Why Danganronpa V3 Is A Beautiful Mess

[@NezumiVA]

Pinned comment: What's your favorite Danganronpa game, at the end of it all?

[@frisk8632]

V3 will always be my favorite Danganronpa game of all time

[@KittyKatty999]

I prefer playing Danganronpa 2 and it's story means so much to me, especially when I first found it in the darkest years of my life. V3 is my second favourite

[@decadryl]

danganronpa 1 still has my heart lol, most of the characters are really charming and the atmosphere is really nice

[@gave.]

Danganronpa 1 ..!! As sad as it is, the anime was what introduced me to the series 💀 but when I did slowly step into the game's territory, my appreciation of story writing and proper plot development grew. The first game helped me develop an interest for writing on my own. So even when story and visual-wise the other two games may excel, Danganronpa 1 will always be the most special for me.

[@phantomfalcon8104]

V3 has impacted my life the most out of any visual novel and it's something I'll always hold dear to my heart

[@emmagauthier9258]

My brother and I have a joke theory that every writing mistake in the characters and the story is all Tsumugi's fault for being around 20 and having to write the plot for 53 seasons of Danganronpa

[@antifascistamerican3782]

You know a series is going downhill when developers decide to let insane fans in on the creative process!

[@kkTeaz]

I now am imagining a drunk tsumugi going "but what if she just...died?...for incest?" Then proceeding to write the entirety of chapter 3

[@vampiricn1ght]

​​@@antifascistamerican3782 Man, so glad I'm here in my zodiac tee in a world where a massive niche franchise didn't fall off after replacing the writing team with all fans

[@brunosztuba3556]

That is literally stated when they mention the flash back light (more indirectly but still)

[@Micahmancer]

​@@vampiricn1ghtohhhh homestuck :")

[@YouCanCallMeIz]

One of the funniest hints to Shirogane's true nature ahead of time is that she claims to be incredibly plain, even wearing plain underwear, but when you get her undergarments at end of her events, it's not plain at all, instead having a black, red and white color scheme like monokuma, hinting that there's more to her than meets the eye. For the first time ever, the anime bs served the plot and I'm almost upset that it did.

[@necrodeus6811]

Chekov's underwear...

[@nyx9379]

I didn't even register that lol, not after i finished her hope thingy or after I finished the game

[@aheadsounds2522]

Imagine her giving her undergarments to Shuichi ( or from or for whatever reason he gets them in this why do you even get them) then he look at it and immediately accuses her of being the mastermind. That would be absurd in A lot of ways.

[@infiniteworld3981]

I guess in a society that basically worships Danganronpa, that kind of underwear would be pretty plain...

[@schmoneysworld3790]

So much of Tsumigis dialogue hits when you see her as the spectators she is. Sometimes she has genuine responses to stuff outside her character and it's funny.

[@evanchilson9829]

One detail that I absolutely love is how the promise during the first chapter that "everyone forced to play the game when the timer is up" actually came true. The mastermind killed Rantaro, the only person forced to play the game.

[@Naotosbiggestfan24]

OH, so he would of been murdered no matter what.

[@Yodah97]

Well, a lot of the prologue indicates that those videos that Shirogane showed of the participants were just fake. Everyone remembered being kidnapped before the first flashback light was used on them. Meanwhile, if Rantaro chose hope at the end of the last game, then he technically chose to be there. In his video, he even says to himself that he choose this killing game, so he has to win it. In other words, you can say that everyone BUT Rantaro and Shirogane would be killed. Which would have been interesting.

[@winterbonnie_8]

@@Naotosbiggestfan24 *would have

[@Crazygamergal]

Neat piece of trivia. Apparently kodaka REALLY wanted to go back and add more to rantaros story after hearing his English voice actor take of the character and becoming attached to it. And when he realised it was WAY past the point he could do that he legitimately cried. Feel kinda bad for him tbh.

[@corryjamieson3909]

Johnny Young Bosch really brings out the heart and soul in people.

[@Parfaitcookiestan67]

Aw that’s sad

[@m.l.7558]

He should have done it earlier, Rantaro is a captivating character and he deserves more: he is my favorite

[@m.l.7558]

It wasn't like this at first but Salmon plan is just that amazing. His Love Suite event also helps

[@comicsans3537]

Johnny is so good for these characters, istf 😢

[@teratoma.]

few cool things about ch3 that made it bearable when replaying: 1. all of miu's accusation gags end up being correct, they all point out kiyo as the culprit 2. shuichi is constantly sussing kiyo in blue thinking text in investigation and in trial (it's the only chapter in the game where that happens) 3. kiyo is the only culprit in history of official dr games who actually helps in the trial to appear less suspicious instead of staying quiet or being wrong/lying 100% of the time

[@JuanJose-fw1eg]

Miu actually correctly accuses every single culprit in every trial lmao: Tsumugi, Kirumi and Korekiyo

[@vyvadas]

@@JuanJose-fw1eg probably doesnt count, but if you think about it, she also got ch5 correct. she planned to frame kaito for kokichi's murder, so...

[@jigglypuff452]

@@vyvadas Waittttt

[@TheBadDeadFox]

@@JuanJose-fw1eg she was also the first person who jumped on the bandwagon of accusing Gonta being the culprit after Kirumi proposed her theory, so Miu kinda guessed her own culprit in a sense?

[@olives8274]

he was basically leading shuichi in the right direction and then got mad when he actually figured it out 💀

[@yarshmellow2323]

Man I was really hoping Saihara's lab would be opened earlier so that he could like dust for finger prints and shit. It would be a fun obstacle for all the killers to avoid and really give the labs a use other than "there are poisons in there"

[@amaiodayaka8926]

I think that it would also make for an interesting conflict for killers VS Shuichi, because Shuichi would be even more a threat to them. It would be interesting if for example, instead of Korekiyo killing by Angie because she was in a wrong place, wrong time, it would be interesting if he could try to kill Tenko AND Shuichi. You can even keep his motive, just add the thing of: "Oh, I can't let him destroy my plans" to the motive, and bam. Obviously Shuichi survives, because we already killed of the first protagonist, we can't kill of a dude!! Anyway, jokes aside, Shuichi could be basically on a verge of death and survive... But then Angie gets into the trap of Korekyio instead and dies. That would shake up things up and make all double-murders even more distinct from each others.

[@georgearbuckle7029]

That would have been pretty cool, I always thought it was really disappointing nothing came out of the binder of "how to commit murder" like it didn't tie it to the other games or any murders in the game. I was also annoyed that in no game the detective character was a victim in a case or (at least was the culprits initial target), because if I was there my first idea would be to try to kill the person who is really good at solving murders so he can't be there in the future. Furthermore, the best trials in my opinion are based around a method of murder forced out of a situation of creativity, where a premade Rube Goldberg Contraption is made to look like anyone anywhere could have committed the murder since they weren't near the body initially, or like nagito creating a situation where luck was the only way to solve it, or Gundham making a murder using an elevator where hes right with the rest of the cast at the end. Shuichis lab playing the same role as the chemistry room or the general store is pretty disappointing to me. If Shuichis lab could be used to find prints, test for blood types, find out time of death along with Maki using actual forensics, similar to (mikan heating up toe song venue to obfuscate the time of death) then the killer would be inclined to use a creative way of murder like purposely bleeding somewhere to give credit to their alibi. Shuichi being better as a detective overall makes a more interesting trial where it feels more like the player solved it by searching for clues and answering them, instead of just "monotaro told me about code cause he decided to be helpful."

[@irrelevanttroll3312]

"wow there are poisons in my lab in a killing game i sure do hope no one uses it for malicious evil purposes to commit homicide for selfish goals"

[@tenkosverse]

@@amaiodayaka8926 i really wouldve loved to see a scene where somebody attempts to kill shuichi. even if he got away, thanks to kaito and/or maki, it still wouldve become like. the 1# scene in all of danganronpa for me. like imagine how freaky it would be to run away from a deranged murderer with dramatic music playing and frantically pressing buttons to dodge the killers attacks. idk it just wouldve been so cool and it wouldve made v3 iconic.

[@infiniteworld3981]

Would be a cool idea, but if we follow the canon cases, it'd only come into play during Chapters 5 and maybe 1. Since Toujou and Shinguuji had bandages/gloves on during their murders and Chapter 4 happened in a virtual world...

[@tonybowman3382]

Korekiyo was the Ultimate Anthropologist. He was so talented that he followed a tradition he didn't even know existed. (3rd Chapter being a double murder.)

[@drillbitz2816]

And the case 3 botching an otherwise very interesting character. And the case 3 being a terrible case. And the case 3 having a terrible motive. And th

[@PramkLuna]

I really wish v3 broke the trend and actually had 2 killers that wwould bring a completely new dynamic to the series

[@Greg_176]

@@PramkLuna technically the the first games third case had 2 killers but like one was already dead

[@Aryan-qv5qk]

@@PramkLuna try playing sdra2

[@esense9602]

​@@Aryan-qv5qksdra 2, the 3rd trial is still giving me shittyytt vibes.

[@Nyahahameha]

My own funny experience with this game: During the Chapter 5 reveal about the outside world and the school actually being a space ship, I immediately became hugely suspicious of Tsumugi Shirogane. The reason: Tsumugi made a Xenoblade Chronicles X reference in Chapter 1, when she mishears characters talking about Miyu's "drone" as "Prone", the name of the race of the primary antagonists of that game. Because it's such an obscure reference, it stuck in my head, then the Chapter 5 reveal happened and it was basically the exact same as the premise of Xenoblade Chronicles X, ie Earth being destroyed and most of humanity being wiped out by an impossible-to-combat force from space, forcing a small contingent to flee into space to seek out a new home. It struck me as way too fitting to be coincidence. Because I was so suspicious of her, I immediately caught when she avoided using the phrase "give birth" near Motherkuma in front of everyone else, confirming my suspicion immediately.

[@brigittahegarini7162]

Dang

[@no-sky5595]

Same except it was with Gonta's execution. In trial 1 when Gonta attempts to explain what he was doing in the A.V. room, Tsumugi asks if Gonta was imagining himself as a praying mantis with swords for hands, and in Chapter 4 there was a giant praying mantis with swords for hands that stab Gonta on the spire. After three days of playing V3, I remembered what she said, and while I didn't remember any of her references since I haven't heard or played most of the games she references, that one question made me immediately suspicious and I knew the answer before chapter 6 even began.

[@Nyahahameha]

@@no-sky5595 Ohhhhhhhh my god! O.o Now I wonder just how many hints like these DRV3 drops that Tsumugi is the mastermind throughout it! How early can someone become suspicious of her from random crap she says like this?!

[@dustyfedora]

The Hidden Room Passage was basically the 11037 that gives away Tsumugi since if you remember chapter one well enough you know it throws out her Alibi for that case.

[@Nyahahameha]

@@dustyfedora Er...I said "how early", not "how late". O.o;

[@JDubs1464]

Why case 3 killers did a double kill: Celeste: I did it because I couldn't let my accomplice walk away aware of my crimes Mikan: I did it because I couldn't leave any witnesses to the crime Korekiyo: I did it because I fucking could Edit: Something else, I really wish Tsumugi cosplayed as some other original characters from the rest of the killing games, like some random girl with a puppet who was the ultimate puppet master who was the mastermind of the 20th game or something, they don't even need names, but just something to show the other games happened.

[@corisandecastan4078]

I think there's a dialogue in which Tsumugi says that it's pointless for her to cosplay into the characters of the 50 others killing games cause she has never gave them (the cast of V3) memories of them

[@friendbreakfast]

i do feel like the 53rd installment being supposed to be a "return to form" as its implied a bunch of times does make it okay for me to only have characters from the first games cuz irl, the more a franchise grows, the more nostalgic about its beginnings it becomes. like Scooby Doo keeps creating characters in all its movies and its been a LONG while since the hex girls first appeared, yet they're iconic from "the good times" so those are the only characters that are repeatedly reused, while the new characters are constantly forgotten and only appear in their debut movie. so in my eyes, it makes sense that "the big return, revival to 'what make the series special'" would only focus on the beginning stories.

[@venor2612]

Chad Kiyo

[@BossALKENO]

It’s almost like Tsumugi is a bad writer

[@venor2612]

@@BossALKENO the writer barely disguised fetish

[@dissidiana]

1:05:30 if you played the demo, you automatically get the item to unlock a really cute scene where amami paints akamatsu's nails and talks about his sisters, which sounds like exactly what you're looking for here. it's a shame so many great little scenes with unique cgs are locked behind whether you have a certain item or not in this series.

[@misteryA555]

That scene alone was enough to make me ship them. I wish we got so much more of both those characters

[@ariswish]

That was one of the cutest moments in dr for me, we've been robbed of one of the cutest relationships (friendship or otherwise) in this franchise because they both died in the first chapter :(

[@de-niall]

@@ariswish i saw it more as like sibling like relationship tbh

[@shelbybayer200]

It's also found in the Daily Life Academy/School mode

[@misirtere9836]

@@shelbybayer200 However, on your first playthrough, the opportunity to start the Nail File scene comes *BEFORE* it is possible to spin the Monomono Machine and obtain the Nail File. In order to get it in time to see it the first time around, you have to get the demo reward.

