Why Are Western "Adult" Cartoons So Childish? - A History

A big thank you to ‪@fxllxngofficial‬ for helping with audio editing and for supplying most of the background music!
End song "Sailing On A Wave" composed by the lovely ‪@SurelyDraws‬
TIMESTAMPS:
Intro - 0:00
The Hays Code - 2:12
MTV & The Rise Of Streaming - 9:58
What Have They Become - 16:31
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Resources:
The Hays Code: www.acmi.net.au/stories-and-i...
The Weird History of Adult Animation: • The Weird History of A...
Adult Swim - The History of a Television Empire: • Adult Swim - The Histo...
Reused disney clips: • Reused animation in Ro...
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Software:
Clip Studio Paint EX (illustration)
OBS (speedpaint recording)
Audacity (Audio)
Adobe After Effects (Editing)
Adobe Media Encoder (Rendering)
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My Links:
Twitter: ItsFionapollo?t=j...
Tiktok: / fionapollo
Instagram: / fionapollo.yt

[@Fionapollo]

The animation in this video was uploaded as a short! Pls throw it a like: kzbin.infoo7RDXLppxvs?feature=share

[@Good_Boy_3000]

It's ironic considering Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated, a children show over a decade old, is more adult than a self-proclaimed adult show like Velma. That show put the gang in mortal danger on a near constant basis. It killed off major characters that the audience actually cared about. It also portrayed teenage life more accurately than Velma. Also, Mystery Inc. Velma is better in every way compared to the other Velma. Yes, she has a bit of an attitude, but she isn't a flagrant asshole like Velma's Velma. If you haven't watched the show, you really should. There is a reason it's the highest rated Scooby-Doo series on IMDb.

[@thetechnocrat4979]

​@@Good_Boy_3000 Even though I do not like the gang's portrayal and personalities in Mystery Incorporated, I agree with you that it was far more mature than what most ' adult ' cartoons can even hope to be like.

[@jeusmarcomascarina4102]

still there is primal

[@idoitbox986]

heres some good western media bojack horseman

[@savosavic1222]

arghhhhhh u forgot about best animated series my be of all time game adapted show Arcane u should watch it believe me main theme is duality so be prepared for character tragedy

[@sebastianherrera6514]

The irony of adult animation being more childish than most kids shows never ceases to amaze me.

[@sebastianherrera6514]

@@ncpolley aight, thanks 👍 english is not my first language so i welcome any corrections

[@yiwoon_cr8s]

People who failed to see the point of adult animation are to blame for this

[@ncpolley]

@@sebastianherrera6514 literally no prob. I'll delete my comment for you.

[@sebastianherrera6514]

@@ncpolley ✌️

[@brushwagg7735]

I feel like the best ones have it both ways. Simpsons, Futurama Venture Brothers are all shows that I come back to pretty often.

[@NoiseDay]

Alternative to the "adult cartoons are made for edgy teens" argument, maybe a lot more adults have really immature taste than we think.

[@Fionapollo]

That can of course be true as well. I imagine many see it as a reprieve from keeping up appearances & trying to seem sensible all day maybe

[@yiwoon_cr8s]

South Park does this correctly because it did it perfectly because it was more self awareness when compared to the nihilistic bullshit that Velma does

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

Don't pile the responsibility on certain types of humor on "children". It's YOUR fault for there being generational slide into being "more childish", because you act like crude humor is aspirational TO CHILDREN.... and then they grow up crude, because they haven't been raised to maturity but to infantility. And being precocious as the alternative, is not adult either, it jsut makes you a smug liberal archetype who thinks they're better than everyone else. What you fail to understand about "maturity" is that Futurama and Family Guy ARE cut from the same cloth, Futurama writers are jsut better EDUCATED. aNd that's exactly WHY they like to bring crudeness INTO their level of education, and same applies to Seth McFarlane. It's just the raw result of DOING better work. Not that acounting for taste makes Family Guy worse work, unless you're a smug liberal anda couch potato who want's to FEEL educated by watching Futurama rather than FAmily Guy, ON THE TV. That is an ADULT failing. ANd only as an adult you're bringing such shame to yourself by underachieving so hard, even up to old age.

[@jasonrhome710]

Sorta along the same lines of how most mainstream, mature-rated comic books focus on graphic violence, uncensored swearing, SA, and fan service sexualization as opposed to genuinely exploring mature themes (see also video games). That "it's for kids, kids don't need/appreciate complexity" stigma is a right SOB to shake off.

[@Ash-wf6me]

honestly yeah kids have much more of a need for something genuine and impactful unlike adults who are coming home tired af from work and probably just want something mind numbingly dumb to laugh at and probably not want to think so hard

[@jacobh9241]

"People still think of animation as a genre instead of a medium" is a perfect encapsulation of the thesis

[@angel_of_rust]

why not both

[@jacobh9241]

@@angel_of_rust Fair. I would probably use different terms, just to maintain the distinction (like "animation" for the medium, and "cartoon" for the genre). But I don't think we should lose sight of the genre just because people don't recognize the greater scope of the medium.

[@axe-tq2wn]

@@angel_of_rust Live-action is not a genre, animation isn’t either. The way you tell the story isn’t a genre. It’s like saying that novels and comics are genres.

[@funfromabove9728]

It blows my mind that Bluey has more mature themes than animated shows meant for adults.

[@santiagocomics9091]

And better animation. Of course is not the best but looks so good compared to the adult cartoons.

[@AmstradExin]

Same goes for Arthur. It was a more mature show than the Simpsons or South Park.

[@Eric-gw1uo]

@@santiagocomics9091 fr fr, Bojack horseman is a masterpiece but it's hard to ignore how ugly it is

[@AmstradExin]

@@Eric-gw1uo The way it was animated made me stop watching the show....

[@matthewkuscienko4616]

Going back to the original comment on how a kids show like Bluey is more mature than the "adult" shows we see today, I think there's actually a good reason for this: I recall seeing videos on KZbin talking about children's TV programs stating that it's important for them to be able to have these themes in them so that the kids watching them can learn about this more mature subject matter. Having said that, while it is ironic that the opposite also seems to hold true for adult animation, I think that part of the appeal for some viewers might be as a way to have some sort of escapism, as well as reminding them of simpler times, regardless what the rest of us might think about it on the whole

[@FrankenTuz]

“Why don’t you care about animation?!” Adult cartoon writer: “BECAUSE ANIMATION KILLED MY GRANDMA, OK!?”

[@itspienoon7883]

"My uncle broke his neck watching Family Guy once"

[@redpanda6497]

This comment reminds me of the main character from Who framed Roger rabbit. lol

[@e_is_for_existential_crisis]

My brother had a heart attack watching furtureama

[@Kureemy]

“What show was your grandma watching?”

[@NekoLikeDaArt]

''I was the one watching''

[@vividdaydream1516]

Being "mature" does _not_ automatically mean "inappropriate for children," which is where a lot of writers (not just in animation, but across the entire media landscape) miss the mark. It's telling how stories that _maturely_ handle serious topics are more often found in family-friendly animation than so-called "adult animation."

[@chadharger9323]

IMO, writers think humor cannot be mature so they put in juvenile/toilet humor.

[@artposting1012]

That should depend on the one writing the story. That's like treating them as not targeting the appropriate demographic. Unless, if they wanna make it look like a sitcom. Just because its not appropriate does not only mean it will have scenes not suitable for children, it can also mean that the topics discussed in the story is mostly not understood by everyone below 18+ like politics, jobs, finance, relationships of a couple/friends/relatives, how people see themselves in others etc.

[@ElNeroDiablo]

Example of a "kids show" that doesn't talk down to the audience and mixes being emotionally and metaphorically mature and comedy without resorting to "edgy comedy" or "toilet humor" as primary source of comedy - Power Rangers: RPM (2009) The season is set in a post-apoc setting where Skynet has nearly wiped out the Earth, but even with the inter-personal and intra-personal dramas the Rangers face (Black having amnesia and being the Lone Wolf of the team, Green being a jokester to stave off the depression of the situation, Red being the son of a military head, Yellow dealing with others of a different social strata, Blue being the Everyman, Gold & Silver being goofball Neurodivergent twins that worked with the Mentor prior to Skynet's takeover, Black's sister being one of the villains), the show managed to strike a solid balance between the zany goofy elements the franchise is stereotyped for (such as Green commenting on the giant fireballs behind the Rangers when the morph, during footage review, and him being waved off as if HE is the crazy one for noticing it) and the drama that comes with defending the last bastion of Humanity whilst striking back at the AI overlord that destroyed the world. Another example from Power Rangers would be Dino Fury (2021/2022), which dealt with teenage romance (Green being in last year of high school, everyone else is college-age or older), LGBTQ representation (Green is a girl with a girlfriend), alien refugees from a doomed planet (that eventually gets blown up due to acts of a villain), and lead villains that are also alien refugees that went off the rails after they seemed to lose their child some 20-ish years prior to the show. All the drama and action being mixed with some light-hearted fluff whilst showing a healthy LGBTQ relationship during Green's downtime

[@wordlesslfiddling]

You know there's a couple really amazing "kids shows" out there maybe you've heard of them star wars the clone wars and star wars the bad batch Those two shows are infinitly more mature than family guy could ever hope to be yet they don't feel the need to be racist and say fuck every other word

[@DoriansPortrait]

but even then, does kid friendly actually help the kids? I remember the show that I watched showing serious topics and it did nothing to me. Land before time, when I was a child I understood that the parents where killed by the T'rex. I as an adult now am not worse for ware having been exposed to this concept. Look at a show like Adventure time, that show literally makes your kid worse off due to its stupidity!

[@roycephelps7444]

I also blame the "idiot father" trope that runs rampant in adult cartoons that has sown the seeds in many young adult minds.

[@ProlMLGJoe]

Well that explain why we have Nazis on the internet.

[@jamesdriscoll_tmp1515]

D' oh!

[@DogeickBateman]

"Young adult" sounds like a euphemism for undeveloped manchildren

[@nidsalim7911]

@@DogeickBateman also deluded underdeveloped women

[@alastor8091]

​@@nidsalim7911 oxymoronic.

[@Bread26]

I feel like most adult cartoons have a edgy middle schooler's sense humor.

[@Oscar97o]

Edgy middle schoolers have that sense of humour because they watch these cartoons.

[@devofficialchannel]

Their humour is just the typical childish toilet humour or fart joke, but with sex, gore and profanity added for "edge". It's this paradox of being too inappropriate for children and too childish for adults.

[@ChristianFrates1997]

That’s the point of Lobo!

[@axe-tq2wn]

True

[@cookimaus1]

I always said phineas and ferb had adult humor, but not in the family guy way (ironic because dan povenmire worked on family guy). Instead its in the way where it has smart humor and jokes about lightly grown up, mundane issues, like insurance, jury duty, alimony, etc

[@KnucklesxReala911]

Oh that's what we used to actually call "family humor" not as common as it used to but back then most cartoons and pretty much all kids media that was not exclusively only for very small kids, liked to put a bit for all ages since they knew parents or elder siblings would sometimes watch it with the kid

[@cookimaus1]

@@KnucklesxReala911 yeah, in think thats a true adult humor imo. Not crass, just for the family. Phineas and ferb was definitely not a show exclusive to kids but for all ages

[@randomnoob101flyhightweek]

@@cookimaus1 and thats why everyone loves it :3 (its also made by one of the most wholesome people in the world)

[@TrueLadyEvilChan]

@@randomnoob101flyhightweek Some people try to claim that some shows are "kid shows", but honestly, 1; kids deserve good shows, and 2, a good "kid show" is enjoyed by everyone

[@TimothyCHenderson]

@@TrueLadyEvilChan Traditionally, most shows for kids (in this instance, specifically cartoons) were made to sell toys. You were just lucky if you got a good show at the same time. Now they at least put more effort to make them engaging and intelligently written. I think the idea of "kids cartoons" is often relegated to shows for the 5 and under crowd.

