Why do most Christians resist Calvinism?

Dr. Leighton Flowers, Director of Evangelism and Apologetics for Texas Baptists, answers the question, "Why do most Christians resist Calvinism" by looking at how prominent Calvinists have answered that question.
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[@asg8648]

I gave my heart to Jesus 40 years ago, and I have been a diligent student of the word every since. It amazes me how complicated people make the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can always interpret the word the way that you think it should go, and I have been studying Calvinism with an open mind and heart, and have found it contrary to the word of God when you put it all together this is the way I see it.

[@hanssvineklev648]

@asg8648. I gave in to Calvinism about 40 years ago. I came in kicking and screaming. My personality was dead set against yielding control…even to God. But, as a result, he filled my heart with a joy and a humility I didn’t have before. I worshiped with a renewed vigor. I described it as being born again…again. It was the pinnacle experience of my entire existence. Were it not for that magical interruption in my life, I sincerely doubt that I would still be in the faith today. Or if I were, it would be a going-through-the-motions sort of religious life. Like Spurgeon, I define Calvinism as just another name for the Gospel. It was difficult for me in the beginning. Now, I see it dripping from every page of Scripture. Now, for the life of me, I cannot see how anybody cannot see it. It’s there in distinct black and white, in sharp focus, no vagueness, no shades of gray. I believe in it, not only because of its great shining glory, its dazzling light, but because by that light I am able to see everything else with understanding. (Apologies to C.S. Lewis.) Unlike you, I did not study it with an open mind. It was opened up to me. In my life, I have found nothing so elegant, so beautiful, so redolent of the gospel of Christ. I have no idea whatsoever why your experience has been different from mine. I pray that the rod and staff of the Lord Jesus Christ, the good shepherd of the sheep, will comfort you. That he will see you struggling and drop everything to seek you out and extricate you from whatever bramble is keeping you from following the flock as fully as you might. Over and over and over again, he has sought me out and returned me to the right path. What a wonderful Savior we serve!

[@johncmeade]

I have had the opposite experience. The more diligently I study the word, the more calvinisyic i become.

[@artifacthunter1472]

You cannot give your heart to a Godwho already owns it have you read your Bible!

[@joseywales1150]

@@hanssvineklev648 He chooses us not the other way around......I too had the same experience My God drugged me back kicking and screaming. Then when I heard Calvinism I was like yes, this is The Truth. All I want to do is His Will.

[@23045678]

@@joseywales1150 He chooses us, thereby implying that the only reason there are unsaved people is because God was like "nah, don't want them" which means that God is, by definition, partly responsible for them continuing in sin, because if he's both willing AND able to force someone into grace, then why not do it with everyone? especially when scripture says that he is "longsuffering, willing all to come to repentance".

[@bippie23456]

In my experience... I found most (not all), Calvinist/Reformed to be very arrogant, condescending, and dismissive... and they will often by their words and demeanor boast of their humility. Go back and listen to the Calvinists in this video with these words in mind!

[@SP-td9xj]

Not surprisingly, since Calvinism is based on a hateful God that they themselves act hateful, I pray they leave such a vicious belief system

[@brianpaul98]

Why do you think John MacArthur had to write a study Bible??? Because us morons can't figure it out unless someone super intelligent like him ordained by God himself can explain it to us poor stupid individuals... What a detestable disgusting human being to be confusing people about their salvation...

[@inferno0020]

My impression is that Christians didn't reject Calvinism; Calvinists rejected most Christians.

[@rayhoskins4478]

Thank you. I needed this. I just left a Baptist church where I found out the pastor is a Calvinist. He had me and my family questioning our salvation or even if we could be saved at all.

[@halodisciple8459]

The truth is God invites all to come to Him and has outlined what WE must do to be saved. His grace is a gift to all that exercise faith in him.

[@rayhoskins4478]

@@halodisciple8459 Yes!!! Thank you.

[@mack6429]

​@@halodisciple8459your issue is the word "we" .... "What we must do to be saved". Salvation is a act of God. He accomplishes this without your help. Salvation is a gift not something you earn or somehow contribute to, not even in some small way. It's not 99% God 1% yourself. God doesn't need or require your efforts in order to accomplish His will for you. Repentance, is a gift given from God. Belief/faith are gifted and given by God. The moment you add anything to the finished work of Christ, you have moved away from the Gospel of Grace.

[@halodisciple8459]

@@mack6429 Not true. This is Calvanist falshood.

[@toddthacker8258]

@@mack6429 Faith isn't a work, so it's not adding anything to Christ's work.

[@davidm7898]

Thank you for this!! I have been under great confusion trying to wrap my head around Calvinism. Thank you Christ for Your mercy and grace.

[@vijaykumar-cg3fl]

Praise God 🙌

[@jordanking5679]

Don’t stop here. Explore the reformed theologians both contemporary and of the past. As for today, John Piper, John MacArthur, Voddie Baucham, and RC Sproul are some good ones.

[@binusnbayothegrey]

@@jordanking5679 let him read all these people you have mentioned, he will still not be able to wrap his head around calvinism.

[@steveobrien3673]

Because it’s so ridiculous

[@Sirach144]

@@jordanking5679 these are MEN. Reformed theology places way too much emphasis on reformers and teachers and creeds and confessions and men. Too much that you quote them more than the Bible.

[@PETERJOHN101]

Have you noticed how important it is for Calvinists to spread their theology, as if these doctrines are the Gospel? In fact, it's a whole other gospel.

[@mylifeintheusa4720]

If Calvinism is another gospel and Calvinists are correct then all non Calvinists are lost. If you believe somebody to be wrong and you are right you do everything to convince them. There are a lot of false conversions in many churches because people "ask Jesus into their heart" (a term not found in scripture) and then continue to live a life of rebellion against God. Yet, they believe they are saved without showing any fruit.

[@Gablesman888]

A very great Baptist, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, said that Calvinism is simply historical orthodox Christianity. It is what the original Christians believed. So many modern Christians, especially American Christians, are lazy bums when it comes to the deep study of God's word. They want that quick fix, then out the church and let's head for lunch. These Christians want refrigerator magnet Christianity then wonder why young people have for the most part walked out of the Church. Calvinism is taught in both the OT and NT. Arminianism did not occur until the 1500's, unless you want to count the ancient Pharisees and Judaizers. The chain of custody runs from the Lord's ascension through today. The early Church fathers like Chrysostom, Athanasius, Anselm, Polycarp, etc., believed in the doctrines of grace long before Augustine, Luther, Calvin, and Edwards came along. Having been a Southern Baptist some time ago, I really think Flowers is trying to save his job and trying to preserve in his denomination its present marketable, sellable pablum that is the mainstay of so many Baptist churches (not all of them, of course).

[@endtimesareuponus8930]

@@Gablesman888 Calvinism is clearly Satinism

[@Gablesman888]

@@endtimesareuponus8930 While not holding myself out as a fashion expert, I would have to say that I do not see a significant move by either Arminians or Augustinians (the proper term) to wear satin. Of course, and not to mention any names now (LOL), I do know that there are Arminians and their theologically incestuous fellow travelers, the Provisionists, who do not hold themselves out to be great spellers of the King's english. Now assuming you have run to your dictionary and have now made peace with the language, then make peace with your God. It was a Baptist (adored by a certain Dr. Flowers) who said: "Calvinism is simply biblical Christianity". It is what the original Christians believed. Have you carefully read these people? The first and second century Christians? Not an Arminian or Provisionist to be seen in the bunch. "Calvinism did not spring from Calvin. We believe that it sprang from the Founder of all truth." " It is no novelty, then, that I am preaching; no new doctrine. I love to proclaim these strong old doctrines, that are called by nickname Calvinism, but which are surely and verily the revealed truth of God as it is in Christ Jesus." Spurgeon. Arminianism is a fairly new error in Church history unless one wants to count the Judaizers and Pharisees.

[@brianjones7660]

@@mylifeintheusa4720 Trinity and Rapture are also terms nowhere in Scripture....

[@jonathanmcentire970]

Calvinists: "Non-Calvinists are arrogant!" Also Calvinists: "Non-Calvinists don't believe like we do because they're uneducated."

[@uncasunga1800]

You dont know any Calvinists just reatarrd strawmen like this totally inaccurate caveman level video here

[@beautifulmind6697]

Also Calvinist: Non Calvinist cant believe like we do because they aren't elected to do so! Hee hee hee Demonic doctrine

[@dannysolo88]

Calvinist version of John 3:16 - “For God so loved the elect, that He sent His one and only Son, so that when the predestined to salvation believe in Him, (even though they were already arbitrarily saved to begin with) shall not perish but have everlasting life.”

[@westb1028]

@@beautifulmind6697 smart move calling scripture demonic… you realize election is a FACT in scripture!? Lol

[@westb1028]

@@dannysolo88 So what was God talking about when he said he elected those who are saved? Lol come on!

[@dorianjohnson8480]

“God is sovereign over who sees his sovereignty.” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Corbs_]

Haha, wow

[@yohanayusuf4713]

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 2:11‭-‬14 KJV

[@bigdogboos1]

@@yohanayusuf4713 is there something that scripture was suppose to defend or reproof?

[@robanddawnramcharan6408]

More interesting question: Why is it so important to Calvinist what the reprobates (who can't benefit from belief in Calvinism anyway) think?

[@harrygarris6921]

Good question. From a human perspective the predestination argument is entirely pointless, it's impossible for us to know whether it's true or not and has no bearing on how we should follow Christ. As far as why the ideology is important though, Calvinism seems to exist primarily to exclude people and claim theological superiority over others. Two distinctly un-Christian behaviors.

[@robanddawnramcharan6408]

@@harrygarris6921 Status anxiety? As in, "My salvation is somehow less special if there aren't a lot of people who aren't elect"? Yah. That makes sense, but I'm not feelin' the love.

[@uncasunga1800]

@@harrygarris6921 you clearly do not know any Calvinists hahahahahaha

[@uncasunga1800]

No one knows who the elect are. Why are you so obsessed with what calvinists think since you are so offended by this mysterious doctrine lol What a hypocrite!

[@robanddawnramcharan6408]

@@uncasunga1800 Maybe nobody knows who the elect are. But the Calvinists all seem to be pretty sure who they aren't.

[@peralopenaify]

JOHN CALVIN -WHEN A MAN REPLACES GOD,THAT IS A CULT. -WHEN A CHURCH IS CENTERED AROUND A MAN ,ITS A CULT. -IF BEING RIGHT WITH GOD REQUIRES ME TO BE RIGHT WITH A MAN OF GOD,THAT IS A CULT.

[@theologian1456]

Calvinists are centered around the word of God, not calvin. Calvinism is a handle like Baptist or Presbyterian. Calvinism merely denotes the doctrines of grace, which are the result of sound biblical exegesis.

[@abikinebi6235]

i once attended a calvinist school. after i bailed out, i jst thought it was some fucking cult

[@YoxxSHIxx]

@@theologian1456 nope the Bible disagrees with calvins personal interpretation of the scriptures

[@sethpawlik]

I do think that Calvinists give an unhealthy, over the top, almost worshipful view of that man born in the dark age named John Calvin.

[@myraride9563]

@@theologian1456 go back to basic bible study to understand the word plain and simple🙏

[@rodrocketon9480]

If you are in, you are in - nothing can change it. If you are out, you are out - nothing can change it. So, they say, "But believers should want to please God and obey Him." This is after they have labored and labored to convince me of Total Depravity and my complete inability to do anything good of my own volition. I have never heard a single Calvinists explain how a just God arbitrarily chooses some to go to hell WITHOUT ANY HOPE OF SALVATION. They say, "You are questioning His sovereignty." I say, "No, I am questioning your view of His character."

[@lizicadumitru9683]

I think their whole world view regarding that is that it's gracious that the Lord would save anyone because we are all damned to condemnation so in saving any that shows his glory, mercy and whatever else..?

[@skytrooper506]

I agree, I've had senior members of my church remind me of God's sovereignty when I've questioned Calvinism.

[@skytrooper506]

Total depravity huh, incapable of doing anything good? Unsaved people do good, wonderful selfless things all the time.

[@jonathandavid9720]

@@skytrooper506 of course, non-Cals believe in Gods sovereignty, just not the Cal "meticilous determinist" version.

[@rodrocketon9480]

@@lizicadumitru9683 Sure, you just gave their go-to answer - it still in no way addresses the fact that a couple holds a beautiful newborn in their arms and that baby may have been sentenced to hell by this God whose character does not fit the God of Scripture. Then of course, they take Romans 9 out of context to support their system of beliefs.