[@wormsarntspaghetti5644]

Shinguchi trying to slam the board down while singing is the absolute extreme version of coughing to hide a fart

[@Jasson_is_bored9653]

BAHA

[@scouttengu]

This legit made me laugh out loud

[@lxmonadee]

💀💀💀

[@danielmcdonagh1693]

Nowhere near finished this, but I just want to point out with the analysis of Ryoma's suicidal mindset that the scuffing on the handcuffs and sink indicate he was absolutely fighting for his life in the end. Everything Kirumi says is self-serving and should be understood in that light.

[@Cinnitimeee]

man i never thought about that... 😭..

[@LunaticFullMoon]

While I don't disagree that there's some ambiguity to how truthful Kirumi is being, I think Ryoma resisting her trying to drown him was just survival instinct kicking in. Drowning is a really slow and painful way to go, anyone would try to fight back against it no matter how suicidal. It's also entirely possible that he did surrender his life to her, but didn't expect her to try to kill him through that method.

[@venor2612]

Pretty sure that just instinctual Like you can't just except someone to stay still while being drowned

[@danielmcdonagh1693]

​ @Full Moon @Venor I don't think it matters if it's instinctual though. In that moment Ryoma wanted to live. The fact that Kirumi doesn't even mention there was any kind of struggle when it came to drowning him is enlightening, because she knows it would undermine her entire argument and destroy the sympathy she's trying to garner. If someone is stopped from committing suicide then the vast majority of times they don't make a further attempt. Putting even small barriers or inconveniences in the way can stop people acting on sudden suicidal impulses. If Kirumi had stopped drowning him when he struggled, do you think he would have told her it's okay and to continue, or would he say no thank you actually I've decided I prefer being alive? Obviously I believe the latter. Maybe Ryoma had a moment of willingness to sacrifice himself for Kirumi's sake, but in the end he resisted and she kept going. It wasn't suicide by maid, it was murder.

[@LunaticFullMoon]

@@danielmcdonagh1693 I'm not trying to claim that it wasn't murder, for the record, I'm just saying that Kirumi might not be necessary lying that Ryoma really did forfeit his life to her after hearing about her motive. I feel like anyone would regret committing suicide, but most of the successful ones are done in a way that kills them instantly and removes all possibility of regret. If Kirumi had killed Ryoma instantly by, I don't know, snapping his neck or something, would it then be considered suicide by maid just because he didn't have the opportunity to regret his decision? Kirumi absolutely tried to spin things in her favor by omitting certain details, but that doesn't mean she was actually being dishonest. She just said what she interpreted Ryoma's actions to be. Whether that's correct or not is left up to interpretation.

[@buttercupghost]

The only reason that Korekiyo had to kill Tenko is that he REALLY REALLY wanted to do the seance murder. He really wanted to do the seesaw. He put a lot of effort into it and thought it was SO COOL, I guess. Which is.... honestly kind of a funny reason to kill someone, but yeah, there's literally no other reason for him doing this and it was a very foolish choice to do so that doesn't make much sense. Shrugs, it's not a good reason by any means. But then again... so much of Korekiyo's writing and specifically motive is... Badly written indeed, for all the reasons you said.

[@kaylaHat]

That reason would be 100% justified if Junko was the one doing it. Would be out of character for her not to

[@venor2612]

Honestly while I'm not so hot on Kiyo's writing I don't see how that part is badly written He's literally a serial killer who literally do not care about anything other than sending friends for sister If anything him wanting to do the seesaw trick just because the idea was awesome make a lot of sense and that the hilarious part lol Like yea its foolish especially since he pulled off a perfect crime with Angie but it's not like he actually cares about that

[@kaylaHat]

@@venor2612 no but the point is that this explanation is absolute shit, you can't have the explanation be "oooh he's crazyyyy" that's fucking stupid, especially when considering his character before the reveal. that's why it's badly written, because this is a story and they can write ANYTHING and yet went with "he's crazy don't ask"

[@venor2612]

@@kaylaHat it would be badly written if it didn't make sense Except it unfortunately does, I'll say it'd mostly underwhelming I judge a story on what is it rather than what it could be. Because if I judge based on the latter, then it'll rather becomes what I want from it rather than what the author wrote in the first place And from how Kiyo has been written or portrayed it makes sense Again, underwhelming af but not necessarily badly written. Definitely could've done better for sure lol

[@kaylaHat]

@@venor2612 except the whole "he did it cause crazy" is a cheap way out for writers to make their characters do insane stuff without needing to find a motive. This is a murder mystery series, a murder having no motive because the murderer is crazy and that's that is bad. Especially considering Junko, Shyo, Nagito, Mikan and Haiji were crazy, but still had motives beyond that. Kiyo killing for his sister is a motive that works. Kiyo killing again despite it endangering him, when getting away with murder would've killed not just one but all the other girls, because he's crazy, is not a motive that works. The writers used a cheap way out of needing to look for a motive, and that's called bad writing. Even Tenko suspecting him would've been an actual motive!!!

[@doom9564]

I've been in the fandom for years and that's the first time I'm hearing about all those localisation differences THANK YOU

[@doom9564]

I am able to see the characters in a whole different way now that's so cool cause I was getting kinda bored of them

[@doom9564]

@@LightFrogs yeah true that sucks :(

[@alleyoliver3315]

4:31:00 Pretty sure it’s implied Kokichi didn’t actually write the clues! They were left for Rantaro, and he found them, using one to his own purposes and leaving the other to be hidden!

[@NezumiVA]

Think I missed this, yeah, but it makes a LOT more sense that way.

[@firespud]

i think it was originally horse a left there for rantaro, and kokichi added to it with his own message

[@venor2612]

@@firespud yea Kokichi adding "the world is mine - Kokichi ouma" But overall horse a and twin b were left by monokuma for Rantaro

[@aradiati0n]

@@venor2612 oh my god the google translate making this say music video lmao

[@daisanity6457]

@@aradiati0n SeKAAAAAAIIII DE

[@buttercupghost]

I love that the moment Kiibo gains free will he starts blowing up the entire school. That's so metal and honestly just tickles my fancy. Man, while I don't like the "robophobic" recurring joke for him, I do really love Kiibo.

[@pinxelated2799]

He's SO valid

[@m.s.5370]

Honestly, that whole robophobia-joke-schtick just reads to me as the kind of joke a reactionary would make about 'wokeness', about, "how much of a snowflake those [insert opressed minority here] are." It's neither funny (to me as a gay person), nor does it add depth to Keebo beyond establishing that he wants to be respected, which works fine for his introduction, but on any subsequent times, just becomes redundant. It's wasted potential, basically. Had they used the time spent regurgitating this very awkward attempt at comedy over and over again more wisely (like, setting up his 'inner voice' in advance, for instance), then maybe his final sacrifice at the end could've been more impactful. But that's just me, anyone else?

[@GaleGrim]

@@m.s.5370 I actually would have liked a reveal that like, when he say "that's robophobic" that it actually IS robophobic sometimes. a plot twist that YES he REALLY IS mistreated because he is a robot. The "It's a joke, on first viewing" kind of thing, then on a re-watch you know how he really dose struggle with that. It's was right there but they didn't use it. Makes me sad, I love when series take jokes and make them serious.

[@taanwallbanks9841]

@@GaleGrim wierdly enough the most actually robophobic character is himiko, I definitely remember her saying that if anyone were to die it would best be the robot, and believing that kiibo and monokuma were slightly amicable during 3-5 because they're both robots. Too bad kiibo barely reacts if at all when this happens.

[@daisanity6457]

@@taanwallbanks9841 His only actual reaction to this was just him ignoring and interrupting Himiko in chapter 6 whenever she tried saying she would turn him jnto a real boy as thanks for saving them in the library, but idk if that counts. But I mean, there's the fact that they just threw Kiibo in Chapter 2 if that counts for annoying robophobic moments. Or the seance scene

[@ejm1225]

I noticed that you didn't mention the contradictions between the game's prologue and Shirogane's claims, so I want to make a brief explanation. In the prologue, the students were kidnapped by Team Danganronpa instead of willingly volunteering in the 53rd season, and they all remember it happening. If they did volunteer, they probably didn't need to be kidnapped, and we would have seen them get excited over their participation. Not to mention that they don't seem to be fans of Danganronpa, neither did they recognize Amami (the survivor of the 52nd season), nor did they (excluding Amami and Akamatsu) recognize the Monokubs (the children of Monokuma). When they first met, Akamatsu and Saihara introduced to each other as "Akamatsu" and "Saihara" indicating that that's their true names instead of their blurred-out names. And about Saihara, Akamatsu, and Momota's audition tapes, the floor they were standing on looked awfully similar to the one seen in Shirogane's lab. This could indicate that Shirogane was "cosplaying" as these three, but how could she have done that with her weird "cospox" condition? Well, what if she was probably lying about her condition as a convoluted alibi for Amami's murder? And lastly, not too long ago, there was a tweet made by Kodaka, the creator of Danganronpa, stating for the player to revisit the prologue after completing the game, almost as if we shouldn't take what Shirogane said for granted. I could go over more details about this, but I read a few Tumblr posts that explains this theory way more than I could. I could link them if anyone's interested. Update: Alright, here are the links. danganronpaheadcanons.tumblr.com/post/176945366164/theory-tsumugi-lied-about-the-personalities-of onebizarrekai.tumblr.com/post/658375433214115840/ok-now-i-have-time-to-talk-about-the-v3-ending-for

[@mochhhhee]

If you still have that tumblr post it would be cool to read!

[@hallowedgears4243]

The cospox inconsistency really bothered me!

[@NIGHTBLOODUSAGI]

links?

[@sugaryvanity]

Links please

[@TalentedTrident]

@oreo6654 Actually, there is a discrepancy between the prologue and the flashback of the prologue in case 6. In the flashback, after a specific line, all of the contestants are like "oh yay we got chosen!"; however, in the prologue, those lines don't exist. You could say it was so the game wasn't spoiled, but if that were the case, the prologue could've just been cut off after the specific line. Instead, different dialogue entirely occurs, meaning the flashback from case 6 may or may not have been fabricated. You're correct that Kaede seemed to recognize the Monokubs (though that could be explained by her thinking they look similar to Monokuma), but the bigger issue is that nobody recognized Rantaro when they were all supposedly superfans. If his entire schtick was that he was a returning character, they all definitely would've figured out what was happening from his presence. Lastly, the big thing that contradicts everything is the cospox. Tsumugi supposedly cannot cosplay real characters. So, she can easily cosplay as Makoto, Junko, Kyoko, etc. But if the cospox were real, then she should've had no problem cosplaying as Kaede Akamatsu, Ultimate Pianist, since that is a fictional character. It's very likely that was used as a crutch for removing suspicion from her for any potential murder, so the remaining students couldn't just say "well Tsumugi just cosplayed as the culprit". In the end, though, we can't take her word for what cospox actually is at all, because it's a very clear contradiction to what the ending reveal tells us.

[@area52ron]

I kinda felt bad for Korekiyo as playing his free time events it’s implied that he was tricked and groomed by his older sister into thinking she loves him until he died is when he realized she doesn’t love him in anyway romantic by his sister exercising him

[@Mockingdragon]

One theme I find so fascinating in Danganronpa that's ever-present but never explored is *Identity and Memory*. Who am I, if not the sum of my memories? Who am I if my memories are erased? If they're implanted? It's never explicitly called out the way Truth and Lies or Hope and Despair are, but it's been there from the start and gets stronger every game and if I had any kind of video essay experience this is what I'd do. First game - "What did you do to my body?" IT's very much in the background but the students do grapple with their two missing years, and knowing that something happened to make them make choices they otherwise couldn't imagine making. Second game - the students are all factory reset to before Junko's influence. Are these (philosophically) the Remnants of Despair, as they were before they were taken in? Are they, without their memories of committing the crimes, responsible for sitting in judgement and punishment for them? These issues are ALMOST tackled but never quite addressed head on. Third game - geeeeeeezus, it's almost the whole point of the final reveals. *Who am I* if I'm a constructed series of memories that I know aren't true? Do I exist? There was a me before - am I that person? Or am I the person I was written to be, who remembers things that never happened? This is also part of why I wish the Real Ultimate Fiction was handled better...I want to grapple with these questions and the game doesn't quite.

[@alxndria1]

Great points all around!

[@imjustasconfusedasyou]

maybe i’m just so much of a fangirl that my favorite anytging will always be the most unexplored or “done wrong” because to me, i cna always fix it with head cannons and fanfiction and anything like that. i love danganronpa 3 so much because of the cool charcater, and just overall SUCH an intresting idea and plot. i love it all. i love exploring the characters and all of the plot lines and i LOVE exploring it all and hearing other people exploring the plot lines and characters. aus on aus on aus. i just wish the creators stopped with t he format of the killings, shook things up a bit more, or were able to explore themes and plots more (and ofc all of the fan service, incest, transphobia, racism, and just weird bits) i get why they couldn’t explore all of the characters but i still wish we got more. i have my probables with danganronpa, and v3, but i love it so much.