[@StonetheDestroyer42]

Bob's Burgers is a good example of taking an "ugly" art style, and the sitcom format, and actually handling it with respect and heart. They don't use edginess to get their audience, even if there are some dirty jokes in there, they use a relatable and warm family dynamic. I almost didn't watch it because it looked like it was going to be more of the same, but I'm glad I did, because now it's one of my favorites.

[@Dancinglemon]

Bobs burgers is one of the best examples of how “ugly” can totally work for an art style if it’s also appealing.

[@artposting1012]

I would rather say it had a more distinct character design rather than just artstyle.

[@Justaguy0111]

have you ever watched the original pilot for bobs burgers?

[@Joshuaraymalan]

I've often wondered why I find Bob's Burgers so much more appealing than other "adult" cartoons, and I'm realizing its because one of the few that I actually relate too as an adult.

[@gryphonvert]

Yeah, I felt that leaving out Bob's Burgers, without even mentioning it as an exception, was kind of a problem. It's up to 13 seasons, so it's doing something right. It's drawing an audience that isn't just in it for shock value. (And it does have continuity, although not as strict as plot-driven shows.)

[@ellag3265]

I swear with adult animation you can hear the creators yelling, "LOOK AT THIS! IS THIS FOR KIDS? LOOK!" through the screen at you at all times and it's extremely grating.

[@spaceaustrailia5895]

And anime fans are NEETs. Even in Japan

[@spaceaustrailia5895]

Anime features fan-service for characters under 10

[@tsurugi5]

@@spaceaustrailia5895and that’s a good thing, it’s a good thing that your nanny state has virtually no soft power

[@YonIon996]

Sound like china when they say their animation show are lit! I'm even laugh because its more like video game cutscene rather than animation series!🤣🤣🤣

[@cawtisticoctobear]

@@tsurugi5 are you saying that fan service of children is good or? /gen, idfk what youre trying to say 💀

[@serenatsukino5252]

Moral Orel was such a good show but it got cancelled for being too serious. I think if more companies had taken more risks, that would help people see that adult animation can be serious.

[@starling1226]

Yes I was looking for a comment about Moral Orel!

[@watashifunnyprophetyo]

YESS I WAS BEGGING SOMEONE WOULD MENTION MORAL OREL

[@lazerbeam134]

That show was magnificent satire

[@ExeErdna]

One of the western shows on Adult Swim, that show threw haymakers when it came to subject manner people are still scared of talking about.

[@e.n.strowd1949]

It walked so Bojack could run. You have to remember was 2006.

[@LaserGryph]

In Japan, it's common to see a serious, dramatic story animated. In the west, animation is so stigmatized that adults would feel embarrassed to watch animation unless it's 'funny'. And you can estimate the amount of embarrassment felt by the creators. The more embarrassed they are, the more they compensate with the craziness and childishness of the tone. As a result, ironically, they just wind up looking like the thing they're afraid of being.

[@pheunithpsychic-watertype9881]

That's precisely why my modern animation consumption is 98.9% anime. The other percent is bobs bluey and something different every once on a while

[@AmstradExin]

Watch Nagatoro first as a male perspective, then the older Kimi ni Todoke for a female perspective of the same story with the same side characters. Both of them are quiet, narrative driven shows with events that could have happened in your own life exactly the same, even though it's a different country far away.

[@twilightcitystudios]

Except for Matt & Trey, they do not seem embarrassed. At least to me they don't. If they were I don't think they would not have been aggressive with the shock humor. They do it more intentionally and especially did so in the past to try and get canceled while pushing what was allowed. Nowadays they have calmed down more it seems. Matt & Trey also seem capable of dramatic storytelling in animation like with their episode Kenny dies.

[@thecrawler1265]

​@@AmstradExin in nagatoro you're supposed to self insert as the girl not the guy

[@NSTLGZ_ALT]

Elite comment moment

[@nathanwithrow35]

I find it fascinating that children shows meant for kids can be more deep and mature then most adult cartoons nowadays.

[@iamlouis1495]

Man I can't belive how children cartoon really did more better than the adult cartoons.

[@greyscaleadaven]

As an adamant pokemon enjoyer, the Sun and Moon anime is unironically more mature in it's writing then most of them I've seen, simply because it writes it's characters like their age and has a nuanced way of approaching subjects like death, family issues, and trauma while still having lighter subjects explored as well without any of the blood and gore of an "adult" show, which is not what you'd expect from a "kids" show (which is largely a mythical term anyways outside of something literally segmented off to only children like cocomelon or something).

[@liimlsan3]

Kids are trying very hard to grow up. Adults aren't really trying anymore. They have no incentive.

[@Tsubahi]

Because children are more valued than adults that is why. 😐

[@nathanwithrow35]

@@Tsubahi true

[@jeepmega629]

Bojack Horseman and Smiling Friends are the only animated adult shows from the last 10 years that actually feel written by adults.

[@nachomanrandy]

Lol smiling friends

[@chengliu872]

This reminds me of when someone asked if the anime Princess Jellyfish was appropriate for kids. I was like "yes and no. Yes as in there is nothing objectionable, but no because I don't feel like most kids would be interested in an anime about mental/social issues and gentrification". I can't imagine saying something like that about any western animation.

[@yurisei6732]

Hell, about western media in general. I can't remember the last time I watched an American TV series or movie that actually felt like it was *about* something.

[@YonIon996]

Bro, do you even watch _"Hachi the Honey Bee"_ ?

[@chengliu872]

@@YonIon996No

[@YonIon996]

@@chengliu872 Thats what my answer when somebody ask what mature kids animation is.

[@classydays43]

The worst part is the Simpsons was so influential, people came around to capitalise on the family sitcom trope by redoing it over and over again without realising people watched it because it had deep and thought provoking storylines, NOT because it was a family sitcom.

[@rogeranimates3357]

A problem with it is that it used to be a parody of Americana,now it’a just a parody of itself

[@Mepphy99]

and now everyone in the family hate themselves

[@dowman5]

Actually, the family sitcom was already overdone by the time The Simpsons debuted in the late 80s. It was created to be a satire of the genre, along with 90s pop culture and middle America as a whole. Unfortunately, after its widespread success for over a decade, The Simpsons became the very thing it was satirizing. Super Eyepatch Wolf did a video on the very subject. m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaKpf5V5mN55oc0

[@tankdude6832]

Hell it’s the same with shrek

[@SuperMetalyrics]

Love how you straight up called out parents for not watching what their kids are doing; too many just let them do whatever and blames others for what happens

[@Nikku4211]

Yeah, it's especially important now that parents are letting their kids watch KZbin.

[@celisewillis]

Parents are exhausted. Especially so if you're a single parent. In the US, most households have two working parents, so you have two people drained from their awful day job with little energy when they get home. I think a large factor too is the fact that our culture is hyper-individualistic, so the burden of raising a whole-ass adult is placed squarely on the shoulder of only 1-2 people. For the majority of human history, children were raised by the entire village, so adults were able to take breaks and recharge from the exhausting task of raising a human. Now we have very little community, and if it exists, we usually have to drive to it (YMCA, meeting hall, church etc). When you have community, you can ask a neighbor/friend to keep an eye on your baby while you do chores. But as it is now, this is why you get tired parents just dropping their kid in front of a tablet so they can get 20 minutes to do the dishes.

[@SuperMetalyrics]

@@celisewillis Understandable, if I get kids; I'll ensure first my lifestyle will have a big enough gap so me of my wife will have time enough for them. And try to keep this in mind BEFORE starting a family, especially in this day and time

[@madmouse1016]

Fr, I remember being in elementary school and hearing other kids talking about episodes of Simpsons and Family Guy and would think "How are they watching those?? My parents would never let me watch them-"

[@snaildude268]

​@@celisewillis brother, you don't have to put the extra effort if you just don't give your kid a phone.

[@abadyr_]

I hope the likes of "Arcane" will inspire more animated series and movie of such quality.

[@MaticTheProto]

We can only hope, but few other shows will have that kind of combined talent and funding

[@me-myself-i787]

The thing about Arcane is, it's so good that people don't really want to watch it on their phone. However, they generally don't have the time to commit to watching 50 minutes on the television. So instead, they tell themselves that they will watch it later, and watch stuff like Rick and Morty on their phone.

[@MaticTheProto]

@@me-myself-i787 lol what

[@me-myself-i787]

@@MaticTheProto Basically, people don't have time to commit to watching such long episodes on the TV, which is why Arcane isn't more popular.

[@NoidoDev]

@@me-myself-i787 I never watched a movie or show on my phone (only way bigger tablet).

[@2D_Specs]

Professional animator here who's animated on things including Robot Chicken. You hit a lot of key points, but also one of the reasons these things come about and can feel homogeneous is because the people making these things - directors, creators and crew members (myself included) - tend to be all the same people. People working in animation jump from one thing to the next due to the gig based nature of this industry, and if these people are well liked by people in higher positions, we get largely the same kinds of crews working on all these projects. By nature, these groups have things they've come accustomed to and techniques they like using that they then bring from job to job, which end up being present in multiple projects as a result. Couple that with how big networks and businesses have been absorbed/merged in recent years, leaving fewer and fewer places to pitch ideas to that were traditionally there, or a single/tiny group of executives curating what gets made, and you get a lot of shows in "main stream" avenues of media coming out that either seem really similar or aren't really doing much to differentiate themselves. This isn't a complaint necessarily on my end, but rather what I've observed in my time in this industry.

[@schoo9256]

Really interesting to hear and it makes sense. Thank you for sharing!

[@J4j4yd3r]

The infamous reputation of Harvey Weinstein for cutting Ghibli movies to shreds to make them "more palatable to American audiences" has always struck home to me just how much of a problem the industry has with this type of concentration of power, especially production/executive decision-making power. If not addressed, it becomes its own self-fulfilling prophecy, and everyone loses in the end - the artists, their work, and the public, obviously, but even the decision-makers and rent-seekers lose out on a more thriving industry/market.

[@SirFailsalot91]

One of the biggest problems with adult cartoons is, why is everyone so damn awful to each other? It's as if being a miserable jerk is supposed to be some form of enlightenment and being a polite considerate person is just blissful ignorance or childish stupidity - why would you live with a family who hates each other and verbally abuses one another on the daily, or hang out with "friends" who only humiliate and belittle you while you do everything to make sure they stick around? That's the kind of scenarios we have with Family Guy, Rick & Morty and Velma, and logically you'd be advised to seek help for being in abusive relationships like these in real life, but I guess it's the norm that groups are horrible to one another by default to writers of shows like these. At least with Moral Orel, it's played for irony that he's so positive and cheerful while everything in his life is actually awful and he looks past it because "Nothing can be bad as long as you put your faith in God," and only in Season 3 during his camping trip with his dad does he finally break and lose his positivity, but seeing it be the norm for an adult cartoon to make everybody so miserable and malicious as if *_that_* is where the humour comes from just doesn't make any sense. I just really don't understand why a cartoon cast for adults can't at least have some form of familial or platonic compassion and love for each other, why nobody can just be polite to one another or why they can't have a positive outlook on life without being treated like a blissful idiot - everything is just too malicious to make me laugh, but maybe that's just because I "don't get it" anymore when it comes to humour.

