Why Aren't You Nihilists? | Luke - AZ | Atheist Experience 24.11

[@puckerings]

"As a Christian, battery acid is worse for me than apple juice" is one of the most hilariously dishonest statements made by callers on this show.

[@CronoXpono]

It’s fucking hilarious. And it’s also infuriating, to think someone with ZERO demonstrable proof can make such intellectually condescending sneers at OBVIOUS FACTS ABOUT REALITY, ffs 🤦‍♂️.

[@oggyoggy1299]

Christians are SUPER sensitive to battery acid.

[@scottjohnson7248]

@@oggyoggy1299 True. That's why I keep a supply near my front door to ward away religious solicitors

[@kellyrestiaux9846]

​@@oggyoggy1299 They are pretty Basic.

[@fgaron2000]

One of the most dishonest callers ever.

[@morpheas768]

I thought so too, guy couldnt admit/concede anything.

[@Irongaint]

That’s what theists are!! Dishonest

[@themerge3933]

Simply dumb beyond words.

[@tessalyyvuo1667]

Yeah, he seemed to had made up his mind to not understand what Matt was saying.

[@timalimdim]

So is this the same guy who has been calling for years? Or are there just dozens of intellectually dishonest Christians who sound (and reason) exactly alike?

[@Nickesponja]

0:56 "I don't think that's remotely what I said" Every religious discussion ever.

[@guytheincognito4186]

Sad but true.

[@SpawnFanboy]

You just hit that nail with a massive hammer. Lol

[@shroomer8294]

A lot of discussions about religion feel like the Patrick and Rayman wallet bit from Spongebob. “Then this is your wallet.” “It’s not my wallet.”

[@jackdaniels9179]

This caller sounds exactly like EVERY internet christian.

[@roqsteady5290]

Maybe they are all cloned in the same vat.

[@rickkybobby8118]

agree. I've had this exact conversation at least half a dozen times

[@sdwone]

Yeap... Part of the Hive Mind! Who gets completely perplexed by minds outside of that context! Fundamental Christianity is a cult! Nothing more nothing less... And anything outside of the cult is a threat that needs to be either converted or destroyed!

[@trustprojects]

Yep. Dishonest to a staggering degree when confronted with anything that threatens the continued existence of their illusion. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@kenchristiansen2080]

Why are Christian's not nihilist? As Matt points out, this life doesn't matter to them. It is the next one that is important.

[@robertallan6373]

What a wast of a good life.

[@Jason918114]

I remember reading a very confusing book Nietzsche wrote where he mentions Christian Nihilism a lot. Now I understand what he meant by that.

[@gid519]

@@Jason918114 Same here!!! Never knew what it meant until I study religion (and became an atheist while doing so).

[@dekuboidonut4552]

Actually Christians believe that what you do in this life is significant for your entry into the next one

[@kenchristiansen2080]

@@dekuboidonut4552 not really. They believe the ONLY to get into the good "real" life, is believing in something unjustified. You can do anything, and just ask for forgiveness from the magical super entity.

[@MCodger]

SUCH a relief to finally hear Luke getting so thoroughly OWNED. Various hosts have given this tool far too much slack. Luke is more of a deceiver than the devil he believes is real.

[@nazarsoroka23]

baller comment right here.

[@davidh5020]

I hate how Christians use "Nihilist" as a insult, and use their lack of understanding of this philosophical position to mean it is a bad thing.

You don't know what nihilism or atheism are. You are a dumbass anti-Christian troll and believer in a magician.

[@bobgarrett7134]

It's a dreadful philosophy. Life is infinitely purposeful and meaningful.

@@bobgarrett7134 It's not dreadful, it's reality that you can't comprehend with anti-Christian religious beliefs.

[@Ignirium]

I think Theist are naturally lead into Nihilistic thinking/position given their religious mental models which they use to evaluate everything, from themselves, people and reality. From his own model of understanding, Luke said "If the foundation is subjective, the answers are subjective." (you can't know objects? you can't have truth/trust of things existing?) So without that model (subjectivism) he only sees nihilism as a possibility, that's how I've come to understand Theistic thinking from their perspective. It's like they only use subjectivity on its own to make sense of things in reality... and objects or objectivity confuse them, hence flawed questions like "What's your basis for objective morality" I find it funny how life has evolved in tandem with the natural world, developed the means to use sense perception to make sense of the physicality around us; seeing, moving, judging, approximating, and we invent ways to refuse this is what we are doing lol. It's like they are convinced they cannot use reason or make reasonable inferences, and extend that courtesy to us.

[@Ignirium]

@ It's exactly dreadful, that's the purpose of imagining heaven, no more dread.

