Why Car Companies Still Spend Thousands On Clay Models | Cars Insider

[@iSchmidty13]

As a designer, CAD models are limited in utility. Nothing can replace a physical 1:1 model, and clay is the cheapest and easiest way to do that for something the size of a car.

[@onsokumaru4663]

Oh really? 3d printing sent its regards.

[@andyy6481]

doesn't the clay dry up and crack?

[@iSchmidty13]

@@onsokumaru4663 3D printing is great for small objects, I use mine all the time to make easy iterative prototypes. But it is not a good option for something the size of a car. 1. 3D printers just aren’t that big. You would need one the size of a garage. 2. 3D printers are way slower than human sculptors. I can hand make anything I 3D print far faster than my printer, I just don’t do it often because I can just push a button and then work on something else in the meantime. 3. It would generate a staggering amount of plastic waste. Clay is infinitely recyclable via low environmental impact processes. 4. 3D printing can’t get the same level of detail as a skilled sculptor. Also overhangs would be an issue, and tons of cleanup and refinement would be required.

[@iSchmidty13]

@@andyy6481 I don’t think they keep the clay model that long, and maybe they store it in a humidified room? Or maybe they dry it out in a controlled manor, or maybe the clay is just a stable mixture that doesn’t shrink much as it dries. I’m not totally sure, it’s a good question!

[@zee9709]

@@onsokumaru4663 how do you modified hard plastic? Reprint it every time?

[@ARZZiO]

Spending thousands on a clay model isn't really expensive for a car company that makes millions each year, plus it helps designers to come up with a better final design so why not

[@Diego.03]

Thousands is just a VERY small fraction of the total R&D costs which tend to be in the Billions

[@ericspda]

While you're still right, these full size clay models easily cost over $100,000 all in. Not sure why they went with 'thousands' in the title, it ain't cheap. And auto makers profit in the BILLIONS, not millions. But the margins are shockingly low all considered, so its less impressive than it sounds.

[@borivojetravica569]

Ok , where is prove for example if just using 3D be something it be a less better car or not.

[@heinzhaupthaar5590]

@@borivojetravica569 There's no proof, but it's absolutely obvious to most who ever worked in design etc. A 1:1 model gives a completely different impression than even the most sophisticated VR programs and such, even without taking into account that you can actually touch the model etc. And the cost is completely negligible anyway.

[@kuro19382]

@@borivojetravica569 The proof is that those companies spend billions on research and development to both make their designs better and faster to create. If going full 3D was a better choice they would have done it.

[@ericcarabetta1161]

I always thought the clay modeling was the coolest part of car design. VR is good for working out technical things that aren't necessarily visible, but nothing will replace being able to physically be in the same space and touch the object you are interacting with.

[@ImTheMan0fSteel]

That isn't too far away with AR and VR too. The next big sense ar and VR are going after, is touch and feel. There's some interesting tech out there for it already.

[@danielpark7821]

@@ImTheMan0fSteel how? That seems impossible to create physical matter out of coding.

[@TahuRock]

@@danielpark7821 probably gloves and other garments that simulate interaction?

[@ladboii2901]

@@danielpark7821 not really, Haptics are available now

[@onsokumaru4663]

3d printing has and will replace those said methods. Did I mention that you can also be in the same space and touch the objects you've printed?

[@mecharoo]

I think what's missing in the key takeaway is that the clay model is scanned, processed and fed back to the computer to update the CAD model.

[@JayTX.]

No we got it

[@Prizm44]

Exactly, if they’re just hand carving bits off here and there, how are they maintaining any accuracy? But yeah it makes sense that they would have to rescan it and even things out afterwards.

[@nikitavolchik]

@@Prizm44 I'm not a car sculptor, but I am a sculptor and I can tell you that if we need accuracy, we make it happen. Even the ways on milling machines are hand-scraped at the end for the highest tolerances. The amount of accuracy that can be achieved completely by hand is amazing.

[@fynkozari9271]

What CAD?

[@privacyvalued4134]

@@fynkozari9271 CAD = Computer Assisted Design. It's 2D/3D modeling software for designing physical items that will be machined later.

[@zzoinks]

I remember hearing about, this may be a few decades ago, a car company would make half a clay model and put a mirror on the missing side to mirror the clay model, so they can get an idea of the whole car without spending the time making both sides. But it seems that car companies today can quickly make a whole clay model of the car. I remember seeing clay models in a Mazda ad.

[@skaa9217]

they often do variations from side to side and compare

[@col3555]

I remember in 3d modeling class we would only make half of the car model then use a mirror tool to create a full model.

[@theaveragepro1749]

can probably get the CNC to copy the other side

[@JavierOropeza08]

It must be a great feeling to see your design as a car designer, out in the real world, in production and being driven.

[@JAMESYBOY.]

Fr it's a true art

[@ikannunaplays]

@@danz_w My brother feels the same way about his engineering projects, except he makes valves for toilets and faucets

[@hazel-vf7on]

@@ikannunaplays Engineering is beauty in all shapes and forms. I sometimes find myself fascinated by the engineering in things as small as a "simple" lock. I've only made diy stuff in my days, but I'm still proud when they come out functioning well.