[@AlfurAldric2211]

That's the reason Smiling Friends caught on, because while it isn't inventing a new genre(it IS pretty similar to Aqua Teen Hunger Force), it's breaking that paradigm of every character needing to be an insufferable jerk to each other 24/7 for the funny.

[@VasterLordUlquiorra]

"One of the biggest problems with adult cartoons is, why is everyone so damn awful to each other? It's as is being a miserable jerk is supposed to be some form of enlightenment and being a polite considerate person is just blissful ignorance or childish stupidity - why would you live with a family who hates each other and verbally abuses one another on the daily, or hang out with "friends" who only humiliate and belittle you while you do everything to make sure they stick around? That's the kind of scenarios we have with Family Guy, Rick & Morty and Velma, and logically you'd be advised to seek help for being in abusive relationships like in real life, but I guess it's the norm that families are horrible to one another to writers of shows like these." 1) this is a common situation, but just heavily enhanced. the usual scandal turns into a fight and so on. That is, they reflect reality (less than 20% of the world's prosperous families). 2) It is necessary for the plot, a good ordinary family is boring, usually a good family in a drama where this family will collapse or die. 3) This is humor, it is popular because it works for both children and adults who have encountered or thought about this in their family. 4) People in good families are more inclined to such shows because they are stuffy "people who grew up in a gentle environment are more inclined to search for hard content." 5) commerce (it worked and still works) why change p.s. I don't watch Western cartoons, except South Park, Avatar, Disney movies without 3d animation.

[@spiderqueen8463]

@@VasterLordUlquiorra About your point of 4), as someone who had literally been kicked out of my parents' home after years of abuse and neglect, I can tell you that 4) is pretty much wrong. I have been through so much garbage, and yet I wanna see a loving family/happy relationships portrayed in comedy so badly. Insufferable doesn't make it funny, and it's not just "stuffy people" who watch this gentler stuff.

[@chedelirio6984]

Like she touched upon: the creators of these new shows try too hard to be the "opposite"of what they grew up seeing as what animation (or for that matter, the family sitcom genre in general) was about. Good always triumphing, father knowing best, a positive moral lesson somewhere in it, people being literal super friends, nobody getting hurt. They feel: OMG my whole childhood was a steady diet of bulls*** . I'll create something that shows the reality that the world and life sucks.

[@kyleinthejar6829]

Moral Orel is definitely my favorite out of the examples you mentioned, and I’d like to add to that point. Moral Orel not only does a good job of playing around with the typical “every single character is an asshole or terrible person” formula many adult cartoons fall victim too, but it’s irony is quite impressive. Morel Orel as a show is a direct criticism of modern religion, this much is obvious. As someone who grew up within a massively religious town, I can safely say a lot of overly religious communities feel the need to wear a facade of “perfection” and “constant happiness and prosperity”. Moral Orel’s irony coming from the fact that despite attempting to do what many religious towns do in that regard, the citizens of Orel’s town are constantly miserable. And the titular character Orel, of whom goes against the typical “by the books Christian” by simply not understanding a lot of what’s being said to him, appears to be the happiest. Morel Oral says the quiet part out loud, it shines a light on the darker parts of religious communities and how judgmental and condemning they can become. The characters aren’t jerks for the sake of it or for “comedy”, they’re people who are struggling, yet stuck in a society where struggle is not permitted. It’s a damn shame this show never made it past 3 seasons.

[@MASTEROFEVIL]

There's a reason why Bluey was the most watched "kids" show in the world at one point

[@iclynnx]

Yes, and another example is Puss in Boots 2: The Last Wish. It's enjoyed by both kids and grown-ups alike.

[@Half-LifeFan]

It's unbelievable how kids shows or movie (bluey and puss in boots as the guy above me mention) impact more than most of adult shows that has "cultural references" .

[@pianoman8795]

​@@Half-LifeFan well I think adult shows are meant for edgy teens. I don't really see a mature grown up watching something as disgusting as Paradise PD or Family Guy. But I remember when I was a kid, I used to watch stuff like that all the time, cause it was "for adults".

[@gamerman782]

​@@pianoman8795 I can imagine adults watching Family Guy simply because they grew up watching it

[@kungszigfrids1482]

@@pianoman8795 As someone who has a teenager 2 years ago. Ive never seen any edgy teens watch something like family guy either. We watch anime.

[@brianwalley2131]

When I was a child Japanese animation appealed to me more than american because the stories were more sophisticated and dealt with real emotions

[@benrejeboussama6166]

you didn't watch enough adult cartoons.

[@brianwalley2131]

when I was a child I didn't have access to adult content@@benrejeboussama6166

[@yurisei6732]

Also they had more card games on motorcycles.

[@Urvy1A]

Mostly hentai

[@emptinessitself]

Dunno why those comments are so mean, but yeah, me too My first fav anime was Sky Castle Laputa from Hayao Miyazaki Idk, it's just stuck in my heart

[@vulcanhumor]

King of the Hill did a FANTASTIC job of being an adult-oriented animated sitcom that actually had heart, dignity, complex characterization and poignant social commentary. Unlike its contemporaries The Simpsons and Family Guy, I don't think it had much of an audience outside the US. Even within the US, I think its humor got lost on a lot of people because it was more subtle than other shows in the genre...sometimes it took you a second to even realize a joke had been made...and it was usually character-driven. Instead of setting up punchlines, they'd just put a couple of characters in a particular situation together and let their personalities play off each other. It was never mean either; while every character got their chance to be the butt of a joke, their humanity always remained intact. Even consistently awful characters like Cotton would have their moments of grace. It's also been called "the last bipartisan TV comedy" in regards to poking fun at different political perspectives, and it took a very even-handed, non-preachy approach to discussing hot-button issues.

[@MattMcIrvin]

I heard somewhere that King of the Hill actually has a passionate Japanese fanbase (not sure how large it is). The humor on the show is very, very much about American culture to an even greater degree than the others, but some people outside the US may appreciate it for that reason as an exploration of weird Americana.

[@andrewdreasler428]

"You're not wrong there, I tell you what." And the way they wrapped up the series, with Hank and Bobby finally being able to bond over the newly-discovered talent Bobby has for grading meat, and the grilling skill that comes from knowing meat so well. I actually think it brought a tear to my eye when they did the pan up to the Arlen skyline to close the show.

[@ok-tr1nw]

Autism be damned my adult tv show can work a grill

[@JeremyLevi]

King of the Hill really is a stand out example. So much so that my mother who was in her late 40s when it first came out absolutely *loved* that show and watched it regularly.

[@hengineer]

Your point about Cotton stands though. I remember the episode where they got new neighbors, and all of Hank and his buddies kept asking "are you Chinese or Japanese". It took Cotton all of one decent look to recognize that he was actually Laotian. "Nope he's Laotian"

[@kain5056]

What really annoys me is when people expect *every* adult cartoon to be a sitcom. When Inside Job was cancelled, I saw many saying stuff like "good, it wasn't that funny to begin with" and I was thinking "not every adult cartoon has to be Rick and Morty you tasteless troglodyte!"

[@Dave102693]

Because it’s very easy to mske sitcom slog. .

[@BigK13372]

Funny as you mentioned Rick & Morty as I think people forget that the show itself didn’t just got its audience for its edgy humor and meta comedy, but also its deconstructive drama on the whole Uneympathetic Comedic Sociopath archtype with an overarching plot involving Rick’s backstory. Like it is the style of writting that Inside Job is emulating, only it leans more on the drama aspect than comedy

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

@@BigK13372 personally I think it's a bit funny that the show itself mentions complaints over it's deviation from "classic Rick and Morty adventures" While it was often just parodying other sci-fi stories, the show has continued to change its dynamics and focus as it has gone on, despite maintaining it's very heavy leanings and subversions of tropes from other stories.

[@MarquisLeary34]

YES!!! THANK YOU! How we got to the state where we can't try any other genre seemingly upsets me...

[@OfficialRaveBlitz]

The fact that My Little Pony, The Lion Guard, the DuckTales Reboot, Amphibia, Owl House, and other cartoons these days display more emotional maturity, good storytelling, and nuance, than a show made for adults like Rick & Morty and Family Guy says alot, and usually said cartoons made for kids are better written and don't treat their audiences like idiots unlike the shows made for "Grown ups".

[@bloodbadger5332]

Where did you get your profile pic from?

[@OfficialRaveBlitz]

@@bloodbadger5332 A simple google search. Lol.

[@bloodbadger5332]

@@OfficialRaveBlitz I need something more specific than that.🙂

[@kelleyceccato7025]

I agree completely! But I would add Gravity Falls and She-Ra and the Princesses of Power to the list of "kids' shows" that are more sophisticated and nuanced in their storytelling than the shows supposedly targeted at adults.

[@RoguSpanish]

Shows for kids can be great, but my favorite show of all time is still The Venture Brothers, and I don't think it could work as a kid's show and still be as amazing as it is. Even if you somehow sanitized all the adult themes, it would go way the fuck over my head if I was a 9 year old.

[@FinnOAventureiro]

It's really ironic to see a family cartoon that airs on Discovery Kids (BLUEY) be more mature than 99% of "adult cartoons".

[@bobatealily]

Western adult animations that are actually adult (in my opinion): -Blue Eye Samurai (It’s not an anime contrary to popular belief. It was erroneously labeled as one. As an avid anime fan, I can tell.) -King of the Hill -Primal -Tuca & Bertie -Bojack Horseman -Futurama -Disenchantment And from my observations, it’s mostly American adult animations that are immature and childish. Many Western adult animations that are actually mature are European adult animated films. Examples are Birdboy (Spanish), Unicorn Wars (Spanish), My Life As A Zucchini (French), Felidae (German), Chico and Rita (Spanish), Wrinkles (Spanish), and I Lost My Body (French) to name a few.

[@slowblindchild]

One adult cartoon that comes to mind that was a major success and deserves all the love it gets is King of the Hill. By adult cartoon sitcom standards, it was honestly really well made

[@gryphonvert]

Yeah, King of the Hill (12 seasons) and Bob's Burgers (13 seasons) deserve a mention as sitcom-structured shows that DON'T just fall into the Family Guy model. Their creators seem to care a lot more about telling a story, and seem to care about the characters and their relationships, and character growth. I agree with the thesis here, but I feel like it weakens the argument a bit by not acknowledging that the "adult animation" people have a bad opinion of is really a subset of adult animation. This video makes it seem like it's *nothing but* Family Guy clones or Rick & Morty clones, and that's far from the truth. (IMO, the video also doesn't discuss enough the fact that the Simpsons became giant, and long-running, without the same kind of edgy humor and violence that you see in later shows.) I feel a bit like it's making the same mistake as it criticizes people who think "animation is a genre" are making -- it's treating "adult animation" as consisting only of South Park, Family Guy, and Rick & Morty.

[@pheunithpsychic-watertype9881]

Well watch that get defecated on with the revival on the way. Hopefully it doesn't happen

[@AmstradExin]

I think it comes down to realistic interaction between humans. Some Anime shows have become basically a string of events that happened in real life. Realistic dialog can really change an entire genre.

[@wellacoyoteishere185]

Home Movies walked so Bob's Burgers could run

[@AmstradExin]

@@wellacoyoteishere185 Which? Home Alone? Home Improvement? Homer Simpson?

