Why Do We "Break-In" Cherry Switches? Comparisons and My Personal Observations

[@HoodSwami]

Honestly I prefer my cherry switches to not be broken in because the scratchiness feels unique and give it some character. There's a thousand switches out there that are smoother. Great video!

[@JadedJawnee]

I totally agree. Especially with the Hyperglide batches, I've been much more comfortable not breaking them in. They are not as intolerable without a break-in period as a retooled or pretooled batch. I also agree with the smoothness part; a million other switches are designed to be smooth. There's no point in making Cherry switches something they are not!

[@1.0xY.m0r0n]

Great video, and I also want to say thank you for the sound tests. They are so helpful when I'm looking into new builds! I tried all kinds of switches when I was early on in the hobby, but now I basically only use broken-in blacks. The only exception being my two "endgame" boards use broken-in browns and I have a board with broken-in Nixies to see how they were. Cherry just has that perfect clack I'm looking for in a sound. Also, the work that goes into making them sound good, break-in/spring swap/lube/film, really makes them feel special when the build is put together.

[@JadedJawnee]

Thanks so much for the kind words! I'm thrilled that the sound test library is doing its job. And I totally agree. The more I strayed away from Cherry Switches, the more I realized I felt at home with them. I also agree that the work that goes into them makes the payout much better. 😄

[@jalexanderc]

I think all your points are valid, but one thing to note is that pre-tooled cherry switches are kind of known to be more scratchy. The molds for the "vintage" cherries, which are from the 1990s, are allegedly smoothest, then with the change to the pre-tooled mold, the switches were noted to be much scratchier, and then with the latest tooling, hyperglides, they're a little smoother than pre-tooled, but not as smooth as the vintage molds. Now, this is all just hearsay. I do have some mx black hyperglides that I manually broke into "ultraglides" by just typing on them stock (just spring swapped) for maybe 8 months or so, rotating switches so all of them got a turn on the alphas. I can confirm that the broken-in switches for sure feel less scratchy, but also sound significantly less scratchy. Of course, there's still some scratch if my put my ear right next to the switch or board, but we'll chalk that up to the signature cherry sound we buy cherries for. I also have bought a few boards from 2007-2009 off ebay with browns, clears, and blacks. I haven't desoldered the blacks and browns yet, and I can't really compare the clears to modern day clears (if they exist), because I don't have any. But I'm going into using these pre-tooled switches with the expectation that they won't sound completely scratch-free, because they are from the scratchiest mold. But I am hoping their use in these old boards has resulted in them feeling less sandpaper-y. The mx clears have been pretty great so far, and tbh I can't even tell if they're still scratchy sounding because of the shape of the tactile bump, which makes them sound "chalky", as glarses put it, by default. But it's a good chalky sound!

[@JadedJawnee]

Thanks so much for the long comment! A lot of people can learn from this, including me. I had yet to learn that the pre-tooled molds (immediately following the vintage molds) were known as the scratchiest. I'm happy to hear that even regular typing for a long time still retains that Cherry scratch. It's something I've noticed in gaming keyboards for the alpha keys. It never seems to go away for Cherry (which is a good thing). Hope your harvest treats you well! While the labor it took to harvest 12+ keyboards with various switches was a pain, I learned a lot about how regular typing can affect it and formed my own opinions. Again, thanks so much for the insightful comment!

[@ziich1]

Thank you for the videos you make. I think that lube makes the most difference for switches. Break in, diamond polish etc give diminishing returns

[@JadedJawnee]

Thanks so much for the kind words! I agree. Once you deviate from 205g0, you can get wildly different effects on feel and sound. It's just that 205g0 is the standard, so that's what everything is standardized with :)

[@Drippyddrip]

I did my first solder on my first highend 65 the haus by hand engineering with the vints blacks I got from a friend. It took a lot of time to film and lube them one by one and solder. It was one heck of an experience for my first ever solder lol. I'm still not sure if it's my cup of tea but I can really say that vint blacks is a whole nother experience than the newer switches I'm used to since getting into the hobby. I only lubed the stem as I was told and I can def hear the scratch not sure if I underlubed it or this is just how it's supposed to, or maybe board where my vint blacks were harvested from was not used that much. I never tried any cherry blacks so I don't know what to expect or how to compare them.

