Why Destiny 2 feels brutally unrewarding to play.

[@Hynra]

Just my personal thoughts on the current state of the loot system. In short; I feel like completing a strike should give me a random strike weapon. IB = IB weapons, Gambit = Gambit weapons. It just feels bad to spend time to get a specific weapon only to get nothing at the end of it. You get exp, but I feel like this should be a side "extra" reward on top of the physical loot you get upon a completion. It also makes farming "exp" feel like a waste of time when you're not doing them in weeks where you get double exp for "x" activity.

[@simplyclapped]

This is exactly why i have stopped playing

[@cynicalPixels]

For perspective, this is the same company that denied they were throttling XP. The same company that offered their customers a chance to purchase an anniversary bundle... to say "thank you" for the last 30 years... if you say thank you to someone, you don't bill them for the sentiment 😂

[@Fenyxclips]

Gambit I really want to play but nothing drops when in there and when something does drop: world loot drop. Loved the mode when it was around and still do. Just doesn't feel right with weapons from the loot pool of the world dropping instead of the weapons specifically designed FOR Gambit.

[@Andy-ch2ry]

Maybe they can just modify the XP in whole and take the armorset/emblem thingy and make this new engram drop rate along side

[@mininearby]

I'm confused I normally get those drops at least every other sometimes two at once iron banner being an exception

[@Oblivion9996]

They need to massively increase the chances of a weapon/engram drop in gambit, strikes and iron banner, it wouldnt be a bad thing for normal pvp either

[@naiveveg8447]

no. guaranteed drop. complete the strike, gambit, crucible match. get one gun

[@Oblivion9996]

@@naiveveg8447 that would be even better, sadly I don't think Bungie would do that

[@naiveveg8447]

@@Oblivion9996 sadly not.

[@atsukana1704]

That’s why a lot of craftable weapons exist. Pve mains may groan at the thought every time one shows up that is all pvp based but they do exist there for a reason. Problem is the majority of the player base only does EITHER pve or pvp, not both. Which is why people also groan at good pve weapons being located in trials. As much as we want to create a good loop this way, we just can’t without making it annoying somehow. That said, craftable weapons for trials and IB would not be a bad idea in the slightest.

[@DeesNas]

I like the fact that the whole community complains about this game because we all really want to play it but the game is not incentivising us to do so. I hope we get more good stuff in the coming seasons and DLCs

[@MumboJumboZXC]

We won’t

[@kingpatatochip3357]

I feel like season are part of the problem tbh, maybe the new system will be better but an mmo where 50% of the grind vanishes every year is not good. Even some of the oldest events in wow will have people queing up meanwhile destiny wants you to pay 12$ for a few hours of story, the same 1-2 activities over and over, and fill out a bp for your rewards. Even the dlcs arnt worth the money thanks to dugeon keys now. Wq was great but unless ya bought the100$delux ya got maybe 10~of gameplay which is realy just playing it 3 times across 3 characters. People always say ya get a "year worth of content" with the dlcs but fr would you even be playing much rn if it wasnt for fomo season?

[@shovelmmhh]

​@@MumboJumboZXCtook the words right outta my mouth

[@radiogiraffe]

Completely agree. I just stop playing and mainly do weeky season story missions. There's no chase anymore outside of raids and maybe dungeon loot.

[@Saucedup16]

This is why borderlands felt so good to play, literally anything you did you were showered with loot, and I mean SHOWERED. The only reason why bungie just refuses to give loot to players is drive engagement up to keep players on for longer. This definitely kills most activities for me.

[@Hynra]

The problem is Bungie fails to balance between retention and engagement. So when they make something take too long purely for retention, players will lose interest because in their eye it's just not worth the hassle, aka not engaging.

[@xzcrimzonomegazx9143]

That and the enemies in Borderlands aren't fucking bullet sponges (Except OP mode in Borderlands 2 but that was a choice) My god Neptune was terrible in early lightfall I'd be there emptying clips into enemies like I'm wasting my time

[@brivs512]

​@@Hynrawhat I find bizarre is how backwards the loot systems have been for so long. There's been ways to get endgame or close to endgame loot with little investment (ie gunsmith random rolls, free crafted gun patterns, insane high stat armor from seasonal vendors, etc). However on the other side the actual endgame or time consuming content has almost always been very unrewarding and plagued with heavy rng. Why would I ever play a GM when I get better armor and guns from playing seasonal activities? And those seasonal activities usually have a set path that lets me get what I want fast compared to rng adept drops and dealing with cipher caps. I don't think I need to say anything about raids or comp to a higher skill player like you lol it's not good Idk how they can fix this now since there is so much power creep rn. Personally I often have no interest in grinding because not many things make me want to stop using solar on any class in pve or arc/void titan in pvp(either because it doesn't do much to change my play style or it doesn't compare to the potency and ease of use I already have). Some things they add are really interesting, but they make things take longer in a game that already disrespects my time. I hope they figure something out with the final shape.

[@Forcer69]

Honestly between reskins, over saturated loot pools, stingy drops, adept/weapon crafting, power creep, and just weapons feeling samey I don’t care about loot anymore. Grinding in Destiny just feels like a waste of time, especially when you know that gun you grinded will get power crept in 2-3 seasons.

