Why do game devs ignore players?

Рет қаралды 73,664

AIA

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 200

@AIAdev 5 ай бұрын

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@NOT_A_ROBOT 5 ай бұрын

hey uh could you finish the captions for this video? I find it kinda difficult to follow after the captions just straight up ended

@AIAdev 5 ай бұрын

@@NOT_A_ROBOT done

@Metaldude-th1rte3n 5 ай бұрын

The message is: you can give any feedback you want, just don’t commit a crime while doing it

@unironic1184 5 ай бұрын

I usually dox the devs

@DualWielded 5 ай бұрын

Personally I ignore player feedback because I recently bought the LEGO Star Wars UCS Imperial Star Destroyer (75252) and I have my priorities straight

@darkfox2401 5 ай бұрын

People use to have pride in there work. Imagine releasing poop and feeling like you have any value in this world.

@elmok 5 ай бұрын

Based

@Cool-Game-Dev 5 ай бұрын

You did a great job in the video! I hope you can work together more in the future!

@M1N0_exe 5 ай бұрын

I love you

@RemainingAxis565 5 ай бұрын

That's where indies and AAA differ indie devs are interacting with the audience more.

@eggcorpprod 5 ай бұрын

Except when they are team cherry

@b3agz 5 ай бұрын

"I almost try to, like, hate myself." ... same, Julian. Same.

@FlowStudio 5 ай бұрын

🤣🤣

@Sirlopsteropster 5 ай бұрын

thats true

@Artindi 5 ай бұрын

The biggest issue is when the developers accurately communicates their vision, which set's the players expectations, then change their mind and decide to not listen to players who do in fact understand what was originally promised.

@DecoyZ 5 ай бұрын

This is why people don't communicate Because humans change their minds and have better ideas and don't wanna be attacked for going in a different direction for their own project

@ultimaxkom8728 5 ай бұрын

Human propose God dispose

@docskiDev 5 ай бұрын

I currently have 1 player advocating for my game to be taken down because. Networking issue: "The admins of this game often kick me out of the game." Losing fights: "Game administrators also manipulate the attack and defense parameters of certain experienced players (They weaken them sercrelty.)" Lost match: "the bots on the high-scoring players' teams are set to may be very weak by the admin" The game has no bots, lol. Like, this guy really thinks I am manually looking at playerdata and scaling them maliciously. Worse thing is, you'd think he'd stop playing? But, nope! Plays daily and complains that I'm malicious. Lol. Sigh. Make games, they said.

@shawnaw2 5 ай бұрын

Taking what was said in this video, maybe that player is just a full on masochist. He complains but actually loves "torturing" himself. No other way to explain why he comes back playing when he actively "hates" the game right? Another way to see it is, you managed to make a hater continuing playing. You're definitely doing something right.

@docskiDev 5 ай бұрын

@@shawnaw2 Lol thats one way to look at it. Usually it doesnt bother me as I know they dont understand but this one guy is just plain coocoo

@sbqp3 5 ай бұрын

There are many reasons. One is that devs know about severe bugs that they also want to fix, but management prioritizes new features. Another one is that fixes are being worked on, but you can't tell the community because they'll start pressuring for when it's done and shame people if it takes too much time. Another one is that gamers just want to keep something OP or an exploit. Which you might try to discuss, but it will usually turn into a shit show. And also, if you communicate too much with the community, the community might hold you accountable for ideas you mentioned, saying that "you said you would do X" and get upset. It's to some extent the tragedy of the commons; once the community is big enough, you can't expect people to be nice or uphold some basic courtesy in dialogs. And at that point it's easier to seek feedback with more closed groups. Indie feedback is another thing entirely, you usually have a passionate, polite and engaged audience. Plus as an indie dev you're in more control of what happens in the project, so it's easier to promise or discuss approaches with the community, knowing that you don't have to run everything by a group of managers and designers after talking to the community.

@calebproductions1264 5 ай бұрын

“Passionate, polite, and engaged audience” naw there’s too many asshole indie shills that like to shit on people who enjoy actual good video games from back then instead of playing their favorite generic pixelated 2D platformers like shallow knight and JRPG ripoff’s like understale.

@cosmicspacething3474 5 ай бұрын

0:07 Wasn’t that game the exception though? I’m pretty sure they fixed almost everything

@shablam0 5 ай бұрын

You're right, but he specifically said "launched" in a bad state. He was talking about game-launches; not how the project fares later on. I think it's an important distinction because (generally) most of a game's profits are made when it launches and not later on, so a game being made well since the beginning is far more valuable to a company than taking the time to fix it up later on.