[@pokerchannel6991]

The caller was completely dishonest.

[@themplar]

Arent they pretty much always? They use dishonesty (faith) as a method to believe things, and will defend it against all reason.

[@ArtisticLayman]

How so?

[@pokerchannel6991]

@@ArtisticLayman playing dumb. . . . obscuring the question. The guy knew that his planned arguments were falling apart and played dumb "where did chess come from" The guy is like a slimy squid and tried to cloud the waters with a spew of murky ink to try to get away.

[@ArtisticLayman]

@@pokerchannel6991 It's not my fault that Matt uses terrible analogies.

[@pokerchannel6991]

​@@ArtisticLayman ok dude. hey. way to double down. That is wut happens with lies . . . when you first began to deceive, continued lies must you weave.

[@pezfam]

Matt’s impassioned speech at the end is one of his best.

[@TheActualPES]

pezfam I am writing it out and putting it on my wall. No joke - more inspiration for truly respecting what we have all around us every day than any of those inspirational memes that keep getting tossed around the Internet.

[@ArtisticLayman]

​@@TheActualPES Straw-man arguments are very popular to you atheists I see.

[@ArtisticLayman]

@John Wood It's a terrible analogy especially since it is an argument for intelligent design.

[@noco3126]

@@ArtisticLayman It's doesn't support intelligent design. It becomes pretty obvious you see what you want to see, hear what you want to hear.

[@TheActualPES]

ArtisticLayman I get the impression you don’t understand straw man arguments, as I don’t understand why you’re directing that at me.

[@NobodyNowhereKnowhow]

This caller’s hostility is only overshadowed by his stupidity.

[@pauldingsdale6779]

Not stupid. Just a smug asshole

[@oggyoggy1299]

A lethal combination.

[@oggyoggy1299]

This sits on the internet forever more to continually embarrass Loopy Luke into eternity. I hope he comes back here to see what the world thinks of him.

[@dmath5964]

I love Don’s savage troll laughs when callers contradict themselves

[@Ploskkky]

Luke is not interested in a real conversation. He always calls in with gotcha's, but he always fails miserably.

[@LettersAndNumbers300]

Matt gives a perfect answer, and you can just hear the whoosh.

[@Biomechanic2010]

Kinda wish Matt would call the caller out as a coward as soon as he started deflecting away from the conclusions of the analogy. That's a decision to not face what you're scared of, my dude, and that's an act of cowardice.

[@seadog2969]

This is one of those guys who confuses deflection with logical analysis.

[@ArtisticLayman]

How so?

[@woolvey]

@@ArtisticLayman I think the clearest example of this, was to ask where the chess board came from. They were speaking specifically about morality and Matt used the chess game as an analogy, purely to demonstrate how you can have a subjectively-agreed goal and objective measures to meet that goal. An analogy only needs to be comparable as far as the point of comparison. It can't be identical in all respects or it would not be an analogy; it would be the exact same thing. The caller asked where the board came from as a way of saying the board is analogous to the universe and the board was created, therefore the universe was. This demonstrates either an intentional deflection to universe origins, which is a completely different topic than anything previously discussed on the call, or a complete misunderstanding of how analogies work. The discussion of morality was in itself a deflection from the initial top of nihilism. At no point did the caller make any direct counter argument to any of Matt's points.

[@radishpineapple74]

@@woolvey Excellent response, very well done.

[@VoodooV1]

Caller didn’t care about being correct, all he cared about was trying to trip up Matt. Caller had the 5 Ds of dodgeball down pat.

[@johnd.shultz7423]

Just a childish emotional response to something a believer cant fathom =living life without some cosmic daddy or rulebook to guide their behavior...Sad....

[@SaturnSnapple]

I’m actually glad we get callers like this sometimes. It’s a chance to have Matt explain in the simplest terms some interesting concepts, and I actually feel like I understand them better.

[@wunnell]

It sounds very much like this guy just wants Matt to accept a particular label so that he can apply his prepared criticism of that label as he defines it. He's not interested in discussion actual positions.

[@johnb2649]

I really learned a great deal from this clip. Discuss and agree upon a Subjective goal. Next to establish concrete, objective steps so as to work toward and obtain the goal . Brilliant presentation. I will listen to this again and again.

[@L_o_c_a_l_G_u_y]

Same. I had to pause it and think through what the caller was saying so I could fully appreciate what Matt was saying. Moral subjectivity has absolte rules. Just like how a tolerant society must be intolerant of intolerance.

[@Cyba_IT]

I swear to non-existent gods that if I'd been talking to all these idiots for so long I'd either be a heavy alcoholic or certifiably insane. Much much much respect to Matt, Don and the crew for fighting for humanity's sanity. Thanks guys.