[@iambenutzungslos3136]

It was a great idea from Bungie to bring the Exotic Mission Rotator... It can be quite rewarding. But if you can already craft everything, it's pointless... I think it would be great for Bungie to actually give us a way to get Loot :)

[@iambenutzungslos3136]

But it is the same with Dungeons, if you get, what you wanted, you don't touch the Activity anymore... Still getting that in the first place, is in my opinion the most fun in this game, but yeah...Ways to get there :) pls more :)

[@Hynra]

I love the rotator, new players can get unobtainable weapons is a w. Problem is I think crafting in D2 ruined the loot grind, but I also don't think that exotic mission/dungeon/raids are designed to be repayable forever like the core playlists activities. At least if there's a buff/nerf for weapons/perks old weapons can shine for example duke as a 120 hand cannon with rampage, not a lot of players have it because it was previously a terrible weapon. The problem is with crafting, even if the weapon is bad, if it ended up like duke, you can just craft it whenever you want since you have the patterns unlocked instead of trying to get it again.

[@NukZey]

The exotic mission rotator is a step in the right direction. Dropping old craftable seasonal weapons helps newer players catch up on all of the stuff they may have missed out on and reduces the FOMO if they don't manage to get all red borders for a weapon during a year. Then again, farming the same exotic mission tens of times over and over again isn't very fun and I wish there would be a way you can focus which gun you get from the activity. For instance, if you just need one red border for the IKELOS SMG, imagine how frustrating it would be if you just keep getting the sniper and shotgun.

[@iambenutzungslos3136]

@@Hynra i think Crafting has been the worst and one of the best ideas, Bungie has ever had. It is such fun, finally getting that God Roll perk combination... Looking at it and seing it just didn't drop with what you, in any way wanted... The best part about crafting in my opinion is, obiously Enhanced Perks, but also finally having a 5/5. (Obviously, we all had 5/5 before in some way) But now we can min max (which unfortunately isn't the best thing to go after, for people who don't want to, or don't have the time to) with crafting weapons just like we want them, just making them "Our baby :)" But the worst part about crafting is just that, looking at a gun, seeing a white Boarder, not looking at it and dismantling it... Wouldn't it be great, if Bungie hadn't ever brought crafting, but made it just like they did with Adept Raid Weapons? Think about it, you have to still farm for a "God Roll", which is in my opinion the best part about this game, till when you can finally make your perfect builds with it. But then, you would be able to make it even spicier, by Enhancing it... Great idea? But not happening anymore, because Bungie did a good change and a bad change (with Crafting as a whole)

[@iambenutzungslos3136]

@@NukZey i still didn't have Hollow Denial, while i had some Firefrights still sitting in my Vault, thinking about harmonizing them if i don't have anything to harmonize at a later date. I got so many red boarder Firefrights from that, while i waited for so long with only needing 2 Hollow Denials, that i had to run the Activity countless times... I later got it while running some legendary runs of the activity, which i think, is way more rewarding. Like i said, i don't have a problem with farming, but i can't imagine, how it would be, to farm the other Exotic Missions, i did last week to craft the Messenger, but i still don't want to try this weeks...

[@blacktuesday7427]

Definitely agree on Iron Banner, I've quit destiny 2 for a bit and its quite relieving to just not care anymore about trials or iron banner loot, grinding endlessly for minimal, garbage rewards.

[@Summerstitch539]

This. So many other games to get into. Left shortly after lightfall and realized just how exploitative this game really is.

[@blacktuesday7427]

@@Summerstitch539 Definitely, its really unfortunate how much of a time sink it is with how the state of the game is today, I used to be really invested in the story and weekly/monthly events and now its just become a drag on my schedule and my mind to waste more and more and get less and less from a company that doesn't want to "overdeliver".

[@Chaska117]

Yeah your right I can never be asked to farm these kind of things anymore when the rewards are hard to get and a god roll is like 1 in 2000. Hopefully bungie will address this soon

[@ilrathCXV]

Let's not forget the Forsaken WANTED loot system: you could target farm a few WANTED enemies for specific loot from that expansion (Dust Rock Blues anyone?). The fact we haven't had anything like that in the world space since then is terrible. I would bring that back for Lost Sectors. On top of adding World Loot to Public Events, Lost Sector bosses should have a few dedicated weapons in the drop table. Would also give another reason to farm Legend/Master Lost Sectors once you don't need Exotics anymore. For Patrol, LS drops are chance based. For Legend/Master, the drops are guaranteed.

[@SirScrumply]

It feels especially apparent when you consider that you get seasonal engrams VERY often, and while that could be attributed to the fact its earned in any activity, the drop rate of said engrams are very high. Whereas like you said, ritual engrams are far and few between for the time commitment given.

[@gommyboi380]

I fully do not care about the loot. I have not and will not farm dares even though i have none of the weapons crafted and only have like 3 random rolls of one of them cause dares ISNT FUN. I have been stuck on the witch queen crafting quest for 2 years cause wellspring ISNT FUN. Another thing is that new weapons have to be REALLY unique in order to be something that i want to get cause odds are i already have a gun like it.

[@RonaldMcJuicy]

Playlist activities aside, I *really* wish they did more with patrols. Patroling is basically pointless at all stages of the game. Which BLOWS because we have all these huge, incredibly detailed and interesting planets filled with dialogue and stories to tell, just sitting there taking up so much space, but nobody cares to explore them, because there's no reason to. The only reason anyone ever loads into patrol zones is to fish, find Xur, and go to lost sectors. The first of which requires standing completely still, and the other two take less than a minute. I think putting world drops into the public events is a STELLAR idea, provided there's some sort of lockout system, 'cus the world pool is crazy bloated.