[@amazingspiderlad]

Thank you for actually not making the Velma video when you realised everything has already been said. At this point, nothing new gets brought up when talking about this show.

[@s4veoursanity]

The Velma videos have devolved so much anyway that it's no longer really about critiquing it reasonably, if it ever was. So even though I think Fiona would make a good review, I'm kinda sick of the whole thing

[@amazingspiderlad]

@@s4veoursanity Exactly. The show itself isn't even really bad, it's just painfully average and attached to an existing franchise. It's basically Teen Titans Go all over again. Neither show would get as much hate as it does, were it not based on an existing IP.

[@ironmaster6496]

​@@amazingspiderlad Nah it's bad but just that, a bad show, sometimes shows are just....well BAD, not horrible but not mediocre either, it's like Highlander 2 it's a bad movie plain and simple

[@RageOfBeef]

​​@@ironmaster6496 I think I agree with the other guy, more in the sense that I can see a reasonable purpose to a show like Velma's existence, especially in an age where grown adults are trying in America at least, to heavily sanitize the public education system because their rose tinted look back forgets all the sort of gross shit that Velma didn't, like when I was in highschool hearing about two girls going at it in the changing rooms was just par for the course, but if course you show that in Velma and people freaked, when imo it was a very necessary scene to remind people that teen is not equivalent to ignorant child with no sense of self, but I think it would've done better with one a better writer and two a new IP rather than a gutted old IP being reused so the studio didn't have to claim a new one and go through legal hoops

[@joevaghn457]

The show actually is all that terrible.

[@Dollmoth9]

I feel like Moral Orel had some very deep and moving messages in the later episodes. It was made using stop motion and you can tell the creator put a ton of heart into making it. The voice acting is also pretty outstanding. The first season suffers from the childish edgy humor that Adult Swim has become known for but if you give it time it is genuinely moving and sticks with you long after you finish it.

[@Z3r0_g]

I think the show’s intent was to start out looking like a normal adult animated sitcom, but give a sort of slow burn into seriousness. (Sorry if this comment looks weird, I’m bad at words.)

[@babybell224]

YEYSYEUSYEYESYSYEYS

[@devofficialchannel]

Moral Orel kinda started out as more of a satire of Christian shows with a mature spin. So the growing maturity and plot of later seasons were intentional.

[@ThreeFourEqualsSeven]

Edgy humor isn't even like a show killer or anything, it can be funny when not overdone and the only part of a show, a good example is Hell of a Boss, edgy humor that is funny whilst still telling a story

[@ilikechestnuts9085]

It's kinda fascinating how Beavis and Butt-Head was one of the first "adult" (but more like edgy teenager) shows of the 90s and then gave birth to King of the Hill, one of the few actually grown-up shows of the time.

[@Skokapus]

love how the satire of beavis and butthead is now lost in a sea of supre edgy family guy clones, that it looks just like one of those

[@v0n12z]

i feel like there was a 180 somewhere, kids cartoons became more complex and emotional whereas adult cartoons became more vulgar and simple 😭 shows like avatar that are "made for kids" end up being the shows adults most enjoy

[@Newfiecat]

Yeah...kinda funny. Lots of adults in their 30s are watching shows like Avatar, The Owl House, Amphibia, Steven Universe, She-Ra, etc. While kids young as 8 are drawn towards shows like Rick and Morty and Family Guy.

[@pumkin610]

There's a lot of things that people would say aren't meant for children to see or hear, so a show for adults has the freedom to include pretty much any topic or thing, including stuff that doesn't really help the story or inspire anyone, something that a child would find funny and cool. Atla has heart and a message suitable for everyone.

[@stargazer162]

I think one example of a (non Western) adult animation I particularly liked is Aggretsuko. What I like about it is how it doesn't need edgy jokes about sex and drugs or gratuitous violence to try to seem mature, instead what makes it mature is how it deals with themes and situations that are relatable to most adults. It isn't a show that tries to seem adult, take for example Velma which is constantly trying so hard to shove into your face the fact that it's an "adult cartoon" while still feeling incredibly childish. Aggretsuko, in the other hand, presents itself as a cutesy talking animals show in the same vein of Hello Kitty and other Sanrio franchises, but it doesn't need to try to seem mature when it simply is.

[@StonetheDestroyer42]

I love Aggretsuko. My girlfriend does, too. It clearly loves the medium and leans into it, taking advantage of what it allows that live action wouldn't. And it uses this to accomplish its goal: portraying the big feelings we all get in even the small, mundane events. It's got so much heart.

[@vivvy_0]

sad the ending was so rushed

[@ezrafaulk3076]

I'd say Wayforward and Hidden Variable are *also* good western studios; their most famous works, Shantae and Skullgirls respectively, do do *some* fanservice (pretty much *every* attractive female character in Shantae wears a top that's generous on the cleavage and bares her midriff, with the titular character being a literal belly dancer, and virtually *every* female fighter in Skullgirls being presented in some fanservicey way, whatever it may be), but they also don't make a big deal out of it; it just *is* , and even though there's no swearing, gore, or *overtly* sexual content in *either* of those games, the former has a seemingly kid friendly vibe to it, and the latter has a couple of *actual* child characters in it, I'd argue those games are *far* more mature than something like say, the new *Strip fighter* game on Steam, which just has clothes being ripped off for the *sake* of it, which comes off as *tasteless* and *immature* ironically.

[@AutistRapper]

I mean most anime can be seen as adult animation or at least not for kids

[@stargazer162]

​@@AutistRapper Well, I wouldn't say most, because while a lot of anime have mature themes and is not for kids, I think the majority are targeted mostly towards teenagers, anime targeted explicitly at adults are a bit less common in comparison. Probably a good indication of that is the age of the characters, most anime featuring highschoolers characters tend to be targeted mainly at teenagers. That said, that doesn't mean it can't be mature, Death Note for example was a very good and pretty mature show even though it's classified as a "shonen" and the main character is a highschooler.

[@armandoreyes1029]

I know it's not adult-oriented, but Avatar the Last Airbender was the best in terms of storytelling, the serious tropes and the character development was spot-on for a children-oriented cartoon. I still remember me, my brother and my mom binge-watching all the seasons, it was so engaging. Nowadays I'm watching Helluva Boss, it's more violence and edgy than anything else, but it throws some good storylines here and there, sometimes it lines up with Rick and Morty in the flow of the episode: introduction>action scene>character drama>emotional drop>end. I agree that adult-oriented animation doesn't necessarily need to have violence, sexually explicit content, just a nice story with some good character development is what we need.

[@primalaspid2972]

It’s nice to see more story driven adult animation release in the west, with shows like The Legend of Vox Machina and Invincible becoming popular it looks like the industry is finally gonna start moving in a better direction

[@Lady_Indigo]

Honestly the more cartoons we get based on tabletop RPGs, the better off we will be, the whole goal is to tell a story with your friends ^_^

[@Werrygrimm]

I HATE PRIMAL ASPIDS

[@Chstrbrg45]

The fact that most "children" cartoons now deals with newer generation trauma, and adult cartoons is just..... there for the stereotype and for the goofy stuff

[@orrorsaness5942]

Indeed. In the meantime, there is always my comic in my KZbin channel, Orror SANESS.

[@snowyyzoe]

ironically the simpsons stood out back in the day BECAUSE it actually talked about generational trauma (though in sort of a darkly comedic way)

[@shadowleon659]

It's really funny to see episodes of children's cartoons like Hey Arnold, Reccess and Lilo and Stitch, diving into serious topics and real life issues far much better than many adult cartoons. Let that sink in.

[@Darkloid21]

I think Inside Job is the rare case of adult animation done well. It’s kooky in places yea but there’s strong points to be made, especially in the second half of it. You see Regan mature even when it hurts and her dad eventually coming to terms with the fact that not everything broken can be fixed. Among other things. Tuca and Bertie did it well too.

[@weeyul]

I think as more people in western audiences put attention into anime or shows like Arcane (which is fantastic) the industry will shift toward more mature animated content. The entertainment industry is just so massive that it takes a long time to change.

[@PhoenicopterusR]

Gotta prove the investment is worthwhile, and that the success wasn't just a fluke. Unfortunate but true.

[@NoidoDev]

If the new content came from inside the existing industry it would still carry a certain political tendency and cultural values. It looks more expensive than the average anime. Anything like it would for that reason trying to be accepted by the mainstream, while anime covers a lot of niches.

[@sir_gregory3528]

Why is noone ever mentioning Genndy Tartakowski's PRIMAL... It's a brilliant animated show for adults without the need for words to understand whats going on.

[@KnucklesxReala911]

Primal i feel was one of the few shows that knew how to give both extreme yet meaningful violence, some people at first saw it as gratuitous or power fantasy, but it's violence was never seen as cool or admirable, it was always portrait as a harsh world you has to survive if you want to keep going even if you wished you for a tender life

[@coltonm.strawn1771]

I know exactly how you feel. I love Primal. It’s one of my favorite shows and easily the best thing Genndy Tartakovsky has made since Samurai Jack.

[@pharoahcaraboo9610]

i think because primal was good, but ended with a wet splat LOL. mediocre endings tend to make or break things... but it was overall a very well done adult show. i wish there were more like it.

[@MasterAlpha1000]

Ew that is as gross as Ren and Stimpy adult animation. No one should watch that crap

[@Broomer52]

His work feels sadly under appreciated. He’s a master of cinematography in cartoons

[@maddenboseroy4074]

Bill Watterson once wrote in his 10th anniversary Calvin and Hobbes book, "I suspect that most of us get old without growing up, and that inside every adult (sometimes not very far inside) is a bratty kid who wants everything his own way." (In the same book, he wrote, "I think [bullies] spawn on damp locker room floors.") I also think that Velma was more based on the R-rated animated Harley Quinn show than Family Guy or The Simpsons.

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

I don't even pretend that's not true. Of course I want everything my way. And when I look at everything from the perspective of someone who believes we'll ohtain immortality... Everyone is so damned young

[@kittenpaws8896]

I'm surprised Lackadaisy isn't mentioned. It's one of fhe best pilots ever and it's ADULT THEMED. It has lore, not a lot of sex jokes, and the storyline is perfect with WONDERFUL characters! It's like any other children's show and it's humor is perfect. You gotta go see it.

[@NoidoDev]

Thanks, reminded me of Felidae from Germany which I completely forgot about.

[@AndreSkipper]

This video: 6 months ago Pilot: 5 months ago I know the comment is old but 😼👍

[@BGL19283]

This is literally the reason Anime has become so popular in America. There's a lot of just "life" stuff, serious animations, well crafted narratives.

[@MarquisLeary34]

Don't get too complacent though. Anime is also a victim of lowest common denominator slop at times. Not everything out of Japan is a heartfelt work of art.

[@mastermoye3915]

​@MarquisLeary34 You make a pretty good point there.

[@MarquisLeary34]

@@mastermoye3915 Yea, people forget that studios in Japan like to make money too, so they go with the tried and true formula of cranking out profitable slop same as the US.

[@IceRiver1020]

"Adult" cartoons have been the angsty teens of animation, constantly trying to prove how grown up they are by acting completely out of control.

[@ThatGreenMach1ne]

I know for a fact that Family Guy is more popular with children than with adults. That's why family guy keeps its rancid humor. On the more positive side, I really love Smiling Friends. Weirdly enough it doesn't use swear words that often, but it's far more shocking than Family Guy.