[@ArtisticLayman]

If nihilism is true then there is no such value as sanity.

[@BardicLiving]

@@ArtisticLayman If it leads to someone experiencing less pleasure than it would be undesirable on that basis.

[@ArtisticLayman]

@@BardicLiving Does that also apply to sadists?

[@BardicLiving]

@@ArtisticLaymanIt would be desirable for them; for the people they're hurting it would be undesirable.

[@kayelbee3798]

Cyba IT why would you swear to non existent gods when the existent god is available? Just silly.

[@TVeldhorst]

The apple juice vs battery acid analogy was apparently to difficult for this person. Lol

[@starfishsystems]

Oh no, he totally go it. He just tried to find a dishonest way to respond. That didn't go so well either.

[@jamesrobbins1243]

Matt walks him through the chessboard analogy. "Where'd the chessboard come from?"

[@alejandrovillalba3143]

@FiniteAutomaton The discussion was about the objective assessments you can do once you agreed on a subjective goal. Yes, there can't be chess whitout a creator because it is a man-made thing. The universe,in the other hand, is a natural thing, according with the evidence science have collected, time started with the universe. So, this idea of "everything has a cause therefore..." might not apply, because the principle of cause and effect is inherently time-related and there was no time before the big bang. The universe could not need a cause under that frame. If you think it does need it and that cause is the God you believe in you have to provide evidence for it. You are welcome to do it. Unless of course you only were being sarcastic

[@Dr.TJ1]

@FiniteAutomaton So you're saying humans created the universe because we know humans create chessboards? Please explain how humans, who we are fairly certain have only been around for 200,000 years or so created something that has been around for 13.8 billion years. Good luck.

[@Dr.TJ1]

@FiniteAutomaton Your statement is exactly the kind of statement a theist would make to try to prove there is a god (and I do mean exactly). To mock something or someone appropriately, you need exaggeration and absurdity and you need to take it to a totally different place, not somewhere that millions of theists would agree with.

[@Dr.TJ1]

@FiniteAutomaton How is "Luke figured it all out" hyperbolic? Don't you understand that Luke really does think he has it all figured out and was calling in to present a "gotcha" to the show?

[@Dr.TJ1]

@FiniteAutomaton For your reply to be humorous, it has to be an exaggeration of what the caller thought, not a repeat of what the caller thought and definitely not a stock phrase. Get it? Something along the lines of "Know it alls like Luke are really annoying to those of us who actually do know it all". Take it to the absurd to be funny. Here endith the lesson.

[@geezzerboy]

Luke just has to be right, he believes he will drop dead from shame if he was ever wrong, about anything. Sad life.

[@joegillian314]

People who complain about nihilism never bother to understand what they're even speaking against, and so they always make this conflation between moral nihilism and philosophical nihilism.

[@memitim171]

Ve are nihilists Lebowski, we believe in nuzthing. Nuzthing!

[@juangarza320]

It's a meme. It's a bad word and therefore bad.

[@joegillian314]

@blah blah The belief that life is inherently positive is actually natalism (the opposite of which is antinatalism, but let's not go there, lol).

[@teamatfort444]

@@memitim171 they’re nihilists, there’s nothing to be afraid of

[@memitim171]

@@teamatfort444 Unless they come back and cut off your johnson!

[@SupaSal62]

Caller tried a gotcha. Gets owned. Oops.

[@ArtisticLayman]

How was I owned?

[@Richard-jm3um]

@@ArtisticLayman Every single "Gotcha" you tried failed miserably and them Matt got you to admit the weakness of your position... Got owned pretty bad bro...

[@ottonormalverbrauch3794]

@@ArtisticLayman The fact that you didn't even notice it is tale telling of your tunnelvision. Christians adhering to just one book with blinders on and downtalking the posistion of non believers and/or other beliefs could as well, or more so, be considered nihilists.

[@SupaSal62]

ArtisticLayman maybe you should listen back. You got spanked hard.

[@AneurysmXX]

@@ArtisticLayman I'll give you credit for admitting that you are the actual caller, because you are a fucking idiot. "presuming health is good" ok buddy, thanks for proving us right again on how religion is poison.

[@dukeemzworth3005]

The only thing that Luke demonstrated here is that religion is necessarily dishonest. Which is why 'faith' - another form of dishonesty is so important to religions.

[@TrejoDuneSea]

"Where did the chessboard come from?" LMAO

[@Pally-Main]

(Catholic Christian here) 5:39 oh my gosh I saw the trap he was laying as soon as he asked the question and it absolutely killed me inside. Well played Matt, well played.