[@davidgatzke8337]

Amen I don’t know if i was blessed or cursed but I used to work with three calvinist and they would literally almost jump on me every day trying to get me to convert yet I was believer longer than all of them put together and the Bible is clear it is a covenant relationship between him and us it did make me dive deeper into the word testing what they said so my faith grew And in that i was blessed

[@rodrocketon9480]

Why would they need to get you to their side. Weren't you predestined to embrace their side?

[@brianmatthews4323]

I would have told them, "If God wanted me to be a Calvinist He would have made me one."

[@rodrocketon9480]

@@brianmatthews4323 When you think about it, why would Calvinists even argue for the TULIP? If you are not elect, you can't accept it. It you are elect, you will be overwhelmed by it at some point. Why don't they just CALM DOWN! LOL!

[@brianmatthews4323]

@@rodrocketon9480 Good point. I like what one preacher said about it. He said that if it's so complicated and difficult that most Christians aren't smart enough to understand it, no matter how long they've been saved and how much they've studied, then it probably isn't true.

[@rodrocketon9480]

@@brianmatthews4323 The best is when you go to the most known BIble verse of all, John 3:16, and point out that Jesus died for the "world." Of course the Calvinist has to uphold the "U" and "L" on that TULIP so they say, "Well, 'world' doesn't necessarily mean world." To which I say, "If I cannot be sure about the meaning of the word "world," there is absolutely no hope of understanding the word "predestined." Then they get desperate and start going into made-up stuff about God's revealed will and super double secret will.

[@milo_thatch_incarnate]

I’m a young Christian, and I have been watching so many videos from both Calvinists and Armenians about this issue, back-and-forth and back-and-forth, without being able to understand any simple and clear answer based on God‘s nature. In 15 minutes, you’ve provided a more clear and more (I believe) biblically sound answer than any other video I’ve watched. Thank you.

[@rauldelarosa2768]

BTW friend, it's spelled Arminian.

[@milo_thatch_incarnate]

@@rauldelarosa2768 Thank you! I didn't notice I'd spelled it wrong there.

[@joyson2907]

Same bro watch back 2 back

[@uncasunga1800]

This video is nothing but fake strawmen. This person clearly does not understand calvinism at all and is just so threatened by it he desperately needs to smudge it with ad hominem attacks. Nothing to very little in this vid is true.

[@rauldelarosa2768]

@@uncasunga1800 With all respect given to you, I hear that same thing from many who make Calvinism a bigger issue than it is. It's merely an overreaching and over emphasis on a certain attribute of God, forgetting he's a God of a multi faceted character and multiple attributes... And if calvinist people would simply explain what they think is being misrepresented we can talk about it. I have engaged calvinists over the years and am friends with several people in reformed theology thought and tradition.. Many of them are aware that this is an in house discussion amongst brethren and that many do grasp what Calvinism teaches and still reject Calvinism..

[@jeremiahmalsack4718]

Calvinism kept me under the weight of my sin. It told me I had no ability to accept the empowerment given to me to overcome it. It seemed my wanting to please and serve him because of his grace wasn't enough, It caused me to not believe in his continuing work in my life. I came under the assumption that since he wasn't causing me to act in such a way as to be one who was predestined to be his, I was convinced by that definition that I had no hope of being saved. It was destructive.

[@knpstrr]

Jeremiah Malsack that's an odd interpretation but I hope your are faring better in your journey!

[@jeremiahmalsack4718]

@@knpstrr I am. In the process of being sanctified.

[@backyardchickensuk2390]

Jeremiah Malsack What a strange conclusion my brother. It saddens me that you had this experience, you should have sought some theological advice from an informed person. You see, my take on all this is the hypocrisy of this fool who is so against all things Calvin that he wraps his hateful bigotry in these videos in a soft fluffy wrapper when, I suspect, this Soteriology theology is selling a shed load of books! The Calvinist preachers he calls out on here, for example, like John MacArthur, RC Sproul and John Piper would not stoop to suggesting (by association) that Flowers and his whole retinue of followers were “Racist” or presupposed to supporting “Slavery”!!!! What a terrible slur on fellow Christians and completely unfounded, I found that extremely offensive. But anyhow, I’m sorry that this has become a bit of a rant but I feel it a duty to call out falsity wherever I find it and it upsets me when it is from a, so called, man of God. “"Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:13‬ ‭ESV‬‬

[@paulb1308]

@@backyardchickensuk2390 I disagree strongly with your point. I actually never heard of any of these things until a few years ago when a pastor friend of mine who graduated from Masters talked to me about these things. This led to tons of biblical study because I had to know if this was true, I wanted to believe. Let's just say the complete opposite happened. I find it interesting that when someone rejects it or states what Calvinism actually teaches one of the go to answers is, well you don't understand, or you need to be given "theological advice from an informed person" even when you sit and lay out what they believe and they say, "yes that's correct. What Jeremiah is saying I believe is that under calvinism everything is predetermined and God who is sovereign brings it to pass. If you are not continuing in good works, or you are persistently sinning which we all do daily as humans, then it is a sign you are not saved. Jeremiah was very aware of his sin. The fact that Jeremiah would sin and God allowed it to happen coinvinced him that he was not continuing in good works and therefore was not one of the elect. Even RC Sproul dealt with this, though I find his self assuring answer to be incredibly arrogant. The Calvinist cannot know if he is truly saved as he may only be given evanescent grace. Second, If Calvinism is true then no amount of theological advice matters as God in His sovereignty determined that we should not believe Calvinism. For me to seek, desiring to know if this is true with an open heart searching the scriptures and praying God show me what is true, then for God to hide it from us flies in the face of Jesus words in Matthew 7 and other passages.

[@conncul1815]

Sounds like you didn't understand the reformed position to begin with

[@Emper0rH0rde]

Calvinism drove me away from Christianity. God was patient with me, and gently led me back. I now go to an Orthodox church, and it's the best decision I ever made.

[@h2s142]

Did God call you or did you choose God?

[@kevinjypiter6445]

@@h2s142 Both. God draws us (John 6:44) and we choose to believe (John 3:16)

[@dan-lansingmi9169]

When you read “chosen” scriptures, just substitute your thinking that it purports “chosen for “salvation” with “chosen for service”.

[@Myrdden71]

Loved the first Calvinist (don't know who he is): they reject because of ignorance and pride and arrogance. Wow, sounds pretty arrogant and prideful himself there. If we don't agree with him, we're ignorant and arrogant. How dare we!

[@jakeabbatacola5092]

The Bible says it. He’s repeating it. Cry about it.

[@Myrdden71]

@@jakeabbatacola5092 "The Bible says it." The Bible says a lot of things, that's not the point. The point is what does it MEAN. I'm guessing that you're one of those who believe that everything you think about the Bible and its meanings is the correct interpretation. At least that's how your comment sounds, with the smugness and arrogance toward your brothers and sisters in Christ who have a different view than you do. Even Peter said that some things Paul wrote were difficult to understand. Things must also be read in context (Calvinists try so hard not to do this with Romans 9, John 6, Ephesians 1, etc.) But we're so glad that you have it all perfectly down. Perhaps if you wrote a book explaining it all to the vast majority of Christians who aren't Calvinists, then we'd all understand with perfect understanding and knowledge. After all, if we're ignorant, it's because it was Sovereignly decreed, right? Perhaps He has determined for you to enlighten us. That would be great, thanks!

[@endtimesareuponus8930]

@@Myrdden71 Bible is very easy to understand. Calvinism is Satanism

[@brianmatthews4323]

@@jakeabbatacola5092 Well that wasn't arrogant at all. I have the same objection FLguy does. Why is arrogance and ignorance the only possible reasons these folks can think of for people to reject Calvinism? They don't even come up with the most obvious reason, assuming Calvinism is true, and that is that God made us reject it. I sometimes want to say something to the Calvinist like, "Did God pick out that tie you're wearing?"

[@jakeabbatacola5092]

@@brianmatthews4323 You really don’t understand Calvinism if you’re caricature is “God made them reject it.” For you, it would be good to start with the tie questions and work your way up.

[@dannymcculloch462]

"The true definition of a snob is one who craves for what separates men rather than what unites them" This quote from John Buchan sums up for me, everything that is wrong with Calvinism. Calvinism is theological snobbery, plain and simple.

[@ronashman8463]

Danny that is an excellent quote I will put in my personal "Quotable quotes" book that I have kept for years.

[@jaygee2187]

Mo Jo who is ‘we’? Please identify who you are speaking on behalf of.

[@dannymcculloch462]

What do reject Mo Jo? My opinion or Calvinism?

[@jennyp.farias8442]

Exactly. What is the point of preaching election other than to let everyone know you consider yourself “elite”? It doesn’t do anything to unite the body and definitely doesn’t draw all people to Jesus. (John 12) Jesus didn’t ask us to lift up “election/predestination”

[@jordanking5679]

So what do you say to a person who is kind, compassionate, loving, and devout in another religion?...when they come to scripture where Christ says “the only way to the Father is through me...” Do you think they use that same quote to justify that Christians craves for what separates man rather than unites them? Biblically, as a Christian you have to seee the level of division created throughout the Bible. Think of the population of humanity that weren’t God’s chosen people. With that logic, the whole Bible is Jewish snobbery followed by cultural inclusion that only started 2000 years ago? Where’s the inclusion before that? All of the Jews + Rahab’s family? Ah, I see. Now this is either man being religiously snobbish before Christ’s coming...or God’s sovereign election of who He has Chosen.

[@JewandGreek]

My answer to this question might sound simplistic, but I think we all have an innate sense of our ability to choose and thus we naturally believe that we have free will. When people try to convince us that we don't we dismiss them. That's why we reject Calvinism. It goes against every fiber or our being that tells us otherwise, and no amount of straw manning and scripture twisting can overcome that for most people.

[@JimiSurvivor]

Jew and Greek I totally agree. Determinism is not a belief one can practice.

[@jordanking5679]

Would you say that at birth we are naturally hostile to God with every fiber of our being? Would you say at birth we are innately walking in the flesh? What I’m getting at is that innate and so naturally felt does not always justify a belief as truth. This reasoning has a shared root of subjective ideology. Outside of morality being written on man’s heart and the knowledge of God’s existence perceived in the mind of man is a very debatable place. The degree to which God is sovereign is in the scripture, but by the help of the Holy Spirit we must wrestle against every freshly fiber of our being. It is too susceptible to error to deny Calvinism just based on what’s felt within us.

[@margriettalen6713]

Jesus told his disciples to “follow him “. Would he have said that if they could not choose to do that? When a Calvinist tells me that he was “chosen”, but does not know how that happened, I wonder about their Theology.

[@TheNabOwnzz]

@@margriettalen6713 Yes, because they were preordained to follow Him. It doesn't make any sense to think man can choose God by his own might; that would invalidate both divine grace and Christ's sacrifice.

[@IronSharpensIron127]

@@TheNabOwnzz faith is not a work brother

[@frame3139]

I was in Oneness Pentecostalisim for years, and when I listen to Calvinism being preached I feel the exact same thing I felt ( I get emotions can’t be trusted, by feeling I mean a sense that something isn’t right ) while listening to Oneness preachers, very little love, no grace, all messages are holiness related where there’s very little, if any grace to cover our failures. A miserable gospel who’s yoke is HARD and burden is HEAVY

[@watermelon2209]

I am a pentecostal and I never heard of the oneness pentecostalism

[@frame3139]

@@watermelon2209 then you’re not part of that sect, look it up, it’s a cult

[@watermelon2209]

@@frame3139 pentecostalism is a clut or is the oneness pentecostalism is a clutch or both?

[@watermelon2209]

@@frame3139 I found alot of different kinds of pentecostal

[@judylloyd7901]

@@JC-sj2pd It's not all grace if God chooses some people for hell!!! You can't have "predestination of the elect" without "predestination of the damned!"

[@OneOuttaOne]

The older I get, the more compassionate I become to most people (more tame in my approach if you will). But also the older I get, the more I loathe Calvinism. It’s all of the qualities of people that most irritate me all mixed into one collective bowl of unpleasant and narcissism. Every time I have tried to talk about passages like Romans 9 with Calvinists, they shut me down before I can read the first verse.

[@Do_not_at_me_bro]

Cause their weak points can't stand up to scripture so they deflect and attack.

[@teeemm9456]

I would say, don't believe it's all Calvinists. I know some, and they are quite pleasant. My original church was actually Calvinist and you'd be hard pressed to know it on most Sundays, even if you really understood TULIP, etc. That being said, I think there was a large schism a few years before I joined mostly because of it, but the hints were there and it seems much easier to place now. I didn't really know what Calvinism was until more recently and thinking back, there were clues but not outright doctrine.

