Why do Russian Soldiers Raise Their Elbows and Reload the AK Holding at Its Handguard

[@casperarms]

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[@petesheppard1709]

The raised elbow is a traditional precision shooting stance. With older, more powerful rifles that recoil harder, it forms a bigger, more solid shoulder 'pocket' for the rifle stock when aiming. Using the right hand to change magazines and operate the charging handle is an artifact from the days of bolt action rifles, where the bolt handle was on the right, convenient to the shooting hand. The left-hand loading and charging (and lowered elbow) became practical with lighter, less powerful assault rifles.

[@nam430]

you dont break your wrist to grip a traditional rifle like a mosin by raising your elbow

[@Trve_Kvlt]

It also in large part has to do with older firearms, such as the M1 Garand, K98k, Mosin, etc., having a more traditional stock as opposed to a pistol grip. The "chicken wing" serves to, as you said, form a better shoulder pocket but also to properly square up to a target. With a pistol grip it isn't needed, because it happens naturally due to the placement of your hand, and by extension, the rest of your arm. The chicken wing is just an artifact from older firearms, that is still unfortunately taught to new shooters to their detriment.

[@Synthetic-Rabbit]

If you don't have a pistol grip - it helps anchor the stock to your cheek. If you have a pistol grip, you don't really need to do it.

[@82ismi]

Operating with the right hand goes even back to the times of the flintlock musket.

[@petesheppard1709]

@@82ismi Yeah, they have to keep those creepy lefties in their place (I are one😜)!

[@blackhatch46]

We were taught this in the early 2000s in the Marines as well. Its just the older doctrine.

[@NightmareGbg]

Same with us Swedes in the 90s

[@victorkoropeckyj2771]

The elbow bit, or the reloading bit?

[@danielescobar7618]

Yes before they switched from bladed stance to reduce target area, to standing completely square to the enemy to face the most armor to them

[@beberforumer9715]

marines of what country?

[@charlescarter5069]

@@beberforumer9715 United States. Back before the excessive body armor we were trained to stand at an angle. You could use iron sites to hit a prone size target at 200 yards.

[@tomigun5180]

Neither of those questions are explained in the video. Amazing. Thanks for the comments of the viewers though, who explain what the video didn't!

[@LafayetteCCurtis]

Reloading with the right hand is more practical for conscripts handling the Kalashnikov. Most soldiers are likely to be right-handed so they're less likely to fumble and drop the magazines with their strong hand, and the position of the mag release lever also favours gross motor movements with the strong hand. Last but not least, it puts the right hand directly under the cocking handle once it has finished rocking the mag into the well, unlike a left-handed reload where the arm would have to reach around under or over the receiver and pull from an ergonomically less convenient angle. A fast reload is rather overrated in most infantry encounters outside close-quarters urban or trench combat anyway -- just yell "reloading," let the rest of the team cover you, and duck under cover to take your time to reload without messing things up. Not all countries have the funds or resources to train their infantry to the same extent the US or Western European countries do (something like two years before the infantryman is considered fully competent for a combat deployment, by which time most conscripts elsewhere would already be discharged from service).

[@andreybereznitskiy2316]

Another thing here is that that technic was adopted for a troops laying on the ground possibly under the enemy fire. This way you you keep a low profile just slightly turning on your left side. That means that your weapon (AK) is also is on its left side and right side up. This is why the charging handle is on the right side.

[@LeeviHokka126]

The "chicken wing" is a Cold War era shooting stance for M-16 shooters as well. I was trained to shoot like this while serving in the 1980s.

[@Yevgeny_N]

Standing sideways in the direction of the enemy reduces your silhouette. This is how soldiers were taught to shoot standing up when body armor was not yet used in the army. Try to turn sideways in the direction of the enemy and rest the butt of the rifle on your shoulder. You're not going to make it. To rest the butt of the rifle against the shoulder, you need to raise your elbow.

