when I made the channel and I was watching youtube a year before I made it I feel like I should be in a retirement home with how much it has changed over the years. MAKE BIONICLE MOC VIDEOS GREAT AGAIN.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

Imagine konami charging $1,772.82 to purchase Yu-Gi-Oh! the Eternal Duelist Soul or Yu-Gi-Oh! World Championship Tournament 2004…… When did it become acceptable for games to charge the price of a Vehicle to play a bare bones simulator with great sound design and a couple animated .PNG images?

[@n4b5ter41]

Master duel is free to play lmao you can easily have 2 or 3 decks if you play regularly for free. Could be playing tcg for that much lol

[@Ninjya44]

I ended up quitting master duel after about a week (VERY VERY new to the game). Made a few decks with a Kaiju base (pure, gizmek, danger, and extra deck), got to platinum 4, then got utterly walled. I can see myself coming back, but i am simply not enjoying the utopia/numeron dragon 1 shots, the infinite card recycling from the GY, and just the sheer amount of time i need to put in to learning card counters. I saw a spirit deck that looked to just completely wall the opponent. Maybe in a few months when i have time.

[@gamersreactions9267]

There isnt a single good spirit deck in the game, numeron dragon isnt a problem either in higher ranks. Id suggest playing Duel Links first

[@ThatOneWeirdFlex]

​@@gamersreactions9267except DL has a bigger whale problem than MD does. I tried F2P in it and couldn't stand to play for more than an hour without wanting to bash my brains in with a rusty wrench.

[@619ver1]

I am honest...there is no way around learning the cards and combos.

[@Ninjya44]

@@619ver1 agree, it's such a time sink!

[@isidoreaerys8745]

Numeron dragon absolutely is a problem in all ranks and there’s no counter play to it. Either you drew imperm or you lose.

[@phantomgg7790]

5 minutes:no you are completely wrong here, you can not compete right now if you can't afford snake eyes, or snake eyes fire kings, look at all the topping events and it's just as bad if not worse than BLS chaos format. they are one sidedly dominating everything.

[@tbyhmes1184]

Next set in ocg. Link 1/2 fluffal, fluffal tuner, frightfur synchro, and generic fluffal rank 3. :3

[@KikiCatMeow]

I would sell both my kidneys and an arm for konami to release that

[@aaronfromlv1552]

Skill drain is at 3 because it's worse than those other ones... it's not the going first play that does it.... it's that they remove bodies from the board going second... if you skill drain a full board you still have to beat through while you are negated, if you gozen a full board you remove their bodies and can still probably combo through

[@joeymayson8279]

Tcg makes yoloing gatcha on MD looks like good financial purchase

[@spicymemes7458]

I don't see why people are averse to buying gems. One of the big bundles is 50 packs and can make another deck.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

@@spicymemes7458fucking wrong. Making dinomorphia cost me 15k.

[@spicymemes7458]

@@isidoreaerys8745 I didn't say any deck. Dinomorphia is ridiculously expensive for the core.

[@AshBlossomWorshiper]

24:45 Dueling Network is like Master duel but with all the cards and you dont have to worry about gems

[@caiovieira2168]

Farfa knows, there's old videos on the channel with him playing on it; but since he's officially related to Konami know, he can't recognize the existence of non-official simulators, that's why he's joking saying that he doesn't know it. That's also the reason why Table 500 stoped using EDOPRO and went to Master Duel.

[@spicymemes7458]

Network/Book was fine, but I think Master Duel is a better product.

[@AshBlossomWorshiper]

@@spicymemes7458 absolutely. I completely agree. I'm just saying some of the things Dueling book and Network have that master duel dont.

[@spicymemes7458]

@@AshBlossomWorshiper free access to the entire card pool upfront is an unbeatable benefit

[@dancemademyday3686]

Well here is also a reason not to go to a local or other Tournaments .. dispute. I was not at hundreds of diffrent tornaments BUT the amount of issues people have and disputes that come up bcs somebody is sharking or timeplaying or just be mad bcs the game is often unbalanced or rulings that some not know or simply just lying about something about the gamestate or other odd things is so freaking bad at least in my ( and friends) exprience that its almost Impossible to enjoy yugioh anymore.. the people itself are more than 50% toxic.. just not fun.

[@duyknguyen]

We do have proxies for casual duel guys... we can still enjoy Yugioh in its core of "FUN" 😅 or even OCG and AE print like we have in the Asia and we have super rare SP for like 8$

[@Realblack_m0nster]

Unfortunately you can't use them in tournaments

[@spicymemes7458]

Hey good for you. The English Edition for Asia thing is why I am not interested in TCG product anymore because it shows we can have English prints with an OCG distribution model and they choose to keep the region locks.

