Why Are There So Many Annulments? (Jason Evert)

[@Lancer-y5g]

If Henry the 8th would’ve been in any U.S. diocese post 1970, he would have had his annulment granted

[@timclark2880]

Why does every diocese in the United States require a couple seeking an annulment to get divorced first? As Jason says, the Church presumes that the marriage is valid. Weird thing for the Church to tell a couple to get divorced if they are validly married? Oh, and divorce isn't a final step, it's the FIRST step in the process. They won't start the process without a divorce decree. Frankly, that's a scandalous policy.

[@stormchaser9738]

It’s a legal thing. They used to do it the common sense way, but the Church was found to be violating laws against breaking up other people’s marriages. They got sued for a lot if I remember correctly.

[@mjvictoriano]

Very interesting... this is contradiction. Even if for legal reasons it's more suitable, I agree it is a scandalous thing. What if they find out the marriage is valid? What about the divorce? They'll be forced to re-marry before the law... I mean. If someone was really really looking for what's going on in their marriage, they wouldn't agree to divorce just so the Church can check... UNLESS they've already made a decision about what do they want...

[@joane24]

I think it's the opposite of scandalous. What would be truly scandalous, improper, and imprudent, to grant an annulment while the couple remains legally married.

[@joane24]

Also, who would seek an annulment without having been legally divorced first?? And if you're not divorced, so you're staying legally bound to that person, why would you ever seek annulment? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. That would be a huge contradiction and scandal to not be validly married in terms of a sacrament but stay legally married.

[@timclark2880]

@@joane24 "Also, who would seek an annulment without having been legally divorced first." Someone who wants to fulfill their vows and stay with their spouse if/when the Church determines that they are married?

[@AJKPenguin]

Short engagements, small weddings, long marriages.

[@sarahp3144]

Yes!!!

[@fbermeo]

You want stronger marriages? Have those engaged to be married answer and document their responses to the the battery of questions that are asked when a nullity is pursued. Those questions hit deep and don't beat atound the bush. If answered honestly they reveal ALOT.

[@athomewiththemrs9410]

Our priest did that. We had to answer 50-100 questions. Then he went over them with us/asked us questions about certain ones he had concerns of.

[@fbermeo]

@athomewiththemrs9410 that's awesome! I only did a sort of marriage enrichment event. No offense to marriage enrichment facilitators out there but it kind of ended up being more of a discussion about, "who's washing the dishes?" And "husbands, help your wife with the laundry." Again, just my experience, but it didn't get deep into family history, mental health, any history of abuse, sexual history, etc. which the nullity questions do. Some may say, "you should know that before you get married." Well those things don't always come up and one or both parties are not always ready to share all of their dark family secrets prior to marriage so it doesn't just organically happen for all.

[@mjvictoriano]

This is a terrific idea!

[@mjvictoriano]

@@fbermeoOF COURSE! I've been separated for three years now and my brother-in-law has come closer to me now, and only now I'm discovering how wounded was my husband's family. I've been advised to seek annullment, but that's just too easy. It's like saying: oh well, there's nothing good about this people, let's move on... of course: trying to have hope, and seek for some healing path, perhaps in the long future, is being extremely painful... but can we really complain?? Can we complain to God that we have to deal with wounded people?

[@fbermeo]

@@mjvictoriano you can "complain"....there are psalms of lament made just for that.🙂 Wishing you well as you continue to seek His will for your family. God bless, and praised be Jesus Christ! 🙏

[@jimisoulman6021]

Speaking personally you can want to go to counselling and try fix a broken marriage all you want but if the other party is not interested it's over. The hardest truth the Church can't rectify.

[@mjvictoriano]

Well, I wonder: what if you just deny to divorce/seek annullment? What if you say to the other part: well, do as you please, but we're married. And become a martyr in the name of marriage (I'm there, by the way, in front of a husband that's just not interested in me at all)

[@AnnaMarieLeBlanc]

@@mjvictoriano I know several people like that: they have remained alone when abandoned by the other party, or after divorce for whatever reason

[@marisabelperez2260]

Oooft honestly this is where i hope you have a good spiritual dirrctor and community that helps you discern if that martydom is Gods will or not.​@mjvictoriano

[@AlixPrappas]

@@mjvictorianoI am so sorry to hear that. May the Lord bless your faithfulness to Him and His moral law dear sister. You are living out a clear scriptural truth that next to no one will follow. Once more, may the Lord bless you in your faithfulness and reconcile you to your spouse if it is in the Lord’s will for you both. Otherwise, may He strengthen your resolve for the remainder of your life.