[@MarilynStangl]

Also, when standing with the left elbow down, the arm is partly covering the left side (if you're right handed) providing some protection to that side. Better to be shot in the arm than the chest, best to not be shot at all! With the right elbow 'chicken winged', there is more of a natural pocket for the butt of the rifle and when laying prone, that position allows you to lay a little lower than if your right elbow was pointing down. If the rifle has a pistol grip, in the prone position, the butt of the rifle will sit higher in the shoulder changing your cheek weld and your right elbow can get bruised from the repeated recoil pushing your elbow into the ground! Reloading with the right hand leaves your rifle better supported by your left arm and you don't have to rotate your upper torso so that the left hand can change the magazine!

[@user-ko5ul7yi1x]

Would attest to this. I traded a bb full auto sprays against a cheater at airsoft. I was wearing a shirt, denim pants and a gunbelt with m4 mag pouches. But the only bruises I got were my upper thighs and just one stray hit on my flesh-exposed wrist due to tucked elbows since I stood sideways. I could've gotten riddled with wounds to the chest had I not been standing sideways.

[@user-nikkebot]

the curve on the mag is comfortable for long run because c-clamping long time can be exhausting, but for the chicken wing was exist on the soviet manual

[@codemy666]

Curve in the mag has fuckall to do with it

[@JohnDoe-mp1yn]

​@@codemy666 it's more comfortable to do the mag grip on a curved mag than it is on a straight mag. it's just physics.

[@codemy666]

@@JohnDoe-mp1yn Must have some goofy ass hands then

[@danielfilippov7354]

@code he's right tho about physics but only if your left hand(if right handed) is right in that corner between barrel and mag. Otherwise it doesn't work because when your left hand holds the mag lower than the right, it feels off, less control and overall less secure grip especially when firing. The main point of curved mags tho is to avoid grabbing your gear or clothes since the bottom tip is pointed away while still having ammo of a longer mag that might get stuck on your loadout, things don't get in the way especially when bending your body when kneeling. Also helps stay lower when shooting prone.

[@codemy666]

@@danielfilippov7354 Goofy ahh hand havin ass

[@JohnPartin515]

We also cant forget the fact that when your training tons of people, a simple easy dumb downed firing position is an amazing base to build more skills off of

[@MrPanos2000]

Its neither dumb nor frowned upon by anyone other than Amerimutt tacticool larpers

[@elihu217qd5150]

I had always ‘chicken winged’ my rifle. It isn’t until the last several years or so that people tell me that’s no longer the correct way to hold a gun.

[@manchagojohnsonmanchago6367]

The chickenwing was popular in the 70s and80s in europe and america too sas did it

[@BeepBoop2221]

The chicken wing is a holdover from rifle stocked doctrine vs pistol grips, its still taught with rifles like the m14. The magazine hold is because its comfortable.

[@gerfand]

The Reload is pretty pratical and people overrated the idea of "finger on the fire control at all times" to start no you are not sundenly slower because you reload right handed, specially when you consider that its better to charge the AK with your right hand not your left hand. but you can be faster with "slower method" if you have pratice with it.

[@burt2800]

This. Also, I imagine telling tens of thousands of recruits to take their hand off from the trigger while reloading, when inexperienced shooters might point the gun everywhere could be good for safety.

[@markwarnberg9504]

The Chicken Wing goes way back when there were bigger calibers with heavy recoils + the sighting position, if not held in the raised position the recoil could knock your should joint out of place. In sighting you basicly sight down the barrel, if the shoulder is droped the head has to drop as well. The raised sights that came out with the M16 help to help to eliminate the problem. The 50cal machinegunners had shoulder problems because they couldn´t get the stock into the shoulder pocket.

[@davesherry5384]

It's not strange at all. Most of the very best shots I know use the high elbow for off hand shooting.

[@randomargument972]

Don't take my word for it, but i believe it's done because when you teach someone new who never shot a gun, to raise elbow up, is so that his buttstock doesn't fly off sideways/slip his shoulder to the side. I remember some "fail compilation" videos, people shouldering a rifle and the gun slips their shoulder. So i gues it's purpose is so that buttstock doesn't slip your sholder to the side. It's especially present in larger calliber rifles, shotguns etc.

[@sgt.grinch3299]

Making a shoulder pocket was taught as doctrine. It was canceled because better sighting systems require you to bear down upon the weapon.