[@skootergirl22]

I've seen clips on KZbin and a lot of kids commenting

[@detectivemememachin5011]

That's kinda one of the many reason I see many others (myself included) prefer Bob's Burgers over Family Guy (other than the fact that the Belchers don't hate each other)

[@usrnewxnew5227]

It's also happier and less cynical than family guy, or any other adult cartoons for that matter.

[@hiralykowalski6825]

@@usrnewxnew5227 It's darkness got quality over quantity When you get attacked with edgy violent stuff too often then you get too much desensitized

[@frogturtle]

the average age of a family guy viewer is 18-34 years old

[@fatcat1414]

I honestly think this is the product of teens and adults wanting to indulge in silliness without the sincerity that marks things as 'childish.' So we end up with edgy meaningless things that can't come from writers who actually try, because suddenly that's cringe. Adult cartoons are a remarkable example of irony-poisoning.

[@harryfox7488]

I think season 5 of Samurai Jack was a good example of mature animation, or rather "maturing" animation. It didn't just go "oh we're edgy and dark and we can show blood now", instead the writers used the new found libraries to enhance the story and themes and incorporate them as a natural part of the setting.

[@TBoneTony]

I think the problem is that Western Society and Animation companies in Hollywood always consider Animation as being nothing more than a market for the kids. Thus the reason why anything that is considered adult in Animation is often the complete opposite where we have nothing more than satire comedy and often exaggerated portrayals of characters once thought to be nothing more than a kids cartoon. I believe that Japan and France don't have this stigma when it comes to their Animation, thus is the reason why you can find many animation from Japan and France that have some sort of maturity in their characters and are not trying too hard to be a cartoon for adults.

[@Friendly_Neigborhood_Astolfo]

That last bit is why I will forever be an anime fan. Also you are not kidding about France, They don't fuck around woth art.

[@thomasffrench3639]

What is interesting is that anime wasn’t considered for adults until the 1970s in Japan. They pretty much considered it kids stuff from the beginning unlike America. But they did evolve past it somewhat, as now it’s not uncommon for a Japanese adult to watch an animated show. However that is not to say that it’s common for adults to watch animation. Most anime is for a teenage audience or otakus. It’s considered a bit cringe to be “into anime” in Japan. But at least animation isn’t that stigmatized.

[@TBoneTony]

@@thomasffrench3639 True as you said, Modern Manga originally started with kids writing stories after WW2 like Tezuka as they wanted to escape from the horrors of post WW2 Japan that they had to live through. Before that Manga as well as Anime was just cartoons or animation that was half inspired by their own culture as well as a few western influences in regards to basic Animation techniques during the 20s and 30s. There was one Pre-WW2 Manga that was similar to Belgium's Tintin series for example from what I could gather from the pictures of this history of Manga book, it was about a boy and his pet dog. And when it comes to Japan and Animation, there are many adults who love Animation in Japan so it's true that it doesn't carry the same stigma as it does in the West and with adults who still like to watch cartoons. There is some stigma when it comes to the word Otaku due to how the news media in Japan portrayed the murders of those girls and how the killer was a fan of anime at the time. But if you look at the series precure, it is a magical girl series that is aimed for young girls, yet most of the audience are adult men.

[@mr.x2567]

Part of the reason that stigma against animation exists is because corporations are using it to get away with screwing over the people who work on animation. It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

[@Friendly_Neigborhood_Astolfo]

@@thomasffrench3639 how dare they consider it cringe!

[@Squib-kb2tn]

Kid cartoons teach the important lessons of adulthood, while adult cartoons try grasping at the memories of childhood. Or a bit more accurately, grasping at immature-ness.

[@gatling216]

I think the whole "kids like adult animation" thing is certainly a factor in determining how these shows get made and marketed, but there's more to it. Millennials of a certain age, especially in America, where a lot of these shows are produced, lost their innocence in a very big way at a young age. We grew up with constant reminders of 9/11, of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, with recessions and bailouts and a future that looked more and more uncertain. In the span of a decade, we watched the prosperity promised to our parents circle round the drain just in time for us to go out on our own, and that left us with a sense of uncertain nihilistic hopelessness that a lot of these cartoons speak to. Nothing makes sense and nothing matters, and hearing it said out loud speaks to a lot of us in real, visceral ways.

[@mattwolf7698]

The 90's were very edgy too though, just look at the media from back then, Nirvana, Nine Inch Nails, Limp Bizkit, gangster rap in general, Mortal Kombat and just adult games in general becoming common and then there was some pretty dark movies like Natural Born Killers for example. 90's comics were also very angsty as well to my understanding. The millennials did grow up seeing depressing the world could be but Gen X discovered this a decade before 9/11.

[@blockytheblock1]

@@mattwolf7698 ok but like you did not just mix in nirvana and nin with "gangster rap"

[@BoozeAholic]

@@blockytheblock1 No he's saying that they're all part of the same edgy anti-authority subculture. Who in their right mind would think that NIN is similar to Kurt Cobain or those two to Ice Cube? What they all have in common is either a distaste or apathy towards mainstream culture.

[@BoozeAholic]

@@mattwolf7698 The main difference between Millennial edgy content vs Gen X is that Gen X has a strong sense of anti authority & self-improvement. Tupac rapped about Illuminati which would get you labeled as AltRight these days. Millennial edgy content like Bojack Horseman deals more with identity & psychological issues. I hate millennial content because it's so negative & depressing. It reads like a bunch of mental patients on meds, on the drift of insanity because even their therapists have failed them.

[@niksatt4843]

South park has always been social commentary. I think they are intelligent despite the toilet humor. A lot of people miss it because they dont watch them much. Ive been watching the show since it came out. Originally they were doing scripts that were just childish toilet humor snd shit kids would like. I mean i loved it but later as they got older it became social commentary now that they are old men its just about randy. Honestly i think the show is just for my generation and gen x because its just been so relatable at every step for me.

[@Moxypony]

My brother was working for Netflix animation when the big turn happened. I remember how excited we all were for him at the start and how heartbreaking it was when the fall came.

[@celisewillis]

I'm sorry that happened to him. I remember Netflix throwing all these big parties in 2018-2019 inviting artists to come pitch shows, and I felt an enormous pressure to pitch, pitch, pitch! So glad I didn't, because it would either have either gotten stuck in development purgatory, or at best only gotten one season, and then I have no rights to those characters and world anymore. Indie animation is where it's at!

[@gigikju9934]

The irony is that there’s kind of been a bit of an uprise in shows like Gravity Falls (kids shows focused a lot of humour but with a developed plot and more mature themes). This includes Amphibia, TOH, and now (probably) The Ghost and Molly McGee. Not to mention shows like ATLA, which is a flat out masterpiece

[@gryphonvert]

The thing is, when discussing TOH and Amphibia -- they're in a straight line with Gravity Falls. The quality of GF is what leads directly into TOH and Amphibia, with people who worked on GF thankfully getting their own chance to make a show based on the high reputation of GF. One of the bits I disagreed with (slightly) in this video was saying "You don't get to make an Owl House right away" (or something like that). I mean... Dana Terrace was discovered by the Gravity Falls team on Tumblr, and was brought on for GF's second season. So she worked on one season of GF (which took like 2 years of course), and then, uh yeah, pretty much DID get to go right into making The Owl House. And, I don't disagree that there are people working in animation who just want to do their jobs. It's just, the Gravity Falls / Steven Universe grouping is an example of teams that themselves got their experience on passion projects, on shows that were pretty well-regarded. One show, the Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack, begets: Adventure Time, Over the Garden Wall, The Regular Show, and Gravity Falls. Gravity Falls itself begets The Owl House, Big City Greens, Amphibia, The Mitchells vs. the Machines, and Inside Job (so far). It just seems to be a very different pipeline from what we see in the "adult animation" world, which seems a lot more disjointed?

[@theconstellationofboredom8635]

@@gryphonvert Ya know, reading what you wrote I feel like Gravity Falls was like a parent who got kids who retained retained some of their parent's features and likeness but those kids grew up and became their very own show. It kinda felt like that to me.

[@ganymedehedgehog371]

I’d say Adventure time was an interesting case of a show growing up with the audience. It started as short funny and wacky episodes but turned into a really lore heavy show with good character development. It would hit real topics while staying true to its content.

[@deltaboogaloo633]

What is TOH?

[@gryphonvert]

@@deltaboogaloo633 The Owl House.

[@Otval_bashky]

Teenagers in children cartoons behave more mature and smart than adults in "adult" cartoons that have a family

[@SpagettiSpeltWrong]

I think the reason so many adult animated shows are episodic comedies is because comedy is easy to do. Why spend time writing genuine heartfelt content qhen you can just make a carbon copy of Family Guy with a few thematic changes and make a million dollars?

[@shizuwolf]

In my opinion, there’s 2 reasons: 1. Animation in the West isn’t taken that seriously compared to the East 2. Everyone thinks “adults already have everything figured out, so why aim for the best writing?”. That’s probably why animation aimed at younger viewers seem to have better writing.

[@Lady-Artblock]

I think we overestimate the maturity of adults. I am 35 years old and many people around me find scatological or sexual topics more fun, or they simply enjoy making fun of other people. I think that many of these series seem childish now because the new generations have a more intelligent sense of humour, or at least a different type of humor. But in my prehistoric times, the one who made the most disgusting, violent or controversial joke was the one who got the medal for the funniest person. (Sorry about my potato English :D)

[@chloeorr9880]

*apologizes for English* *makes a beautifully written argument*

[@VeSpEr7iNe]

Hmmm it depends, I'm 32 and although I laught at stupid shit like, I'm always watching KZbin and youtubers humor is the childish stupid thing one can get. But when it comes to shows that I have to sit and watch it better be at least something interesting

[@Lady-Artblock]

@@VeSpEr7iNe Sure, I was just speaking in general and from my experience, I can't speak for every millennial. I myself have moved away from the kind of humour that was there before.

[@133774c05]

Celebrity deathmatch generation, I didn't speak English back then and didn't know a good two thirds of the celebrities on the show but man I still watched the hell out of it.

[@noahbossier1131]

Makes sense.

[@KefkeWren]

I would really love to see more Western animations tackle more serious material. I've thought about it for years. I'm not sure when I started noticing it, but I do know that whenever the subject comes up, my go-to example of what animation can be is a movie called "Grave of the Fireflies", a tragic drama about the horrors of World War II, and how it affected the civilians of Japan, which was once a double-feature with family-friendly "My Neighbour Totoro". Totoro was actually used as a palette cleanser after Grave, because Grave was so depressing. That movie absolutely _destroyed_ me when I watched it, but it also helped to demonstrate how well animation could be used to tell powerful, meaningful stories. So now I'm just waiting for the day when we get an animated equivalent of...I don't know, "Breaking Bad" or "The Sopranos" maybe? "Black Mirror" perhaps? I've enjoyed series like "The Good Place", "Star Trek", and "The X Files", but I worry that shows like that, with their more fantastical settings, run the risk of getting slapped with the "kids show" brush without the realism of live action to ground those settings. Maybe what animation needs to be taken seriously in the West is to give us the next "M*A*S*H" - a show tackling a subject so serious that no one can misinterpret what the target audience is.