[@mjvictoriano]

@@AlixPrappas Thanks! Say a little prayer for my family, please!

[@theignorantcatholic]

My wife and I went to counselling every week for two years, then every fortnight for a year, then every month or so etc etc. We figured that if we can invest thousands into a single semester of Engineering, which is a fraction of our degrees, why couldn't we do at least that for our marriage, which is soooo much more important. It was an investment into how to do our marriage better.

[@theignorantcatholic]

That being said, since becoming Catholic, I truly feel that the wisdom of the church FAR exceeds the capacity of counseling to heal a marriage. If a couple would but start reading saints together, sharing saints each is reading and sharing their personal growth in the Lord with each other, their marriages would fair far better than after anything any counseling could offer... And we went to a Christ Centered Psychology practice which I deem better than nearly all other psychological practices out there.

[@trish87563]

In the aftermath are all the children of divorce and annulments who weren't advocated for by the Church just so that their parents could be remarried without sinning. Where's the care for all of us whose parents' divorces have caused deep, lasting wounds?

[@daniellemoss7746]

@@trish87563 I’m so sorry for your pain…it’s devastating. Our young adult children feel as you do. All children have a RIGHT to an intact family. It’s the parents responsibility to sacrifice for the well-being of their children and family. When a family is fractured the children end up carrying the cross that was meant for their parents to carry.

[@trish87563]

@@daniellemoss7746 Yep. My father got remarried, and yet I was so emotionally beaten up and wounded that I'm 44 and only realized a few years ago how my family's shenanigans hurt me and started therapy. I'm healing from that, but it's too late to have my own family, unless I finally find someone and can adopt. I wish someone had stood up for us kids and not just for my parents.

[@mjvictoriano]

@@trish87563 Thanks for sharing your experiences. I have separated because my husband has a truly distubing psychic pathology. But I'm still fighting for his recovery. Right now everything is just worse. He's in denial about his own psychological wounds, he refuses theraphy, he distanced himself from me and the children for a whole year and now he's just sued me on the false claim that I'm preventing him from seeing his kids. He's acting on a sick evil basis. However, I'm already being advised to seek an annullment but I wonder... what's the point? I'm "free", he's "free". I get that my kids weren't conceived inside a marriage then. My kids... what? Will it be easier to find a new man and get my kids "a new daddy"? At least, I wonder... if I tell them, when they're older (they're less than 7 now), that I'm still waiting for his daddy to make some sense... even if he never does, I wonder if it's helpful for them to have a mother that still says that she loves daddy, and it's waiting for him, praying for him...

[@sam12587]

@trish87563 I always thought there should be a support group. My parents divorced but never annulled. My personal take on it is they were too focused on them selves to step up to parenting and that’s not my fault. I look at the psychology of my child self and I perfectly reflected that which they molded me to be. 5 adults in my hometown changed that mold and I am grateful they taught me what they did. Thing is it seems there’s just not many adults left like that, that realize a kid needs a void filled or it’ll be a chasm of sadness.

[@AlixPrappas]

How about we listen to our Lord’s words. “…because of the hardness of your hearts.”

[@sarahp3144]

100% agree

[@alepine1986]

In my diocese, annulments are granted almost automatically. It's not that it's 'abused,' it's literally just become a formality. This is why Orthodox criticisms of RC are convincing to so many: the EO permit divorce on the basis of our fallen nature, but the Catholic Church claims that marriage is for life but simultaneously allows annulments in almost every situation through a kind of legal loophole.

[@josephmoya5098]

How do you know that is true. Do you sit on the tribunal? Are you aware of the cases, or are you guessing?

[@alepine1986]

@josephmoya5098 It's common knowledge. I won't get into how I know, but it's an open secret.

[@josephmoya5098]

@@alepine1986 Please do get into how you know.

[@daniellemoss7746]

@@josephmoya5098 I think it’s evident if you just look to see how many remarriages are occurring within the Catholic Church you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. There can’t be that many invalid marriages lol

[@daniellemoss7746]

@@alepine1986 true…so very sad

[@MrMustang13]

What I don’t understand is how kids born in an annulled marriage aren’t illegitimate if the marriage never was in the first place. That doesn’t make sense to me.

[@daniellemoss7746]

Exactly…on one hand they are saying there was no marriage yet on the other hand the children are legitimate. Can’t play both sides of the fence.

[@michelevenuti7963]

@@MrMustang13 totally agree!