[@adityamanjunath5030]

Oh yes that's the dream getting your design into the real world

[@Coecoo]

It isn't really """their""" design. It is always a collaboration between hundreds and sometimes thousands of people. Best one can do is think "I had a part in making that.".. It's also very easy to design something but incredibly difficult to articulate a system for manufacturing it in significant quantities.

[@CT37BN]

Nothing beats seeing concept designs in full scale. Digital is more on the technical side that engineers need for production and safety data.

[@FlameRat_YehLon]

It's possible to see the design in full scale in VR as well. Maybe not 100% but it's definitely 95%+ in accuracy.

[@sussybaka3287]

Full scale models depends on what you are designing. If it's a building you can't really do 1:1

[@VinceroAlpha]

@@FlameRat_YehLon you've missed the point entirely.

[@naskirnawas2037]

@@FlameRat_YehLon The remaining 5 percent could be a company nightmare

[@FlameRat_YehLon]

@@VinceroAlpha Or not? Even if clay model is ultimately needed, what's the harm of doing a few examations and revisions in VR first?

[@Namburiadityasairam2605]

Still it's very cool that artisanship is still thriving in new age industries. I think it's an important part of human history and should be preserved!

[@137_mrugmaymali4]

you said right

[@PierSilver]

In pratice, it's gonna be preserved only untill it pays for itself. Then its gonna be in museums. Money is king, especially in a sector which is the defining example of "industry".

[@monad_tcp]

@@PierSilver I don't think the cost of the clay model matters much. It's the cost of creating the design. It's labour cost. Clay modeling is just a tool. It's not about money, it's about engineering. You could use 3D printing, but then I bet it wouldn't be as fast as milling clay. I bet they use VR also, but nothing replaces seeing it in real life.

[@monad_tcp]

@@PierSilver Money is not king. Human experience is. Its ironic people get it wrong. No wonder companies go under, they forget why they earn money, people want experience. Experience is king, that's why they expend their money. Saying money is king downplays everything. You don't go looking for a car and buy it in a catalog and only look at the price tag. You might do it, but I don't. I bet most people do a test drive and balance a thousand of things while deciding do buy a car. Sure, you have a budget, but constrained in that, you choose other things. Money is not the end all, be all. The ironic thing is that money can't be the end all because value is subjective, so is money used to trade valuable items. Things and human experience is what matters.

[@platinumsky845]

@@monad_tcp if you 3D print it, you won't be able to modify it on the fly as easily, like for design or aerodynamics.

[@ambrotose]

It actually blows my mind to find out that every car manufacturer doesn't have their own wind tunnel.

[@Ishthemane4]

That's what I'm saying! Maybe lucid doesn't yet?

[@peterlee9691]

Or a company that owns a wind tunnel waiting for the next customer to walk in. You're my only customer for the whole year so to pay for my equipment here's the bill per hour $$$$$

[@Moebelmannn]

All major OEMs do have their own wind tunnels. Probably rather small scale OEMs rent them.

[@Crispy_Cheese88]

There are so many testing to be done on each new model to meet the regulations. Wind tunnel is just one of the test that takes too much cost plus the maintenance & space for small manufacturer. There's aging test, hot & cold test, rain test, air bag test, impact test & so much more test on each part. So it would be more cost saving for them to just rent the test lab for 1 model that could last 5 to 8 years production

[@donsorenoelchapogringo1182]

@@Crispy_Cheese88 Well Car Manufacturers are big most of the time.

[@ViralKiller]

2:18 good to see Tommy Wiseau is placing his talents within the automative industry

[@dspsblyuth]

That’s not Tommy it’s the guy from the black eyed peas

[@ViralKiller]

@@dspsblyuth Tommy is more famous

[@dspsblyuth]

@@ViralKiller Tommy isn’t just famous he’s a legend

[@highbury4life899]

I thought that was Ozzy Osbourne.

[@Drgnbreath7221]

He named the car Lisa

[@diegovianavillegas3297]

It's been a big surprise to discover thqt BMW actually did a clay model of their last uber-ugly front design....and apparently, they loved it!!!

[@waterheaterservices]

It's amazing, all the effort and expense just to make vehicles so grotesque .

[@user-wq9mw2xz3j]

it really aint that bad

[@fibonaccisrazor]

They must have been on something when they evaluated it

[@cayman9873]

It sucks

[@Sashazur]

They obviously did focus groups and their target customers liked it - but it’s pretty easy to get whatever you want out of a focus group; you just need to pick the right participants, offer only specific choices, and steer the conversation where you want.

[@paint4pain]

Big old companies still do clay modelling but smaller/younger companies rarely do, I was surprised that Lucid did. I worked in powersports oem accessories with Honda, Polaris, BRP, Arctic Cat now Textron, Suzuki and Yamaha and I remember the designer from Arctic Cat coming to see our prototype lab and being stunned that we had made a life size model of his SxS out of cardboard and PVC pipes to fit our accessories, he said it was the first time he saw the vehicle outside of a computer.

[@burtun1760]

They don’t design cars though. I think this video was focusing on actual car companies. Power sport companies don’t need to worry about aerodynamics and minute design for an atv typically.

