Why Darktide Feels Like it Has No Soul

[@genericjones8459]

You're exactly right. The keep was a place to test new weapons and gear, dabble in other characters/careers, AND somewhere you could hang out while waiting for players to join your session. All of that free from any loading screens or timers. I don't want to wait in the empty starting section of a level for the bots to eventually be replaced. I want to be able to play with the training dummies and otherwise enjoy this much richer location. Unlike the keep, the Morningstar doesn't feel like a space you were intended to spend much time in. It's a series of menus, each hidden behind a 10 second run down a hallway.

[@theactionwindow5008]

"Unlike the keep, the Morningstar doesn't feel like a space you were intended to spend much time in. It's a series of menus, each hidden behind a 10 second run down a hallway."

[@redhammer92]

Heck it even lost the bit a flavor of having a themed room for each player class you could find. That disappointed me way more than i expected.

[@castorlidelta6636]

The red moon inn from Vermintide: End Times have more soul within than anything in Darktide. It actually feels like it is something you wantto defend. Some may argue that having no soul is the whole point of Darktide, since we are a cog in a machine. Yet, this is a video game that you need players to immerse themselves into. You need something for them to latch themselves onto and a giant empty shopping mall isn't it.

[@theactionwindow5008]

Hard agree. It would be easy to give a sense of the bleakness/futility of the Darktide reject while also still creating immersion. My heart weeps.

[@improbablyinnocent3291]

I still miss it 😢

[@rhysjones81]

This is Heresy, the Emperor is the only motivation you need!

[@rhysjones81]

But yeh totally :)

[@kielbasamage]

I agree, and I feel like a lot of this revolves around the WHF versus 40K thing as well. The sense of scale and audience expectation is inflated to the point of being bloated and lethargic. The Ubersreik Five are fighting to save the equivalent of the Holy Roman Empire, as opposed to 40k. So what if the planet falls to Nurgle? The Imperium loses worlds by the hundreds every terran hour, and gains just as many just as quick. Oh, a specific kind of steel for Leman Russ tanks is only available here? So? There's so many archeotech, STC blueprints and xeno prostate massagers that are unique, destroyed, lost or irreplaceable that you can probably find another equivalent somewhere else. This expectation even drips down onto the characters. Why would your character form bonds? Why would your character look aesthetically pleasing? Why would your character have anything to their name? This is the Forty First Millenium! You're a dirty meat nugget, crusted in filth and so ugly even a Daemonette would pause and need some Amasec goggles first. Your name is worth less than a grease stain on an Administratum intern's loincloth, you're a moderately squishy servitor, meant to perish under a hail of lasfire with several million other faceless, grimy mooks to take fifty meters of ground that'll be lost an hour later, on a planet of no consequence that will be exterminatus'd a week later, for a third of an STC blueprint of a spork from the dark age of technology. And then people wonder why your character is so stiff and empty, why they aren't memorable beyond funny dialogue or name compilations on youtube and why people aren't satisfied being told they're worthless garbage barely worth the stub round between the eyes they will get unless they level up five more times and that's it for thirty hours. Cameraderie, homey looks, character progression and actual story are for Eisenhorn, Roboutte Guilliman, Creed and whatever other guy who gets to be on the frosted corpse-flake boxes. How I would've done it is grab a bit from Monster Hunter and the Chaos Wastes lobby from VT2; have your big main lobby, maybe limit the amount of players in it or not, but put more NPCs in it. Make it look like stuff's actually happening. Have munitorum crates being moved around, have Marrow inspecting the map personally, have guardsmen patrolling or chatting (Emperor forbid they have a conversation with each other though, that would NEVER happen, no books have that!) And then a separate world instance, like a section of the rejects barracks or bunks or whatever. Have it increase in size and furnishings as you level and gain better standing on the ship, be able to invite your party members in with you, be able to do stuff inside it. Play cards, gesture, drink Amasec or Tannin Tea or whatever. Have achievements give you trophies you can have displayed in your bunks like helmets off dead traitor guardsmen, battle standards, scavenged paintings and stuff (B-but Commisars will execute you for having personal effects, the lore says so! Even though you can dismantle rare plasma weaponry for Inquisitorial good boy bucks...) Have a servitor or two there to let you see the shops without having to leave, and have a screen allowing you to select missions. Anything besides just a big empty space designed to wow graphics people for fifteen minutes.

[@theactionwindow5008]

I enjoyed reading this, always nice to see someone else passionate about the universe :)

[@Heavynaut]

I remember first hearing they’d have a hub again. And then seeing the trailer of the squad playing a pointless card game and getting yelled at for it. My buddy and I sat theory crafting dumb little mini games you could do in the hub with friends before and inbetween missions. Taal’s Horn having the pointless parkour challenge spiraling up the tower took hours from my group, hours of chats not about the game, hours of chats about builds, missions, moments, and speculation. Hours leading up to the release of Warrior Priest specifically coming to our own conclusions about the puzzles and meanings of texts/lore/dialogue. DT you DONT want to be in the hub almost ever. You can’t even practice on targets for your friends to see your cool build. The psykanium taking you into a separate are, which also removes you from your party, is sad. Give me a tired rummaged living quarters with affects related to my chosen character background, class, and voice/personality. Give me that mess hall with a dumb mini game. Give me a shooting/melee range to test stuff while the squad does the same. I REALLY hope that the mourningstar wont be the only hub we have, but in future seasons we might land somewhere or end up in another base. Even having our own rooms in a quarantined Hab Block would be enough long as everything else was set up. Tbh I REALLY don’t care about seeing 30 other randoms I’ll never talk to being a constant of my hub. If I wanted to chill, talk tips and tricks and challenges I’d go to that area when I’m solo to specifically do that. But when I want my separate space just for my friends and I to vibe don’t take that way

