Why do men struggle with Empathy: The problem of transactional relationships

[@Yendor1224]

"Why should I learn to feel empathy? That will just make me feel bad if people around be are feeling bad." The real words of my ex-fiance. Yeah, I should have left him at this point.

[@zacharybosley1935]

All to illustrate the playing field, no? That's the reality he was moving under, and there aren't a lot of ways out of it.

[@Nerobyrne]

You didn't? Why not?

[@MarioMario-vy4bi]

He’s right. The only reason he had to have empathy was your threat of leaving.

[@WhichDoctor1]

@@MarioMario-vy4bi It's honestly really quite lovely to be around people who are happy and gain from that. It comes with the pain of feeling other's pain. But also lets you understand them enough to help them bear that pain. Which also brings satisfaction and closeness. Trust me, i've done my fair share of not feeling things because i was scared of the painful feelings. And it was not a good way to live. And once i started opening myself up again to emotion there were a lot of painful things to feel, and facing them was scary and hard, and it hurt. But the hurt was temporary. Some lasted months, but it always faded eventually. On the other hand the emptiness and distance and loneliness i felt before, that was all the time, forever. And the closeness and comfort of being emotionally close to people in my life now is more than compensation for difficult times

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@WhichDoctor1 that sounds eerily similar to drug addiction boss.

[@KMJsec]

I once read an article by a female scientist who asked a group of boys to list the traits they hated and despised most about themselves and she was stunned to realize that the accumulated list soley consisted of traits society valued like empathy, crying, a need to help others, being good at cooking and cleaning and taking care of younger kids.

[@Gumbier_Than]

I try to tell my nephews, who complain that women are "too masculine", that femininity is not valued. They protest that it's false, but the traits that describe masculinity are valuable to them; yet in turn they would not want to be of them. "Hit like a girl", "cry like a woman", soft and sweet in reference to weakness. Is it any wonder many ladies have trouble valuing femininity or our traits when it's negatively associated as it is? 😢

[@hinamiravenroot7162]

It will take another 1 or 2 generations to uproot all the backwards ideas implanted into our great grandparents from the brains of the living. Men vs women will stop, I'm sure about it. This is just one final cross population tantrum before it fizzles out and we as a society can begin to heal and accept and respect our own traits, no matter if they are in the pink or blue box traditionally speaking.

[@cyborgninjamonkey]

​@@Gumbier_Thanperhaps a boogeyman story is in order. The tale of slowly becoming a machine, the mechanical parts so deeply rooted that by the time everyone else can only fear or pity them, they will have lost the ability to care.

[@jameswilkerson4412]

Remember where the article was?

[@KossolaxtheForesworn]

with my dad, every form of affection was always absolutely transactional and the bar was set HIGH. and somehow all of his kids have gone no contact. we got real tired of his bullshit.

[@MarioMario-vy4bi]

I guess it wasn’t a good deal

[@moongardenglow]

My mom said this about my dad. He only showed affection if he could have sex. Once he couldn't anymore then they lived as roommates.

[@DiAn-ud8dy]

😂same with this videos, bad people exist but somehow they're portrayed as vv1ctims

[@cateyu5547]

👏 they only give to get

[@rattgod]

@@moongardenglowewww I had a ex who was like this, he would beg or bargain me to have sex with him

[@theresafiore5922]

I (woman) grew up in up in a household where love was ONLY transactional. That was what I saw as love. You behave the way the other person wants and you get rewarded with what you want. My husband grew up in not necessarily “perfect” home, but one that was plentiful in unconditional love. I’ll never forget the day when my husband pointed out that I do things in a transactional manner. I was so confused, I didn’t see what was wrong with that, and I didn’t understand what he meant when he says he does things for me just because he wants to in service of love. He had to explain in a few times before it really sunk in, and changed my whole mindset. thank God for my husband who was raised and loved right.

[@kishdom282]

There's no such thing as "unconditional love". BTW, there's always more to ppl than what you see. A person is there MIND! Smith & Doe " what men don't want women to know".

[@mamadragonful]

​@@kishdom282I'm sorry your worldview doesn't include the concept of unconditional love. I suspect that "love" means something different in your worldview than mine. In mine, it does NOT mean service, accommodation, appeasement, or agreement.

[@kishdom282]

@mamadragonful I certainly didn't state what it's made of. You're entitled to your opinion. Again, there's NO such thing as "unconditional love" by universal law principles. Like everything in life,it has a structure and 99% of male cannot elevate pass the first level because of their biological NATURE and neurological wiring. I digress.

[@mamadragonful]

@@kishdom282 Yup, this is definitely a worldview gap. I think that's an inaccurate and deeply insulting view of men. But there's no practical way to have a meaningful conversation across a significant worldview gap on this platform. Those conversations are difficult enough in person! Hope your worldview works out well for you.

[@guineapig5858]

Unconditional love is ... Difficult Honestly to understand it there is evolution to be considered, and I will say there is an underlying motive for everything but I do think Unconditional love exists at a certain point Children I would say off the bat have Unconditional love for their parents. Biology made them gravitate towards that parent. And I would argue they aren't doing it out of safety or services because some parents refuse that and the baby still loves them. Actual romantic relationships there is a set of conditions as you have to make compromises but I think it varies Honestly, like either your love is majority conditional or Unconditional. Boundaries for example exhibit conditions or person is out, therefore not loved. However if they flop at work and you still don't see them any lesser I'd say that part is Unconditional. Because you don't gain anything especially if you already know you not caring your partner will still be self critical and perhaps in guilt try to sabotage the relationship intierly. Unconditional has a bad meaning as un means non and I'd agree all relationships have conditions Like I won't befriend an a hole as it will negatively impact me in some way.

[@mkay0630]

The transactional mindset that many men have explains why they go crazy when a woman turns down their advances. In their mind, it's all a game: you do "everything right," you get your prize. But women, and people at large, don't work like that. You can be the kindest, most thoughtful person and someone can still be uninterested in you. Humans come in a variety of flavors and subflavors, so naturally, you aren't going to attract every person you meet.

[@janerecluse4344]

But understanding that requires seeing women as individual human beings with their own needs and feelings, and let's be real: most men don't. The handful of women they even sort of "see" are Not Like Other Girls.

[@mkay0630]

@janerecluse4344 Oh I don't disagree with you! I think the fundamental problem with men that have toxic mindsets is they still refuse to see women as people. I think once they stop objectifying women, a lot of the disrespect falls apart, because there is no longer a basis for being disrespectful at that point.

[@lauraanderson8785]

That reminds me so much of a guy I knew in high school. He thought exactly like that. Senior year he developed a fixation on me and kept trying to convince me to date him. I kept telling him no. He then asked me to be his date to prom, which I refused, and he kept trying to pressure me and I kept refusing. Eventually after him guilt tripping me enough I agreed that he could tag along with the group of friends I was planning to spend prom with but that we would NOT be going together as a couple nor as friends. He then lied to his friends that I had agreed to be his date, tried to find out the colour of my dress so that he could surprise me at prom by matching the colour of his tie to the colour of my dress, told me that he had bought me a ticket to prom which I turned down, and the cherry on top was that a girl approached me to tell me that she had overheard him bragging about how he planned on sleeping with me on prom night. I completely freaked out and uninvited him from our group, and he then proceeded to stalk me around school. Followed me to each of my classes to see which classroom I'd be going into, then he'd be outside waiting when class ended so that he could follow me to my next class. The entire time causing a huge scene in front of people and trying to intimidate me into agreeing to his demands. Eventually other people stepped in at the end of the day and he proceeded to spam me on instagram about how I was a terrible person, how he had been such a gentleman towards me, how I was ungrateful, how he had spent money on my prom ticket (that I never asked for nor received) and how I needed to "pay him back", how he had "done everything right" and I still hadn't even given him a chance... It's terrifying how someone can be so entitled that they think that you can just pick out a random person and force your presence and "kindness" onto them, and regardless of their own free will they're now required to date you/sleep with you or else they're the ones in the wrong

[@mkay0630]

@lauraanderson8785 That is crazy, I am so sorry that happened to you!! I appreciate your courage in sharing your story. I hope nothing like that has happened since 😩

[@teresamagnusson]

​@@lauraanderson8785That is such a nutty story. Why are males like this?

[@leotardbanshee]

The actual reason why women have to file for divorce more frequently is because men just leave without doing the paperwork and leave women holding the bag to do the legal work. It's more weaponized incompetence and often done to punish the woman. Sincerely, I used to work in a family law office.

[@leotardbanshee]

Getting a divorce is typically expensive and awful and many men will go into hiding so the process server the woman has to hire can't find them. Seen it many many times.

[@Foghorn-tr1je]

My stepdad proposed to my Mom when he was still married. He was no longer with his ex when they were dating. It had been something like 3 years. He still didn’t do the paperwork. My Mom did it for him.

[@Poodle_Gun]

And they should get paid for that, and it comes out of his half.

[@tinahackney8111]

Plus the fact that they get to blame the woman. It's always about blame and shame with them. Natural consumers, manipulators, and gaslighters.

[@Inkpinkierosie]

​@@Foghorn-tr1jeyikes she shouldn't settle and wowaint no way I will be dating a man and he doesn't want to even divorce his ex-wife because it's too much I definitely will not be holding his hand I hope she leaves home but then again she settled for less unfortunately

[@maam-yj8ph]

At this point I just wish men could care about and care for other men, especially young boys.

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@maam-yj8ph for free?

[@veebliss1266]

They can’t benefit from It 😂 so why would they???? They are selfish and entitled honey!

[@peacefreedom4930]

This seems to suggest men will only care for other men and boys that benefit them directly.

[@florenomorence1492]

The younger generations are gentler and kinder. I have so much hope for the future!❤

[@moongardenglow]

Or if they are interested it's for another transactional reason

[@leafyveins4985]

I've dated men who were incredibly compassionate and loving. I've dated men that were heartless. The circumstances and parents were all different, but they all had one thing in common: they made a choice.

[@rosabscura]

This !!!

[@Wednesdaywoe1975]

This is important. Men are not born this way and they can change.

[@moongardenglow]

Choices... That pesky thing they keep trying to take away from us.

[@FreeFire-hz9qs]

@@leafyveins4985 the fact that you dated compassionate and loving men and then left them speaks about your character

[@FreeFire-hz9qs]

@@leafyveins4985 also proves that they were not loving and compassionate

[@metropunklitan]

growing up i distinctly remember my mom, aunt, grandma in HER 70's being absolutely miserable in the relationship, giving and giving to relatives, daughters, grandaughters. there were signs of emotional and physical abuse in all three, my mom had lung cancer and d*d cheated and divorced her the next years, she survived throught that and depression, shes still working oversea to pay for the medical debts and send me and sister money, we spent all our childhood with grandparents (which is another domestic abuse situation), dad didnt paid child support, move on with his new life and wife, even though his job and position paid so much better than my mom's. all the male figures in my life get to "focus" on their careers, for some reason, that means they get to live a life of complete willful ignorance, never engage in my life or so much as asking how was my day at school, never have to be aware of the suffering of others around them. I never understood, im trying to heal and make art now

[@MarioMario-vy4bi]

That’s being selfish and they weren’t held accountable for it.

[@haruk2312]

I like how you censored that one word

[@dragonmage7980]

A lot if it is women letting shitty men get away with murder through a laconic of boundaries and accountability. I understand how hard it was in the past when divorce and financial independence wasn't an option for women, but nowadays y'all need to seriously push back and stop giving obvious pieces of shit 10 million chances.