[@josephmoya5098]

@@daniellemoss7746 If one party is at fault, then the child can be legitimate in the eyes of the church. However, if both persons entered marriage without intending, or being free, to actually marry as the church views marriage, then those children would be illegitimate, at least in the sense of being born out of technical church wedlock. But as for an ability for the child to be baptized, christened, and communed, the church will err on the side of providing sacraments to those children, for what should be obvious reasons.

[@daniellemoss7746]

@ I would venture to say that the majority of people who enter marriage, enter the marriage with the intent of fulfilling all of the marriage requirements and their vows. Inevitably at some point, we all fall short, and that is when the marriage begins tobreakdown. It does not mean that in the beginning on the wedding day, the intentions were not valid and true. I don’t think many people go into a marriage planning on getting divorced or with the intent of being unfaithful.

[@josephmoya5098]

@@daniellemoss7746 It definitely does happen. I know a guy who spent the last three years in annulment court because his wife had been cheating on him since before they were married, and then she left him for this guy, and there is evidence that she actually never meant to carry out a Catholic version of marriage at all. So this poor guy was stuck with no wife through no fault of his own, all because his not wife never intended to contract marriage. His annullment is being approved.

[@middleb33st]

One major problem is that annulment tribunals won't hear cases until the couple already has a civil divorce. That undoubtedly skews the tribunals to presume the marriage was invalid, because who wants to inconvenience already-divorced couples? Jason is being obtuse if he thinks tribunals presume the validity of marriage when so many annulments get rubber-stamped.

[@daniellemoss7746]

@@middleb33st 💯

[@josephmoya5098]

@@daniellemoss7746 How do you know that so many annulments get rubber stamped? Do you sit on the tribunal, do you have first hand knowledge of the cases? Or are you assuming this is so?

[@daniellemoss7746]

@ first of all, I’m not the one that made that statement. I just agreed with it lol. I have listened to many Catholic podcasts regarding this topic, including the Fatima center, who stated the same thing… which they said, leads to many people living in adultery because their marriage was actually valid and they were granted an annulment.

[@fbermeo]

@@middleb33st I had a nullity of marriage granted earlier this year. There was a large amount of work and rigor required. No rubber stamps, much follow up, I was challenged on a number of things and the diocese was not moving forward until it spoke with all involved. God willing you never need to pursue one, but if you do, you'll realize the reality real quick. Now are all dioceses running things Exactly the same? Well...I don't know. Just sharing my lived experience.

[@josephmoya5098]

@@daniellemoss7746 sorry, I definitely meant to reply to the first guy. But I will say, podcasts are not evidence. It is very easy to assume the church is wrong from the outside. Without actual personal knowledge of the cases, it is impossible to say if these cases are being treated fairly or not. It is possible that annulments are being rubber stamped, as another commentor stated, but we need proof of that, actual instances of annulments being granted without any serious inquiry. I know of four annulment cases personally, three granted, one as far as I know, rejected. The three which were granted were, in my opinion, clear cut cases, each of which took years to be approved, lots of paperwork, interviews, proceedings, document finding, ect. The one which has not been granted has been going for years, and is likely to not be granted. I personally see no evidence that marriages are being annulled whilly nilly.

[@jameskroeger1436]

There are lots of marriages where people have no idea what they’re getting into. Do annulments not invalidate those too? Even some of the successful ones?

[@bobthebuildest6828]

"People spend more time getting ready for the wedding than they do for their marriage" 2:22 dang what a quote

[@trish87563]

I know a priest who's said that he really wishes marriages happened at Sunday Mass, A) to prevent the over-the-top ceremonies and B) to remind the couple that their wedding is a public event and their marriage is for the good of the Church and not just for themselves. Interesting idea.

[@bobthebuildest6828]

@ i get his intent with that but sunday mass is NOT appropriate for a wedding mass, this is more an issue of priests letting people do whatever they want and the culture treating weddings and funerals as though they are private

[@trish87563]

@@sitka49 It wouldn't have to be 2 hours. The actual wedding parts of the wedding mass are maybe 10 minutes.

[@trish87563]

@ Again, the point would be that it’s not all about the couple, so things wouldn’t need to be over the top. Also, my father did wedding for many years, and never did a wedding mass go that long. Two hours would be the exception.

[@chateaumojo]

People spend way more on a wedding than they should, but even more on a divorce.