[@Fallen_Blade]

Yeah I couldn’t spend $1,000 for 45 min matches with a total of 10 turns average, just sitting there looking at those pricey cards knowing I’m going to lose turn 3 lmao even winning isn’t worth it

[@MaxxSea]

Due to inflation $100 will only get me 3 bags of groceries or one staple card that will be irrelevant in 6 months. I quit paper YGO for MD.

[@Richiedoesmc]

Yeah if the wanted engine was cheaper everyone would pull to get it. But Konami is set in stone on the TCG model until people just stop buying products.

[@WhoEvenCares]

I used to compete with a kinda cheap Windwitch / Crystal Wing burn deck at locals and some regionals, and I was usually topping. This was back in like 2017. Got most of my cards through locals (other than my burn engine which was cheap asl) and friendly competitions. The one thing is that most players hate you for playing burn, at least they used to

[@sanda5226]

as someone who is semi-comeptitively playing Yugioh for a decade attending locals is not worth it. Be it rogue or Meta, the deck needs to be very optimized to have a chance. Not having the most commonly used staples in your deck is a severe disadvantage. It would require a lot of money just to be on an equal level with everyone. And a lot more money to have a chance to top.

[@619ver1]

True, i think the main issue is that people at Locals are...competitive as well. They go to tournaments after all. Like people who play anything and go to a tournament, even if small want to bring their a game.

[@sanda5226]

@@619ver1 true the only difference being, at a lower table you might encounter someone using a budget or fun deck. That´s probably likely only after going 0-2 tho

[@duanew587]

Staples are expensive? No, we just had the rarity collection. Staples don't require a lot of money. The only money cards are Horus, bonfire and SP and you don't need those to be semi-conpetitive

[@sanda5226]

@@duanew587 small correction: staples don't require a vast amount of money right in the moment. Of course there are always periods of reprints were staples get slightly more accessible. But saying that just because staples get reprinted they are never expensive is missrepresenting the point I am making. Maybe you are just talking about the current status quo, and that's fair. But I was referring to around a decade of general experience. Also very often when staples become cheap, newer kinds of staples are right around the corner and it's gonna start all over again.

[@KikiCatMeow]

I wish more sets followed the rarity collection. Not only does it make good cards cheap, but it also makes buying packs actually feel worthwhile. Every (or almost every) card in that set was usable in some capacity. Everything from Droplets to Fairy Tail Luna, Jackalope to Savage. You felt like you at least got something worthwhile, even if the value of the cards was less than what you spent on a pack. Main sets, and especially side sets, don’t feel like that. If you don’t pull the hyper expensive chase card, you feel like you wasted 5$

[@XmortoxX1990]

Konami should just 😊 every other Japanese TCG does, and just make the chasing rare cards alt cards, and they can do it BECAUCE THAT HOW OCG WORKS TOO. For the price of ONE Bonfire or S:P Little Knight, you can build one deck of either Pokémon, Digimon, or One Piece. Thank god for Master Duel, or else I would've never try YGO again.

[@stefanhuber7357]

“Why are people quitting yugioh?” Because they are not trying out retro formats like Edison, Tengu,….and even goat!

[@GamerGeek527]

The problem is what about people who wanna play casual decks from the modern era? Edison, Tengu and Goat won't allow those and are a frozen point in time.

[@ChaoticMeatballTV]

I'm just gonna start calling Farfa's stream "Bumblef**k Farms" after that was said in this video. I don't know why but that got me laughing for about 30 seconds straight lol

[@IconicShadows]

I'm from the UK & because I work nights and I like to sleep I don't really play anymore because of this.

[@Desvaswarrior]

My locals has been up but I think that might be partly because we had two stores that were doing Yu-Gi-Oh and the other one shut down so everyone's come to this one and every week I see new faces and every two or three weeks I see people who've been there before so it's about the same every week but it's constantly different people which could be taken as a good thing

[@YGO_Renaissance]

Couple people (probably two digit number) will quit because of this. Nothing will change

[@DesperateOak48]

I will say, I've opened a lot of boxes for both YGO and DIgimon. I have had noticeably better time opening Digimon boxes than YGO boxes, and I feel like Digimon boxes have almost always been worth it. YGO boxes have almost never felt worth it

[@isidoreaerys8745]

The Yugioh pack opening experience feels like emotional trauma. Like being addicted to hard drugs. Hating yourself chasing the dragon.