[@shoulderpyro]

Yknow what I'm hoping for is a mix of the two, to some extend. Keep the one we have right now. But have it be the "tutorial" hub, as in you're there until you hit level 30. Because lets be honest, the story thats been told through cutscenes alone so far felt like an introduction to the world and the inquisition mainly meant to make people unfamiliar to 40k understand what the hell is going on. ...And given people are not exactly aware theres an actual story going on behind just the cutscenes going by reviews lets just leave it at that. But theres also mentions of "another hive city" "the one everyone pretends is lost". You sometimes hear it being asked by the squad members, then they're told to shush it as its best not to ask questions about that. ...What if those past level 30 are moved from the Mourningstar to another base (or another layer on the mourningstar, given their new clearance). Where the shooting range, minigames and all that stuff is? Sure it'll probably never happen but hey its a nice idea

[@Heavynaut]

@@shoulderpyro would honestly really love that. I had a feeling that the DT story has been slow partially due to waiting for WH:40k 10th edition to start releasing, as far as i can tell the DT story is partially linked to currently unfolding tabletop story as there are mentions speculating on Guilliman’s return and that’s what happened in the 10th Ed reveal trailer. Hopefully we get a second hub in the sister city that’s better and more personal but I’m thinking if we ever go there it’ll be in much worse shade than Tertium is. Those lines if I’m not mistaken hint towards it potentially being “more forsaken” than tertium currently is. But yes please give me a hub with mini games and time wasters to do while I chill with my team. A place I can actually slow down between missions and feel like I want to be there. It adds so much to the atmosphere to have a little space, like a terrarium, for us to exist and be little ants or our own “heros” in. More than anything I want a practice range where my team can be present. That way, like Verm2, we can test builds and coherencies and show off cool stuff we got with eachother.

[@KickinRadTopHat]

This really articulates how I’ve been feeling about Darktide. Rushed, heartless, and full of missed opportunities to make something truly great. Part of the reason I stopped playing is that it just feels so bad going back to the Mourningstar after a mission. It's really one of the worst ways they could have done the hub.

[@theactionwindow5008]

I feel you man, right there with you. The game just makes me feel sad atm, had to take a little break from it.

[@balongaboy]

The failure of dark tide got me into vermintide II. First thing I ended up doing was exploring the keep, I was amazed at everything there was just to do there. The morning star was 3 corridors of nothing. There’s no need to visit anything but the item shop and the mission selection deck. Just a slight right and a correcting left is literally the only movements you’ll make in the hub.

[@krackheadkrueger]

They should add a seperate hub for players who have done auric missions to seperate rejects from auric operators

[@hurrsia]

Tencent fucking killed Darktide. But Vermintide also had almost nothing when it launched, so don't compare what Vermintide 2 is now to what Darktide launched as. Darktide is inexcusable, but maybe something will come of it one day.

[@KickinRadTopHat]

I don't think Tencent's influence extends that far beyond how the cash shop was implemented tbh. If you look back on Fatsharks previous games, not just the 'Tide series, they have a long history of poor communication and inability to deliver on promised features in a reasonable timeframe. Maybe Tencent brought out the worst in FS, but the problems have always been there.

[@MrSteve0311]

Really good take on the lack of immersion, couldn't agree more. Don't get me started on the lack of a story/narrative in the game. All the missions run together senselessly without any identity or purpose. You don't even know what you're accomplishing or why.

[@theactionwindow5008]

Man I would really, really love some sort of purpose in the game.

[@Legitimate123]

I think more than a lack of a keep from VT2, the lack of personality in the characters we create is the main culprit. Making people be able to create their own characters completely ruins immersion, not only are the names often memey, but they often have the same voice actor for different characters in the same lobby. There's no tangible personality/character to get attached to like VT2. Every single VT2 main character has more personality than ALL the customized character possibilities combined. As there's no stable personality to get attached to - there's no relationship. I don't intend to get super philosophical, but humans were build for relationship - so that's why this game feels so empty, there's none.

[@Acesahn]

They also have very boring appearances. Just guys and gals with different outfits, all of them red if they use the earned cosmetics or shades of grey and greyish blue/green as if to act as camo and blend in with the junky environments and scabs.

[@Legitimate123]

@@Acesahn Totally agree with everything.

[@SlightlyOddGuy]

Yup. Killed me to learn they got rid of the small, close-knit group. Wtf. Who thought that would ever have been a good idea.

[@Melchizidek777]

I agree completely with this.

[@jeramyneeley3351]

I can play Vermintide offline. I can't with Darktide. I'll always love my time from the red moon inn.