[@jotcham1688]

From my priest: The annulment process begins with a meeting with a priest. He can then guide a person through the process. Depending on the circumstances with the marriage, it can take anywhere from a month to well over a year. An annulment is only given when there is some grounds for the marriage to be invalid. Lastly, a couple must already be civilly divorced to begin the process.

[@kristenbartosz2236]

Is the churches presumption of validity enough to make it valid? Like if you know your marriage could be declared null, but you continue going forward with the marriage, is it then not null?

[@leannhendrix231]

Is Sacramental Grace given/received in a marriage that eventually is declared null? Also, what other Sacraments of the Catholic church can be declared non-existent or null?

[@chateaumojo]

Holy orders?

[@AnnulmentProof]

Every putative Sacramental marriage receives grace even if there's an annulment later. 99.99% of Canon 1095 annulments are fake.

[@billbill4392]

Jason Evert’s chastity talks really changed my life

[@newyorkdreamerneedleworks]

Hi, I knew someone that got an annulment because they knew the priest and the priest knew people in the church. They got an annulment to be able to married in church for the sake of their family. Is the annulment valid in the eyes of God? Thank you!

[@AnnulmentProof]

If canon 1095.2 or .3 And they had kids, no, The annulment is error.

[@betyg4606]

The talk about how things have gotten so bad I the culture that people don't know what they're getting into is ridiculous. You cannot talk about marriage being a sacrifice, and at the same time claim that a person may realize their incapacity to love later on in the marriage. My mother discovered that my father was an alcoholic on their wedding night, she proceeded to suffer for most of their marriage in an effort to save his soul. She succeeded despite temptations to annul their marriage many times. The last twenty years of their marriage were the fruit of all of her sacrifice, and that was the beautiful example that she gave my siblings and I.

[@mjvictoriano]

Thanks for sharing this! I've been married seven years, been separated the last three years. My husband has taken me to court under false claims. Yet, painful as it is... I'm sure he can do better. If I seek annullment now (as I've been adviced) then the tragedy is consummated. I wonder: if you have a deep wound that makes you (right now) incapable to truly commit to love... shouldn't we try to make people fight for their soul???? If you label someone: he can't love, he's psychologically ill... then what? That person is damned? Shouldn't we Christians bet on the fact that we can heal and learn to truly love?? Oh well, pray for me. I'm constantly at the edge of the knife. I'm trying to win chances for my husband and trying to protect me from his attacks at the same time...

[@nicholasnye4036]

​@@mjvictorianoThank you for your witness to the sacrament of Marriage!!! I cannot imagine the pain you are in, I will pray for you, your husband, and your marriage Run the race, keep the faith!

[@mjvictoriano]

@@nicholasnye4036 Oh thanks! Yes, please, please, pray!

[@mikesarno7973]

How are we expected to navigate all of this? I gave my fortune, my career, my health, and the best years of my life trying to play by rules that society had stated is for suckers and has structured everything against such people. How do we move forward?

[@Enter-a-name-7789]

@@mikesarno7973 I’m sorry to hear that. I’ll be praying for you. I hope things get better.

[@mjvictoriano]

What happened to you? My husband is trying to prosecute me on false claims and I'm being advised to seek an annullment... but I'm refusing. That would only mean he's free to go and all of our life together was nonsense. And what about our children? I'm seeking for meaning, and I'm sure there's meaning. I think my husband can do better but he's giving up himself to his anger and resentment now... probably because of a childhood wound. But well, it's terribly painful to be in this situation. I'm trying to seek God's guidance, see what does He want from me first.

[@mikesarno7973]

@@mjvictoriano I've given as much detail as I care to give in a public forum. My comment is really directed at the comments that are telling me to ignore or question the magisterium. It's just so disheartening to come to the comments and see this.

[@daniellemoss7746]

Our Catholic church just preached about Mark 10 several weeks ago. And it was made clear that infidelity does not justify getting an annulment. Jesus said people are allowed to separate for severe abuse, but infidelity is not an exception for an annulment. MANY marriages go through extreme trials and suffering that does not mean one should get an annulment. Additionally, many Catholics, if not most Catholics, who got married very young can’t completely comprehend what marriage entails and what is coming down the pike in their marriage. This sounds like you’re leaving many doors open to exit a marriage

[@theresa.m.]

No one should have to stay in a marriage with an unfaithful spouse. Ever.

[@daniellemoss7746]

@ well tell that to Jesus. As several Saints did exactly that.