[@SuperFroakie82]

Not to even mention UDG, where Monaca leads Komaru into going on her big adventure and becoming a force of hope for herself just so she can crush her and make her a better vessel for despair, meaning that her character growth throughout the game was essentially manufactured by her and nagito

[@Wince_Media]

I already really liked case 4 of v3, but you made a fantastic point about Gonta that I didn't even realize. The idea about how there comes a point where people are driven to kill when even them just a few moments ago would never even consider a possibility. And the fact that these two gontas before and after that point, with our Gonta crying, asking why he would ever do such a thing... it makes an already sympathetic killer to one that absolutely heartbreaking. I think you gave me a newfound appreciation for this trial that bumps it up to being my favorite.

[@ioftenreplytodeadcomments8920]

@natalie7662 Because he lies?

[@e_eyster]

The absolute best part of case 4 to me in this one is that it actually is the easiest case in the game by far. If you ever just stop and step back once the trial has started, it would take absurd levels of shenanigans, even by DR standards, for it to be anyone but Gonta. However the game had spent the last 12-18 hours of gameplay beating it into you that Gonta would never do something like that. Brilliant in the fact that logically its comically easy as no one else could ever have done it just based on the rules of the virtual world, but it still becomes a massive blind spot for over half of the people who play the game because it goes against the established narrative.

[@buttercupghost]

I don't know if you point this out later on, but I wanted to note something about the first motive! Shuichi is right when he says Monokuma phrased it as "anyone forced to participate will die", but as we learn in the last act: none of them were forced to participate. They all volunteered. None of them would have died if Kaede didn't put her trap into action. Monokuma probably would have just proudly declared they were there by choice. He tricked them into killing when they didn't need to.

[@georgearbuckle7029]

There is actually one person who was forced and would die under those rules, rantaro! He accepted to be sacrificed in the 52nd killing game and agreed to be punished but he thought it meant death. Instead I'd argue he was forced to participate in the next killing game and was only informed until after his vote happened, giving him the survivor perk and so on. The first motive was set out to kill just rantaro then and if kaede didn't literally get the ball rolling Tsumugi probably would have killed him and create a trial for herself anyways, similar to how nagito just wanted the killing to start and forced a murder.

[@The_Ninja_Tree]

But at the beginning of the game all the characters remember being kidnapped, if they volunteered and signed up for the game why would they need to be kidnapped?

[@withercat]

Honestly as a huge kokichi stan im very glad he had his own small section and didn't overwhelm the video, too many v3 videos will overfocus on him and while I love him, he is in fact, not the only character or thematic element in this game actually! also eggman and monokuma should indeed kiss

[@imjustasconfusedasyou]

kokichi is SUCH a compelling and complex charcater!! he’s incredibly smart and mischievous and he’s whole personality is almost like a mask he puts on and in his final moments we see the real him, he’s almost had everything figured out since day one and i just love this little gremlin so much. if the trial is going in the worng direction he will lie and trick to get the discussion started again and we will soon find out the real killer. also he loves grape stuff, which fits him so much because (at least in my experience) everyone who likes grape flavored stuff likes it even when it tastes bad or like medicen, because yeah it tastes like shit that’s why i like it.

[@jewels3846]

I am still early watch and have no idea if eggman kissing monokuma is even actually mentioned. But i 100% support this

[@etherealcat69]

I hate kokichi to bits but i do have to say he is an amazingly built character and has a lot of development. i prefer him in the Japanese one compared to the English and he is more serious in that one compared to the english.

[@thelexicon7294]

@@etherealcat69This is exactly how I feel about Nagito. Can’t stand even the thought of him, but also: respect for his character development, especially in case 5. Basically, I get it, even if I don’t feel it.

[@melasnexperience]

Taken 3 playthroughs of V3 and this video for me to notice that the pink eyes on the shadows in the opening movie are all shaped like Tsumugi's regardless of whose shadow it is. The only one that doesn't seem to fit the shape is Ryoma's, but even then, it's still not quite his eye shape.

[@EmileeAria413]

I’m surprised that you didn’t mention Amami’s moment of characterization if you played through the demo and got Kaede’s one secret scene. It’s not much, but it shows that he’s kind, and just as interested in friendship as Kaede and most of the others. He’s just a little guarded and, as we learn later, has reasons to stay mysterious and distrustful of everyone. He still deserved more on plot required characterization.

[@leciece]

i feel like it would’ve been so easy to fix the protag switch issue by just.. making kaede a guy and shuichi a girl. that way they could keep their current personalities/roles and shuichi’s character development without the fridging aspect to it. it would also make the switch almost more of a change bc having a male protag wld be expected by this point, so to have the classic male, fairly outgoing protag die and be replaced by a female one that still has all of shuichi’s character traits would be a benefit to the story rather than a detriment imo

[@vanilla2663]

rightt plus the plot twist would’ve been much cooler to see as ur usual boy protag switches to a female protag once he’s claimed culprit. sure the female to boy protag was still interested to see but i would’ve preferred about what u said

[@NoodleNerd]

If I could guess why they didn't go for that direction, it might be because of the inevitable Parallels to Makoto and Kyoko, and having Shuichi and Kyoko be more constantly compared to just because of them having the same talent. But yeah I agree with you on that. It would've still felt more subversive instead of what they went with.

[@starsscapes]

i think it's less about the fact that akamatsu is female and more the fact that she's an active agent? like she's self-confident, she's positive, she's active in trying to help everyone escape. saihara's got nuance but imo he's just not as interesting, if they flipped the genders it would still be a little bit shitty to lose a character who's actively moving the plot forward in service of a character who thinks they're not as good as the rest of the cast for one reason or another

[@cupidpop]

society if shuchi was a girl

[@ramenbomberdeluxe4958]

@@starsscapes It’s both really, let’s be honest.

[@TheAsterik]

As someone with a dissociative disorder, Shinguuji really spoke to me as a character. Hear me out: Yes, while I wish he was written better and more delicately, the chapter 3 trial really cemented his place in my heart. I adore Fukawa/Syo, but I felt like their DID was almost done a bit too "cartoonishly" to really represent the experience I have. While my system has triggers that pull each person out, it's hardly ever as clear-cut as "switching at a sneeze" or "whenever you see blood". With Kiyo, though, it really feels like "Neesan" was an ever-present prosecutor, waiting and watching him and deriding him for every fuck-up or waver of 'dedication' to her. When Kiyo starts to sweat, when he really gets put in the spotlight, he panics - and his older sister, calm and collected and chiding him for his impending emotional breakdown - takes over to continue to ruin him. My own persecutor regularly hovers over my shoulder and tries to convince me that, for example, my friends all despise me, or that my meds are 'poison'. Clarence is a minor annoyance to me at this point, but I can just imagine if they weren't. I can easily imagine that, if I had gotten an introject of my old abuser, who told me they loved me and convinced me that there was nothing else to live for but making them happy, my life would be really different. So when I see Korekiyo, when I see that his older sister who SA'd him when she was alive and convinced him that it was a healthy relationship and that they were in love, when I see that she still haunts him and forces him to apologise for any slights, when I see that it's only on the verge of a panic attack and a full breakdown that she even tries to be kind to him... Man, that just strikes a chord. Shinguuji Korekiyo, who is usually filled with love and admiration for humanity despite feeling like an outcast from it, is one of the characters that I feel has the best and most subtle writing in V3. They dropped the ball on some aspects of his writing, but I genuinely feel like if it wasn't TREATED like 'haha funny joke! person with dissociative disorder is just crazy wacky! look he's wearing lipstick!! isn't that weird!!?!', he would absolutely shine as a study on familial abuse and a different kind of system than we're used to with Fukawa/Syo. (... Because DID isn't the only dissociative disorder to exist - there are many, on a wide spectrum!) ... Buuuut, this IS Danganronpa, and it IS Spike Chunsoft we're talking about. They don't handle subtlety very well. ANYWAY sorry for the essay! Your Danganronpa retrospective series has been absolutely fantastic! It's been a long trip down memory lane for me, and I've loved every hour of video you've made on the topic. This series will always have a soft spot in my heart despite its flaws. Thank you so much, Nezumi! I can't wait for your next projects!

[@thelexicon7294]

Thank you so much for sharing your perspective. This was incredibly helpful in understanding the potential that was there with Shinguji. It makes me long for a slightly more nuanced portrayal which would have made the non-DID audience sympathize where the DID audience can clearly empathize. It really underscores the unique and irreplaceable value of a diverse writing team. I imagine if a person with DID was involved in the writing process, both Fukawa and Shinguji could have been some of the best-understood characters in the franchise, the way we understand and sympathize with Ogami or Harukawa.

[@TheAsterik]

​@@thelexicon7294 You're absolutely welcome! Kiyo is a character really close to my heart, so I'm always glad for the opportunity to talk about how the narrative did him dirty, lol. I was admittedly kind of passionate about it in my first comment, going off of memory of the ch3 trial alone, but now that I went back and rewatched it, it's really sort of heartbreaking how Kiyo and Neesan interact. By the time they pin the murders on him, Kiyo is having a panic attack. His sister hops in to tell him to calm down, then immediately tells him to disregard his classmates as nothing but 'ignorant children'. He immediately goes along with her wishes, still trembling. The rest of the trial, he's going at a breakneck pace, doing his best to make his sister proud to the detriment of himself. Every time he starts to panic again, she cuts in, telling him "You mustn't raise your voice. You mustn't stutter. You mustn't lose your composure, you mustn't waver". It's like a mantra at this point - she keeps him in check by keeping him calm, reinforcing his goal to make 100 friends and never to falter from his dedication to her. Having someone in your brain telling you that the only way to be worthy of love is to suppress your emotions in service of them is a horrible and horrifying experience, and it's genuinely kind of sad that it's played off as a 'joke', with Miu and Kaito reacting in disgust and horror to the 'creepiness' of someone apparently talking to themself. ... I'm sorry, this message also got really long LMAO I just have a lot of Feelings! I just wish Kiyo and Neesan had a little more respect put into them in the writer's room, the way they obviously studied DID and made Fukawa and Syo a little more realistic in Ultra Despair Girls. But I also love the Shinguuji siblings that we got, so beggars can't be choosers ;P TL;DR: shinguuji korekiyo: is groomed into a relationship with his sickly older sister, when she dies he loses his mind and splits, forming an introject of her who acts as a prosecutor, urging him to become a serial killer and send her '100 friends' in the afterlife, aka going after girls he thinks would be good matches to hang out with his sister in heaven. she calms him down soothingly but is also explicitly dismissive of him and his emotions, saying that the people he's come to like and respect are nothing but 'ignorant children' and that he must 'teach them a lesson' the narrative: hehe isn't he so wacky??? he's wearing LIPSTICK under his mask!! what a silly billy! it's creepy he talks to himself right?? like holy shit you really boiled an extremely complex character(s) and situation down to a couple transphobic jokes and "what the fuck are you doing mumbling to yourself, knock it off"

[@cottonskittles3055]

@@TheAsterik as another system who loves korekiyo a lot im so so glad someone else feels the same tbh.. if you take away the serial killing thing, i think on his own korekiyo could be a fun character to explore and i wish he was uh. in a way more caring franchise because man he deserved better than to be the "haha look at this trans psycho" joke (

[@yikesmydude5641]

Definitely a plural to plural type thing (as in a case by case basis). For us we don’t have much barriers in control so we get “switched” pretty easily more like Toko and Syo, even though we have full memory sharing. I also appreciate that this game seems to depict the real experience spiritual plurality, even though as you said this is danganronpa and it’s not very well done lol. I think danganronpa as a series probably shouldn’t have included these characters simply because there’s not a good way to inform the audience (who Is likely to be very ignorant on the subject) in its specific genre, especially with its tendency to be overly satirical to the point you can’t actually tell if it’s meant to be a joke or not and to use certain tropes both to be subjective and stereotypical 😅 I do also agree with your point about portraying both how systems can be rather well working and amicable (with the later version of the Toko/Syo system) and the experience of a very disordered, harmful system type that really doesn’t help the host/general system at all! Coulda been better, of course, but not the worst for sure

[@jemjimjam5444]

It's actually good to hear an opinion on this representation, if you feel comfortable calling it that, of people with DID who actually has it. It's obviously not something the average person can really understand the everyday experience of but what you had to say was genuinely quite interesting to listen to and nice to hear how someone with DID feel about these characters - that being Toko/Syo and Korekiyo in the case of Danganronpa ofc.

[@breakfastsquad9871]

Something that I think puts the English dub above the Japanese is the fact that the entire cast consists of returning voices. This works as both a neat call back as well as a hint for the finale while also being extremely cost effective. If the original Japanese had done this, I believe that they could have possibly included DR3 and UDG characters for Tsumugi to cosplay, as I was told that the reason they didn’t put those characters in was because they couldn’t afford to hire that many voice actors.