[@DesperateOak48]

@@isidoreaerys8745 I literally felt the same withdrawals quitting YGO that I felt when I quit cigarettes. And that’s a huge red flag

[@mirailemon9905]

Thank good I live in the west of Ireland won locals today with lyrilusc tri brigade

[@lucarioknightb7685]

In regards to the shipping discussion; every time I've pulled together deck lists online, I've spent as much, or nearly as much, on the shipping as the cards. It's brutal. Across both magic and Yu-Gi-Oh. Absurdly frustrating. And the ratio does scale down in higher their decks, but spending 60 on a chaos angel, you still expect to spend $2-5 on shipping, which is absurd. I know I'm a budget player, but damn this isn't right.

[@dtxwav8454]

I litrally started back 2 years ago, got super passionate, changed phones, and decided to not isntall again. Its too expensive, i only really have 1 deck and my two other decks i deconstructed to make thsi ine. Screw this crazy prices

[@goatyachty1762]

Ive gotten around 20 people to quit yugioh in about 6 months! Im super stoked! Were playing magic commander decks around 100 dollars at locals and we dont have to worry about them being useless in months because theyll always keep their strength

[@cadasshada9732]

Currently the meta is sin engine / horus engine then throw a archtype main engine to compete...

[@joshgilder9877]

I actually agree that Konami uses the banlist to push product they did exactly that with master duel when it launched they unbanned cards like rhongo and changed the limit on others like mighty master no one could say they didn't know how broken some of the cards they did this for where exactly why I stopped playing yu gi oh

[@wesalefle]

Farfa: there are ways to compete with out spending 1000$ on the top deck Also farfa: ew wtf bro why are you playing Dinos and fluffles?? Pick up a real deck!

[@FarfaHighlights]

I didn't say that.

[@GiantSkyhawk]

"I bought Thrust to compete with Fluffal" is objectively just a funny sentence lmao. Farfa was super fair about this and this doesn't seem like what he meant at all. I guess to clarify what sucks is that at the time the price difference between a Dino deck and an optimal Dino deck was...two or three more Dino decks. This was true on release of both Pot of Prosperity and Triple Tactics Thrust. The price of entry to a rogue deck is often low, but the price of *optimization* is often anywhere from 2-4 times the price of the initial deck investment for just a couple of cards. I can't justify doing that anymore! Obviously there are ways to play at a local level for less than $1000, but even if your goal is to top a regional you're likely looking at $400+. Once in a blue moon there's a Dinomorphia top on an 80$ decklist, but even aznpersuasion's YCS Top 32 Runick Stun List was $300 (and that was the cheapest deck to top that event by a wide margin).

[@wesalefle]

@@GiantSkyhawk yeah no I getcha man keeping up with this game is a rat race

[@wesalefle]

@@FarfaHighlights you right. I definitely put words in your mouth

[@golderzoa]

no farfa being an MBT mod is a sign for help

[@alirezaap8653]

I really hate konami and miss the old yugioh

[@sorubro2193]

because the game is not only expensive, it's too complex to newcomers and turns take forever, cards have the text of a short novel ...etc

[@SageTigerStar]

it's not a problem, they call those FEATURES and they're proud of all of them. Also, if you can't afford a hobby, you shouldn't have one. Stop enjoying things that the secondary market says you can't afford, sell the stuff you already have and go play a game that isn't this one because you're not committed enough to spend your rent on the new engine.

[@yushithesushi1625]

a kids game is now a hobby? maybe all of our groceries should sky rocket in price too bc well ppl need it so why not make it expensive so we can profit more, tell me why players feel the need to make so much money off of cardboard. your logic is so flawed, if you cant see that its a problem of how predatory it is ur purposefully ignoring it so you feel better. @@SageTigerStar

[@sorubro2193]

@@SageTigerStar honestly can't tell if you are being sarcastic or just stupid

[@hamsandwich6685]

@@SageTigerStar what a garbage take.. Go pay 450+ for your triple bonfire and smile while you're milked. You're exactly the tool they love to use to fix their income at your expense. Everyone else with brains in their head, just make proxies.