[@John_MySpace]

Darktide feels like a content playground. I love the music, the guns are cool, it's fun to blast heretics with your friends. But I feel no confection to the world or missions I'm going on. Scan these 5 things, survive waves while resetting this scanner, etc. Where am I again? What was the reason we were scanning these things? I can't remember and it doesn't feel important to try to. That's fine at first, shooting stuff is fun. But Vermintide felt like an adventure. I understood where in the world I was, what we were doing and what was at stake. I was lost in my Fellowship of the Ring experience and it kept me coming back.

[@millerlight2592]

This really hits the nail on the head. Really hoping they can improve upon this but I’m definitely not holding my breath either. That time has probably gone already

[@92edoy]

Another thing to note is: Vermintide 2 lobby is your OWN. When you enter Taal's Horn Keep, that is your computer becoming its own server for players to connect to (peer-to-peer connection). Darktide is a centralized hub. The 30 players in a lobby, yourself included, are in a proprietary server owned by Fatshark (and, by extension, Tencent). This means nothing now, but on the long run, I strongly believe that's what gives true longevity to a game. In 20-30 years, you may still be able to play Vermintide 2. What about Darktide, if Fatshark decides it is not profitable anymore and pulls the plug?

[@leadpaintchips9461]

The soul of Darktide was replaced with greed. All the decisions that have stripped the game of its soul was made to 'encourage' us to spend money at the cash shop. It's why we have to run everywhere in the lobby (to see the other people forced into the same lobby as us) instead of having keyboard shortcuts. It's why all the menu locations are where they are at (so we have to run past and idle next to the cash shop to access the RNG shop). It's why there's nothing to do in the Mourningstar other then check the menus and go to your next mission (to cycle the lobbies to get the player to see the most variety of cosmetics). It's why the best writing is on the cosmetic shop blurbs instead of on the damn story. Don't get me wrong, the game has obviously a lot of passion poured into it. The details of the characters, weapons, and environments are some of the best 40K stuff I've seen. The delivery of the voice actors shows that their direction was 100% on point. In spite of all of that though, the basic core design of everything outside of the missions is that driven by greed instead of love.

[@theactionwindow5008]

Agreed.

[@snapp0]

Bingo

[@92edoy]

Unfortunately, Tencent took them over.

[@AMDA_]

Vermintide 2 hub is just lovely. Feels like a home

[@TheChaos791]

I think by just adding a bar with a quick mini-game card or something who take less than 2 minutes, the possibility to order a drink like the Red Moon Inn and a solution to socialize with others then Darktide will have a soul. Throne ! Even the Abyss bar in Deep Rock have more soul than Darktide ! We are rejects, not regulars imperials.

[@shoulderpyro]

..funny you contradicted yourself there. Its true, we're rejects. Thus, we dont get anything the regular guard would - we just get the hand-me-downs and scraps. Jokes aside, i do agree with you

[@JP-jq7ob]

I LOVE Taal Horns Keep I would just load into my keep, pick my charcater, wander out to the training yard and get my rhythm going, go up on the roof and enjoy the view! by then a friend would join, we would pick out an adventure and have epic battles against the enemies of Mankind. Thank you for the very thoughtful video, it was very emotional for me watching this.

[@theactionwindow5008]

I feel this man

[@setheus907]

I dunno I can't say I ever cared about the keep. I'd just load in and press M straight away to get into a game.

[@Duranous.]

This is how I felt, there is no context. There are no characters, no plot, and the hub is really boring and pointless. When I first imagined what darktide would be I obviously thought of vermintide 2. I thought of connected missions and instead of a keep, maybe a safe room where you prepared for the next mission. Instead we have generic missions with generic objects and I don't even get to know why we're are doing anything because "inquisition secrecy". For the hub, they pretty much just ripped off the deep rock galactic space station but without any of the charm.

[@leventhumps3861]

The hub world was alright in Vermintide, but come on… Left 4 dead had no hub and it’s still the best

[@roywennekes8548]

Beautifully made video man. This is why youtube can be such an inspiring place; people with interesting views articulating them well. Makes me reminisce about the games I played that did have a soul. Games like Morrowind, the first Mass Effect, Unreal, etc. I'm not saying present game development can't produce great games, but the business side of it takes precedence over the passion of the developers a bit too often I feel.

[@r1ot997]

the most recent game that felt like it had soul was elden ring, felt like a youthful spirited yet immensely experienced entity

[@roywennekes8548]

@@r1ot997 That's a good one, totally forgot the fact that game made me feel awesome!

[@beaniesigmar3908]

Loved this video, even more your articulation. Watching this video was akin to pausing on a stroll, to stop for a moment and catch the fading sunset. Thank you for your work, it made me appreciate vermintide's world even more.

[@theactionwindow5008]

Thanks for this lovely message mate! Really appreciate the kind words!

[@fruiteusfly5307]

There is an old meme about the Warhammer series, and that is that the soul of Warhammer or WH40K is centered around "Your Dudes", and the epic backstory is just a narrative backdrop to the adventures of "Your Dudes". Darktide doesn't have to be completely grimdark like the rest of the universe, it should focus on Tertium and the adventures of your chosen characters. I feel like so much more could have been done with the hub from what I've seen of it, like having personal rooms decorated with mementos of your chosen character's backstories, such as helmets and other trinkets, and it could be a physical location which other players can visit. I think the feeling of "Your Dudes" could even carry over to dialogue during gameplay, where your character can reference a personality they've met recently in a previous game, if the personality isn't present in the match they're in. Literally anything to add more character to your chosen "Dude" and make them feel more fleshed out!