[@chloekaftan]

Lucid Air was founded by one of the older generations of car designers, the very same one that stole proprietary Tesla Research & Technologies to get to where they are today. Imo they should be forcibly shut down for high level corporate espionage and Intellectual Property Theft of potentially billions of dollars in development. But people brush it off as a welcome competition to Tesla. Thieves do not deserve to be welcomed, they deserve prison time.

[@allenklingsporn6993]

Big difference between aftermarket components for a SxS and production on-highway vehicles. Every car company that takes their product seriously models in clay; it has nothing to do with age of the business. Show me one successful car business that doesn't use clay, and I'll shut up. Also, Lucid is more serious about their vehicle than every other EV. They have dedicated fit and finish engineers due to their experiences driving their own Teslas (NVH concerns).

[@simonhodgetts6530]

It’s great to see that traditional modelling techniques still play a key part in the design process - you really can’t assess a complex form on a screen, no matter how advanced the tech gets - full size models are often the only tangible way that a form can be assessed and honed.

[@microcolonel]

Nice thing about clay is that it can be scanned very consistently with 3D scanners, and used to adjust the geometry in CAD. Other materials are a lot harder to scan. Particularly metallic materials.

[@ideiben3190]

I could swear this video showed Art Center College of Design corridor. I went to ACCD for automotive and product design. Best memories of my entire life. I STILL use the Chavant clay for my projects...! The guy who taught ME the clay was same guy who did the clay on the original Shelby Mustang. Joe was his name. Super tough to get anything higher than a 'C' in his class...and I got a B plus. ..Thank you, Thank you.

[@_hanz73]

In my opinion clay is the most reliable, easy to refine and basically a perfect way to design cars

[@Glorious_Kim_Jong_Un]

European methods are better than American clay methods, Clay is barbaric.

[@Cozzy-Wozzy]

@@Glorious_Kim_Jong_Un Ok.

[@SkinniJ]

@@Glorious_Kim_Jong_Un eggs? eggs on toast? is that what you’re saying?

[@schechter01]

@@Glorious_Kim_Jong_Un Snooty European spotted

[@Alan-nj2zs]

@@Glorious_Kim_Jong_Un ah yes Queen Elizabeth

[@sanches2]

I'm lucky enough to have had the oportunity to work in such a studio alonside automotive designers. I design electronics and sometimes when doing something new and limits are pushed we have to work alongside for a while to mesh the ph. Design with the electronic devices. It feels like living in the movies sometimes.

[@bluepearlgirl-emelie]

I cant figure it out.. Are those made out of ceramic clay or plasticine? I would think the later would be much easier to use due to it not drying and shrinking but i could not tell from the video. Looks like some of those were made before the invention of plasticine. So i am just as lost as when i started but i have worked in both so i am really curious. Maybe you may know....?

[@nicholashennessy6740]

Even as an Mechanical Engineering student, CAD is amazing but nothing beats having a 1:1 model you can form yourself.

[@xstingrayx]

Yep, nothing beats a 1:1. We should do it with tunnels and bridges too :D

[@triliner254]

@@xstingrayx You're kidding right?

[@Zoldier92]

@@triliner254 Clay is stupid.

[@xstingrayx]

@@triliner254 Yes :/

[@cybervigilante]

@@xstingrayx And nuclear bomb!

[@daviddickmeyer5231]

I have been retired after working for GM for many years and I still get exited when I see a clay model. It was a fun but rigorous career with many 24 hour days getting ready for shows. This was a great video explaining the process very correctly. Thanks for doing it.

[@glloydphilpott9630]

David, did you know Eric Norton at the Warren Design Studio?

[@WholesaleZone]

Oh god designing is not easy task wonderful jobs done by this people ❤️

[@DJ_MH_Remixes]

Best looking cars are not the cars you see daily on street. Alfa Romeo, Porsche, Ferrari, BMW love it!

[@MidnightSt]

From my experience, nothing is really an easy task. If you think that anything is easy (simple), it's most likely because you don't know enough about it.

[@fynkozari9271]

If they have talent, if they love their jobs then why not? If I love cooking, I would cook all day.

[@envynoir]

​@@DJ_MH_Remixes new bmw with those ugly ass grills, hell nah

[@FranklyNorman]

People live their lives in their cars. And sometimes, the most insignificant detail can be the difference between a person buying a car or not. Particularly when it comes to luxury cars, as those people can afford to be more choosy. With billions of dollars in yearly sales on the line, producing a completed car without first making a physical/tangible model would be the biggest possible mistake.

[@mandingosaurus3553]

Wow so General motors came up this technique. That is so amazing, now everyone bases their cars modeling around this method.

[@raymonds7492]

General Motors has contributed greatly to the industry in many ways.

[@DB-qm4jx]

General Motors made my smjeep Cherokee steering columns

[@jeretso]

Wow Just looking at that clay model on my remote screen looks amazing. The teamwork needed to build that work of art is incredible. Good Job Everyone!

[@generalmisery]

As a 3D artist I do designs that look good for what perspectives I need them. Weird angles sometimes make it look bad. Cars are massive objects that people look at every day from all possible angles. Everyone has that one thing that has this one spot that isn't nice to look at.