[@Farhan-ny8wt]

@@yushithesushi1625 I think he’s being sarcastic lol

[@Lvl1Glaceon]

Know Yugioh since it came out. Stopped collecting around the end of gx era (still got that holo 1 Edition Black Magician though :p) Came back to play on edo pro around 2015. Stopped at the end of 2017, after playing sooo damn much. Didn't enjoy the way the game became though Now I came back trying Master Duel. Hit Master rank within a week and I somewhat enjoyed it. So I made the decision to get a real deck and start going to locals, maybe socialize a bit Deck of choice was Purrely, cause I like cute things. And it's easier to realise immediatly than the Dragon deck I would want to build I'm below 100€ total still and I got basically all the archetype cards in 2 or 3 copies - Price including the Fire Kings Structure Deck I bought, and the rarity collection I ordered Especially the rarity collection is enticing, since they got some nice staples. And speaking of staples, those are the hard ones to get by. Structure Decks got handtraps, but you gotta buy different Structure Decks in 3, to have all the copies you need. And on top of that some extra deck monster outside the archetype. It adds up. And yes, I do need all of that, even when it's only casually going to locals. Is how the cookie crumbles, and I'm not a rich man. So it's a bit frustrating

[@adwdwdwas]

The OCG model would be great! I'd argue necessary to have more players come into the game. Keep the TCG banlist since it's better

[@grimmspectrum1547]

I've said this stuff elsewhere any decks that cause other players to not be able to play should be banned in their entirety. And a deck should never cost hundreds of dollars. What it is is a bunch of people min-maxing the same five meta decks they need to unban some of the banned cards that could counter these five decks like fiber jar and then errata it with cannot be negated buy other cards effects and make that card really cheap.

[@whales312]

Him crying at the end made me not validate this… like go clean your room go workout Jesus Christ 😅

[@Xehnas]

I empathize with a lot of what he said, but just gonna say there is interactivity in pokemon you just have to do it on your own turn. And you have to choose between using supporters like arven or jacq who help stabalize your game with searching or things like Iono or Boss' Orders to disrupt your opponent. And pokemon cannot evolve the turn they are played so you have more than enough time to snipe basic/stage 1s as long as you are happy not using the supporters you have for searching, you can still even use stuff like ultra ball, so its not completely out of the question.

[@AnotherWindaSimp]

I am too building a spellcaster deck just for fun and collection, paying 5$ of shipping from tcg player over a card that's like 65 cents is absurd to me. This game got expensive over time,and it was inevitable,but yet konami milks its player base with more expensive and busted cards coming out in every new set,because they know it will sell, and it somehow does. Fml

[@UTgohan]

Dark armed return format and teledad were way more expensive, dark armed itself was 250-300 and if you didn’t have 3 you were at a disadvantage. Allure of darkness was like 60 and you ran 3, destiny draw and malicious was also up to 50-60 and you ran 3 each of both those cards lol and that’s not counting the other cards in the deck that I might be missing plus the extra deck in teledad format

[@hecatrice2064]

Sure but that was one deck, during one format, in a time where Yugioh was arguably peaking. Now it’s every deck, every format and the game keeps getting more expensive with more 0 tier formats, so players are forced to spend more if they wanna compete. The last time I personally remember a budget tier 1 deck was the Monarch structure deck in 2016.

[@UTgohan]

You are absolutely correct, and they keep recycling and repeating the same thing it seems every format is a tier zero deck going on it’s dumb

[@rionsteiner4422]

Many YuGituber says people are quitting and leaving and others says that YuGiOh is dying, but one thing I certain, after a decade YuGiOh still there and lots of people still playing wether it was physical or digital format.

[@Zachary-jt5uz]

My locals died like 10 years ago 🤣😂 i have like no locals within a hour of me anymore.

[@esrohm6460]

so i started playing yugioh for real around when xyz came out and then i played it until pends came out and that was the last time i did play paper. i just right of the get go did not see yugioh prizes to be reasonable and only spend money on some core engines of decks i liked buying them more like they are art pieces

[@TheHairyHobbe69]

I think that the problem is cost and play, it's boring or too expensive to play. People don't play for fun anymore. it's all about winning and the meta. If konami want to do better, then they need to balance out the game and be more thoughtful about the cards they are printing and print fewer cards. Also, player's need to be less toxic to each other

[@mayonasepizza]

do you know what set design in YuGiOh needs right now? Cards that only come in ghost rare, possible ones include link 1 monsters and field spels.