[@jmh8510]

@@daniellemoss7746I realize we have some Saints to look back on…however any kind of systemic abuse /neglect/infidelity has already broken the vows. Also to continue to remain “together” seems to be winking at the sin. As if the only vow involved is legally staying together. What about what was promised IN the vows? For ex for a 50 yr marriage where this occurred and continues to occur? What about Matthew 18? (If anyone sins against you, you go to your brother…etc). Where one is actively, knowingly sinning against the spouse? Without bashing my questions…can someone help me understand here?

[@daniellemoss7746]

@ according to Jesus the only thing that “breaks” or ends a marriage vow is death. Systemic abuse as you’ve mentioned allows for separation with the intent of being reconciled. Jesus said be reconciled OR remain single. We are to pray for our lost spouse. That does not equate to “winking at sin.” We can’t cherry pick Bible verses and insert in another verse to change the whole context. Jesus didn’t mince words on the subject of marriage and divorce. He made it clear even when his disciples questioned Him on it. I’m so grateful to our pastor in our Catholic Church who didn’t let fear stop him from speaking the hard and difficult truth.

[@Enter-a-name-7789]

@@daniellemoss7746Then how come St. Joseph was about to divorce Mary when he found out she was about to have a kid that wasn’t his? An angel had to be sent to convince St. Joseph not to divorce Mary, even quietly. Unfaithfulness can be a dangerous situation, for adults and the kids. It can lead to (but not always): STDs Murder Homicide Kids - from the affair. Misuse /abuse of financial resources.

[@lesliejamieson6781]

Two annulment’s just happened because my husband and I just converted to Catholicism after being married for 28 years as Protestants. We were both married to other people. The Catholic Church requires that converters must have annulments. Don’t forget about converts!

[@AnnulmentProof]

On what basis was your first "I do" invalid?

[@michelevenuti7963]

Love this especially in today's world. Sorry I don't believe in annulments, my fil annulled his marriage from my mil n he was the one cheating n wanted out. N the church told my mil that for $$ she could protest it but 1 she said she loved my fil n said she would never marry again n 2 it was over 25;years of marriage 4 kids...how can you annul it? He turned around n remarried in the church n I feel it was very hurtful for not only my mil but for my husband n his siblings.

[@daniellemoss7746]

@@michelevenuti7963 I agree with you 💯percent. I’m so sorry for your mil and husband. Divorce is devastating even to adult children. Sometimes even more so 🙏

[@martinmartin1363]

A valid marriage cannot be dissolved not even by the pope because if Jesus is the groom and the church the bride can there be a divorce and the answer is no because God doesn’t lie or change A valid couple married under the eye of God is not dissolvable they may live apart until one dies and they can remarry Abraham and Sara separated after Abraham went to sacrifice their son Isaac to God they didn’t divorce one another they lived separate lives and yet Abraham still looked after his wife Sara

[@AnnulmentProof]

Correct. Annulment is not in the Bible. Separation with the bond remaining is.

[@chateaumojo]

Why is there so much domestic violence? Why do many people conceal their true natures until after they are wed? Why are there so many dangerously mentally ill people and addicts? If you can't work things through, should you stay married and raise children under the circumstances in question? Would you want your child to stay in a dangerous situation because they'd promised you they would?

[@Oliveoil91661]

No. You get divorced and you live celibate. End of story.

[@AJKPenguin]

Separation, not divorce.

[@Oliveoil91661]

​​@@AJKPenguin That could be the case in YOUR state. HOWEVER, if you are in a state where you must divorce in order to get separate banking accounts, then you have to get divorced and the Church is not to accuse you of mortal sin.

[@RootBound505]

@@Oliveoil91661and who takes care of the widows and orphans of divorce while the abuser runs free?

[@chateaumojo]

@@Oliveoil91661 I guess you had to be there. I was so tired of crying. You don't have to live celibate unless you can't get an annulment and cannot get (re)married in the Church. Marry a Catholic to reduce your chances of have to endure all that. There are reasons the Church has these structures in place. We should not substitute our judgment for the Church's. You can separate, but that turns out to have a lot of big problems, like you are liable for their tax debt, credit, etc. forever. He can take your kids anywhere. It can really blow up.

[@kmrm1226]

Because we need talk about marriage and dating and family life and the Church's teachings constantly. Couples should be meeting with their parish priest way before Pre Cana.😮

[@abyz1467]

Man priests have enough to do. They don’t have time to counsel every couple dating in their parish.

