Why did Dua Lip FLOP? (or did she...)

[@trapdoorco]

Much prefer the episodes as one long video as opposed to split up

[@acutierolls]

Especially as they're now split across days!! Hate that!!

[@daze-y]

Hard agreeeee

[@tallispinho]

saaaaaame!

[@撓]

They can do it with split episodes across the weekdays and full-length version at the weekend. Audiences deserve an alternative option.

[@Culhanetube]

Agreed

[@Isabelledttt]

I’m pretty sure its the disconnect with aesthetics (blues and ocean and beachy vibes of the album cover) and then her music videos (grays and reds and blacks) and the music (shes saying that its psychedelic dark etc) and ended up sounding like B side of future nostalgia. whole promotion of it - its whack

[@nkb420]

I think her music and her persona is PERFECT for a millenial crowd. We like this stuff even if yall find it boring. Its danceable, its fun, its positive, shes gorgeous and seems like a sweetheart. Thats really all I need from a pop star.

[@MattZ653]

I agree 100 percent. Every time I hear her sound, I think of partying or being in a club. It's that catchy beat that gets me every time.

[@winterkeptuswarm]

Yes!! True nostalgia for the 2010s era hits. ❤❤ I miss the optimistic dance-y pop era. Bring back happy dancing in platform heels!! 😊

[@Mario_N64]

Still the album flopped.

[@ST-qn7te]

As a millennial, I completely disagree. She's just manufactured cookie cutter nonsense. I follow real artists who are their music. She's onky popular because of connections & advertising overhyping her.

[@GoGetYourShinebox]

Nah her new album is bland and generic… is that what millennials like? Just simple songs that sorta make you dance? No real substance?

[@Jasmine-tr1zs]

Honestly I find all the “meta narrative” stuff exhausting since literally everyone is trying to have that now. I don’t actually always need a story to be told. I don’t like this album as much as future nostalgia but its still a good,fun,summer pop album! Dua has a lane and I like it. I like that I don’t really know anything about her life and can have a good time and not think lmao. There are plenty of other pop girls to tune into who DO do that well and I think that is why Dua is one of one,that and her unique tone (I agree that its a trademark voice)among the current pop girls~

[@conorfurlong]

The problem with the album is: it’s bland. It’s not bad. It’s not great. And it’s not memorable in any way. Once you’ve heard it, you’ll have forgotten it within 5 minutes. It sounds like a bunch of songs Madonna would have rejected when making an album 20 years ago. That being said, it’s much better than anything Taylor Swift has put out since 1989. (That wouldn’t be hard, I know.)

[@jellytwins1018]

Tbf Taylor still has quite a few memorable songs after 1989

[@davidmiranda4745]

She wasn't heavily marketed this time around because of her stands against the ongoing genocide... We all know the industry and it's stance and OF COURSE, we know the stance of the new york times....

[@dss5742]

Bullseye!!

[@airyanawaejah2323]

AWar on the other side of the world has nothing to do with a random singer. They marketed heavily on tik tok and not other places, and nobody takes tik tok music seriously

[@davidmiranda4745]

@@airyanawaejah2323 Believe her when she says it. Period. And believe the new york times when they say racist shit too

[@dss5742]

@@airyanawaejah2323 obviously you have not seen the full page political ad against her in NYT a few years ago.. and if the genocide has nothing to do with her, why is an Israeli pseudo-rap duo calling for her death? 🙄

[@mariacaballeroamador4112]

"French exit" or, in French "Filer à l'anglaise" (also explicitly mentioned by Dua in her song), means "Irish goodbye" or "Irish exit", that is a departure from a location or event without informing others or without seeking approval.

[@Mario_N64]

@@mariacaballeroamador4112 sounds like a euphemism for anal.

[@mariacaballeroamador4112]

By the way, although I know I run the risk of being seen as a weirdo, I love ‘Radical Optimism’ and I like it even MORE than ‘Future Nostalgia’. I guess I won't have many supporters, but hey, that's my opinion!

[@prodbymrsl]

same buddy! the album is a grower and a timeless classic. it will not sound outdated in 20-30 years. but ppl don't appreciate those things nowadays...

