Why do the Chinese Think Simu Liu is Ugly? Chinese Beauty Standards. Intermediate Chinese.

[@Ldancingcat]

I feel bad for Simu Liu that he has to hear these criticisms about how he's ugly. Can you imagine you get a dream role and you have to listen or read that crap? That's just f'ed up. Same for Awkafina.

[@vrinkee]

Idk about Awkwafina. I love her acting, but she really doesn't seem to look more than average to me. I'm half Asian and have a lot of asian friends and family. Plenty of them look more attractive to me than she does. But in the end, it's a matter of preference. It's definitely not acceptable to directly message a celebrity and bully them, or make messages hating on them for their looks alone widespread.

[@Ldancingcat]

@@vrinkee I'm not saying she's beautiful or not. I was just saying it's messed up how people are complaining how ugly she is. Like why does it matter? She's talented and funny. It's just cruel to say those things about her.

[@vrinkee]

@@Ldancingcat Ah, ok. I agree with that, but wasn't sure if you were implying they were super good looking or not. Yeah, they don't deserve that, or anyone really. Acting is acting, and they're good at it.

[@Ldancingcat]

@@vrinkee Exactly

[@DragonRider520]

@@vrinkee I agree Awkwafina is no more than average looking. Its mostly her mouth. She has what is known as Bimaxillary protrusion. But they were selected more based on their personality and acting, less on look.

[@Leguinan]

I am latin, and I say that Simu Liu looks quite handsome to me. He is handsome exactly because he retains very masculine features. He does not have big eyes, like, he did not have a double eyelid surgery, which often leads to slightly weird results, did not lift his nose bridge, like many asian actors clearly did, he has nice simetry, he is not bulky or thin, he looks simply a fine, clean cut, active, athletic male specimen, and that is very attractive for most women. And he has appeal.

[@massalleh5255]

Well to be fair. Chinese actors like Daniel Wu or Wang Lee Home are natural gifted with double eyelid. No surgery

[@Ldancingcat]

Actually a lot of Chinese have natural double eyelids, at least half I think, but people outside of Asia think we all need plastic surgery to have double eyelids or big eyes. That's not true.

[@alphach1mp]

It isn't the eyes although it is considered attractive by all Western cultures as a smoldering look or sexy. Dude got a strong jaw line, symmetric face, a full head of hair, a nice smile, some facial hair, isn't that what makes a guy good looking?

[@Ldancingcat]

@@alphach1mp I think standards are different in China and other parts of Asia. Big eyes, a narrow oval face, high nose bridge are the preferred look. Look up Geoffrey Gao and Jackson Wang.

[@MaximSupernov]

He is like a younger version of Xi Jinping

[@rainyfriday6175]

I think the best thing about the cast was how normal they looked. Liu and Akwafina looks like just regular Asian people you would find in San Francisco. Even Tony Leung had the air of a middle aged Asian father who would beat your ass if you stepped out line.

[@Jumpoable]

LOL thank you for appreciating regular Asian lewks.

[@heyitsmezeni]

100% agree!! It was so refreshing to see regular looking Asian folks being the superhero/ main characters of the show for once :D makes it feel so much more relatable and I guess representative to the community which I think is a great way this film will bring for the next generation ^ v^ "yey a superhero who is like me" or a "a badass regular girl who is so smart and cool" ~ I think that just makes the film that tiny bit more special.

[@pirapatxie8897]

tony leung looks exactly like my dad lol

[@justindenver5692]

You made the point, to be honest, Simu Liu is NOT ugly in most Chinese's eyes. He is just way too ORDINARY to a Superhero movie..What made Chinese people( probably most of the Mainland Chinese) feel offensive is this movie choose a VERY ORDINARY guy to act as a superhero. Why dont Hollywood choose a normal mid-aged caucasian to play Captain America? Obviously Chris Evans is not an ORDINARY looking American guy that you can meet in street everyday.

[@heyitsmezeni]

@@justindenver5692 what about the recent captain America from the mini series ~ Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[@yamkelasanelisiwengceke3922]

As an African Black woman, I think he is handsome, in fact i find him attractive with all his features he is masculine and has nice jaw line.

[@PHlophe]

Sanelisiwe, he reminds me of a San guy frankly. i had worked out that the chinese would not find him attractive or perceive him as "shade2 toward chinese beauty standards. He has the "one of the though" guys look and is kinda suiave too.

[@marylandgirl9246]

Same here. I'm seriously confused. To me, he's definitely good-looking.

[@jrmint2]

Yes! Jawline and nose is the most important features for handsomeness :D

[@tmmartinesq.6216]

No one beats Bruce Lee in looks.

[@PHlophe]

@@tmmartinesq.6216 he was a quarter dutch

[@beautifulskiy434]

To be honest, at least for me, Simu is an average looking Asian man. I wouldn't say he's really drop down handsome, but with his hot body, cute personality, and sexy voice, he's truly a hot guy to me now lol.

[@tmmartinesq.6216]

Yes, I agree he has a great body but not the face.

[@saracruze2212]

👍

[@rbaet3465]

He looks like skinny version of prim minister xi

[@rockthecasbah6450]

Not trying to be mean here. But in Asia, specially in the Borneo part of Asia. We have lots of mixed Chinese and most of their physical features ran the gamut from the fairest, most typical Chinese looking to the more Eurasian features, and darker shades of native Borneon looking Chinese. Me personally, I don't look Chinese because of my mixed parentage. I have big eyes with double eyelids, button nose and is quite fair if I don't go under the sun too much. I was called a mutt by the more pure blooded Chinese, whether out of jealousy or simply because they were trying to demean me. My paternal grandfather, who was from China, was quite dark, with monolid and typically what the western perceived the Chinese to be like. My maternal grandmother on the other hand, who was a native Borneon, was very fair and has monolid too.

[@skylight_gameuse]

true and there are guys who look handsome but they seem so rude and arrogant, they have nothing interesting to say, they're boring. A man like who's got a personality is more attractive than an empty shell

[@brendawilliams5182]

Feminized males are particularly attractive to pre-teen and teen girls because they are just male enough and not intimidating by being “overly” male. It’s more of a youth culture thing than a true standard of attraction.

[@junnaredd9912]

@This Monk You really didn't get what the OP meant. You have misunderstood the 'feminine' part. Most male pop groups/teen idols be it west or east, have more softer look even if they are in their 20s. These men don't grow beards, or look very stereotypical masculine, like bikers or wrestlers. There are 2 reasons for this. One, young girls don't feel comfortable with men who emits too much of masculine aura. Beards,moustache and body hair are considered to be gross for most of them. The second would be the fathers. They feel their daughters' chastity can be in 'danger' (sounds crazy),and father feel threatened by other men's masculinity. How dare an adult man taking over my teenage daughter's mind? So teen daughters fangirling over adult teen idols looking like high schoolers are to be seen as less threatening. It's just a cute and childish hobby.

[@queerlibtardhippie9357]

@@junnaredd9912 If that were even a little true, 13 year olds would've been killing themselves in hoards just to get away from their arranged marriages. Grown women are actively lusting over these "feminine" men as I type. It's not even a rare thing. You can literally go to any one of these people's concerts and find a large groups of 25+ year olds who don't have a kids with them. People like fantasy. You do not understand the modern fantasy.

[@niamtxiv]

Exactly

[@lungchan1729]

@This Monk I didn't know who who that Wang yibo was. Have to google it. He certainly look very feminine in my eyes. Not assertive at all like you said. That's my opinion.