[@briward1654]

Why do we resist Calvinism? Well, On balance the Calvinist systematic sees God as primarily a devouring, wrathful being, Who desperately needs to be continually expressing His wrath, condemnation and judgment to be most fulfilled and glorified. Scripture, on the other hand, would show God as reluctantly expressing His wrath and judgment, and desiring to show love, grace and mercy to ALL of His creation. When you get deep into Calvinism what does it really teach? As in Reprobation. In their system, God on purpose and irresistibly created only a few people to be LOVED by Him but in stark contrast He irresistibly created many, many more to be the Objects of His HATRED with NEVER an option to be LOVED by Him. This HATRED of man is NOT an outcome of man’s free choice it is totally by God’s purposeful and deliberate design, man had nothing to do with this. All of this was decided by God alone in eternity past before any man existed. Yes, a few are created to be Loved BUT many, many more people are on purpose created to be HATED by God and have always been HATED by Him and ONLY ever will be Hated by God. In Calvinism HE already hates them in eternity past. He created them FOR no other purpose except damnation, judgment and wrath. In Calvinism, God deliberately created and designed these two groups, they were irresistibly created differently by God, one group was ALWAYS created to be “Special and loved” and the other group was ALWAYS created to be “despised, hated and rejected”. Once again it is important to understand God’s eternal hatred of this vast multitude of mankind is NOT an outcome of man’s free choice it is totally by God’s purposeful, deliberate and Sovereign design alone. In Calvinism, this is what it means for God to be Sovereign. 1. Group one is IN - they are designed to be Loved, Accepted, Embraced, destined for heaven. This group has always been Selected to be a part of this “Special Good group”. They were always created FOR HEAVEN and ONLY FOR HEAVEN no other option was ever available to them except HEAVEN. The Calvinist sees himself in this group. 2. Group two is OUT - God never loved them, never intended to love them, He always hated them, He never pursued them, they were never wanted by their creator, they were always created FOR HELL and ONLY FOR HELL. They were irresistibly created FOR this ONE purpose, HELL. No other purpose was ever available to them, this was God’s divine decree, design and choice and HIS alone. The vast majority of His image bearers (people) were created by God deliberately FOR this single destiny and ONLY for this destiny. The God of Calvinism NEEDS the majority in HELL so that HE can be fully glorified that is why He deliberately designed the vast majority FOR HELL and ONLY FOR HELL. Now, the Calvinist sees most of his peers as being created by God for this purpose ALONE. Scripture, however, shows God as one who reluctantly expresses His wrath and judgment, one who “is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” 2 Pet. 3:9. The God of scripture is not one who creates people so that He can express His wrath on them. Scripture shows God’s heart of genuine mourning over those who reject His gift of salvation genuinely extended towards them. Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to her, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not! We consistently see in scripture a God who reluctantly punishes and would rather see all choose to avoid His judgment. Eze 33:11 Say to them: As I live, says the Lord Jehovah, I have no delight in the death of the wicked, except in the turning of the wicked from his way, and so to live. Turn, turn from your evil ways; for why will you die, O house of Israel? That however is NOT the picture painted by the Calvinist systematic. The Calvinist doctrine shows God as desiring and purposefully orchestrating every event so that the vast majority of people will ONLY be able to experience His wrath, hatred, damnation and judgment. To this sad group, God never gives any other option whatsoever except eternal damnation. His genuine love and mercy are never extended towards them, ONLY His wrath and judgment. That is what TULIP teaches. Under Calvinism the Reprobate does not experience these horrific things because of their free choices but instead by God’s willful and deliberate design and HE Alone purposing them to be Objects of His wrath. They are objects of His wrath because He deliberately designed them FOR Hell and only for HELL they were never given any other option by their creator. Under Calvinism God seems to get greater glory by expressing His wrath and judgment than by expressing His Love, Grace and Mercy. This is revealed by the disproportionate number of people God purposefully and irresistibly creates to be the objects of His wrath versus the few He creates to be loved by Him. Warning: The Deeper you go in Calvinism the worse it gets.

[@bobtaylor170]

Bri, thank you. I'm trying to free myself of this awful system. It does shut down not so much the mind as the heart, because one must force oneself to become heartless in order to persist in it. Thank God, indeed, I believe my mind is beginning to resist it. Please pray I'll be successful in wresting this monstrous thing off of me.

[@briward1654]

@@bobtaylor170 Praying for you brother...here are a few quotes from A.W.Tozer that have been a help to me just to think soberly about the nature of God. Which is the most important issue in this debate...Calvinism turns God into a monster and here is why. AWT quotes: “The MOST important thing ABOUT US is what comes to our minds when we think about GOD.” “Man’s spiritual history will positively demonstrate that no spiritual journey has ever been greater than its idea of God.” “All the problems of heaven and earth, though they were to confront us together and at once, would be nothing compared with the overwhelming problem of God: That He is; what He is like; I believe there is scarcely an error in doctrine or a failure in applying Christian ethics that cannot be traced finally to imperfect and ignoble thoughts about God.” A.W.T “Before the Christian church goes into eclipse anywhere there must first be a corrupting of her simple basic theology. She simply gets a wrong answer to the question, ‘What is God like?’ and it goes on from there. Though she may continue to cling to a sound nominal creed, her practical working creed has become false. The masses of her adherents come to believe that God is DIFFERENT from what He actually is; that is heresy of the most insidious and deadly kind.” A.W.T. These quotes help show us WHY Calvinism is such a harmful belief system. It tells us God is different from what He really is.

[@raymatthews4319]

They picture God as a little child and we in the world are His toys who He decides He wants to keep and which ones He wants to destroy. When I was a child I played with toy soldiers. I would choose the ones to win and the ones to die. The Calvinists view God the same way which can be blasphemous. More and more every day I am coming to believe that it's actually a cult.

[@bobtaylor170]

@@briward1654 , thanks so much, brother. I love Tozer, and haven't read him in waaaaay too long.

[@bobtaylor170]

@@itisnow , I have problems with E.O. theology, though I love and am fascinated by that huge part of the Church. I'm about to read Robert Lethem's book.

[@SergeantJackHarris]

"God is most glorified in the grace shown to all His enemies, not His ability to control them." Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. I agree with this 100%. Thank you for saying this.

[@nadaaseveraqui2031]

​@@MickJagger-el6of Most humans want to punish their enemies, but who would be willing to die to save their enemies? Who would send their own beloved Son to die for their enemies? Although there is no specific Bible verse that says "God has given humans free will, including in salvation," all of Scripture testifies to this. If salvation is based solely on God selecting the elected, then why didn't He elect everyone? Nothing was stopping Him from doing so. Christ's sacrifice would have been sufficient for everyone. And no human is better than another, so why would He choose to send His creatures, made in His image and likeness, to hell? This is what makes Calvinism unsustainable. God must have a different reason for not saving everyone, and the Bible reveals that reason. In His sovereignty, God has established that the only condition for electing people for salvation is that they believe in Jesus and His sacrifice. God is not forcing anyone to do this; His will is that everyone chooses to believe. But if someone does not believe, they are rejecting that Christ paid for their sins, and God's wrath will still be upon that person because He must do justice for His own glory. God's sovereignty is not affected by giving humans this choice, the plan of salvation remains His, the execution of the plan remains His, and faith remains a gift from Him. See, I have set before you this day life and good, and death and evil; In that I command you this day to love the LORD your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that you may live and multiply: and the LORD your God shall bless you in the land where you go to possess it. But if your heart turn away, so that you will not hear, but shall be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce to you this day, that you shall surely perish, and that you shall not prolong your days on the land, where you pass over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both you and your seed may live: That you may love the LORD your God, and that you may obey his voice, and that you may hold to him: for he is your life, and the length of your days: that you may dwell in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them. Deuteronômio 30:15-20 And he said to them, Go you into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned. Marcos 16:15,16 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 1 Timóteo 2:1-6 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Pedro 3:9 If you do well, shall you not be accepted? and if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And to you shall be his desire, and you shall rule over him. Gênesis 4:7 Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve you the LORD. And if it seem evil to you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom you will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods; Josué 24:14-16 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all irreverence and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what is knowable of God is apparent in them, for God made it known to them. Romanos 1:18,19 And for this reason God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to uncleanness, to degrade their bodies among themselves, who changed the truth of God into the lie, and worshiped and served the creation against him who created it, who is blessed into the ages. Truly. Romanos 1:24,25 And with all delusion of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Tessalonicenses 2:10-12

[@nadaaseveraqui2031]

​@@MickJagger-el6of I must first thank you for opening your heart and reading an opposing interpretation, unlike many Calvinists. I will split my response into two or more comments due to its length. In John 6, Jesus says that everyone the Father gives to Him will come to Him. In John 10, as you rightly put it, He affirms the same, that His sheep hear His voice and come to Him. But at no point is Jesus saying that people were arbitrarily chosen for salvation. God's criterion for this election is a positive decision of faith in Christ and His redemptive work. God is not confined to time as we are, so even if we consider that God made a choice of some and rejected others, that choice was still made from God's point of view, who sees all eternity simultaneously. He chooses those who believe, and those who believe are chosen. One thing does not happen independently of the other, so that humans have a real choice to believe or not. It was not an arbitrary decision of God that man must be fatalistically saved or condemned, as He said, "and him that comes to me I will in no wise cast out." Romans 9 is a chapter that I can only read through a Calvinistic lens if I have Calvinism in mind because otherwise, it is a chapter in which Paul is denouncing Jews who criticized Christianity because God chose to save Gentiles instead of them. They believed that because they were descendants of Abraham, they should be saved just for that reason. Paul begins the chapter by saying that his sadness over the Jews rejecting Christ is so great that if it were possible, he would choose to be condemned in their place so that they would believe. Paul then affirms that to the Jews indeed belong the covenant, the law, the promises, the worship, the patriarchs, and that the Messiah according to the flesh also came from them. Paul then goes on to say that despite this, it is not because they have Jewish blood that they are all Israelites, that it is not because they are descendants of Abraham that they are children of Abraham. He speaks of this by making a comparison: Isaac was chosen to continue the lineage of the Messiah; he was the son of the Promise that God made to his father and not the son that Abraham had with Hagar. Paul goes on to say that in the same way, God chose Jacob instead of Esau to be the lineage of the Messiah, even though Esau was the firstborn. Let us remember that Esau rejected his birthright, trading it for a bowl of lentil stew. God did not force Esau to do this; it was His choice, but God had already said that this would happen because He knows everything. Remembering that Paul is not saying here that Esau went to hell; he is only saying that Jacob was chosen to fulfill a role instead of Esau, even though he initially had no right to it. Paul then says that there is no injustice on God's part in this; he goes on to say that God chooses whom He wants and that it is not a birthright like Esau's or the Jews' that prevents Him from exercising His Sovereign Will. Paul then says that God hardened Pharaoh's heart to show His Glory, but we should not understand this as God having fatalistically determined that Pharaoh would refuse to let the people go. We can go back to Exodus and verify this: "And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand. And I will stretch out my hand, and smite Egypt with all my wonders which I will do in the middle thereof: and after that, he will let you go." Exodus 3:19,20 We have no reason to believe that a tyrannical leader like Pharaoh would let the people go, and God knew that Pharaoh would not let the people go, so God further hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that his disobedience would be taken to the last consequences and God would show His Power and Glory. And I will harden Pharaoh' heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt. But Pharaoh shall not listen to you, that I may lay my hand on Egypt, and bring forth my armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments. And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I stretch forth my hand on Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them. Êxodo 7:3-5 Yes, God does this with disobedient people, but disobedient people disobey on their own, God only delivers them to the consequences of their own sin, as Paul said in Romans 1: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has showed it to them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things. Why God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Romanos 1:18-28 Continuing in Romans, Paul says that God selects vessels for honor and vessels for dishonor, this is where Calvinists are convinced that God is saying that He selects some for heaven and others for hell, but we should not overlook the entire preceding and subsequent context. After talking about the vessels, Paul goes on to explain it further, he shows that by the disobedience of the Jews many will be rejected even though they are "firstborn", while the Gentiles who were not children, if they believe, will be counted as Children of Promise by faith and not according to the flesh. The Gentiles achieved justification before God, not through works, but through what God put as a condition for salvation: faith in Christ, thus ending chapter 9. In chapter 10, Paul speaks even more about how the Jews were disobedient and continuously rejected God, and shows how they cannot claim a lack of opportunity, and that God therefore promised to make them jealous with a people (the Gentiles) who were not His people. In chapter 11, Paul continues with his reasoning. He says that God has not rejected his people, his promise has not been broken, but He will not consider all of Abraham's descendants as Children of the Promise, only those who believe. Only the remnant of his people will be considered Children of the Promise along with the Christians. Furthermore, Paul says that all of this was so that through Israel's disobedience, many more would be saved, for God transforms the evil that humans do into good. But if their disobedience brought salvation to the world, how much better their restoration to the Body of Christ through obedience would be? Paul says that we Christians are like wild olive branches that were grafted into the Olive Tree in place of the branches that were cut off due to their unbelief, which are the Jews. However, Paul still warns us not to boast about this because it is not us who sustain the Olive Tree, but rather the Olive Tree sustains us. Our salvation is completely God's merit, and he says that we must remain in faith otherwise God can also cut us off. He then says that in the same way, if the Jews do not remain unbelieving, God is able to graft them back into the Olive Tree. In other words, the Jews were not irrevocably cut off from the Body of Christ, they can return if they abandon unbelief. Paul concludes chapter 11 by saying that God did all these things (the hardening of Israel) to bring salvation to the whole world, that is, to all who believe. Now my conclusion: God is not saying that he selects people arbitrarily for salvation, on the contrary, if that were the case, all the people of Israel would be saved, regardless of their idolatry and disobedience. But Paul makes it clear that God keeps his promise by saving the remnant, those who believe.