[@lindyxyo4254]

I think the English VO is amazing. I mean it is a 50+ hour game with like 80% of the game being dialogue. Hell would freeze over before I'd play through the whole thing in a language I don't speak. That would totally kill the experience for me for a VN.

[@jopersoniusker4268]

In my personal headcanon, Shirogane had extensive vocal cord surgery preformed on all the participants to make them sound like characters from the previous games. The real Shuichi probably had a voice that sounded like Gilbert Godfried, but after a couple hours in the surgery chair, he now sounds like Leon

[@daevious_]

I appreciate the English dub for picking the most meta casting choice possible: Shuichi is voiced by Leon; the first killer of Danganronpa. Tsumugi is voiced by Sayaka; the first victim of Danganronpa.

[@KM11555]

i was sick when i was at chapter 6 of v3 i was so tired that i thought i was day dreaming because of all the weird shit going on it was truly a memorable experience

[@Gankstomper]

Are you still sick and tired? Because you typed that comment like a toddler.

[@phrog5009]

yo calm it with the rudeness (which is frankly uncalled for, and also pretty wrong)

[@Bag2218]

Not gonna lie. As many times as I've gone through this entire game...not once did it ever cross my mind just how much the motive behind Korekyio's second murder made absolutely no sense. You are 100% right. There was no reason to kill Tenko because if he got away with killing Angie then she'd have died anyway. The only reason I can think of that might possibly justify his actions is that Tenko could have been a "just in case". So that if he failed to get away with killing Angie, he still had at least two of the three "friends" he wanted to send to his sister.

[@MIAM_MIAM_CUISINE]

I've also seen people theorise that, given both Tenko & Angie were killed by a stab to the back of the neck, it's possible that Kiyo's Modus Operandi requires his sister's "friends" to be killed in that specific way, which isn't much of a rebuttal given if that's the case it should really be more explicit in the text but it's at least something I thought was an interesting idea that'd explain a few of his more nonsensical actions.

[@YightLagami]

He said he wanted to do the Seesaw killing because it would be a waste for all the set up he did on it. This is just a funny reason just so he wanted to flex his kill set up.

[@RealityMasterRogue]

I figured they needed to be killed by him specifically, so them being executed by monokuma wouldnt count

[@paul_particularlyunhappynut]

@@RealityMasterRogue Not to mention, getting away and having monokuma kill all of them would also include killing miu and maki. Which are considered unworthy for sister

[@carlodavies9227]

He just wanted more friends for his sister 😭😭😭

[@WistfulWeather]

I'd argue how fast Kaito reaches to physical violence or belittling people for what he sees as weakness, especially what he does in chapter 4, is enough to show that while he's admirable, he is also flawed and needs to be grounded by the presence of Shuichi and Maki I think viewing it that way is better than suffering needless homophobia and transphobia from one of the core characters, anyway

[@NezumiVA]

Oh without question. Like I said, I do _not_ want that content, lol.

[@nineteenseventyfive6709]

@@orga7777 it is a slur? Many people in Japan still use that word in a discriminatory way against queer people. It’s like saying that the f slur in English isn’t a slur just because SOME gay people reclaimed it. Far from every gay person is okay with using that word, and far from every gay or trans person is okay with using that word in Japanese either.

[@FuzzyImages]

Oh yeah, I still really like him though. He is a lot of toxic masculinity, but crammed in a genuinely well intentioned and selfless guy.

[@harlothex3326]

idk i never liked kaito from the beginning, and i grew to despise him when he grabbed makis arm and dragged her around. the fact that he tends to resort to violence and whatnot... don't like him. obviously, everyone can have their own opinions but i just could never get into his character EDIT: got to the point in the video where she talks about the localization of kaito removes some of his characters nuance. i think she's right that this error removes depth in a way that makes him idealistic and dumbed down in a sense. just knowing that he's homophobic and transphobic actually makes me *like* his character more. he's flawed, in multiple ways, and even though i wouldn't like him as a person, it's very needed to add depth of character, so now ill be able to appreciate him more. thank you, nezumi.

[@horizontalnoodlelmao4286]

​@@harlothex3326why would Kaito trying to bring Maki out of her shell make you despise him more than everyone else who wanted to either tie her up or isolate her further lmao

[@jamesbarr4996]

So my thoughts on the...abnormal amount of incest in this particular game is because the creators were trying to do a commentary on writers unsubtly inserting their fetishes into their works, as the Tsumugi Love Hotel shows that she's very much into the idea of a taboo brother-sister relationship. Unfortunately, this commentary falls flat on its face and dies a horrible death because 1) the Love Hotel scene is optional and easy to never encounter since you kind of have to do it on purpose and 2) the writing for the incest subplots is played completely straight, as something you're meant to simply accept and understand as how things work now, which doesn't really lead any credence to the idea of it being a commentary on anything. In the end, it really just looks like the creators inserted their own weird fetish into the game instead of making a commentary on the people who do it. And that's not even mentioning the fact that they didn't have to pick incest. No one forced them to choose that. They could have done literally anything else--make Tsumugi a furry or something, but no, they have to go all out only for it to blow up in their face. So it's still bad, but I don't think the ONLY purpose was for the horrid shock value...although I'm sure that played a big part in it as well.

[@jamesbarr4996]

@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 What I meant is--the whole incest thing is written in a “this is a thing that’s happening now” kind of way where there’s little to no actual acknowledgement toward it by anyone in the cast despite the fact that it is literally incest and, to the viewer, that kinda writing conveys the idea of “this is now how the world of the story works, don’t think about it”. Does that makes more sense?

[@pinxelated2799]

You're so true bestie. What was that quote on satire again? "If your audience sees your satire as sincere, you've failed" or whatever.

[@starsscapes]

@@pinxelated2799 i believe you're looking for poe's law: "satire requires a clarity of purpose and target lest it be mistaken for that which it intends to criticize"

[@pinxelated2799]

@@starsscapes thanks man

[@danielsadler3488]

My headcanon on top of this too is: "Well why does Tsumugi fetishise this so much?" I reckon due to the relationship with Junko and Mukuro, and even though IF is non-canon, it's telling on how toxic and incestuous that was too, and how that relates to Korekiyo and "sister"...

[@twonio]

It seemed pretty clear to me that Korekiyo was sexually abused by his sister from a young age considering their supposed age gap and the way she treats him. Of course his execution was conceptualised by the mastermind and monokumas but I think the fact that his sister dissolves him in salt probably also indicates the truth: that she was a horrible person who manipulated him so that she could exert some control over something in the throes of her illness, a despicable action

[@m.l.7558]

How does she treat him? Is it in the free time events?

[@ocaradasmaoladobokunohero]

@@m.l.7558 I know this comment was made 8 months ago but just to briefly explain, they were talking about when Korekiyo snaps during the 3rd trial and his "Sister's spirit" starts to talk to him when he pulls down his mask. You can see that she is very controlling of his every action, saying "You mustn't waver, you mustn't stutter", and even dictates when he should give up and admit his crime, saying "There are times when it's necessary to admit defeat".

[@krisk0meiji]

i will say that part of the reason why korekiyo's abuse isn't treated seriously is just danganronpa once again being bad at handling dark topics, but i think part of it also has to do with his gender. abuse of men and boys is oftentimes dismissed, both in real life and in fiction, and this is especially true when the abuser is female. something tells me that if korekiyo was a woman who was abused by her older brother instead of a man abused by his sister, the writing would be considerably less victim-blamey

[@KiraTesla]

Definitely. Not that the DR team handles abused women especially well, but certainly with more sympathy.

[@kingxcalico]

In response to you saying that its indefinite that the V3 Cast signed up for the KG; I always felt like it wasn't exactly Canon that the cast willingly signed up for the Killing Game. As the whole scenes of everyones former selves being put into their shsl costumes, and then being excited about getting in, never happened. Instead, PG Kaede states she was kidnapped, recognized the monokubs and seemed as though she was scared and knew what was instored for them. I always theorized that Team DR kidnapped their participants instead of them actually signing up for it. I always thought that door was left open, as Tsumugi's "cospox" could've been a lie, and you can see the set that the "auditions" took place as one of the sets that can switch out, in the back of Tsumugi's Lab. So I always felt like that was open to interpretation idk.

[@NezumiVA]

I do think that’s the case yeah, it’s open. I just personally think it’s more interesting if they did willingly sign up.

[@kingxcalico]

@@NezumiVA Thats fair! That seems to be the case for most the fanbase :0

[@BlueHollow]

were tsumugis cospox never confirmed or at least implied to be fake? cuz i always thought that you were supposed to realize that it was fake when she got revealed as the mastermind

[@kingxcalico]

@O Reo It definitely still has basis on account of Kaede's original reaction to recognizing the monokubs being that of fear, and then immediately after thry get hit with the flashback lights. The scene of them being excited is only what Tsumugi tells them happened, but the prologue leaves room for interpretation. Im not saying that this theory is canon, Im saying its left open ended on purpose. The fact that one of the games main themes is that "the truth is in the eye of the beholder", also kinda supports that we don't know for certain if what happened in the prologue and what Tsumugi tells us we miss, is a solid fact. There's a few gaps left on purpose is what Im saying

[@DLxxx]

Yeah, I got a similar impression of that too. Team Danganronpa are ABSOLUTELY still a real thing (this is confirmed by the outside of the dome having their logo plastered all over it during the epilogue, as well as their studio being present in the title screen), but it's possible they don't always take their "actors" willingly. As for Tsumugi's cospox.. I'm not sure that's something she'd be physically CAPABLE of faking, lol. I know she's the ultimate cosplayer, but she can't just magically make her skin turn pink whenever she wants (especially since she couldn't predict that Kaede would ask her when she did). Rantaro is a special case, considering he already went through a prior killing game and clearly knew _exactly_ what was going on in the prologue. I wonder if he tried to escape having to participate in another killing game, only to be captured anyway... 🤔

[@mdg245]

I find myself fascinated by the concept of volunteering for a killing game only for you as a person to be overridden with false memories and basically becoming someone who never consented. What does is mean to return to a world where you as you are never existed and the you from before no longer does? When your whole sense of reality is just immensely different from the real world. The last trial had me in a bit of an existential crisis by the whole thing. I also like to think that while people liked the Danganronpa show, most people, or at least a vocal minority, were on Twitter and KZbin discussing how problematic the new season of DR was and how nobody should be watching or supporting it.

[@buttercupghost]

Okay, I hadn't said anything because it's probably just a coincidence, but every time now that I've gone on KZbin and seen a premiere for this series, I've been sick. A few times "going to the hospital" sick. How crazy is that? I'm starting to think you're psychically linked to my sickness.

[@NezumiVA]

Haha, gosh I really hope not! Hope you feel better soon!

[@ginorincon9183]

Get well soon, Buttercup!

[@lizziej6484]

Down an entire bottle of vitamin c whenever she announces a new video lol

[@ginorincon9183]

@@lizziej6484 Nezumi: "new video releasing on Saturday!" Buttercup: "Hello, hospital? I would like to reserve a room for Saturday..."

[@KoreInWonderland.]

Well at least there are no more main line games to send you to the hospital! Get well soon!

[@sirius_raspberry]

I was a bit disappointed to see that Himiko wasn't mentioned that much in chapter 3's segment, since not only do I see it as both the emotional core of the trial, as well as what kickstarts a large shift in her trajectory as a character, and what makes it's handling of the whole "double murder" setup work for me in this chapter. The trial plays along a bit with the idea of a "meaningless death" in regards to what happened to Tenko. By going along with the idea that Tenko's murder doesn't matter in terms of who's supposed to be prosecuted in the trial, it's pushing the idea that Tenko essentially died for nothing, which is an incredibly cruel thing for Himiko to have pushed in her face by the circumstance. It's through her belief that Tenko's death wasn't meaningless that they were able to crack the case wide open and break through the seemingly airtight alibi of Angie's death. I'm not going to argue that this case was handled perfectly, GOD no, but I think that there's a lot more to it on different levels that I don't see acknowledged that much. Also while I completely agree that the motive behind the second murder was really dumb, I like to imagine it as him going "Well, I went through all of this trouble to plan out and set this up and it's gonna be REALLY stylish, it'd be a shame for it to go to waste..." (This isn't justifying it, I just think it's a funny way to look at it)

[@NezumiVA]

I like Yumeno's focus in the third trial, yeah, but most of it's utterly spoiled for me by the rest.

[@sirius_raspberry]

​@@NezumiVA Yeah that's entirely fair

[@ahnhyungseobhaveyoulearnth8286]

@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 it’s their video. make one better if you wanna and don’t be so randomly rude.

[@StafkiGTN]

....Wait, Himiko had a shift in characterization?

[@jezoye]

I got a hidden scene shortly afterwards where Himiko practices mage poses with Gonta and Shuichi, and it really got me in the feels. Himiko trying to come out of her shell, and Gonta especially wholeheartedly supporting her.