[@junnaredd9912]

@@queerlibtardhippie9357 I have no idea where's that 13 year olds would kill themselves in hoards come from? Care to explain. About older women 'lusting' for feminine men, it's matter of preferences. Some women like them and some hate them. Facial hair is always been tied to masculinity, though a clean shaven men with strong features (any race) can be seen as masculine. There're Asian men who can't grow full beard even if they want to because of genetic. Also, I am being specific on teens and young adult women, because they are the target markets to promote young idols. Straight clean shaven Young men with make up, eye liners to promote beauty products in advertisements.You don't see this in western media. Culturally, Indian and Middle Eastern girls don't mind facial hair and prefer their men to be more manly but things are changing because of Korean wave. Where did you get the idea that I don't understand modern fantasies? Why Robert Pattinson had to be clean shaven and look more feminine to play Edward Cullen? Would his scruffy look work? Twilight was created to appeal modern girls fantasies. Read my first comment again.

[@EugWanker]

Yes, Simu Liu's looks got a lot of complaints in Asia (with some completely bizarre conspiracy theories about his looks thrown in), but as he said himself, film casting isn't just about looks. Shang-Chi was a very physical role, and I suspect a lot of the thinner, more feminine looking actors wouldn't have been able to handle it very well. Having the lead actor do so many of the stunts competently himself really elevated the action scenes of this movie. Furthermore, it's an American movie, and it makes sense to have someone that speaks North American (Canadian) English completely fluently. I suspect finding a competent actor who can actually act, speak fluent Mandarin and English, who has good chemistry with Awkwafina, and who has the physicality for the role, really reduced the available pool of actors. Plus people in the West generally consider him good looking too anyway. As you said, Westerners often like that buff look in their leading men, and of course there is the obligatory gratuitous no-shirt scene in the movie. BTW, as an example of the physicality required: There is a scene when he jumps off the front of the bus, grabs onto a bar at the side, and swings down to crash into the door. He does this stunt himself. Yes it's with a safety line, but a lot of actors would not be able to do this convincingly well. There is a behind-the-scenes video clip that shows him doing this in practice and it's quite impressive. P.S. It's interesting that you mentioned Daniel Wu in your video. Daniel Wu certainly has the physical capability to do these stunts, and in fact likely is better suited in some regards. For that reason, many people mentioned him as more appropriate for the role. What they completely forgot though is that Daniel Wu is already in his late 40s. Marvel characters are often in the movies for a decade or more, so Daniel Wu as Shang-Chi just wouldn't make any sense, as he'd be pushing 60 by the time he's finished. Also, I don't know if someone like Daniel Wu would handle comedy as well, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt there.

[@vanyathekat4707]

I feel like Daniel Wu will be in the future MCU movies with Shang Chi. May be he will play villain.

[@akunbuangan2992]

If you follow current Kpop flower boys trend in China, actually Ludi Lin who played Zack in 2017 Mighty Morphin Power Rangers or Liu Kang in 2021 Mortal Kombat would be better choice. He only need to put some kpop make up on his face and set his hair on certain hair style to shut up Chinese girl who gave Simu Liu 3/10 score in Asian Boss interview. He is also Mainland China born and can do stunt work like Simu Liu but I don't know about how fluent he in Mandarin. Other choices are Yoshi Sudarso (Blue Ranger in Power Rangers Dino Charge) and Peter Sudarso (Blue Ranger in Power Rangers Ninja Steel) . Yoshi have natural double eye lid that favorable by Chinese audiece, can do stunt work (he started his career as stuntman), but may be slightly too bulk for flower boy. Peter have more flower boy look thanks to his smaller face and and v-shaped jaw bone. He also have slimmer Kpop Idol body type. But probably he is not as good as Yoshi, his big brother in stuntwork. Unfortunately both need intensive training in Mandarin language class since Marvel require Shang Chi to able to speak Mandarin, and they are Indonesia born Chinese that unable to speak any Chinese languages because anti-ethnic Chinese policy in Indonesia from 1965-1998. So, Who said you can't have flower boy who can also do stuntwork? Power Rangers franchise already hired 3 flower boy passing actors for a Ranger role. But, yeah. Simu Liu isn't bad choice for Shang Chi role if you imagine Shang Chi looks is resembling war deities statue in Chinese temple like Guan Yu.

[@paynoattentionplease]

​@@akunbuangan2992 Marvel casts on far more than just looks and ability to do stunt work. I don't think you realized it but Ludi Lin DID audition for Shang-Chi and wasn't chosen. Simu got it because he fit the role all around. Ludi would nail the height, looks, and athleticism of the role, but he probably probably didn't hit the character beats as well as Simu did. Having the right personality / ability to really get into the characters gives you someone of the greatest unscripted moments in the MCU. For Shang-Chi, if you watch some of the behind the scenes stuff, Simu and Awkwafina did a lot of improv for their scenes. Also Simu has a lot of natural charisma and it shows in his interviews and interactions. People enjoy watching his interviews because he just has such a passion for Marvel movies that really shows. It's something Marvel really wants in their actors because it generates more interest in their movies. Like people love how the MCU actors interact with each other in REAL life too because they're just so fun to watch OFF camera too. Simu definitely has that - I don't know if Ludi does. The Marvel casting team (lead by Sarah Finn) is REALLY REALLY good. I don't think any of us can cast better than them especially seeing the results they've had so far.

[@akunbuangan2992]

@@paynoattentionplease It's OK for Marvel to cast Simu Liu as long they didn't say that they supposed to targeting China market in first place. Yeah, in the end Shang Chi is banned in China. I knew Ludi Lin was auditioned for Shang Chi role. Still, the way your actor looks is really important for Chinese market, even you said the actor have charisma, the impression that Simu Liu looks too old is still stick on Chiense audience mindset. I think Sarah Finn just stick to stereotypical Asian in Hollywood standard. Still not good for my standard, even if everyone said she is very profesional. For me her work for Shang Chi cast is amateur by simply cast actor that pass Asian Kung Fu Master stereotype. She is very bad to understand what Asian in Asia like.

[@bobaisbomb3818]

Can't agree more. Yifei Liu played Mulan and she's like the gold standard of Chinese beauty. Didn't stop the movie from turning into a big flop.

[@ivamnozaki1]

I'm Brazilian-japanese and I think Simu Liu has a normal face. My opinion this is great. It's like me or some friend suddenly becoming a super hero. It's really fantastic! The normal thing that happens with Caucasian heroes, they always choose that perfect beauty standard that is not the reality of most people.

[@EazyMandarin]

I agree with you.

[@simplica1]

😁Hehe... This one made me smile.

[@charleswang9874]

Thank you for the positive thinking! Now I don’t feel too bad about my big flat nose!

[@Bryan_Kenji_Watanabe]

Coreanos e chineses fazem tantas intervenções cirúrgicas que eles perderam a noção de como é uma aparência real de um asiático do leste.

[@ivamnozaki1]

@@Bryan_Kenji_Watanabe hahaha 🤣🤣🤣! Boa!

[@greenlilac32]

I’m very shocked to learn he is perceived that way in China!!!! To me and to those around me here in Cali he’s SUPER attractive Like a 10/10 attractive I didn’t know beauty perception could be so different

[@angeliquewu8318]

The biggest issue is his eyes. If his eyes were bigger, he would be considered attractive. But actually, I would say that attractiveness is not necessarily the issue; the main issue for most Chinese people is that casting him, who has small eyes, is perceived as a kind of stereotypical insult to Chinese people.

[@greenlilac32]

@@angeliquewu8318 oh wow! I guess that does make sense though. Hopefully one day (soon!) that idea/stereotype is just done away with. 🤞

[@byakugozen8334]

@@angeliquewu8318 his eyes wasn't an issue, stop the bull crap, his eyes are beautiful

[@angeliquewu8318]

@@byakugozen8334 What? I'm not saying that him inherently having those kinds of eyes is an issue, I'm saying that in general, the issue is because Chinese people think that by casting a person with smaller eyes, Marvel/Americans are trying to insult Chinese people.

[@Blanzalot]

@@angeliquewu8318 it's insulting to hear you say the chinese don't like themselves.