[@Oldmanfnaf]

The Secret of NIMH | Wrinkles | Fantasic Mister Fox | secret of kells | Song of the Sea | Apollo 10 1⁄2: A Space Age Childhood | Persepolis | Ernest & Celestine | A Cat in Paris | Anomalisa | Watership Down | 9 | Mary and Max | The Plague Dogs | just google europe and latin animated movies, you can thank me later

[@hamishstewart5324]

For a mature adult animated movie, check out Unicorn Wars, an absolutely brutal movie that tackles themes of war, political corruption, religious dogma, and scapegoating, with violence juxtaposed by absolutely gorgeous animation with numerous atmospheric scenes of forests and animals.

[@karolinakuc4783]

​@@hamishstewart5324It was good. So was Birdboy by the same writter. But let's face it. Both were passion projects. He didn't earn a penny, in fact lost a lot of money making these movies.

[@macmurfy2jka]

The Boondocks, Venture Bro’s, Archer, King of the Hill, and Bob’s Burgers are all stand outs for their quality in the Animated Sitcom Genre that handle more adult themes with grace. Some are more crude with the humor, but this is still “Adult Animation” we are talking about. The Creators of The Boondocks and Venture Bro’s obviously cared very deeply about animation as Medium. There are also some other stand outs that don’t fit the sitcom mold like Moral Oral. Personally, Superjail is a guilty pleasure for me. I love the no holds bared absurdity of it. It also has surprisingly nuanced characters for how flat that type of show demands them be.

[@PhoenicopterusR]

I think it just goes to show that crass humour and weird nonsense is okay in adult animation, adult media in general really, so long as there's still meaningful content somewhere in there as well.

[@ItIsTheLordWhoKeepsme]

​@@PhoenicopterusRPanty and Stocking?

[@PhoenicopterusR]

@@ItIsTheLordWhoKeepsme With Garterbelt, of course

[@ItIsTheLordWhoKeepsme]

@@PhoenicopterusR you like the show too?

[@PhoenicopterusR]

@someonethatyouwishyouknew1027 it's been a while since I last watched it, but I remember it being really up there on my "good show" list. Feels rare to stumble on another P&S fan.

[@KiyoshiArts]

This in my opinion is why I prefer shows like the Owl House. I enjoy watching a plot and even more love the character development

[@christopherrichards2350]

I’m a big fan of The Owl House as well

[@jturner2577]

I love the Owl House too.

[@frankwest5388]

I believe this has to do with the fact that “adult animation” is mainly used as a marketing term more than anything else. If you boil it down, the only real difference between adult and non-adult entertainment are the inclusion of specific mostly arbitrary themes like sex, drugs and violence. But that means nothing because if such elements are used in a narrative, there is usually a more PG friendly alternative. Violence is in shows with child audiences like Avatar the last airbender to the degree that it matters for the narrative, teen directed series add some blood and that’s it. The only place to go is to have characters die on screen in a gory way and even around that there are alternatives. This means that if you want to make adult oriented media and sell it as such, you must hyper focus on those themes. Which leads to scenarios where like an edgy 15 year old that thinks they are too mature to enjoy Pokémon and other child friendly media, the creator must constantly yell about how mature it is. But if the only thing you have left is to focus on unnecessarily graphic portrayals of those things you are kind of deadlocking yourself. At that point you either make a porno or keep yelling how mature you are, in other words you make garbage like “Velma” or “Big Mouth” And as we all know, there is nothing more childish than trying to prove your maturity.

[@puyopuyogooey7214]

I think the only adult cartoon show I’ve seen that used it’s “maturity” in a good way was the Amazon series “Invincible” which has a lot of gore, but it uses it to traumatize the main character and show how dangerous his job is rather than just for the sake of shocking the audience.

[@ocboy5163]

Yeah and Velma had the nerve to insult it’s audience (adults) for watching cartoons.

[@freelancerthe2561]

Theres a second problem buried in this too. The vast majority of Adult Animation is Comedy. This is the second half that helped create the feedback loop that basically destroyed things; Because when you think about how Executives think, they don't understand subtly. Ergo, they're more prone to focus on surface level traits, buzz words, and shock value. Its the same thing happening with Movies, with Marvel and DC providing a huge wealth of examples of the whole spectrum of studio influence, and the various ways they screw things up. Starwars if you wanna speed run it. F is for Family is absolutely brilliant. Major story beats are designed to make you uncomfortable (and not in the haha awkward way), by defining grounded, yet significant stakes, and offering just as much drama as it does comedy. And if you're old enough to remember the edges of 70s, the reality of the characters hits even harder. Its also why the raunchy humor manages to work; as its still in line with the "saying the quiet part out loud" of a situation. Big Mouth's biggest failure is that the raunchiness IS the joke. And its the only joke it knows how to tell. Mentioned on another channel was that last few years was the "year?s" of "Generational Trauma". As in every big family animated feature pivoted from having a defined antagonist, to "everything is screwed up, because of someone's well intended, but poorly thought out decision". On its own that wouldn't had been a problem.... but the fact they all did the same thing at the same time, caused a flash point of rapid burn out on the idea. Raunchy humor has a similar problem, but was a slower burn. Meanwhile, Anime is kicking the west to the curb across multiple genres. Whats funny is that both industries have similar approaches on paper; churn out as much as you can, as fast as you can. The difference mostly boils down to Anime being treated as an art style, capable of doing almost any genre; where as western animation thinks animation IS a genre, and that its synonymous to comedy. Look at modern shows aimed at kids and teens. At some level, they're almost universally started as or pitched like a comedy. But unlike adult animation being almost exclusively comedy, many of the best "kids" shows either employ multi-tiered writing, or inject a healthy amount of drama into the mix. Many older family sitcoms did this as well; occasionally dipping into the sadness pool to make a point, or flesh out the characters more. When looking back on those shows, its the dramatic moments that tend to stick out in people's minds the most. Juxtaposition works. There are times where a single character moment can override multiple season's worth of annoyance toward; which modern shows and movies now try to weaponize at every opportunity. Another angle to get more perspective is all the Anime to Live action adaptions that were driven by western/Hollywood studios, especially in the last decade and a half. Multiple stories which were a originally a meditation on an idea, stripped of all those meditative elements, and forced into the mold of an A to B action film. Even the Video game adaptions see major changes to characters that completely change the dynamic of the story, and breaking it in the process. Then theres comic book adaptations, which were the original template for action movies, and commonly having some form of the A to B action plot. Its here the wide spectrum of quality of writers is most apparent. When the writers are good at the kind of story at hand, you get a good story that explores some aspect of some idea. When they aren't.... the story is terrible. And if whoever is helming the adaption fails to understand either the source material, or the medium/format its being translated to, you get movies like The Last air bender, Starwars Episode 8 (which I can't even be bothered to remember the title of), Legendary's Monsterverse.... the list is quite long. It bothers me how the early 90s was both the height and chasm of "mature" animation. Even more ironic (or maybe appropriate) is how MTV was at the forefront for shows that weren't basically imported anime. Daria, The Head, The Maxx, Aeon Flux, Downtown. Then theres the "Kid's shows" that were way too mature for their target audience, and still question how they ever got past BSNP- with the top of the list by a wide margin being Ren and Stimpy. And I'm pretty sure we all know where Bevis and Butthead is in all of this. I'd go further and state that CN's Original cartoons line up are better written then most adult comedies are today. I don't fell like this is just an opinion either. And I'm not talking about the jokes specifically. On a technical level, the scripts are better put together, the story flows from event to event better, and the plot is more coherent..... And I say that last one knowing how low that bar is. Honestly the high water mark for this decade has got to be Invincible. It manages to avoid all the pit falls common to western animation AND live action movies, by using ever aspect of itself with high competence. All the violence, while extreme, is never gratuitous (IE it always serves some purpose, either in setting up expectations, or driving home a point), the approach to the story and visual directing is top tier, the plot is coherent, the stakes are both easily understood and never over the top, the characters still feel like people despite relatively simple archetypes, the motivations are logical (if imperfect), its a better meditation on "what does it take to BE a super hero" then anything the DCCU has done in its run, it shows the consequences of a world if it had real super heros fighting all the time, and does it without using the damaged hero archetype Marvel's CU relies heavily on to drive story. Its not a Comedy by default, its not cynical about itself (even when thats what it wants you to think), and it leverages animation in a way to make a script that would otherwise been made for live action, work in a way that it could NEVER pull off if it were a live action. Whatever flaws can be brought up about it, the whole makes up for it in spades. Think about that. Its not just adult animation thats having a major problem. Here we have an example of show that, by every right, feels like it could had been a live action, yet executed itself in a way that most live action shows of its type WISH they could accomplish.

[@freelancerthe2561]

@@ocboy5163 Thats because Velma, as a show, is cynicism incarnate. To the point where the glimmers of competent writing feel like a total accident.

[@frankwest5388]

@@puyopuyogooey7214 yes and no while it does have some blood and slightly distrubing content, Invincible's level of violence doesn't exceed that of what most teen audiences would be comfortable with. So once again, "adult animation" is a meaningless inclusion.

[@HeyItsAmper]

I've not watched many adult cartoons (seen a few episodes of plenty here and there, but they rarely hold my attention), but Bob's Burgers stands out as a shining light in the industry for me. The first two seasons I'd probably say are a bit rough, but after that point there's rarely an episode that doesn't make me smile and laugh with how genuinely funny, charming, and wholesome it is.

[@SimpleNobody2420]

I'm praying that the success of Genndy's Primal, Arcane, Castlevania as well as the success of Hazbin Hotel, Helluva Boss, & recently Lackadaisy start finally convincing people on how Adult animation can be great.

[@ChristianFrates1997]

Have you heard of Lobo?

[@sonicfanboy3375]

I think Helluva Boss still falls under the "edgy humor" category of adult animation

[@oksomynameisjeff4212]

​@@sonicfanboy3375yep imma agree as someone who watches helluva boss. Its edgy and inconsistent in writing asf that its just a bad show. The story is just horrible

[@Johnlindsey289]

Undone was a serious work of adult animation

[@NoidoDev]

How much of it has been canceled by now? How much was promoting certain political and cultural values? How many of those shows still looked like child cartoons?

[@r0blin987]

This whole theory that adult animation is for edgy teens, is something I started thinking about very early on. Especially at around 2018-2019 when hazbin hotel was announced. Something was just bothering me- idk something was off like, it’s always the same jokes for adult animations “haha drugs, hihi shrex, haha cursing” Idk man seems sus.

[@marocat4749]

I mran hazbin hotel can be pretty mature and using hell as raunchy sttging but genuinly exploring characters and how people are complicated, like can be not that it has to.

[@strangevol5264]

so, you watch hazbin hotel fully?

[@HappyAspid]

Mt biggest problem with "adult" animations - shitty storyline, ugly, and purely toilet humour.

[@Acidonia150reborn]

Thats all Over Hyped live action shows HBO make too fit this.

[@MicahRaburn]

Though animation wasn't considered a children's only medium in the 1920's and 1930's, it was still looked down upon by the big studios. Walt Disney wasn't the only animator that wanted to make an animated feature film. The Fleischer Brothers wanted to make an animated feature film years before Snow White came out, but Paramount refused to do it cause animation was only good for shorts people watched before the "real movies". Also, Disney made Snow White in such high quality because he wanted it to win the Oscar for best film. But despite the movie's success he was given a "special Oscar" which had a regular sized Oscar with seven smaller Oscars at the side. Again, Hollywood has always undervalued animation.

[@MicahRaburn]

@Will N Wow! Thanks for the info! I knew about the Alice Comedies but didn't know that was his end goal for them.