[@Hey-Its-Dingo]

I thought it was a clever choice for NDRV3's dub cast to be entirely actors who have been in a Danganronpa game before. (Maki's VA, Erica Mendez, was only in Ultra Despair Girls, so there was some rep. Lol)

[@ForrestFox626]

I loved that. Especially with Shuichi and Tsumugi, felt like it came full circle.

[@Little_Eris]

I do kinda wish we got new VAs for the ndrv3 cast though. Even though a lot of them were good in their roles. I’m pretty sure they brought them back due to budget.

[@SuperFroakie82]

Honestly, I thought Gonta being clearly plenty smart and capable in spite of his caveman speech in the localization was an interesting subversion of the trope, which was definitely helped by the dub’s voice acting, in which he has a very normal sounding voice that clashes with his caveman speech. Maybe the localization obscured this a little bit but it was still clear enough to me personally.

[@twonio]

One small issue I did have with the outside world reveal in chapter five is that it's all well and good that everyone fainted because they couldn't breathe, but...surely Kiibo doesn't need oxygen? So why would a lack of oxygen cause him to faint? Can he even faint? Was the air so bad that it blocked his cooling fans like a computer or something? Did Team Danganronpa conveniently rig him to shut down at that moment? It's never explained exactly what happened to him when everyone else fainted, and I guess it doesn't really matter, but logically he shouldn't be nearly as affected if at all by a lack of oxygen. Why would a robot's body shut down in an atmosphere that human lungs can't breathe in?

[@cieldaube]

my problem is more so the fact that if in the end it's revealed that the outside world is just all well and good (visibly so) in terms of having oxygen to breathe in, does that mean the chapter 5 outside world reveal causing everyone to faint out of a lack of oxygen was an act by all the characters? it couldn't have been because they didnt even know they were acting, so why did they faint? did they faint because of the shock of the reveal? how does that work out for k1bo?

[@twonio]

@@cieldaube I imagine that Tsumugi was able to create some kind of sealed set that looked real that she could fill with air that isn't breathable (either by removing the oxygen from the set in a controlled way, or by filling the set with gas that humans cannot breathe/anaesthetic). Team Danganronpa obviously has a lot of funding and resources, so it's not implausible that they could simulate unbreathable air artificially. I imagine that they could have similarly deactivated Kiibo or taken back control of him temporarily to make him faint, but I find it odd that nobody questioned the fact that he apparently also lost consciousness

[@olives8274]

i mean honestly with the budget "team danganronpa" had i wouldnt be surprised if he was an andriod. or like some half human half robot thing. because keep in mind, during the prologue he seemed to be a normal guy just like the rest of them, but in game he prints pictures out of his mouth and becomes MECHA ffs. so my personal theory is they somehow implanted him with a bunch of robot parts so he could be the "ultimate robot"

[@twonio]

@@olives8274 If I remember correctly, androids are fully robotic beings - they just look like humans - so yes, Kiibo is an android. As for him being partly human, like a cyborg or something, I feel like if Kiibo had been partly human, he probably would have noticed at some point, or Miu would have, since she was literally digging around in his chest cavity and stuff, and fiddling with his code/body to give him new features. It would also have been difficult for Team Danganronpa to take complete control of him at the end if he wasn't fully mechanical, and things like being thrown at a fishtank and having rubble fall on him during the game would probably have caused much more severe injuries than they did if he had organic body parts - which suggests to me that he was indeed entirely mechanical. Furthermore, he is very very heavy for a human his size - 89kg - but does not appear to be a particularly heavily built person and indeed is quite weak. If he were a cyborg, his lean human parts would probably struggle to support the presumably very heavy metal parts of his body, potentially not even being able to support them. Even in the prologue, where he seemingly looks more human, he barely fits into the presumably made-for-human-use clothes he wears, nearly bursting out of them - which I'm pretty sure is because he was just wearing a school uniform over the top of his mechanical parts. The black lines on his face seem to be purely aesthetic and serve no actual purpose that we know of. As a result of all these factors, I'm pretty sure he is fully robotic in the game, though there may have been a human Kiibo prior to the game whom the one we know was based on in some way - perhaps they managed to upload his personality into a robotic body or something, memory-free

[@olives8274]

@@twonio sorry i meant cyborg, whenever i think of futuristic robots i think of star trek thats why i said i thought he was an android😭tbh you have a good point with the miu thing, she probably wouldve noticed that kiibo had actual organs unless they were buried underneath a LOT of mechanical parts. i had a whole paragraph here but then i realized something LMFAO. now that i think about it maybe they just transferred his consciousness/ made yet ANOTHER alter ego. bc you know how much team danganronpa likes to reuse plots yk

[@imapotato1252]

The dub voice acting for Gonta in cases 4 was so good you could feel the pain in his voice

[@olives8274]

i love his va sm

[@thanatoast]

Something I find very interesting about the end of V3 is how much it was kinda ahead of it's time. The danganronpa fandom pretty much became exactly the type of fandom it was trying to criticize

[@mightbeorganz]

ikr all the danganronpa characters would literally hate us for murdering people they loved and begging for more, and even when the series ends we end up making our own games because of how much we love danganronpa😭

[@SlavoidUkr]

@@mightbeorganzmy brother in Christ they’re not real

[@mightbeorganz]

@@SlavoidUkr oh fr i never noticed

[@downbeatdialga1341]

3:58:42 I love the little hint that Shirogane gives to us at this point that she knows more than she lets on, cuz her whole character is referencing different forms of fiction or anime. Very meta of her to bring up Junko and Mukuro’s dynamic given the big twist of V3 regarding fiction vs reality, as the game’s twist plays back into her knowledge of fiction~

[@alexhirsch5738]

I think the main narrative purpose of the necronomicon in 3-3 (besides driving the murder) is to get the characters (and us by extension) to question Monokuma's complete dedication to the notion that the ritual, if perforned correctly, would work. What does that mean and how could it be possible for someone to come back to life? In the context of the ending of the game, it likely means grabbing another body off the street and re-brainwashing it with the same memories, but the characters and audience at that point don't know that. The necronomicon serves to make you question the nature of the killing game and how Monokuma can flippantly assert that such a thing is easily possible when it shouldn't be.

[@sheenyhive]

I thought about this a bit, and looking at it this way does make some narrative sense, but the "nab some random guy and brainwash them into a dead character" part feels like throwing a huge wrench into things. Even if it's possible to do that *and* brainwash the students into thinking the random guy in question is their dead friend brought back, the audience watching the show could clearly see that the "Kaede/Rantaro/whomever" isn't the same one from before. The same audience that went gaga over the cast in the ending (shout-out to that one fan thirsting for Shuichi) would probably call bs over "screwing up their fave" or whatever and I doubt Team DR would risk that controversy given the implication that they're already running on fumes by season 53.

[@imjustasconfusedasyou]

because i the context of this version (danganronpa being a show and all of this is fake in one way or another) i think that instead of grabbing someone off the street and re brainwashing them with the same memories, i think that the DR people running the show would instead just bring in the person the characters brought back and put them back into the show, with no knowledge of the world outside of the show anymore. kinda like matpat or someone eles in joey graccficas escape the night.

[@emilornbrynjuson1494]

@@imjustasconfusedasyou I always imagined they'd do it to the person using the book. Like I remember the instructions saying someone will tap you on the back when you finish it, that's totally Tsumugi/someone's cue to use the flashback light. It'd make for a really weird but interesting motive if it came to pass. Yeah, you'd get someone back, but someone ironically dies in the process, and the dead person now inhibits their body. Could even be a fun murder, the reveal that Angie secretly used the book already and that it was actually Rantaro in her body committing the crime for whatever reason.

[@samkathryn4825]

My head canon is the messiness of the case and the later inclusion of Kaede’s twin was because Tsmugi planned to bring back “Kaede” and later have a twin mastermind reveal to call back to Enoshima/Ikusaba, but Angie’s decision to revive Amami instead required a change.

[@danielsadler3488]

​@samkathryn4825 honestly, this is a pretty cool idea, just wanted to reply to say that!

[@akikihou]

Might I include, since Kiyo is a literal serial killer, it’s weird they didn’t make him sleuth as a serial killer would be. If he did it so many times and not get caught, how tf did he mess it up? (I still love him doe)

[@Nairda442]

Did he ever talk about his sister before any of the flashback lights? Maybe, like Kirumi, he just got told about his "serial killer" stuff as a forced motive to murder.

[@onettaviator5396]

​@@Nairda442 His free-time events.

[@DLxxx]

@@Nairda442 Nah, he brings up his sister explicitly in his Free time events with Kaede. He even implies that he'd eventually kill her so she and his sister could "meet." Unfortunately, it's been present from the beginning.

[@olives8274]

well theres only 16 students, unlike the millions of possibilities for real world murderers

[@ocaradasmaoladobokunohero]

@@DLxxx I gotta say that I do like the idea of Korekiyo not initially remembering any of this, since I know there's also a time in Chapter 1 where he does say he wants to go back home and spend time with sister, saying she's terribly lonely, something that seemingly implies she _isn't_ currently with him. Hell, the way he is written initially on Chapter 1 is EXTREMELY different from how he suddenly goes crazy in Chapter 3. In Chapter 1, he despises Monokuma, says that risking their lives for this "silly game" is absurd, he expresses that he, too, expects everyone to escape safely, in the next morning he says he's glad there appear to have no victims, and when the time limit is coming up, he is fully okay with accepting his death with everyone else, choosing to spend what are supposedly gonna be his last moments eating in the dining hall. Furthermore, he even makes it clear that he's self aware that he looks creepy and like a murdered when Kaede comes to ask for his alibi in the first case. Overall, Korekiyo was initially someone who really seemed satisfied with just watching others, didn't mind dying with them, and didn't plan to kill anyone. And yeah, you _could_ say that it's just him trying to gain everyone's trust, but then why didn't *he* take the First Blood Perk? If he really was a serial killer, he could've killed someone then and there, gotten away scot free, and possibly even send a friend to Sister in the process if he chose to kill a girl! Then why did he just accept his fate to Monokuma's time limit? And why would he casually admit to Kaede that yes, he is aware he looks like a killer? That doesn't seem like something a cunning and deceiving killer would do. My point is, Korekiyo has an extremely jarring change in character when he suddenly becomes a crazy serial killer for Chapter 3, which yes, is pretty likely just a result of awful and lazy writing, but I personally like to think that he just ended up regaining fake memories of his relationship with his dead sister and being a serial killer. I can't say _when_ exactly this happened, but it's definitely a more interesting idea than Kodaka just going "Damn. I need a crazy serial killer for this case".

[@azoreaneve4777]

Thank you about the logic complaints in the 3rd murder!! I was so confused during the trial because I refused to believe anyone had magically put that sickle there without it being noticed PLUS that no one heard the culprit move in the room while everyone was singing. I struggled a lot through those parts of the trial because CLEARLY the murder had to be done from beneath the room and no one in the seance could be the culprit. I guess we're supposed to instead believe everyone has terrible hearing.

[@MxPokirby]

This series retrospective has meant a lot to us. We're glad to finally see it come to a close. The way you talk about this franchise's many peaks & valleys just feels really thoughtful in a way we're not really used to from... most people on the internet, tbh. Thank you for all the hard work you put into these. We think it really paid off.

[@thelexicon7294]

@Saint Motel There is a chance that: ● OP is just using pronouns in a way in which you're unaccustomed ● their account is run by a group of people ● they're a system and are speaking as a plurality ● they watched this video with a group ● English isn't their first language ● they looked at the like count and realized that they are, in fact, speaking for just about everyone It's ok to let people speak without policing them.

[@0ctopusComp1etely]

While I mildly find that killing Kaede is "an example" of Fridging a girl... gosh darn it, it's done so well that I still can't hate the fact it happened. It's really more of a mentor figure dying to teach their pupil one final lesson than a traditional, super problematic fridging. I certainly understand anyone that would be mad at the twist- I wanted to play as Kaede too. But man... the realization that she was an unreliable narrator, the reveal of her own character depths, and especially the hud transition to playing as Shuichi... it's just so good. She could have run away, using the Freebie kill to get out scott free, but she doesn't. She could have just tried to fight Monokuma like everyone else wanted, but she tries to take matters into her own hands. She could have pushed Shuichi to ONLY use the truth to find the truth, but she lies almost constantly. She sets him on the thematic path of the whole game, a push so much stronger than a simple trope can imply. Her own arc was effectively complete by the end of the chapter. She's a fantastic character, and Chapter 1 may have made me sad sending her off, but it gave her the respect she deserves.

[@henrynelson9301]

I wouldn’t call it fridging tbh, it takes an entire chapter to build up, and it’s a genuine surprise, not cheap shock value.