[@bigheadrhino]

The thing is, the fact that he is the star of a Marcel movie will naturally shift perception towards his look as being good looking. Why? Familiarity and exposure, and also because since a guy who looks like that can star in a Marvel movie, a guy who looks like that must be good looking. Aside from health indicators, looks are pretty damn subjective but usually follow the success of someone with a partifular look. Take Adam Driver for example, he’s a super weird looking guy and his face absolutely does not fit traditional male beauty standards, but he looks healthy and he was in a lopular tv show and then starred in Star Wars movies. Now he’s considered “hot” and chances are guys who look like him will now also be considered good looking. If he was never an actor and was a nobody on the street with a terrible job, poor health and bad personality, would he be considered attractive? Maybe on a 1 on 1 basis, wouldn’t would be attracted to him but in you walked around with his picture and asked women, they’d probably say he was ugly.

[@lowi2525]

Exactly. I have never really cared about him before he became a marvel superstar, probably simply because he wasn't good looking to me at the time. Now that he is, he suddenly appears extremely attractive to me. I'm pretty sure what you said somewhat plays a part.

[@mhlib7569]

Also, because society has this idea that "Heroes" are good -looking and marvel makes sure their actors fit a specific "look" for their male heros.

[@tacobrovo]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Simu Lu is handsome and masculine and that is the kind of man I would marry.

[@susan7374]

Exactly 💯😁

[@MsContralto]

Absolutely would marry him in a heartbeat

[@BoyG10]

I wouldn’t call him ugly but definitely not handsome at all. He is just someone you wouldn’t take a second look or admire at if he isn’t a celebrity. That’s about it.

[@stevekima8881]

Right...and the PPL claming here saying he's hot...if they have to choose over someone who has draw dropping look .they would say sipmui is average.

[@Xoxotho]

He’s my type lol so not everyone is lying. ❤

[@shedontknowbutsheknows6225]

Exactly. Those that are handsome for example Andy Lau, Hu Ge or Wallace Huo. Simu is just average at best.

[@saram.8671]

I remember seeing his picture from Comic Con and thought: Hmm... not so attractive (I'm actually really ashamed I was thinking like this). Then I also watched the trailer and was surprised they casted someone "average" like him. Now I've watched Simu in Kim's Convenience and saw Shang-Chi and guess what.. I find him super hot 😄🔥. Very interesting how it can change once you're more involved with a person. Now I look back and think why I found him not so attractive in the first place. But I guess it's because you look at all the other Marvel stars which are tall, super muscular and just feel their hotness from miles away and then they chose an actor that hasn't much acting experience, is very humble, down-to-earth, quite guy next door and you're confused that Marvel goes into another direction. But when you watch the movie you'll see why they chose him. He's just so good and very dedicated to his craft. Not that the other ones aren't but I feel that he's done way more stunts hinself then the rest of the "Avengers". I truly respect him.

[@ammygamer]

Hello! I'm brazilian and personally, I think that he is very charming. His natural, healthy complexion is considered extremely appealing here. No matter if you are plump or really thin, bronze or pale: if your skin and hair looks shiny, your eyes are bright, your teeth are healthy and straight and you look clean (even if dressed in very simple clothing) you are someone, at the very least, considered pretty here. Now, being charismatic too (even if in a goofy/shy way) that's the real traffic stopper.

[@easyalpha1]

Simu has a baby face....a gentle look. Extremely friendly. And every guy look most folks can relate too. He fits the Shang chi idea. Folks had issues with Kate winslet in Titanic, Carrie fisher as Leia in Star Wars...and even Harrison Ford as Indy...... Tom Selleck was up for that role. So in the end ...the final choice worked great.

[@easyalpha1]

Simu has his own cool look.

[@qr5vy]

This is shocking information to me, here in Europe he is considered very handsome, as in top-tier handsome. I think he's super hot 😂 Thank you so much for the video, it's was so interesting!

[@mims1992-y6c]

I’m shocked that people consider him to be “average” or “ugly”, I think he’s incredibly handsome. Not just physically but his presence, confidence and personality are huge factors as well.

[@fatcrruise6508]

No, just the chinese nowadays like feminine man

[@bellemah9234]

I am chinese, but I think he is hot🔥😍

[@rooooooby]

He is very average looking

[@LEThavFUNnSMILE]

It's interesting you say he has a northern Chinese look which seems to have some stigma around it , which would make sense considering the history like you mentioned with the people from step*. However like you mentioned he is a good looking man generally and a lot more relatable which for a superhero what you want rather than a more feminine superstar look as it does not feel as attainable. Thank you teacher for the insight much appreciated

[@EazyMandarin]

When I say he is like a northern Chinese, I didn't mean people from the steppe. In China, northern men are usually considered to be taller, stronger and more manly.

[@LEThavFUNnSMILE]

@@EazyMandarin oh i see thank you

[@maxom9816]

​@@LEThavFUNnSMILE Its funny that you mention step. When first trailer for Shang Chi appeared many Russian Speaking forums were joking "Congratulations Kazakhstan you have your Marvel Super Hero". Simu's broad, tall physic and rough face features its quite similar to Kazakh. He does look like some of my friends.On face he would be considered handsome as everyday guy but by body he sure is ideal since manly features are valued more in Kazakhstan.

[@alisha1377]

I agree to me he looks Northern Chinese, and he is from Harbin. I think it’s a nice representation of the area, perhaps it would be nice to hear what Harbin people or 东北人 think.

[@angeliquewu8318]

Northern Chinese as in Northeastern Chinese. It has very different connotations than people from the steppe.

[@hyang1980ify]

I'm upset they think this way. He is sooooo handsome. He's fine the way he is. He's real. ❤

[@Dragon-Lander]

For me, he is absolutely handsome, he can fight, he can dance, he knows acting, he has a beautiful muscular body

[@Neurotic013]

He is so handsome, hot even. I'm just in such disbelief that they would think him ugly 🤯

[@joy1ess]

he's not ugly. I didn't even know be was supposed to be ugly.. but he's not the typical look asian women tend to like. usually, asian women tend to go for tall, lanky men with softer boyish features, like anime.. not the big muscles facial hair scruffy type of men. This is the feedback I get from men here

[@joy1ess]

@Charles Huang the problem with sang chi isn't the actors.. it's just a truly god awful movie 😌

[@Aden_III]

@Charles Huang too average? Average where?

[@sagisdoodleverse9696]

@@Aden_III maybe she meant by average by entertainment industry standards.

[@rbaet3465]

He looks like skinny version of prim minister xi. You think xi is hot?

[@monstafloppa871]

I like how you articulated the ever changing standards that society holds both men and women to. The pendulum definitely swings back and forth over the decades, and seldom the same way from one part of the world to the other.

[@free_spirit2100]

This person explain about beauty standards like he is explaining about Stock shares and how to invest. Love it.

[@johncliffalvarez6513]

Hell, I’m a straight male and can acknowledge that Simu Liu is a very handsome guy. Much love for, Simu!

[@nitaBist]

WTH! I have followed him since Asian bachelor on KZbin. He is handsome and his personality makes him even more fine

[@doctor-aesthetic]

What I found interesting in some of the critiques I heard from people living in China, is that he looks like a stereotype. They seemed offended that Americans would cast based on physical stereotypes, like finding a Chinese man with small eyes and monolids and such. What's sad is that this critique is missing the very important context of the Chinese American experience, where many people who look like Simi Liu just don't see themselves represented in film much, if at all. It's exciting for a racial minority to see the things that make them unique in major characters in a huge franchise, especially for kids. I can guarantee you that there are Chinese American children with small eyes and monolids who are absolutely ecstatic that a cool new superhero looks like them. It's a huge boost for the confidence of these kids, especially the ones in communities that are overwhelmingly white. The Chinese experience is very different from the Chinese American experience. For a more personal take, I think Americans maybe have a much bigger spread, in terms of what various individuals find attractive in film stars. Usually if a man is physically fit, approachable, well-proportioned, and has a nice smile, women will find him attractive here. Even within the white Avengers, there's a big range in how the actors look. If you just look at the facial features and proportions of Jeremy Renner, Mark Ruffalo, Robert Downey Jr, Benedict Cumberbatch, and Chris Evans, they all look quite different from each other. I don't find every single one of them to be attractive, but they definitely each have huge female fanbases who think they're incredibly handsome. In terms of looks, I don't think Simu Liu was cast because he fits a stereotype. He was cast because he fits the American concept of handsome masculinity. Also he just had the perfect energy for the role. :)

[@EazyMandarin]

I agree with you.