[@Mike.Muc.3.1415]

This is one of Matt's very best episodes. He is brilliant, highly entertaining and emotional in it and doesn't looks bored by the umpteen variant of the usual standard calls.

[@bct8881]

That's some Neo level dodging by Luke.

[@ArtisticLayman]

How so?

[@bct8881]

@@ArtisticLayman Did you watch the whole video ? If you did,you need to watch it again,but this time pay attention. If you still don't get it second time around,I don't think I can help you. It really is that obvious.

[@ArtisticLayman]

@@bct8881 I'm in the video. If you can't explain what it is then it's not even obvious to you.

[@bct8881]

@@ArtisticLayman You're in it,and you need me to point out where you went wrong ? Okay then. Your first dodge was @ 2:04 when you switched from your failed argument on nihilism to morality because you didn't like where your original argument was going....which was nowhere. You then twisted yourself in knots over what subjective and objective means all in an attempt to avoid answering honestly. Dodging reality is what believers have been trained to do for centuries. It's not your fault.

[@ArtisticLayman]

@@bct8881 I was surprised that Matt admitted to being a nihilist because he completely undermined any argument he had after that. I should have pointed out that a "soft nihilist" is a person who is still in denial on the realities of nihilism, but I didn't think of that soon enough. I had never heard of that distinction before.

[@nathanroe4758]

This kid doesn't listen to anything, when the answers don't fit his script he just goes on to another thing.

[@karlajaeger2082]

Binary thinking ignores reality. Chess is a great example of the opposite. You can win, lose, or stalemate. Some people will never understand how everyone can lose.

[@jpats6124]

How can Matt talk so calmly after this encounter? Love this show.

[@starfishsystems]

These were potentially interesting philosophical questions. Matt clearly digs them! And he's clearly thought about them too. With a more honest caller, it could have been a great exploration of ideas. As it was, Matt had the floor and I thought he acquitted himself with great focus and intelligence. So it wasn't a waste of time. Except for the caller, I guess?

[@juanmacias7667]

the last 5 mins of this is the best thing i have ever heard that describes my view on life, thank you Matt

[@Mikey2313.]

It’s hard for me to comprehend some of the questions these people ask.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

All the great questions have been asked and answered. There is very little left.

[@somewhatinformed1208]

That's why Matt has to explain to them why they asked the question and what the question really means. The callers rarely know the definition of the words they use. It's as if they're casting a spell to make you believe without evidence. And dumbfounded when they're magic doesn't work. But that doesn't stop them from bearing false witness of things they don't understand.

[@ArtisticLayman]

That must be a pretty low bar for you.

[@noco3126]

@@ArtisticLayman Project much?

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Why was Satan owed anything? And why could he reach this world?

[@chrismathis4162]

Just accept the fact that if you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people.

[@christaylor6674]

Matt's patience with this caller was off the chart. He must have eaten some space cakes before the show.

[@GenuinelyQurious]

Those last few minutes!! You know that when the “how dare you” gets dropped, what follows is going to be good.

[@ArtisticLayman]

How dear I disagree with Matt's subjectivism?

[@GenuinelyQurious]

ArtisticLayman His remark has nothing to do with subjectivity, but an unfair assumption many theists (in this case the caller) foist upon anyone who has a world view that isn’t based upon a presupposition of an all powerful creator being. Maybe watch again and see if you can’t pick up something you missed before?

[@warren52nz]

I remember when I was doing my degree, in the Physics Faculty in the toilets someone had written above the toilet paper: *_"Philosophy Degrees... please take one"_*

[@puckerings]

Where did the chessboard come from? Easy answer. It came from the same place your alleged god came from - people invented it.

[@kayelbee3798]

puckerings Thats just silly, god invented people. People invented chessboards. We are made in gods image.

[@rowleyj31]

@@kayelbee3798 can you provide evidence for that claim? Nope. But I can provide evidence that humans created "gods".

[@kayelbee3798]

Jason R I AM the proof. Humans didn’t create god. They just make up stories about god. That’s only because they are creative like god.

[@rowleyj31]

@@kayelbee3798 LMAO!!!!!! You are only evidence that you don't understand the word "evidence". Fuck you are delusionally funny 😂😂😂

[@kayelbee3798]

Jason R YOU don’t know the meaning of evidence. Here is the definition from the dictionary _signs or indications of something_ I am the sign and indication that a creator exists. Stop with the nonsense.

[@LaRossaSelvaggia]

What an incredibly dishonest caller.

[@TRVBAL]

I love when Matt drops a logic bomb on the caller, and we get to hear a slight gasp in the audience! Logic was my favorite course in college and I'm so glad I took it!!