[@KeiPyn24]

With 80% of divorces I initiated by women, I think women need to seriously come to the table with something else better. As a victim of an invalid marriage canceled by divorce to a woman who says we have "irreconcilable differences ". I became Catholic through marriage. She became not Catholic through the same marriage. Marriage is a joke now. Ruined by womanists.

[@AnnulmentProof]

Make divorce bilateral again.

[@sahn105]

If it is found that no marriage ever existed, what % decide to remedy that by getting married?

[@AnnulmentProof]

Almost none because that wouldn't be very "healing" now would it? The kids are resilient..

[@domineprimatus]

Just to say it though, annulments getting increased is because of really bad discernment on the part of the Bishops. Most repeals that are submitted to the Roman Rota get approved, thus the Rota overrides the annulment by the Bishop... Marriage is not as complicated as this video makes it out to be. Monks and priests take vows, just because they struggle later with that vocation doesn't mean they can just turn around... Fact of the matter is, the modern annulment situation is Catholic "divorce" and its really bad. Most of these were valid marriages and the Roman Rota attests to this.

[@joane24]

Monks and priests take years of discernment and formation before commiting or being ordained. And there are cases when they leave, eg monks/brothers being dispensed from the vows, but it's rare. I don't know about male orders, but in women's contemplative orders the discernment process can take even 10 years before final vows.

[@domineprimatus]

@joane24 And the church has ordained no such limits on the discernment of marriage. Doesn't mean that annulments are valid most of the time... Go back 159 years when the world was actually a dangerous place to raise kids and money was hard to come by and the divorce rate was down several hundred %. Annulments are highest in the wealthiest countries... If it wasn't Catholic "divorce" it would be uniform across cultures and wealth divides. Fact is, modern annulments are due in large part to people who don't consider it a sacrament and just follow the modernist anto family culture

[@scopilio13]

seminary takes between 6-8 years.​@@joane24

[@dukeluke40ful]

I really wish this guy answered the question.

[@daniellemoss7746]

Also, the majority of the population goes into marriage with wounds and trauma, so I’m guessing most marriages are considered invalid if you’re going to base it on that. And yes, Jesus did say unless the marriage is unlawful and as you mentioned it was based on marriages of incest and of that nature, how is one supposed to actually truly know whether somebody married whoever they wanted or it was ordained by God? God does not have one specific person out there for each of us.

[@AnnulmentProof]

Wounds/trauma have zero effect on validity bcz one need capacity only to "make babies," nothing more. It's those annulments that are "invalid."

[@michelevenuti7963]

How can you question if God has joined them if they were married in the church?

[@foodforthought8308]

What if they were married outside the Catholic church? Wouldn't God have joined them and honored their vow in good faith? He's not bound by objective Sacramental validity

[@user-mv2tg8hc8c]

Our Church is in a serious crisis in many ways! It’s a sign of the times. Most people don’t know nor practice their faith so it makes sense that a lot of people aren’t ready to live out a marriage.

[@user-pf3ei6gw1f]

True, most don't live out their faith. That's why there are so many devout Catholic singles having great difficulty finding a spouse, despite our trying and living out a Christian life, fulfilling our duties...

[@KM-ec2qv]

A lot of these comments make me really sad (doubting the tribunals’ good faith in finding marriages invalid). Of course our societal breakdown is making us worse at satisfying the Church’s / God’s requirements for the sacrament. I received a declaration of nullity after a brief, scary physically and emotionally abusive “marriage” where I found out my ex had lied about key items to make the marriage happen. I agree with Jason’s friend’s experience - the process was rigorous and ultimately healing, and I think my ex may have certain restrictions based on his “file” before he’s allowed to remarry (e.g., counseling).

[@fantasia55]

A wife can divorce her husband at any time, and take his house money children. If he objects, he goes to prison. Jesus would not have recognized this legal arrangement to be marriage.

[@minasoliman]

I don’t think the question was addressed on the abuse of the annulments. Also, there’s no such thing as sacramental existence of sin, but sin occurs. So it’s inane to even say sin exists sacramentally. No, it’s more accurate to say sin occurs and sacraments are the means of healing of that sin. And so divorce occurs absolutely. To say divorce can never occur is like saying man can never sin. So this is just dancing around reality. Sure, annulment done properly is good, but sin still exists. And sometimes annulment is not of both parties but of one party. One person lied, therefore he is divorced and she is annulled. Such needs to be recognized. I don’t think this video addresses this well. We all know the purpose of annulment, but you didn’t answer the concern.

[@christyv4125]

If a marriage of 20+years and 3 children is annulled, does that make the children illegitimate?