@Kellan03 5 ай бұрын

Launch - bad now - good

@SandwichGamesHeavy 5 ай бұрын

Yes, yes they did.

@Nothing-f8z 5 ай бұрын

People massively forgot negative emotion makes good emotions better, Creepers in Minecraft make the game so much better, i'm actually scared of them because they can ruin my base. when they first was released people hate them. If creepers wasn't in the game and they did a mob vote to add them, people wouldn't vote for them.

@ultimaxkom8728 5 ай бұрын

Good point

@remnai4615 5 ай бұрын

oh boy i sure do love making games, i'll just have someone playtest thi- the 30 glitches, 27 different valid points, and 172 known issues or irrelevant points that all look the exact same:

@Ankokudsura 5 ай бұрын

One point to add to discussion, I recently finished a prototype from a car game that I'm developing and gave to some friends to test it, Almost all the feedback I got was about the "arcadie" to semi-realistic control, that was my initial intent after all and from there I saw it the problem, which was how a "sold" the game to them, and kind messed up their expectations, and after I bit of introduction of the history and navigation they seems to enjoy a little bit more the game in general

@LordMalaspy 5 ай бұрын

5:25 I will forever be disturbed by these hands

@ruthz9515 5 ай бұрын

Make senses. I think the main reason people think this way is probably devs transparency. If devs communicate with the community more about what issues they acknowledged and trying to solve or how much effort it would take to solve said issues, I'm sure the community will appreciate that more. And that's why most indies communities are so lovely compare to the AAA counterparts since they're more open about their development. Less devs, less reasons to keep things secrets.

@THEGoMPG 5 ай бұрын

Classic AIA to kidnap Dual Wielded and use mind control.

@DualWielded 5 ай бұрын

Love it when that happens

@THEGoMPG 5 ай бұрын

@@DualWieldedFun times. blink twice if you need help

@justdrems6365 3 ай бұрын

It's not a bug, it's a feature!

@iheartfunnyboysgames 3 ай бұрын

What stands out to me most is that sometimes the deciders of whether a bug / flaw matters can be wrong. As an indie dev I am wrong about how my games will be received all the time, why can't someone responsible for a bigger scale game be wrong, too? Games can be endlessly improved, so the decision to stop developing has to be made at some point. Thank you for pulling back the veil on this topic and gathering together so many resources to create your argument.

@UODZU-P 5 ай бұрын

sounds AAA companies (execs not devs) miss-manage scope and don't correct it until its too late and consumers get hit with it.

@The-EJ-Factor 5 ай бұрын

Your video quality is getting really good 👍 I’d be happy to playtest your game if you want me to but I’m much better at discovering bugs than giving emotional feedback on games.

@MHE202 5 ай бұрын

Currently working on a cragle game, cuz... cragle.

@m4rt_ 5 ай бұрын

As I've heard someone mention once (I don't remember who, I think it may have been one of the react videos Corridor Crew have done, though it still applies to games), is that when someone complains that something feels wrong, that is usually correct, but when they try to explain why it is wrong, they are usually wrong. So when you get complaints, look into it, but don't trust that their explanation of why it is wrong is actually why it is wrong. You can see something similar with the Wolfenstein thing, the guns feel too powerful, but they weren't actually more powerful, the sound just made one of them sound more powerful, which lead to players being more aggressive and confident, which on paper made them more aggressive. You can also see in in TF2, the red team often wins more than the blue team, even though the only difference is the team color, because the red team usually is more aggressive and confident because of the red color.

@SandwichGamesHeavy 5 ай бұрын

Red team is also the one is shown in the trailers as "winners" so yeah, the mindset changes a bit.

@VyvyanTheGreat 5 ай бұрын

I was concerned from the video title this would be more entitled gamer fuel to the fire - but was very pleasantly wrong. Great video that actually takes the turbulent nature of game development into context. Thank you!!

@Skeffles 5 ай бұрын

Love this video. Brilliant to see all the different views. IMO one of the biggest problems are the uncomplete games on release. Of course players will test more than you ever will as soon as it's in their hands, but I rarely see devs talking about their test strategies. The only big studio I've seen talk about it is Rare. I think if more adapted good automation testing then at least games wouldn't fall apart as soon as they are released.

@kylevarlotta3615 5 ай бұрын

No one seems to be talking about Bethesda putting out crappy games on launch an never fixing them

@neilcognito 5 ай бұрын

I love developers. I wish i could just fill my bubble & circle with devs. I actually gave up on game development for this very reason. The divide between gamer's knowledge and the ways things actually work.