[@JadedJawnee]

Having Vintage Blacks as your first foray into Cherry switches is certainly something! My first exposure was gaming keyboards like the Corsair K70, so I had a baseline. Vintage Blacks should still retain a bit of scratch, and you did lube it properly! You should always be able to hear a little bit, as it's a Cherry switch. I imagine them in the Haus sounds immaculate. Good choices overall, and cherish the batch you have!

[@keebscape]

Dude, I’m having a hard time deciding between breaking in my vintage cherry Mx blacks or just lubing them. Most people I talk to about it say break in is a must for vints but in the same sentence say they like vints for the scratch. 😅

[@JadedJawnee]

You don't go too hard on the break-in service (AKA maybe 200,000-500,000 and avoid the 1,000,000)! That should be the sweet spot. In addition, for L+F service on the Vintage Blacks, be careful of heavy lube layers. The Vintage Blacks are quiet from my personal experience and other similar anecdotes.

[@keebscape]

@@JadedJawnee cool, thanks for the info!

[@Cooj11]

I think you could've driven your point home better by comparing the difference in sound in just 1 board. Though I get that may be tedious. Otherwise great video discussing one common talking point about cherry switches. As someone who loves cherry switches more than any other, part of the thrill is breaking them in myself. Not only do I preserve it's shelf life, I get to appreciate the gradual change as I use my board more.

[@JadedJawnee]

I 100% agree that having them on one board would be the most objective way to go about it. Unfortunately, the MX Reds were soldered onto the PCB, haha. I'm very used to swapping out switches with all the switch sound tests I do, and I was a little sad I couldn't, but if we were focusing on scratch, we got the point across. And thanks for the kind words! I agree that Cherry switches are so fun because you get to experience them change with use. That's really underappreciated, and I'm glad you mentioned it. Cheers!

[@Luci_71]

For me, break in is a thing for feel not sound, the differences between sound is noticable but not to a massive extent the feel however is the main thing affected. i have two of my boards, one using broken in mx blacks the other one using broken in mx browns. another one of my older boards uses non broken in hyperglides and i can really tell the difference in feel

[@JadedJawnee]

Agree. The sandpaper feeling is something people have to decide whether or not they can deal with 😄

[@Kaarage24]

Hey man, i wanted to say that i liked your content, they have impacted my choice on switches sometimes as you test alot of them on the monokei hiro. Also I had 500k broken in mx blacks and the sound was kind of slightly less scratchy compared to another set of mx blacks i just lubed and filmed right after receiving, the feel tho is definitely alot smoother like you said. Also how do you find the monokei Hiro after using it for a while?

[@JadedJawnee]

Thank you so much for the kind words! It really means a lot. I'm happy to hear someone who can share the same experience with how break-in also takes away the initial sandpaper feeling. As for the Monokei Hiro, what can I say? I really love it! It's 4 screws for a screwless design which makes assembly very quick and easy. It does well with many plate materials, but you need to force-break the mounting points at the screws. Also, you really need the brass bottom for it to sound good. I hope this helps! If you can find it for sale, that sounds great to me. It isn't the prettiest board, but it is one of the boards that can do whatever I ask. It's the channel's mascot at this point. 😆

[@Kaarage24]

@@JadedJawnee thanks :)

[@Dajan456]

I like the stock mx black scratch blending in with the scratch from my bs staebies set. At least like that i dont feel how shit the stabs are compared to the alphas. It also gives a kind of tactile feedback and makes me type a little better. Idk if you want a smooth switch why not just get oil kings or something? Your gmk set is going to break in before the switches will by typing on it anyways.

[@JadedJawnee]

LMAO. Have you ever considered swapping the Staebies, or too much work to change it? I agree; if you want a smooth switch, buying one smooth from the get-go is better to save money.

[@huunhanle3809]

With the recent batch of Cherry Hyperglide, I really don't think break-in is necessary. The signature soft scratch is all that made Cherry MX. But for NK Cream V1, that $hit with it stiff scratchiness is another story, lol.

[@JadedJawnee]

I agree! Hyperglides are the exception to the only "stock" Cherry you could get away with not putting on a machine. Of course, when I say that, it largely depends on the batch you get. In terms of probability, they are the most likely to not need a break-in service, as you said. NK Creams are legendary for their scratch, you are so right.

[@kddsbt]

Hey! Longshot but do you happen to be selling any TKL o rings 30A+?