[@valeriaswanne]

Willful ignorance is a great description

[@bdnnijs192]

"all the male figures in my life get to "focus" on their careers" Few men have 'careers'. Most men have Jobs. I'm sorry for your miserable situation. When I was growing up it was my mom that was a deadbeat, causing problems we're still recovering from. But presenting the abuse inflicted upon men as a positive for them is toxic.

[@aslik.8102]

I always felt a mens love lacking. But I could never put my finger on why. I knew the statistics of women beeing abandoned by their spouses when they had a chronicle illness and never understood how they could be so hartless to abonden their wifes so easily. This Video gave me a great insight. Thank you. 😊

[@rejectionisprotection4448]

Yes, me too. I experienced it as a hole in the heart, a disconnect and like yourself never really understood why........until now.

[@veebliss1266]

They aren’t emotionally available that’s why and they aren’t capable of true empathy! That’s the secret!

[@Nerobyrne]

​@@rejectionisprotection4448 someone else not loving you gave a hole in your heart? I thought like that once, then I learned to love myself

[@thewisdomdivatv]

Yes my ex divorced me after I got cancer.. I sought therapy looking for answers and the therapist said it’s VERY common and that made me feel so much better.. weird I know but I was very ashamed to admit how he treated me like I was the problem for burdening him with my illness when our kids were little.

[@Cindy99765]

​@thewisdomdivatv I so so hope you are doing better now. As horrible as that divorce must have been, at least you were able to find out his true disturbing behavior.

[@shiina29]

Oh yeah, things like the old, "I paid for dinner so you owe me" are examples of this. And the recent trend of men asking "what do you bring to the table" as though dating was a business negation. Once you're aware of it, you'll notice men doing this all of the time.

[@veebliss1266]

Because predators are transactional!!!!!! They don’t use LOVE or comfort or companionship and don’t care for it!

[@zacharybosley1935]

@veebliss1266 This misrepresents the situation fairly substantially, i think. The average guy is not going to be some cold-hearted sociopath leveraging for profit in their relationships. They just aren't conditioned in such a way that affirms values of unconditional love, which leads to the types of behaviors mentioned above more often than not.

[@teresamagnusson]

​@@zacharybosley1935Let's not defend these males, please.

[@PrinceKoffe]

​@zacharybosley1935 You are quite pseudo intellectual. You said a word salad to say transactional but here's the reason, it's the one already stated.

[@JCPRuckus]

​@@zacharybosley1935 - Unconditional love does not exist, except from mothers, and not even always from them. If your partner you love starts being physically abusive, are you going to keep loving them? No. Because your love is conditional on not being abused. There's always conditions on love. It's just that we have a whole list of conditions that we take for granted to the point that we don't think of them as conditions, but they are. That's why "falling out of love" is even a concept, and women do it too. Because romantic love is not unconditional.

[@cindygiesbrecht3146]

It would be a good first step if men had compassion for THEMSELVES. I have witnessed many men struggling with health issues and other issues and never asking for help help

[@ak5659]

For too many men asking for help has resulted in being labelled weak, substandard, etc.

[@alacrity28]

This is so true. So many men suffer in silence, not having self compassion or asking for help. For women it’s so much more normalized to ask for support from your friends and to share openly about what you’re going through

[@jeneah8202]

It's because they're going to be labeled as "feminine" and it sucks because being "Feminine" means weakness and fragility. I really hate how society made it a norm that being a woman/feminine is automatically classified a weakness that both women and men had to be ashamed of. Like for a woman, from the moment you were born, you automatically fell into the category of being fragile and weak. While in men, you are expected to be strong and tough and showing a weakness means that you'll be hearing things like "Why are you being like that over something so little? You are like a girl bla bla". It's insulting for both men and women because while we all have different strength and weaknesses as an individual, we are still a flawed human being that get hurt too and would have a moment of fragility no matter how strong we seems. I swear, gender role is really the worse

[@dragonmage7980]

A lot of us are like this because we're told basically from birth that we're expendable. When I was growing up and food was scarce, my kid sister would eat first, then my mom, then my dad (worked a manual job and needed to be able to keep working to support us, otherwise he would've ate last) then me. If there wasn’t enough food I wouldn't eat, and it was a given that was just how things were and I shouldn't complain, because I'm a man and our role is to shut up, sack up, and make sacrifices for everyone else because our needs don't matter. I've struggled to take care of myself and make the best of opportunities as an adult, because it’s ingrained in me that I don't matter and am not worth it. A lot of men you see, whether they cover it with arrogance and assholery or others or not, experience the same.

[@___________________________._]

While I agree that that would be beneficial. I also have to ask: who? Who should we ask? There is no one. I have nobody to ask for help. And that's the case for a lot of people, especially men. We don't have the support networks. That is an issue. One that I don't know how to solve.

[@Asa...S]

3:11 "The happiest [married] women were only as happy as the unhappiest [married] men." Wish more women knew this before getting married.

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@Asa...S it does raise the question of who wins, doesn't it?

[@rejectionisprotection4448]

"You can be married or you can be happy".

[@brook_angel]

​@@zacharybosley1935relationships aren't about winning. It's not a competition.

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@brook_angel a collaboration is just a team competition.

[@GoldieBrown-pc6mb]

​@@zacharybosley1935 Then you definitely need the help of this Creator and the others that he mentioned!

[@rejectionisprotection4448]

Saw a video about unconditional love with two straight couples. 3 out of 4 people saw love as very conditional and for the men in particular, unconditional meant access to the person in question. From the comments you could tell that most men believed that unconditional love meant access and also included some element of sacrifice on the woman's part. However, the woman who believed in unconditional love saw it as something that transcendended access. If a man had an affair, she'd would still love him but wouldn't stay in the relationship. That didn't go down very well with her husband at that point.

[@Vee_Davis-wb9wd]

THIS ---> If a man had an affair, she'd would still love him but wouldn't stay in the relationship. That didn't go down very well with her husband at that point. I TOLD A GUY THIS AND HE THOUGHT I WAS JOKING...AFTER THE FIRST INCIDENT OF TRYING TO WORK THRU IT I FINALLY ADMITTED I DIDNT LIKE HIM....I LOST RESPECT FOR HIM AND DIDNT TRUST HIM FOR REAL ....SO I WALKED AWAY AND HE GOT MAD I WOULDNT LET HIM HAVE ACCESS TO ME...TOLD ME I WAS BEING CONTROLLING CAUSE I DIDNT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH HIM.....LOL MEN ARE JOKE AND WOMEN NEED TO JUST WALK AWAY FROM, THEM ALL TOGETHER

[@teresamagnusson]

It's all about access for men because access is what they desperately need. They're incomplete people, and women are complete in an of themselves. They need our completeness to make them feel while. They need sex and emotion, which they lack and we have. We have lower scx drives and are emotionally complete within ourselves.

[@globallyinterested789]

@@Vee_Davis-wb9wd Controlling over access to your own body? Well, I should hope so. Good for you.

[@Vee_Davis-wb9wd]

@@globallyinterested789 word

[@rattgod]

The only people who should be loved unconditionally are children and adults who have no choice but are dependent on other adults to care for them and meet their needs (the elderly, disabled, and mentally challenged etc.) most men think unconditional love means they can do and say whatever they want and still be given grace by their partners, it’s delusional.

[@jasminet3419]

Wow this video filled in so many gaps in logic for me. Why my male friends/boyfriends said certain things in my life that left me scratching my head. A guy friend literally said that sex was "transactional" as if I should be able to empathise with that, but I was just like wait, what? An ex boyfriend also told me to not walk in a local park at night because he heard a girl being assaulted... I was like oh my god, did you call the police? And he's like no? Why would I? WTF. That was the chilling moment that made me realise the extent to his transactional nature. And subsequently, I couldn't trust him anymore. What if I broke my contract with him? What would happen to me then? And yes, he did get verbally very abusive when we broke up.

[@jasminet3419]

And an ex also said to me "you wouldn't be with me unless I had a career". I was like wait what? We never had this discussion and I never knew that's how he felt.

[@sudonim116]

​@@jasminet3419that's so sad to find out, glad you left him lol

[@user-vx3wc8yc9v]

@@jasminet3419 I mean he's right, you wouldn't and men know this Women only get involved with men for their status and resources, they do not want men for their personhood and women make it VERY clear

[@EvelynSaungikar]

Men don’t display empathy because society sees empathy as weak, I.e. feminine. Men who like cats and small dogs, who cry at sad movies, are considered suspect. God forbid if a man enjoys playing with kids, even his own, other than in aggressive sports, or say, fishing. Boys are told not to cry. So, things that cry are alarming, distasteful. It’s literally beaten out of boys, by men in their life, and their peers, don’t show fear, sadness. So, they are suspicious of empathy. They think people showing them caring, have an ulterior motive, because why else would they do it? Or else, they see the person as weak.

[@briannadickson2884]

They allowed themselves to marry each other. This would be a very small obstacle for them to overcome.

[@charikloangel33]

Men display empathy when it benefits them. I got played by a man while I was grieving the loss of my dad. At first, I appreciated the support at a vulnerable time in my life, but I guess that made me easy prey. The nice guy image was just a front. I saw his true colours afterwards. Absolutely gutted at the time, but having this insight and learning about avoidant attachment styles has been invaluable.

[@magnarcreed3801]

See it would almost make sense if it wasn’t for the fact women get teased and mocked too for those things.

[@andredunbar3773]

​@@magnarcreed3801 I suppose it plays into gender roles and expectations regarding how boys/men are expected to behave as compared to expectations placed on girls/women

[@magnarcreed3801]

@@andredunbar3773 Except women are ridiculed regardless of if it’s expected of them or not. Their gender roles are still mocked. So neither should theoretically be empathetic.

[@Kontroversial84]

If men see love as transactional, why do they expect undying loyalty from women?

[@chey7691]

It is expected of them and they are told that "it's what women do" and fail to understand it should be mutual. Saying this as a guy that took a while to gain his empathy.

[@wittymystic7361]

They don't necessarily see it as an equal transaction. Many view dating like playing old-time slot machines. They want to find the machine they can put a quarter into and then get a big payoff.

[@pvp6077]

These men think of themselves as "the prize" that all women are striving for. Offer a long-term commitment, maybe a ring, and she has to do everything for him for the rest of his life. See he's "willing to settle down" and give a woman her greatest desire, being _picked_ Obviously she should be grateful for the rest of time. Doesn't matter what he does afterwards, it's her responsibility to "stand by her man" otherwise she's _disloyal_ and "breaking the contract" It's exactly like previous commenter said. He wants to stick his quarter in a bunch of machines and complain that they're cheating him until he sticks it in the one who's gonna give him a big payoff. And once he has what he wants, he might still go around playing the rest of the slots, looking for another. But the machine dont get her payout back.

[@sarahsiddiqa6945]

Because a lot of them are selfish

[@teresamagnusson]

It's not a real transaction. They get to be transactional while we have to be unconditional.

[@thejurijo9388]

This was very interesting because for a long time I couldn't understand why so many men are cruel and unkind and lacking compassion. I refused to believe that it was biology, that men are simply built different and thus cannot change. I grew up surrounded by men who prove that false. All the men in my family show unconditional love to their children and I had never realised that this was not normal. Unconditional love is expected from a parent and anything less makes them an unfit parent. I can see now that I am incredibly lucky. But I also think it's not so rare to find such men as my father and it's not so hard to become more like him.