[@Paternova]

REALLY good video right here. You absolutely nailed this, and I couldn't agree more. A canteen and a hanger bay would've been excellent hub choices. I love your mention of an in-game game of cards that players could gamble on while waiting for their strike team to join. I'd love something like Gwent, but with famous Militarum units/commissars etc, where we can gamble using Melk coins, or Aquilas...or a version of Regicide. Best to focus on actually finishing this half done game before thinking about that though ;)

[@MaclewTheMighty]

In the Grimdark future, there is only war. War has no time for frivolities

[@DocFleg]

Lots of truth in this video. I think the only good thing that has come out of the Darktide fiasco is watching them reap what they sowed. These companies seem to need the "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" method of learning from their mistakes. We, the players, happily oblige them their lessons.

[@theactionwindow5008]

Truth. They've lost so many thousands of players as a result of their hubris. I hope the rest of the video game world was watching Darktide's release because honestly it was shambolic.

[@DRod1517]

Great video. Rarely am I captivated these days by this sort of content, but your presentation was superb. Take a like and a subscribe. You also managed to put into words what I have been trying to pinpoint with DT. Players absolutely want, and even deserve great gameplay. But we are far more invested in what you call, the soul.

[@theactionwindow5008]

This was such a lovely comment to read man. Thank you for your kind words

[@ghola82]

This has been my #1 complaint since beta. I just un installed it last Friday when it hit me. I wasn't having fun and it was soulless grind fest. I wanted this game to be great. I really fking did. I'm tired of buying games and being constantly let down.

[@theactionwindow5008]

The only effective form of protest we have in this industry with by voting with our wallets whilst also impacting the wallets of the companies' that think it's okay to keep pumping out unfinished, half baked ideas.

[@92edoy]

​@@theactionwindow5008precisely. When I bought this game (and I pre-ordered it, shame on me), I did so on the good reputation Fatshark built with V2. But now that they put out this game in such a state (and their acquisition by Tencent has something to do with it, let's be honest), whatever they will put out next I will vet it very thoroughly before buying.

[@SpencerMepham]

This is something I agree with 100% I was so excited for the hub the possible places I could jump to while waiting on mates. I even made a mini game in V2 of hiding the training dummy in hard to reach places. But instead we got a online only game that has none of the fun of the keep such a shame.

[@theactionwindow5008]

Ty for your comment mate. I do have hope for the future in light of how this last month has gone. I think the massive mishandling of this game has definitely been noticed by the developers and I'd expect them to be all hands on deck from now on. Maybe in a year this game will look more like its supposed to.

[@graff6768]

All of this, because they wanted to implement character creation and a hub to show off people's MTX purchases... They really should have just created 4 unique characters, and let us run around their barracks or something, à-la Vermintide 2.

[@superpigeon15]

Yeah, Darktide is really fun, but half the time I just end up wanting to play Vermintide instead. I hope that, for lack of better terms, they're able to get their act together and bring the game up to the standard they themselves set while advertising it.

[@theactionwindow5008]

I've taken a short break from Darktide to play some other, similar games. Having stepped back from it, it feels more and more like it was released in a hurry with none of the actual desired framework around it. That's why we have no hub, no loot system, no crafting system, no soul and a bunch of buggy, half balanced shit. This game needed another year in the oven, minimum.

[@rasianket7220]

I'm really sad that the game is losing popularity. I've been playing it for weeks, and I'm still enjoying it, but as fatshark loses their passion for the game, so do I.

[@MMikedd]

Basically a result of doing the minimum mentality. It has infected every sector of our society and just results in worsening of society instead of betterment. It is sad really. Hire them passionate programmers and etc instead of the lazy non-passionate money grubbing programmers/developers etc.

[@canicheenrage]

Nonsense. That came from the top. After the late 80s video game crisis and its scam "games" crisis that nearly killed the media, the financial world left the developers to their work. We had one decade of nearly pure creator driven games. Now, investors crept back in, with demands of return on investment, frustration mechanics to incentivise people to pay more, free to play payments present in paid games, etc. Just capitalism at work. Money before anything else. And there's enough whales throwing money at the companies so it will keep on happening. The worst mechanics can be mostly legislated out of existence ( loot boxes), though vigilance is necessary ( diablo immortal crests workaround). For quality games, unless a non profit investment fund is made ( there are some public ones in some countries), and indie dev small games, until the next video games crash, it's not gonna happen.

[@photonpattern]

Well said, traveller, well said

[@krisl2838]

Yup, exactly how i felt. I didn't connect to the characters at all, there was no soul, no purpose.

[@ΒασιληςΓιαννελος-ε4θ]

This made me sad fam 😢

[@coltglass1270]

The darktide game loop is mind numbing!

[@LETSROCKTA]

I cant believe that before darktide's launch I had never even heard of Vermintide. I've played my whole life and not once has it crossed my news feed. And now I feel sad that I missed it. I sure as hell would've dried it out.