@Nufshi 5 ай бұрын

As a very small dev, This is some great insight on the whole situation.

@Furetto126 5 ай бұрын

IS THIS FUFSHI FROM FAMOUS GAME "NUFSHI"???

@TarkovTyrone 5 ай бұрын

Common Aia W. Another great video filled with good insight! The key is how devs process the feedback (and sorting through the valid thoughts and comments)

@Oreowich 5 ай бұрын

Indie games are just better in basically everyway Support indie devs as much as you can

@calebproductions1264 5 ай бұрын

Hell no, I never support indie slops that like to shoved themselves down people’s throats constantly.

@Uzknown 5 ай бұрын

Wasn't expecting to find a short to be in pants but here we are.

@Ruyeex 5 ай бұрын

This can be applied to any industry in general

@jimmyryan5880 5 ай бұрын

And a lot of the "critisim" is trolling.

@Godot-Bro 5 ай бұрын

Makes sense! Thanks for the behind the scenes look on this topic. I feel like I'll be able to take criticism well, but I guess we'll find out when that time comes! Regardless I won't let it stop me from making games!

@forbiddenbox 5 ай бұрын

I handle feedback one of 2 ways: 1. press the fix bugs button to fix bugs 2. delete my game if there's no game there's nothing to critique 👌🙏

@saturnargentavis1901 5 ай бұрын

I thought there would be a more deep dive into games like 76. 76 has bugs for over4-5 years now that are gamebreakers for ppl and they dont fix. Many are not anything major like the Guass rifle bug. The number 1 problem in 76 is bag space now that is something they can fix but refuse to and because they wont we gained many players during hte fallout tv show now we are loosing them in the thousands every week, for little things like bag space issues. A stupid way to run a company

@carolinelabbott2451 5 ай бұрын

Listening and watching to your videos is helping me to understand better family who is studying game development. I will never be able to get my head around computer language/scripts but at least I can have a better overall view of what they do. 😊

@TheUnsupported 5 ай бұрын

While it's true that the player isn't always right due to missing context, I see the disconnect happening when game developers have dependencies, like a publisher. Budget constraints and tight time frames often become the focus, which can make it feel like the game is no longer for the player but for the "investor". This is similar to what happens when a company goes public and becomes dependent on shareholders. Maybe it's just my perspective, but I feel that the smaller the studio, the stronger the connection with the players tends to be.

@SJrad 5 ай бұрын

Meanwhile us splatoon players feel like the devs are too slow at making balance changes. certain overtuned weapons or specials not getting toned back, or weaker weapons getting buffs in areas that don’t need buffs. this last balance patch was better but felt like it should have happened several months ago.

@alejolab 5 ай бұрын

Great video! Survivorship bias plays a big role in analyzing player feedback. Someone saying that the final boss sucks is mostly telling me that they were able to reach the final boss and enjoyed the rest of the game in comparison. But someone getting stuck and not saying anything can only be seen with analytics that are invisible to the public. Also expectations from AAA devs is higher than that from indies, which results in some studios hang on to their indie label as long as they can. And there is the narrative of the solo dev, which is also a way to play with audience expectations. Again, great video for both players and devs.

@Luther_the_Developer 5 ай бұрын

Transparency can be a scary thing. We should still opt to be as open as we can, but it can work kinda like a floodgate right? Very easy to open. And maybe you even find an optimal width to keep the gate open at. But for every inch you open the gate, the more difficult it becomes to close. Intuitively, I think it's hard to find too much transparency to ever be a bad thing. But often, with devs that are too open, too connected to their community, when their community feels slighted, for whatever reason that may be, the damage done is far larger. There's also a bigger perceived insult when developers don't instantly respond to feedback. I don't like to use the word "entitlement" but that *feeling* grows far larger in players when the transparency is crystal. And as we all know, that causes major issues that go down to the root of your relationship with your players. Once again, we SHOULD cultivate clear communications between devs and players. A community that doesn't understand the developers who make the game they love, is a community that is almost destined to develop either apathy or something adversarial. But when the players see too much behind the curtain, you end up in a panopticon situation. Or like you're dealing with an obsessive ex. And you can't just run away from it all and come back when you think you have a handle on things. Cautionary tales to always keep in your mind, Helldivers 2, Cube World, No Man's Sky, Halo Infinite, League of Legends. Each of these games have something valuable to teach you about transparency and how there's even different *kinds* of it. All have pluses and minuses, but this comment is already an essay and I have other things to do today. :)

@malimakes 5 ай бұрын

Really nice video! Thank you for sharing this!