[@svyatovrat4071]

My father has served in the soviet army and he holds weapons the way he was instructed then. He was surprised to learn from me that it's an outdated technique and rarely anybody ever does it this way for the same reasons listed in this video.

[@sharifbukhari7926]

Chicken wing was a common technique in the most countries. Because it was good for high recoil weapons and created a better shoulder pocket if you’re wearing old school body armor (square plates, not a SAPI/Swimmers cut).

[@_info1167]

Most special forces operate in urban and tight environments where they often have to hold their rifles in a standing position. The regular infantryman is often lying on the ground as to not get hit by shrapnel or enemy fire. Now try to reload an AK pattern rifle with your left hand while lying on the ground and you quickly notice that using your right hand instead is more logical.

[@crusader.survivor]

I've used the "chicken wing" method when I was practicing in gun ranges in ROK. I've noticed that it makes recoils more controllable and is better for people with less upper body strength.

[@murozvi5898]

This stuff can only make a difference in counter terror ops

[@K4TAKAN]

Because it is effective. Which is more important than looking tactical with a weapon

[@casperarms]

Short answer. No.

[@K4TAKAN]

@@casperarms whatever

[@motorstormer0898]

@@casperarms The chicken wing method is used due to older styled non pistol grip rifles, which are supposed to be shouldered that way. The stance was simply brought over mostly due to just not feeling like changing it, and the fact that the AK Used to still be in a larger caliber. As for charging with the right hand, there really is no difference if you do it the "tacticool" way with your left hand, or if you do it with your right hand. It all works the same.

[@beberforumer9715]

the old school stance has some logic. keeping the elbow down is good for light recoils, but what if the soldier suddenly pick up a shotgun or grenade launcher in the battlefield? shoulder up is best stance . right hand cocking: m16 cocking piece is hard using weak hand, same with heavy rifle like the BAR. the principle, especially of red army, is that training of a wide range from spetznaz to vietcongs girls must be uniform en masse

[@EzekielDeLaCroix]

That's just a gimmick, sonny.

[@immikeurnot]

It's a throwback to traditional straight or semi-pistol grip stocks. Having your elbow raised with a pistol grip is actually less steady.

[@SniperFallen06]

The chicken wing posture has been used by most countries in the last century

[@ristorasanen2111]

AK has it's charging handle on the right side, someone could even argue that it's supposed to be operated with right hand instead the American operator way of reaching over or under the rifle. Really loading a mag to AK pattern rifles with right hand is way easier than to do it with your left hand. Most people are right handed so thay are less likely to mess it up than trying to do it with left hand. Inserting magazine and racking the bolt lands your hand really close to the pistol grip and trigger and you maintain aproximate sight picture during loading. It all is pretty much one motion when you get it right, and it's much easier to get it right using right hand than left. Also when loading you risk no accidental disscharges because your hand is nowhere near the trigger before you are ready to shoot. You maintain better control of your rifle when you don't need to shoulder it again, you leave the rilfe where it is and just reload. The American way of reloading with left hand seems to have zero benefits other than adaptable mussle memory of operating a rifle of different pattern. At my time in military i always reloaded with my right hand, because it is the right way of doing it. The wing stuff i don't know about. But it really makes very little difference exept for close guarters and peeking around the corners, arm is the same size no matter where it is and is just as likely to being it.

[@08101972]

The most correct way to replace the magazine on an AK is with the right hand. There are several reasons for that First of all, all controls on the rifle are on the right side, there is no magazine button on the left side of the rifle, no bolt release button on the left side. Second, the AK is a rifle intended for the regular soldier, where handling safety and practicality come first. In the end, the common soldier is not on the firing range, but on the front line. When the magazine is empty, take cover, load the rifle, keep shooting or lock it.

[@Yevgeny_N]

When reloading a rifle with your right hand, you don't waste any more time than if you were reloading with your left hand. The absolute majority of soldiers in Russia are right-handed. You reload the rifle with your main hand, which makes it easier for you to carry out all manipulations. Moreover, in combat conditions, the recharge rate does not matter.

[@Khoros-Mythos]

It absolutely adds time. You can fire one handed the second you charge the weapon with your left hand in an emergency, if you charge it with your right hand you cannot fire until your main hand is back on the trigger.