[@theactionwindow5008]

Never too late man! It's got a really dedicated core playerbase, although small now. It really is a magic game as well. So many layers to peel back :)

[@allisvain123]

Definitely not getting immersed in Darktide when a small doggo keeps my big Ogryn down for a whole minute 😮‍💨

[@brastionskywarrior6951]

I really hope they make a game that wasnt utterly rushed when darktide 2 comes out. Or at least they make 1 decent

[@MrSupurdave]

I'm pretty sure that most of the areas currently in the area you are showcasing didn't exist at release. I wish I knew where to look this up but I played vermintide 2 from beta for a few years but not much in the past 2 years or so. if I recall correctly Taal Horns Keep was expanded gradually over a long time.

[@trevorclaus1432]

You are right, it changed in many places and a few characters rooms even moved. It was not as cool as it is now.

[@SalvaTheGod81]

the problem with the game is notjust the lack of soul. wh 40.000 is far more grim than his fantasy counterpart and that surely impact the "soul" part. the fact that you are forced in a clunky third person situation full of loading screen everytime you want to change character is tedious, and running around the ship feels like a chore. the levels are what impacted the most. they are very few, some missions unlock different parts while never really changing locations, i can't play a multiplayer game with 6 maps, the escamotage of changing paths inside is fun at the start but become tedious in a week. vermintide 2 had a lot of levels, and while they may be less detailed than darktide they are surely more fun and add to the replayability of the title so much. and they still felt repetitive after a while until chaos waste came out, which made the game perfect. i don't believe it has no soul, it's one of the best representations of the 40.000 world that i have ever seen, but the game is in early access even though they say final version, and some of its features (the ship, the crafting system, the dedicated servers) are horrible, and some of it, like the weapon balance ( the lasgun and the bolter are simply too strong compared to everything else), the amount of playable levels and the "story" seems to be made by a disabled person. dont know what they were thinking honestly

[@theactionwindow5008]

I don't think disability has much to do with whether or not one can write a compelling story, but I hear what you are saying and, with the exception of the disabled comment, agree with your takes.

[@SalvaTheGod81]

@@theactionwindow5008 i meant that as a means to describe how naive and foolish they were in thinking that an hakf assed release like that would satisfy the game fanbase. Its a way to avoid the algorithim that delete comments based on words and i knew that disabled is not one of them. Didnt mean to offend anyone, and if i did i'm sorry

[@theactionwindow5008]

@@SalvaTheGod81 all good man I know you didn't mean anything by it, just a language thing init.

[@simongrozov1801]

You're contradicting yourself there. You're saying that being left with nothing more than your imagination is what creates an incredible video game experience. Then you proceed to Darktide and complain about how much in your opinion is 'missing' from the hub area. And then you're saying that because of this lack of something, you have to imagine things, and that makes you sad, and that's why the game has no soul. Like, it's exactly what makes an incredible game and gives it a soul, even in your own words said just before that. And, tell you what, there's nothing missing from the game artistically. Too little content - yes. But content lacking soul - absolutely not. It's a different setting that calls for a different mindset to get a feel of. I agree with what you said about Taal's Horn Keep, but comparing it to Darktide is apples and oranges, really.

[@skyarchi]

sad and real

[@turtlemop8712]

100% the darktide hub needs to be completely redone

[@theactionwindow5008]

Playing a bit of DRG atm in the interim between patches and the hub is so full of life and features. Not saying Darktide's hub should have a bar and a dance floor but it should at the very least be interactive in some way beyond 3 fucking vendors and a place to load into the training area.

[@Tharmorteos]

i do have to agree. after playing darktide for so many hours, i kinda forgot how disappointed i was to enter the game for the first time and see that there is no personal space to sit and chat with friends, to place trophies to show off your accomplishments in the game and ow it all felt kinda generic-mmo like with all these random people running around. yes i understand that fatshark wants you to feel like a nobody on the ship, like expendable cannon fodder to die for the emperor and be forgotten. but people play games to escape reality ;) it would be nice if people would have more slots for clothes to mix and match to at least be creative with their character's appearances. though i can imagine that the hub in darktide will see more stuff being added to it. there are many closed doors and areas where stuff can be added. and there's also an elevator, so stuff like a mess hall could also be added in the future. but for now, as you said, fatshark is focused on damage control to make sure their new flagship doesn't sink

[@leventhumps3861]

It’s good now. Give Darktide another chance

[@TheVeganFinalBoss]

it is not. the input lag and performance is atrocious for one, 70fps on a 2k pc is shocking

[@2nDeveloper]

I think you miss the fact that this is a big company split into multiple teams with focus on different things. The people working on creating the world are not the same people working on solving crashes and progression. I think the real question is if that teams focus will be on new missions or making the hub more immersive. I think the barebones hub is a great point to bring up and not enough people mention it. Which I think will be the primary reason why it might not be focused on by the developers. So thanks for the video!

[@theactionwindow5008]

I'm not an expert in how Development studios but I'm aware that they have multiple teams responsible for different things. What I worry is that the game has been released in such a 'behind completion state' that the panic to release and develop new stuff will take precedence over improving what's in the game. It's funny, because I think making the Hub a more social, appealing place for players would actually go a decent way towards soothing the bad blood at the developers right now.

[@zeroknight5594]

Yea cause darktide has nothing to offer and somehow it's already full released. And honestly do agree to your point.

[@zaedrah3378]

Darktide for me is already just as good at VT2, now. The updates have gotten it into a much better place. VT2 will always hold a special place for me, but I much prefer the combat of DT.