[@ryan5412]

I think fortress should act like control until the center point. Then it should shift to holding that single point. It would speed up the game and be more enjoyable on smaller maps cause the run back to center is shorter.

[@Krypz]

Why are we getting fortress for 2/3 of the iron banner weeks this season, I loved eruption and think it was a great addition

[@Hynra]

I would start as simple as removing battle royal maps from Destiny 2. Like why do I have to walk for 10 seconds every time I die before I see a single person.

[@Ginyasha-]

I thought the same thing about the modes this season 😅 I wonder if it's because you can be a mediocre player but still rank high in the match if you just run around and capture zones?

[@MeGaDwarf2008]

​@@Hynrawhile disjunction is an obvious example of why it sucks, I don't want to go back to spawn-camping. Spawn distance can obviously be improved, but I'd rather Bungie stay more conservative. I don't want Destiny to turn into run& gun like CoD. I'm already a bit concerned with TTK creep, going below 0.7s regularly.

[@cerulean5032]

Eruption is pretty ass imo, but it's still better than fortress.

[@bloodmoonangel8925]

I have said this for so long, but not just from ritual activities. Getting 2 or 3 weapons (if any at all because RNG sucks) for doing a full run of a dungeon or raid is insane and asinine. How can Destiny claim to be a looter shooter when you can maybe get a single weapon every 10-20 minutes? It's even worse in GMs with no double loot rewards, because GMs like Lightblade or Lake of Shadows take forever to do, all for a single weapon that more often than not won't have the perks you want. Weapon crafting shouldn't be a crutch for a fundamental issue with the game, and how unbelievably stingy Bungie is with rewards, both on high end content and low end content. As a side note, why is Bungie so hell-bent on making legendary armor have shit stats? The only armor worth farming is artifice armor, and only from certain sources because some dungeons have fucked stat distribution. Why can't Master raids drop artifice armor too? Ridiculous

[@Maxeh]

LET HIM COOK! I’m there with you on all this stuff 10000%. I’ve had the exact same ideas and feeling about the game recently. There’s SO MUCH in the game to collect, just get us on a track to getting what we want faster instead of burning me out and making me not want to play anymore. I have so much shit in my vault, I don’t want to grind 7 hours for a gun that COULD be .07% better than one in my vault, and that’s *could*. I played through Borderlands 3 again recently and got blown away with how much loot is thrown at you. I’m not saying what BL3 does would work for D2, but Bungie should be taking notes. The game rewards you for just… playing.

[@JPOG7TV]

We literally went back to vanilla d1 with strike rewards. You would get nothing most of the time. Legendaries and exotics could drop but it’s was so rare. What’s funny is that bungie said that with the Taken King, they changed activity rewards to at least give you something instead of nothing.

[@Anthony_P-k8g]

I haven’t played destiny in about a year the main reason for me being that once I get top level weapons and armor well now what … it feels like there’s nothing to use it on since the game doesn’t really require min maxing except for something like a day 1 raid I get bored fast

[@Hynra]

I feel like crafting is part of the problem since you have full control of an arsenal of weapons whenever an archetype or a perk gets buffed instead of needing to farm the weapon. You just have everything any time you want.

[@Rhukzy]

Neoma red borders from golden patrols is 0,1% nowadays. Only way to get red border is weekly story missions, 200k per account gives one guaranteed nowadays.

[@nevetsgonnaletyougo1940]

Agreed with you. Neomuna is the worst because you’re fighting strong HVT and you get a lovely 300 glimmer at times.

[@majesticbbqsauce727]

Never thought we'd miss the days of two tokens and a blue.

[@Hynra]

to be fair, exp rank up engrams are basically tokens but better. Just wish the actual weapons are guarantee drops after a completion so it doesn't feel like I'm playing for nothing.

[@boltstriker7736]

Now imagine how frustrating it is when what you most want in the game is a can you literally cannot farm for like the nox perennial fusion rifle

[@jordan-psy]

fyi, psi ops battlegrounds in vanguard playlists are bugged, they flat out don't give any rewards no matter what

[@QuietDarkness27]

Loot scarcity is the name of the game is D2. Hell leveling up playlist vendors feels even more scarce. I seriously don’t get why they don’t guarantee a drop after completion. I also don’t get why playlist bounties don’t count to the progression of the playlist vendor (you know how it works with seasonal vendors). I feel like, each level you put into a playlist vendor should guarantee the additional perks options, and a percentage increase of additional weapon drops that stacks after a vendor level up. So like if each vendor level up guaranteed a 20% chance to have an additional drop, after five levels in your vendor you would guarantee 2 drops. Make the farming worth the player time. D2 is the least looter of the looter shooter genre, and it sucks…

[@jamescruz8678]

Bungie just wants us to play the game longer to fluff up their metrics to show off to their investors. It's why the previous method of obtaining mods required us to log in every day instead of just letting us choose which of the missing mods we need to buy, why the current method of obtaining previously unobtainable shaders requires us to log in every week instead of just letting us purchase them all at once, why the first iteration of obtaining transmog materials was so convoluted. EDIT: How could I forget the power system lol. Before they stopped increasing the power cap you had to grind your way every season to be as powerful as you were last season. They also took away the only way of purchasing Legendary Shards and replaced it with a vendor who not only doesn't sell them, but also limits the amount of materials you could buy every day/week while making them prohibitively expensive. Every time they make it easier to get something, they introduce another way of making it needlessly tedious for another thing, artificially forcing us to play longer.