[@sheilashineleofany822]

You are right.. for example I saw toyota 86 launching images.. I thought it was such an ugly car.. But seeing it in person its really different and actually quite good

[@lutzderlurch7877]

distance is quite an important aspect. Which is why many mirrors suck, because you stand very close and thus perceive yoursellf in a distorted way. I found out with historical ships, they tend to look bullish and chonky, when looking at technical drawings from the front, the rear or sides, and fat when looked from overhead. But as soon as you look at a genuine 3D representation, model or actual ship, the gentle lines work their magic and make the ships so much more gracile and elegant. Or backt o cars: Ford Model A: plans look fat, Models look fat..unless from a plausible human height, then the car can hide it's chonkiness well.

[@michaelz6870]

I found the component of taking the model outdoors, to see how natural light interacted with design, pretty much amazing and never would have thought that to be so crucial in the design process. Hmm - who knew. . .

[@JTCT]

The most amazing part of all of this is the amount of people from designers, engineers, upper management, and so on that allowed that hideous grille on the bmw to end up on the production models. They had it's final look right there in clay. Could have fixed it in 5 minutes.

[@ivanm3342]

maybe that was the time they tried skipping the clay modeling part?😂

[@Taladar2003]

Hideous fronts seem to be a design trend, especially among SUVs.

[@Eric-xh9ee]

A Porsche just looks like a VW Bug from behind lol. I'd rather save my money and just buy the Bug instead.

[@mikeblatzheim2797]

@@Eric-xh9ee So I'm assuming the last time you saw a Porsche was in 1961?

[@termitreter6545]

It probably the marketing people that decided such a grille would be a good idea. And they tend to overrule a lot of rational ideas... or maybe BMW genuinely assumes that their sellers arent rational themselves and got no sense for aesthetics.

[@cyrilmatthew2995]

BMW spends on clay models to better understand how big of a grille a passenger car can hold. Rumour has it in future front grille will be the most expensive component of BMW cars in future

[@GeorgiGeorgiev-ne9ps]

Haha

[@SF-dy6hn]

I want a wrap around grill that extends all the way around the car.

[@ChazCharlie1]

But grills are pointless on electric cars

[@TheSultan1470]

Wrong

[@nefreston8503]

In the future, BMW cars would have grills so big that you can cook with it.

[@seal9737]

Part of this is helpful because they can see it and get a feel for what they want to make. This also just gives the care a human feel and cooler touch

[@edcofu]

As a CNC programmer, these models don't become reality overnight. Clay must be a wonderful material to machine and really fast but requires some finishing by human hands.

[@take5th]

Aircraft had external molds made of the model. These molds were made of plaster and represented the outer mold line of the craft. Kept for reference purposes, these molds were large, heavy, and difficult to store, but it was done.

[@divine3608]

I don't care how much improvement is made, clay modeling remains a strong bond in vehicle design

[@cli_commands]

I wonder if a combination of 3d printing and clay modelling makes this process more effective

[@MichaelsCrazy]

I design motorcycles, both are used in my industry. Usually clay in early stages and printing later, but many bikes have both

[@WittyDroog]

That's more or less what they're doing, only that instead of 3d printing it's CNC milling. While I don't know for sure I'm fairly convinced that milling is a faster process than an additive method like FDM using clay would be with closer-to-final results.

[@marvinschneyder207]

In 0:52 you see part of a 3D printing process. Removing soluble printmaterial from the print.

[@monhi64]

@@WittyDroog milling is probably a good bit quicker, it can take out a pretty large chunk vs printing is however many mm high and wide. Printing a whole ass car would take a long time lol

[@Kalvinjj]

@@monhi64 Tho printers that make this kind of stuff output material in many kilos per hour not the usual grams per hour home machines do. A combination of a rough under shell and a thinner layer of clay on top is definitely an interesting technique. I can see additive manufacturing (so 3D printing) reducing the foam work, or the (almost) full size model being smoothed by hand with little clay on top.

[@MrAmalasan]

How do the get the hand adjusted proportions and shapes back into the CAD model?

[@2660016A]

It boggles my mind that a human can make a model like this millimetre symmetrical. Such complex curves to judge by vision and feel!

[@robinsquares]

They model one side at a time, then scan it into the computer. Then, over night, the machine mills it onto the other side of the car so you get it symmetrical

[@2660016A]

@@robinsquares Ah! Good to know! Thanks 🙏

[@GRosa250]

I still want to see how a car design goes from clay model to stamped sheet metal. No one ever shows the process of how the actual molds are made.

[@ronblack7870]

huge blocks of tool steel are machined on massive cnc milling machines that can work in 5 axes. heat treatment can be done and final machining then dies are hand finished . look at some videos of the giga texas opening party. they show a die half. it's huge . i would guess 100 tons for 1/2 the mold. it takes at least 6 months to make a set of dies and can cost millions.