[@katej910]

This is a lot of cope for what everyone knows. Annulment = Catholic divorce.

[@AnnulmentProof]

There are other videos with significantly more copious amounts of cope.

[@KenSiefert]

There are so many annulments because people are inherently dishonest…and the only way to unwind a lie is annulment. Anything that begins in a lie will end in tears.

[@MrMustang13]

Well what’s “going into with a lie” is the question because there’s zero people who are 100% honest with each other I can promise you that.

[@KenSiefert]

@@MrMustang13 I humbly disagree

[@MrMustang13]

@@KenSiefert no I’m asking, because that is true there’s no one who’s 100% honestly with anyone. Even themselves. Just part of being human, so for example does one who lies about watching porn to his gf prior to marriage invalidate that marriage? Or is it a lie such as someone having a secret family somewhere?

[@daniellemoss7746]

@@MrMustang13 curious to see his response because with the statistics of porn addiction, this would invalidate over 90% of marriages lol

[@KenSiefert]

@@daniellemoss7746 Only when you make every decision from your groin…not very intelligent

[@gemmac565]

Read Leila Millers book “Primal Loss” you will change your mind about divorce and annulments being the answer to all marriage problems.

[@AnnulmentProof]

I think Leila Miller agrees w/ the error that "annulment is in the Bible," therefore "divorce" is okay if you suspect invalidity. Are you able to get in touch with her?

[@gemmac565]

I cannot speak for her, no I do not know how to contact her, I am just a normal person who liked her book, it highlights the suffering divorce causes to children of divorce. People should look at the consequences of divorce, it may help them avoid it. Is annulment ever an action causing a marriage contract to become void? no, to my understanding it is determination that no marriage took place. Somewhere around or after Vatican II they changed the criteria for an annulment determination. Making every marriage easily annulled. Matt fradd thinks we have to determine many more marriages annulled because we don’t respect marriage. I disagree, I want to help more people stay married and convert. Divorce is a big empty calorie cookie many people take the bait too often. My advice for struggling wives: don’t go to marriage counselors, if you are having marriage problems use relationship coaches like Laura Doyle she has practical advice to fix a broken relationship, it works

[@AnnulmentProof]

@gemmac565 I liked everything you said except the Laura Doyle part.

[@ret4kind]

Well if I married a Catholic man that dragged me to Florida because he couldn't just let me eat vegetables instead of meat all the time I'd want to divorce him too.

[@jwm6314]

The only valid annulment is one of a marriage that was never consummated or entered against the will of one party. The rest is just beating around the bush. Bad marriages are still valid marriages and CANNOT BE UNDONE BY MAN. This is an aggravating point that The Church has chosen to once again aquiesce to the pressures of the world and not follow God's command. It's no different than blessing sodomite relationships and not calling it a wedding.

[@RootBound505]

Go read your Catechism

[@chateaumojo]

Let's all remember we are fallible. Bad marriages are not just dissatisfying or inconvenient. They are not merely lacking in some spark or under stress from tough times. If I put a list here of all I went through, you would change your mind. Don't have that kind of time, anyway. Jesus loves his children.

[@huntsman528]

It's hard not to see this as the rich and powerful's excuse to do what they want.

[@AnnulmentProof]

The broke and powerless can do the same, why not?

[@huntsman528]

@AnnulmentProof because they generally and historically have more access. It feels very political.

[@AnnulmentProof]

@huntsman528 the tribunal is eager to annul anything that breathes. Rich/poor no matter.

[@Oliveoil91661]

I think the consensus is that you guys need to take a humility pill and come back in a month.

[@aireen2723]

❤ “Your freedom is best measured by your capacity to love.” ~Jason Evert

[@AnnulmentProof]

Great, but marriage validity requires zero love.

[@aireen2723]

Are you saying marriage doesn’t require the intention to love one another til death?

[@aireen2723]

I’m talking about on the day of the nuptial vows. If you don’t plan to love your spouse til death, that is not a valid sacramental marriage.

[@AnnulmentProof]

@aireen2723 correct. Love may be in the vows, but not in the contract.

[@AnnulmentProof]

@aireen2723 incorrect, bcz one only needs capacity/discretion for making babies. Marriage is natural // charity is supernatural.

[@saraanic9436]

"Did God join this couple or did they join themselves?" What? That's like asking "Did God baptize this person or did a priest baptize them?" Dude...

[@foodforthought8308]

I know, I feel the same way...