[@WetikoD2]

Dumping full bounties and openning dares boxes on reset day gives me enough dopamine to make it through half the week. If im not playing trials or raiding with friends then the fun factor for me drops DRASTICALLY.

[@ZomHunterX]

*sarcastically* That 2 token and a blue is all of the sudden looking pretty good already.

[@sr_papu626]

Even if I eventually got bored of The Menagerie, I still think of it as the best seasonal activity just for the fact that you could easily focus the loot you wanted to the freakin masterwork, not to mention the Warmind Season Community Event (I think?) which double or triple the rewards, amazing.

[@jashjesus6929]

bro the public event idea is an actual w

[@mutantraze3681]

There are ways to skirt around power creep by simply making more weapons but different elements. I would absolutely farm for a strand GL with the same perks as the stasis one. I would not however farm something like DFA or plug one because its worthless and has better counterparts in the same slot (fatebringer and loaded question)

[@ijoko8910]

i feel like pinacle Weapons were one of the most rewarding things in D2 ever. Yes they were very powerful, but even if you missed a few seasons you had something to chase for and enjoy grinding the game for a cool unique weapon. Very lame now to just buy a ritual weapon from a previous season

[@giantslayer9335]

As someone who REALLY likes the whole aesthetic/vibe of iron banner, it really needs help in the “fun” department.

[@MeGaDwarf2008]

I really think Bungie should decide if they want Banner to be competitive or community event. I'm ok with losing every single match while grinding up the rep multiplier. But having to win 25 games for a title(with full IB fashion...) is a freaking nightmare without proper SBMM. So they should either make it have a more strict SBMM so that everyone has the same chances at winning, thus making the gilding have an estimated difficulty of 50 IB matches, or they should make rep gains and triumph less tied to wins, and let people who can win get that gilding done quicker. And yes, more loot. I'm ok with ditching regular crucible drops for guaranteed IB drops for example.

[@whiteboi6969]

I don't even grind for weapons anymore. Most, if not all of them are trash. I really only grind for armor so I can have drip. But even then, it's ass because the armor never fucking drops

[@shadow306k]

My two cents: The rep grind. Even on double rep weeks, Gambit rank resets are TWICE as fast because the amount of rep gained from Crucible matches, and the new scaling in Vanguard ops... I will just steer towards Gambit for getting that rank reset for the weapon and seasonal challenge, it takes 3 hours compared to a slog of strikes after strikes after strikes.

[@TheBillhs]

more than twice as fast

[@NukZey]

Hard agree on Fortress. The only thing that decides the match is whoever caps the point which means that whatever team has the most bubbles and wells, will come out victorious.

[@dkat1108]

And we paid $100 for this wonderful sheet.

[@kwkylewilliams462]

Yeah I think this has contributed a lot to me just playing so much less. I have no reason to play other than “I want that new shiny thing” but when my current build is just stronger and more fun, then what’s the purpose of wasting hours and hours just to get a weapon that I won’t even use.

[@waynekelly2121]

I have been playing Destiny for 10 yrs and I agree with you 💯 percent pvp is ass . It's not fun at all if your not playing against cheater's than it's a 6 stack of try hards . Every match has become the sweat Olympics. Lobby balancing does not exist. I'm just a Lil bit above average in pvp my kd is a low 2.14 I'm not good enough to carry 5 other team mates I wish I was but I'm not .

[@McDoodPedro]

Gosh I know I'm not a dev, but given each destination a set weapons would be fantastic! I would do patrols, lost sectors, and public events on the edz if I get world drop weapons with field test! It feels so sad that isn't the case

[@JB1Corinthians1558]

My exact thoughts. I've been playing Iron Banner all this week have gone through 2 resets of Saladin. Have thrown literally every single engram into Point of the Stag looking for an Archers Tempo/Precision instrument roll. Have not gotten a single one yet. It's so damn irritating.

[@Ginyasha-]

Completely agree mate. It's why I don't do any vanguard unless I need glimmer and the current nightfall weapon. Just so repetitive. Honestly, this season with it's seasonal activities are the first time I've been kinda interested in doing PVE apart from just getting a certain weapon. Iron Banner feels that way also so much especially with kills not counting whatsoever for fortress and then it costs so much to focus your engrams while not receiving much glimmer for completing the matches that I have to leave iron banner to go and do vanguard so I can actually focus my engrams 😅

[@nyssfairchild2244]

I only bother with Vanguard when I want either more golf balls, shards, or an adept of the current GM weapon. I'm right there with you.

[@cerulean5032]

Public events are currently the fastest way to get glimmer, not a lot more interesting, but it means you gotta suffer less

[@patrickmilton9168]

One thing that I belive was done better in D1 was raid loot. All rolls were curated, what they did was play with the drop rates of certain items. Just an example, Fatebringer had outlaw, firefly, and explosive rounds, but it only dropped from hard mode templar with a 10% drop rate. You didn't have to worry about the roll on top of it - if you got it it was going to be great.