[@EatMyYeeties]

Well, the key is in the name. Stamped steel. The mill the design of each panel into massive chunks of tool steel with a receiver for a hydraulic press. They feed in their sheet metal and press it into shape. Now, it's not ENTIRELY that simple. Usually, the mold has to be designed with slightly more curvature in spots to ensure the panel when it is released doesn't spring back to a slightly wrong angle. Steel needs to be bent and shaped about 2-3 degrees extra for it to snap back to its actual shape. This is why many car manufacturers have gone to fiberglass panels as all you need is the mold, and you can lay the fiberglass in and manufacture the panels without the fear of it coming out with an incorrect shape. The only downside with fiberglass panels is manufacturing cost as you need more molds to produce panels at the same rate a stamped steel mold can push panels out.

[@ikannunaplays]

@@EatMyYeeties I believe the part here that is missing and key is how the design gets transferred from the clay model measurement by measurement to replicate 1:1 in order to be turned into the negative mold halves for the press.

[@__-vb3ht]

You use optical 3D scanners or huge contraptions with a robot arm and a small needle that can detect touch to measure tons of points on the model and then those are used for the final computer model. There are different CAD modellers, some build the general file and then a second team will go through and make adjustments of millimetres or less to make sure there are no imperfections in the reflections. Making sure all surfaces are mathematically, geometrically perfect and there are no flat spots for example

[@nicholasstokes5335]

Clay is to get a real look and feel of the design and production models come from me as a digital sculptor with a class A alias model.

[@xnadave]

CAD and the other tools we use can easily get in the way of the design process. Being able to iterate in seconds by adding or removing material is invaluable.

[@christopherross8358]

Sometimes I really hate CAD, especially when the company you are working for forces you to use a particular software you really don't like. I love building by hand and making molds. It allows me, mostly, to produce a field ready beta. I do like Cad for sub assemblies and gears - and regularly print out a STL or OBJ and add clay to it when making enclosures and cases with inter connecting parts.

[@ghersidoci6519]

Car companies have every chance to make a good car and still end up making things like the new bmw 2 series, bmw ix, or the hyundai ionos

[@anonymoususer3561]

All these damn mountain boot-looking cars

[@samuelharris2473]

what do you mean? the 2 series looks alright. Not bad at least.

[@Gadottinho]

They are good, not good looking tho

[@TheSultan1470]

Wrong 100

[@wisdomhappy587]

Being able to do this better and with more finesse in AR and Vr will be a great goal for designers of those systems!

[@bicyclist2]

I always wanted to be a car designer, ever since I was a kid. I found out that it's easier to get into the NBA, than it is to become a car designer. Years ago I read in a car magazine that the Pininfarina Mythos was so complex and complicated (in 89') that the Italian designers completely abandoned their computers and just sculpted it by hand. I would love to do this job for a living. Thanks.

[@MDPeetje]

But what if they made some changes to the clay model, how do they import/implement those on the digital one? Do they scan the clay model afterwards?

[@MichaelsCrazy]

They are scanned and cleaned up digitally or used as reference. Often only one side and mirrored in CAD

[@raymonds7492]

The mystery is how they did it before computers.

[@SanctuaryLife]

@@raymonds7492 well CAD has been around since the 80s, earlier cars before that didn’t really have aerodynamics has a major factor.

[@DimitarStanev]

@@SanctuaryLife You don't need CAD to take aerodynamics into account. Physical wind tunnel testing is still used widely. First truly aero cars were designed in the 1920s and 30s - example Tatra 77.

[@cactusman1771]

@@raymonds7492 Not really a mystery just time, craftsmanship and mirrors.

[@peergynt6515]

This is the mechanical implementation of the agile/spiral model which is popular in software development. The mechanical team can make changes to a physical object based on testing, the same way programmers can easily update their software from feedback.

[@sdlcman1]

Perfection requires the artist's eye, always. I wonder if anybody made a clay model of the Pontiac Aztec.

[@martymcfly8442]

I know man! That was an awful design. Almost as bad as the Pinto!

[@sdlcman1]

@@martymcfly8442 The Pinto had safety and quality related problems, but the car itself wasn't bad looking. It was a nice sporty hatchback.

[@benjaminbatema6963]

Knowing GM the answer is yes.

[@TheSultan1470]

@@martymcfly8442 Really?

[@sdlcman1]

@@benjaminbatema6963 I just saw in another video that the concept car for the Aztec was quite good looking. Unfortunately, the design team went astray, mainly due to GM's top down management style. Nobody dared to speak up.

[@claudinelefebvre5462]

I saw the thumbnail and thought: what a cool cake! 😂😂🧡

[@charleslessig2592]

I worked at a university wind tunnel and auto companies would sometimes contract to do aero testing. The clay models were 3/8 scale, about the size of refrigerators, which seemed to be sufficient for aero testing. The models were mounted on a balance system to measure the forces of the wind. Our wind tunnel was the right size for that and cheaper than one that could test full sized cars. The clay modelers had professional art training, and some would make beautiful sketches during the test runs to pass the time. Then they would run back into the test section to make changes for the next set of runs. The smaller models allowed quicker changes than full size. They did do testing on some full-size models at other wind tunnels. The clay was special for industrial modeling with oil and sulfur in it as the binder. It was put on hot and it scraped very nicely when it cooled down. They had a clay extrusion machine with lots of different dies to make all sorts of clay trim pieces. Some of the modelers were of Italian origin. Sometimes they would sing opera in the tunnel. The echos were great.