@Railnof 5 ай бұрын

Its funny, this video is talking about problems and needs of comprehension that can be sold by my job. As a User Researcher, we can respond to many things tell in the video !

@lightbird27 5 ай бұрын

Simple, money. They are paid to make games, not to optimize them ... they do the bare minimum because they're wage slaves and forced to crunch as much as they can

@Cool-Game-Dev 5 ай бұрын

As an indie dev, this was a very interesting lens to look through, thanks for the advice!

@flamart9703 4 ай бұрын

Because they don't know what they want.

@sarahlynn7807 5 ай бұрын

That was a lot of words to say very little. Now take this feedback and do something with it.

@AIAdev 5 ай бұрын

@TheShelfman 5 ай бұрын

Fantastic video. Really nice way of explaining all this. Also that wolfenstein stuff made me laugh. Such an interesting fix

@Secretkpopsmurf 5 ай бұрын

10 Push-ups for each like on this comment.

@sansnyan982 5 ай бұрын

No you won't

@HotCrossB1S 5 ай бұрын

Fifty push-ups are a lot but I believe in you! 😗🫴❤️

@arxci9402 5 ай бұрын

You need to make up what you have now before I contribute more

@Zer0cip 5 ай бұрын

Gl when it passes 100 likes lol

@NigrumTigris 5 ай бұрын

My soldier push harder

@Furetto126 5 ай бұрын

As the angry review poster this video helped me be more successful with my insults

@AIAdev 5 ай бұрын

Oh no 😥

@CreativeOven 5 ай бұрын

Back in the 90s there were 100+ playable games, now there are none... OMG what is wrong people make video games that are installable and playable please!

@Lamb_clips456 5 ай бұрын

i thought i had escaped game dev youtube rabbit hole

@shadownight2248 5 ай бұрын

This was actually very insightful. Great video

@TheOnlyBlob 5 ай бұрын

No mans sky is the perfect example of a responsive studio ong

@claytonrumer204 3 ай бұрын

It is very dope that you worked on developing Slapshot Rebound. That game is the shit.

@shayes.x 5 ай бұрын

I'm a software dev with elementary experience in game dev, and on top of that I'm also a gamer, which puts me in a really strange situation. Sometimes I act on the emotions I feel from playing a game (or watching a video of said game) and then write a lengthy comment about what's wrong with the game and what I think would fix it. At the same time, I'll read comments or hear my friends say stuff about a game and suddenly find myself defending the devs because they frequently know better than the player. It is a strange duality to reflect on, and I wonder if other gamers turned software/game dev have this problem too!

@cedericprivat 5 ай бұрын

I‘m also a Software Dev with some minimal Game Dev experience and I totally feel the same way. It‘s always easier to judge software/games based on limited knowledge about how they actually work. But I still think communication is the key to avoid frustration on both sides 😊

@bewky 5 ай бұрын

dual wielded AAA op confirmed 🙀🫨😱

@zrizzy6958 5 ай бұрын

this video needs more views, please comment and sub

@JefftheGDPlayer 5 ай бұрын

This is a really well made video and I was about to say you need more subs but then I saw that you have 100k subs

@cocoakodawari4192 5 ай бұрын

YO LEN'S ISLAND MENTIONED???? All in all really informative, keep it up dude :0

@blockcraftman4life 5 ай бұрын

AIA hits hard ngl 🔥

@Cool-Game-Dev 5 ай бұрын

Ok but nms is now one of the best space games out there, best comeback ever

@3xistism1.0 5 ай бұрын

I can’t believe my fan art is in this 😂😂

@ToyotaCorolla-en2mv 5 ай бұрын

I think it boils down to capitalism and consumerism making players much more entitled. The way people give "feedback" sometimes makes it clear they dont see game devs as actual people, just as machines that are supposed to do what they want. I constantly see people blame the lower level devs who actually work on the game for issues that are almost always caused by the people in the company who prioritize money over everything. Or theyll crucify devs over minor inconsequential bugs. I remeber a year or so ago people were attacking Destiny 2 devs because a single wall in a random building in a limited time event activity had a placeholder texture still on it. Keep in mind, this building was not one where anything was happening in game. No enemies or objectives or anything else of interest in there. And people on twitter were genuinely mad and talking about how the devs dont care about the game and whatever other nonsense angry gamers say.