[@nadaaseveraqui2031]

@@MickJagger-el6of Regarding people who abandon the faith and lose their salvation, Calvinists say that it is because they were never truly saved, but we have no reason to believe that. What the Bible makes clear and warns us about several times is that we must be careful not to fall away, as it is a possibility. Calvinists rightly ask, "But how can we have confidence in our salvation then? If it depends on us and I know I'm not reliable?" However, it's not simple sins that cause a person to lose salvation. We can have confidence in salvation, even as non-Calvinists, because our salvation truly does not depend on us, but on Christ Jesus. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For your sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romanos 8:35-39 There are no sins that can take away our salvation, but in the same way there is indeed one condition for losing salvation, didn't God impose faith as a condition for salvation? For in the same way the condition for apostasy is the opposite confession, knowingly rejecting Christ and his redemptive work. Three things come to mind regarding this: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebreus 6:4-6 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Hebreus 10:26,27 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow does not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. Why I say to you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven to men. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Mateus 12:24-31,32 In a different way, these three passages are talking about the same thing: apostasy, the unforgivable sin. In the case of Hebrews, it seems that Paul is saying that whoever sins after knowing Jesus will inevitably go to hell, but that's not the case, because we know that even true Christians struggle against sin until the end of life. What Paul is warning is that Jews who were tempted to return to what Paul calls "dead works," such as believing they will be saved by the Law or that they should return to animal sacrifices, should not do that, because there will be no turning back. This is the same as spitting in the face of Jesus and then wanting him to humiliate himself and die again for them. In Matthew, the Pharisees knew they were at least in the presence of a prophet sent by God, given the signs and miracles that Jesus performed and the things he said. However, out of love for their "power" as priests, they preferred to accuse Jesus of working by the power of Beelzebub. In doing so, they sealed their fate by rejecting Christ knowingly he was sent by God, just like an apostate. Concluding, I understand perfectly the fear that Calvinists have of the idea that it is possible to lose salvation, and the idea of unconditional election where God even chose for them puts them in a very comfortable position, but that is not what the Bible says. Even though God gives humans the choice for salvation or condemnation, we don't need to be afraid of losing it, it's not something that is lost one day, gained the next and lost again, apostasy is a deliberate act, it's not even when a Christian, tempted, ends up cheating on his wife even knowing it's wrong, it's actually when a Christian, knowing that Christ is the Lord, decides deliberately to live against that truth without caring about the consequences of going to hell, it's someone who is saying to God "I reject". We can all have faith and confidence in the Lord, for He is not a man that He should lie, it's not because we sin that we will lose our salvation in Him, nothing can separate us from His love. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back to perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. Hebreus 10:38,39

[@nadaaseveraqui2031]

One thing I forgot to mention, but I prefer to make it clear, is that there are people who for a time drift away from the faith and live as unbelievers, but after a certain time they repent and return to Jesus. These people did not abandon the faith, as evidenced by their return to Christ. There are still people who are in the process of drifting away and end up dying; did these people lose their salvation? We cannot affirm that at all, only God knows who has drifted so far from Him as to have apostatized or not. Paul, I don't remember exactly where, talks about a member of the church who was having relations with his own father's wife, and Paul says that this man should be delivered to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved. That is, there are people whom God, seeing them drifting away, punishes with death, sickness, accidents, so that they may turn back to Him. These people did not lose their salvation, but in order not to sink even further, God out of mercy decides to punish them. Only God knows who has apostatized or not; we do not have access to this mystery. All we can do is persevere in our faith in Jesus Christ and be certain of our salvation in Him, who took upon Himself all our sins.

[@nadaaseveraqui2031]

@@MickJagger-el6of I will try to make an illustration that shows why God giving the decision to man to choose between condemnation or salvation does not affect His sovereignty. Imagine that no human being has a mouth, and then the Lord asks us, "Do you accept the sacrifice of Christ?" No one could answer because they do not have a mouth. This is the natural state of the human being dead in sins and trespasses. Calvinism says that God selects some and gives them a mouth, and all those whom He gave the mouth also accept Jesus. However, that is not what the Bible says. The Bible says that human beings have a choice, that God chooses those who have faith, and that God wants all to be saved. In reality, God gives a mouth to all human beings and asks the question, "Do you accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ?" Some choose to say "yes," while others use their mouths to say "no." God remains sovereign because humans cannot create a mouth for themselves. It is God who gives everyone a mouth to answer, and those who respond positively are the elect of God. God does not need to decree even the decision for the salvation of human beings to be sovereign. He remains sovereign because He gave the choice in the first place.

[@chadbishop1932]

Thank you Leighton Flowers, to our Great God and Savior be praised! I truly believe the rise of Calvinism was because the church lost its reverence and believers are attracted to the reverence seen in most Calvinist churches. As much as the whole of Calvinist are arrogant we are often as a whole irreverent.

[@sheilasmith7779]

Chad: Calvinism came from Augustine. If Christians would read Augustines early writing, and then read his later writing, Christians will discover the real purpose of Augustine changing his view on salvation: It was to ensure Christians did not " boast," of their salvation, and claim their " works," as the means of salvation. So to accomplish this Augustine made up a new theology, that He then needed to point to scripture to support. What Augustine should have done instead was just argue against boasting and works. He should have warned Christians of these 2 errors; but instead Augustine created one false belief/ teaching and then a whole series of contradictions naturally followed. I wish some of the non-Calvins would do presentations on Augustines writing....which Calvin adopted. It's so clear when one reads Augustines writing what most concerned Augustine and what He did ( created) to address his concerns.

[@sheilasmith7779]

@@JC-sj2pd Yeah, well " arrogant," was the description given to Martin Luther by the church. Knowing truth was not granted only to church leaders and theologians like Augustine. And by your comment I can tell you have never read Augustine. Go read what Augustine wrote supporting man's freewill for 15 years, before other teachings affected his beliefs. If any person wants the TRUTH of God's word, even a random woman on KZbin, God will fulfill that desire for truth. Augustine and Calvin were in error, they were wrong about salvation (according to the scripture). The arrogance is yours JC, not mine.

[@sheilasmith7779]

@@JC-sj2pd There is NO culprit but Augustine who flip-flipped around in his beliefs, some accurate scripture interpretation, some not, until landing finally in error. The Reformers were right to want reform, the church needed it. They were correct in some of the reforms, but not all their " reforms." Instead of forming camps of pro or con Reformers, we should stick to the specific Reformers beliefs and the scripture supporting each of those beliefs. We should all want God's truth more than reinforcing and defending what we have been taught.

[@sheilasmith7779]

@@JC-sj2pd That's exactly what I would say about you. Checkmate, mate.

[@sheilasmith7779]

@@JC-sj2pd " sounds like." How is that an argument at all? General ad hominem claims without a specific point are meaningless. When I say the Reformers were wrong on some things I am referring to scripture support. Calvin wrong: TULIP No foundation in scripture.

[@craigsherman4480]

I would simply say that Calvinism is a belief you might come to when you put your soteriology ahead of your Christology.

[@josephdurraz8574]

Craig Sherman, Calvinism's main doctrines are Beautiful Biblical Truth, But John Calvin did not understand the entirety of this Biblical doctrine so he added his own understanding without scriptural support that contradicts the character of God.... FOR INSTANCE: Since The foundation of the world God has predestined the elect(Sheep) to be saved and predestined the reprobates(goats) to be damned to hell.... And Jesus Christ died Only for the elect(Sheep).... And the elect(Sheep) will never lost their salvation.... These are some of the Biblical doctrines of the Calvinism which are True and Beautiful, but anti Calvinist usually condemn this Biblical truth.... Because they think that everything that the Calvinists believe are not True....

[@jacobjones1996]

@@josephdurraz8574 John 3:16-17 2 Peter 3:9 John 6:40 1 Timothy 2:4 Romans 10:9-13 Calvinism denies free will by it's definition of Sovereignty making God the cause of ALL, including and not limited too, Sin. So, Calvinists believe that God is punishing us (The Genesis Curse) and holding us accountable for the fall which is what God causes us to do. God wants ALL to be saved, but as we all know that's not the nature of man to accept truth. God would not create people in his own image just to seperate us from him and eternally pay for his choice. God is a perfect judge, not a predeterminded one. Also, how do Calvinists know they are elected? Do they have a special election card, or are they just fooling themselves? It's scary to hold these heretical beliefs. John 3:16-17 explains it better then any verse in the Bible. John 3:16-17 NKJV "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. "

[@dfischer5878]

Jesus must have done that too🤦‍♀️.

[@craigsherman4480]

@@josephdurraz8574 I just saw this Mr. Durraz. I can completely understand why you think that way. However, no where in the Bible does it says that God predestines anyone to Heaven or Hell. It says quite the opposite. People choose where they will end up out of their own free will.

[@willp.8120]

@@craigsherman4480 it says God draws us and that no one comes to Jesus unless the Father has given them to Him. It also indicates that He will not lose a one, and points out that no one can come unless the Father draws them. It also says that he has foreknew and predestined those to justification and glorification. Hence, if you never come to Christ, you were never chosen, were not drawn by God.

[@koropatwa]

I love these new videos you are making. Excellent.

[@apilkey]

Regarding their belief of double predestination reformers will appeal to emotion and try and get the bible believer to say it’s “unfair.” Fairness has nothing to do with it. It’s UNBIBLICAL not “unfair.”

[@livingwater7580]

amen

[@Fairfax40DaysforLife]

I think it's both. God is no respecter of persons, is He? If He offers mercy to one being created in His image, I'd say He is obligated to offer mercy to all such beings. Calvinists will certainly denounce this as emotionalism, but I say let them. I need not apologize for being right simply because they think God's character is worse than it actually is.

[@apilkey]

Jonathan Darnel Ya I’d say if anything it’s not an appeal to “our” emotions but to GOD’S emotions and that we’re not defending our emotions but we’re actually defending the true and genuine emotions of a loving and merciful God who desires all to be saved and waits patiently to extend His mercy towards His creation. Reformed theology makes a mockery of God’s emotions and treats them as disingenuous. ISAIAH 30:18 18 Therefore the Lord WAITS TO BE GRACIOUS to you, and therefore he EXALTS HIMSELF to SHOW MERCY to you. For the Lord is a God of justice; blessed are all those who wait for him. QUESTION: If God predestined those who would believe in Him already then who is God being patient and waiting for? Himself? Is God patiently waiting for HIMSELF to effectually save them? God doesn’t glory in our destruction but in His MERCY which is why He PATIENTLY WAITS for us because He is also Just and Holy and knows that ultimately He has to execute judgment according to RIGHTEOUSNESS which of course can only be found THROUGH Christ. 2 PETER 3:9 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, BUT IS PATIENT TOWARD YOU, NOT WISHING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD REACH REPENTANCE. God waits patiently for us to turn to Him in repentance. To consider our ways with the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil that the fall brought and to forsake our ways and live by humbly admitting that we can’t save ourselves and admit that to the One who can! MATTHEW 23:37 37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, HOW OFTEN WOULD I HAVE GATHERED THY CHILDREN TOGETHER, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and YE WOULD NOT!" QUESTION: If God predestined before the foundation of the world who would believe then why is Jesus making this statement? **Wouldn’t a better statement from Jesus be, “How often would I have gathered you but my Father did not choose you!” Jesus extended them a GENUINE OFFER OF SALVATION and they refused. This is not God in Heaven “crossing His fingers” just hoping that they would accept His free offer. No, this is God in Heaven stretching forth His hand in a GENUINE OFFER, longing for them with a broken heart and with the tears of a Father. That’s what God in Heaven is doing!