[@broke_en_halo]

I love what u said, but he doesn't really fit in the shang chi role tbh, I think I liked doctor strange cast alot he actually fits in perfectly, literally looks like the comic book one

[@dasren]

The reason i used to be upset over this, is because we used to be made fun of for these stereotypical features and were called ugly, and when they first started casting these ‘stereotypical’ faces it felt like an insult, like they want chinese people to only be portrayed as the ‘foreign’ and ‘unattractive’ character. same in the modelling industry we see asians with these features (although its getting more diverse nowadays). i always felt as if they were trying to put us down ngl. this is kinda off topic but i felt like talking abt it to add on: Also in older hollywood movies, there would always be a Chinese restaurant scene where the manager is called Wong or something and there is dialogue of them speaking chinese to another employee, their chinese is never fluent. I feel like they cast nonfluent speakers to mock the chinese language and show it on the big screen how its not supposed to sound.

[@mnbr6884]

As an overseas Chinese, I don't think he looks stereotypical. The Mainlanders are only saying that because they think he's ugly.

[@samuraijosh1595]

@@dasren and how would you fight those stereotypes? By having a small eyed handsome Asian kick ass!

[@lizzyleea]

Imo he is like above average in terms of attractiveness. So he can definitely be considered good looking. He has strong facial structure and i think a lot of people are into that.

[@baizhuwaitingroom7057]

Very interesting analysis. I have to admit he's not really my type, but at the same time he also objectively isn't ugly, he's just more in line of what Americans like to see on the screen, and since I expect it's targeted towards straight men, this is what you end up getting. And to be honest I never thought twice about the size of his eyes, I didn't realise it was a big deal for some or that some people even consider them small. Personally I admit I appreciate modern xianxia and wuxia beauty standards for men very much, but interestingly not for women, and I say it as a bisexual man. I've briefly looked through some older 80s dramas, and while in modern wuxia my attention usually goes to men first and foremost, looking at the older ones, it's women. With the main exception being Dream of the Red Chamber, because both Jia Baoyu and Lin Daiyu are eye candy. XD It feels like modern beauty standards for women (the celebrities) in China force them all to be extra fragile and petite and doll-like, and they all share a lot of specific facial traits (men fit certain aesthetics too, but there's less restriction in terms of what a "perfect" face looks like imo) whereas back then, I don't know, more diversity was accepted? And they don't look like they're going to shatter any moment. That being said, looking at old wuxia, the actors they casted aren't that different from the Shang Qi guy. It's really fascinating to see how the beauty standards can vary and change depending on sociological and cultural context as well as the time.

[@EazyMandarin]

I agree with you in the woman casting nowdays, well, we Chinese also think there're actually less and less beautiful women in the TV nowdays as compared with the old wuxia time, in the 90s. It's very likely that the TV series cater to the women more, because they're the main customers of everything in China, so the female leads need to be fragile and petite and doll-like, and not that good-looking, so that the women audience can identify with themselves more.

[@akunbuangan2992]

Still in 90s we have Jimmy Lin who was well known for his flower boy looking which I think her younger self in 90s could pass for current Kpop trend by just add modern make up in his face. Jimmy Lin along with Alec Su (another flower boy looking actor) played Wu Xia series Handsome Siblings as lead role. So, actually HK-Taiwan entertainment already had flower boy actors before Korean wave.

[@hunhun1164]

@@akunbuangan2992 yes Alec Su was actually part of a boyband that copied from Japanese boyband company called Johnnys. Japanese boybands were the first in Asia and then kpop took it and added to it

[@hunhun1164]

@@EazyMandarin I actually don’t think the fragile and petite aesthetic is from Chinese girls... or if it is, very brainwashed girls by the patriarchical society... I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Chinese idol shows but for the girl ones all the popular ones (mainly voted by girls) are all cool, some very boyish

[@akunbuangan2992]

@@hunhun1164 Agree because Taiwan have better relationship with Japan than Mainland, of course I know that Little Tigers was mimicking Jhonny's Entertainment. I am even subscribe to Arashi channel.

[@pumpkinsandme6238]

I noticed korea has some actors with small eyes who are considered hansome. Such as Lee Joon-Gi and Hwang In Yeop. Though big eyes and double eyelids are still the desired look.

[@EazyMandarin]

Yes, Even Chinese think they're handsome.Maybe, because of the feminine appearance. You just can't make everyone like you.

[@pumpkinsandme6238]

@@EazyMandarin i have found it interesting how my own ideas of good looking have changed by watching tons of asian dramas. And things I found too feminine like the long hair on men in period dramas, I no longer see as feminine. I even got used to the Qing shaved hairstyle lol.

[@EazyMandarin]

@@pumpkinsandme6238 good to know that you even get used to the Qing shaved hairstyle.😄

[@akunbuangan2992]

Jeong Ji Hoon aka Rain also have small eyes and mono eyelid but he still have baby face looking. The problem for Simu Liu is he is not baby face enough for East Asian beauty standard. FYI, despite being popular actors, Jackie Chan actually played more comic relief character in his pre-Hollywood career because he is also not pass Chinese beauty standard. If you are looking for classic HK-Taiwan actors that pass Chinese beauty standard, try Aaron Kwok and Andy Lau, or Jimmy Lim and Nicky Wu. They have effeminite baby face looking but not as extreme as current Kpop trend.

[@hunhun1164]

@@akunbuangan2992 or just Tony Leung 😆

[@stella8519]

"Everyone has different beauty standards. Different people will find different people attractive" *a few minutes later* "All men prefer boobs and butts to skinniness"

[@sneed1162]

I know lol

[@blurdreamer]

Simu Liu is the type of actor that you need to see him in action in order to like him, from photo you think he is ugly, when he act in the movie, he look manly handsome.

[@claudeyaz]

Yeh when I see when Chinese denizens tell models they are "too ugly to represent China.." ugh it is depressing. Fashion models are supposed to look unique...not ordinary...with striking features. Why are slanted eyes? Or amazing cheekbones seen as ugly? Unless the whole world changes...China is gonna struggle until it learns to accept originally and individuality! The actor looks great! And no offense...besides like 2 female Chinese drama celebs... all of them look the same... not identical. But you can tell the talent agents all selected the actresses based on specific styles of facial features.

[@cassball7]

I’m a black woman that is learning Chinese and I watch a lot of Chinese dramas. I agree that many men in Chinese dramas are very feminine. SImu Li does not fit that mood. I don’t think he is ugly. He is attractive but not handsome in my eyes. Godfrey Gao was the most handsome man that I have ever seen! RIP! Chen Kun is so handsome and just can’t take a bad picture. Hu Ge, Guo Jianuo, Luo Jin and Tony Yang are just specimens to behold! Just my humble opinion!

[@EazyMandarin]

你知道好多中国男明星啊😄

[@cassball7]

@@EazyMandarin 对啊！There are a few I forgot like Zhang Bin Bin 😂

[@rbaet3465]

Godfrey gap is attractive to asian. It is not about being feminine but choose someone with extreme small eyes and flat face to represent asian.

[@cassball7]

@@rbaet3465什么意思？

[@shedontknowbutsheknows6225]

Can we add Wallace Huo to your list?❤🤤

[@bilahn1198]

Ugly???? He's one of the most gorgeous men I've ever seen.

[@bilahn1198]

@426firefly Is that your own opinion that you're projecting on everyone else?

[@alvinmah6148]

I wouldn’t say Simu Liu is handsome. But I think he is cool and has a great personality.