[@aclark446]

It IS biological. Your father was simply lucky enough to have people that taught him how to act empathy out.

[@Wednesdaywoe1975]

It is not biological.

[@rachels.8051]

@@aclark446 It is socialization - it is not biologically ingrained.

[@aclark446]

@@rachels.8051 Sure yes, "socialization". That's why every single culture throughout the entirety of human history has the same pattern. Every culture just magically happened to evolve the same socialization patterns of its males. Definitely nothing to do with nature.

[@sonofhibbs4425]

@@aclark446 maybe if men were gorillas, but they are not…hopefully.

[@sinovuyobudaza7167]

This was a very interesting explanation of why some men who are angry about child support.

[@Nerobyrne]

There's plenty of good reasons to be mad about child support, at least in the US. I'm so glad I live in a country with civilized laws, where it's actually proportional to income.

[@sinovuyobudaza7167]

@Nerobyrne It's proportional to income and expenses in South Africa. To the extent that you're more likely to pay way less than what the child actually needs. A real life example, you can be ordered to pay R1k even when your income is R50k simply because your expenses are so much that you don't have much surplus. In this real life example the ex husband never paid a dim because he was determined to make her pay for divorcing him. She divorced him after he had 3 children outside their marriage. Here is another example. I bumped into my ex last year and he shared this with me. He admitted that he used to pay the mother of his children inconsistently R5k a month for their two children. Once she got tired of the inconsistencies she filed for child support. The court said based on his income and expenses he could not afford R5k a month. At most he can afford R1.5k a month. He claim to continue paying R5k because he understands how expensive raising two kids was. A lot of men in South Africa complain about child support and even lie about how much they were ordered to pay. My ex told me that he used to believe those lies himself until he experienced it himself. His lawyer even explained to him that the worse thing a single mother can do to herself is file for child support. I already knew this because I've volunteered in Welfare organization that help single mother's find their feet. I've even housed the single mother who's husband refused to R1k. She stayed with me for 18 months.

[@kellycowley3535]

@@Nerobyrne I'm pretty sure it's proportional to income in the US as well. The amount of stories I heard of men purposefully getting rubbish jobs or becoming unemployed so they don't have to pay child support is too many.

[@Nerobyrne]

@kellycowley3535 plenty of guys living out of their cars too because they can't afford rent AND child support. But then that might also be because housing prices in America are at levels that should be illegal. I will say though that getting unemployed so you don't have to pay CS is really dumb. I can't imagine that you have more living on unemployment. And if you actually do, that's probably something the system should be changed to avoid. The last thing anyone should want is that having kids incentivises one to quit their job.

[@zacharybosley1935]

honestly, the transaction paradigm does a lot to anticipate the logic of a guy's most dysfunctional behaviors. They're reactions to a perceived imbalance of value

[@dropkgirl7157]

Thank you for this. I struggle with the fact that no matter how hard I try to raise my son right, his father will always have an outsize influence on him, and it's mostly negative. It breaks my heart.

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@dropkgirl7157 as someone raised by a single mother. I want to offer this comfort. Presence is always something of value, even if it's not always apparent, or expressed.

[@OGK-1414]

🫂

[@ChristConvicted]

Ugh...I feel this...

[@thewisdomdivatv]

OMG me too and he says he wants to be married and have children but treats girls the way his father treated me when we were married - speaking in a condescending tone, being bothered only when he feels like it. I forced him into therapy but I don’t know if it’s helping and that makes me so sad for him.

[@dropkgirl7157]

@thewisdomdivatv I'm so sorry. So many mothers put in so much of our hearts and our hard work into raising a child, all for them to emulate someone who put in so much less.

[@sadejones6657]

From a young age i figured out something was wrong with them and not me. It has helped me with the feelings of abandonment every since. I am grateful for my young mind.

[@kishdom282]

Please read: Smith & Doe 'what men don't want women to know". 41 shades of men the pursue to subdue and use you by Princella Clark.

[@strawberrysangria1474]

There’s a thick line between the empathetic and the ignorant for the entire population. The men on my father’s side are misogynistic and controlling, and the women on my mother’s are jealous and cold. At our get-together s, I’m constantly breaking up fights and defending the vulnerable from someone who should know better. When you grown up abused or neglected, you either swear to never be like your tormentors, or you turn out just like them. I don’t understand those that were victimized and decide to make more victims. Those kinds of people are pitiful, not respectable.

[@TheWonderpickle]

If I had to guess, it's because they got victimized and never got what they see as proper justice for whatever transgression. Thus they are taught by their life experiences that people can do shitty things and get away with it so why not do the shitty thing when it's easier to do and get away with. That and it probably feels vindicating for them to inflict that same hurt onto others that they feel deserve it.

[@strawberrysangria1474]

@@TheWonderpickle Sadly, you’re probably right. They get very fussy when I tell them off; like it’s a great injustice that I stopped them for picking on children and causing strife. I guess they’re unlikely to change if continuing the cycle feels vindicating.

[@dragonmage7980]

They identify with the strength of the abuser rather than with their own pain. Eg. If I hurt others that means they can't hurt me

[@qryptid]

There's a huge crossover here with organized religion. The largest organized religions promise a reward, an eternal reward, for certain behavior. As they and their (male) leaders often interpret it, you don't have to be a good person, you don't have to treat others well, you just have to follow the rules as interpreted by other men, which are largely twisted to exclusively benefit men, to the explicit detriment of women. You act the right way, the higher power rewards you with a good life, and for them that includes access to a woman to bear his children and lay in his bed. Nowadays many of these men aren't directly religious but were raised in the church/temple/organization and still carry that belief with them, as it plays nicely with the American meritocracy that says "work hard, get what you deserve". There are so many things they're raised with, and continue to live with, that says woman are "less" and so they deserve less, and they cannot empathize with someone who is "less" than them, but they, as men, are the superior more logical being and should always be prioritized.

[@qryptid]

This isn't a statement or argument against faith or religion, I think faith is beautiful, and religion can create a place for community, but we can't deny the hold that it has on the current social landscape we're navigating

[@fen4ri]

In my opinion a lot of people substitute all contemplation of morality with a simple set of rules provided by their religion, and leave it at that. I think that's not enough, and we should encourage better.

[@rebeccachalk2860]

Organized religions cause much more harm than good and are founded upon misogyny and violence.

[@whalescolive]

thank you, 20 y/o male here just tryna learn how to be more human

[@kishdom282]

It's very rare to see a male acknowledge this truth! I'm hoping you have matriculated male influences around. You're already on your way by accepting your nature and wanting to do the work. Stay busy,set goals, practice semen retention, exercise, practice healthy eating and philosophy is a very informative. Wish you well.

[@sundown6806]

You're already human. You're just struggling with the socialization that our society has ingrained into you, like all of us. There is no original sin to atone for. You're okay. Also, don't listen to that other person. Especially don't practice "semen retention". You will get prostate cancer by doing that.

[@haleygoeswhoohoo]

Good for you!!

[@ZipMapp]

Don't listen to this old harpy. There's nothing inherently wrong with you. This is just a bunch of fruatrated single women venting, don't take them seriously. You already have empathy, you just need a bit of introspection to find it. Don't ever apologize of diminish yourself for the sole reason of being a man.

[@LuigiMario-o7o]

@@kishdom282semen retention is dumb

[@jusssable]

The real reason why men should learn empathy is, so that they don't become completely obsolete in our society. It could be in their own interest.

[@tripplebarrelfinn4380]

Well, I learnt that there is an upside of being raised by a single mother (with help from my grandmother), I only ever experienced unconditional love.

[@zacharybosley1935]

that's not a single mother perk. That's a loving parent perk. Both me and my sibling were told in fairly explicit terms by our mother that we were basically her retirement plan, and that people were only really as valuable as you can make them.

[@teresamagnusson]

​@@zacharybosley1935Well, this is why you're a transactional guy, because you had a bad mom who treated you in a transactional way.

[@teresamagnusson]

Ladies, avoid dudes like Zachary Bosley.

[@JCPRuckus]

​@@teresamagnusson - Perfect example of weaponizing a man being open and vulnerable. This is exactly why men are how we are. Because we are punished by the very people telling us to be more open when we listen to them.

[@JCPRuckus]

Watching my single mother be a failure at life because she always put others first did more to convince me to avoid empathy than anything else as a child. I was also robbed of the chance to learn life lessons about pushing through hardship, doing things that needed doing even if I didn't want to, and sticking to my commitments, because failing to do those things never had consequences for the sake of "unconditional love". Having a single mother was in no way a blessing, exactly because of a mother's "unconditional love".

[@starstorm1267]

I said it once, I’ll say it again. In order to form meaningful relationships with people, you need to have empathy. If you don’t have that, then you will never have any relationships with anyone. People may stick around, but they’ll be nothing more than strangers to you.

[@europeangardenflower9812]

My mothers love was transactional at best and the bar was set unachievebly high, my dads love was non existing. He didn't hate us, but was completely indifferent no matter what we tried. He was like a brick wall. So yeah, emotional scars.

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@europeangardenflower9812 my sympathies

[@graycat7704]

Same here. I’m a girl and always felt very masculine because I lacked love in my house. Now I’m just as cold and clueless about truly loving people.

[@dragonmage7980]

Same. My father was actually more loving than my mother; he was still abusive as hell due to his own upbringing, but he tried, and he did ultimately give a shit about what happened to us. My mother is a genuinely psychopathic piece of shit, and unconditional love in humans is a complete fallacy imo. Animals can love unconditionally, but not humans.

[@madhuparnaghosh6254]

​@@dragonmage7980 so sorry you went through such horrible experiences as a child. I hope you find love, warmth, good days, a lot of laughter and overall joy. Take care ❤.

[@maggie6152]

Oh...OH...OOOOOHHHHHHHHH...good lord this explains a lot. "Why do anything if I don't directly benefit from it in some way?" "Why pay child support if I don't get access to their mother or the kids?" Why so many men put their male peers opinions oof them over women's outside of "does it get me a girlfriend". Crap I gotta go chew on this for a while.

[@InternetNonsense]

Some men even avoid having higher pay than they could to avoid giving the best for their offspring, make it make sense.

[@kishdom282]

Read: Smith & Doe 'what men doesn't want women to know " if you think this is enlightening you'll be in shock.

[@Anemonemarie]

​@@InternetNonsense When my mom tried to set up child support for us my dad quit his job right before the court date. He got a new job and they rescheduled but then he quit again before the date so he wouldn't have to pay as much in child support. Thanks Dad.

[@JackJill-lv2xm]

You're ok with preventing a father from meeting his children but not him being able to see them? Other than cases of abuse or rape, how does that make sense

[@ZipMapp]

​@InternetNonsense No they don't. If anything, child support in the US is a milking industry. Stop spreading fake news.

[@dalgona4819]

I feel like this ongoing problem of men not understanding empathy goes hand in hand with the male loneliness epidemic

[@ak5659]

I agree. One thing I think is not a cause but rather an unrelated source of fuel flowing 24/7/365 is the fact that it's now almost impossible for young men to get a job that pays a living wage. What my grandfather had accomplished making a life for himself at 25, my father needed until 30, and I needed 35. And the situation has slipped much more since. You can work 60 hours a week and it still isn't enough. The traditional path to adulthood is closed.