[@apilkey]

Jonathan Darnel ... I’d say you’re right in respect to God is obligated not by how we define Him or what we impose on Him , but He’s obligated to HIMSELF. God sets the standard of who He is and is bound by His Word because He cannot lie. We don’t tell God who He is but rather He has told us who He is and He holds Himself to His statements of truth as clearly revealed in His Word. God will most certainly uphold His own definition of love and mercy and grace and justice. And just as David and others reminded God of His covenant and not to forget His covenant so to do we have a right given to us by God (not just taken presumptuously by ourselves) to remind God of His promises and His truth as outlined in His word.

[@lizicadumitru9683]

@@apilkey Well said brother. I was always astounded by how the "patriarchs" and others of scripture held God to his word 😁

[@jbemb1216]

I hope your page will grow more.. this video is so informative and clear

[@simplyawsome918]

Thank you my brother. You helped open my eyes to the TRUTH. To God be the glory!

[@dustinpaulson1123]

If these men could walk in their father Calvin's footsteps, there'd be Christians burning on piles of wood all around the country.

[@branch9422]

I'd volunteer for the stake. i like steak.

[@dustinpaulson1123]

@@mojo7495 sorry I can't hear your insults over Servetus' screams.

[@JohnQPublic11]

Dear Dr. Flowers, Brilliant video. You left out the bit, ahem, the Calvinist doctrine, where it is 100% impossible for anyone to be believe in, or be Saved by, the Calvinist God *”UNLESS”* he enters their mind, *against their will,* and alters it in such a way as to make it 100% impossible for them to do anything other than believe in and worship the Calvinist God.

[@vitormenezesdemattos967]

I often say: If God does EVERYTHING and you can't choose him, then nobody wants God. Everyone that chose God is because God MADE THEM WANT HIM and therefore... no love for God is genuine, nor rejection of Him either.

[@endtimesareuponus8930]

Calvinism is Satanic

[@brucewallen593]

as a 66 year old man, saved by grace, I find their comments about me, in general, insulting...they seem to highly inflate their opinion of their philosophy. Seems quite judgemental...

[@silaschambers7413]

Are you referring to Calvinists or non calvinists?

[@PotterSpurn1]

@@silaschambers7413 When they use the term 'saved by grace' they are normally calvinist.

[@margriettalen6713]

Salvation is given us through grace extended to us by God. But there are certain conditions in order for that to become effective. The Bible states it is a free gift. It needs to be accepted by the person who is receiving it. God does not automatically push it on us. We need to realize that no one is worthy of this free gift. As ALL have fallen short of salvation because of Adam’s and Eve’s disobedience in the garden of Eden. In the Old Testament we read of how people were to obey the Old Covenant rules set out for us in the Law. They tried, and failed time and again. Punishment came many times not only to those we were not of God’s chosen people, the Israeli people, but also to the ones who God had set apart as His people. This is documented over and over again. The sacrifices given by the priests were not adequate to bring about total forgiveness. Then God implemented His plan of salvation. He sent His son Jesus Christ who first of all taught people about himself but eventually paid our sin debt in full when he was literally sacrificed at the cross. He paid out sin debt in full. Once for all. Done! There is now no more sacrifice left to give, Christ did it all! At that time his disciples and followers did not understand what had happened, and His teachings were still not clear to them. It was not until Holy Spirit was given to them that they started to understand. Therefore, the apostle Paul said in Romans 8:9 -. If you do not have the Holly Spirit, you are not one of mine. The Holy Spirit will teach us all things, we will never understand God’s ways until we also have Him. He is out teacher and will open our hearts towards Him when we surrender our all to Him. As long as we are trying to live this life on our own, and many “Christians “ do, we are still trying to get His forgiveness our way. Galatians 2:20 reads: I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I, but Christ lives in me. Colossians 2:20 states - you have died with Christ. Unless we have died to self we cannot live this life. Christ is the only way.

[@tristen7085]

When my daughter married her husband he introduced her to calvanism. Within a short period of time he began to keep her away from us based on our faith and Christian walk as well as the church we attend. Eventually I got a letter that cut me off from them and my baby grandchildren. She has become extremely critical of others and is no longer the loving daughter I once knew. She no longer ministers to the homeless and addicted but rather is constantly critical of everyone. Both her and her husband are very arrogant and prideful and think they are better than most. My heart is broken over this. Calvanism is cult like.

[@sunshinegirl1967]

@@tristen7085 I'm so sorry. I don't think they can do this legally - keep you away from your own grandchildren for no good reason. I'd look into that. I keep hearing so many ways in which Calvinism hurts and damages people.

[@ninjason57]

Why then was it important to “preach the gospel to all nations”. If the true elect will turn to God out of pure predestination then there’s no need for the great commission.

[@margriettalen6713]

The real Calvinist does not promote telling others about Christ and the Salvation only He can give to to ALL those who believe that Jesus paid their sin penalty in full when He shed His blood on the cross. I was told by someone who is , that a Calvinist would never go up to a stranger and tell them : Jesus loves you! So much for the great commission given us by Jesus himself. I understand that we are to obey Him.

[@jakeabbatacola5092]

God who is sovereign over salvation is also sovereign over the means. If he says preach, then we preach. Who are we to question God? The anti-Calvinist loves himself and boasts in his own might.

[@ninjason57]

@@jakeabbatacola5092 That's a leap in logic to just assume that anyone who questions the calvinist idea "loves himself and boasts in his own might". I do agree that if God says preach, we preach.

[@jakeabbatacola5092]

@@ninjason57 I didn’t say questions Calvinism. I said anti-Calvinist. Anti-God’s sovereignty, anti-Grace. Anti-Calvinist views of theology are so popular in America because they teach us that we had a part in our salvation. We love that as Americans, and as people in general.

[@jakeabbatacola5092]

@@margriettalen6713 The Gospel is not (at all): Jesus loves you.

[@MBB563]

I was saved in 2012, on that day this magnificent feeling, a bliss of joy and fire came over me. I felt the Holy Spirit touch me. I knew this was all Jesus, nothing I did or could do to deserve this wonderful joy of forgiveness. Sadly, through out the years, I thought this joy was going to be with me til I die, but it didn't. It started to wane and fade as I went back to my old ways. And yes, I was still a new creation, but I was battling the flesh. I worked hard to please GOD, to be perfect, not to sin, not to fall or stumble. It never worked, and when I repented, I felt that GRACE come over me, something I can't explain. Simply, the guilt went away, and GOD restored me, tho never that same bliss, but I still sensed his forgiveness. At times, it was an overwhelming forgiveness. It was like I was falling away, but i kept being forgiven. In truth, something was protecting me. It would not let me fully go back or go too far. I did this for 10 years thinking that I could lose my salvation - I must please GOD, I must do better, that's what brings me back to HIM. I thought it was all about me. And yes Calvinism was evil, total waste of time, something the enemy invented to derail Christians. But then one day, I struggled to please GOD, thinking I would lose my salvation, seeking to be found perfect....I sinned again, and it was bad. In that moment, I cried and repented, and sure enough, I sensed the forgiveness of Jesus. Finally, it hit me, like a brick from the sky....I have it all wrong. I can never lose my salvation. This is all Jesus, HE started this promise, and HE will finish it. I never chose HIM, HE chose me, and Salvation is all HIM...Calvinism hit me hard. It made so much sense. It gave me peace and comfort... His yoke is easy. HE will keep HIS promise as HE did with the disciples. HE will keep you sealed, protected from the enemy, and take you home one day to have eternal life with the Father. If you think you discovered salvation, and it's up to you to keep it, and it's you that is in control, and it's your will that brought this gift from heaven....you are so mistaken if not lost. So off the mark. In fact, it's super dangerous... you have no WILL, you did nothing, and you can do nothing to earn the LOVE of GOD....HE did it all. This is just an amazing thing beyond human comprehension. It leaves you gasping for air, how good and great Jesus is to us. Why would GOD do this, knowing what a wretched soul I am. If this is Calvinism then sign me up because no other doctrines explain GODs love like Calvinist.

[@sirryan5075]

His "yolk"?

[@MBB563]

@sirryan5075 oh jeez one typo and now I lost my salvation..

[@internet6695]

Thanks for sharing this beautiful message.

[@theTavis01]

"Why do most Christians resist Calvinism?" Because it's a poisoned apple. But if you call a Calvinist out on the poison, they'll just point at the apple and claim innocence.

[@georgehunter1133]

Because it's a doctrine of demons.

[@flotopo]

Excellent content, as always!

[@DavidIstre]

Something just clicked: the errors of Calvinsim source in the standard by which they measure the height of God's glory, which is "sovereignty". Likewise, the errors in many non-Calvinists source in the standard by which they measure the height of God's glory, which is "love". The standard by which one measures the height of God's glory ought to be Jesus Christ: Hebrews 1:3 (NET) The Son is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, and he sustains all things by his powerful word, and so when he had accomplished cleansing for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. When we reduce God to any one of his attributes, and define him entirely by that attribute, we reduce the glory of God and risk creating an idea of God that is saturated in error - in essence, a false god. We need to accept the whole counsel of God's revelation, with its crescendo being in Christ, as the standard by which we measure the height of God's glory.

[@margriettalen6713]

They say that God is sovereign over all, but sure don’t live up to that declaration themselves.

[@LindsayJackel]

Neither sovereignty nor love. Examine your presupposition: glory. Calvinists are about glory. Power and glory. Refer to point number one in their Westminster Catechism re the chief end of MSN.

[@heels-villeshoerepairs8613]

Amen and Double Amen. Thank you for this presentation.

[@susanvandermerwe4679]

I actually found freedom in the doctrines of grace. There is no different 'class of Christian. When I heard that the Lord speaks to me through His Word only, I no longer felt the weight of disappointment when I didn't ' hear Gods voice as I was taught I should in Charismatic circles. I feel safe in the knowledge that God is sovereign in all circumstances.

[@lindajohnson4204]

One problem with any kind of error is that it makes an opposite error seem like relief from the error that we sense has done the most damage. That way, we are sometimes too susceptible to the errors of that group, which do their harm, and it becomes apparent later. After I spent time in charismatic churches, including one I felt bound to like a cult, and which pushed heavy Word Faith, which I knew was wrong, for years after, I prayed only for God to "help me" when I was in especial distress. Whenever I'd think about the "prayer of faith", I had to so fight myself through the word faith version of it, that I'd just give up. I could believe that God would hear "help me!", but not necessarily any other request. Calvinism is promoted as the answer to W-F, etc, as it is really true that WF ignores the fact that God decides many things for Himself, and is not our servant, not to mention that WF turns faith into something like "The Secret", etc, an occultic method for calling down our desires from the Universe/God. But that does not excuse Calvinists putting the blame for word-faith on, basically, what is called Provisionism, although they will usually call it "Arminianism", and add calling us "pelagian" or "semi-pelagian", as Sproul does here, frequently adding "open theist" to the labels of infamy. That doesn't make any of it true. The important thing is to seek the truth in God's word. Anything that makes anything a theology claims, untrue, shows it has failed the test, not God's word. When the Bible disagrees with Augustine, it is Augustine who is wrong, not the Bible.

[@endtimesareuponus8930]

Of course God is sovereign. Calvinism is satanic.

[@dallas41891]

I love this! Leighton you are doing wonderful things for the Lord!! Thank you for refuting Calvinism. I realized after struggling with these issues for about a year, I was trying to swallow a pill that was simply not a pill that should ever be swallowed. Again, thank you for your work in the name of the Lord. You are blessing so many people. I even now pray for John Piper to have a change of heart as far as what he believes on God's sovereigntybecause if somebody that is so strongly for Calvinism and has such a loud voice, changes their mind, then I think that could lead to a revival of Christians learning true theology.

[@kjvacp]

You're much more graceful than i am. I've been praying for Piper to have _sudden change of direction_ due to the front of a cement truck. I ought to stop that. 🤣

[@lizicadumitru9683]

@@kjvacp Yes, you ought to 😇. Imagine if Piper came out and said he was wrong about tulip or any aspect of reformed theology...👍

[@kjvacp]

@@lizicadumitru9683 yeah. Maybe if they were part of another religion and representing a different god, I'd have more tolerance for them. The fact that they have the exact same book i have, and they're claiming to represent the same God i worship..... i can't stand it.

[@branch9422]

@@kjvacp lol...yeah.

[@branch9422]

@@kjvacp Amen

[@shepherdtactical8943]

awesome content thank you so much for your work, i really appreciate it. Lord bless.

[@ronmccombs9133]

Why would anyone accept the teachings of Augustine or Ambrose or any Roman Catholic, that's the origin of Calvinism.

[@bridgefin]

I wondered how long it would take for a talk on Calvinism to turn against Catholicism. You didn't disappoint.

[@golightly5121]

Ron McCombs :Exactly, Calvinism is nothing more than reformed Catholicism.