[@Wolf950]

But let's be honest South Park is a phenomenal show that stays relevant and topical. It uses crude humor to discuss actual topics from many perspectives. I love it. It's like getting to see the mind of the creators and how their opinions have grown and evovled over the years.

[@lanzrabe2914]

One of my favourite adult animation show is Primal from Gendy Tartakovsky. The 2D animation is crisp, dynamic and beautiful and the story is simple yet poignant.

[@ShockwaveFPSStudios]

It’s weird that Adult Cartoons typically make pop culture references where everyone’s sitting and talking, while kids cartoons usually have the characters go into wacky scenarios where it’s rarely set up by a bad guy.

[@BaobhanloreArt]

Though I am really disappointed with how Inside Job, along with so many other great animated shows, got cancelled,part of me is looking forward to how the market is impacted by Hazbin Hotel when that comes out this year. Helluva Boss shook the animation world already, but with a more consistently produced high quality animated show using edgy humor while still telling a fantasy heavy story based series with a built up story and musical based narrative, I'd love to see how other animated shows have their boundaries pushed.

[@MarineSelena]

Bro the public for Helluva boss is literally teenagers, the humor is terrible and the only thing that makes it adult is the cartoonish violence and the swear words

[@hkgc2135]

@@MarineSelena not really they can be emotional at the time

[@MASTEROFEVIL]

The writing for Helluva Boss kind of sucks

[@KnucklesxReala911]

I honestly think the premise is pretty basic, the emotional stuff was written in a way more teen oriented deal than adult as well

[@marocat4749]

The chatacters are pretty goid if maybe could be more done with

[@Gabriel-doodle]

Arguably, kids animation has a much better problem where they are more about trends, like the 80’s toy based shows and the 2010’s over arcing plot.

[@Starheart.777]

I think shows like Bobs Burgers can have a massive impact in the space of animation and adult animation. It’s approach is far more wholesome than pretty much anything else I’ve seen from an animated sitcom style show but still has a way of sliding in cheeky jokes that an adult audience would recognize bearing in mind that kids probably also watch the show too. Idk random thoughts on one of my favorite animations.

[@PrettyRubbish]

I don't get the thought process that children's cartoons deserve less props than adult animation. There's been some really beautiful kids cartoons in recent years.

[@gavinsmith9871]

Avatar the Last Airbender also exists.

[@TeamGalactic-Cyrus]

the amazing world of gumball

[@sonny1524]

Jane and the Dragon!

[@twoczents]

Thank you. Just thank you. As series like Gumball does its adult humor ten times better than most of these shows. Also, I honestly miss shows like The Boondocks and Moral Orel simply because they were animated series that I can actually call adult even if they both mostly centered children(hey, Gumball does that as well). Also, I kinda have to bring up that a lot of cartoon shorts back in the day were very........ *minstrel show-esque*

[@AlfurAldric2211]

Or balls-to-the-wall crazy yet somehow smart despite feeling stupid like... Xavier: Renegade Angel.

[@snowdude8583]

​@@AlfurAldric2211 man, I'm glad that show is getting more attention,

[@aaronluisdelacruz4212]

Remember, when an anime aimed for teens and young adults that tackles themes like slavery, death, corruption better than an actual adult show that only has fart jokes, swearing and unnecessary use of gore and thinks of itself as an adult show. Then we have a problem. Edit: can you make a review of Zoids franchise (except Fuzors cause that's a bad one)

[@nialltealeaf275]

May I posit a theory? Children's shows take their themes seriously in the West because the Cast & Crew know that those films will automatically reach wider audiences, in many cases it forces those productions to stick to universalist morals and ethics. However, the disparity between "Adult" Animation in the West and Anime in the East is down to cultural exposure. In Japan, Anime has the same reputation that "Adult" Animation has, but the content in many of the best anime and manga feel earnest, truthful, raw even. In the West, however, anime may be a niche, but the "adult" animation made in the West deliberately saturates stories in bathos, forces romantic ties between characters that don't grow into those roles, and even what little substance the material provided is subsumed in either a) authorial intent (Rick & Morty, Velma), b) executive meddling (The Simpsons, Family Guy), or c) trying to get everyone to watch, only for no-one to care because the soul of the material has been repeatedly butchered (Simpsons, Family Guy, Rick & Morty, etc). The most resonant examples of solid Western "adult" animation range from absurdist (ATHF, Xavier: Renegade Angel), deliberately controversial to prove a point (South Park, Moral Orel), or have a deep desire to expand on themes from older children's shows (Venture Bros., Space Ghost Coast-to-Coast). There's even the rare show that manages to prove a solid spiritual successor to an older "adult" show (Futurama).

[@captainvaliant]

I'm still sad about the cancellation of Final Space and Inside Job, both were shows that went against the formula and had so much potential but were thrown away by their companies. I'm specially pissed about Final Space, since it was a passion project from its creator and he put so much love into the series... He's still trying to fight to bring his show back even to this day. I think that, with all that's going on we're entering an era of animation where indie shows rise in popularity since companies can't be trusted. There are some like Helluva Boss that are getting successful and I would love to see other indie projects get that much love.

[@NoHandle44]

They heard the phrase "No such thing as bad press" and decided to deal exclusively with that. Because it gets a lot of attention and money for little to no effort at all. It's probably the same reason why every pokemon game made in recent years is always so terrible despite the expected backlash from fans the company gets every single year. The fans hate them, but they still jeep buying the games. So there's no reason for Gamefreak to put any actual effort since they can make the same profits even if they do such a bad job.

[@NoHandle44]

I heard that helluva boss has issues with their character development. Like, even Loona isn't that interesting because, despite being perfect furry bait to draw in viewers, her actual character is boring and not fleshed out, which makes her and others wasted potential. I don't watch the show, it's just what ice heard others say about it.

[@captainvaliant]

@@NoHandle44 I mean, the first season was great and had lots of character development for most of the cast, we even got an insight on Loona in "Spring Broken". The only character I feel is underdeveloped would be Millie, but the rest of the cast all have their moments. Now, the second season... It still has great character moments, but personally I don’t like the way some things are being handled. Thought, I still recommend it.

[@chocoabyss1054]

Gamefreak definitely is putting effort in their games, they just need to give themselves more time. Which, to be fair, is a bit hard, because there's a bunch of merchandise and a new season of the show waiting on the release of the game. Basically gamefreak should just spend more time on the games

[@elchanchopato9601]

Speaking of indie projects, you should really check the upcoming Boxtown.

[@annana6098]

A juvenile obsession with the taboo. I SAID THE THING I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO SAY, LAUGH! The punchline is always sex, or hate. If sex isn't taboo and you're not full of hate and resentment, it falls completely flat. So it really does land in edgy teen territory, they're too young to do a lot of things, and they're angry about it. A show can contain jokes about sex and resentment and still be a good show if it has more substance than that.

[@AlfurAldric2211]

Or sprout racial and ethnic slurs whenever they meet someone different because haha, look it's a N word.

[@beauwilliamson3628]

When you mentioned the Simpsons being the start of the modern adult cartoons, I immediately thought of Spike and Mike animation festival. That was a short animation compilation that would travel to rep cinemas and it was super popular. The Simpsons shorts originally were one of the fan favorites here before they were made into a series. That yearly compilation was one of the profit makers for rep cinemas, and between the buzz around he money and the inspiration to young artists to take a stab at animation, I think that and some other similar compilations of the time were a huge starting point for what came soon after.

[@rav_productions2136]

I've asked my mom's boyfriend this same exact question and he gave me a answer I wasn't expecting, he told me that after a long day of work and just dealing with the stress of everyday life you just want to laugh at something stupid, raunchy or offensive, well that doesn't excuse bad writing or unlikeable characters I do get the appeal.

[@joevaghn457]

Based

[@zzamorano1717]

If he want to watch something like THAT, then why not watch porn, that's sounds tailor-made for him.

[@rav_productions2136]

@@zzamorano1717 Bruh that response is the equivalent of family guy writing, forced, not funny, and pointless

[@zzamorano1717]

@@rav_productions2136 it's a far better excuse and reason then just spouting 😭"I'm stressed out from everyday life and I can't think of constructive ways of entertaining myself other and want something that's not challenging nor questions my own worldview or standards", that and overall mindset that revolves around this is the reason why we have companies making terrible shows and continue to do so without any lack of accountability or direct criticism. At least with porn, it gives you stimulation and it doesn't have pretend to be "mature" despite the content. Plus, porn can be very varied, it can be live-action, it could be animated or can be simply drawing, it can also be tailored to appeal to both genders and have all type of subject matter and I don't just mean the sex itself. Whoever this guy is, he sounds like a insecure, whining, sociopathic, imaginative, and boring person.

[@rav_productions2136]

@@zzamorano1717 bruh if you don't sit your goofy ass down and get off that fucking high horse, if you have a problem with anyone enjoying family guy, or anything you deem "stupid" then your the dam problem

[@1805movie]

_Fritz the Cat_ also sharped the perception of adult animation: being the first animated film to be rated X. Whether it's considered "niche" or not, it did help contribute.

[@Sailormac2]

Oh, hellz, yes. Ralph Bakshi is a HUGE part of the animation for adults story. Sure, his stuff was laden with crude humor, but he also had moments of sharp social commentary. He also had films that aimed higher - like American Pop (a sort of history of 20th century America through music) and his attempt at The Lord of the Rings (the very definition of noble failure).

[@Maerahn]

Any I wish you'd mentioned? Heck yeah! 'Adventure Time' and 'The Amazing Adventures of Gumball!' Both were staples on the Cartoon Network channel when my son was growing up, and so, yeah, I guess marketed primarily towards children - but they certainly covered adult themes, just in a really mature, smart and emotional way, and all while being hilariously bonkers. They were funny as hell, but they also didn't shy away from darker, adult topics, and yet still managed to tackle them sensitively and with nuance. I've actually CRIED at some episodes of both shows. In fact, I'm going to stick my neck out and say that, without 'Adventure Time,' there would be no 'Bojack Horseman,' since the former was doing a lot of what the latter have done in terms of emotional themes like mental illness, loneliness and toxic relationships years earlier. Seriously, if you've never seen either of them, I highly recommend searching them up and giving them a go. On your first viewings you'll most likely go "What the hell am I watching here?" because they are VERY surreal, but stick with them and you'll soon see just how damn smart and lovingly crafted they are.

[@Roll-Penut]

This is an awesome way to make long form video content. I loved seeing that animation come to life over the course of the video

[@TrepidDestiny]

Another "adult animation" left off your list was Invincible. That show, while having the animation style of DC cartoons (for obvious reasons), is still an adult oriented cartoon. Lots of violence, blood, and nuance. It's a show telling a serious story, with a few lighthearted scenes thrown in. I LOVE animation, definitively more so than live action, simply because it gives the writers and artists so much room to create a unique world not tied to the limitations of physical actors, props, bad CGI, and green screen.

[@gryphonvert]

Yeah, it would be interesting -- even as just a coda -- to discuss the success of shows like Invicible, and Critical Role. (I think those two stand out as Western shows that are based on stories already told in other media.)

[@srehh5529]

A lot of DC animated movies are aimed for adults too. They got the blood, sex and nuance. The thing is they are direct-to-video so most people outside of DC fans wouldn't notice them. My favorite DC animated films are Under the Red Hood, Flashpoint Paradox and the ones focusing on Constatine.

[@Johnlindsey289]

What about spawn?