[@christaylor6674]

The caller is only trying to paint Matt into a corner and ends up making himself sound silly. This is a running theme and why I love this show.

[@trustprojects]

“Where did the chessboard come from?” is possibly the most violent swerve I’ve yet seen performed in order to avoid admitting something that might erode belief.

[@dj33036]

Call your god out..........let's hear what he has to say!.............crickets!

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Two thousand years pass and still it squawks.. Jesus is coming! Jesus is coming! I am so tired of listening to this stupid yammering.

[@DragonMacWii]

Jesusgeuse! Jesusgeuse! Jesusgeuse! Still a no show. The crickets are laughing now.

[@dj33036]

@David Anewman Huh?

[@HectorJimenez-ee9zi]

@David Anewman keep huffing the glue, turd.

[@gazza595]

@David Anewman How is it fable believing mythologists are so determined fabricate gods into other peoples lives? Accept it, not everyone needs or cares about your bronze age mythology.

[@krismoonpie]

Thanks Matt and Don and everyone else on the team for all your hard work over the years to try and open a line of communication between the different viewpoints in the world. I know it's gotten harder and more tiresome over the years but damn, you have done some amazingly important work for humanity! Thank you

[@SolveEtCoagula93]

OMG Matt - that was some of the minutes I have ever spent watching Utube! Your argument was SO water tight that the caller, who obviously thought he was so clever, was completely out of his depth with only a recourse to idiotic comments. Absolutely excellent!

[@thomasowens5824]

You missed out the word "best" before minutes and I would agree.

[@InADarkTavern]

This isn’t the first time he’s called about this nihilism question, he called back in 2018 as well

[@williest1]

12:10 "You already acknowledged that BATTERY ACID is bad for you" - 'As a Christian' .... WOW. Embarrassing, smdh... :/

[@truttlebear7999]

Apparently you're immune to battery acid if you're not a christian. I know that's not what he meant, but that's what I keep going to. X3

[@venom.gaming]

I think this is the one that clears it up for all those theists out there that are willing to listen. Well done Mr. Dillahunty.

[@u2kimbow]

Nihilism is in the bible Ecclesiastes 3:19-22 NIV 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?” 22 So I saw that there is nothing better for a person than to enjoy their work, because that is their lot. For who can bring them to see what will happen after them?

[@Fufiloofa]

Luke just put a name to the pigeon in the saying "like playing chess with a pigeon"...

[@rmelzhim6033]

When the caller starts laughing at 13:54 he makes it 100% clear that he's nothing more than a pathetic troll.

[@Humorous25]

Good job Matt excellent demonstration of using the mind that you have

[@blackbird1591]

U can hear it in his voice. He struggles so fucking hard

[@warren52nz]

Watch the cornered animal try to create a distraction so he can sprint away.

[@owenwilliams105]

Ive seen this clip about five times and Matt deserves a round of applause, not only for his total clarity in offering this idiot an explanation, but for his endless patience.

[@Jadbgjoka]

Luke is dishonest. His own channel features these smarmy "thought bubble" commentaries of his past call-ins that show he repeatedly hides the nature of his calls to set up gotchas. You can tell by his pointed answers and refusal to clarify his point in response to Matt's clarifications that he doesn't view these as discussions. These are poor attempts at point scoring. The sad thing is, these are interesting and good conversations to have, but he dances around the point so long the host is sick of him by the time we get there. Get better at communicating Luke. Trim 15 min off your approach, or just try being honest.

[@user-yn2ru2ep1j]

What's his channel?

[@Jadbgjoka]

kg artistic layman or something very similar. Atheist experience in the keywords helped me find it

[@tessalyyvuo1667]

Sounds like he got the Dunning Kruger.

[@bb1111116]

Jadbgjoka; Luke's phone call was helpful for me in understanding why so many Protestant evangelical Christian's are very hostile to science. Matt said that because drinking apple juice was healthier than drinking battery acid, that this was an objective fact. Luke responded no, because the root concept of well-being is subjective because it was not based on a belief in Jesus Christ. Therefore from Luke's POV, without a belief in Christ, there is no objective reality. * The common response to this video is that Luke was stupid. He's not. He is irrational but not dumb. I have had many debates with some clever flat earthers. Luke helps me to understand them better. - Essentially for many Protestant evangelical Christians, without a belief in Christ, there is no objective reality. Science without Christ therefore is not real because it is subjective. A belief in Christ creates objective reality. If the Bible/Christ, in a persons mind, tells someone that the earth is flat, then this is objective reality and to that person, the earth must be flat.