[@IsaacSurf735]

Bro this 👌 I think the idea to have world loot drops tied to public events is such a good idea. Genuinely would be more stoked to get into a patrol zone if I knew I could get that new legendary strand fusion rifle from a public event/lost sector

[@tienation3568]

I love the idea of getting loot after completing the activity crazy how that is not already the case. I have spent every iron banner since jorums claw was reintroduced trying to get gutshot headseeker and have focused well over 150 of them and still have not gotten the combo a single time. this game seems to pride itself on making acquiring the loot the last thing you do and forgetting that the whole reason i want it is to us it in the game. getting the loot we search for does not get rid of our reason to play, it only adds to it.

[@asphyxiuh]

Something I saw people say that I also think is a good idea is that every single weapon should be craftable, and I know a lot of people don't like this but if it takes 10 or 20 red borders it could save a lot of people from just having bad luck. Because with how playlist weapons work theres just too many perks so even if you get thirty you may not even get the perk combo you want let alone good mag or barrels or mw. Another thing is that crafted weapon perks should be unlocked with how tedious it is to get one alloy and prisms. For example if I craft my Beloved with enhanced quickdraw but then I want to try out enhanced box breathing I should be able to go back to quickdraw for free because I "unlocked" it once already.

[@OcAizen]

to add on to your bit about strikes , it took me 20+ strikes to get 1 piece of the new armor set to even drop. which is asinine

[@howdoyouevenknow6526]

I’ve done way more than that and haven’t even seen a single piece rediculous

[@IDECIDETHETRUTH]

The thing about not getting loot at the end of a vanguard op was that back when you could really speedrun a strike it was fair. You had more oppurtunities to get loot if you ran the activity as fast as you could. Now we have strikes that don't have multiple outcomes anymore, the same dialogue and enemies, and everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) is health-gated and takes longer to complete. Combined with the fact that now it feels like battlegrounds show up more often than strikes, the vanguard ops playlist is a lifeless husk of it former self. The strikes were boring after playing the strikes a dozen times before the started health gating everything and integrating battelgrounds, but it was always fun to burn the bosses and clear rooms as fast as you could, and when you did get tired of doing that, you could always take a break and come back to them later with new weapons to fry the enemies again next season. The way the vanguard ops playlist is set up now is just the worst of every aspect of a looter shooter, and whereas before as a PvE player I used to enjoy the strike playlist, now I just do whatever raids I feel like running, maybe a dungeon or two, and stop playing for the week because once I complete those activities there's nothing else to do (let's not pretend the seasonal activities are even remotely interesting after like 4 years of the same thing over and over again.) Hopefully bungie makes a change in regards to this but honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't, and given the state things are in, TFS is going to be a wait and see moment from me, and not a pre-order. Good video Hynra, thanks for starting a discussion on this topic.

[@ethanb.r.5239]

although armor isn't included in the witch queen, high value targets do drop witch queen specific weapons (at least in a specific area)

[@santiklingo]

I agree, and I will say here what I have said many places like Reddit and Twitter, and other KZbin Videos. Destiny IS NOT a Looter Shooter anymore, it's a Quester Shooter. You are not showered with loot, or earning loot too much these days. Exotics are a great example of this. Back in the day, Destiny 1 especially, you would plat Strikes, and PvP in hopes to get one of the many Exotics you didn't have. You would get them from hidden chests in Raids, and you could get them from Xur. It was always exciting seeing that Exotic Engram drop. In Destiny 2 however, any new Exotics are either tied to the Season Pass, tied to seasonal quests, or are obtained from boring lost sectors. The Supernumerary Blitz is a great alternative to get Exotic drops. Any new Weapons and Armor are just bought from seasonal vendors, and the weapons are often times very average anyway. Dungeons and Raids DO have decent looting tied to them, however, being forced to go into end game activities to loot in the Looter Shooter, feels terrible. Forsaken brought a single Exotic Bounty for the first time in Destiny 2, and that was Lord of Wolves. Destiny 1 had like what, 5 total? Destiny 2 could GREATLY benefit from Exotic Bounties, and even just Legendary Bounties. A rare chance at turning Bounties in will give you a choice between 3 rare Legendary weapon or armor Bounties that have special and unique Legendary weapons and armor, or 3 Exotic Bounties that have specific Exotic weapons or armor tied to them. Destiny is no longer a looter shooter. You just do quests and spend currency or buy the Season Pass to get any new loot...

[@alhaque5497]

I agree, I was hunting for Monte Carlo catalyst by playing strikes, cause I dont enjoy pvp that much but man Im just playing 10 min or more strikes and it just ruins the fun for me and not to mention frustrating when I recieve nothing more than glimmer and vanguard weapons I don't even use.