[@lc8945]

@426firefly I agree with you. He looks like my nerdy friend in Algebra class. He’s not ugly, but definitely not handsome either.

[@Drstrange3000]

Same, I'm completely flabbergasted!

[@popkhorne5372]

The distinction between more feminine men and more masculine men as apexes of male beauty also exists in the west. Usually women in the west (but that is generalising) prefer a good balance. Muscular, but not quite body builder like. Elegant, but not too feminine. Some virility, but not too much. A good jaw, but not too square. And of course people also like the extremes. After all we live in a society were both chalamet, bieber etc are considered handsome just as well as say, jason momoa or Henry cavill.

[@nevaehlheaven]

He has a nose like mine. But mine is straight down because of my Native American heritage. His is because of his ancestory, too. We should all love how we look because it all tells a story of where we came from.

[@iamsheep]

I feel like the beauty standards for men and their masculinity is affected by how much conflict the nation is in. Even in the open minded society of the Tang Dynasty, war, disease and death are still common place. A masculine man with physical strengths would be desired in such a time. I think that hypermasculine image was popular in China in the early half of the 20th century due to the decades of conflict and war. This has slowly changed over time as it has been at least 50 years of peach and gradual prosperity and a focus on a man's physical strengths fades.

[@KHRN2014]

Interesting, 🤍

[@sgcl10658]

Since ancient time, East Asian beauty standards prefer softer look aka scholar look due to the Confucianism ideology.

[@Mac_N_Cheezy]

I agree with everything you said in your video, unfortunately, not everyone is as logical or reasonable as you. I'm sure you can see from people's reaction online, they are mostly critical and mean regarding Simu Liu's appearance.

[@realistbird3415]

Actually, to defend Simu's looks (which are not at all bad), a lot of netizens started saying derogatory./shady things about other artiste/individuals "...i prefer Simu anytime to these plastic surgery boys/soft boys..etc" when in fact you could have just said you prefer this kind of feature over that kind of features.

[@Ubiquitous_1]

Im not Chinese but I think he's handsome and incredibly charming.

[@LilyUnicorn]

Everyone contemplating why pretty men is rising. Cause women like pretty faces. Male or female. Pretty faces always win over over manly, angry, rugged looks which are type specific whereas pretty is always pretty no matter what

[@DS11110]

Spiderman is supposed to be nerdy/goofy looking white guy and Toby McGuire fit the role for that. The most recent spiderman kid Tom Holland was also nerdy and fit the role. I always thought Andrew Garfield was the most handsome Spiderman, but my husband would say he isn't actually nerdy enough to be Spiderman. I hated so much on the Asian Marvel Shang Chi movie because I did expect like a better looking Asian cast not just ordinary. The older generation looked better. I suppose if he was supposed to just be an ordinary Asian American kid then it's fine. Hopefully Hollywood will cast like an Asian Chris Evans type hero one day, but it's hard to find people with looks and talent being the tiny Asian minority. Simu Liu grew on me as an Asian American with his personality and singing voice. He is Canadian :) I hated on Lucy Liu when I was younger and now I think she's beautiful! Asian American casting is tough. Crazy Rich Asians didn't disappoint me, but darker Asians are still not represented. Asians in Asia expect stars to be light skinned too. Beauty standards are very different in America for Asians. Sometimes choosing a mixed Asian is not Asian enough for Hollywood. Henry Golding was a handsome main cast in Crazy Rich Asians and he is mixed Asian too!

[@letssmile3564]

i'm a south east asian woman and i have a mixed east asia blood too from my dad. i could say simu liu is so handsome. maybe because i don't really like cutesy pretty boy look (doesn't mean they're ugly, they're also attractive but not my type). I mostly fell in love with those small eyes, for me it's so adorable.. especially when they smile.

[@heyitsmezeni]

I am not Chinese but my fiance is. Simu has very similar facial features and structure like my future husband. And I find him very handsome. Of course naturally I could be bias haha, but I have watched many asian dramas and movies where a lot of the "handsome" main characters are asian actors who have the "western" type of facial features that are seemed desirable (e.g - big eyes, double eyelid, chiselled jawline, bridge nose, etc) with additional "feminine" features. I know a lot of my asian friends who want to get plastic surgery to look this way. My fiance has very distinctive asian features (similar to simu liu) and what people in china call "stereotypical asian features". I think both men are very handsome. To me I think beauty is inside. You can be a very desirable looking human to the eyes of the majority, however if you are cold, evil, ignorant, superficial and too into yourself then you have an "ugly personality" and therefore - not handsome. Of course beauty standards are very different and change over time. Its amazing and also scary how much they change. I do not consider myself super attractive as I lack the "female beauty standards" here in the West (fox or almond shape eyes, v-jawline, small nose, tan skin, blah blah blah). However when I use to travel to Asia I was stared at a lot xD My asian friends wanted to look like me and I didn't understand see why :P I also have baby cheeks and pale round face which at school I was looked at as ugly, "too ill" or "too young". My Chinese in-laws however like my round face and cheeks and say I have a "moonface" which is considered beautiful, healthy and young (in a good way). Everything in the world is all about perspective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - what some see as ugly, some see as beauty and vice versa. Everyones preferences are different. But that doesn't mean we should call people out as ugly just because we do not see them in a particular way others do. If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it - simple as. Also after watching all these dramas and movies where asian characters are always cast with desirable western features that sometimes are too unrealistic or unnatural it was very refreshing to see Simu Liu here as a superhero. It is more relatable to the majority of people born in Chinese countries and shows a respect, love and pride to your natural born features. Also it makes the film way a little more relatable and natural to the character, That he is not a "perfect, Michael Angelo chiselled statue formed from the gods"... but a character like you and me. Flaws, imperfections, insecurities and a personality. Just like Simu said in a reply to a rude question asking him to change his looks on weibo- he said "some people like pizza, some like burgers - I was born this way and I like it and if you dont then thats okay" - just don't spread hate and tell people to change... :P" I am so happy that Simu is not falling for the negative comments or so called "constructive" criticism (telling him to change) that people are leaving. most of the times, this could get to people and could be very damaging to people who struggle with their self-esteem and looks. But I am happy that Simu seems to have good self-esteem and respect to himself : )

[@shelbydepierro9959]

wow! so interesting! thank you for sharing

[@Princess-xq8ks]

Well to be fair,your future inlaws are enamored because you are white lol.Asians in general are obsessed with Caucasians,they treat them like celebrities. So you won't have any worries there.Youre good.

[@sallylai535]

Very well said!! I gotta give you a high-five!!

[@heyitsmezeni]

@@shelbydepierro9959 hehe glad you found it interesting ~ happy to share 😊

[@heyitsmezeni]

@@Princess-xq8ks hehe I see your point there, that may be true ~ I did witness that feeling few times when I went to Asia and it was very awkward 😅 However I feel my features are far from your average Caucasian features that people would usually describe. I've got a bit of a mix... sometimes feel a little alien in this world ~ like I don't fit in ~ at school I never really did. But nowadays, I dont necessarily see that as a bad thing anymore and unlike before I don't feel the need to change it. I hope my personality is what they like more than my face :)

[@robiny1884]

Because there's tons of good looking aka handsome actors in Asia especially in China struggle to get a big role, some of them also have experience to live abroad, have high education and can speak multi langauge, they have big fanbase which always support. But then voila Disney chose Simu Liu, when not many Asian viewers know about him and his looks just average.

[@MzLeci]

Sometimes we forget that, like fashion, beauty standards have a season; thank you for pointing that out. I think Liu is very handsome, he has a similar muscular build to my husband. I was very sad to hear people calling him ugly.

[@tl5404]

I grew up in Asian and then migrated to the west in my teens. I can say that I myself found the conflict of attractiveness with simu. My first impression of him was based on my childhood subconscious beauty standard so I did not initially think he was attractive. But once I heard him speak and saw his interviews, I was totally captivated by his charisma and thought he was very attractive then. I could see why marvel chose him to be shangchi, because being a hero isn't just about looks, it's more about charisma and character that comes across the screen, which is rare, and Simu definitely has it. Marvel chose well.