[@Hank254]

Luke agreed to sit down and play chess with Matt. Matt controlled the game and was going to beat Luke after his next move. When Luke realized he was about to lose, he knocked all the pieces off the board and yelled 'But chess doesn't MATTER!!' Luke is the one retreating to nihilism.

[@TheKosmikid]

I love these one issue callers. They get destroyed within the first sentence but keep going anyway, showing the flaws in their belief systems. Each caller I hear strengthens my non belief in gods. Thank you theists.

[@dukkha62]

The caller's failure to understand comes not from his inability to comprehend, but from an insistence that he must not comprehend. He feels the moment he concedes even a minor point to an atheist he is opening himself up to a knock-down.

[@jeconomides]

Over the last couple of years I have watched hundreds of AE videos but this one is probably my favourite. Beautifully presented Matt wit tremendous patience. I don’t understand why the caller can not grasp something so simple to understand. Truth is he probably does understand but doesn’t want to admit it.

[@wunnell]

It's not that he can't grasp it. It's that he won't grasp it. As Matt said, he clearly understood what his acceptance of Matt's points regarding the analogy meant and so he looked for another way to wiggle out of it. What he didn't realise is that that question actually weakened his position further. He asked where the chess board came from to distinguish it from something like human health, which he claims is imbued with objective value by god. The things is, if the chess board is just an arbitrary human invention and yet he had already agreed that there were objectively good and bad move in chess, he had already acknowledged that you don't need god for things to be objectively good or bad, therefore god was not needed for acts to be objectively good or bad for human health.

[@ArtisticLayman]

Matt is arguing that subjective preferences can be moral truth in a meaningless universe. That's crazy.

[@wunnell]

@@ArtisticLayman , no he isn't. You're doing exactly what the caller did, which is either indicative of you're being dense or dishonest. If I feed you poison then that will be detrimental to your health. There's nothing subjective about that. It is an objective fact that your health will be adversely affected by that action. It is subjective preference whether we care about the fact that your health will be adversely affected but that doesn't change the fact. The fact that caring about human health is subjective doesn't matter anyway. The caller says that he cares about human health as a Christian but I don't believe that. Christians love to claim that life is meaningless without god but that implies that, should they discover that their god didn't exist, those Christians would either kill themselves or just lay down and wait to die. I don't believe that for a moment. The human will to survive is strong and it wouldn't disappear for most people just because they found out that there is no god. The fact that atheists don't behave that way, despite theists telling us we should, is proof of that. The fact is that most people care about human health because they are human beings. If they determined that there was no god then they would still care about human health. Maybe not to the same degree but they would still care. Your claim is like saying that it is subjective preference that walking in a particular direction will get me to a particular place. That's ludicrous. It is obviously subjective as to whether I want to be in that place or not but that doesn't change the fact that walking in that direction will get me there. If you can't comprehend that then I'm afraid that you're a perfect example of how religion makes people dumb, determined to justify their beliefs no matter how ridiculous the claims that requires.

[@jeconomides]

@@wunnell - "Christians love to claim that life is meaningless without god but that implies that, should they discover that their god didn't exist, those Christians would either kill themselves or just lay down and wait to die. I don't believe that for a moment." EXACTY!!!.. In fact, I am an example of what you said. I used to believe (Greek Orthodox), and then after having watched ACCIDENTALLY a bunch of Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins videos on youtube, something clicked in my head practically overnight. I didn't suddenly say to myself "Ah well, life doesn't matter now, so I'll go kill myself,/harm others or steal, or do stupid stuff." In fact if anything I felt even MORE pressure to do GOOD, as the sudden realisation set in that I only have THIS life to go out and make a positive difference to the world, and time is severely limited. Because once I'm gone, I'm gone. So I have made my life's mission to make others happy, help them get what they want and if by chance by doing that I attract some good things into my life, then that's just a bonus.

[@radishpineapple74]

@@wunnell In other threads, ArtisticLayman claims to be the caller Luke.

[@andsoon..9190]

I have learnt more and more how to be patient with patients from Matt !

[@HetaliaGirl1]

I'm tired if people giving the credit for their decision to be a decent person over to their imaginary friend in the sky. You did that on your own. Considering how many people on this planet don't care about well being or other people, take credit for what you did.

[@memitim171]

The sad part is some of them don't do it on their own, like the caller said at the start he tries to be a good person because he's obligated to, not because he wants to.

[@memitim171]

@David Anewman Maybe, I've never seen 2 stoners start a fight, that'd be way too much effort! :D

[@memitim171]

@David Anewman Jesus is for those who can't handle the truth.