[@dcartellone2659]

Never stop using the clay. I truly believe it makes for a better nicer car. And the manufacturers can correct mistakes easier.

[@zeihnwise4000]

Clay model still stands out in 1:1 scale over 3D print and/or VR models main reason is that if you want to make some changes or modify the surface, you can do it instantly on the spot, easier and more efficient (sanding plastic parts is pain and the dust is hazardous, while it is hard to modify miniscule changes in 3D model VR like mentioned in the video) other aspect is that, compared to 3D printer, clay model is way quicker to execute and finish, also cheaper (both materials and time-to-cost aspect) (excess clay/the model itself can be recycled and reused instantly) if you ever handled 3D printed parts then you must know how "smooth" the surface is, yes? applying chemical on 3D printed parts to smoothen it will also smoothen those supposedly sharp edges details :)

[@m.ch4rmaland3r10]

There are still people who prefer the feel of a paper when reading vs digitally. Techology sure has provided more option for decision making

[@seyedalikhatami3970]

Wow that's cool, didn't even know that there is a clay model!

[@unaswimothuti]

I'm just watching this and all I can say is cars are beautiful, all of them, big and small, they are just amazing.

[@renaissanceman5847]

Now if they could only do the same when designing the engine and drivetrain so that we can actually work on them without the dexterity of an octopus and not require we remove 2 dozen parts that would be great.

[@Hamachingo]

You're not supposed to work on modern cars. You're supposed to bring them in for "service" where they either have specialised tools or drop out the whole engine to do minor maintenance or just replace a whole module so they can charge you an arm and a leg. That's where the profit is.

[@theaveragepro1749]

the clay is for aesthetic panels and stuff, not engineering mechanical components

[@renaissanceman5847]

@@theaveragepro1749 the idea is to mock up an engine bay with 3D printed parts and test the ability to use tools and hands to get to the most common components associated with maintenance and repair. Vehicles are now built from the inside out AFTER they are designed from the outside in. This lead to vehicles that once they begin to break down become too expensive to repair and thus end up in the junk yard after only 6 years.

[@Trioptic3D]

How do they keep it from drying out? Do they store these once done or trash them? I imagine these could be wealthy collectors items or museum pieces.

[@MichaelsCrazy]

It is Chavant clay. It is oil based and kept in heated drawers to stay soft. When room temperature it's hard like chocolate.

[@Trioptic3D]

@@MichaelsCrazy fascinating!

[@__-vb3ht]

These cars are hard to store if not kept at the right temperature. Even parking one outside for a few hours can be disastrous. Also the models are insanely heavy

[@Valyssi]

It wasn't really mentioned in the video, but I'd also imagine it would be a lot easier to collaborate on a physical design than a digital one. You can have different people, with different skillsets and abilities, working on different parts of the car simultaneously. Obviously you could split a car into different parts and have people collaborate on that digitally, and perhaps even sync it up in real-time in the viewport, but physical is probably far more flexible in that regard.

[@davidrbrtsn]

Interesting point! I'm an industrial designer turned facilitator and I'm wanting to make it easier for designers to collaborate/communicate remotely... But in-person collaboration is special and will always be the benchmark.

[@nattcattt]

I know nothing about the production of cars. For some reason this video was suggested to me and I’m pretty blown away. I had no idea clay modeling was a part of the process. How cool!

[@DanielPangemanan]

Thank you for this. Very informative. I wouldn't have known this process exists had it not been for this video. 🙏

[@Spencer481]

I'm trying to imagine the car designers who spent days and weeks carefully tweeking and sculpting a clay model for it to end up being a Chevy Aveo or Dodge Journey

[@joe8572]

On the other hand, a Chinese EV company simply used a Lexus compact SUV to “build” their first car.

[@DD-bv9jl]

What's it called

[@joe8572]

@@DD-bv9jl In 2014, Xpeng Motors was founded in Guangzhou, and produced its first mule car in April, 2015, which was tested under Lexus NX’s framework and completed 500,000 KM in five vehicles’ road test.

[@Gadottinho]

That's china, lol

[@stefanoballiero8319]

when working with 3d software everything on the monitor always looks super cool, that's the problem. I remember 20 years ago a marble fountain that I had personally designed and made to cnc how horrible it was, I couldn't even believe that I had created such an abomination 😰

[@draytonswan3704]

Besides testing and allowing designers to see the vehicle full scale, is the clay model used in any other facets of production like maybe to create a final mold for production?

[@NoodleGoblin]

I didn't even know this was a thing. So cool!!

[@PNWLeviathanFPV]

It’s the same concept on why we don’t have an actually accurate flat “globe” map. You can’t take a 3 dimensional sphere with details on all sections of it and make it into a square map. Or even a round flat map. Even though we live in the 3D world, and inter act with it, we still do not fully understand how to take a 2d object and make it 3d flawless without some adjustments.

[@gotlos1]

Ever heard of Google maps?

[@YEAHKINDA]

Basically, to give you the full rundown in as short a time as possible: Double triple-check every part of a design. Touch is a much more sensitive perception than view.

[@kristigates9868]

The best idea about money is; make it, invest most of it and manage whatever that remains expecting huge returns in nearest future. Investment is the best!