[@raiga98]

Lol @"large-scale situation in the back" 🤣🤣

[@shaunphan9039]

He's not ugly. He's just like an average Asian that you can see in any Asia country. Yes, average looking.

[@EazyMandarin]

True

[@sonyalindee8676]

In America it is normal for a girl to want a man that is strong🏋🏻‍♀️and will protect her. But it is also important for that man to possess the incorruptible adornment of a mild and focused 🧘🏻‍♂️spirit. An intelligent man so as you grow old together you can have conversation in good company. Maybe because girls who live in a male dominated society they want the reassurance of a whimpy man that they could overpower🤼 in strength? For society as a whole it’s probably not a good idea to want that Flower boy that smells of vanity and too much cologne. If there was a zombie 🧟‍♂️🧟🧟‍♀️apocalypse who would protect you and your children? 😜 I think Simu Liu is the better option hands down.

[@loudradialem5233]

I think Simu Liu and BTS members are handsome in different ways, they are all good representation of Asian masculinity. Do you think Shang Chi will be successful in China if given the green light?

[@qudufang]

Nah, I guess it'd flop in mainland China. There's nothing new in the movie for ppl who're familiar with Wuxia movies. And apparently, there ain't any actors except Tony Lieng ppl over there are interested in.

[@loudradialem5233]

@@qudufang there have never been a wuxia movie with as much budget as this movie. If they like Marvel, the Ten Rings will have an important role in the next Avengers. It's also Tony Leung's first big role in the West, I'm sure his fans will want to support him.

[@kraigskell]

BTS is more a representation of Asian femininity, no?

[@loudradialem5233]

@@kraigskell Not really

[@hunhun1164]

BTS looks are actually very controversial in China as well. Many of them don’t fit the Chinese aesthetic... but they eventually got fans because they were popular enough elsewhere for people to get interested in knowing them and then becoming fans

[@janeriordan6228]

He is gorgeous!! Gosh Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!!!

[@Ronindan1]

so technically those mainlanders who thinks Simu Lui is ugly are looking for K pop look alikes.

[@EazyMandarin]

not necessarily, with the internet, it's so easy to show your dispproval of everything.

[@aznmochibunny]

As a longtime fan of Kpop, personally, I like both looks. There's absolutely nothing wrong with men embracing their feminine side and taking care of their looks and showing their emotions. And there's nothing wrong with a more masculine look either.

[@akunbuangan2992]

You are correct. If you look 80-90s HK Kung Fu movie and TV series, Simu Liu looking actors as lead role was actually acceptable.

[@anakitiktokwi2939]

@@akunbuangan2992 his eyes is too smalll🤣🤣🤣no chance he will get any lead roles🤣

[@huikangyi8239]

@@akunbuangan2992 Not at all. If you watched a lot the 90s Hong Kong movies or dramas. None of the main man characters is like Simu Liu.

[@dreamfield92]

讲的很好。个人来讲，作为在北京长大的女生，觉得刘思慕很有北方爷们儿气质 👍。看惯了满屏的小鲜肉，猛然这个新面孔其实亲切感十足。 看到网上铺天盖地对华人长相的评论其实很伤心。希望国人也能多看问题的本质，互相理解才是正途

[@tytania3545]

As a Latina I find him handsome because he does meet OUR beauty standards. However I understand that every country has their own and just like he said, those standards change by the decade everywhere. Very interesting indeed.

[@jessica5846]

Simu Liu is GORGEOUS.

[@studiohq]

I know some folks believe that the beauty standards come from K pop buuuuut from what I've seen and have been told,it also comes from wuxia and Xianxia dramas. Those men are equated to western knights in shining armor like Lancelot. Handsome, brave, smart, strong... Beautiful, the best of the best. Then there are your average guys, woman see them everyday and unless they have a crush they are not going to fall over themselves for a guy that looks like the average guy. They see them all of the time so they don't see anything special about them. I remember hearing about the "chicken" haircut some men were/are wearing that was equated with the Que style.It was said the hairstyle was something that was devised by the old men in the government. Women didn't want men that don't look modern or look too much like their fathers, grandfathers, uncles. country cousins ect. Then when K pop idols returned to China women saw the country become equal with beauty status and on the world stage. They could say they had beautiful men too. Men that could be admired and fantasized about.Young men evolved in thinking and appearance. Things were looking up but then Simu was put on the world stage and women were angry because they felt that there were dozens of extremely attractive actors that could have been chosen but Americans picked the boy next door to drag them back down again.Their men reflected them. If he was not beautiful then people would not see them that way. I thought he was a cutie.... but that's not what my Chinese friends from China thought. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@MaryWenPhotography]

I love the anthropological perspective you've included, great content! 你的视频让我的中文词汇量增加了许多，谢啦！

[@risan3022]

I share your opinion. I think the current beauty standards in China have something to do with the rising popularity of K-pop. I'm not Chinese but I like watching wuxia series. Growing up in the 80's I watched a lot of HK wuxia dramas, with "The Legend of the Condor Heroes" 83 version being one of my all time favorites. What with one thing and another, I didn't have enough time to keep track of what's on TV for over 30 years. Long story short I made a comeback into watching wuxia again a couple of years ago and I found that many of my favorite wuxia series had been remade in mainland China. And I notice the differences between wuxia series made in HK in the 80's - early 90's and those made recently in China mainland. Although I'm happy with some of the changes such as gorgeous costumes and breathtaking locations in the current productions made in China mainland, I can't help noticing the changes in the beauty standards as well. In the 80's my kind of wuxia heroes were Felix Wong Yat Wah, Michael Miu Kiu Wai, Barbara Yung Mei-Ling, and so on. In my opinion they were of ideal build for wuxia genre dramas or movies. They were not overweight nor too thin. They appeared strong with slightly tanned complexion which made them look healthy and lively. But when I see the current wuxia dramas, I can't tell which one is male and which is female. I find it rather odd to see a hero that looks more feminine that the female one. And I can see your point that these changes have been influenced by the popularity of K-pop. I hope these beauty standards will change again soon. I really miss watching wuxia dramas where the heros and the heroines don't look like BTS or BlackPink.

[@akunbuangan2992]

Actually Hongkong and Taiwan already had flower boy looking male celebrities in 90s long before Korean Wave (Korean wave was started after world cup soccer 2002 in Asia). Just googling who are Jimmy Lin, Alec Su, and Aaron Kwok. Current Kpop idols trend just add more heavy make up to already popular flower boys looking idols. I think the creator on this video forgot about Jimmy Lin and any similar looking HK-Taiwanese celebrities. Mainland celebrities wasn't a thing in 90s.

[@risan3022]

@@akunbuangan2992 Actually the creator of the video wasn't discussing where or when the flower boy culture started. He was addressing the issue of Simu Liu and Awkwafin's looks which are considered "not handsome or beautiful" among the social media users in China. He merely pointed out that this wasn't the general view of all Chinese in mainland China. Only few people who think that Simu and Awkwafina are not good looking. Average Chinese, apart from social media, hold different views. Additionally he mentioned that the current beauty standard in media is likely influenced by the popularity of Kpop. I agree with him that beauty standard in each country and on different period of time changes.