[@JadedJawnee]

I do not, but you can find o-rings here: graveshift.com/products/graveshift%E2%84%A2-x-o-rings?variant=40647288553678. I hope this helps!

[@rockets4kids]

I wonder if the break-in should be done unlubed. Or even broke in with lube mixed with a microfine abrasive.

[@JadedJawnee]

Some people argue that you should do it without lube and then lube it when you're happy. Others say to L+F and then break in, as it doesn't make a difference. Some people diamond polish their MX Blacks. I don't think anyone has the right way; more so, everyone has a preference on how they go about it!

[@xirxirxir]

I got some diamond polished browns from vexkbd, they do sound "smoother" than my 500K break in browns from divinikey. there really isnt the signature cherry scratch, just the signature brown bump that alot of people say is scratch, even my friend who wasn't into keyboards could tell they sounded less scratchy. I think another factor is the lube choice and lube style, whether one lubes heavily in certain parts and i know the ghv4 is alot of thicker and tends to produce a more deep sound and can also "mask" that scratch. I agree that batch variance plays a heavy role.

[@JadedJawnee]

My question is, do you like that the Cherry scratch isn't there anymore? As I said, it's all preference at the end of the day. I enjoy the Cherry Scratch, but others ensure it's gone. As for your point, I 100% agree with the lube choice and technique. I mentioned it in the video, but that's a much more significant factor regarding the scratch sound than the actuation of a switch. Because, like your batch variance point, it's hard to say what the "limit" is to a break-in machine as some batches will take it better than others. I've still yet to try GHV4, and I'll KZbin to see how those are. Always appreciate your thoughts, fam!

[@xirxirxir]

@@JadedJawnee I like the DP browns more only because i like the sound of the bump. On the linears like reds and blacks, I do not mind the scratch personally, its why i still put in my non broken in blacks every now and then, its a sound that's acquired fs. GHv4 is interesting because everyone has their own mix and version of it.

[@JadedJawnee]

@@xirxirxir That's nice to know, so I have a baseline to work with. TYSM!

[@nikostephen510]

i think for me, it's definitely a skill issue HAHAHA. it's cool to see the level of customizability in the hobby, depending on what type of sound you want to go for. and for me, that preference changes damn near daily -- sometimes i want scratch, other times, i want my boards to sound more muted -- and that's not even considering the "sound" that a board produces given how it's designed. i try to level out the typing feel as well by using the same or similar springs (but the springs can also have an impact on the sound of the switch in my experience as well.)

[@JadedJawnee]

Springs definitely play a role in your typing experience. Some desperately need one, but I do it more for feel than sound. I didn't know it could impact sound dramatically. And to your point about preference, isn't it crazy that in the ocean of switches, a single Cherry switch can have people on a spectrum of what they prefer to do to it? Most switches people say L+F, but Cherry switches people have so many different tunes for it. It's really cool to see a switch have such a platform.

[@jammies701]

Nice vid mate

[@JadedJawnee]

Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it.

[@alceray]

I don't like the physical scratch but I live with it. I just don't want to pay for break in when I can do it myself

[@JadedJawnee]

I totally get that. That was really my idea behind harvesting all those MX Reds! I don't like the physical scratch, so I let others do it for me. It's also nice to ask my family and friends to give me their used gaming keyboards in return for me replacing them with a new custom keyboard. They get a nice board, and I get free, mega broken-in switches. By the way, how did your harvest end up on those MX Red switches?

[@alceray]

​@@JadedJawnee The harvest went well, got half scratchy and half smooth switches. Though I haven't touched them since tbh. Their pins are too fat and crooked to use on hotswap, unlike the vint blacks, and I don't have a build to solder them in yet.

[@JadedJawnee]

​@@alcerayGlad it went alright! I've gotten cleaning solder pins down to a science and can use them on a hot-swap board, but you need a desoldering gun to get them perfect (and sometimes, you get into a rhythm when cleaning pins). And if they are crooked, you'll need to clean the pins to straighten them with tweezers in the first place. I can see how that's a sore point. Always excited for your new builds and hope to be able to comment on a new video soon.

[@alceray]

@@JadedJawnee I can usually use my desoldered switches on hotswap too, but these were built different. Many of them were soldered with pins bent flush to the pcb. Have you encountered that before? My tweezers just couldn't budge them.