[@GoGetYourShinebox]

Different tastes I guess. But you guys fall in the minority

[@lovewitch5032]

As a music fan in general, living in an era where memeability dictates success is kind of soul-sucking. Some of the most popular music out right now are real head-scratchers for me. Whatever the case, people should prioritize listening to what they enjoy and disregard the noise. I’ve had to disengage with most online fan culture because they've turned music into a charts battle instead of focusing on the art. 5:56

[@GoGetYourShinebox]

Everything seems to have become a popularity contest these days. It’s popularity/ likeability over talent in the modern era

[@matt00794]

I find her to be similar to Katy Perry, catchy fun pop songs with no person behind them. It doesn't feel like she is making songs about herself and her life but just highly general music. On top of the meta narrative aspect you talked about I think like a Charlie Puth the issue is there isn't a dedicated fan base around her that talks about the music in that way. That in contrast to if i remember correctly this came out around the kendick vs drake weekend or right after and pretty much all music discourse was about that.

[@GoGetYourShinebox]

Basically an industry puppet

[@ulemumpaso7175]

I think dua should focus on her upper range or even vocal dexterity in a world where everyone sings in cursive

[@realityscoop]

Album rollout was MESSY. Did a deep dive on my channel about how the album came and WENT!

[@MS-di1rw]

Dua having her Lorde moment. A huge comeback is still very possible

[@francescaari8298]

I feel like this are the type of things dua would listen to and turn into gold. like that one time someone was like "come on girl give us nothing" and she went on to show the world she was a real show girl. if she listens to this she might come back and give us a badass album (not that I don't think this is a badass album), but she cares.

[@winterkeptuswarm]

I love Dua ❤ she's iconic and I love her new album!

[@coparo91]

Coscarelli sneakily calling Gavrais handsome knowing they look like brothers

[@sanayachandar1274]

Posh Spice? The star whose fame began in music, but her celebrity is predicated on something else entirely? Also someone else who's known for her taste.

[@SADDESTNIGHTOUT]

Nailed it. This is the best answer.

[@OGdaVIRGO]

16:28 as much as I love Houdini, not even that song can replace physical by Dua Lipa to me. Physical by Dua Lipa is literally like a perfect pop song!

[@braaogs6]

maybe my take on this is brutal, but honestly i think that dua lacks passion for what she does + she seems to be completely unaware of where the culture is heading to (her take on tame impala kind of gives it away). in the hollywood reporter round table of songwriters last year she litteraly seemed to let out a freudian slip when she said "i don't like singing"......... although she has a great voice, sure. ppl say that there are three types of pop stars rn (based on what they're mostly known for): the songwriters (billie, olivia, taylor), the performers (bey) and the vocalists (ariana). i couldn't fit dua in any of these categories to be honest. but she could become an amazing vocalist if she stops trying to be the pop girl performer

[@amyreadsetc]

I agree - she feels like a shiny finished product of the industry rather than giving it any sort of personality. But I feel like she deeply craves cultural relevance and to be taken seriously, hence her constant poise and her pursuits I.e. the dua lipa book club she tried to spearhead. Her Tame Impala take represents, to me, her desire to be on the right side of culture or what is perceived to be “cool”, but she always seems a couple years too late. I can imagine she will want to work with A G Cook in like three years time, after everyone else has already noted him as a tastemaker.

[@Brooks430]

You can’t put Rihanna in any of these categories either, but she exuded an interesting personality and realness in her songs and celeb persona. Dua doesn’t.

[@HugoLCervantes]

espresso is a katy perry song.....dua isnt funny like that -- shes glam!

[@SteMail926]

Big Thief catching a stray in a Dua Lipa podcast Is wild. Leave lenker alone😭

[@moodybitchtm]

I truly was not prepared for that very random stray 😭. Like whoa ntm!

[@daze-y]

Ive been binging your episodes your dynamic is so entertaining hope this podcast becomes bigger and bigger bc the thoughtful but also grounded and entertaining takes are so so refreshing ❤❤❤

[@amekaoua6006]

I liked radical optimism so much it's a good one 🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴

[@alwaysdreamin5085]

I think Dua succeeded last time because she took the formula that was working for her with first album but maximized it. She helped usher in the era of dance/disco inspired pop songs back into mainstream with her singles but she did it along side visuals that were cohesive, captivating and matched the sound of her music. She also improved massively in terms of the quality of her peformances and it helped win people over. This era is all over the place. It’s like a continuation of Future Nostalgia but much more watered down. I think the mark of a true main pop girl is understanding where to take your sound next but still giving the people what they want. Dua hasn’t shifted her sound in any real way this era. There’s no new look, or concept, or inspiration. It’s just more of the same thing she’s been doing for almot 5 years now. That’s half a decade. The truth is, while she’s a competent pop star she isnt that interesting. What made her interesting before was her hunger to be taken seriously as a main pop girl / visual artist/ and performer. Now that she’s reached a creative plateau and there isn’t anything for the fans to sink their teeth into.