[@hiddenscorpiusXI]

I always thought that the "horse a" and "twins b" messages were left there from the beginning, for Rantaro to find. Because Rantaro died though, Gonta and then Kokichi ended up learning of it; he was already planning to up end the mastermind somehow, so he used "horse a" message to cleverly turn it into "this world is mine -Kokichi Ouma". He probably then spotted "twins b" who knows when and made his not-will, knowing it'd help whoever find the message too and then make the connection. If one thinks that he wrote down "horse a" on that stone, then one has to assume he's been to Rantaro's Lab, which is behind of no less than *4 concrete walls,* which is veritably absurd.

[@twonio]

I do think elements like the Necronomicon add to the unhingedness of the narrative in a way that makes a lot of sense if you consider the finale reveal: if this is a show on its last legs, a plot thread as crazy as that coming in and then barely being used actually makes sense. It's also in a way a hint that this Danganronpa isn't like its predecessors, which have never flirted with the supernatural like this. It really hammers home that something is wrong with this particular Danganronpa - that it's trying really hard to set itself apart, and is even more artificed and curated than previous instalments. Do I think this was intentional? Probably not. But it's a clever excuse

[@min0uet]

Well, ghosts are confirmed to exist when Komaru Naegi is possessed by one, canonically. And sure, Another Episode isn't a mainline game, but if we're speaking of those, Hagakure's talent is fortune telling. And although there are endless jokes about his supposed 30% success rate, I've seen more than one person point out that in the most technical sense, every prediction he makes ends up being true somehow. So I don't think saying Danganronpa has never flirted with the supernatural would be correct- but I agree that the Necronomicon being outright used as a motive is so outlandish that it definitely seems like a desperate jump-the-shark move by the writers of the show.

[@twonio]

@@min0uet I guess that did happen in Ultra Despair Girls, but it was such a silly ridiculous scene that it's really easily to gloss over it as a viewer, dismissing it as a gag. It's not like that plot point is particularly influential or memorable the way the Necronomicon is, and it doesn't really have an emotional impact like the promise of reviving a dead friend initially does for some characters in DRV3. Similarly, Yasuhiro's surprising accuracy is also a comical ironic detail which I don't think was actually intended to imply any sort of real magic, or the supernatural being real in the world of Danganronpa - it's just another element of silly hyperbole that colours the franchise as a whole. However, I do agree with your last point

[@elinorzollweg]

During the chapter 4 class trial, Monokuma states that if there is a tie vote for the blackened, that both people would be executed as long as one of them was the blackened. Given the context, I 100% thought that there would be a tie resulting in both Gonta’s and Kokichi’s executions. But this was just another random throwaway line that went nowhere…

[@Mazzis11]

They do this a lot actually, bringing up a genuinely really interesting question about the logistics of the killing game, then not doing anything with it

[@SigmaSyndicate]

I really hate how Danganronpa as a whole, but V3 especially, will plant the idea of something interesting happening, only to not follow through at all and instead do something completely predictable. Imagine if the Necronomicon succeeded. We know that V3 is a TV show, so how could they have possibly made good on that premise? Maybe their "resurrection" would simply be implanting the memories and personality of the dead person into the person performing the ritual. Imagine if Angie was walking around Chapter 3 with Rantaro's personality and memories. That would be interesting. Imagine if Korekiyo really only killed Tenko in Chapter 3. The rest of the cast would have to cooperate with him for the rest of the game (or at least until he dies). There's so much natural conflict and tension you could build from that. But, no, the game brings that up as a possibility and then does nothing with it. Imagine the implications of a world-wide apocalypse like the one depicted in Chapter 5. Bleak? Yeah. There's places you can go with that, though. Hell, Nier shows that even the end of the world can have interesting characters and things happening in it. The setting in Chapter 6 is alluded to, but never elaborated upon. Our only source is an unreliable one, and the story points this out. What kind of society is simultaneously peaceful but also so bloodthirsty they have to watch snuff to get through the day? Interesting questions and possibilities pop-up, but the story just shrugs its shoulders and absolves itself of any responsibility.

[@marcelineabadeer8380]

Hey Nezumi I just wanted to say now that it’s so close to premiere I really wanted to give my thanks to you. I had gotten into Danganronpa just this year and they’ve been some of my favorite and best experiences in recent memory everything from it’s engaging and fun gameplay to it’s unforgettable and lovable cast to the poignant and underlying heart that intertwines with each chapter it really enraptured and captivated me in ways few franchises have. And while it’s definitely by means perfect and has it’s share of missteps and fumbles along the way it will always have a special place in my heart. And this series has helped elevate that even more I really like that you have a very comprehensive and fair outlook you give praise and explain what the series does exceptionally well and being very elaborate and concise and really highlighting the significance of what went into each story and character element. And at the same time you’re very decisive when you give your critiques and explaining how you felt some aspects could have been handled better. And I especially appreciate you do it in a polite, reasonable and constructive manner that illustrates your point of view really well it’s never just harping on something just for the sake of it, even if I don’t always necessarily feel the exact same way on something as you do I do really understand where you’re coming from and I like that you strike the good balance of giving admiration and highlighting the series strengths while also acknowledging the importance of criticism and being really mature and thoughtful about it which I of course really respect and appreciate immensely. Now that we’re at V3 a very polarizing entry I’m really excited to see what you have to say I can’t thank you enough for this wonderful series and how much hard work and commitment you poured into everything and I of course greatly look forward to what you do next whenever it happens.

[@alleyoliver3315]

So well said, encompasses my thoughts exactly! Nice to see another recent adopter of the games, seems to be pretty rare as far as I’ve seen.

[@jat4554]

No way this is how i find out that Sayaka passed away... That hit me like a truck out of absolutely nowhere...Damn.

[@NezumiVA]

Yeah, it's really sad. I didn't want to linger on the subject too much in the video, to be respectful to her and her family, but she was an incredible talent.

[@thinkublu]

I know you can't really say anything about it given that it's not what you played, but the English dub for this game was so insanely good, for every single character I think importantly as well, it makes kokichi's 'silly' serious lines work SO well, his VA is PERFECT

[@imaginarylivingbody7154]

3:53:25 To be completely fair, specifying that they only commit nonviolent crimes and harmless pranks kind of implies that murder is a taboo topic. The intention is still there and fairly obvious in my opinion. Of course they wouldn’t commit murder, they only commit harmless, nonviolent crimes! I don’t think that makes Shuichi’s later logic hard to understand for the English speaking players.

[@Harukaluin19]

It's still rather extremely poor translation of it.

[@pokemfan951]

For chapter 5, I find it kind of appropriate that the number of people who die ticks up in each entry. In THH, nobody died, Ikusaba already deceased and Naegi saved last-minute. In SDR2:FDA, Komaeda died, and...yes I know Nanami was executed, but my brain honestly failed to register her as I had this thought. And now, in NDRV3:NSoK, it's a full legitimate case.

[@georgearbuckle7029]

I always thought it was cool that the overall number of survivors dwindles every game, starting with 6, then 5, then 3. An average of 2 student deaths per chapter except for the traditional double murder, meaning you should have an average of 11 student deaths per game. THH has a suicide, mukara dying twice, and alter ego being executed instead of Makoto. THH also has junko killed but she wasn't a student. All three games have a double murder so that evens out everywhere. Danganronpa 2 has the most straight forward student deaths, as there was a suicide, but nagito made chiaki murder him, forcing her execution, ending in 11 deaths, the supposed average. Dv3 has 2 deaths per chapter except for the double murder and technically a double execution, kaede being executed for no reason and tsumugi is executed in chapter 6... better late than never. Keebos personality seems to be canonically dead as well therefore 3 survivors

[@Youhadabadday2021]

I think the reason the translators chose to make Kokichi more goofy sounding is because to a Normie English audience that has played the other games, keeping his mannerisms from the original translation would make him feel even more like Nagito 2: Electric Boogaloo than he already is. So, to give him a more distinct characterization, that had him take on a more goofier tone.

[@Yodah97]

Well, the Japanese audience had also played the games, and the original creators still felt ok letting Kokitchi sound serious there. This didn't strike me as a problem; Kokitchi's art sold those moments as serious to me, and I didn't even pay attention to the word choice. Still, to the extent that the job of an adaptation is to translate the original as faithfully as possible, having Kokitchi sound goofy while the original made him serious is a blunder. They either missed the nuance of the original (unlikely) or decided to take creative liberties where they shouldn't.

[@-salmather]

In the spirit of proper adaptations, I sort of agree. Personally, though, I like Ouma much better in English. He's just more fun. (I don't know enough Japanese to know if I'm missing out on some nuances that make him more fun in that dub, though.)

[@mightbeorganz]

imo thats on us if we dont get that because their motivations and beliefs are so different, after watching "in defense of kokichi ouma" i am shocked by how people think theyre super similar characters just because they have the same role. and also i think in killing game circumstances kokichi would hate nagitos guts

[@Zodia195]

I'll be honest, I kind of guessed that the 'Ultimates' were regular people from the start because of how the prologue started because something just did not feel right. Also with the first trial, I kept thing, "Something isn't right, where is the monopad Rantaro had?!" The fact that we never find out what happened to it. Just that whole trial, even with the 'reveal' that Kaede was the culprit, something just felt off so it wasn't a huge surprise for me that Tsumugi was the true culprit. But I do have to give Kodaka props for subverting expectations because you'd think the Mystery Talent and Protag would have 'plot armor' but they don't.

[@eggoatt]

very much appreciate that you took a moment to appreciate the UI and visuals because it goes pretty unsung. it also sticks out a lot to me personally because stumbling across videos about V3's UI and kinetic typography are actually what made me pick up danganronpa as a series in the first place on a complete whim. i basically took one look at it and said "that's hot, guess i'm getting into this now"

[@Cyan-Hoodie]

V3 UI feels like A Jackbox Part Pack game UI had a baby with Persona UI, and that's a compliment

[@NintendoCapriSun]

These videos have made many a dinner preparation go by much more smoothly! Totally stoked that this one is out now and looking forward to many repeat viewings. As for the game, there isn't much of anything I could possibly say that hasn't been brought to light here already. You definitely brought to light some issues I never realized before, like how people just kinda join the student council behind the scenes and we never get to see more of that whole process. I also always kinda felt like even though the characters in this game were super interesting insofar as they connect to the audience, it takes a long time for them to feel like they really connect to each other. Even as late as chapter 5, you still got Himiko annoyingly asking for piggyback rides and feeling uneasy around Maki about using her "nickname" and all that. There was other stuff, but it doesn't really come to mind at the moment. Also, if you're ever looking for another game that really sticks it to the Truth, Eliza is a good one. It's about an AI psychiatrist.

[@NezumiVA]

Oh wow, kind of surreal to see you here! Used to watch your stuff quite a bit when I was in school, lol.

[@sven2722]

I feel like himiko not wanting to call maki by her nickname is valid and I feel like it's more realistic for himiko to still doubt maki, because they're in a killing game. I guess himiko is more of a hit or miss character.

[@NintendoCapriSun]

@@NezumiVA Ah, one of the OG's! Proud to see you've come so far, kiddo

[@AeonKnigh432]

One of my favorite parts of V3 is that so many of the SHSL talents are exactly the type of things that someone of that age would think would be a cool SHSL talent. Like. I can fully imagine a teenager going "yeah, I'm the ULTIMATE SUPREME LEADER" or "I'm the ULTIMATE ASTRONAUT" or "I'm the ULTIMATE DETECTIVE!" It's not the case for all of them, but it definitely applied for plenty.

[@personita2.733]

ah yes i want to be the ultimate anthropologist

[@Cyan-Hoodie]

​@@personita2.733I imagine if a kid doesn't say anything, they have to come up with something themselves, and the well is so dried up 53 entries in, 'Ultimate Anthropologist' makes a bit more sense in context of this theory

[@personita2.733]

@@Cyan-Hoodie I can see that, thank you!

[@Acegan]

I feel like Ryoma’s arc in this game was supposed to mirror shuichi in a way. My thoughts are that he was supposed to represent a worst case scenario Shuichi and what he would’ve become if he gave in to his depression

[@cullenhutchison6528]

The reason Korekiyo didn't fall through the floor is that the combined weight of Tenko and the cage was enough to prevent the floorboard from levering too far downward. Meanwhile, there was no counterweight in Kokichi's case, hence why he fell completely through.

[@birdy9549]

i appreciate these videos because honestly i don’t have the executive function to apply myself to do the dishes let alone sit down to go through an hours long game over multiple days, and these are succinct enough but still long enough to provide detail that it sits just right in the conditions my brain needs to pay attention. i looked into the game and had a lot of it spoiled for me, but this provided me with a deeper understanding, a deeper appreciation, and a deeper distaste for each aspect of the story. thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on the story in a much more consumable way!!