[@JadedJawnee]

@@alceray !?!?!? Oh nah. I have had to deal with flush pins once or twice. If I remember correctly, there were times when I struggled with yanking the last few switches out because they still had a tiny amount of solder stuck to the PCB. In those cases, I flowed solder again, desoldered it, and quickly yanked it out. After yanking it out, I would quickly use the tweezers to adjust the pins while they were hot. After, I would put the nozzle of the gun directly on the pins to heat them up and then suck the solder to clean them. Because they were hot, it was easier to move them. That might help with moving the really tough pins. My last tip, which I should have told you earlier, was to crank your desoldering gun. The factory solder on these pre-made boards is insane. I think I cranked mine to 450 Celcius to have it play nice with the factory solder :( Sorry if none of that was helpful. I wanted to share some of my experiences with these PCBs.

[@AI.Musixia]

mx red vs mx black vs brown i used black and brown for years and red since 7 years iam not really faster with the red switches but my fingers wont hurt anymore after some hours typing :D

[@JadedJawnee]

That's good to hear! People might fight me on this, but in my experience, the only difference between MX Reds and MX Blacks is their stem color and default spring weight. Springs always get swapped, so the only difference is purely aesthetic colors. The bias against MX Reds in the hobby because of their association with gaming boards has left an ocean of used gaming keyboards untapped with MX Reds (and a free break-in service). It's a lot of labor, but it's a fun pastime if you have a desoldering gun. It's like Gacha at that point, haha. If Red switches feel too heavy, I recommend a spring swap to an even lower weight or getting a batch already L+F+SS.

[@oakerface95]

👀👍! great vid with great info!

[@JadedJawnee]

Thanks so much, Oak! I'm really flattered to hear that.

[@yang13bruno48]

based video

[@JadedJawnee]

Thank you! I just thought I'd share my experiences. 😅

[@laffeybunn8557]

Breaking In cherries defeats the entire point imo. Breaking in other switches tho :)

[@JadedJawnee]

Removing the physical scratch feeling is valid, but I don't think anyone should break in Cherry switches with the idea of removing the scratch. That's their entire point like you said!

[@laffeybunn8557]

@@JadedJawnee I don't think you can remove the physical scratch without removing a similar amount of audio scratch

[@JadedJawnee]

@@laffeybunn8557 I definitely think you can if you don't go overboard. For example, in this video, the Pretooled MX Blacks (1,000,000) feel different from the MX Reds (zero actuation). Again, this is hard to describe over text and the internet, but I've experienced it firsthand. It could be just Paramount Keebs batch of Pretooled that can do that, but it's technically possible from my experience. And like I said in the video, there's no need to go to 1,000,000 to get past the very early stages of the physical scratch. I imagine even 100,000 might be enough.

[@laffeybunn8557]

@@JadedJawnee true. if only I had $80 to waste on a break in machine I'm too busy waiting on the kyūbi to drop (the keeb that this hobby thinks is the next exit scam)

[@JadedJawnee]

@@laffeybunn8557 Yeah! I think that's the saddest part about the break-in "mod," if we want to call it that. There is a financial barrier to it, given machines are pretty expensive. It doesn't make sense even for an average enthusiast to buy a machine compared to a mod like poly-fill. I guess the only way to wrap my head around it is that it's still cheaper than one GMK set and reusable, but getting your money's worth out of it is another question 😅

[@edeninfidel7065]

tbh im not gonna breakin my cherry switches ever again lmao, it just felt too generic when it has less of that scratchyness

[@JadedJawnee]

I can do without the initial sandpaper feeling, but I agree. I would never go out of my way to break in a Cherry switch to where it loses its signature scratch. Ironically, I really like where the Paramount Keebs Pre-tooled MX Blacks ended up with 1,000,000 actuations, but I bet they'd sound very similar with just Roy's regular 550,000 actuation polish.

[@geonfeetpic]

try diamond polished switches

[@JadedJawnee]

I wouldn't mind trying them if they weren't 100+ dollars to have serviced, and you do have to wait a while for the service to be done since some hard-coded steps take waiting time. I know some people swear by it, though!

[@geonfeetpic]

@@JadedJawnee DIY

[@JadedJawnee]

@@geonfeetpic Unfortunately, I don't have the time or expertise, but I think TofuTypes made a video on it if you're curious.