[@JayBee-hk7ej]

The struggle I (woman) felt when I explained to a friend of mine that being a nice person includes being nice to as many deserving people around you as possible. His answer? "But I don't want to sleep with them!" Oh my...

[@domtekos7761]

Sadly, seen too often. Too many guys only are nice to women they want to sleep with and men they want something from.

[@btoiscool]

This is a product of how they were consistently treated. I don't see why this is a shock to any of you

[@btoiscool]

​@@domtekos7761males aren't treated well unless they are being utilized as tools, why do you expect them to treat anyone different in turn

[@JayBee-hk7ej]

@@btoiscool And who's treating them like this? What do you think where the reason lies...

[@domtekos7761]

@btoiscool I don't feel that way and this isn't my experience, mate. Talk for yourself! Sorry you feel like such a victim and that, what's worse, you justify being awful to others because of it.

[@SherioCheers]

This should have been taught to them at 6 when everyone else learns it. I'm tired of having to play "make-up mommy" to guys whos parents had the "boys will be boys" mentality.

[@destroyraiden]

yet its not just his parents his parents could've taught him but patriarchy and it's culture will over ride what the parents do fast in childhood but lets say those loving parents counter this cuz they can once that kid gets the internet or around too many "cool" men or he turns 15 parental influence has zero care in his mind teen minds work differently hence we do not need low age of consents thats for adult males who want kids but the teen mind at this age cares deeply on what the culture values not the family values therefore boys care deeply about what cool males think and so do girls so girls get toxic boys and boys become toxic boys cuz an adult said it would give the boy his approval and he wants that approval and she living in a culture that since birth told her she's inferior and not good this is how she becomes good by being the ho-cool girl for every toxic man she can find and once she realizes that was males using her she's now called bitter, jealous, and man hating. Both are trying to survive in a patriarchy but the women has it all against her no matter what she does or doesn't do and the boy has half stacked and he needs to ladder climb in hierarchy or else he feels he was fully screwed over even though he's only half screwed over and can't get more so due to he's not a woman.

[@ladyeowyn42]

My boy is almost six. His dad is no longer living with us because his transactional fatherhood was undermining everything I’m doing as well as harming our son. I could only stand up in this way because I make enough money.

[@zacharybosley1935]

We don't live in a world of 'should' If everyone did what they should've done, we wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. This is a world of what is, and it is still the case that a lot of young men will not be taught this.

[@InternetNonsense]

​@@zacharybosley1935 Then they are unlikely to find future partners and such behavior is slowly evolved out of the gene pool as in any other species.

[@dragonmage7980]

So date better men rather than expecting obvious assets to somehow magically change for you

[@Nerobyrne]

I was actually raised the other way around: I didn't crave my mother's love, because i knew it didn't exist. And my father loved me with no strings attached.

[@Capunderpants]

I'm happy for you but the unfortunate reality is most men are like this because they were raised terribly by their parents it's a cycle of abuse. it's in their formative years that is realistically the only way to stop the cycle.

[@l.n.3372]

​@@kc6810 My family dynamic is the exact opposite of OP: mom loved us unconditionally, dad barely acknowledged us.

[@MicaBlue-s2h]

Did that make you less misogynistic compared to the average man?

[@screamskilos3951]

​@@MicaBlue-s2hwe are tired of being called misogynists... you guys dont understand but its ppl that talk like you that ALSO contribute to the global shift towards right wing politics. The very basis of your world view is that most men are sexist.... why would anyone have to stand for that? At this point nobody js reaching across w empathy, whats the point of your world view what will you accomplish except blabbing on about useless s***.

[@random-lankan]

You've described my story down to the word. My mom has every sign of narcissism, and she's the only parent who's ever been violent towards me. Then there's my dad, who's literally the best and is my best friend in the world. Even when I had issues with stuff like my periods, I talked to my dad for help.

[@ziqi92]

I’m neurodivergent, but I grew up with parents who never showed any emotion except anger and anxiety. Any moments of real joy and love were extremely fleeting. Communication of any emotions was impossible. I, however, had the fortune of having friends who were more than capable of expressing love. Many of whom would later come out as gay, trans, lesbian, etc. I learned empathy from them. They saved me and I will always be grateful to them, even if I don’t talk to them anymore as we’ve all grown up and gone about our separate ways.

[@land___shark]

how did you get past the feeling of your friendships feeling transactional?

[@ziqi92]

@ giving them the benefit of the doubt and hearing them out. I’ve found that the best way to get over this transactional feeling is to be the one who ISN’T transactional first when such a situation arises. You can never control what other people do, only what you do. Be the person you want to be treated as. Stick to it, and always cut off the people who don’t give you that respect. The few who respond to your non-transactional approach accordingly are friends for life.

[@cephalonaural6854]

I feel like watching things like this go on with my mother is part of why I can’t form emotional bonds to men, my mom had 5 miscarriages, the last one nearly killed her and she had to have her tubes tied, her now exhusband at that point went and got another woman knocked up and left, expecting my mom to do all the work of the divorce, and even dodging court dates and papers to make it harder for her. Mom was then raising me alone, and everytime she would meet a new guy he’d be all interested until she wouldn’t give up her job or be some docile house wife and then he would usually freak out and leave. After dealing with CSA from some of these men, including my real father, I frankly do not trust most men enough to even befriend them, especially since a lot of them view friendship as a means to get laid. I’m now happily married to my wife of two years and I still get guys who try and get in on it, some of whom do not want to take no for an answer and think they can fix me, which is a whole nother can of worms..

[@eljofrva]

Marriage doesn’t benefit women anyway, and I think many of us are starting to realize that we should aspire for greater things and set more fulfilling goals than to only be a mom or a wife. No judgment on those who want to be a mom or a wife, it is your right as an autonomous being and I will support you! I just wish that women would support the rest of us who don’t want the traditional status quo type of situation that women have had to settle for for so long!

[@jennifersilves4195]

Women file the majority of divorces because we always do all of the work in relationships.

[@Gotoworkkk]

Social media is your only love.

[@ladybug3380]

Well yeah that’s what happens when you try to be in a relationship with someone who doesn’t have empathy. One cannot love without empathy. A lot of women are realizing that men can’t truly love them.

[@teresamagnusson]

​@@GotoworkkkNot by choice

[@teresamagnusson]

​@@ladybug3380No, they can't truly live us. They can only use us

[@birdiewolf3497]

Yeah, men are just not going to go down to the courthouse to file the paperwork. According to a survey of male divorcees over half of them wanted their divorce. Men will leave you, and still expect you to do all the work. It’s ridiculous.

[@kaymac7849]

It's a capitalism thing. When care work is less valued, when essential jobs are paid less than all those Hedgefonds and Stock Market Jobs, who no one needed during the pandemic, this kind of mindset effects everything and everyone. This system can only exist, because of the free care work of mostly women and the underpaid essentiall work of a lot of the workforce. And it benefits a small group who are using the system and cheating their way up. When everything is a transaction, why would it stop at home? When Mothers are expected to love unconditionally but Fathers are absent or only love under conditions, without questioning this contradiction, the system will not change. It works exactly how it should for the rich. On the costs of all of us.

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@kaymac7849 multiple interlocking systems. It's always the multiple interlocking systems. Unraveling patriarchy inevitably means confronting capitalism, and the conflict is always so long and tiring.

[@saharkhalili5303]

Capitalism depends on forma of exploitation for the law of creating value. To create the gap between cost and price, someone has to lose, or pay.

[@kaymac7849]

@@zacharybosley1935 Your absolutely right. There are multiple interlocking systems, thats why it is so hard to think outside of it. Hard but not impossible. Capitalism is the most obvious of it.

[@kaymac7849]

@@saharkhalili5303 sadly this is the case. But the system doesn't includes the real longterm costs. It's self destructive in the long term.

[@Anyox17]

I agree, but I think whittling it down to solely capitalism is woefully simplistic. How about the influence of damaging religious ideas? The effects of warfare on men/the male collective consciousness? Their reinforced cultural behaviors promoting violence and demonizing emotions/emotional intelligence which have existed since ancient times? How about the effects of pornography on the brain? These are all equally important factors.

[@Himmiefan]

Is this why men only see issues with sexual assault and harassment only when it touches one of "their" women?

[@chey7691]

As a guy who stands up for women I'm not even in a relationship with. YES that's the reason they don't bother to help, no benefit to themselves=no action.

[@yougotOWENd]

I think it has more to do with how nearer the issue the more you care about it. Like if your child gets sick with a certain disease, suddenly you are forced to dig deeper into what that means and you get more empathy with the entire group of people suffering that disease. Then there is also like resource and energy preservation. Like hey millions of people are starving, but I can only afford to take care of people near me and not let them starve.

[@hugofontes5708]

​@@yougotOWENd I think this comparison doesn't work here. Because at least OP didn't mention taking action or even getting involved, just "seeing issue with". Like, some men just don't even care to the point they firmly believe the issue itself is non-existent. Straight up not real. This stance however, is a real thing, and frankly kinda hard to argue against because these men are so stubbornly determined to deny it.

[@yougotOWENd]

@@hugofontes5708 So all the men are saying they are against SA but when it actually happens it gets denied? Way to go lol. In all honesty though its sad. So many cases of abuse just slip through the cracks. Talking about physical violence, emotional abuse. I just hoped SA would have improved with the metoo movement and stuff back then. Why is it with 911 that happened 23 years ago now that we have lots of airport security still (which is a good thing dont get me wrong), but with alarming numbers of SA its not tackled?

[@dragonmage7980]

Probably moreso because most men won't ever experience sexual assault, and can't imagine what it must be like due to having no frame of personal anatomic reference. Women's sexual anatomy automatically includes the penetrative aspect, so you guys likely have an instinctive hypothetical understanding not just of positive sexual experiences relating to experiencing penetration, but also negative. Straight men don't get that; even with anal sex, having something shoved up your butt isn't usually ever an occurance for men, so they have no frame of reference for how violating non-consensual penetration might feel. I have some understanding myself due to being bisexual, but I also recognise that my perspective is not the same as a woman's, and can't ever be.

[@suzsiz]

Yeah I had a guy I was friends with who I had to «break up with» cus he catched feelings and became obsessive. He was angry and upset that I didnt give him anything in return, because «he was so Nice to me»… umm Yeah, no.. like Sylvia Plath says: women Are not machines that you put kindness in, then sex falls out. I dont have male friends for this reason. In the end they end up expecting their part of the «transaction». 🙄

[@WhichDoctor1]

this is why soo many right-wingers believe its impossible for men and women to be friends. Because for them it is. If they are nice to a woman, which one would hope is part of a friendship, they expect something in return. And the only thing they see women as capable of offering is sex. So either they cheat on their partner to get the return on their investment with their female friend. Or they see that friendship as a unproductive investment

[@neoqwerty]

Ah, a sighting of the Nice Guy in the wild. My condolences for having had to deal with one of those! I guess at least yours didn't threaten to end himself because you called it off when he rushed into his YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE I WANT TO SPEND MY WHOLE LIFE WITH AND MARRY AND HAVE KIDS WITH spiel after 2 weeks of casual dating, at least? (that was the guy that made me snap and have enough, and I ripped him a new one for trying to guilt trip me, I remember screaming "Don't you dare try to say it's my fault you're too pathetic to want to live if you can't get everything that you want" because I happen to have recovered from depression and extremely shitty self-esteem and he stepped on a massive landmine with his guilt trip attempt. I sicced our (adult) school's psychologist and his teachers on him and washed my hands of him and the school, because I didn't want that dipshit anywhere near me or I would have gotten myself arrested for throwing a desk in his face.)