[@kamikaze4311]

Man, what an ending for a retrospective. I have been into the franchise for what feels like years (12? 10? I don't remember) and for me it was this "quirky battle death game royale with stereotypes that i come to love" that i happen to find on KZbin. Now that i had the chance to revisit the games and end it with V3 with Decadence, it finally hit on me that this was a franchise more close to my heart than i thought and this retrospective made me value it more even with flaws poking it's nose way too many times for me to count (it REALLY seems that 3 is just a cursed number in this franchise, even by it's end). V3 isn't even close to be my favorite game or thing from the franchise, that's DR2, but it's finale resonated with me more than i could have expected. I can understand it's mixed reception, i felt a bit of many feelings at once when the twist was unraveled, even when foreshadowing was present for it, but in my eyes... I think that is what makes it more powerful and more poignant on the whole "even if it can be fiction, it can be a way of truth", or well, "if a piece of media makes you feel something whether you hate it or love it, then it worked". It has stayed with me as a proof that fiction can be powerful and we can appreciate it whatever the way it is you want to. Whether it is hated or loved, for me it was a fantastic finale. It was hella nice following this retrospective and whatever it is you do in the future, with pleasure i shall be there 👍

[@vibrantebony]

Man I really appreciate how there’s people out there who really do feel the impact of the message behind V3 and understand the buildup towards, and of itself, the climactic final trial. On that note, the second game is my favourite too, I’m sure many people would agree lmaoo

[@clydu91]

I actually think the Robophobia jokes are fucking hilarious because of how creative Kokichi gets with the insults.

[@dr.loboto1171]

I think an important thing to note about Hoshi's character arc is that it's left deliberately ambiguous whether he actually wanted Tojo to kill him or not. If you don't do his free time events, then it does seem like a pretty clear cut case of him just wishing to die. However, with the added context provided by the free time events, you can just as easily conclude that he really was just turning around to pick up the tennis balls with no further meaning to the action intended and that Tojo only misinterpreted this as him giving up his life to her because she was blinded by her own emotions.

[@goldblitzx9993]

In my personal opinion, the english dub voice actors are utilized the best in V3. Every character is voiced by a returning voice actor. JYB voices both Rantaro and Hajime Hinata, Kyoko and Kaede are both voiced by Erika Harlachar, Grant George voices both Shuichi and Leon, etc. It makes the reveal at the end more compelling if you noticed that fact.

[@Deja_gru]

The term “Beautiful mess” is perhaps the best description possible. Beautiful art, Messy ass plot.

[@jasmineelhilali9152]

The opposite if anything, the cg is horrendous but the plot is fun to follow

[@Maplestarknight]

Kokichi didn't write the original messages, he just found "horse a" and "twins b" and used them to fuck with the rest of the gang, at least that's how I remember it happening. Also; Kaito being legit homophobic in the original is an Extremely depressing thing to find out, considering Shuichi like. Has Feelings for him. Like I don't think I'm reaching here because I'm a lesbian, Shuichi (at least in the english translation) Has this internal monologue in one of Kaito's free time events: "...Only someone like Kaito could help me. Only someone like him could tell me what I need to hear. ...Ah, n-never mind. I shouldn’t be talking about another boy like that..." Shuichi and Maki are Bisexual Besties who both loved some fucking doofus guy with his head in space all the time.

[@harmonious_choir]

Do you mean Shuichi and Maki in that last sentence?

[@Maplestarknight]

@@harmonious_choir I did indeed. Goofed up the whole point of my comment.

[@paul_particularlyunhappynut]

wait what makes maki bi? i can kinda see shuichi but i thought maki was pure kaitosexual

[@bunyumie]

@@paul_particularlyunhappynut marcie goes over it in the video but makis free time events basically tell us she had a childhood best friend she had feelings for

[@paul_particularlyunhappynut]

@@bunyumie it was Peko right? but oh wait shit she's fictional

[@fluffystuff500]

Kirumi's execution has to be one of my favorites in the whole series. The false hope, her determination, and the raw emotion in the VA's voice when she screams "I will not die" makes the whole thing feel so much more painful and tragic. I know there wasn't much time to get attached to her but I really did like her character and her death just felt extremely well executed (no pun intended) Could've done without the weird camera angles though.

[@akikihou]

Finally someone does Korekiyo some justice, sure he’s a serial killer but they play off his grooming like a haha relatable joke😐

[@TheAsterik]

Maybe he wouldn't be a serial killer if his sister didn't absolutely fuck him up in the worst way possible 🤔 (i'm joking, i love kiyo and am also glad someone talked about how awfully he was treated by the narrative)

[@onettaviator5396]

@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 That's how a lot of the fandom interpreted it as, especially in the west. Korekiyo is pretty much dumbed down to either Seesaw Man or Sweet Home, Alabama. When really he was the series' (probably) only male CSA victim & thus not taken seriously. I get that all the kids were shocked as hell at the reveal and all, but it kinda bugs me that no one in-game really said anything like "Kiyo, what the fuck, that's NOT normal for your sister to do that stuff with you." Or just... something. Something that actually acknowledges that "Hey, this isn't just disgusting or some stupid joke, this is serious and honestly kind of tragic." Because they all treated him like he was disgusting for being 'in love' with his sister when no, *the sister is disgusting for grooming him.* (Disgust towards Kiyo's... "other" actions is more than warranted, though. YIKES.)

[@onettaviator5396]

@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 I haven't been in the community since 2020, so it's possible the fandom has calmed down or matured since then?

[@Yodah97]

​@@onettaviator5396 It's pretty hard to care about his abuse when he used it as an excuse to become a cartoon serial killer. It's not like he hurts girls because he has pent-up rage and trauma due to his sister. As far as he is aware, nothing that happened between him and his sister was wrong. And he started killing because he was heartbroken, plain and simple. The more you listen to what Kyo is saying, the less complex and interesting he becomes. And the more you think about his potential abuse, the more you realize they chose the worst possible character for a potential CSA backstory. Victims of abuse do sometimes develop toxic and destructive coping mechanisms. But they usually have at most conflicting feelings about their abusers, not unconditional love. And they don't just... become serial killers. Again, it's not like he hates girls because of his sister. Or has weird notions about sexuality due to being abused at a young age. He just randomly decided that she is lonely in heaven, so it's time to slice and dice. At most you can say the abuse "drove him crazy", which is not a great way to portray abuse victims, and it doesn't give him a lot of depth of character.

[@onettaviator5396]

@spdewertton Nah though, it's actually *because* he doesn't realize what happened between him & his sister was wrong that haunts me. No one ever tells him, not even before the execution, when it's their last chance. He only learns in death that his sister was never truly there for him. And yeah, he didn't give a fuck when he killed those girls. Which is fucking disgusting on his end. But think about it, dude. Kiyo clearly values humanity a lot. His sister TAUGHT him to value humanity and people a lot. But the experiences they've had have taught him that as important as humanity is, his SISTER comes first. Fuck humanity. Fuck these girls' lives-- his sister is lonely in whatever afterlife she's in. And we obviously can't have that, right? THAT'S how fucking far the grooming went. And that is insanely sad to me. Poor kid's completely lost it, completely out of touch with reality, and he doesn't even know it. Because he trusted her so much that she essentially owns his life. That's not nothing. That's horrifying.

[@idvemmawoods]

I've been looking forward to this video for a while, really. I loved and still love V3 for a lot of reasons. It motivated me to keep writing, to keep drawing, that maybe someone will someday see value in my work at a time where the school system had killed all my motivation to even try to be creative. Why bother when I could pass the class by making a generic essay that doesn't reflect my views? Why bother forming an argument and taking apart a topic if the teacher doesn't care? V3 reminded me that there's still value in trying, if only to make myself or the people around me proud. It reminded me that creativity and novelty is a good thing, and that I shouldn't have to make another soulless piece of writing that I don't even like. I always will let it have a special place in my heart for helping me remember that just turning out another soulless product isn't worth the grade, even if it's easy. Even if I'm not the creator of a beloved series or big franchise, I shouldn't let myself stop creating things I love, just because it's easier to give up and turn out whatever is satisfactory enough to get the job done. I loved Ouma because he was, to me, delightfully entertaining in a way that made people confused on why I liked him as much as I did. He's a reminder to me of why I should cherish my loved ones and become a more trusting person. I loved Akamatsu because she was inspiring in a way that made me willing to push through the game. Her words gave me that little bit of motivation to wake up the next day, even if just to see how the game ends. I loved all the characters, though ironically, I could never seem to love Momota. I despised him from the very beginning, which continues to confuse my friends and strangers. This video didn't really convince me to like him either. I loved Monomi too. I never understood why, I just do. Danganronpa's the series that made me want to start analyzing things, to look into characters and pick apart their motivations and learn what makes them tick. It's the series that taught me how to critically consume the media I interact with. I love it and I hate it and I wouldn't have it any other way. I've ranted on why I love the games, my love for the characters, but I've spent an equal amount of time criticizing it for all it's flaws and failures. I haven't been able to say that for anything else. It's a series that will always have a special place in my heart. I don't think I'll really ever let it go for that. I look on it both with a fond smile and burning hatred, and I wouldn't change that for anything. I'm happy with it as it is, for all its highs and lows and disappointments and surprises.

[@uknlogic2924]

I believe it's around 4:33:30-that she is a reflection of the danganronpa superfan and that her last words are an echo of that. I also wanted to add that her portrait doesn't show the typical greyed out iris of the eyes that other characters that go through despair emit. They are almost lit up like they are reflecting a tv screen. As if she is zombified by the idea that the world simply cannot exist without the show. Very interesting

[@the39wow]

watching all of your danganronpa retrospectives made me realize i love danganronpa for completely different reasons than the norm. characters i find charming and likeable, you find either ok, dont like them, or in cases like chihiro and angie, offensive to you, and the idea that such drastic differences in interpretations can even be possible makes danganronpa all the more interesting. you did a great job making this series retrospective.

[@anonymousalien7417]

I'm the same way, honestly, some of my favorite characters are ones that have been deemed "offensive" by the majority of the fandom. Heck, I wasn't even offended by any of the "controversial" events in the games, even though some of them did reference or at least "target" people that are like me (dang I use quotation marks too much)

[@starchaic6446]

Yes yes yes YES, I’ve been so hyped for the V3 retrospective ever since you did SDR2, and I cannot WAIT to see you tear this wonderful chaotic disaster of a game to bits 💜 V3 has been a big comfort for me lately while I’ve been dealing with some medical complications and so have your vids, so here’s to me watching and rewatching this bad boy until I’m rested and recovered ✌️🎉

[@SilverRevolt7699]

4:42:35 I think Kodaka was 100% honest about him not trying to tell off his audience. But at the same time, whenever you bring the "audience" into a story, most examples I can remember usually go the rout of "lol you're consuming this piece of media? what a loser, touch grass", which even when the media itself is not intentionally trying to do, it takes just one person taking that as a bad faith argument for it to eventually become just that, regardless of the author's intent. For example, while I think Undertale's ultimate message is really good, I can see why the existance onf the genocide run can make somebody feel like the game is telling you "lol you like to grind in RPGs? what a loser, go touch grass", and then there's some of the stuff made in the visual novel genre in general like DDLC or You and Me and Her where, again, regardless of author's intent, they can be interpreted as "lol you like Visual Novels? What a loser, go touch grass" and I've seen some people do just that. And in the particular case of Danganronpa V3 I think that despite good intentions, it hit the problem that because it's so niche, enough people took the audience argument in bad faith and basically comes of as making fun of it's audience, even unintentionally which might have also poisoned the well for the franchise to come back at least for the next decade or when new fans come and are far removed from initial release that they might reevalue the whole twist in general. Anyways, great video, I loved it!

[@yunabroadway3033]

I like to say that Chapter 2's "plot twist" with Kirumi works better in the French translation of the game. She is called the "Ultimate Gouvernante," a term for a maid with a "higher stature." A gouvernante, derived from the verb "gouverner" (to govern), a gouvernante is responsible for the house and its inhabitants' well-being. However, the twist still feels a bit ridiculous, though it's somewhat foreshadowed, making it less outrageous. The game could have provided a better explanation, perhaps showcasing Kirumi's willingness to lead and ensure everyone's well-being, like seeking input on how to improve everyday life or expressing concerns about the group's welfare during discussions about leaving the game.

[@TheBleggh]

"Governess" in English has similar connotations (and I wouldn't be surprised if it came from the exact same French word), but it's pretty archaic and the meaning would be obscure.

[@aturchomicz821]

1:13:12 "juicy ​🫵🏾you are going to casino" I like how accurately this Retrospective portrayed the Gambling of Dangan 3, very relatable👍🏻👍🏻

[@decadryl]

get casino'd

[@angelnati8297]

Rev

[@jessicanewton8051]

I got into Danganronpa in 2020, not from the games or the animes, but from the stage play adaptation of THH that was randomly recommended to me on KZbin. I was in college mostly holed up in my room because of, well, everything going on in the world at the time, so I was feeling very lonely. I stayed up until about 3am watching it and proceeded to have a (platonically) intimate dream about Mondo where he was a very comforting presence. I read his entire wiki page and FTEs and things after that and just kinda absorbed the rest of the franchise by osmosis. Not the typical story, I know, but it's the truth.

[@NezumiVA]

That's actually a REALLY interesting way to get into the franchise, honestly. Never heard of someone getting in through the stageplays first.