[@Yevgeny_N]

@@Khoros-Mythos There is no gate delay in the AK74. After changing the magazine, it is necessary to move the bolt carrier to the rear end position. In this position, the shooter's hand is next to the rifle holding handle. Release the bolt and while the bolt moves to the extreme forward position and sends the cartridge into the chamber, your hand grabs the handle of the rifle hold. There is no delay in shooting if you do everything right. Moreover, it would be easier and faster for a right-handed person to reload a weapon with his right hand.

[@immikeurnot]

@@Yevgeny_N You have better control over the rifle by holding the pistol grip while reloading. It's a lot harder to load on the move if you're hanging on to the handguard, especially with an AK where you can't clamp your hand over the top or you're going to get burned. It probably doesn't make a lot of difference time-wise, though. AKs are slow to reload thanks to the paddle latch, the rock and lock magazines, and no last-round hold open. Even IF you don't have to react to a click, 3 seconds from an open-top magazine pouch is about as good as it gets with the platform.

[@Yevgeny_N]

@@immikeurnot Not true. AK is easier to charge by holding it by the forearm. To reload the AK by holding it by the handle, you need to hold the butt under your armpit, otherwise it will constantly outweigh forward. especially if a silencer or a grenade launcher is installed on the AK. AK can be recharged as quickly as AR, it's all about training. You can search for KZbin videos on this topic. Similar experiments have already been conducted.

[@immikeurnot]

@@Yevgeny_N No, the AK can't be reloaded as quickly as the AR. I own both, have shot both on the clock, and have reloaded them on the clock. The AK's reload sequence sucks. Yes, you have to tuck the butt against your body. And? You have to do that if you hold the handguard. It's still more controllable to hold the pistol grip. You're not going to see sub-2 second empty-chamber reloads on an AK platform rifle. It's physically impossible to do.

[@b.p.stimemachines2327]

That chicken wing shit comes from before rifles had pistol grips, and that’s how you had to hold them for example I chicken wing SKS for an M1 a ear in 1 g but an AR an AK I’m not and it just comes naturally

[@dangerousfreedom4965]

It works good for high recoil weapons

[@albinoasesino]

It is possible to positively integrate chicken winging into your combat drills, however this only works if your team does not get wiped and you are always working and training with the same few buddies. A theory is, the elbow in CW provides a physical contact point with your buddy's side in close quarter clearing for areas where more than one person can walk in (i.e. a school hallway). The idea is that you want to prevent accidental flagging of your buddy, as such, a physically contact point between the elbow and the side of your ribs can be established to ensure that both individuals can signal their intent to move in or out of their buddy's direct line of fire. Flagging your buddy is something that can happen when both individuals are highly focused on what is happening on the opposite end rather than who is around them, such as an hostage rescue situation. To be more clear, see 3:11. While the theory I described earlier does not really apply to firing behind cover, if you imagine this to be hallway instead, a (imaginary) buddy on his left can have his right elbow come in contact with the left side of that individual. If the individual moves left, the buddy would feel that he is trying to move left and then react to it. Similarly, the other way around.

[@Precisionstriker]

Because that’s what the manual of arms told them to do when it came out.

[@Precisionstriker]

And they dare not contradict the communist leaders. They know what happened if you asked questions.

[@Precisionstriker]

You fool quit with the smart ass answers! Wait for the video to be released it is going to be top Tier content! 19 minutes left until it starts!

[@user-nikkebot]

for the chicken wing? yes but not the mag hold

[@Precisionstriker]

@@user-nikkebotI absolutely agree with you on that. I have experienced that when I hold the handguard and keep the stock firm in my shoulder the reloads are quick and effective. Or I’ll hold the charge handle back with my right hand and reload the mag with my left

[@user-nikkebot]

@@Precisionstriker and also the reason is that back then a lot of rifle was reload using dominant hand so make sense to reduce time stretch with learning again using support hand like the west did

[@jamesomaha5330]

This was the same way I was thaught during the 1990's in the Netherlands with the FN Fall. Although we were taught to remove the magazine with the left hand. These days they use a total different weapon.