[@bridgefin]

@@golightly5121 No, heretical Catholicism.

[@golightly5121]

Bridgefin : Calvinism is Catholicism’s insidious, deceptive, cancerous growth into the Church.

[@bridgefin]

@@golightly5121 Not a growth but the only church established by Jesus. And Jesus promised that the gates of Hell would not prevail against her. So you are calling Jesus a liar or ineffective. I think that would be a problem.

[@justindavis2711]

Calvanism is basically the belief that God is playing an RTS videogame by himself, with conscious beings capable of feeling pain - in which the end of the game results in the vast majority of those beings being tortured for eternity by no consequence of their own will. It also claims that God is 'loving'. 😆

[@johnbinford6706]

Big ol' strawman

[@JimiSurvivor]

So it takes a "board over the head?" That sounds like a method of persuasion Calvin could endorse. No, he used fear of the stake and the fire.

[@GodsTruthMinistries]

And with greener wood for his biggest "threats". He was a forerunner of the insecure punks he inspired.

[@lizicadumitru9683]

@macolyis Got to believe in that truth, right?

[@lizicadumitru9683]

@macolyis Good words but it's moot to my point. One must still believe in that truth yes? Or can God make me believe without me considering said truth in my own mind..?

[@reedermh]

And I thought the Bible taught that murderers won't enter the Kingdom? So where does that leave Calvin? In a hot location with no water available?

[@branch9422]

@macolyis i think you can have a conviction about your sin, and you should as evidence of the Spirit in your life. But the Spirit also is the Spirit of adoption crying abba Father. And He also makes us know that we are His (that is part of His ministry). He is known as the comforter: 2 Cor 1:3-4 & John 14:26. I am not a Calvinist. I used to be. But like Lawson said, i studied more, and found it to be untrue (25 years in the word--and the last 5 better understanding how Calvinism is not true or real). But i don't think you are worshipping an idol. I know what it is like to be a Calvinist. I am not an Arminiest either. They are actually subcategory Calvinists...they are still in the Calvinist camp. These are things the teachers don't tell you or care to research. But that reality is out there if you look for it. I am glad you came away from a dead church to the living God. I believe you are saved. I don't agree with Calvinism, but i think your awareness of the Spirit in your life is the evidence of Him saving you. When I got saved I prayed a prayer at my drug dealers house before going to bed. The next day, I woke up a different person. It was clear God was changing my heart. 2 Thes 2:13 is a great verse. We see "elect" and "preordained/predestinated" differently. The way I read that passage is: "We ought to give thanks to you brothers because God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth." What did God choose? That anyone who comes to Him is saved through the sanctifying work of the spirit. Think about it. Did Old Testament saints have the indwelling Pentecost of the Spirit like the church? Being Sanctified by His Spirit in the way we have received Him is different than OT. Otherwise, what was Pentecost about? In addition, please compare 2 Thes with Romans 8:28 NASB -- "He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son." I see the same language. Think about this too, please. Is not God sending His Son, "something?" It is ONLY the biggest deal ever right? So, what I see here is that God having man like His Son would not mean as much if they had not met Him in the OT, right? But now that is it a NT and the Son has been introduced...to become LIKE HIM? "So by the way you'll, you're gonna become like MY SON!!!" Is there no greater Honor? What is more? That God could choose us from eternity past to save us OR that we would be like HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON? Ask yourself, would being chosen in eternity past (an easy thing for God to do...He knows everything), be greater than US BEING LIKE HIS VERY OWN SON? The Son He sent to die on the cross for us? The Son who suffered all temptation for us. The Son who lived a perfect life for us. The Son who bore the eternal weight of sin all in one afternoon for us. Would you compare Christ dying on the cross and rising from the dead on the same par as a decision that God would choose us from a while ago (for Him it was just a while ago)? Which has more investment and import from Him? That could be a hermeneutic, no?

[@Michelle-sq6qi]

Great video Dr Flowers! The arrogance of some of the Calivinist pastors is truly painful to watch. I loved this short but powerful argument against Calvinism. Blessings 🙏

[@Michelle-sq6qi]

@@mojo7495 Are you sure you are making a suggestion or are you asking me a question ? Even so, I think sitting on a cactus would be more bearable than watching the arrogance in some of the Calivinist pastors. Hope this sufficiently answers your question /suggestion

[@michaelclark9301]

The Calvinist's claim that they are "more knowledgeable " is in itself a prideful claim.

[@endtimesareuponus8930]

@janainaribeiro3892 Calvinism is satanic.

[@gaylanbishop1641]

Thank you so much for this. I’ve been grappling. With this and your video has been very helpful to my understanding

[@russellnewton1229]

Leighton, another excellent teaching, thanx. Hearing Calvinist pastor Steve Lawson talk, it was sickening to listen to his self-appointed condescending & superior attitude toward all of us non-Calvinists. Talk about pride!, he's one that certainly has it! And Leighton, thanx for ending this teaching by quoting 1 Timothy 2:3-6. This was totally apropos, one of the main reasons I have never been a Calvinist--& never will.

[@Salvation-Damnation]

Yeah, it pissed me off what he said. Thinking they have the ultimate truth the correct understanding of scripture. How arrogant of calvinist to think that way. No, we reject calvinism because if we are consistent with scripture, it makes God an hypocrite. That's why we stand against calvinism and their bs teachings.

[@bobhutton1409]

I met Steve Lawson, some years ago. The scriptures just poured out of him; he knows the word, and he clearly has a deep walk with the Lord. Before dismissing his arguments ask yourself why you have a problem with the absolute sovereignty of God.

[@bobhutton1409]

If you were consistent with scripture you wouldn't use profanity like you have in your ill-advised comment.

[@Salvation-Damnation]

@@bobhutton1409 There are other ways of calling it. Rubbish, trash, bs. When I wrote the comment I was angry. Now I'm not. Having said that, Lawson teaches a lot of trash. 80% good and 20% trash.

[@lorenzoelijah]

@@bobhutton1409 good to know you are Lawson fanboy, but we don't have a problem with the absolute sovereignty of God. We don't accept the unique calvinist redefinition of God's absolute sovereignty.

[@alohasparkles]

I find these points interesting as I Came across some of these exact issues growing up in a independent fundamental Baptist church that always spoke against Calvinists and seems opposite in doctrine 🤔 ... the weight of harsh judgement, legalism and focus on works/ human responsibility was soooo heavy on me. Ironically I found healing and peace in the preaching of a Calvinist church where I gained a more grace filled and loving picture of God. I am still searching for where I am doctrinally ... but the worship/reverence of God in the Calvinist churches I have attended is something worth noting.

[@beaverinaneaglesnest1024]

That's interesting. My journey has went from Mormon to calvinist to independent Baptist. I found my reformed pastors to be extremely well educated and yet cold and uncompassionate. Neither one shared the gospel with my unbelieving husband.. From my experience, Calvinists are very quick to criticize non Calvinists in their approach to sharing the gospel and yet they themselves are terrible in sharing. What are they going to say to an unbeliever..God doesn't love you unless He has chosen you and Jesus didn't die for you unless at some point in your life, God makes you a believer. I will add that the Lord drew me out of both the Mormon church and the reformed church. My baptist pastor shared the gospel with my husband, reached out to him and my husband is now saved (July 14th 2021) after 26 years of marriage.

[@mauricefrost8900]

Could I offer a recommendation? Don’t worry about doctrine Focus on developing your personal relationship with God (Father, Son and Spirit) and doctrine will sort itself out as an automatic consequence

[@wendymtzc]

Maurice Frost the doctrine of salvation is the foundation for everything else, if you get that wrong nothing else matters…

[@lindajohnson4204]

@@wendymtzc Saving faith in Jesus--the person of Jesus, not every jot and tittle of doctrine-- is what we do to be saved, and we are drawn to the belief that God requires, by the Holy Spirit. The Bible is clear what we need to do to be saved; if we deny that John 3 teaches us how to be saved, the Philippian jailer asked the question, "What must I do to be saved?", and the answer was the same as what Jesus said in John 3, making the truth He spoke, just as "prescriptive" as the apostles' answer to the jailer was, "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved...". The jailer had probably picked up a few things about Jesus, including from hearing the disciples discuss Him and praise Him, but he probably did not know a lot. But he was believing on not just the factual doctrinal information he had been told, but the drawing of the Holy Spirit, to believe in Jesus and be saved. Anything lacking in his knowledge of correct doctrine, the Holy Spirit was sent to guide him toward, just as He is for us, and he would have learned much doctrine, or truths to believe. But when he knew and believed enough, that God considered it adequate for salvation, he was saved. And when we are saved, God does teach us more.

[@lindajohnson4204]

The lined-through part of my comment was "the person of Jesus, not every jot and tittle of doctrine". Trying to turn double dashes into an em dash, works sometimes, and other times, it doesn't.

[@scottadkins9040]

I like what Spurgeon said when asked about Calvinism's predestination or pre-election...asked, "Who are the predestined?" Spurgeon answered, "The whosoever wills."

[@joshuacarrero5360]

All those calvinists should've kept it simple and said they resist Calvinism because God makes them resist it. It's essentially what they believe right? They chose not to say it that way because it would only cast light on the senseless of their belief.

[@uncasunga1800]

No thats just how simple you are lol John chapter describes it perfectly. What a dolt you should actually lool around before settling on total stupefaction from a cult.

[@uncasunga1800]

John 3*^ not to mention every other book and nearly every chapter.. You ought to read it sometime

[@kimberleerivera3334]

Thank you so very much Leighton, for all your dedication to GOD, JESUS CHRIST, and to the sinners of the world, who desperately need to hear GOD'S TRUE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST! GLORY TO GOD!

[@uncasunga1800]

Without the total depravity of man there is no need for a savior and thence No Gospel.

[@uncasunga1800]

We learn that in the first grade.

[@kimberleerivera3334]

@@uncasunga1800 - Yes man is very depraved. But GOD knows that, and that's why GOD gave us a GOSPEL to hear and believe. Now if one doesn't believe it, then they will remain depraved.

[@kimberleerivera3334]

GOD IS HOLY, HOLY, HOLY, and we are not! So GOD sent HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON CHRIST JESUS to be the SAVIOUR for mankind, so that we can be HOLY and BLAMELESS in HIM. PRAISE OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST! GLORY TO GOD!

[@dfischer5878]

@@kimberleerivera3334 so your God is pacing around just hoping someone takes the offer? If God is Holy ; He is also sovereign in all things; including salvation. The atonement was secured; it’s surely can not be left up to sinful man to complete it.

[@TheChurchIsLikenUntoTheMoon]

Wow I can't believe they would say something like that without evidence. "You're wrong because I said so" mentality. No scripture is of private interpretation.

[@roberthendrix7713]

I will say, that although you are dealing with a subject as heavy as Calvinism and salvation, the inclusion of Brian Regan at 5:21 was a nice bit of levity.

[@pknightrider]

Dr. Flowers, thank you so much for what you’re doing. Excellent work. Here are 2 questions: 1. If God already determined salvation is not an option for millions of people, without them having any ability to decide, then why even “create” a hell and warn people (through Christ) about it? Wouldn’t God be punishing people eternally for a determination He Himself made? 2. If Calvinism attracts a “certain type” of mentality or intellectuals per Piper’s words, is God then choosing people based on temperament? What would be the implications of this?

[@margriettalen6713]

God has known From the creation who will follow Him. As Jesus said to His disciples:”follow me”. How did they respond? And how do we respond to His call? In Isaiah 30:15 we read: only in the returning to me will you be saved. Verse 18 says: the Lord must wait for you to come to Him. This tells me that I have to respond to His call. Calvinists think that because they are “chosen”, they are automatically accepted by God. Yes He shows us His grace as it is a free gift, but a gift needs to be accepted.

[@alvinpacle7996]

Acceptance is aligning your will to god's will. Ephesians 2:8 it is a gift. Not by works. It is not by work to see you have faith, but it is by faith to see you have work.

[@VACatholic]

Thanks Leighton. I would love to see you have a conversation with Fr. John Behr on Soteriology. I think it would be a very fun break from the hostility you face in your endeavor.

[@DerKirchenhocker]

If salvation is entirely up to God, why doesn’t He just ordain everyone for salvation? He’s sovereign after all! It’s past time for Calvinism to die. Maybe then there would be a new awakening. It has given a false sense of security to many and caused many others to doubt their own salvation.

[@scottspeig]

Who are you oh man to talk back to God? For He has mercy on who He has mercy.

[@DerKirchenhocker]

This isn’t talking back to GOD. This is the type of question many people are forced to ask when calvinists try to interpret Scripture wrongly and claim that GOD arbitrarily has mercy on just a few. That belief totally contradicts the entire Scripture. God’s invitation is open to all. It would be better to quote the many passages where GOD invites everyone to believe than to put words into His mouth and claim He really only ordains a few for salvation. Please keep God’s plan for the Jews separate from the rest of mankind.