[@alexanderosborne8778]

I'm not sure if the art is rushed but rather if the artist was inexperienced with imitating Rui Komatsuzaki's style, believe it or not the CGs in the game are done by Shima Drill! He's done work for Fate/Grand Order (which Komatsuzaki also did work for as well, designing Koma- I mean Edmond Dantès and Cleopatra) and outside of that has plenty of fan art where their art style is wildly different.

[@NezumiVA]

Didn't actually know this! That's an interesting tidbit to hear, though. Could've been a little of column A _and_ B though, all things considered - regarding the work timeline for the game, lol.

[@TheGoldenAlchemist86]

59:09 Idk if it’s true but I heard the monokubs death gags were added because the executions were too horrific. Which I think was a really dumb decision especially given that the monokubs are purposely INSUFFERABLE

[@thinkublu]

I like that the cubs were tossed into the executions imo, it really works for me - the tonal dissonance of it feels really fitting to danganronpa, it's like - you're in shock with the execution, and then it's SO absurd all of a sudden and it feels horrifying because of that Also, for me, Ryoma is made way more tragic by the fact that he DIDN'T get to have that narrative arc, especially as a contrast to shuichi Another thing, the CGs do have problems, but tbh some of them are suuper effective, even with the little issues, especially the ones of kokichi, kaito, and the nice moments with himiko and gonta

[@buttercupghost]

I actually love when games scold me for playing them. So, you know, the feeling of the game scolding me for liking Danganronpa was actually a selling point for me. Though I totally understand why people didn't. Personally, games that hate you for playing are SUUUPER interesting to me, imo. I also find V3 to be a poignant criticism of capitalism in regard to creative art being turned into simply a product that only phones it in, which you start to explain very well in the middle of me writing this comment so, you know, what are you guys doing reading my comment instead of watching this amazing video? I find it a pretty fitting for an end to Danganronpa (and really hope that they don't make more, because I actually really like this ending). I actually really respect that Kodaka wanted to end it this way.

[@ForrestFox626]

For me it varies from game to game, V3 is one that lands on the good for me. Though I can see the issue people have with it.

[@Christian-gr3gu]

Ok masochist

[@Christian-gr3gu]

@Natalie ew

[@alexey635able]

Not gonna lie: I think this game is my favorite one. It’s obviously not objectively the best but the sheer amount of risks it took earned my respect. The first trial alone justified my purchase of the game and I consider it to be the best execution of fake-out protagonist trope in all medium. On a side note Shuichi is literally me during my 16 years and my second fav protag after Komaru

[@Mockingdragon]

As far as the retrial...it actually pissed me off all over again about losing Kaede. The redeeming factor of chapter 1 was having Kaede actually go through with a murder and dealing with that. For her to be innocent all along....for me, ruins that twist. Now I don't get a cool female protag, OR one who had the distinction of going through with the worst.

[@ramenbomberdeluxe4958]

This so much ^^^^^

[@pit_solitayrh3718]

But... in her mind, she irrefutably killed Rantaro, her and all the people who died before the final trial including Kokichi died thinking she killed him. It doesnt change her motives and development.

[@Mockingdragon]

@@pit_solitayrh3718 That is true from an in-universe level, but on a meta level it doesn't help. The writers chose to absolve her, rather than keep that element of the story through the end.

[@pit_solitayrh3718]

I don't really let it bother me. The reveal didn't make me go "she didnt do nothing wrong" but it felt like a direct insult to Shuichi which leads the audience's switch to hating Tsugumi more smoothly. While not innocent, that punishment was even more unfair than usual.

[@nahhh5284]

@@Mockingdragon It's completely fine that she didn't actually kill Rantaro bc the impact of her death and the way it influenced the entire game is massive. She died believing and accepting that she committed murder, and Shuichi carried on through the game motivated by her death to "pursue the truth no matter what", despite the fact that he ironically got that motivation because of a lie. Kaede isn't absolved. She set up that plan knowing she was attempting a murder and she died believing that she went through with murder and also got the wrong person. The twist that her plan failed even harder than she realized doesn't change any of that

[@WildNeo]

This was absolutely lovely to watch and participate in! I can't stress enough how much this video taps into the big picture of this series as a whole to bring it all to a comfortable, bittersweet close. Your work has paid off tremendously! Good luck on your new ventures with your content, I'll be sure to keep watch!

[@trainerjezza9390]

4:47:25-4:47:34 Could not have phrased it any better myself! Perfect example: FNAF. 1-3 told a Perfect narrative. So many mysteries yet it still did have a very basic story there that although convoluted went from point a to b. Then 4 came out, made things confusing with 1983 vs 1987 and so much other crap. Then we got Sister Location and it was all a complete nosedive from there. 6 years ago when it came out, I was completely obsessed with the franchise, solving the lore was my everything. Then there was this game that was a literal roadblock into everything I was trying to solve. It was so frustrating and yet I was still enamoured with the story. Then Scott ended up making a 6th game to literally wrap up the story. That's why FFPS existed. It wasn't perfect, but it did suffice, at least for me. Then we get a VR game; low and behold, William is back AGAIN!!11 Then Security Breach... which not even including the story was just a swarm of problems in one game. We're at the point where Scott has retired and is gonna hand the series off to someone else eventually and if SB's success and upcoming DLC is anything to be said, is just going to result in more games. Just for the sake of it. For a game that has such a complex story that was such a mass appeal for the fans, now that story is a massive broken mishmash of crap all strewn together with no cohesion, with more being added in again and again just to keep the story going and to keep people hooked. It's lore just for the sake of their being lore. There's not gonna be an end in sight anytime soon, because it generates money. Just like what you said. FNAF has fallen victim to it. EDIT: Sorry my grammar and wording may be a little off here and there, I wrote this kinda quick because I had a thought process and just wanted to get it out there. FNAF ramble aside, your video was absolutely amazing, Marcie! Keep going, girl, your work is absolutely incredible! 💜

[@etam8099]

Fnaf 3 was hated as fuck so Scott didn't wanted to end the series on what is considered the worst entry out of the main 6, i honestly don't mind 4 onwards, cause the story of the first trilogy would have been incredibly dull with little to no depth, so i can appreciate we diving into the villain's story, however everything after 6 is fanfiction to me

[@lunathegodkiller]

To be honest, after having been an active fnaf fan from sometime between 4 and Sister Location to a bit after UCN came out, I feel like after some point the story/lore of the fnaf games weren't exactly trying to tell a story anymore, if that makes sense? Looking back on it now, with so much time away from the series and its fanbase, and especially after briefly diving back into that fanbase with Security Breach, it feels as if after a while the "story" just became about contradicting theories to generate more fan content and shock value while capitalizing on what's already iconic instead of, y'know, actually telling a story.

[@defordumbas9302]

@@etam8099 i think 7 Serves as a good epilogue though.

[@cassereed7951]

this retrospective has genuinely been one of my favourite parts of the last year. Thank you and what an incredible, fantastic job you've done.

[@phantomfalcon8104]

Seeing this retrospective on what’s one of the most important franchises in my life has been a really, REALLY fun time. Your analysis and outlook on each game and the anime have been a joy to watch, and I’m excited to see the final stage.

[@desertdove]

happy 1 year anniversary for this video coming out! 🎉 I play it in the background all the time

[@CyFiWasTaken]

Cult girl's hovering cross legged pose could potentially be a reference to a famous picture of Shoko Asahara midair, with the claim that he could levitate (when is reality, it was just one of the cultists taking a well timed picture of him sort of jumping with his thighs, while keeping his legs crossed)

[@rosemary3029]

You mean angie

[@CyFiWasTaken]

@@rosemary3029 yeah, sorry, I’m bad with names to the point that I watched all of Cobra Kai without remembering the names of the main cast lol

[@shadow_shine3578]

One of my issues with the game was it never translated the button controls from controller to pc. Making the rhythm game, one of the coolest and what should be a very fun game into an extremely frustrating affair where I wasn’t trying to hit the buttons on beat, I was just trying to hit the button period.

[@flamieignition5362]

I'd like to add another little perspective regarding the message of V3 that I didn't think of until my boyfriend had finished the game and gave his take. His take was that the game was a sort of commentary on reality TV and how harmful it can be to both the viewers and the participants. In the mental, emotional, and maybe social sense, not necessarily physically. I thought that was a pretty interesting take and since I didn't see it discussed here I thought I'd bring it up.

[@CorvusCantum]

Just as I watch this, I think the thing about the combination is not that Ouma KNEW the combination and left it behind, but rather, he found the 2 clues and could tell their importance and just kept one hidden and messed with the one that was obviously out there to use it for his own plans

[@CorvusCantum]

And gosh, yes!! That line about why it hurts to be told that Danganronpa is fiction when that's something we've always known, that's exactly how I see it and have explained to my friends my interpretation the ending. Why are people so upset about being told that a series is fictional when... it's a series, it's always been fictional, and how the pain and hurt in regards to being told the characters we love so much from the previous games are fake despite the fact we always have known so kinda... Proves the point the game is trying to make

[@CorvusCantum]

Rewatching it again and I think Shinguji didn't fall through to the underside of the floor because of Chabashira's body hitting the top of the cage where the dog statue was, her body weight along with the statue would prevent Shinguji from falling even lower??? The amount of space she goes up isn't as much, so it would definitely be possible for Shinguji to hop off the plank without much trouble... But yeah, I do agree with most other points you raise in regards to... How the murder requires a bit too much suspension of disbelief, it does make for a really cool murder, imho, tho (Also, they do state that Shinguji had all night to try as many times as he needed to do the Katana trick if that helps in any way to rationalize how needlessly complicated it was for it to actually work)

[@twonio]

I'm pretty sure Kirumi lied (or maybe just convinced herself) that Ryoma let her kill him. Turning your back on someone is not an absolute guarantee that you're letting them kill you, and as others in this comment section have pointed out, the scratches on the sink clearly indicate that he did fight back - he was probably fighting for his life. He might have had a moment of doubt after seeing that he apparently had nothing to live for and felt low as a result, but I don't think he ever truly gave Kirumi permission

[@sven2722]

Also note how ryoma by that time had already seen his motive video and met up with maki at that time. Before shuichi got captured for the meet and greet ryoma had some small talk with shuichi and he states how he now has a will to life. (Probably because he wants someone to life for) Kirumi her argument completely falls apart.

[@matthewberry2144]

I don't really see it that way. I think Ryoma did turn his back as a gesture for her to kill him. Maybe it was in the moment and didn't fully want to, but just because he struggled doesn't mean he didn't at least go through with it a little bit. Struggling may have just been a natural bodily reaction, since your body has the gut reaction to, in this case, get out of the water (which is why it's really hard to drown yourself without weighing yourself down or being stuck in some way). I'm not defending Kirumi's decision, and she should have also thought twice, but I think that Ryoma did give her the gesture to do it, if only for a moment.

[@shiloilo]

i just kinda saw how he struggled a natural reaction. its human nature to not wanna die so he obviously struggled

[@matthewberry2144]

@@sven2722 I really don't see why Kirumi would have any reason to lie after that point, and she's not the type of person to lie all the time either (like Kokichi). And Ryoma said that he wanted to find a will to live, not that he necessarily found it. Shuichi did really encourage him and he had second thoughts, but I think that motive video destroyed him.

[@twonio]

@@matthewberry2144 But she did lie - she lied a lot once Shuichi caught her. She tricked most of the class into volunteering to take her place by lying to their faces that she had their best interests in mind when she didn't. It wasn't a casual lie, and I imagine it was hard for her, but she was desperate to get people on her side in the hope that it would help her survive and complete her duty. It wouldn't surprise me at all if she lied about what happened with Ryoma to make herself come across as more sympathetic, or maybe even just so she wouldn't feel as bad about what she did. Telling herself he wanted to die might make her feel less guilty, even though in truth there is no excuse. And, being in her position, it would be quite natural for somebody to lie uncharacteristically. She was completely unhinged by that point. Also, the last conversation Shuichi has with Ryoma before he is killed implies that Ryoma had just decided that he was going to try and live despite his struggles, so him then giving up completely makes that moment feel a little hollow. I understand that he was distressed after seeing the motive video, but wouldn't it make sense for him to actually verbally volunteer, if that's how he felt? You might be right, we'll never know, but I disagree that there's no way Kirumi would lie about this, no matter how honest she was normally. She wasn't in her right mind, and was a very calculating person

[@jerri1918]

a small detail i dont think you talked about in the localization is kaito's en voice actor! they got kyle hebert, the guy who did the en dub of Kamina from gurren lagann! kaito and kamina have a lot of character parallels, including their broader character strokes, the fact that they rode a mecha, the fact that they died on their own terms instead of the villain's, and much more specifically, how they helped the main character gain self confidence, before revealing that the main character helped themselves grow as a person too

[@pearline4684]

I think the question is: was Momota spewing homophobic and transphobic rhetoric made to be a flaw in the japanese version? Or was it played for jokes? Because if it’s the latter then just leaving it out without needing to replace it as a flaw makes sense, but if it’s the former, then that’s a whole problem in its entirety