[@guilliman1990]

Vermintide is stunning thats the difference darktide just does not compete

[@falcon3205]

You articulated what we are all feeling eloquently. Cheers, new sub.

[@theactionwindow5008]

Thank you mate appreciate it!

[@sbraypaynt]

Coming back a year later and still not nearly enough views.

[@ЗайцевПетр-д3щ]

Actually darktide should be soulless in vermintide we are part of friends squad, that can rest and spend time together in pease between missions, eye of a storm. We are heroes, with personality and respect. In darktide we are… nothing, inquisition tools, who will die in a corner of hive city and no one remember you. In dark future this is only war But agree, we need dinner room

[@theactionwindow5008]

I think a game can have soul without compromising the setting. The hub in Darktide is just depressing and doesn't do the setting of 40k justice.

[@whatisbestinlife8112]

Darktide feels like inspired gameplay/art/audio designers of the Vermintide games saddled with mobile game producers/management who have no idea how to make a good PC/console game that will have extended appeal to PC/console gamers, but arrogantly think they do.

[@theactionwindow5008]

I feel this. It's like they took the best of Fatshark's art and game feel developers, locked them in a silo somewhere, then bought in a bunch of suits to dictate how to design the out of mission parts of the game. And it's a shame because what you describe really shows. The Mourningstar is a soulless husk filled with menus I don't really want to interact with, including the mission board. But once I'm in a mission, it's (largely) pure joy. Shitty netcode stuff nonwithstanding, of course.

[@giovanni3798]

Get tencent out of the gaming industry

[@tbone9912]

Wow. A game that Fatshark has been working on, improving, patching, tweaking, and adding on to for almost 5 years is more fleshed out, detailed and complete-feeling than a game they released 6 weeks ago. How strange! Who would have thought that this would be the case?!?! Did you see VT2 when it was first released? It was a mess.

[@theactionwindow5008]

I did not, but I heard about it. You'd just hope that developers would learn from their mistakes and maybe take on board so of that experience they'd garnered over the course of that game's 5 year lifespan.

[@redhammer92]

I dont think VT2 have been a mess as well is a very good excuse to do it again, but worse this time. I dont follow this logic.

[@semagicus693]

Played VT2 from day 1, and it was NOT a mess.

[@akaroth7542]

@@semagicus693 ...hard disagree

[@canicheenrage]

Darktide is VT2 in space. It has not even a barebone version of what VT2 is. It has been years, FS is no longer a small studio, and the issues at VT2 launch were identified and fixed. VT2 launch state is not a valid excuse for DT having a comparable one years later.

[@nex4613]

Sadness 😔

[@thefatbob3710]

I disagree it fits the 40k universe perfectly in my opinion You gotta remember how bleack and dark this world is meant to be Hive cities are meant to be claustrophobic and dark with a almost endless amount of corridors that if feels like your in a backrooms level, it’s how the 40k universe is meant to be portrayed with the only exceptions being tau and eldar worlds

[@theactionwindow5008]

I'm more talking about the lack of any kind of creativity in the Mourningstar's design. Imo they could have made the Mourningstar more expansive and immersive without compromising the theme of the setting. Cause right now I don't feel immersed in the setting at all, the Mourningstar just feels like 3 uninteresting empty corridors that link Vendors together and a mission select screen together. Nothing grimdark or 40k about that.

[@thefatbob3710]

@@theactionwindow5008 I see what you mean. And I respect your opinion

[@Pinoisreadingabook]

i want to blame tencent but i know fatshark is not the same too

[@heavyflamerheresy2581]

I hoped Dark tide would have ben a space marine type game. As space marine had horde mode, But also a campain. And I fell like Dark tide is missing the story, I know we are suppose to go in there and save the city or die for emperium. But it fell like a Daily mission in wow, and that is why I dont play wow anymore.

[@DrCthulhuface]

I feel like the "we want to be immersed" angle really misses the mark here. The real issue with Darktide isn't that the hubworld is boring, it's the the systems in the game are designed by people who have no idea what they're doing. Everything from classes to items to missions are completely bunk.

[@theactionwindow5008]

Largely agree with most your point here, but I do really want to be immersed, and I don't think I'm alone there. I see a lot of people in game doing soft roleplay with their characters when playing, and I think for many this game was the first that really captures the feeling of just being a random grunt in an enormous, cruel and uncaring galaxy. I just wish they went a little harder on that. Still, we've seen some steps in the right direction. The tweak to the ending of Enclavum Baross was hopeful. I have a feeling we will see changes to the hub eventually.

[@brendonmaher1513]

I give massive praise to the designers of Darktide’s combat system, level, sounds and art style. Unfortunately, the directors of this game came straight out of the gate with cash grab shop, no focus on additional areas, no focus on crossplay or basically anything else the loyal community wants. Basically like encouraging the diehard fans to bugger off. It’s almost like they’ve been bribed to tank their own game at the behest of a larger parent company. Otherwise, why do exactly the same things that have ruined other potentially great games over the past 10 years?