[@nomoreraisins]

​@@neoqwerty gods, some people are just beyond mean. Just not worthy of any interaction. I am glad you sorted it out.

[@Khaons]

​@@neoqwertyword

[@spongecakes1986]

​@@neoqwertydamn. I had a girlfriend who tried to manipulate me like that once. Only she did it all throughout the relationship to make sure I wouldn't even try to leave. She's lucky I was only fourteen and she was the first person I ever loved romantically, so I didn't realize how awful it was that she was doing this. The kicker? She's the one who broke up with me and went no contact immediately without a given reason, when she knew I was having an especially hard time that specific week. Miss "I'll never break up with you and when you break up with me I'll probably k**l myself because I love you so much" broke up with me without giving a reason (and when I say reason, I don't mean "you did this thing so we're done", I mean so much as a "this isn't working and I don't feel that way anymore") when she knew I was struggling more than ever. Because of everything she said while we were dating, I was legitimately scared that she was actually planning to end herself and was doing the thing where they get rid of stuff even if they love it cause they think they won't need it anymore. But no, she was just a terrible person who liked playing with my emotions to ensure that she'd have the final say in when things ended. If someone ever says that shit to you, you shut them down real quick.

[@tinfoilslacks3750]

It's not that men lack empathy. It's that, *even when actively trying to empathize with women,* they come to opposite conclusions because gender in the modern world is so polarized that earnestly putting themselves in women's shoes doesn't lead to the same experiences women have. When I was in college, we had a demonstration on sexual harassment where men were exposed to sexual harassment and catcalling equivalent, sometimes even more intense than what a lot of the women said they encountered. Every single man walked away feeling confident, happy, attractive and appreciated. All of them took cat calling as a genuine compliment, all of them took actions that were objectively sexual harassment as welcome sexual advances. The biggest take away was from one of the smaller and shyer guys, who said quote "I would love to be objectified every single day. I would love to have intrinsic worth as an object of somebody's sexual desires than to have zero worth period, which is what I have now." Some of these men despite being 20+ years old, said it was literally the first time they'd ever been complimented on their appearance. Women want to be treated like people and not objects, and a subsection of men would openly welcome being objectified because they're treated as people and society has deemed them worthless through that lense of personhood. A lot of young men have problems that are diametrically opposed to or the inverse of women's problems, which make them interpret women's problems as desirable for them to have. This isn't an inability to empathize. *This is men empathizing.* The entire dynamic is people dying of thirst being asked to empathize with people drowning, and then being surprised when they feel not sympathy but envy.

[@RadishTheFool]

It's so sad that so few men realise that THEY could give other men compliments. That they could gather men around them with similar wants and needs, and find solutions together. Like complimenting and supporting each other. But too many of them still put all of that on women.

[@PlatinumAltaria]

The reason women don't view catcalling as a compliment is because it isn't a compliment, it's a threat. It's the reduction of a person to an object. The reason the men didn't see it that way is because of patriarchy: men are never objectives, women are. It was a failure to empathise with women that they couldn't imagine not being thrilled to be objectified.

[@chihirostargazer6573]

You are trying to make men out to be victims where they are not. If these men that just loooved being objectified had to deal with it every day and felt physically threatened by the people that were harassing them, they would not like it at all. Straight men getting relentlessly catcalled by gay men that are significantly larger than them would be much closer to what women experience while being objectified by men.

[@PlatinumAltaria]

@@chihirostargazer6573 Let's see how they react to getting catcalled by 6'4" muscular men who haven't taken a shower in a while.

[@tobinrogers41]

@@RadishTheFoolYou're so right. Some men are so miserable all the time because they feel unsupported, but also put absolutely no effort into supporting their friends. Like I get it, emotional vulnerability is difficult, and if you're expected to be strong and stoic, even visibly CARING is difficult. But they can't complain about men being unsupported if they don't even consider supporting other men.

[@ladyeowyn42]

Thank you for this. My husband is living separately because of emotional harm he’s done to our autistic son. You make clear how fatherhood being a transactional construct opens the door to harsh punishment that has no teaching value. My husband needs to demonstrate compassionate parenting skills, not simply “stop” doing X Y or Z. Thank you, this was very timely for my family.

[@ZipMapp]

Punishment should by definition not be educational. That's parenting 101. Did you consider you might be a terrible enabling mother?

[@fehyndana7725]

@@ZipMappwhat value does punishment have if it's not educational? Punishment is meant to correct bad behavior, if it doesn't, it's just unnecessary cruelty.

[@ZipMapp]

@fehyndana7725 Punishment is not educational in itself, it is purely a consequence of bad behavior. The same way you would give a threat to a dog doing a good thing, a punishment is. A negative threat. The education part exists outside of the punishment. Punishment could as dumb as "move these 10 rocks across the street", what matters is that the link between behavior and consequence is established. In this example the punishment has no educational value.

[@isobelyoung8591]

I believe most if not all women would rather be with a man who they find joy with then a man with lots of money. Money can't buy love.

[@InternetNonsense]

Rich men rarely share their fortune anyway, so yes.

[@freedomishavingachoice3020]

This really gets me too because so many of these men are raised with at least basic religious morals like "Gluttony" and "pride" being a sin. Yet they want to be rich and feel seen unconditionally. No one calls out the sin. Why?

[@InternetNonsense]

​@@freedomishavingachoice3020 Because rules and vows are for women to uphold, of course! They also dip if their wife is terminally ill, no "in sickness and health" or "'til death do us part" application for them. No wonder modern men flock to religion, that tells them they're mini demigods, while women leave it for it being all work and no reward for them. It's double standards galore.

[@screamskilos3951]

​@@InternetNonsensehaving money means nothing anyways, yay! I have all this representation of accumulated ressources!!! Like stacking sticks in a room, theres no purpose to it on its own.

[@user-vx3wc8yc9v]

More fun fairy tales we like to tell ourselves. Women ONLY care about money and status.

[@bluliite]

It seems animal apathy is on the rise, and as psychology has mentioned for years people who are cruel to animals will be cruel to people. I don't know why women keep settling for these highly apathetic men.

[@MinecraftRick]

A fundamental conviction that they do not deserve better.

[@zerotolerance2026]

When I decentered men I felt a sense of peace and freedom. It wasn’t a void I felt. It was sense of relief, Now I can focus on me and the life I wanted to create for myself. I’m very happy and I highly recommend all women to take this journey.

[@pennPi]

It’s the same outcome if the mother lacks empathy. My father gave us unconditional love and my mother is a malignant narcissist. My brother learned from my mother. I wouldn’t go so far as to call him a narcissist but he’s very avoidant and seems to lack empathy. His strengths are patience, being nonjudgmental, and his love language is through duty/loyalty. But emotionally he is very closed and has problems keeping relationships with women. In our case, it most definitely has to do with a profound distrust of women (stemming from our mother). There are many emotionally abusive mothers in the world.

[@BagelEnjoyer]

I absolutely don't have the full picture here, but I thought that it somehow seems a bit like that your brother has empathy (to an extent at least- you have described him as "non-judgemental" and "patient"), but it does seem like he has problems expressing it emotionally.

[@pennPi]

@@BagelEnjoyer yes, I think you’re right. There have been times he’s shown love and care mostly directed at our father, his closest friends or to me. But generally speaking he comes off as “cold”. I don’t know how to help him because he refuses therapy or the many videos on this subject I send him. I’ve gotten to the point of leaving him be and hopefully one day he’ll decide to heal on his own.

[@arthurg.calixto3338]

Your brother is literally me

[@pennPi]

@@arthurg.calixto3338 Emotional neglect/abuse that is chronic in early childhood results in CPTSD. My brother and I have it but we express it very differently. I became a people pleaser, and he became very stoic in an unhealthy way. (And the fact that he does not like animals is a huge difference between us. He thinks they are annoyances whereas I consider animals as having pure souls.) Please research CPTSD. Look up Pete Walker and his books on Complex PTSD.

[@KangwithoutaKangdom]

Same here, but my mother and brother are both volatile and violent. I made the decision to cut him off yesterday after he got upset that I called her an abusive parent and he was defending her. He JUST got diagnosed with a myriad of mental illnesses due to her abuse and still wants me to interact with her. I'm not interested in maintaining contact with my abuser, thx

[@EcoSailor]

This explains why my husband complains to me after every visit with my son and his family. He sees only that he's giving his time and energy to people who are not his family and he doesn't feel that he gets anything in return.

[@ZipMapp]

Maybe your family is boring as fk, idk?

[@Dontstopbelievingman]

Trying to provide a heterosexual man with enough love to feel validated feels like trying to solve a rubic's cube. If you don't provide all the services his mother did, he doesn't feel sufficiently catered to. If you don't offer him constant access to your body, then suddenly 'women equate sex with love, men don't', suddenly goes out the window. Offer unconditional love and he will abuse it by doing whatever he pleases, since you'll love him regardless and his pleasure is his main priority. Place any kind of responsibility on the relationship, like asking to know where your partner is at 3am, or for him to consistently carry half of the domestic load, or communicate about his wants and needs without it being a game of silence and explosions, and you're smothering. 2/10. Would not do again.

[@PlayfulJoyful]

Wow

[@DreamItCraftIt]

💯

[@jackielearnsandteaches]

SO accurate… I just straight up stopped dating after a couple of these relationships ate up most of my life, and left me shattered. Not even interested in men anymore… still mostly straight, just… not interested. It’s hard to trust men. I know…maybe 1 man who I would truly trust to love me unconditionally. Old friend. But too many others who I trusted for years, turned out awful. This video gave me a lot of clarity.

[@theburgerking1236]

@@jackielearnsandteachesIt’s a struggle they more than likely do exist can only really hope that at a certain point society has a flip a lot of this stems from the fact that we operate still a lot on instinct while our thought process is secondary to it.

[@dragonmage7980]

Have you considered having boundaries and not tolerating people using you?

[@innervoicejargon]

Also that said a lot of my male friends sometimes talk about dating in a transactional way. I approach dating in an open hearted why. I can find a friendship out of it. They don’t.

[@s1n4m1n]

Are you paying for all the dates with your “friends”? Would they hang around you if you didn’t?

[@bluester7177]

@@s1n4m1n so, paying = relationship?

[@IndigoCloudkitty]

​@bluester7177 The longer I sit in comment sections like these and read the men's replies, seeing how they just aren't getting it and keep blaming women for everything, really makes me wonder how I ever thought men were on par with women in any way. After the rise of the red pill I kinda just started seeing men as unintelligent, lesser beings. Kinda like how they view us lmao

[@deanandruth7439]

My heart dropped at this video. Things seem so bleak, empathy is the standard, a lot of men do not understand this, I truly empathise with them as I realise that if I was born as a man I would most likely fall victim to this way of thinking beacuse you can't know what you don't know. I appreciate your work. It sparks something in some of these men and that is all we can do.

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@deanandruth7439 there is a distinct sense of "you must be this tall to ride" sentiment in the idea that empathy is the standard.