@davion_4623 5 ай бұрын

Im all for all feedback is valid, but something like "this game sux" or "this game good" is just incomplete feedback to me and doesn't really say anything about why the player feels thay way. I wish less players gave feedback like that

@Obunga-np5ic 5 ай бұрын

Helldivers devs need to see this

@SandwichGamesHeavy 5 ай бұрын

5:00 Hold on, is that Deep Rock Galactic ost? Rock and Stone!

@MDVYN 5 ай бұрын

I enjoyed this. I will now leave very detailed feedback about games I enjoy. Thank you for this information.

@AIAdev 5 ай бұрын

common mud W

@TinyLadyKris 5 ай бұрын

I find the question "why do devs ignore players" so... weird for some reason. like, what does that even mean?? it's such a vague and targeted question, though I know that's the point.

@Beets_Creations 5 ай бұрын

Great video as always!

@jingboss1234 5 ай бұрын

not all of them to be exact...

@mcRoody 5 ай бұрын

Very insightful 😀

@shalevforfor5550 5 ай бұрын

5:30 so sometimes skin is diffrent the better it feels to play with you just better with it almost all games that have skins have this thing that the just feel good the you play a bit better because of it

@luminousherbs 5 ай бұрын

why do the subtitles disappear at 5:32?

@AIAdev 5 ай бұрын

bruh. i've tried uploading them like 3 times. they look great, I hit save. then YT doesn't display them

@camillenaudin1967 5 ай бұрын

I feel like most of the time, when I am really mad at the company that makes the game, EA is involved lmao XD I'm a sims fan, and it's so sad to see this game becoming worse and worse because of a greedy company! I swear the franchise is gonna die off becayse no one wants to take this bullshit anymore, and inidie game devs are doing such a great job!

@Ashbobah07 5 ай бұрын

Great video Aia!

@EntoDucki 5 ай бұрын

Another AIA video makes the flies go bingo

@boslog Ай бұрын

Next question.. Vielguard.. why is gamedevs ignoring their old players and cater more to modern gamers/players when modern players are like the minority?

@Fredrick_Turner 5 ай бұрын

Loved the video! Amazing quality!

@repeekyraidcero 5 ай бұрын

Have you ever written a line of code ? ... See ?

@kumammaheshwarsingh5255 16 күн бұрын

The gamer demand to much they game are bad but you know things in creating game is not easy to complex anything can go wrong even right 😢

@roro.cathie 5 ай бұрын

Awesome video !!❤

@ShadowJazo 5 ай бұрын

Good Video, thats what KZbin needs

@theyolkstar3575 4 ай бұрын

Also dont worry aia, ill play test your game for free. After the 100 games or so ive played on this deployment im practically a "pro game understander player tester person"

@GaLzZy. 5 ай бұрын

Really kewl video, as i'm slowly becoming an indie game dev, players reviews scare me a lot since like you said, an attack on my game is a direct attack on me... But i'll for sure try hard to understand them and work on that part of myself :)

@Ineedaburrito 5 ай бұрын

Wake up AIA uploaded

@d4rksyndicate 2 ай бұрын

i dont get it, if a car company sold defected cars just because its a funding thing, would you feel safe having ur whole family in that car, even buy the damn thing to begin with, no? every game in todays standard has in some way or another a "gambling addiction" system coded, on top of that the whole marketing system is based on the same methods. its not just game comps and devs etc, its the whole human race that has gone to sh!it. You got money = you dont care. You do not have money = you coward some where. Ive been in the union for so long that i can see the people who actually fight these things on every level, are getting used and mentally graped to oblivion. People want the win but dont want to fight the fight... Yeah all this that we are talking about are only smoke, and people are arguing on smoke, when the actual fire is burning the root of the problem.

@joesmith5315 5 ай бұрын

is this the same aia that added controller to slapshot rebound

@AIAdev 5 ай бұрын

😅

@iguanobro9925 5 ай бұрын

i am a future gamedev, i won'y let you down guys!.

@TheOrangeMan13 5 ай бұрын

finally, a great aia video

@THERAVEN_productions 3 ай бұрын

i love anthem ngl

@saucyeu 5 ай бұрын

feels like it's only the indie devs that care lmao

@zackdasilva3195 5 ай бұрын

You are really saying that the slap shot rebound game was a game you took part of, that's crazy because it's a fun game to play with your friends but it's not that good of quality of a lot of stuff like the main menu and actually playing it and it's hard to understand but fun game live your videos.