[@akunbuangan2992]

@@risan3022 Even by pre-Kpop standard Simu Liu would still be considered as unattractive if your standard were Jay Chou, Alec Su, Jimmy Lin, Aaron Kwok, Ming Dao, and many pre-Kpop Taiwanese boyband members. I am Chinese that living in South East Asia, I know what was considered as handsome celebrities before Korean wave (K-Wave was started here after World cup soccer 2002, 10 years before Oppa gang nam style trending in US, I was born in 1989) among Chinese communities. FYI, even Jackie Chan was actually would not pass it if you knew that he mostly played comic relief character in his pre-Hollywood career (and the rule in entertainment industry is the unattractive one should be casted as comedian). Actually the current Kpop standard is just old Japanese and Taiwanese boyband standard with more heavy make up. The standard is still stick on narrow face with slight v-shape chin which is contrast to Simu Liu's broad face with squarish chin. You can see even Tony Leung (especially his younger self) pass this standard just without heavy make up. For Awkwafina, even by Teresa Teng Era standard, no one would say she is beautiful. Someone like her would be ended as comedian, not as lead actress in late 90s to early 2000s Taiwanese romance TV series. Just watch Huan Zhu Gege (My fair princess) and Romance in the rain.

[@oliviaolivia3326]

@@risan3022 Most Chinese considered Simu Liu and Awkwafina as ugly, Simu Liu looks manchu/mongolian influenced han chinese (which he really are). And Awkwafina is half Korean and look like her Korean mother

[@sgcl10658]

@@risan3022 Only a few ppl? You are obviously not an Asian growing up in East Asia. Simu Liu and Awkwafin looks are never seen as beautiful in Asia, even without kpop influence. I remember Lucy Liu was one time named in the most 50 beautiful by Ppl magazine and Chinese in China just laughed and thought she didn't deserve it.

[@RodavlasYllas]

Simu Liu's jawline is very manly and his eyes just compliment his whole face.

[@LetsBuildThatApp]

我个人认为刘思暮长得满好看的 总比吴彦祖王力宏小白脸好看多吧 simu给人的感觉就很man 男子汉 而且身材特壮

[@jamesadd4566]

Simu Liu is not ugly. Different people holds different standard and believe how a good looking person look like. Somebody hate broccoli but some love it.

[@free22]

This is so true. The Chinese ideal he showed of a handsome man is so very different than that of American standards. We like more rugged faces. When I watch Chinese dramas, I always find the “attractive” people to be much less attractive than the people considered “ordinary” in the story.

[@ajc94]

I'm a British girl and I went to see Shang chi just for Simu, I think he's super hot. One of my ultimate celebrity crushes

[@isabellekw]

Throughout China's history, from all the novels i read about ancient china, it seems like there has always been both factions: the muscular virile army men and the weaker, delicate, educated scholarly-type men who are often described, in history books as 'beautiful white jade' or 'flowers'. Both beauty types existed in China since ancient times (not a recent phenomenon) and there probably isn't a clear line of preference for either amongst the chinese people? Whether the trend tends towards one or the other is dependent on a multitude of factors. Societal pressure is difficult to quantify. The 2 types of beauty always existed and will always exists. No matter how much the CCP is trying to repress the rise of pretty men who loves to wear eyeliners, it will never succeed in total repression. The CCP has it's own beauty standards for China, that's their choice, but they are in for a tough fight. Cause it's probably in our biology, selected for by millenia of genetic evolution and sexual selection. That is to say, there will always be women who prefers one or the other (or both) in China. On a side note: i find it funny that you compare with the US since throughout it's short history, feminine looking men has been repeatedly oppressed and repressed (for reasons unique to the US culture) and the only feminine looking popular US actor that i can name is Chalamet. That is to say, the US is not the reference in terms of open-minded beauty standards. From China, i can easily name 10 popular and gorgeous actors of both types.

[@Aden_III]

All it takes is for your weak feminine man to fail to protect you even just once and you'll run right to the arms of a strong man. I don't know why mainland girls lie to themselves 😂

[@isabellekw]

@@Aden_III maybe in mainland china, the women can protect themselves without needing a man? in any case, the big cities of china are exceptionally safe, on par with Japan and Singapore in terms of law and order. Maybe what chinese women want is an equal partner, not a protector, especially when the trend nowadays tends towards no-marriage and non-traditional couple dynamics.

[@ORANGE-ib3jd]

@@Aden_III feminine ≠ weak

[@Aden_III]

@@ORANGE-ib3jd you need the mindset and the body. You can’t be feminine and strong

[@ORANGE-ib3jd]

@@Aden_III yes ypu absolutely can be

[@dannybenhur6123]

Simu Liu is undoubtedly a Handsome man, well I guess Chinese Beauty Standards are really different, that also implies that Shang Chi is made as a Asian American movie rather than a Chinese movie.

[@jmjt3709]

Thank you for such high quality material. This is one of the best ways to learn the language; by discussing the culture the language comes from, together with the way of thinking. Very balanced and sophisticated discussions. I especially love how you highlight key phrases as you use them; helps me tremendously in my learning. Please make more!

[@valeriemain4016]

I think he is very handsome and masculine. The feminine trend is ok. Those young men will change as they mature. And they are very pleasant to watch. But many actors start out slender and gain more stature as they age. Not necessarily a bad thing. ZhangZeHan will always have a killer smile and beautiful eyes. Unless he gets fat which I don't think he will.

[@queerlibtardhippie9357]

He's literally one of the most Attractive Asian men I've ever seen LOL

[@tedwards1025]

This was a very informative breakdown of not just what current beauty standards are but why they are. Thank you for the insight!

[@scottyler2903]

As an ethnic Chinese grew up in se Asia, we used to watch HK movie/tv series; my favourite actor is chow yun fat - I would not considered him as handsome but his acting and personality always shines through the screen. I had seen shangchi and really enjoy the movie with simu Liu performance. And awkwafina too- it’s their personality and acting not how they look.

[@stevekima8881]

I'm Asian, i think sipmu liu is okay. I mean. He is better looking than most average guy his age, maybe because he's a celebrity and he has money and part of his job is to look as best as he can. But he is no where near hot, or handsome or good looking...from my Asian perspective.

[@gordonyaoi]

It's not that Simu Liu is ugly, he is just not handsome enough. Like you said in the video, he has "an ordinary look, not ugly". This is not enough. Name one other Marvel super hero that just has an ordinary look. Chris Evans? Chris Hemsworth? Chadwick Boseman？Why is it when it come to the Chinese Marvel super hero, we are settling with just an ordinary look?

[@kpopcrab5733]

Benedict Cumberbatch, Robert Downey Jr., Mark Ruffallo, none of them are even considered conventionally good looking in the west, but they’re hugely successful actors, & Iron man became one of the staples of the Marvel Universe, because of the appeals of their acting & personal charm.

[@BadLactose]

As a Chinese-Canadian, I absolutely consider Simu Liu above-average in appearance. He doesn't look simply 'ordinary' to me.

[@arossaos344]

@@kpopcrab5733 you out of topic.. China have a lot normal or ugly look but huge success superstar.. But still not consider as a good looking actor..

[@jaetine9006]

@@kpopcrab5733 I was like… am I the only one who finds a bunch of these Marvel dudes as just average looking if even that? Like some are really handsome, but not all of them. And he thing is…. It kind doesn’t matter. They still have lots of fans who find them super attractive because beauty is subjective and a personal opinion. So there are definitely people who find Simu quite attractive. Also some people care more about body than face when judging beauty and attractiveness.

[@gamer1X12]

what?? It blows my mind some Chinese find him ugly he looks very handsome to me. beauty standards are wild. also what does someone's attractiveness have to with their role in a show or film? whether you personally find them cute or not has nothing to do with anything. there are plenty of actors/actresses I dont find particularly hot, that doesnt mean they're subtracting from the movie/show

[@anhw3303]

Irony is mainland Chinese have a male beauty standard that is not what 99% of them look like. Lol

[@DeadInside-ct6dl]

"The age of men's beauty" Very astute observation! I agree with how west and east tastes are kind of overlapping in the kind of beauty standards we tend to have. I say this as a South Asian, we are also tending towards people who have 'homely' looks. But at the same time, we also have yhe 'manly' preference.

[@edenromanov]

Simu isn't ugly he just looks plain/normal and when he's supposed to be a" famous Hollywood actor" there's certain physical traits people will expect that Simu doesn't have, he may have a great body but what people see first is his face and they form their initial feeling to what they see.