[@deanandruth7439]

@@zacharybosley1935 I think I understand what you are saying, correct me if I’m wrong. I think that we should all try to understand each other especially those close to us, I think that putting yourself in another person’s shoes and not doing to them what you wouldn’t want them to do to you is the way to cultivate meaningful relationships. The rule for being a certain height to get on a ride is strict and is there to keep people from getting hurt, so is my claim that empathy should be the standard, understanding why someone might be hurt by something although I cannot relate to it. Using the example Expatriarch used in the video, the men who complain about child support tend to be the ones who believe that women have certain roles and the women in their lives fulfil those roles when they are with them, they stay at home or they cut back on their hours to fulfil the responsibilities of managing the home and as a result, they stop or reduce their earning capacity, in the event of separation or a divorce those same men don’t even want to pay child support for their children. When they were gaining in the home, they didn’t see anything wrong with that as they were earning the money but now they don’t want to part with said money even for the sake of their children. They are centred in their minds and the feelings of others, whether it is their former partner or children do not matter to them. I believe empathy is the solution, even when you are angry, even when you feel you have been treated unjustly, empathy calls on you to reflect on your actions and look at what you did wrong, it removes you from being the centre of the world, from being the main focus and we all need that sometimes, where there is only one empathetic person in a relationship they will most likely be taken advantage of. I refuse to have meaningful relationships with people who do not show empathy, that should be the standard and it is for me.

[@zacharybosley1935]

@deanandruth7439 I sincerely appreciate your efforts to make sense of ideas here. Exp's posts always require me to try a little harder to find the most accurate words to express my ideas, and sometimes that reads as a little clumsy. This video is about the idea that men are basically trapped in a worldview that defines the world, but more specifically, their relationships, in a series of exchanges, transactions they can complete to achieve a fixed result. That worldview doesn't really do a lot for when situations break down, so guys don't have many tools for that situation kinda by design. When I said what I said in my previous comment, I was expressing frustration at the idea that even adhering to the standard of being empathetic is, by definition, a transaction. It's a safety gate to prevent harm, but by definition it is a standard that must be reached before anyone is considered worthy of participation in acceptable society. Call it a moral code, a value, a standard of conduct, but that type of social function is definitionally an exchange, a contract. "You act with empathy, you're allowed to play."

[@deanandruth7439]

@@zacharybosley1935 I do not believe that there is no social contract as there must be whether it is a civilized society or not, however, I think that some contracts are less harmful than others. A contract that says that as a result of your physical capabilities or your gender or race or class, you are delegated to perform certain thankless tasks and sacrifice body and soul for no reason other than that is how it has always been and a contract that posits that you must treat others with kindness and empathy to be accepted as a part of society I believe the easier option is clear. Alright, I will personalize this to give an example, I am close to some members of my family and not others, I have family members I would consider different from me in the way they think, and don’t ascribe to the things I ascribe to but in our interactions, the care they show is evident when I need something they try their best to help me out. I am not close to one member of my family as it has been shown consistently that they do not regard my thoughts, opinions or feelings and are centred on themselves, that person isn’t cut out from society like you are implying, they have relationships with other people, their family and live their lives as they see fit and I do not think they should be, but I would advise those who are thinkers and look to grow and learn to hold that standard as a minimum. The fact that there is a contract doesn’t make it transactional or maybe it does, but with the guidelines of empathy, it favors the parties to the contract. Most people don’t commit grievous harm and hence most people are part of society to fix societal issues, it should be shown that some qualities should not be accepted such as a lack of empathy towards your close ones and society in general, I think a lack of empathy is the beginning of crimes towards others.

[@OGK-1414]

​@zacharybosley1935 more like when you act with empathy, you may not be allowed to play, but you'll understand why and save yourself anguish and potentially taking your disappointment out on others. It's not a transaction because it doesn't guarantee you anything. OC is more like saying, if there's no empathy present then there's no chance of a relationship working. Not that it will definitely work or even happen because empathy is present. I hope that helps.

[@badending2196]

Usually an absent/emotionally distant father is what leads people to crave male validation, but my case was kind of the opposite. My dad was absent a large chunk of my childhood, that made me disinterested in men's approval if not repulsed by it

[@Starburst514]

I feel like it's connected to the reading/reading and boys issue that's been growing in the last 20 years. Studies have shown reading had increased empathy results in both boys and girls at young ages. All the empathic boys and men I've met have also enjoyed reading, from as just a slight hobby to being total bookworms

[@01watercress]

That seems to explain the rampant use of prostitutes. Its been described to me - by men - as the only honest 'relationship' out there.

[@MarioMario-vy4bi]

I’m still not sure why they’re illegal

[@annnee6818]

​@@MarioMario-vy4bi because it's kinda gross?😂

[@xtinkerbellax3]

Honestly I often wonder why men dont use prostitutes more, that way they can get exactly what they want. I guess they cant get past having to pay for it?

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@annnee6818 gross?

[@WhichDoctor1]

@@annnee6818 lots of jobs are kinda gross. But are still totally legal

[@darkvalkyrie5366]

It's not a void when women decenter men, it's freedom and relief. I subscribed and I appreciete your videos.

[@neurodivergentpixi6736]

My mom's love has always been transactional with me(daughter), and unconditional with my brother.... I thankfully, after 10 years of being married to a covert narcissist man, I found the love of my life who is the most genuinely empathic man I've ever met.

[@dylanakent]

Why do men only care about women if she's THEIR wife, mother, sister, daughter, niece etc. They can't decouple from OWNERSHIP. Care about women because it's the CORRECT thing for HUMANITY. That's the only reason you need. You don't have to know her, be related to her in any way - care because your empathy benefits us all.

[@wormrocket]

even sometimes, some men don’t even care at all. they still see them as ‘women’.

[@destroyraiden]

but the problem is the entomology of human is belonging to men aka males she wasn't included in the making of that word we do so now but when it was made at founding she was not so him excluding her to only care for himself is still on point and he owns her.

[@hydratejsn]

​@@destroyraiden in my language the word human isn't tied to one specific sex, in a neighbouring language human is literally a feminine word, yet what op writes still holds true here. The problem is elsewhere.

[@zacharybosley1935]

"Do this because it's the right thing to do," is not the argument that gave us abolition. It's not even the argument that gave us sufferage. Why would that be an argument that works here?

[@f.monster471]

They don´t. They don´t value unconditional love. They prefer transactional Love, like they have learned it. So when they "own" somebody, they get more unconditional Love. Usually most men don´t learn, before their first own child, to give unconditional love. Even then they are likely to teach their children transactional Love.

[@Zephirite.]

It’s always “How to Get the Girl”, never “What to Give the Girl”. (Emotionally, not materially) So many men want some secret formula for how to procure a girlfriend, which never works because women aren’t a collective. And it’s never about how they would treat their girlfriend, only that they should have one. Any will do.

[@domtekos7761]

Bingo! All the male media was about how to get laid, how to pick up girls, how to get a GF. Contrast to the other genders media which is all about how to please men and be their dream partner and how to male them happy and fulfilled/how to best serve them.

[@btoiscool]

Have you ever bothered asking a group of men why this is

[@OMARANT100]

This messaging only lands with people that are already on board with you. The men that need to hear this information will be disgusted by how you're talking. Hell, I AGREE with you, and I have to push down my revulsion at the outro.

[@rolfebowers2826]

Yeah😂 we can’t be emotionally open and strong at the same time!

[@ak5659]

Gay male here and I have to agree. Most of the men who need to hear these things will last about 30 seconds before going to another vid. I'm trying to figure out what it is that's so offputting, but so far I have nothing.

[@bluester7177]

@@rolfebowers2826 Being emotionally open is a strength.

[@btoiscool]

​@@ak5659talking down to someone while they have an experience that has traumatized them is not going to work. Imagine getting scolded for being neglected and abused as a child (that is the majority of the experience for these men let's be so for real here), feeling like the world has slated you, and then some random balding man with a legion of women telling you that you're the problem, you're not going to listen to that 😂

[@viviand9493]

So glad I’m never wed, never bred. The older I get, the more validating my lifestyle is. I feel sorry for those women who burn to have babies- I never had that burden but it’s tough in this world

[@freedomishavingachoice3020]

I got beyond lucky, and I completely understand anyone not waiting on my "good guy" miracles. He knows I'm never trying again if anything ever happens to him. I'll get dogs the rest of my life and feel more heard and appreciated than I have from men who constantly wonder what benefit they're going to receive from listening to me. I have two guy friends that would never expect any transactions from me to be cared for. Two, out of a lifetime of seeking friends. They are absolutely out there but omg. I'll never get as lucky as I did with my current partner, and I would encourage all women to seek happiness in solitude so we just don't have to caregive to gain self-worth. Men's issues can't be fixed by caregiving women, when the issue is they can't emotionally care for themselves. That's a system doomed to make women always fix the issue for them. Teach a man to "emotional labor" and he won't need the emotional validation from a caregiver to feel valuable.

[@ZipMapp]

​@@freedomishavingachoice3020 What you describe is nihilistic in essence. Especially "So we don't have to caregive to feel worth" is the exact equivalent of "So we don't have to provide to feel worth" from the other side. The thing is, no one forces you to reproduce, you don't deem your genes good enough? Your choice. But traditional roles are a clear path to worth because it is an effective contribution. Before you either caregive for others, or work for others (your children most of the time) you're only really living for yourself, in that you don 't understand sacrifice. Passing down your genes is by essence a sacrifice.

[@freedomishavingachoice3020]

@ZipMapp fear of identity is not an effective nor efficient long-term means of a legacy. For example, giving birth to Ted Bundy did not make his mother's life better. Providing for Ted Bundy as a baby did not give Ted's father a legacy he ever wanted. It's flawed to desire tradition instead of desiring unconditional love from who we choose to give time to.

[@ZipMapp]

@@freedomishavingachoice3020 Yeah you use the 1% example that goes around the 99% overwhelming evidence.

[@Lu-gw9ni]

I was loved by my dad growing up and this is probably the reason why there has never lacked any loving men in my life. I never had a scarcity mentality and that helped and helps me immensely in dealing with men.

[@natcl9974]

This explains a lot. How they care so much about male validation because of their fathers scarcity that made them hungry for attention and get it in anyway

[@ak5659]

Far more often than not there are consequences to not caring about male validity.

[@natcl9974]

@ what consequences?

[@InternetNonsense]

@@natcl9974 Probably their made up hierarchy pecking order piss contests that competes on who can act least like a functional social human being. Why do you think most mega CEOs and men in charge are psychopaths and other antisocial types? Why if you repackage self-presentation as " how to play others", suddenly they're interested? If they refuse to play the game other crabs in the bucket get mad they have to be miserable alone and oust him, try to take down and humiliate him. They really hate the "not all men" that they later use as crutches in arguments. They're like ouroboros eating each other, sadly taking everything and everyone else down with them too in their self-destruction and humiliation olympics. That's why men are usually such gigantic pickmes looking for approval of other males as opposed to females as any other more rational species would.

[@sirverbalot]

I can't help but believe that the scarcity is socialized to be intentional. Momentous achievements, exceptional prowess, hard work, and great sacrifice are generally circumstances that result in praise for most men. In my opinion, it's a form of social conditioning to encourage men to contribute (or at least take action) in some way.

[@ak5659]

@@natcl9974 Exclusion from the group which results in less information shared, fewer contacts made, less support if/when needed. He's not told the 'tips & tricks' of whatever the system/task at hand is. Therefore everything takes longer and requires more effort. This results in a greatly increased chance of an "I don't know" if asked, "Do you know a good __insert profession here___".