[@samuelhofer7099]

High Value Targets in the Throne World do drop the weapons, you just need to kill specifically the Hive targets for some reason

[@trillshii]

Hit the nail on the head, the majority of the activities in this game are just not rewarding enough. An activity has to be either fun, rewarding, or both for me to bother with them. Thats why raids and dungeons are some of the best content in the game; they are interesting and fun, challenging at times and most importantly: REWARDING. the strike specific loot system is fantastic and why they scrapped it is beyond me; each strike should have its own individual drop outside of the vanguard playlist loot, it doesn't even matter if its something as basic as "Broodhold drops a veist smg with a hive rune decal on its barrel" just SOMETHING to incentivize me to play the activity. (yes I know broodhold is vaulted just using it as an example) I havent played Gambit in 4 seasons, PVP in 2 seasons, and I barely run anything other than weekly dungeons or raids because I simply do not feel like my time is being respected in areas outside of endgame PVE. PVP just has not been fun to me for a long time, the last periods I remember playing it, just for the sake of enjoyment, was around season 11 and season 16. (Seasonal activities are kind of an exemption to this rule I guess? They are quite rewarding, its just that the rewards themselves are usually quite lackluster. The weapons are usually low stats with average and sometimes just flat out bad perks) And this whole discussion doesn't even get into the value of loot. A looter shooter should have cool loot, and I'm sorry, but the reskinning has gotten way way worse than it has been in a long time. Its genuinely worse than D2Y1 at the moment. New loot should feel new, I want new models, new reload animations, new SFX. When I don't get these things with my loot, I get incredibly bored, my motivation to obtain them is near non-existent. An example of this is Splicer, even though the weapons were extremely average, they were just flat out cool! I wanted their god rolls simply based on the fact that they were unique and fresh to use. If Bungie somehow can't create new models anymore, at least make cool "redesigns" of them like the haunted weapons, which despite using old models as their base of its design, it completely redid their aesthetic, and the weapons had really awesome animations, VFX and SFX I could get into the whole "reprisals" situation as well, and how the stuff they choose to reprise is very questionable. An example being Iron Banner, why reprise Jorum's Claw, a boring run of the mill Suros Pulse but not Claws of the Wolf, a borderline iconic and unique Pulse from back in the day? Same goes for stuff like The Guiding Sight, which has been reprised TWICE whilst stuff like Breath of the Dragon is just floating around in sunset limbo. Sorry about the huge wall of text, but I just want this game to be enticing again, I'm sick of logging on to stare at the destination screen for a few minutes, then logging off wondering why I even started the game up.

[@resentfusion5634]

What sucks even more is that the glimmer you do get is only a fraction of the cost of gear or engrams, or even crafting. It’s such a weird feeling when you want to get gear to use in an activity but the process to get it is a complete slog. Like I want to get a specific roll of the new vanguard void auto, but rng says better luck next strike.

[@RetroMenace]

The average random drop weapon (not counting playlist weapons) has 6 perks in the 3rd column, and 6 perks in the 4th. Usually when you're chasing a weapon roll, there's one specific perk you aim for in the 4th column, and then 2 - maybe 3 - perks that synergize with it in the 3rd column. Meaning, ignoring barrels/mags/masterworks, the chance of getting a "good enough" roll for any given weapon like this is around 1/18. How many of us are, honestly, going to even get 18 drops of a SINGLE iron banner weapon in the season unless we no-life it and only focus that one weapon? Are you even going to get half as many world drops? And that's just for a "good enough roll" - the 4th column perk you wanted with a 3rd column perk that synergizes. If you want the EXACT combo you want, the exact barrel, mag, 3rd column, 4th column, and masterwork ... the chances are abysmal. For Iron Banner weapons specifically, getting the EXACT Point of the Stag roll you want is a 1/1890 chance. The EXACT Guiding Sight roll is 1/2592. (And if you want the EXACT Unending Tempest while you're at it, that's a 1/9072 chance!) Ideally, it should be easy for people to get a "good enough" roll. Then you can reliably get a great roll with a little grinding. Lastly, the exact 5/5 god roll is a statistical anomaly that gives people who WANT to no-life the game a perpetual goal that they can work towards. Everyone has a point where they can go "okay, I grinded for as long as I'm comfortable, got the gun, and now I can do other things." Loot is just so stingy at this point, and crafted weapons are perfect 5/5 god rolls every time, that I can see why a lot of players look at stuff like "go play 3 matches of iron banner to get 1 engram to go back to the tower and focus it for a 1/18 chance for a good enough roll, and a 1/1890 chance for the exact roll you want" and decide they'll just stick to crafted weapons only and whatever random stuff just so happens to land in their inventory with good rolls. Tbh, a legendary weapon should drop at the end of every activity, no exceptions. It's a looter shooter, after all. Where's the loot? And then things like keys, prosperity mods, match performance, etc give you EXTRA drops on top of the guaranteed one.

[@markshmellomd1370]

Nonono they can't do that. Then u wouldn't have to participate in the skinners box which the entire game is designed around!

[@MavicAVF]

Not just your personal thoughts man, you just spoke my mind

[@DuckButter81]

The further we go down this Destiny rabbit hole, the more boring this game is becoming. The seasons are an absolute snooze fest anymore, and the loot in this game is getting so stale, and feels way too samey.

[@ZomHunterX]

Ive been seeing videos like this going around quite a bit. It has come to my attention that this is less noticeable for a majority of players cause of how much gear we already have. For the most part, destiny players per season and expansion. Just grind loot for infusion and very rarely I find myself going into a fresh season or expansion immediately looking for new loot, but rather getting through the content and hitting the level sufficient enough to do all content. This more so hurts newer players, considering the fact that newer players dont have 400 piece of gear sitting in their vault with 3 characters set to go. Imagine being a new light repeatedly doing playlist activities and getting little to nothing out of it.

[@Zukiedo]

Not sure about Neomuna, but high value targets on the throne world do drop throne world weapons, as do the heroic (gold) patrol missions there. They're just not worth doing after you unlock the patterns.