[@shedontknowbutsheknows6225]

Especially when he plays Shang Chi. That character is supposed to be full blown Sichuan chilies hotpot but Simu just give plain and bland tofu energy. At least to me.

[@masterken5369]

Simu looks like Winnie the Pooh 😊

[@YamiHW]

I think Simu Liu looks very attractive, not only because how masculine he is, but he also has a pretty smile. And I don't consider Xiao Zhan as good example of a "feminine" looking guy, he just have some soft features.

[@KT-ue2mx]

I am mostly prefer men look like men, not women😏 So to me this actor is pretty handsome, masculin. Don't understand the Chinese-Korean-Japanese taste of men's beauty. Really don't. 🤔

[@theuglykwan]

Great break down. Looks wise he isn't that special but his personality is infectious and that makes him attractive. I'd choose him over some of the pretty boys. The more I see and hear of him the more I like him. I was a hater at first.

[@johnmongver]

I have HSK Level 6 and the words you use are super good. The text is also very natural, not something very textbook-ish. New subscriber here!

[@sweeperboy]

In my view, he isn't necessarily "pretty" (which is what Chinese standards are going towards these days in the sense of pale, waif-like and feminine-looking men who by the way will look very strange when they are older, but it won't "matter" because society will have moved on to younger guys by then...) but he is handsome enough in the old-fashioned sense. His face may not be his knockout feature, but it's a huge stretch to call him "ugly". He has good facial symmetry, a strong jawline and good hair. I personally think his eyes are fine, as they represent his race without trying to ape another race's features. His body on the other hand makes him overall confirm to he more Western rugged handsome type. Most importantly, he seems to have a great personality.

[@buddyman8474]

He's not ugly. Just don't have actors figure. He's more like business man or maybe common husband with 3 children

[@marciavox8105]

People of Chinese ethnicity (I myself am Chinese-American) should see Simu’s casting as a plus, because he is being portrayed as a handsome superhero and that will lead to a better social response to Chinese people in Euro-centric countries where Marvel has a strong fan base.

[@natn41r]

Chinese don't think he's being portrayed as a "handsome" superhero -- that's the problem. They think he's being chosen to fit the (negative) Asian stereotype of a person with small eyes.

[@popkhorne5372]

@@natn41r but that doesnt make any sense tho... why make a chinese character a cool super hero if its to give him a negative stereotype on purpose.

[@luiysia]

it's all about the long con 😂

[@swordw1612]

@@popkhorne5372 yeah right? And I don’t think any Chinese knows the answer lol since they didn’t make the film. Why start with this problematic IP from the beginning? It’s not about how Simu looks, everyone has different opinions on beauty and I think he looks pretty hot as a normal guy. But when you talk about big Hollywood leading actors, he is not quite there yet. What about other marvel casts, Chris evans is way above average looking white guy, and he is playing a character that almost as a human manifestation of America. It’s the double standards I hate, and tbh it is not news that USA loves depicting bad images for China. Of course we can argue that chris was casted ten years ago, and marvel has been making very diverse casts nowadays which is awesome.

[@popkhorne5372]

@@swordw1612 bro you just cant tell me simu liu was cast to "look bad". I'm sorry, he is above average. And he is built. I think he is quite a positive look on what a good asian american hero is. He is not significantly worse looking than say, chris pratt. Yknow, another MCU main character. Or you know, than doctor strange. Or you know, than ant-man. Or Black panther. Or Tom holland. Robert downey junior himself was not peak good looking either. Don't just pick the examples that suit a narrative.

[@shun-li8204]

As a Malaysian Chinese man, I find Simu rather attractive. Really boggles my mind whenever I hear about beauty standards in general...

[@αιη-τ5φ]

I don't think a western should comment whether shangchi looks handsome or not for eaast asian standards. If uour not east asian nor understand asian. We east asians get to decide if he suits the standards . He doesn't. He looks like his face was chosen or suited for western liking. He looks western than asian. So yes he doesn't suit the standards just look at Douyin

[@witchingbrew3]

This whole video explains why he's not considered desirable for the eastern market and kpop men and timothee chalomet fit the market more

[@αιη-τ5φ]

@@witchingbrew3 it's true it's more for the Western I just hope westerners don't think all east asians look like hin

[@vikingrollo8012]

Ugly is ugly in any language or country

[@XimenaZhaoArchive]

This is a very good cultural explanation. Thank you for putting this question into an international context.

[@ParagonPKC]

"Jlo changed it to butt style and people started to appreciate the large scale situation in the back"

[@chickennugget9254]

Beauty standards are so stupid. Beauty has always been subjective.

[@ronmosely8355]

All due respect as some one who had close Chinese friend in school in the 60s in Brooklyn ...all from 6 to 11 years of age and we knew each other's parents and grand parents....as someone who went into preteen depression when Bruce Lee died...as someone who had numerous buddies at Brooklyn Tech in the 70s and hung out in NYC Chinatown back then....I can tell you it's not about his eyes....its because he does not have a smooth face but a muscle face like Jackie Chan or Simon Yam. I think American audiences appreciate that he does not look like Donnie Yen or Andy Lau or Liu Chia Hui ...with a smooth face. Take note when Wang Xuequi did a cameo in Iron Man 3 ..we thought he was gonna be the Mandarin with ten rings. But I think cause he played so many villains...Feige chose someone with a smooth face who never did villains so they picked Tony Leung Char Wei. His face makes him look older and perfect to avoid the stereotypes of Kung Fu movies...and I think that's why the fights were done more like real fights rather then old school stylized movements. I never heard of Simu..but when I saw his face ...I was like...yeah...Feige knows what he is doing. Dzai Djian Wo Peng Yo!!!

[@EazyMandarin]

Yes, smooth face must be the most important part.

[@boscogong4242]

Tech 79 here.

[@minminbtscookie9542]

I'm european and I prefer monolids over large eyes! They look very sharp and intense.

[@natn41r]

TBH I did consider Simu average to borderline ugly on first impression. But after watching him act and in his interviews, I think he's quite charismatic and personable, and hence attractive.

[@onthefence1492]

It's when you base your beauty standard by a European standard... There is beautiful in all humans..

[@saidamsakha]

Simu looks like Xi Jinping's younger version. Calling him "ugly" is like roasting the chairman himself.

[@mamamay9370]

Omg nw that u mention it ... He does look like him! No wonder i thought he looks familiar...

[@luiysia]

LOLL. ur right!

[@allisonfisher9304]

Simu Lui is beautiful, his eyes are one of his best features, in my opinion💜

[@janderson1008]

This makes me think of Jike Junyi. Some people had negative comments yet still found her beautiful, the instinctive view of beauty versus the cultural standards fighting perhaps.

[@niamtxiv]

Jike Junyi is a southwest native indigenous Yi girl. I'm a southwest Chinese minority too and I Love Jike. I don't really care for today Han female beauty.

[@gentlespirit4]

Simu Liu is super duper handsome exactly the way he is. 🥰 Period. And his eyes are gorgeous. 😍 Okay. Thanks for sharing. Please take care and wishing you good health. Have a lovely day. 🌞🌻💛

[@EazyMandarin]

Thank you!

[@gentlespirit4]

@@EazyMandarin You’re welcome, Sir. 🙏🏽😌

[@midishh]

he is gorgeous!!

[@tontonjeannot6089]

Shimu Lee is so very handsome.

[@iamnemoo]

I think he's hot as hell haha but i think in the west we (asian and nonasian) like asian features as they are or encourage to embrace and be proud of it. If you look asian models on runways/magazines they have typical asian features and we still see them as quite attractive which of course I think is good, I hope people of all groups embrace their features. There was another incident a few years ago of Zara and a Chinese model with freckles, she's sooo beautiful but mainland chinese people were pissed off

[@katiaplantscientist]

"Large scale situation in the back" - that's an original way of describing it!