[@scottspeig]

@@DerKirchenhocker The invitation to all would not negate the salvific regeneration under Calvinistic election. They are not mutually exclusive. And your question "Why doesn't God elect all?" is exactly what Paul counters in the paraphrase I replied with. An equally valid question from a non-calinistic position is why doesn't God reveal Himself better - AKA audible voice - to all, or dreams of Christ to all etc. The response is the same.

[@bobfree1226]

@@DerKirchenhocker great answer and your right-The Earliest Reformers were almost all 4 point calvanists and Rejected Limited Atonement and wrote extensively against it. of course the points were non existent but all believed that Atonement was for all!!

[@Jesusfirst71]

You clearly do not have a relationship with Christ if you would wish anyone to die.

[@m4641]

My goodness, this is excellent!

[@sheilasmith7779]

Beautifully explained. Of course God is sovereign. We non-Calvins are arguing that God is NOT sovereign in the way Calvin's claim God is sovereign.

[@uncasunga1800]

Then he is NOT sovereign. Duhhhhhhh

[@sheilasmith7779]

@@uncasunga1800 What so Calvin's are the only ones that define God's sovereignty correctly? No, God is sovereign but in His sovereignty did NOT do what Calvinists claim He did. God can do anything but did NOT assign, or predestined an elect to salvation and another group assigned to hell. That is NOT what scripture says, but rather what Augustine and Calvin claimed.

[@endtimesareuponus8930]

@@uncasunga1800 of course He's sovereign. Calvinism is Satanic to the core.

[@DerKirchenhocker]

Thanks so much. It couldn’t have been said it any plainer.

[@elroyswarts513]

This is fascinating...Once again Dr Flowers, your systematic breakdown and analysis of these things are both insightful and powerful.I always learn a lot from you sir.Thank you so much man of God.

[@fiddledogz]

The reason people reject Calvinism is pride

[@lorenzoelijah]

prove it. I reject calvinism because it blasphemes God's character.

[@endtimesareuponus8930]

@@lorenzoelijah exactly. Calvinism is Satanic

[@brad71forfsu]

“I’m not prideful. God chose me. I am the chosen one.”

[@vtablation]

The Calvinists are the most humble in people in the world. Just look at Jame White. Fiddledogz is the chief staff of the Trinity and he knows people's heart that those reject Calvinism is prideful. He has an amazing insight on human heart and he is a humble guy!

[@jannawalters232]

Calvinism is PRIDEFUL. REPULSIVE

[@jamesdixon4075]

There is an alarming affinity between the core doctrines of Islam and Calvinism.

[@truthseeker5698]

Absolutely. Allah is a determinist deity as is calvinisms god.

[@PizzaFvngs]

They both reek of Gnosticism. Muhammad borrowed from many Gnostic Gospels and Augustine borrowed from Manichaeism

[@randalwdeese]

The amazing conundrum for Calvinists being rude, hard, and unkind, is the fact that they believe they are the chosen of God. Why is it that the chosen of God are not chosen enough to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit?

[@williamstauffer9101]

Hello. Thank you leighton for the time you take sharing. I was raised by mennonites so I have lived both sides of the doctrinal fence. I appreciate your gracious approach. I lean toward a reformed theology but have a hard time with some of the doctrines. I have been taking the time to revisit gods word from another perspective and this gives me a lot to think about.

[@uncasunga1800]

Look up Voddie Baucham and Steve Lawson. Not this goofy loser obsessed with his hatred of truth. Lol.

[@uncasunga1800]

Mennonite is a cult you should know that already

[@endtimesareuponus8930]

@@uncasunga1800 Mennonites are not a cult. Calvinism is satanic.

[@pasqualecandelora2878]

Thank you for this!🙏🏻

[@maximinotovar5798]

Awesome video. Thanks for posting!

[@NathanSotoGuitar]

I just purchased a copy of Tony Evans Study Bible and was very pleased with his explanation of Romans 9 which seems to be in line with Traditionalist soteriology view. You should do a review of it and why not give insights on other study bibles which mostly are Calvinistic.

[@innovationhq8230]

You would expect that from a pelagian heretic like Tony Evans.

[@protruth1]

If there was ever a doctrine that misrepresents God‘s character it’s Calvinism

[@MSHOOD123]

Besides Islam, yes

[@lorenzoelijah]

@@MSHOOD123 and funnily enough the calvinist god and allah have a lot in common.

[@MSHOOD123]

@@lorenzoelijah good one 👍🏻

[@sammig.8286]

R C Sproul was spot on about why Christians reject Calvinism, right up until the part about it being a lower view of God. It seems like in order to believe in Calvinism and still have a high view of God's righteousness and goodness and love, a person either has to be able to hold two contradictory views in mind at once, or redefine what righteousness, goodness, and love are.

[@jannawalters232]

When i learned of Calvinism it caused me a lot of distress. Because it's too hard knowing many Christians believe this doctrine.

[@OkieAllDay]

99.5% of Calvinists are Calvinists because: their pastor is a Calvinist, they read a book, they listened to a podcast, etc. etc. Very rarely have I heard of a person say they became a Calvinist just from reading the Bible

[@warrenjbrown4898]

OkieAllday. Correct, it’s a ‘club’ of insecure people anxious to belong!

[@jamesmcalister1383]

This is so true. I was once a Calvinist. Why? Because I had a friend who was. And I read a book that he suggested. Then my arrogance grew from there. It was actually a video from Leighton that I originally clicked on so I could smugly prove it wrong in defense of the false doctrine of Calvinism. Thank God for saving me from this. I truly believe it is heresy and I know how strong that word is. This info needs a far reach.

[@Parks179-h]

I’m a Calvinist now, and have sat under a classical Arminian for 18 years of my life. Come on guys.

[@jaygee2187]

Avery Parks whether calvinist or classical Arminian, they both stem from the same false philosophical presupposition.

[@Parks179-h]

Jay Gee such as?

[@LCNazarene]

So many quotable statements! Thanks for the inspiration and the persuasiveness of the arguments.

I'm not even a Christian, but I'm dealing with family members who are in the Reformed Baptist (strict Calvinist) Church, and this is fairly helpful. That said, the whole "predestination" angle of Calvinist theology rubbed me the wrong way, since the chapter on the Protestant Reformation in 7th Grade (my first year after switching from Catholic school to public), and coming from a Catholic background, it struck me as hubristically prideful, and this video reminded me of why their sects seem to be based on a fundamental misunderstanding of Christian scripture, especially the New Testament. It's a very cultish theology. It makes me wish more about John Calvin's life and mental health was documented, cos Calvinist theology reminds me of talking to a couple of my friends who struggle with schizophrenia, when off their meds.

[@darthbanana7]

Ryan Reeves has like a 15 part series detailing the life of Calvin.

[@rodrocketon9480]

You are right and should not listen to the Calvinists. Simply making the decision to accept the free of salvation from Christ does not mean you contributed to it or earned. And I would encourage you to do just that. Calvinism focuses on forgiveness, but diminishes regeneration and sanctification. Not only will God forgive you but He will TRANSFORM you by the work of His Holy Spirit in you.

[@rodrocketon9480]

@@MickJagger-el6of What if someone lives as a Christian for 10 years but then walks away from Christ?

[@rodrocketon9480]

@@MickJagger-el6of So, the go to answer from Reformed people is, as you just referenced, "they were never really saved." But there have undoubtedly been people who at one point believed they were 'saved," but later walked away from Christ. If that is possible, how do you know you won't later walk away from Christ? And if that is the case, then what assurance is there reallY?

[@rodrocketon9480]

@@MickJagger-el6of 4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. I John 3:4-8

[@suzanneyorkville]

Thank you Leighton Flower.

[@branch9422]

For some reason....i love this video. It feels like home. The music, music level, the content covered and just everything makes me feel like I am at home. :)

[@timsharpe6652]

Here here ! Well said ! ☺

[@skenth11]

Awesome, awesome opening minute. Should persuade, immediately.

[@rogerelgersma8434]

Most denominations grew up reading their own denominations scholars and found they had studied the Bible and came to write doctrines that are actually quite similar. They all have statements on faith, grace, sin, who God is and a route to salvation. These are quite similar and all come from the same Bible. Now there are a few differences even though they all think their own scholars were led by the Holy Spirit. I grew up in the Christian Reformed Church which is Calvinistic. And I found that the Heidelberg Catechism was very much following the Bible on every phrase. We were also told that it is very hard for the finite human mind to understand total control by God and free will at the same time even though calvinism and its writings were very based on the Bible. God is infinite and we are not, so our not finding it easy to understand is not a problem. But for people who grew up in a free country and have gotten accustomed to scientifically understanding whatever we want to, it becomes a road block to our feeling comfortable with it when we can not understand a God that can be in total control and at the same time let us have control. I think that a God that can give us free will and at the same time guide us with the Holy Spirit to come to him anyway, is really a totally all powerful and all knowing God. Humans who very much want to be in control, and God did tell us to subdue the earth, and then find out something that does not fit our human logic, we want to reject it. When all these points in calvinism are Biblical and one rejects it, that is a human with too little pride. When I took a religion degree at a Lutheran college we had to write a paper on something Lutheran. A religion professors daughter was sitting behind me and said that the Lutherans and Catholics had been differing on faith and works for four hundred years and not resolved it. I read Luther's book 'Bondage of the will' and Erasmus book 'Freedom of the will' and one was totally for God is in control and the other for human free will. Luther had twice as much Bible references and very direct proof of his God's control and Erasmus had half as many Bible texts and many of those were somewhat circumstantial. Any denomination can have a flaw. I grew up hearing about the Holy Spirit convicting us of our sin and leading us to realize the need for repentance and salvation. But as many denominations in the sixties, we were not told about Spiritual gifts. That was just a 'Penticostal' thing and considered a little crazy. So when spiritual gifts came was amazing. Once God showed me in my mind that if God is all powerful, then if he lost one soul to the devil, he would have lost. Now all the other spiritual revelations I had were perfectly in line with the Bible, but this one seemed wrong because I had been taught that many go to hell and a few go to heaven. So I immediately prayed for understanding. Immediately the parable of the straight and narrow way to heaven and the wide path to destruction was where I could not get a match. So I was in a Baptist college library at the time so went to the shelf with Bibles and read that parable. It does not say the path of destruction leads to hell. It does not say the straight and narrow lead to heaven. Both say that each path is how to 'get there.' And then I realized that most of the testimonies I hear are from people from a path of destruction who change and get saved and a few of the testimonies I hear are from people who were living the straight and narrow and then become saved. So just because God leaves the threat of hell, does not mean that he actually will let you go there. He might actually save everyone. If God is that powerful, no one will dare rebel in heaven again, which will make heaven safe. After all, sin originated in heaven when the devil rebelled with no example of sin to follow. If one prayerfully follows the Bible and not just follow one person's or group's interpretation of the Bible is a good idea. Following humans is a risk.

[@user-ip9cd2kg4b]

Nothing crushes pride more than saying I'm elect and you may not be.

[@razmiks.9472]

Hi Leighton. Where do you stand on "Once saved always saved?" I know you have many videos so not sure if you cover it somewhere. If not, can you please do a video on that?

[@larrytruelove7112]

Razmik S. I’m guessing that Leighton would affirm once saved always saved. Leighton Flowers is a Southern Baptist and that’s once saved always saved is typical for southern baptists.

[@seansmith5815]

Razmik S. I suggest you check out Ralph Yankee Arnold. He posts all his sermons on KZbin.

[@douggibson5245]

As much as I raz brother Flowers for holding that timeless foreknowledge is compatible with genuine free choices, I want to make it clear to bro. Flowers that his work exposing and refuting Calvinism is exquisite to say the least. It is a paragon of perfection, a frison of delight. (I guess my superlatives got a little heavy handed. I'll tone it down a notch). Why DO most Christians resist Calvinism? It is because a law-abiding citizen who just happens NOT to be a Christian has more mercy, compassion, love, KINDNESS, patience, goodness, gentleness and self-control and is more MORAL than the god of Calvinism. I'm just honest when I say that to Calvinists. And I know it is on the mark too because their violent explosion to me sharing my observation confirms to my heart how right I actually am on that particular point. Still, all of TULIP, all of Calvinism boils down to one thing they teach and ONE thing ONLY: an effectual call that they tack onto a general external call and when they do THIS, they blaspheme by making the gospel call completely INEFFECTUAL so it contrasts with an 'effectual call'. The only question that is a matter of debate between Christians and Calvinists is whether the Apostles indiscriminately taught sinners that there was a DISTINCTION between an ineffectual and effectual call of the Spirit and whether or not the Apostles told sinners that they cannot BELIEVE the good news UNLESS they FIRST received an 'effectual call'. They never preached to sinners about an effectual call. That means the necessity of an effectual call for saving faith is 'another gospel'. It is an ANTICHRIST gospel, a GNOSTIC gospel.