[@SpaceElvisInc]

I think I got one from Neomuna today actually

[@flusteredweasel7483]

This is when i wish you had a bigger social pull. Idk if Bungie sees your content, but damn i hope they do

[@kylepowers-f7q]

Back at the start of D2 we had few weapons with stock perks it was boring. This current setup with abundance of weapons with abundance of perk combos doesn't sit right either.

[@Ysl489]

Completely agree with the loot part. Iron banner should drop more focusable engrams like shaxx engrams currently + 1 weapon or armor piece should be guaranteed after completing a match (same for strikes) also I very much like the idea of world drops being rewarded from patrol stuff on the planets that don’t have their own loot anymore (edz, cosmodrone, Nessus, (moon, dreaming city)) I don’t know how I personally feel about removing sbmm completely. Like we can see with the current relic game mode, that higher skilled players are completely railing lower skilled players. Like I myself enjoy that gamemode, I just don’t know how much casual players would enjoy that. Some form of sbmm isn’t a bad thing.

[@gentlemanscarecrow5987]

Guaranteed weapon and armor drops should be standard across the board in every activity. Such a good take. Getting a bad roll feels waaay better than getting nothing. Destiny 2's PVP is the sole reason I've stuck with the game. I grind all other activities to get good rolls for PVP. Occasionally PVE can be nearly as fun with the right difficulty tuning, but it so rarely hits that mark. It's always too easy or too hard. If the activities Bungie wants me to grind were akin to Witch Queen and Lightfall campaign difficulties, I'd be playing those activities for fun, not just for the rewards.

[@pooPbutwhole]

Mind boggling how you have to make a video about this in the first place.. couldn’t agree more! Thanks

[@DirtaDawg420]

A couple seasons ago it felt like a Trust or another Gambit weapon were dropping every game. These past two seasons feel like a lot less are dropping. IB this season really is a slog.

[@nicholasbaker2904]

If its not worth my time im not playing.... what i say about lfg raids taking 4 hrs for a .01% chance at an exotic.

[@jasq8498]

I used to run Dares at least a couple times during weeks that had past seasons' guns I was interested in. Now the loot pools are so bloated that it isn't worth it anymore. A lot more Crucible guns used to drop which was nice as the other playlists were as stingy as they are now. Not anymore. I just focused a bunch of Iron Banner engrams using around 400 000 glimmer and got some decent-ish results but not quite what I was looking for. I didn't end up buying the season this time around and noticed that I'm earning a lot less glimmer because the season pass contains glimmer boosters. If I didn't have a ton of old planetary resources left to convert into glimmer I'd be screwed. Thankfully the exotic mission rotation was added. The missions will still get repetitive but at least they can be target farmed and bring back some loot I had missed. I really wish they add more targeted loot methods like that. I'd also like to see the reputation levels of vendors evened out so there wouldn't be an engram drought once you got to higher ranks. It's demoralizing to see the progress slow down to a crawl.

[@w0wdonger896]

Frankly im a fan of fortress, its an objective-heavy mode and i started doing better and enjoying it more when i understood that, just wish the weapon drops happend more often...

[@SilentSigns]

I think the issue is a bit more existential than that, Destiny's loot economy is just paper thin. There are three slots on our character sheet that we actively care about and we don't have any meaningful ways to modify or spend currencies to improve those slots. We also get so few meaningful chases season-to-season that aren't directly connected to power progression - it's almost all either season pass or some cosmetics that we get incidentally while weapon grinding (eg. trials flawless ships, dungeon/raid armour sets). If the weapons weren't the ONLY thing we could chase then the times where the chase is grindy aren't going to be as crippling to the game as it feels right now.

[@unholyarthur1]

The MINIMUM reward for playlists should include at least 1 weapon and 1 engram. We should have the ability to use engrams as a form of currency. For instance, selecting a masterwork + barrel + magazine + and 2 traits could cost around 50 engrams. I will play more D2 this way instead of logging in for just weekly story and some red borders then never touching the game again for a whole week.

[@RurouniKalainGaming]

1:00 It makes sense canonically. At times, you need to hold a point and that's more important than killing the enemy because say, need to evacuate civilians to a safety zone and you know, Guardians have infinite lives long as ghost isn't taken out. That said, I do enjoy Fortress. Nice different game mode, know what to expect, nice change to have at times.

[@Sylv925]

I have a massive issue with sbmm, since I play a lot of control with friends my combat rating is super high and close to the point of a lot of streamers even though my actual skill level isn't even close. Why tf am I getting punished for playing often even though my skill isn't actually improving? Also why is it that in the comp playlist the matchmaking goes off of combat rating instead of actual rank? It's so demoralizing to do my placement matches and within three games I'm already matching ascendant players or people just playing at a skill level that I can't learn from.

[@Diehardgamer2001]

And then an infinite material exploit crops up, and vastly inflates the general player material economy, and bungie has to expense creep the mechanics they add to keep the player economy from becoming trivial. This is why focusing for certain weapons ends up costing so much materials, the crafted weapon force leveling mechanic they added was also added as an enhancement core sink. And if you miss taking advantage of those material exploits when they crop up then you only suffer cause the inflation problem got worse and you made no profit from it.