[@Gensolink]

Invincible has to be one of my favourite super hero, he evolves, learns, makes a lot of mistakes and consequences unfold. Only thing I don't like about the show is the depiction of Amber not like og amber was an especially deep character but she wasnt so unlikeable. Spoiler for comic: and I actually loved when Mark and her were still on a good terms after breaking up and he genuinely was pissed to see her new boyfriend beat her up, that comic had such a nice cast

[@crazydragy4233]

I feel it really weird to point out sex and violence as part of maturity because every bad immature "adult" shoe defaults to them. Feels kinda like the point of the video was mossed

[@kurapikakurta1997]

This! There’s a reason why teenagers/adults enjoy things like gravity falls and bluey more than it’s intended audience. An adult cartoon should be a cartoon with themes less suitable for kids, yet it should also be enjoyable.

[@jeremyallen5974]

Avatar and The Clone Wars: hey, kids! Wanna watch cartoon characters commit war crimes?

[@seantaggart7382]

​@@jeremyallen5974 mlp: wanna watch a centaur GET BODIED BY A PONY?

[@_.hybrids._1680]

@@jeremyallen5974 not to mention that they humanize the fire nation which sends the message that they’re humans that doesn’t know the truth outside of propaganda and the fact that they have propaganda, brainwashing, and gaslighting as an entire episode (“there’s no war in Ba sing se 😃”)

[@jeremyallen5974]

@seantaggart7382 I'm still traumatized over the yellow one straight up wrecking that bears shit With moves like that you'd think she was performing an X Ray attack on him

[@seantaggart7382]

@@jeremyallen5974 Fluttershy: oops sorry! Me: yeah Its just AGGRESSIVE therapy

[@arsenalx7]

Absolutely amazing breakdown! Can't wait to watch the videos you come up with!

[@krillanr]

Man, being 12 years old and watching adult swim, talk about euphoria. Hitting the age where you crave grittier shows, and anime being right there. Beautiful

[@negirno]

You forgot to mention Ralph Bakshi and Don Bluth. They also did a lot for adult animation fun the late sixties onwards.

[@Dreamfox-df6bg]

Especially Ralph Bakshi. Come on, the first X-Rated animated movie is not worth mentioning here?

[@TPoyser]

When did Don Bluth make Adult Animation? Most of what he made was for a Family Audience except for Titan A.E. which made more for 8 to 13 year old boys

[@PeterBognar]

@@TPoyser Check out Fritz the Cat :-D

[@pheunithpsychic-watertype9881]

And this one adult animated show from the 70s. I don't want to say thr name because obscurity saves it from being rebooted

[@SunnysFilms]

@@PeterBognar Don Bluth was not involved in Fritz the Cat.

[@bleeborg]

I was literally thinking about this topic yesterday. I completely relate to it. Like, I loved Family Guy in middle school but by the time I was a sophomore in high school I had pretty much gotten sick of animated sitcoms since the shock value had worn off and I realized that these kinds of shows had nothing to offer me aside from bad words and suggestive themes.

[@celisewillis]

and racism! and anti-semitism. and sexism. just all the isms lol

[@CaedenV]

2 main reasons 1) they are darker and more edgy versions of what we watched during our most influential part of our lives. Futurama, family guy and the like were the edgey, funny, shock value shows when we were in highschool and college. So more modern shows are trying to piggyback on that style and nostalgia value cranking it up more and more over time. And while the vast majority of my animation viewing tends to be more high brow... Even I can enjoy an episode of some pretty awful "adult" animated shows from time to time. 2) we are freaking tired. Animation is a very easy to follow medium that we can watch half burned out after focusing all day. It is the beer and carbs version of media. It is kinda funny, kinda relatable, and if we miss something it doesn't matter. All that said... I can't watch that kind of stuff all that much. What I really enjoy are shows that "say" something. Which brings a whole different level of adult animation. Something like samurai chomloo is such an odd combo of smart social commentary while also having some shock and awe value. It is sort of the perfect balance between immature spectical of western animation, and skillful artistry and storytelling of eastern animation. Id love to see more stuff like this, but there just isn't that much demand for something that takes that much effort to create.

[@longbongbigdongbonkey_kong]

The Midnight Gospel was highly underrated and is without a doubt the most "mature" adult animated show oriented for people asking deep questions. Each ep has bits and pieces of Duncan Trussell interviewing different interesting people. Highlight in my opinion was Damien Echols of the West Memphis Three, and his practicing of mysticism. Animated by the exceptional Pendleton Ward of Adventure Time fame. 10/10 I'll never forgive Netflix for the cancellation.

[@Lumberjack_king]

It’s definitely aimed towards people who think they are “mature” but aren’t like people teenagers who think they are to old for cartoons(there is some teens that actually watch good shows like murder drones)

[@ratticusmaximus3710]

Murder Drones is my favorite series on KZbin rn, it's really good, I personally like how it has almost no commentary/stuff about real life like politics (I love high fantasy 👍) and how it is it's own little world in a way.

[@KickUpHammyDude]

Yeah I discussed this in a community post so I’ll give the short of it from what I’ve seen. Most Adult animated shows just cater a criteria than actually try to stand out and get viewer’s appreciation. Which just does not come out right no matter how many bullets you mark. Adult animation is not that!

[@blimp..]

To this day Ren And Stimpy is up there as one of my favorite animations ever.

[@gtf234]

Also worth noting that a lot of those early 90s adult focused cartoons following the Simpsons' debut have something in common: Klasky-Csupo. The Simpsons' early seasons through 1990, Rugrats, Duckman, Aah Real Monsters- all Klasky-Csupo productions. All those shows were either expressly for adults (like Duckman) or tackled lots of subjects that meant for the adults watching with their kids

[@redpanda6497]

How do you pronounce it? It looks weirdly Hungarian, but it probably isn't and I have no idea how it sounds in English. It messes with my amatour bilingual brain. lol Edit: I searched it up and he really came from where I live. Interesting.

[@gtf234]

@@redpanda6497 Yeah, Gábor Csupó is Hungarian, he was born in Budapest; at the time he was married to Arlene Klasky, thus their studio's name. Rugrats was heavily inspired by the birth of their first child, which is why many of the themes in the show often connected back to the parental anxieties in some way rather than just being solely about babies having imaginative misadventures. Didi Pickles was in many ways a caricature of Arlene, who was a very anxious and protective new mother, and often heavily relied on self-proclaimed gurus and baby psychologists for guidance (prompting co-writer and co-producer Paul Germain to create Dr Lipschitz as a jab at her; Germain and Klasky basically rarely agreed on the creative direction of the show, Csupo was regularly mediating between them).

[@redpanda6497]

@@gtf234 Cool. Thanks for the infos.

[@ziarasekhi6238]

Awesome video Fionapollo. The main factors that I've observed when it comes to status and reality of animation are economics, culture and the maturity of the medium and its perception of it. As an animator myself, I love how many of these segments were discussed in this video, but I do see that: 1: Animation is and has always been an expensive and competitive business and art form. Unless our world implements a cooperative economy, shows will mainly be created around making profit unless produced by talented and passionate developers. 2: Film overall has been given the generational treatment and it is only now thanks to the accessibility of the internet that many notice the poor artistic quality in a lot of releases and how that is affecting their reception. It's possible that with time film and in turn animation may mature to value artistic quality if that is the main driver for sales and profit, but time will tell. 3. We are already seeing that the shows of the greatest artistic quality are able to stand the test of time and thus future generations will appreciate it. When the money no longer flows we will see the mountains of mediocre stories only survive on short-term solutions until they are forgotten, and the shows that are exceptional will live on. So many timeless films from nearly 20 years ago are being rewatched for nostalgia and being introduced to new generations that fall in love with those gems of artistic creation. Perhaps in time, our cultures will value that art. Personally many of the "adult" sit-com shows are not for me. But good stories are good stories. It's why the story of Gilgamesh lives on 4000 years later, its a good story.

[@unicornlover1237]

I'm really happy that you stated that adult animation gained a "raunchy and needlessly edgy" misconception from cartoon and non-cartoon fans alike, rather than just simply state "adult animation is trash and here's why!" I spent my entire teen years listening to people on this platform complain about adult animation problems *since 2016.* Within the cartoon community especially, many fans were obsessed with wanting cartoons to be edgy, story-driven and dramatic to prove that cartoons weren't just kids stuff, while simultaneously dismissing many adult cartoons as "raunchy, episodic, and not worth anyone's time." (In fact, I think exceptions like Castlevania and Invincible were more popular outside the cartoon community than within it.) Nowadays, animation is such a widespread, mainstream medium that the only "animation is for kids-related" issue I can think of is that Miraculous Ladybug was originally intended as a series for teenagers, but was retooled for a younger audience when networks weren't interested. (Then again, a KZbinr by the name of Alex Meyers did a video on ML that gained 3,284,344 views as of now, so there's that.) Let's also keep in mind that just because Velma wasn't well-received, that doesn't mean *every* adult cartoon is like Velma. (This last sentence is directed towards the comments, not the video.)

[@cybertramon0012]

I haven't seen many comments saying that all adult cartoons are like Velma. Usually, they're talking about how bad Velma is alone. I'd say Velma is the traits associated with adult cartoons made really, really bad. Even with how cruel and gross Family Guy can get, at least it can still be funny. Like when Peter gets his head smashed between two logs for a free hat, and you see him afterwards with a messed up face and his free hat. Rick and Morty has a rude main character, but Rick proves sympathetic after we find out he's like that because an alternate Rick killed his family, and he went looking for him until he gave up. Velma is cruel, gross, pointlessly sexual, and the characters are rude and unsympathetic. If the thing most people liked about your main character is when she gets hit by a car out of sheer dislike, you need to step back and rethink.

[@kylebrady969]

Castlevania is (was) a long-running game series, so yeah. I don't doubt it being popular outside just the cartoon community

[@_.hybrids._1680]

Just to let you know, using Castlevania and Invincible for examples is a weak point because they were already established before the shows. Like someone said, Castlevania was already a game and Invincible was already a comic meaning that people grew up with them and they were appealing to kids/teens first.

[@HarlanDaleAbsher]

This is why I've really been enjoying Bob's Burgers, it doesn't shy away from a poop joke but it's comedy also isn't about making fun of entire groups of people or specifically attacking a certain celebrity, it's comedy that could be a little more relatable, slice of life kind of stuff. You can't make your bills, you're awkward at school, your musical but nobody understands you, you just wanna set the world on fire but you don't wanna disappoint your family, that kind of relatable stuff. I grew up on Family Guy and South Park, those came out when I was like 10 years old, and as an adult in my 30s I find them far less funny, South Park especially. And there is no power in this universe that can convince me that shows like Big Mouth are designed for adults.

[@Nova-rd3hi]

Can somebody seriously point out how basically every western adult cartoon is a comedy? Like, besides a lot of the superhero animated movies like The Dark Knight Returns, even the few cartoons that aren't sitcoms like Futurama or Archer are still primarily comedies that rarely take themselves seriously. You'd think there would be a greater variety of genres and tones with adult cartoons than children's cartoons considering there's basically nothing you can't show or talk about in adult entertainment 😅.

[@karolinakuc4783]

True the only mature, adult animation that are not comedies I can mention are Castelvania, Blood of Zeus, Invincible and Arcane.

[@PhoenicopterusR]

Comedy is probably an easier bar for entry, if I had to guess

[@PhoenicopterusR]

​@karolinakuc4783 you can add Primal to that list too.

[@Johnlindsey289]

See Spawn TAS