[@angiebank7901]

Well said, investment is the way up. Real estate fetch much profit but investing in bitcoin is a better idea.

[@vivianbrown5284]

Are you guys trying to say that real estate doesn't fetch much money?

[@chrisparsonsjohn2118]

@Justice Ferdinand You're correct by stating that bTC is the future. For real real, it's very profitable.

[@mirynth]

The key is quick iterative design and being able to make changes in a physical space really quickly

[@NickVenture1]

Very instructive. Thank you

[@wiiu7640]

One day, you’ll be able to touch a 3D model like you do with real clay in VR.

[@onsokumaru4663]

You can actually. 3d printing.

[@fortheloveofnoise]

@@onsokumaru4663 They mean feel the digital itself. It is coming via mental augmentation, mark my words.

[@NotUwU-_-]

@@onsokumaru4663 you cant lol

[@kevinmcgrath3591]

@@fortheloveofnoise Elons Neural network is a way towards this, an enormous task, a TED talk (i think) recently suggested that direct to brain audio will be first and easiest

[@anonymoususer3561]

@@kevinmcgrath3591 Give it 50 years

[@supimbob12]

I love having an official come out to say "yo it's just not the same" It sounds to me like the only part of this that wasn't actually possible with a digital render was the wind tunnel, and even that is something that physics simulations are going to continue to improve with. Other than that this whole video feels like a bunch of people going "I really like it and it's what I'm comfortable with", which is a totally fine answer, I just don't understand why they need to pretend like "there's no way a computer could adjust the model by a millimeter"

[@1000percent1000]

they didn't say it's a computer problem, they said it's a machining problem. going back to adjust a part requires that the part be in the EXACT same place it was before, otherwise the milling bit will just ruin your part as you try to fix it. definitely agree with everything else ur saying tho, this was a pretty bizarre claim

[@slome815]

Digital imaging had a big problem with scale. While you can see if proportions are righ,. It's very hard to get a feel for how large or small something really is. Make every part on a digital model twice as small, and it will still look exactly the same, by just zooming in a bit. We had this problem with an engine model one of my students was making from plans in imperial units. It looked fairly large on the screen, but once you started measuring it turned out it was a really a couple of cm's in size overall. Also, and I guess the techbros don't really get this, but sometimes it's just faster and easier to do things more manually. If there is a one of fairly simple part with a lot of fine engineering fits it might very well be a lot faster to turn in on a conventional lathe then on a CNC lathe. If you need small changes visible, with accurate lighting and shadows, it might very well be a faster to just make the changes in clay first to visualise if they work.

[@__-vb3ht]

I'm no big shot official, I'm still studying car design but I already have a degree in clay model making. You perceive things really differently if they are on a small screen or as orthographic sideviews vs. when you're standing next to them, moving around the object. It's hard to describe but a screen can't portray the proportions or size of a car exactly. VR goggles are quite good but they still don't beat the real deal

[@henmich]

I do this for a living, and it made me laugh that they showcased the epitome of bad clay modeling practices. 0:40 You would be under threat of being fired if you "pat" the clay onto the model, and not "push" it into the model. When the clay cools, and if you pat, whole areas of the clay can lift off and scab. I bet every clay modeler that watched this video caught the same thing. Fail!.. lol.

[@angelmonkey7493]

Broo you have a really cool job 😯

[@lutzderlurch7877]

The footage in question seems to be somewhat older, I wouldn't be surprised, if the clay used at that time was different, with different properties from the modern day standards

[@thewildarcher1837]

Didn't know that this was a thing at all (farthest thing from a car person), and it just seems so interesting that cars, objects that look and feel so mechanical and machine-made, are actually technically handmade

[@MeiGunner]

Well done video , keep up the good Work car insider.

[@rockspoon6528]

You can't possibly justify hundreds of thousands of dollars and years of commitment on a clay model when your product is just another generic car that looks like literally every other car on the market.

[@user-wq9mw2xz3j]

you must be uninterested in cars. meaning you won't be interested in handling and learning about a car. which means you could be a safety hazard on the road if you're driving a car. just like many else. don't get a car.

[@rockspoon6528]

@@user-wq9mw2xz3j Screw off, I own and maintain my car with care and commitment.

[@user-wq9mw2xz3j]

@@rockspoon6528 no, that is not possible.

[@Zoldier92]

I agree. The car nerds need to shut up and do something else.

[@vaticinus]

I always thought this was a dumb idea and after watching this video I still do. Its the kind of thing you do when you have too much money. Like building a prototype you have no plans of ever putting into production.

[@piwbdwhwhhs439]

Tf😂

[@jaddyrose9318]

Exactly, the last mile will always be human handled because of finesse and personal care, well said!

[@Turboy65]

The simplest answer is that hands-on, in person contact with the new model is more informative than any 3D virtual reality simulation of it. To see it is one thing. To be able to touch it is to KNOW it.

[@Thomas_Smaling]

Love to be able to destroy one with a sledge hammer, seems like it would be fun

[@hydrocarbon82]

This means that BMW, Lexus, Nissan, etc paid $100's of thousands for those ugly mega-grilles to be cut from clay. And probably more than once, since they no doubt were even uglier in their first designs.