[@discomillenium8850]

1- You guys just don’t like Dua so this convo is dumb 2- So sad that the music industry is so hyper fixed on stupid exterior elements, that when a classy mature pop star like Dua comes around people trash her because she’s not “messier” 3- I think she should focus on the european market because this shows that Americans were never intended to be her primary audience

[@ST-qn7te]

She's overrated. There are better actual artists out there.

[@GoGetYourShinebox]

You mistake criticism for hate. Maybe because you dislike criticism

[@osenifabua1912]

Jon loves him some Dua Lipa slander😭😭

[@ST-qn7te]

Or you just buy into overhype like a good little monkey.

[@captainnemonic]

Such a weird analysis. Saying there's nothing to grab ahold of is something I can't grab ahold of. The whole meta narrative narrative that you're spinning is a strange projection of expectation. What's wrong with enjoying an album for its own musical merit? Interestingly, you both admit it's a good album. It's her Zeppelin III.

[@ST-qn7te]

She doesn't have musical merit. You just buy into what those around her manufactured. You're an easy mark.

[@captainnemonic]

@@ST-qn7te Lol, you're right.I'm just a sucker. Either way, haters gotta hate because they don't have the cojones to create.

[@GoGetYourShinebox]

Criticism is only hate to those who can’t handle/ accept the criticism

[@GoGetYourShinebox]

The album would have been less criticised if it didn’t take 4 years to make. If it was a second album in a year then it would probably be praised

[@ulemumpaso7175]

My gosh Jon I need a whole podcast on your tame impala/kevin parker thoughts

[@Alexis__Jaime]

I think the issue with Dua is that these songs dont seem to show off her voice or show emotion. Her debut album is still on repeat for me because it was feel good pop that I want to scream sing in the shower. I think she had a lot to compete with timeline wise as well. So many pop heavy weights released in the past 6 months that are stronger. I think if she planned her release, maybe the songs that are good could have stood out. I personally am still digesting Bey, Ari and now Billie. Out of all the releases the ones I personally vibe with are the ones that make me want to put it on. For me thats the back half of Cowboy Carter and all of Billie's album. I agree she needs something to make people want to talk about her. I know its played out but the Drake/Kendrick beef made people excited and had everyone talking. Sabrina ans Chappel are everywhere touring and opening for really big artists with really big fanbases. They also have distinct personalities that aren't just hot fashion girl. Side note: is Dua Lipa the Zendaya of the pop girls? Would this be Zendaya's music career if she continued?

[@swollenrabbit4408]

absolutely love the zendaya take

[@LLuke.]

Dua Lipa is the Dua Lipa of 2024

[@PeterZeeke]

whats their point?

[@KYLETISZAI]

Thank youuu srsly like what?

[@MrCjohnson2012]

It's 9/15/2024 ... and unfortunately it did not age well. I love Dua Lipa music. However radio did give up, everybody gave up. :(

[@DSQueenie]

I find your hate for Dua Lipa to be quite hilarious. I’m not even that big of fan of her, but I almost feel like I want to defend her because you’ve made casual jokes against her in pretty much every video I’ve watched of yours. Anyway, different strokes for different folks I guess! I for one am waiting for the return of Janet Jackson.

[@winterkeptuswarm]

I agree with you! People hate things for no reason, it's kinda lame.

[@jamesavery3727]

This is one of your best episodes yet. Always enjoy a discussion on pop mediocrity, changing public tastes in pop music, and the failure to reach escape velocity from upper-middle class pop stardom into the upper class.