[@HectorJimenez-ee9zi]

@@memitim171 great rebuttal

[@Vyral714]

It's such an obvious example of the intellectual dishonesty in so many theists. Even when he wasn't even sure where Matt was going with his analogy, once he realized that it might end up refuting his argument he purposefully started resisting answering any of his questions honestly and tried to dodge them or change the subject to something totally irrelevant rather than just answer the question.

[@josephgreene9789]

Luke is waiting for a gotcha moment that never comes

[@godless1014]

I value things, therefore technically speaking, I am not a fatalistic nihilist. However, in my day to day life I am pretty damned fatalistic. It's actually fairly liberating to realize that none of this bullshit really matters all that much and, oddly enough, accepting that life is mostly meaningless allows for the possibility at times to lead a somewhat meaningful life without getting hung up on all the bullshit everyone else tries to force you to do.

[@sendtoanthony]

I love Don's laugh.

[@kkakodkar]

haha look up "Luke - Phoenix, AZ" - he's been trying this for over 2 years (at least) and this is the best he could come up with

[@He.knows.nothing]

Nihilism!? Nani!?!? Queue the army of angry Jordan Peterson disciples.

[@nickyrathor007]

His analogy at the end, damn gave me goosebumps !

[@oggyoggy1299]

Tore him a new one in a way his pastor could only hope to do.

[@defenestratefalsehoods]

Who do people want to put labels on everyone. Why would a person believe life is meaningless just because they don't believe in God. You find your own reason to live.

[@jmsjazz1]

"Presuming the health is good."😂

[@haudace]

Let's even indulge the caller and assume Matt & Don are in the wrong... That is no way to convince anyone. My advice if any theists care: Listen to people's opinion about their beliefs. Respond to what they are actually saying, not to the idea you have manufactured in your head.

[@krenwregget7667]

the caller is just being deliberately obtuse in order to get a rise out of Matt.

[@JJ-qo7th]

"How do you know?" "Because of the confidence I have in him." In other words, I know because I know.

[@yancissnei842]

Jesus, Matt is amazing. I've been trying to convince myself that God exists, but after listening to his rant after the conversation w/ the caller, I now realize that I'll never find God, because God doesn't exist. Thank you Matt.

[@Nathan-tg4gu]

How does this conversation, of all of them, lead you to conclude that there is no God?

[@joat1979]

"It is a death cult, waiting for the real life to start." Gonna commit that one to memory.

[@rennhoalohaloren6211]

Why is it so difficult for believers to understand that intelligent, thinking, empathetic people are totally capable of being moral and kind without there needing to be a God in the picture? Their question ought to be why would they not care about other people and life in general if they didn't believe in God and were "saved?" That is a most disturbing proposition.

[@Ozone280]

Because their intellect has rotted through lack of use

[@zachrichardson5581]

Because it would destroy their fundamental bases of their beliefs. They automatically presuppose/define God as necessary for morality and kindness to exist. So acknowledging that God ISN'T necessary for those things would then render their God completely irrelevant to our existence.

[@blackhelm5773]

Summary of call Luke: I like boxes Matt: Fuck your boxes.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Wikipedia: "Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value" It depends on what kind of a day I'm having.

[@joegillian314]

even if you grant that that's true, it's still without logic to leap to: therefore kill indiscriminately, or whatever horrendous thing you can think of, which is what some people seem to believe.

[@TheActualPES]

James Richard Wiley isn’t it funny that it’s got that one little word, ‘objective’, in the description. Kind of suggests that meanings, purposes or values of life are subjective...

[@joegillian314]

@@TheActualPES Existential nihilism seems trivially true to me. I suppose it depends a little bit on what is meant by "objective," but I take it to mean something which is self evident and doesn't depend on interpretation (i.e. there is only 1 correct interpretation).

[@MijinLaw]

You had so much patience with that caller

[@vincebuckley1499]

I have a feeling that this guy's confidence level pre and post call don't line up.

[@kelrunner]

no because he keeps coming back.

[@arakusband]

Matt's patience here was incredible. This is him at his best with a profoundly dishonest caller.

[@henrikrolfsen584]

Question: What is it about an "Eternal Life in Heaven" that is not nihilist? You Christians expect to sit around blowing horns, and strumming harps, for eternity? How is that purposeful? You Believers sure can talk, but you sure can't THINK!

[@NottherealLucifer]

They're too stupid to know that that's what their holy book describes heaven as. They've never read the bible, so how would they ever know?

[@HuanLinParkour]

I also believe in Nihilism too even though I'm a strong Atheist. We all create our own purpose and meaning in life.