[@bringer-of-change]

I was taught by an army sniper how to shoot when i was twelve. Im thirty one now. I was taught to keep my elbow close to the body. It doesn't feel intuitive to me to hold my elbow out like that. Not to hold the weapon up to my shoulder OR to pull it into my shoulder. That doesn't feel right to me at all. Best to keep elbows down. Not only does it shrink your silhouettes profile, but it actually is alot more comfortable. I suppose thats just my opinion though.

[@insanogeddon]

The 'old way' has been proven in more equal contests with artillery a constant. If you are sneaking up on barely armed and underfunded rebels the 'new way' gets results.

[@1111Tactical]

Police in the US also chicken winged until very recently. Here the technique is associated most with 90's SWAT teams

[@johannr2658]

I think it‘s just more comfortarable. Even tho I have an M16A3-M203 as my favourite airsoft rifle I also raise my elbow cause I find it more comfortarable.

[@dannygjk]

iirc using the chicken wing was common back in the old days for hunting. I think it started over one hundred years ago.

[@quanghuynguyenang8455]

Everyone do chicken wing even the pistol grip was introduced to prevent this stance... Chicken wing was a common practice since WW2 still applied today

[@zrikizrikic9126]

Raised elbow has role,when patsir and gas mask ,ammo ect you cant always line up elbow,but uf you always raise elbow...

[@Matt-md5yt]

sweet. glad I got to learn this

[@matthewwagner47]

It's not a trench technic. Its a old soviet video. A heavy recoil rifle, you find your best chicken wing to recover from the 7x62mm round. Fire a 5.56mm then a 7x62mm its a big difference.

[@tvtechanic8332]

Họ phát minh ra AK, và họ biết làm cách nào để sử dụng nó.

[@NAVYABHAN]

You make sense!

[@Dukester61615]

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it

[@pewpewbbqs]

It's so weird to see Russian soldiers using Eotechs... I mean they're great optics but I would think Russia wouldn't use USA made optics, I figured they would have their own

[@ottersirotten4290]

Its not uncommon to replace parts of youre standard Issued Combat Gear with privatly bought Stuff, guess thats the Case here

[@pewpewbbqs]

@@ottersirotten4290 makes sense

[@bugstomper4670]

Why hold the magazine when shooting? So it can jam?

[@froginthewaves8450]

AWESOME VIDEO

[@AlexVaiphei]

Chicken winged technique is, for beginners once u know ur guns u can hold at anyway you want to.

[@Testbug-dy6tj]

Don't get me wrong, i still gave a thumbs up on this video.

[@mussydesign7933]

you only raise yr elbow when you have yr body mass leaning forward of yr feet

[@birbikramgogoi2451]

See a good ENT surgeon dear

[@kukukaka968]

a kid who has never seen combat is making videos roasting soldiers what a joke

[@carlgustafemilmannerheim9360]

when you think about it militaries and construction work is very similar the old guys who sont want to learn new things teach young guys that the new things are shit

[@-C0mr4d3_C0VID]

7:07 what weapon is that?! Mosin bolt but it doesn’t look like a Mosin rifle?

[@casperarms]

You may be surprised, but this is not a weapon :) I'm serious, it's some kind of flare gun or something. To be honest, I can't find any information about it, but it's meant to be a signal. It seems to be used in the communications forces

[@nam430]

old soviet manual of arms

[@ianloughney9570]

4:33 Keymod Chad spotted

[@immikeurnot]

Home Depot shelving slots?

[@gardnert1]

The do the chicken wing because they have no idea how to shoot.

[@mari.be.86]

From this video, I have the feeling that the average Russian soldier has worse training than a civilian from Europe or the US, who regularly goes to the shooting range to train with an instructor. On average, I spend about $250 a month on training, pistols, and ARs. So I make about 500 rounds a month. How many shots does a Russian soldier have?

[@dovahkiin5773]

In my country (South america) the minimum wage is 350 usd (higher than Brasil and argentina), a single 9mm bullet is 1.5 usd, a glock 19 is around 2000 usd. We dont have a gun culture here sadly and everything is expensive.