[@Blue2x2x]

Well said. I fear boys (some as young as 8 years) of today getting fed transaction love or nothing "lessons" from extreme personalities like Andrew Tate, and Jordan Peterson. That these boys are getting set for failure as teens and adults. Not able to handle and accept to grow and improve as a person when things doesn't go their way. Leading to anger, hate, depression, to taking ones own life. We need to bring back that positive male role model to the spotlight. That tells not just boys, but also men there's a better way to life.

[@ak5659]

Yeah, something has changed in society. When I was growing up guys like Tate would've laughed at and blown off. I can't grasp how anyone can take them seriously.

[@btoiscool]

The reason why they disappeared is because they were deemed unnecessary by the same society that focused on empowering women and girls no matter what

[@atomicjulie7216]

Have you considered the importance of touch in learning empathy, especially during puberty? During puberty, boys are typically removed from access to comforting touch. [Don't hug mom - that's a baby thing. Don't touch guys, it's gay.] The only touch they have left is violence [sports or combat] and sex [thus dumping ALL positive physical interaction on a female partner, if they can get one]. Lack of touch is used to "toughen men up", but is also very damaging in the empathy department. I'd love to hear what you think on this.

[@punksoab]

Would explain a lot about me, actually. After dinner, I would give my mom and dad both a kiss and thank them. My mom and dad would demand (with threats of nuclear retaliation) a kiss and a hug and a "duerme con dios" before bed. I genuinely think the only time I didn't get a hug and kiss from mom and dad every morning and night was when they went to North Brazil and I stayed in South Brazil with my family (it wasn't a kid friendly resort and I was more interested in chilling with the family I rarely got to see). I can understand this notion. I'm not gonna say I'm 100% empathetic because if you genuinely bring something on yourself like getting expelled for cheating or going to jail for violent crimes, I find it impossible to empathize. But a lot of people that haven't been held and kissed and loved views love as a currency. Like you have a finite amount of love in your heart and if you don't get a return on your investment that makes you a "simp." Very astute observation. I originally blamed the lack of mental health support and constructive emotional coping mechanisms in childhood and early adolescent, but your theory m8ght actually hold more water

[@atomicjulie7216]

@@punksoab I think it's one factor among many - I also think reading books as a child is a factor in developing empathy. As to the physical side, in ancient times, when men were constantly expected to fight for things, and kill, limiting empathy was probably a survival tactic. We just need to move past it.

[@btoiscool]

​@@atomicjulie7216that would require the caretakers of boys to actually not neglect them

[@atomicjulie7216]

@@btoiscool Sadly, very true.

[@linrook6459]

My husband used to act this way. Never telling me how he really felt. Once he got over that we ended up talking/texting on the phone all the time. It’s been years and we still talk for hours.

[@TygerTigerable]

I know someone who works at an adult store - one of the most common answers straight men give when they are offered help is "yeah I'd like something my wife would like". And first you have to laugh at how ridiculous it is to be asking and implying a stranger knows your wife better than you, but second you have to cry because upon further questions it becomes startlingly clear they don't even ASK first. They have NO idea what makes their wives happy. They often buy some ridiculous thing that reflects their own insecurities (big, showy, speed demon) and when they return it are either showing up alone and angry or with their embarrassed and frustrated wives. My friend makes sure to talk to them as a couple, does their best to diffuse frustration and work on finding solutions. Because of this approach, they're very well trusted and have saved/solved a lot of relationships. I am begging them to do a podcast about approaching bedroom needs, the world (according to satisfaction surveys) needs it.

[@thewisdomdivatv]

I only saw my father once during childhood and that was when I was 16 for about 10 minutes. I didn’t see him again until my mid 40’s and he was like Hey! How you been, good to see you! Never anything deeper than that and to this day (I’m 54) I don’t think it has occurred to him that he owes me anything more than that because how would being more engaged benefit him? He has a younger wife to take care of him so a deeper relationship with me will only cause him to reflect on how being absent from my life negatively impacted me. Why bother with such unpleasantries that (he thinks) would only benefit me?

[@Echo81Rumple83]

This video and the content creator you mentioned needs to go VIRAL. These resources could've helped disillusioned young men to vote for a woman who cares for everyone instead of a monster who only cares for itself and its loyalists until they're no longer useful to it.

[@durfdurffigan8680]

She don't care about Palestinians, though.

[@durfdurffigan8680]

nor people who want healthcare in her country.

[@bdott1538]

@@durfdurffigan8680she cares more about Palestinians than the guy who got elected. And she also cares about Ukranians and poor people.

[@anetak.9494]

Ohhhhh so by this theory... if men experienced unconditional love from the mother when they were children, could it be that this is exactly why they expect it from all the women in their life? No matter how bad they eff up, the woman will always stick by his side?

[@zacharybosley1935]

If that were the case, then why would their default assumption of the women around them be entitlement? If it were free and unconditional, there'd be no need to maintain the relationship at all If they were shown unconditional love from anyone but their mother, it might alter the dynamic somewhat, but at the end of the day, men are taught that building relationships requires earning affection, and that love has a price tag that varies from woman to woman. Thats where the whole gold-digger argument is rooted in, I think, the idea that men aren't themselves considered worthy of love unless they meet some standard to earn it.

[@anetak.9494]

@zacharybosley1935 not at all. Your arguments don't make sense. Men grow up experiencing the love from their mother (granted, not every man is that lucky to have a loving mother) and then realise in adulthood that other women do not give them the same level of love. What you are also confusing is that "love" doesn't equal access (to women's tike, bodies, resources etc). The entitlement you describe here is because of the unequal distribution of wealth between women and men due to a world and systems which men created that only benefitted men. Since money means survival, for some women survival means transacting precious resources for that money.

[@zacharybosley1935]

where I'm finding concern in your theory is the idea that men expect love unconditionally, mirroring that which was given to them but their mothers. If that were the case, then the default excuse men give when relationships collapse wouldn't be "women aren't fulfilling their end of the bargain." Because if it's a bargain, then there are definitionally conditions on love.

[@PLoveBExclusives]

​​@@zacharybosley1935 Men mistreat women, even their own moms, even when they show men unconditional love. Men need to experience EMPATHY from other MEN. Men are the ones whose affection requires some type of price tag. Then they project that onto women. Men are the ones who put those standards in place. Women didn't do that. All women want from men is empathy , partnership, and being seen as and treated like a human being. Women only require financial stability because men stripped women of their rights to access to financial stability and then used it as a form of control. "The provider" archetype and "cost" to which you are referring was something created by men. Women have always been the property of men. Fathers basically selling their daughters off to financially affluent and stable men. Men are the ones who taught other men that in order for them to be considered men and to have value, they would need a woman and kids and the money to provide for those women and kids. Women didn't make up these rules. This is something men need to handle on their own because women are tired, especially of being blamed for beliefs and symptoms of the patriarchy when women literally had no rights to have anything to do with it.

[@RanchoSantaAnadelChino]

Parent-child relationships tend to be pretty toxic though. No surprise from 1 person being forced to be there.

[@imdani4997]

I don't remember where I heard it but someone said "men aren't more logical. they're just lacking empathy" and it's kinda an eye opener. I've always thought it's because they don't care about things that won't affect them but this could be the main thing that lead to that. Also, I hope people don't take a mother's love for granted and keep seeking father's just because mother's love is abundant

[@SarahD-s4y]

Not all men need to hustle harder but they do need to learn to have more empathy, they need to have one or the other.

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@SarahD-s4y some men do need to hustle harder? Wait Some men don't need to have more empathy if they hustle hard enough?

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@SharinIsKaryn should they develop empathy for the sake of the individual or the sake of humanity?

[@veebliss1266]

@@zacharybosley1935humanity that’s why the world is SHIT. Everyone thinks it’s cool to be crazy or an asshole

[@heidim7732]

@@zacharybosley1935 If a man wants a relationship with an individual woman, he should probably have empathy for her, her emotions and needs. It would be really weird if a man had actual empathy for humanity but viewed his romantic relationship as transactional. It would seem more like his care and concern for humanity was performative, or an excuse for his neglect of that primary relationship.

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@heidim7732 actual empathy? I may be missing some key context, but what is Actual Empathy?

[@sk-ss1nu]

This video resonates with my experience. Most men provide with the expectation of getting something, mostly that something is getting to flaunt you and your achievements or getting to control you. My father's love and attention would fall when my grades fell (when I was not top of my class but still doing above average). My husband could not digest the fact that I did not want his money. After facing a lot of bad behaviour from him, I agreed to take some money from him on the advice of other women (men need to be providers etc.). He is so transactional, over time I realised, he wants me to take money from him and be ok with him making decisions for me, with him cheating etc. And he still does not understand that a healthy relationship is where you simply care about each other. Yes, I am leaving him. But I don't have hope for another relationship with a man. It would be a miracle if I get to be in a healthy relationship with a man. I am planning my life without men now. I am aligning with my goals, my interests, with all the things that bring me happiness and nurturing my relationships with women (women in my family, friends). Men are very difficult to understand, very complicated. P.S.- I still love my father.

[@iaf4454]

Go to therapy dear bc eventhough you know how the male mind is working some men will see you, analize you, and prey on you (especially if your father had a transactional mind) Men are predators, their mind is transactional and have little empathy. they believe women are objects that can be bought. You dont have to tell them otherwise just get richer and richer, take their money and build your life without them. Patriacal society can really affect you psycologically and emotionally, and fathers can guide you into being safe or make you a prey for other men. Be safe be smart!!!

[@scotburns3991]

My marriage is ending after 27 years, precisely because my wife is not happy. I thought we were 'good' because when she expressed a need, I did my best to fulfil that. Totally transactional. Totally normal (or so I thought). When she told me it was over, I cried a bunch, but I accepted that her right to happiness trumped my need for validation. So many of my friends and co-workers are confused, indignant, or downright mad that I am 'rolling over' and not 'fighting for her'. We did couples therapy. Years of it. A succession of counsellors told her that HER expectations were too high. I told them to change careers. My wife (sorry for the possessive language, but it's what I know) is a human being, entitled to pursue happiness and fulfilment. Standing in the way of that, out of some ego-driven need to 'be the man' would be tantamount to coercive control. I married my best friend. I'm hopeful we will be friends for life, even if we were only lovers for a while.

[@kittysassafras]

I’m grateful that I had a loving father who never told me I couldn’t do something or have something because I was a girl. He wasn’t perfect by any means, but in a lot of ways he was a model of positive masculinity. When I was a kid, I didn’t realize how rare that was.

[@VioletFlame-Ivy]

Thank you so much for this video, if more men were understanding like you, the 4b movement wouldn't be needed at all ❤ I appreciate your content so much.

[@ZipMapp]

Please keep the movement and refrain from having children. The thrash takes itself out.

[@VioletFlame-Ivy]

@ZipMapp Are you calling yourself trash? 🗑️

[@ZipMapp]

@@VioletFlame-Ivy All you found was "mirror"? Speaks of how boring you are.