[@TheSultan1470]

Dumbest thing I!ve ever read.

[@Flaccid_Ramen]

Who else looked at the inside of the car in the thumbnail and went "cheese"

[@765lbsquat]

this looks fun. can't believe people can make lots of money doing a job that is so much fun!

[@kaizze8777]

that was a fascinating 5 mins well spent

[@Infernoblade1010]

Yes, let's spend thousands and thousands to make our care look virtually identical to every other car of its class.

[@TheSultan1470]

You just don't know the workings behind a car design. Everything is intentional.

[@Valyssi]

@@TheSultan1470 That may be so, but what matters is the end user. I can craft a dish meticulously, thinking about how every ingredient interacts with the others and about how this comes together in presentation, but most people just want something that tastes nice and satiates them sufficiently. Same with cars, a lot of people don't care about design, as long as it looks decent, and only care about reliability, cost and efficiency, mixed in with some brand loyalty.

[@TheSultan1470]

@@Valyssi Then go eat Mcdonalds lol

[@cobaltblue2756]

Idk clay is thousands dollar expensive..

[@keco185]

“Spend hundreds of thousands of dollars” So roughly the cost of a dozen cars. Or 10 minutes of production time

[@Slugbunny]

Had no idea that this was done in the auto industry. Good stuff.

[@onebridge7231]

Nothing beats being able to see a full scale model.

[@InnerTurbulencia]

That guys talking out of his arse at 3:20. Clay models are a TERRIBLE representation of aerodynamics due to lack of an engine bay, suspension, underfloor. Only total amateurs would use a clay model to check CFD, you’d have to laser scan the clay back into CFD for starters.

[@holzlaim2864]

Only an amateur - so all of the car industry 🤨

[@InnerTurbulencia]

@@holzlaim2864 you probably didn’t understand what I said “to check cfd”. Unless you make your cfd model identical to the clay it’s gonna give you an incorrect comparison. And if you did do that then you’re still not learning the effect of the real vehicle with mechanical parts Ps: it’s been my job for 15 years…

[@austincde]

Good point, No air gaps or anything lol

[@anthonys7976]

So, the models aren’t expensive, it’s the new technology being used to make the models that cost the most. Just have AI design the car at this point

[@dmglolmasterplays3353]

There is a car company that has done that, its called the Czinger 21C

[@podratic]

This approach, even following the detailed explanation, seems a little dubious. At the end of the process you’re still left with a less than perfect design. And let’s not fool ourselves; there are a lot of poorly designed cars that have been approved by this process.

[@TornaitSuperBird]

Well, poorly-designed is more subjective than objective. Also, the design for a car can be vetoed by higher-ups, forcing the designers to have to work according the wishes of the bigwigs. Theoretically, the aerodynamics of a car can indeed be perfected. The rest of the detailing can be left up to the designers, and that is subjective.

[@PlaAwa]

what's the next step in the process after the clay model is complete?

[@shreeom5106]

it is very satisfying and soothing to see clay work 😅

[@Akotski-ys9rr]

Amazing how they can create though perfectly smooth and curvy parts of the body in clay

[@christopherross8358]

Clay is my favorite material for developing prototypes and product designs. I like using Plastalina, and then making a mold and casting a wax or in mineral resin. Don't get me wrong, I love 3D modeling - but many times you get the right proportions and beautiful subtle details when you've worked it by hand. Also, clay sculpting is a sensory skill. Many times you pick up on the details of your form that your eyes become useless and have to feel it out.

[@RaiLace]

This is a fun and satisfying job. IMO

[@vidhoard]

This is so fascinating!

[@jimbomclimbo7467]

What do they do with the models after their done with them?

[@dspsblyuth]

The executives have sex with it and then crush it so it can’t talk

[@dangerdoberman]

People don't realize how much it takes to make a vehicle. Take care of them >:0

[@Morberis]

And yet almost all these vehicles end up looking like each other.

[@Techischannel]

I really want a life sized version of those clay cars now. Its prolly more expensive than the product, but i dont have to worry about passing theoretical and practical driving tests & exams before i'd ever be able to get a real version. Let alone having to pay a monthly insurance and risk it just rusting away. Plus it looks great and is some pretty nice decor. Much nicer than 3-4 basic geometric shapes arranged by a 3 year old in 0g Called "Eminecence of Beauty and form". Nothing against abstract art, i love it, but i am not much of a fan of 3 Donuts stacked like you would stack donuts.

[@kingoliever1]

Wait where are you from, in Germany you can drive on private property whiteout a license. Would look up the laws where you are but i think those rules are just for public roads.

[@Techischannel]

@@kingoliever1 But you need a licence to even buy a car ... even though you can indeed drive without a licence on private property if you are allowed to drive said car that is owned by a licence holder.

[@BrickShot-LEGO-builds]

When I went to a convention thing, they had this clay model, and anyone could just shape it a bit, happened 4-6 years ago, don't know about now

[@enelle5380]

The aerodynamic test was so cool ngl

[@lynnleigha580]

I think it's extremely smart to make a prototype, especially out of clay, you can add some and or remove some

[@thekeith-donovanexperience]

This is pretty neat and cool.