[@lindajohnson4204]

Yes, tone down that _frisson!_

[@lindajohnson4204]

Agree with you completely!

[@nicolep7241]

Pseudo intellectual meaning A person who wants to be thought of as having a lot of intelligence and knowledge but who is not really intelligent or knowledgeable. Own it.

[@lindajohnson4204]

@@nicolep7241 _You_ own it! Keep it! Nobody own it! Everybody disavow it and desert it.

[@bonniemoerdyk9809]

I appreciate your breakdown of this Dr. Flowers. I was raised in an Arminian church (Church of God - Anderson IN affiliate). At the age of 21, I left my church due to my husband walking out on me w/o any explanation. He caused division in our little country church. My family had been w/ that church since I was 2. A sudden new growth happened when one large family (+cousins, uncles, aunts, ect) joined our little church about one - two yrs. earlier. I got along very well w/everybody there, they were my family! ~ but after he left, he managed to turn the new members against me. He even told me I had to be the one to file for divorce, because he "didn't want to look bad to the church". Anyway, I became one of those Christmas and Easter type "christian" for quite a few years. Just before my 40th B Day God got a hold of me and impressed upon me what a sinner I was! I repented with tears flowing down my face. My life became brand new, and I never wanted to sin again. I poured over Scriptures daily, devouring like a hungry child. As I kept reading and re-reading, I realized just how Sovereign He is. I have a love for all my siblings in Christ, but I now lean more towards "Calvin". While I do know there are church-goers who are smug, prideful, and the other qualities you mention abt Calvinists....they are probably those who sit in church each week, completely oblivious that they are not even Born Again, having never repented. Same with many in the Arminian churches. It shouldn't be Calvin vs Arminius.....but, Saved vs Unsaved Church member! Matt. 7 vrs 21-23.

[@dfischer5878]

Amen

[@imanedwardsikes]

But if you lean Calvin, it shouldn't be anything vs anything, because it's all divinely decreed, and there's nothing we can do to change it.

[@imanedwardsikes]

@@thomasdaniel22 why are you angry? Calvin certainly taught that murdering his theological opponents was ok. Did I miss that "fact"?

[@imanedwardsikes]

@@thomasdaniel22 the god of Calvinism preordained me to respond the way I responded. Are you saying that I have the freewill and ability to respond differently? Enlighten me.

[@endtimesareuponus8930]

Calvinism is Satanic to the core.

[@juaneato]

I went to a Calvinist church that literally told ppl that they didn’t have to preach to the lost because God would save them and bring them to their church if he chose them!! That church was a mess and ultimately scandal-laden at the highest offices. Horrible place run by horrible men. My father was dying in the hospital and the assistant pastor refused to pray for him. He told me, “You get in what you put out and shut the door in my face.” He was later caught stealing money 1,000’s from the church. And he’s still there. Crazy towns!!!

[@pililani_blessings]

John Calvin is in hell anyway, Because of his heresies and the burning of the people on stakes who opposed him.

[@sunshinegirl1967]

Man, that was a brilliant deduction that I don't think any of these men ever thought about. If they applied their own views consistently they'd see.

[@BingoNamo-gb8pz]

You can easily shut down Calvinists using their own theology against them. You just have to know what scripture says & use their own interpretation & reasoning of that scripture against them with other scriptures. Let me give you an example: they interpret the word “world” to mean “the elect.” Calvinists say God doesn’t love the world (he loves the elect). Jesus did not die for the sins of the whole world (he died for the sins of the whole elect). While also saying that Jesus does not pray for the world, but in this verse they go back to the heathen meaning of the word world. If they were consistent with their own theology they would have to say “Jesus does not pray for the elect” but they conveniently change this world to mean “heathen” even though the Greek word is the same as in the other 2 verses. “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world” also the same Greek word found when Jesus says “I do not pray for the world.”

[@nathanhellrung9810]

The slap in the face of all the great scholars who reject Calvinism to say that they reject Calvinism because they don't know the Bible. Arrogance at its worse. What these guys are actually arguing is Gnostic. They truly believe that they have a higher knowledge of the Bible. They are no different than the Pharisees and the high thinking Greek philosophers of Jesus' day. It's simple, not complicated like Calvinists make it out to be. They have to complicate it to defend their unbiblical mostly philisophical claims. I'm so tired of Calvinism. It's a complete joke of a theology, a theology that impugns the very character of God.

[@stephansotomayor9696]

You hit the hammer on the nail

[@yvonnedoulos8873]

At least Sproul admitted that Calvinism is Augustinianism. Doubt he understood the ramifications of that, though.

[@stephansotomayor9696]

@@yvonnedoulos8873 yup calvanism is Augustine! It's such a twist on the Word taught as truth

[@branch9422]

But its sooooo sexy. Its sexy Christianity with tattoos, cigars, sunglasses, fast cars, and John Wayne. Ok... it's John Wayne (Stoicism) Christianity. I am a guy and don't find John Wayne sexy. :(

[@Mark-oo3om]

@@stephansotomayor9696 you hit the nail on the head......

[@rbpage2]

It all comes down to free-will-Best explained in the clearest book on this topic!-"Where Calvinism goes wrong!"

[@uncasunga1800]

Only One has free will. Common sense.

[@amcovered]

Loved this video!

[@markemma5]

Many excellent points. Thank you.

[@brothergerrard3635]

Lawson comes off as full of pride and arrogance.

[@sgedeon01]

Followers of the Light I’ve heard Lawson say that Calvinism separates the wheat from the tares. Nonsense

[@brothergerrard3635]

@@sgedeon01 You're right! Absolute prideful nonsense from the Calvinists.

[@Mark-oo3om]

@@mojo7495 but what if I don't want to sit by you?

[@brad71forfsu]

12:00 to 13:45 is some of the most beautiful words I’ve ever heard expressed about Christianity and the Gospel. Wonderfully said.

[@andresbenavides1768]

May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you brother. I really thank you for your videos. They are very helpful. Calvinism seems to be a sort of cognitive dissonance. Once I had a strong argument with my Pastor. He is Calvinist, but through the years I have learned how to just ignore when he uses Calvinistic approaches in his sermons and notice at the same time that sometimes he makes statements that completely contradict what he believes about salvation through TULIP…. But in the end, all Calvinists will have to give account of their words before the throne on day, as the rest of us.

[@justincalhoun]

“I’m sorry God that I didn’t take credit for following you”

[@mystraunt2705]

Are you trying to imply he wasnt saved lol? I hope you arent, people make whether or not u believe in calvanism a bigger deal than it really is. Its just a disagreement on a secondary theological issue, calm down guys

[@brianmatthews4323]

@@justincalhoun 1Sa 15:28 And Samuel said unto him, The LORD hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou. 1Ki 2:32 And the LORD shall return his blood upon his own head, who fell upon two men more righteous and better than he 2Ch 21:13 But hast walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and hast made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to go a whoring, like to the whoredoms of the house of Ahab, and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father's house, which were better than thyself: Act 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. People are NOT all the same as the Calvinist would have us believe. Billions of unsaved people have lived and died without killing six million Jews like Hitler did. Why does the Lord even commend people if they can't help but to do well?

[@justincalhoun]

@@brianmatthews4323 Election. Gods Grace. The Potter and the clay. Romans 9.

[@brianmatthews4323]

@@justincalhoun The Potter and the Clay: Jeremiah 18

[@Christianos_Theophile]

Because Calvinism makes God a liar. God says it isn’t His will that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance; Calvinism says God creates countless millions of people who have absolutely no chance to repent, and are destined before they’re born to perish. Calvinists also falsely equate faith with works, despite the clear distinction the Bible draws between the two, and ignore every verse that speaks about man’s will in regards to accepting or rejecting the Gospel. A Christian with understanding of the scriptures has no choice but to reject Calvinism, because it’s a false doctrine.

[@GodsTruthMinistries]

@@arthur6157 No one is boasting. Get a clue, Platonist.

[@JohnQPublic11]

@@arthur6157 --- Your commentary proves, you, like every other Calvinist, don't have the foggiest clue what Calvinism teaches.

[@Mark-oo3om]

@@arthur6157" public will, and secret will" now that's scriptural. LOL

[@Christianos_Theophile]

Arthur Moore That’s exactly the kind of comment I would expect from a Calvinist. To start out with, you’re using the NKJV, so I don’t recognize anything you’re quoting as authoritative. Secondly, the argument you’re putting forth makes Jesus saying things like “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” meaningless and even deceitful, as many of those who heard Him wouldn’t have been able to repent by your false doctrine. Look at what God says in Ezekiel 33:11 - 11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? -Ezekiel 33:11 Is God pleading with people to repent who have no ability to repent? Is He a liar when He says He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that He would rather see the wicked turn from his evil ways and live? According to Calvinism, God MADE that wicked man be evil and wants him to die. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. -John 5:39-40 Is Jesus finding fault with people for not coming to Him who have no ability to come to Him? Should we get rid of that word “will,” because it conflicts with Calvinist doctrine? 37 ¶ O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! -Matthew 23:37 So MANY times Jesus wanted to gather them, in His capacity as God - but they WOULD NOT - they weren’t WILLING. This is why people don’t take you seriously; it’s as clear as day throughout the scripture, but Calvinists turn around and do what every other cult does and redefines terms. They tell us “all” doesn’t really mean “all,” and “any” doesn’t really mean “any,” or they resort to extrabiblical nonsense like you did, proposing some kind of secondary, secret will of God. Your theology is broken, brother. No one is boasting about being saved - that’s a hobgoblin that exists solely in the minds of Calvinists. I’m a sinner saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. HE did all the work, I did nothing - all I did was believe Him. What do I have to boast about? Come out of that heretical sect and back to the true fullness of the Gospel

[@scottspeig]

@@Mark-oo3om As scriptural as provisional grace...

[@wildbillslunksauce7621]

Calvinists remind me of the Pharisees: They know all the right interpretations, they are the chosen people, They are gods favorite people, God loves them more, everyone else is wrong but them...etc

[@jordanking5679]

But said calvinists wouldn’t claim any of that being from them. It’s not deserved nor earned. Said calvinists wouldn’t say there’s anything within them that makes them more loved or lovable. Therefore we are nothing like Pharisees. They are of self righteous ego, as calvinists attribute any good in them to ONLY be Christ and Christ alone. Left to our selves we are wretched. Don’t confuse calvinists’ individual opinions from them attempting to point to what they find to be objective and blatant truths in scripture. Based on the premise that what they’re pointing to. They’re saying God is right, and anything outside of that is wrong.

[@salparedo]

@@jordanking5679 sure pal

[@jordanking5679]

@@salparedo This is typically said in a provoking and sarcastic manner, otherwise not said. Is that the case with you as well?

[@markreiber4457]

@@jordanking5679 it's that calvinist mock people who disagree

[@jordanking5679]

@@itisnow Paul must be a smug "calvinist". The arrogant boastfulness that he is what he is only by the Grace of God and yet worked harder than any of them. The smug paradox of being made great through Christ in his thorn-made weakness. Calvin's mindset of being chosen, yet undeserving is the embodiment of Paul's confident attitude founded in humility. But yes, egos often get in the way both for the calvinist and the receiver of the calvinist. Its like having a super bowl ring as the waterboy. I'd wear the grace of God proudly; but also knowing I'm not a significant individual. I didn't earn it, but I'm counted amongst them.

[@1allspub]

This video clearly and succinctly shines a light on the root problems of Calvinism. Thank you.

[@lenfloth3636]

Panel members seem to think they are the only ones who understand scripture and those who reject calvinism are ignorant of the scriptures. Sounds pretty arrogant to me.

[@johnsponsler5050]

well done. Thank you!

[@sethpawlik]

God in His sovereignty has given man the opportunity to accept God’s grace for eternal salvation.

[@endtimesareuponus8930]

Calvinism is Satanic

[@peteslager]

Hello all, I had a grandfather who I asked if he was going to Heaven. He was a staunch Calvinist. His answer to me was that he would not know if he was Heaven bound, his answer was that he would not know until he got there. What a way to live. He did not know if he was truly saved because of God's election.

[@rodrocketon9480]

Calvinism serves one purpose: it provides a false escape from the fact that it is very difficult to live a holy life - and yet that is what God commands. It is much easier to invent doctrines that align with your ungodly living than it is to let the Holy Spirit transform you so that your living aligns with God's command to be holy.