[@EgoPlacebo]

so glad I have an empathetic father :)

[@gumbilicious1]

The women that raised me taught me not to expect anything from anyone and my emotions don’t matter. Asking for empathy has never worked for me, so if I am giving someone else life advice why would I tell them something I don’t follow myself? No one cares about you, so you better figure things out yourself, that is my experience. Then I hear: why don’t men have empathy? I don’t understand this idealized empathy because it doesn’t exist for me. Furthermore I’d say women get far more ‘empathy’, but it is mostly fake concern with no meaningful content behind it. At least no one cares about me and they act like it, no one cares about women but they act like they do and i personally see that as being worse So that is straight from a man who doesn’t show empathy really, instead I try to limit as much negative emotion I as can, anonymously give without expecting anything in return, be courteous even when I can justify being petty, redirect negative energy into constructive acts, try listen more than I talk, try to understand when I listen, and make a habit in interpreting what I hear in the most charitable way rather than the most negative way. I would prefer to treat people better than I am treated, because I don’t want people to feel as bad as I do

[@judithpriestess7781]

De-centering men (and deconstructing from oppressive, misogynistic organized religion) is THE most worthwhile endeavor for a girl or woman. The job of reforming toxic male programming belongs to the very few "Good men", who've cared enough to do the work, as this creator seems to be doing. They need to clean this shit up.

[@angelineblue]

I agree!

[@zacharybosley1935]

why? In the grand feminist project, what makes it the man's responsibility to go recruiting?

[@helenanilsson5666]

@@zacharybosley1935 Because wives and girlfriends can't mother their male partners into becoming good people. I'm not sure what "feminist project" you're thinking of, the video is about the mindset of men. Women can't fix that. Especially when the men who are deeply stuck in this mindset barely see women as human beings. They need male role models that can teach them that men can have empathy.

[@fdscrl6016]

​@@zacharybosley1935 because it is not the woman's responsability to fix it... Not saying i agree personally but it does have some merit

[@hugofontes5708]

​@@zacharybosley1935 dude, I see you don't care, but some men do think these shitty ways are shitty. It's literally up to us to have any particular attitude in our own lives, of course this is up to men

[@CordeliaWagner1999]

Talk about child support BEFORE breeding. Ask critical. Educate yourselfes about the laws of your country TOGETHER. If he doesn't want that, you know he is not worth spreading his genes.

[@odothedoll2738]

This is great advice but for the love of god don’t call it breeding

[@qualitymcbro8452]

It's been less than a year since I've actually strongly liked all of my friends rather than just enjoyed their company (in some cases I quite strongly disliked them as people). That's because our relationships were transactional (a pretty unpleasant person will usually still be a superficially good friend) and I was just okay with that. Note: if I now count up my friends, 3 of them are masc, and only one of those is another cis man. That's quite a revelation to have had. I mean, I watch these videos specifically because occasionally I have revelations like that, but damn.

[@lansvance4870]

Those are some interesting observations! I never been friends with people I dislike as people… even if they treat me well 😮 the things you mention in this comment never would have crossed my mind tbh,

[@Nikitomate]

My dad loved us unconditional and I could see how he enjoyed spending time with his daughters and his pride in our achievements. What I couldn't see was the underlying sadness and depression, that led to his early death. He taught me a lot (I still change the bedsheets the way he showed me), showed me how to tread others with kindness and to always extend a helping hand to those in need and he ultimately showed me, what a good man looked like. So my husband is a lot like him. Devoted to his family, loyal and loving, likes to cook and play games together. I still miss my dad a lot. I know, he would have adored his grandchildren and been proud of his daughters finding good, loving men and carving their own paths.

[@Volgotha]

You just described intermittent reinforcement, THE abuse tactic abusers use to get women, and why she can't "just leave".

[@down-to-earth-mystery-school]

that describes my 21 year relationship with an abusive man, sometimes he was really great, until he wasn't

[@cursedepub]

5:35 That book author had us in the first half... i think that is the hard thing about the manosphere, that they do touch on some ACTUAL realities of the world, but then prescribe the completely WRONG approach to mend them. Many people have said incel/pickup artist/manosphere creators are scammers because thsis. As a trans man, I have had a really interesting experience internalising both toxic masculinity and misogyny in my formative years. One thing being trans did for me was that at a young age I ended up questioning everything we are taught about binary gender and have had to work hard to discover what being a man means TO ME, what kind of man I am regardless of what other men look or act like, etc., what traits I want to cultivate whether or not they are considered masculine or feminine. One last note is that women are definitely not inherently more emotionally intelligent or empathetic than men - it is a skill that one learns and exercises. My experience as someone who was "raised as" a girl, has definitely been that emotional intelligence is something I have had to keep practicing in order to build. Often I have had to go against the grain of my upbringing and social norms in order to do so. I agree and wish more men would model real compassion and care for others so that it is not as daunting.

[@Shireke01]

Brother this is an excellent video and this is what we men should always be talking about with our peers, since they don't listen to the women in their lives

[@erik9420]

Purely rational argument for empathy: Empathy is an instinct that all humans are born with. We can choose to either foster or suppress it in ourselves. It is impossible to have fulfilling relationships without a sense of empathy. It is impossible to be happy without fulfilling relationships. Therefore, I choose to foster my sense of empathy. Note the subtle but important distinction between "fostering a sense of empathy" and "faking a sense of empathy" - these are not the same.

[@Anemonemarie]

I think you can fake it till you make it though. Pretend to be empathetic until it just becomes part of your personality and then you start doing it for real without even realizing

[@iasked9392]

​@@Anemonemarieso like psycopaths/socipaths OR (big or) people who are neurodivergents?

[@hotworlds]

The whole hustle culture argument falls apart when you consider all the broke guys drowning in women just because they're self confident and good in bed. I knew a guy in college who was literally homeless and just crashed on couches until he met girls at clubs and moved in for a few weeks and moved on. Very transactional but the other way around 😂

[@AM-sw9di]

Something i notice in my male partner's over the years is the need to be my 'everything', and when he does not feel like i am his 'everything' then things become dysfunctional. Ive been with men who have become controlling and abusive in response to that, and others who respect me but become wracked with anxiety and their internalised feelinsg around it start affecting their self worth. Some men react by trying to take away my freedom, and others try to be my freedom and feel like inadequate men when they cant 'provide' this for me. It's really hard to talk to them about it if they are willing to because the programming goes deep, its hard to escape our roles and see eachother outside of them. I know a part of me expects him to provide a lot for me, but when i question that in myself and try to break away from that i expect he will be happy, but it only causes him to becone anxious and try to provide more.

[@katzea.a7880]

You might want to address all of this to him face to face in order to both of you becoming conscious of what you think and feel, if you haven't done that ofc and I can easily see that such conversation could not bear a breakaway from this cycle because of what you mention, this deep conditioning

[@IndigoCloudkitty]

I agree with this as I've experienced it lol one of my exes was upset and TOLD ME that he was angry that he had no way of getting me to do what he wanted because he had nothing over my head. Couldn't use money, sex, a living arrangement, nothing, to get me to do what he wanted and he TOLD ME THIS BOTHERED HIM!!! A lot of men do NOT want you to have your own life, money, friends, hobbies (anything good outside of him) because they can't control you as easily. Best way to combat that is just to not give them any leverage or just not date them because that would be easier lol

[@NobodyImporttant]

You worded all of this so well and articulately! You don’t speak with a harsh or contemptuous tone, and you get straight the point

[@noeraldinkabam]

They understand what hurts them so I call bs on them not getting the pain of others.

[@MerandaYt]

They talk about how men are dtarved of love, but talk about the women who are starved of the love of their fathers and brothers to the point where they end up with horrible partners...

[@andrewgray573]

Seems to me it's two sides of the same coin. Maybe that's the point here. We're all living without emotional connection, then we wonder why everything's going so poorly.

[@MerandaYt]

@@andrewgray573 I agree

[@voidify3]

You know it occurs to me that even though Cat’s in the Cradle is a deeply moving piece of art that makes me cry every time I hear it, it’s a demonstration of this transactional attitude that this society teaches men. The moral of the story is “if you don’t spend time with your kids when they’re young they won’t want to spend time with you when you’re old”. Transactional. It’s kind of like that thing where they make conservatives care about the climate by phrasing it as “defend our resources”. Making men see reason in caring about their kids by making it fit into the logic they already understand

[@hammysan2090]

This describes my dad and my brother perfectly. It's so hard to tell them anything and they think They're always right. They hurt my mom with their uncaring words while not understanding what they did wrong when confronted about it.

[@stephaniepaints]

I was very lucky to be loved unconditionally by an amazing man for a long time, until he passed away. It does make sense, he had a very compassionate, artistic father who was abused at times growing up and thus decided he never wanted his kids to feel unloved. He broke the chain of transactional relating, because he saw how damaging it could be at it's worst. He gave his family space to be who they wanted without judgement, and was generally just a really wise person. Then that love grew and spread out to many other people, including myself. When he broke the cycle, he probably never consciously realized how it would set the stage for countless people throughout future history to benefit from that empathy too. I think for any man to be self-aware enough to make a change like that, having lived his whole life seeing things differently, it would be challenging, but not 100 percent impossible. Still, I'd recommend never involving yourself as a woman with a man who currently struggles with empathy. It's SO critical to be with a partner who loves you unconditionally, for so many reasons, not least of all ....your safety. Someone who cannot show empathy, can never guarantee you will be safe from them.

[@SkunkWerks7]

I confess I'd never really thought of this before, but yes, my relationship with my father was excessively transactional. Then again, I reached a point early on in life where I resented that zero sum nonsense and purposely began tuning myself in the opposite direction. Years on it's still a work in progress, but this gave me another tool to think about it critically.

[@roninboxers]

This is heartbreaking. But interesting that all the most empathic men i know were raised by women with no father in the picture.

[@Lutoria99]

We need more men like this for young boys and men to learn from

[@amandasutton3717]

Boys, from a very young age, are taught that empathy doesn't serve them, and it's more feminine. Therefore they don't need it, and that it should even be denigrated. It takes work to undo that early socialization, but it's rewarding due to having better quality relationships. Most men are not willing to do this work, though, and just expect women around them to do their emotional processing and modulation for them.

[@sanjanamukherjee9540]

You have missed the main point of WHY people crave for validation from others. It is because as kids ,we don't have a strong sense of self. We don't know who we are ,what we're worth. So we look to others to tell us if we are doing fine or not. At older ages , we understand who we are, form a self identity and don't need anybody else anymore to guide us. We set out own goals and we ourselves decide how well we have done and how important or unimportant everything is. We become the final judge of everything in our lives .

[@corrietrue6347]

The men I have had the closest to me in life have not been this way, but that’s because I won’t accept less. I can name at least 4 guys around my age plus my dad, who genuinely care about other people and would give of themselves to make sure the other person is doing well. I trust these guys endlessly and know that they are safe, good people. Anything less than this, and the person is going to be bad and actively causing harm, or neutral and passively causing harm.

[@izzy1356]

Huh. Well, this definitely opened my eyes up to the growing distance between my dad and I growing up. He's the kind of man whose idea of showing care/love is spending money and buying something (even if it's not necessarily what's wanted/needed) whenever he felt like it. Transactional in a literal sense, and his ideas of punishment were to threaten to take/break those gifts since they were technically *"his"* financially. Never mine. But once I turned 18 and was gradually able to just buy my own things or save up for fun solo events, our relationship pretty much morphed into "distant roommates who just so happen to be blood related." We both pay bills and rent... And that's kind of it, and neither of us are particularly interested in bonding beyond that. It never really clicked until now just *how* deep-seated the transactional nature of our bond was until the transaction aspect disappeared with my financial independence. Outside of that... There's just *nothing* beyond years of being screamed at, getting items slapped out of my hands, or threatened to be homeless if I forgot to do something. I appreciate what he *has* done for me of course, but... What I needed was a dad, not an abusive finance advisor.

[@chapachuu]

My brother and a couple guys who are my friends escaped their sex’s low empathy. I wish more men were like them. The world would be a much better place.