[@moodybitchtm]

The issue is also that we’re having a dance music renaissance & we are pretty solidly in that & that makes Radical Optimism just kinda get lost. There’s been a lot of great dance music out from the euro pop girls. She is not leading the pack in that

[@MelLanzieri]

We don’t know anything about her personal life or her personality

[@hannaschygulla8357]

3:39 I hope we don't have to wait for the Tame Impala episode to hear you guys comment on Dua's Glastonbury VIP guest lmao

[@ohmisterunicorn]

Hot take: Future Nostalgia wasn‘t that great either. The singles were incredible (justice for „Hallucinate“) but compared to the Jessie Ware or the Róisín Murphy albums that came out the same year, it was a pretty basic disco-infused record. I never really understood the hype.

[@readysetmoses]

Future Nostalgia is pop perfection IMO

[@DSQueenie]

Same. I think Lips’s aesthetics (read: she hot) were the deciding factor. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing but it is *a* thing.

[@ulemumpaso7175]

poor dula peep

[@launchini100]

Oh no , she is very rich

[@alotofmore]

DUA LIPA DOES NOT FLOP

[@GoGetYourShinebox]

Her album didn’t last a week in the top 10. That’s a flop especially for a highly anticipated album that was 4 years in the making

[@GabrielRafaelgr]

My guess for next weeks guest…Sabrina…because that snack would go perfect with a nice Italian ESPRESSO ☕️

[@leafygreensla]

I feel like the words rhyme yet have no real meaning. I watched the episode of Song Exploder featuring her writing team for Future Nostalgia (Love Again). I keep wondering where that writer went...

[@PureSparkles22]

she doesn't have the charisma to be a mega star like taylor, ariana or beyonce

[@daze-y]

Imo what holds this album back is that her shtick got boring a lil bit but also the songs are not on future nostalgia level

[@MarvinBradford323]

I knew it was coming she was supposed to mix it up and she didn't she's trying to have a career like Michael Jackson do the same thing over and over again it's not going to work different times different crowd people are way more picky now and they get bored easily

[@vp4744]

Dua hasn't flopped. She's hit a limit that's no fault of hers. Artists who come from mixed cultural backgrounds often slide into this limit as they tap out their original novelty. Dua's got all the talent, skills, and techniques. What's missing is that aesthetic feeling or depth. Billie Eilish, for example, can hit with just the right phrase. Yet Dua can have very successful world tours for the rest of her life dancing her style of pop on concert stages all across the globe.

[@dreamsbylauren]

Glad I’m not the only one that wasn’t a big fan of this album ◠̈

[@jamshedmurtazaev3303]

She didn't flop radical optimism is her best album yet

[@rickastley5773]

Anyone miss 2021 prime Dua Lipa😢👇

[@FakeAccount-gb8ny]

Comment for the algorithm

[@savagestation5653]

Red top is such an hater omg 😭😭😭.

[@jhcansler]

Two words that can save Dua Lipa’s career: Cobra Starship. That is all.

[@gialavendel8020]

dua should lean into the selena gomez strategy and collab with up n comers or viral artists / be a featured artist

[@lukem5289kp]

Can you do a Katy Perry episode?

[@readysetmoses]

K- Dot

[@westworlds]

Did you hear the mob ties reference track? I was always team kendrick but damn. Bro needs to stop worrying about rushing back and get the snakes out the camp. Out of all the tracks to have a reference leak that's a real unfortunate one.

[@tweetyericsson]

Not everything has to be a meme. Her new stuff is just not good enough.

[@becauseisaidso92]

What's wrong with her voice as a kid???!!!😢😢😢😢

[@keithk2879]

The album is good but it’s not cohesive like FN.

[@hannaschygulla8357]

Not bumped anymore!

[@13dma1rz]

I think she has a beautiful voice but the songs she chooses don't necessarily let it shine. Kind of Mariah Carey like.

[@colecooper5589]

is dua just going to become the asap of the 2020s?

[@davidmiranda4745]

🍉🍉

[@invincible125]

I think the reason this album has tanked is because it's too generic, the songs feel like there were written by AI... There is no ingenuity, no story arc. I'm sure Dua will dust herself off and achieve success again, though.

[@pretty9083]

No wonder the New York Times sucked and cont to. These guys have the stalest taste

[@PureSparkles22]

New rules is an awful song

[@gialavendel8020]

dont really know where to put this comment, but i hope the viral Drum n Bass track by that group of Irish 11/12 year olds gets a shout out in the next songs of the week. the kids seems to be alright after all > > kzbin.info/www/bejne/pIeZpoWcqaZgnq8si=-HxBNHuMkjLq1M1E