[@jericohellsangel594]

I like IB being objectives only because if kills matters as much as they do in regular gamemodes, they just blend together into being "just kill more then the others and ignore the objective". It´s boring to play the same gamemode with just different names. Forcing players to engage with the mechanics of a gamemode makes it more interesting. If it takes to long, then we could just reduce the point amount needed max to win and see how it goes. However i do agree that it´s annoying on how to get loot. I really wanted to get the Jörums claw pulse with the perk combo of gutshot and headseeker since this is literaly the only weapon that can roll with it to see how it feels and how it preforms. Having a weapon that does a permanent 10% damage bonus as an adeptive which means it has the potential to constantly 2 burst sounds baller af but after resetting IB 3 times in 1 week and using ALL of the engrams in focusing this 1 weapon and i did not get it even once. I needed to use 1mil glimmer for that to get the only unique thing about this that has potential to be fun and sleeper good. So yeah, i agree that it´s annoying to get those weapons or rather not get them however i just wanted to protest the idea that IB is bad just because you cannot influence the match purely by braindead killing.

[@Th4tOn36uy]

Honestly why i dont like ranking up Vanguard and just ignore it after i get the shader

[@therecklessengineer5796]

It felt like I was at work over the IB weekend, I won’t play destiny for a couple weeks now as I’m sick of it - and I was lucky enough to get two 4/4.5 /5 rolls on stag that I wanted

[@augstradus]

I must say I also enjoyed Dares very much for the fun concept

[@UltraStrawberryDreamsMonster]

is it weird that I saw that point of the stag could get swash and instantly thought "Hey hynra is gonna make a video about this"

[@nelsongodoy5101]

What are you looking for on point of the stag? I've got a shot swap + swash with lowest draw time which is a blast with your hunter bow build

[@twentypandora96]

Destiny for me right now has been very boring and not fun at all whatsoever to the point where ive had to leave my clan after realizing that being in one in general isnt worth it at all. New season? No thanks. New raid? No thanks! New expansion? No thanks!! To me it feels like your basically being punished for playing Destiny 2, and im done for the time being.

[@robmarney]

None of these changes would impact my experience, because I auto-delete all core playlist and world drop loot anyway. Raids and dungeons already have guaranteed drops, and raid gear can be focused and crafted.

[@cameronsalmon1314]

And why am I getting crucible loot in IB? Anyone who plays the crucible, even casually, probably has DOZENS of crucible engrams with shaxx. Which actually comes to my second issue, why are there little to rep and loot when playing the vanguard playlist? I could play an hour of control matches and Vanguard strikes and I would get nearly double the loot in the crucible.

[@Manstrual]

Ive been pulling hudreds of thousands of unclaimed glimmer from previous season passes

[@tompramanaaccount8892]

In my opinion Battleground is the worst addition to the game when they first included in the Strike playlist. Some of it are fun indeed, but most of the time it takes so much time to complete, especially the hacking part. If they can make Battleground specific loot to drop; like for example Season of the Risen armor and weapons to drop (with a chance to get the red border of it) from Psi-Ops Battleground etc. that would be cool to eliminate FOMO just like what they did to Exotic Mission rotator (I wish Presage drop normal Season of Haunted weapon or armor after the red border is complete rather than random world drop loot).

[@notasweatlord]

Made me realise how little loot there is in Destiny outside of endgame

[@burna.k.a.turtleonalog4327]

Since they added airborne ineffectiveness, I have been playing destiny way less and playing movement shooters and fromsoft games way more. Rhulk is really the only reason I occasionally play raids now, just because his fight is actually fun and not a stand-in-a-well-and-shoot-the-wall-boss encounter that you’re forced to use gjallerhorn on

[@crah3432]

Sincerely hope that this video blows up so someone at bungie sees it. Algorithm boost

[@maggie937]

The grind for green orbs for the nechrochasm catalyst caused me to quit playing

[@nickcamper592]

100% what needs to happen is those deeper avenues to specific weapons through activities.

[@howdoyouevenknow6526]

A perfect example of this is the new ritual armor barely even exists bc of the low drop chance did strikes almost all day never saw one drop

[@vanic8129]

Great video ! ❤

[@fightinglionenjoyer4503]

Fortress is maybe the worst game mode I’ve ever played. If your team is bad you cannot win but you are still stuck playing for like twice as long as a control match

[@Fenyxclips]

The enjoyment of playing anything just for a handful of glimmer. Glimmer not needed due to always being maxed. Rather play Iron Banner FOR Iron Banner weapons and not the Crucible weapons. I'm not in there for the seasonal weapon. I'm there to guild Iron Lord. I'm not there for glimmer. I'm there for LOOT. Weapons! Armour even! Gets to a point where older players are just stacked on glimmer and doesn't feel like anything worth doing an activity for.

[@skyeline9228]

Good points, hopefully the PvP strike team sees this vid

[@judgementkazzy7172]

"Strikes have the same outcome you always defeat the boss at the end" you under estimate the sheer cluelessness of some blueberries ive gotten as teammates.

[@brutejustice8593]

Yeah i pretty much dont farm pvp or strikes anymore when i shoot stuff in this game. I just go to lost sectors if i wanna shoot stuff

[@miksershow4094]

Nothing like running a dungeon 70+ and getting mostly armor instead of the gun you fucking want

[@CrushableDread]

I REALLY want them to massively increase the amount of glimmer we earn. It’s fine if they reduce the amount of different materials in the game but if everything costs thousands of glimmer then I need more than just Public Events to give me a decent amount.

[@GreatDeamon]

Great vid. Well said !!