[@gabrieljordan8015]

Well this is why I had so much trouble admitting to myself I no longer believed in any higher power whatsoever because I thought wouldn't have any meaning or purpose without an imaginary skydaddy friend.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Lose the imaginary friend and nothing happens.

[@doilysimpkin6972]

🤣 He called in thinking he could 'gotcha' Matt and when he realised he'd been fully poned, he acts stupid and asks where the chess board came from. Ahahahaha!

[@pdutube]

I don't know why theists make any claims for gods other than they believe they exist. I can only assume it's because their social agenda can't be enforced.

[@puckerings]

Caller asks question. Matt provides a succinct but detailed answer. Caller asks same question again. He ain't listening.

[@nothingnerdyNtertainment]

The very basic of game theory... 🤦🏾‍♂️

[@juangarza320]

Many of this calls would be solve pretty easily if people knew about game theory. Or other system's anlisis.

[@SemiPerfectDark]

"Drinking battery acid is worse for us than drinking apple juice, right?" Pauses... Hesitant "Yee-eesss..."

[@teamatfort444]

"..... as a christian..." almost implying that all non christian religions and people down battery acid like coca-cola XD

[@Nekulturny]

Reminds me of a bit Judge Judy does when people answer like that because they're clearly more concerned with answering a question in a way that will benefit them rather than answering it truthfully and JJ says dont even bother trying to figure out where I'm going you're not smart enough.

[@scottjohnson7248]

The delay was him scanning his script

[@erikeparsels]

I'm always amused that Christians want to play the morality card. "Well your morality is just subjective, while my god guarantees that my morality is objective." But while it might be claimed their god's commands form an objective standard for morality, their god himself is just as subjective as any other basis for morality, so after kicking the problem back one level, they again lose all basis for claiming an objective moral standard. Their god presents no physical sensory evidence of his existence, so reliance on him is totally subjective. Not only does god, or multiple gods, vary from culture to culture, but from denomination to denomination and person to person within those cultures. Totally subjective. However, the very definition of morality locates it in the realm of action as well as in the realm of interaction. If you were the only living entity in the universe, then none of your actions would be moral or immoral, because there would be no one to be harmed by your actions but yourself. You have to interact with another before your action enters the realm of morality. Morality is about avoiding harming others. Even the Christians acknowledge that morality is about striving for positive interaction, except they prioritize interaction with Jesus, as in following his commands and thus giving him what he wants is preferable to not following his commands and denying him what he wants. This is where secular morality is superior to religious morality, because secular morality is based in objective fact: We know, as far as we can know anything, that other living beings exist around us. We know that our actions can be beneficial or harmful, helpful or injurious, to those beings and to our relationships with them. That is a firm basis for moral decision-making, even if it does vary somewhat from one person or group to another. We do NOT know that any god exists and are in fact confronted with a total lack of anything that counts as evidence for gods. And Christian morality is doubly useless in that it prioritizes personal salvation through faith to the point that merely mumbling and believing that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior outweighs, and absolves you of any responsibility for, anything and everything you might have done or ever will do in your lifetime. So for Christians to play the morality card, when their religion is founded on being able to play the "get out of hell free" card is to demand from atheists a moral standard that they themselves are not having to meet. Total hypocrisy.

[@ohmymy847]

luke now drinks battery acid

[@joshiegntn]

Luke argues sooo dishonestly every time he calls into the show. He agrees with a premise until it shows a weakness in his beliefs. Then he either changes the subject or refuses to answer the question and then flips the question back onto the hosts. Are there any christians who debate honestly?

[@scottjohnson7248]

If theists were honest it would be a short belief. A single statement would suffice: "I believe because I want to believe".

[@gatorboymike]

Christian: "Bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit." Atheist: "That's bullshit because X, Y and Z." Christian: "Oh yeah? Well, MEAHHH!" - every religious debate ever

[@heavymeddle28]

I want Matt as my lawyer when I'm dead and the psycho up there is gonna judge me

[@OnPlanetVenus]

“But where did the chessboard come from?” Some people 😂

[@CronoXpono]

I can hear the entirety of the Sopranos crew saying “this fucking guy!!” 😂 He literally dodged the point so he could stay on his route to his own truth. With folks like that, it beggars belief that he would even want to speak with anyone else. You have all the answers man, why discuss anything? 🤦‍♂️ 😂 😅

[@morpheas768]

I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but I think Luke was being intentionally thick during this entire call, because he didnt want to lose face by admitting that he got something wrong. Rather pathetic, tbh. He says that what is conducive to physical health is subjective, and then 30 seconds later he admits that it is objective. Thats not what an honest person does. He was entirely dishonest, all he wanted was to piss off Matt, or he thought he can try for this "gotcha" moment.