[@theactionwindow5008]

It's just heart breaking man. I had such high hopes for Darktide and it was just an unfinished, bad designed mess. The combat, level design and art direction is all incredible as you say but everything that binds that together is just pure, drizzling shit. All they had to do was take a leaf from another very successful co op shooters book in regards to their gear progression system and hub design and it would have been fine. Instead we got 3 boring vendors and more RNG than a casino.

[@brendonmaher1513]

@@theactionwindow5008 Haha! That's it in a nutshell! I finally stopped playing it to try Starship Troopers Extermination. After a few days, I came back and looked at the weeklies.... Same old shit. Same old tasks... Again looking for the elusive blessings to spend your Ordos on. Walked up to the level hub....Same old levels... then asked myself... Do I really want to grind this shit again with all my class characters? Just couldn't do it... I decided I couldn't be fucked with all that crap, just to come back and try out the RNG slot machine known as weapons crafting Hadron bullshit. Just to maybe make a half decent weapon, or squander all the resources I'd grinded for nothing (again) . I hit escape and decided to come back to the game later... Maybe when or if they fix it. First time I've done that since buying it... I dreaded the day I'd start to run out of fucks to give this game. But I knew if they kept fobbing off the loyal community with more woven sack, shite prison attire and empty promises, it was only a matter of time. It's a shame that Vermintide took so long to get right. In the end it was a really good game. You'd think they'd have learned their lesson from their own mistakes, let alone the mistakes other companies made.

[@theactionwindow5008]

@@brendonmaher1513 At this point they have to know how much it's hated, which means at some point (tm) down the line it will be rectified. I just think we'll be waiting another couple of years for the version of Darktide we all imagined.

[@Gurman01]

Interesting viewpoint, always been interested in 40k but never played the earlier games. Darktide my first foray into the 40K universe. There is a lot to dislike about the current version of the game and a massive amount they need to do to get it to its final version. As is the case with all major game releases now, publish early and spend years fixing it.. cyberpunk a prime example. The game has about another few months of my interest before I move onto something else, unless it deserves my time. Everyone I speak to says they are just waiting for space marine 2… is that by fatshark as well? If so, DT may already be dead. I do like it, so let’s see what happens. Ever the optimist

[@theactionwindow5008]

I'll be playing Darktide for years to come I imagine, assuming it makes it out of this dark period of its lifespan. SM2 not Fatshark and tbh is a lot more of a one off play through kind of game (if it sticks to the same formula as the original). Definitely won't be replacing Darktide at any length as it's a very different experience. Fatshark really just have to learn how to be a good game developer and: 1) patch their game more frequently, with Hot Fixes and the like. 2) Communicate with their playerbase more. Even if it's just updates. You can't just do nothing and ghost your entire playerbase and expect everything to be fine. They've made some absolutely awful decisions in these last 2 months and they're paying for it now. I only hope that they can reverse the damage in the long term, cause at the core of this game is something really good. It's just currently swaddled in shit.

[@Gurman01]

I completely agree with DT and if they keep me interested and a reason to play I will hang around. I cannot believe we haven’t had a patch since December, the crashes are annoying and the performance a hinderance. Fingers crossed they pull their socks up and get on with delivering what they should have. Btw the shots of VT2 looked amazing…. I am a Skyrim fan so those scene really connect with me!

[@Fourger14]

@@Gurman01 If you like the look of Vermintide 2, you should consider going back and playing it / buying it, especially if there is a sale. The missions themselves actually tell stories more, and the game received a free mission just a few weeks ago. Since Warhammer: Fantasy is so different from Warhammer: 40k, Fatshark are actively supporting both games for the different fanbases, and Verm 2 has been out long enough that it's actually a complete game instead of an unfinished product pushed early for corporate greed.

[@Gurman01]

@@Fourger14 thanks I might actually install it, I managed to get it free end of last year on steam.

[@Fourger14]

@@Gurman01 Heck yeah, friendo. No price better than free.

[@Ehodil]

Absolutely true. :(

[@KEEPROLLINROLLINROLLINROLLINYO]

darktide is whack yo doesn't even feel like im killing hordes yo

[@KEEPROLLINROLLINROLLINROLLINYO]

uninstalled yo

[@ohnegative9526]

Blame Tencent for this travesty.

[@Saberdud]

The gaming scene is kinda shit right now

[@theactionwindow5008]

Truth. Fed up of corporate greed turning what could be creative masterworks to crap all in the name of shareholder dividends.

[@MrSteve0311]

You're right, but indie games are on the rise. Take a break from AAA/AA and dive into the indie underbelly.

[@rara3538]

what happens when you try to be a genre you arent (darktide hub is wannabe RPG with 0 RPG elements)

[@Nebx1989]

Strongly disagree with the assertion that the game has no soul. The game sucks and is very much unfinished, but the one thing it has is soul. The level design, art, and feel all perfectly capture the 40k universe. It's a gem stuck in a pile of shit that it probably won't ever dig itself out of.

[@theactionwindow5008]

I guess it really depends how you interpret 'soul'. They've captured the aesthetic of 40k really well, I agree with that. The art direction is superb. But I don't feel immersed in the universe precisely because of the pile of shit you mention. If anything, the sparsity of soul is actually ruining the immersion for me.