[@zahzahzee]

Why is this surprising to anyone? A great many people getting married in the Catholic church do so only mostly to please their parents. You really think those getting married with non-forever intentions are getting married forever? Please.

[@AnnulmentProof]

Unless there's proof that they did not intend "till death," it's valid.

[@zahzahzee]

@@AnnulmentProof If the Church declares it invalid, then it is invalid. You may err (and you do); Holy Mother Church never does.

[@AnnulmentProof]

@zahzahzee All annulment is authoritative. No annulment is infallible. The ones based on the spirit of Vatican 2 definition of consent are error.

[@zahzahzee]

@@AnnulmentProof Ah. You reject Vatican 2. I reject your error.

[@AnnulmentProof]

@zahzahzee I don't reject Vatican 2. I do know that the legal essence of marriage is the same today as it was 100 years ago, is it not

[@purduepiper2919]

Over 95% of decrees of nullity in the United States are rejected by Rome. Don’t we take marriage for “better or worse”? How do you define “full giving of self”. This is not in Canon Law. And we are all sinners. No one is going to be perfect. What does it mean to have the “capacity” of fulfilling marriage? Look to expectations and feelings as to the cause of civil divorce and it being abused by Catholics.

[@Lancer-y5g]

They were before Francis kicked out Burke and put in his own minions. Now they are upholding.

[@purduepiper2919]

@ please provide source. That is not what I have been informed.

[@phwbooth]

The Western Church has always allowed divorce - the Pauline and Petrine privileges.

[@Oliveoil91661]

You don't get it

[@yankiuhui2550]

Part of the problem is that we the church has failed to teach men how to be charming. We talk so much about spiritual life, daily rosary, church history, but we fail to teach fashion, hobbies, conversational skills, "Rizz". Yes spiritual life and christ is the foundation, but we need romance and charm to keep it going. We need romance to be "Pro-life".But all we have on Catholic platforms are just pray and God will guide the way. And indeed, this would have been the father's job to teach their sons, but this is the fatherless generation. Most of the annulment that ive seen, the husbands are faithful men, daily rosary and mass, but they are "boring." The "wife" lost interest and tempt to go away, Gen 1 reference

[@JoeyG-o8r]

I'm a revert so unfortunately I've been with women other than my wife, but never once did I ever "charm" or "rizz" my way into a woman's bedroom. Men today over complicate it: How to attract a woman: - be in shape, dress your age. - have some goal in your life that isn't "I want to find a woman". Women want a man aiming up. - If you find a woman you like talk to her as if you were talking to a man, while also making it clear that you are attracted to her. Your job isn't to impress or charm her, your job is to get to know her. Once you get to know her, if you still like her, make it clear you are attracted to her and ask her out when appropriate. -after marriage, don't stop doing the above

[@michaelk969]

God help us if that is the primary issue that men are not charming nowadays. What a self-centered and silly reason to get divorced.

[@LRVitusR]

@@JoeyG-o8rvery well said on how to attract a woman. To the letter, that has been my experience as well. However, I think you simply gave a proper definition to “charm.” I don’t know about rizz.

[@Adam-fj9px]

You're not wrong, I think many Catholics get naive by thinking just praying can solve literally anything without putting in any effort

[@knuerr]

Arranged marriages are successful. Your statements are what I consider enabling. Same excuse for abortions. Jesus only considers infidelity as a reason for divorce. Unimpressed, prayer changes relationships.

[@jjaugust5]

Oh my goodness. You guys are ridiculous and do not believe in the indissolubility of marriage.

[@AnnulmentProof]

You can call NFP natural, or you can call marriage indisolubile, but you can't have both.

[@melissawilcox5285]

My ex husband and I were married in the Catholic Church. We raised our three boys in the Catholic Church. We had a life altering experience which unfortunately led to us divorcing. I wanted to remarry, however, in order to get an annulment I had to state that either he lied in our nuptials or I did. I refused to do so. I will not act like my 20 year marriage meant nothing. I did remarry and now feel so unwelcome in the Catholic Church. I consider myself Christian and still enjoy the Catholic Channel, (I’ve been a Catholic my entire life), but I haven’t been back to the Church, and definitely do not care for this current Pope.

[@Gladdig]

@@melissawilcox5285 Okay, so you're committing adultery.

[@douglasmotta5971]

"..Pope Francis said..." And then I stopped watching.

[@EC-rd9ys]

This is a Catholic channel, not a protestant one.

[@zahzahzee]

Shame on you.

[@abyz1467]

🙄