[@Bird1912]

Even dino can work with wanted. A lot of rogue decks can that nobody thinks of. Generaider and probably more non fire decks are helped by the wanted package

[@Realblack_m0nster]

Is it coz misc is a fire? That's crazy

[@Bird1912]

@@Realblack_m0nster well to fully explain it the effect of evolitile Megachirella is tribute a reptile special a lvl 6 or lower fire dino. so then you summon evolsaur lios which can set an evol trap and also since it was summoned via the effect of a fire monster it can send a fire dinosaur to gy to change the lvls of 2 monsters on the field. So you could send misc and make 2 monsters lvl 4 or send xeno metororus to make both 6 so you can xyz into evolzar monsters but you could just send misc without changing lvls and get the combo rolling. unfortunately both diabellstar and the evoltile require discarding 1 each but it seems worth it especially when you consider it outs droplet and dark ruler no more with lars. they activate either and don't send a trap in droplet's case and you chain singularity to xyz on their turn and trigger lars as chain link 3 to negate the chain link 1. could also summon lios with the rest of dino engine just no sending but if we have already done misc stuff you don't need to send it and you will get the trap

[@icholi88]

The problem is they can't overprint because LGS' are already unable to push sealed product and the model is too abusive for people to fish so the singles market skyrockets. So they need a slow and steady drip feed of reprints or else they saturate the market and devalue their secondary value too quickly and they can't incentivize people to buy into the primary market. They are damn if they do and damned if they don't.

[@luisdavila7302]

I’m over here feeling bad I spent $10 on a card I could have waited a couple weeks for to get for $1 😭

[@shadownexusxdoac8634]

Yugioh TCG and Master Duel is too expensive. The gem packs are insanely overpriced. $89 for 40 packs!? That’s just wild.

[@djalvarez0017]

Yeah, the locals stuff is true, where I live there are 5 stotes and only 1 runs yugioh

[@isaacboyyy4271]

Making decks that will just one shot you in the beginning of the game killed the mood for me in the game

[@spicymemes7458]

Bottom line is if you really want to flex $1000 at locals, pay their rent.

[@MrSuperkamiguru]

What game are people switch to from yugioh? I’m curious what they decided is cheaper to play.

[@DiskordiaUKGR]

the game needs a new resource to limit the amount of combos/moves you can do in your turn and in your opponent's turn

[@Kno_Buddy]

Yes, if you want to play even remotely competitively it’s insanely expensive.

[@yoyong1995]

I don't think anyone who says the OCG model is end all be all has opened OCG products. Rarity distribution is nice, but you get 5 cards per pack, less packs per box, and the pull rates are slightly different. So the rate at which you get cards you need is about the same (Bonfire being relatively expensive in OCG says a lot). OCG also doesn't have big events like TCG, they basically have locals and the occasional 50 person tournament cup. So you can have your cards, but no events to play. Lastly, if cards are super cheap cause of the new model, the rule of buying singles is cheaper still applies. There's no need for me to buy 3 boxes to pull bonfire if Bonfire is 10 bucks a piece. I'm encouraged to buy less product actually for competitive. Pokemon has a similar model, meta cards are cheap so I'm not inclined to buy product, i'll just buy singles from collectors who are cracking open boxes. But once those collectors hit what they want, they'll stop.

[@leaferyvine8986]

The cards are also cheaper last I checked...

[@MattSinz]

That's all true, but when I look on Ebay the cards are still way cheaper than the TCG. S:P Little Knight for example is a tenth of what it costs in the TCG.

[@Rar-u2f]

Has anyone ever tried a boycott for the price thing? Just only use cards from structure decks as a community initiative Sure you give up on tops but everyone can play and have fun for cheap

[@adwdwdwas]

They do not have that incentive to change, as far as profits go, but with an aging player base and no show to bring in the younger gen, then ygo is in decline

[@rionsteiner4422]

Many YuGiTuber claim that people are leaving, YGO is dying but one thing I certain is after a decade YuGiOh still exist and lot of people still playing, wether it was physical or digital format.

[@OldTimerOfficial]

This is a really polarizing video, but I feel like the one argument that was handled incorrectly is when you said that there is no way to make opening loop boxes feel good just put all the cards at like a base rarity and then have the nice cards, be rare and uncommon in the setlike literally it’s the OCG model I don’t know why we’re acting like that is so absurd to implement and it would take years of rewiring and reworking when in reality, they just already have it established overseas

[@Stormhawk777]

People are literally dying out here hating on maxx c

[@spicymemes7458]

I've played the TCG long enough to know the problems don't stop at Maxx C

[@thatboydingus3353]

There needs to be a causal mode big time

[@LuciferArc1]

At least rush duels is fun

[@UTgohan]

I don’t think the clip needs to be that fast lol