[@coldeed]

It's neat to hear someone talk about worldbuilding as if 40k is supposed to be lighthearted and fun in themes, where expression is heavily supported and endorsed. Kinda comes off as you just subjectively prefering a different tone with how poorly you describe the difference. Make better videos where its less art opinions and direct attention to features and streamline the differences between the two. Because the training area is a direct upgrade in darktide. The dumbys in V2 barely serve any purpose by comparison. Darktide is lacking several features of convince, in the same manner v2 does for the dlc content it put out although only half of that matters considering weaves is a pretty dead content zone. Part of the problem of all this detail is half the time V2 wasted it time adding artistic details while releasing sub par content in function. Take chaos wastes, its still a mess thats rather buggy and unpolished. Idc if the peripheral details in its custom lobby and extra junk lore sits in a room I dont want to be in at all if the shit crashes when I'm acting playing the game. Which is the state its still in from me playing it a week ago vs the first few months after it dropped. That isn't any endorsement to fatshark, its a habit we will likely see carried over to darktide that will make it a slow build to patch the holes in the game. It is a focus on immersion that will have a game in 40k be restrictive, depersonalized, and overall lacking in identity as people are thrown into the meat grinder that is the imperium's method of maintaining its status quo. If you want more details it needs to come at consequence to the lore and themes of 40k, and thats what should ultimately be done. Function and appeal should come before form, as you can add beauty and detail after you make an effort to make something work well and draw people in.

[@redhammer92]

I mean...a game should be enjoyable to the player....

[@coldeed]

@@redhammer92 people have different tastes. Being appealing to one person is being worse to another

[@BullHorn7]

😢

[@TWOHUNDREDPOUNDSOFCHEESE]

:'(

[@alexwilbrecht6962]

Having a soul would detract from the setting of 40K. Vermintide 2 had actual heroes with a beautiful relationship and a quest they could win, but it was all hopeless in the end due to the end times inevitably. This allows for a soul as the writing is made to humanize the player characters In darktide, and 40k generally, a human life is almost worthless, your player character is a nobody, and a nothing. Your job is to go down to the planet, and if you die it’s no big deal. Making the world of 40K empathize-able would detract from the narrative, whereas in Vermintide the fact you empathize with the characters and the world makes the tragedy of the end times even sadder.

[@Gattsu95]

I think the point went over your head bro. A soulless game is always bad there are no excuses. You can capture that hopeless, apathetic towards the characters feel without the game feeling like a soulless bare bones game. Example: darksouls has a hopeless feeling and nobody expects you to even succeed and even when you do the ending isnt really completely a happy one. This game has so much soul its in the title and its what makes the game feel alive and memorable.

[@theactionwindow5008]

You've misinterpreted what I mean by soul here. I'm talking about the personality/magic of a game that stems inherently from creativity and world building. Warhammer 40k has a metric ton of inspiriation for world building they could draw upon to make this game an absolute masterpiece and NONE of it is present in Darktide. Where is the story? Where are the stakes? Where are the NPCs I can talk to that aren't Vendors? Where's the Navigator of the ship? The Shipmistress? The Inquisitor? Where are our sad, bleak little personal chamber we can steal a few moment's rest between missions? Where's our mess hall? Where is the ship hangar with the Valkyrie that takes us from the Mourningstar down to Tertium? Where is the principle antagonist? Why did he turn to Nurgle? What happened to the Moebian VI that made them bring the Darktide to Tertium? Where are the wider Imperium? Do they know the war is on? Atoma is said to be an unloseable asset, why? ALL of this constitutes as part of the soul of a game and none of it is present. There is nothing here that would detract from the setting of 40k. Only add to it.

[@alexwilbrecht6962]

@@theactionwindow5008 the story is suffering due to the live action service model but so far I am invested in the evolving situation on Atoma The stakes are relatively low because it fits 40k’s themes to have millions die for a relatively unimportant planet Your player character isn’t important enough to talk to anyone of importance, if they were it would again harm the themes It would be nice to see the mess hall, bunks and etc. but that could also humanize our characters more which again would detract from the themes of worthlessness I would love a hanger, good idea The antagonist is dealing with people that actually matter, and why the moebian 6th fell would be nice to know but I think that will be explored in the future as it is a live service model, there needs to be mysteries that will be solved later to keep people coming back. The wider imperium are on the Indomitus crusade as Gulliman has just returned, which is stretching resources thin. Most of your additions would serve to make the themes of worthlessness less prominent and detract from the narrative that makes 40K such an intriguing setting.

[@alexwilbrecht6962]

@@Gattsu95 my point is that making the game more “soulful” would detract from the narrative that has been written. Darksouls is hopeless because you cannot save the world We can save Tertium and Atoma, that’s the point of the game, to try and save it. So the hopelessness comes from the sheer expendability of our player character. We do not matter, we are barely human meat to be fed into the grinder of Tertium, grunts to accomplish unimportant tasks.

[@theactionwindow5008]

@@alexwilbrecht6962 I just in no way can agree that adding stuff to the hub to improve overall immersion is in any a detractor from the universe. The universe should be bleak through story telling and world building, not through absence of creativity or game design. I've been into 40k for about 27 odd years now and I would love to see more of the world, not an empty husk filled by uninspired vendors. If you're looking at the Mourningstar and everything it contains and thinking 'this is it. this is 40k as I imagine it and the player experience I desire' then I don't know what else to say to you.

[@moogiibat5845]

It feels like the modern triple AAA games