[@Mortablunt]

You’re the exception. Between budgeting and time constraints, I only get two range visit per month and the average is about 100 shots for the handgun and 60 shots for the rifle. I work with weapons professionally, and I know a lot of coworkers who train just barely enough to pass their licensing qualifications, and out of the general gun owner population, I would be shocked if more than one tenth did any shooting more than once a month, and that may be only 1% even does real training just annually. Real quality training and even just maintenance Takes a lot of time and money. This is also true for armies.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

shooting is not the only part, not even the most important part, of training for actual combat. US infantry only shoot about 600 rounds during basic training (sometimes more, usually less than 1000). ie about 60 to 100 rounds a week (or about 260 to 430 rounds a month).

[@mikhailkrevskiy4849]

Well, that depends. Regular conscripts in a full year of service can shoot between 6 rounds (3 training and 3 assessed) up to 2 mags. Conscripts in more elite froces, like VDV, shoot way more (few mags per month). Volonteers to war training also varies. They do shoot a lot (few mags per day). But sometimes they get around 2 weeks of training, sometimes 2 month. After that they are send on the front and continue their training there.

[@immikeurnot]

Most soldiers in the US or Europe are not as good with guns as civilian enthusiasts are...

[@Mrgunsngear]

🦅

[@danielmannelig1677]

chicken wings

[@zbigniewszymanski7089]

I'm afraid you are making one fatal mistake my friend, russian army is far from special forces or even regular army from west. Your argument against side stand pose is less protection from vest but look at russians in Ukraine they usually don't have protective equipment so both front and side of body is equally non protected. From the other hand you said that front standing when leaning forward makes you smaller target, well side standing makes you even smaller so side standing isn't that bad then I guess?? About quicker reload with left hand I'm sorry to say that but it's a bullshido stuff for a regular soldier, I can see that split of a second being somehow usefull for spec ops operator but honestly reloading ak platform is way easier with right hand. For m 15 m 16 platform ok left hand reload is usefull but ak is different gun and was make with righthand reload in mind. Lots of things we took for granted in western world in times of war on terror are not so obvious and good in large scale war and in not so well equipped mass armies.

[@abudankmeme1477]

i like you interesting

[@bennymountain1]

Russian small arms training in the conscript army is a joke. Here's another example: in a handgun manual it is advised to aim to the 11 o clock of the target to compensate for jerky pull and nose dive. Not a single word in that manual on actually practicing your trigger pull. The "special forces" you show here are FSB, an entirely separate (and competing) department from the army. They have their own doctrines developed entirely separately. At this point it's pretty obvious that Russian army is being ran by r***rds, so no surprise here.

[@barbarapitenthusiast7103]

Is this handgun manual in the room with US right now?

[@f1r3hunt3rz5]

It doesn't really matter, honestly. What matters is the baffling tactics they used throughout this conflict.

[@kingnevermore25]

Ukrainian accent detected opinion rejected

[@TheTeKuZa]

How can you tell

[@126theman]

Thousandth like

[@Testbug-dy6tj]

Why delete my comment. It ws a Skyrim joke. It wasn't dirty or mean or violent or anything like that.? Sorry but I unsubscribe because My comments are deleted.

[@jamesgeorge9467]

Do you realise it was more likely youtube deleting your comment?

[@Testbug-dy6tj]

It's KZbins problem.

[@bliecoug1029]

​@@Testbug-dy6tjis youtube itself that deletes comments randomly

[@Testbug-dy6tj]

@@bliecoug1029 randomly..? Why randomly? But I don't know that.

[@casperarms]

Hi! I did not delete your comment, but I do not see it among the potentially unacceptable ones in the creative studio of the channel. Try writing it again

[@gadjia61]

Because russian army is always late for new things, corrupted to the bones and have not enough good instructors. Nothing to say about worthlessness of soldier's life to the commanding officers too.

[@TheTeKuZa]

Nice coping

[@alphaomega154]

do you know why? because their communist overlords say so. you are not expected to question why if you are russian soldiers. you are expected to do as they say.

[@barbarapitenthusiast7103]

You are 33 years late my guy. Also you might have forgoten on of Maos most well known books "criticism and self criticism"

[@pyeitme508]

Ha