Why Do We Hate Losing So Much?

Whether people are gambling, haggling, or just doing their best to save lives out there, losing is tough to deal with.
Hosted by: Hank Green
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Sources:
www.princeton.edu/~kahneman/d...
www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/29377...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.pnas.org/content/107/8/378...
www.sciencedirect.com/science/...
Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman
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Images:
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
images.nimh.nih.gov/public_il...
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Do...

[@kangaroosinantarcticayes9220]

It took me 4 minutes to understand that "losing" in the name actually means not "not winning" but "stop having something".

[@d_wang9836]

KangaroosInAntarctica Yes Doesn't explain why they put a sport in the thumbnail

[@1991dmj]

Well the thumbnail is missleading

[@lukedarren2399]

KangaroosInAntarctica Yes The way you chose to word it confuses me even more.

[@GuyWithAnAmazingHat]

I think the thumbnail maker saw the title during production and thought the same.

[@finding.myself]

KangaroosInAntarctica Yes IKR?!?!?!

[@60secondsuccess39]

Another interesting effect is called illusory control. This is an effect that states people think they have more control over a situation then they actually do. Ex. Participants attempt to buy a 50/50 raffle ticket, they either pick their own numbers or are given random numbers. An elaborate story is then made up about needing to buy the ticket back, because they sold too many. The people who picked their own numbers wanted significantly more money to sell back the ticket.

[@jackphillips4020]

60 Second Success Huh you're just full of fun facts. Love your channel by the way.

[@foofoo1445]

Scishow did this one: watch?v=d3O8zEy6uDo

[@sage5296]

60 Second Success there was an episode about that exact thing like a month and a half before this video

[@Kassidar]

"Why we hate _loss_ so much" please don't use a thumbnail of an angry sportsman with wording that implies something completely different.

[@Beffinee]

I was actually in a replication of the mug study!

[@TheOTanks]

i thought the video was going to be winning/losing rather then gaining/losing :/

[@GuyWithAnAmazingHat]

I think the thumbnail maker saw the title during production and thought the same.

[@Master_Therion]

I misread the title as "Why Do We Hate *Losers* So Much?" and thought... SciShow hates me? :(

[@kasnitch]

you're not a loser Therion .. snap out of it

[@alienturtle1946]

Most people would say your puns are a win XD

[@datsnek]

Don't lose your will to fight! That would be a real loss.

[@fandyus4125]

Too late for me.

[@SirNeutral]

Sooooooyyyy un PERDEDORRRRR

[@vestingjeans6245]

Six dislikes from the mattress companies.

[@danielalonso3560]

I don't think Plan A #1 and Plan A #2 are equivalent. Plan A #1: Save 200 people for sure, but there is no information on what happens to the remaining 400 people. This lack of information is important, because it means that it is possible that Plan A might still increase the odds of survival for those 400, it might have no effect on their odds of survival, or it may even lower their odds of survival. Plan A #2: 400 people will die for sure, but there is no information on what happens to the remaining 200 people. This means that it is possible that the odds of survival for those 200 people may be raised, lowered, or unaffected. Only if we assume worst case for #1 and best case for #2, are both versions of the plan equivalent: Worst Case for Plan A #1: 200 people survive, 400 people die. Best Case for Plan A #2: 400 people die, 200 people survive. Without enough information though, #1 always saves at least 200 people, while #2 saves only at most 200 people. Thus they are not equivalent. I hope that the actual phrasing for both versions of Plan A were more informational in the actual experiment, otherwise the experiment might be faulty.

[@kk88js]

I completely agree. Also about the mug experiment I don't think that it shows people value the mug more if they have it, just that people who have something are more inclined to sell it for more and people who don't have something are more inclined to spend less money on it, because everybody loves money.

[@iamSkYliNeR]

True, why do these so called scientists call something a fact with only one study with mugs ? Because others were made to validate the results. It's science guys, when scientists get some results, others will try to refute them ! Also Daniel, you're wrong, these sentences where made to be easy to understand so you give a quick answer, what is saved, is saved, what is not saved, is then lost and vice versa. Not trying to be rude, but I read Kahneman's work on these.

[@danielalonso3560]

Making the sentences easier to understand introduces vagueness. Some participants would assume that what is not saved is then lost, while others (like me) would not make that assumption. But you say that you actually read the work on these, so I'm sure you know more about the details of the experiment than I do. For all I know, the sentences in this video were not direct quotes from the experiment itself, and the video doesn't mention every detail of the experiment. This is a great discussion though. Thanks for your input :) You're not being rude whatsoever, we're talking science so we gotta be as objective as possible.

[@strikewind_]

What if they wanted the mug more tho... Like really really wanted a mug? You can do all sorts with mugs Mugs are very useful don't dis mugs

[@joaoliduario]

-"Rocket raccoon"- Guardians of the Galaxy 1

[@VeNoM0619]

The whole mug study, could also be explained by: Selling the mug, people KNOW they have a buyer lined up (high demand) While the people buying the mug, don't need it (low demand). Perhaps if they rephrased it as: How much do you think it's worth? Or, how much do you think I could buy an identical one for? They might find closer results.

[@nickflesher7608]

Such a very helpful, insightful, and practical channel.

[@zeromailss]

Damn thumbnail, at first I thought it was about winning or losing a game or fight etc

[@TheFozyx]

Is this the same thing that makes parents avoid vaccines for their children? The known impact of them being hurt, crying and ill in the short term versus the "unknown" potential illness in the long term.

[@LKAChannel]

Fozyx Methas You raise a good point

[@ikwilvis]

there is actually already a video on this!

[@Spartan0430]

@ikwilvis can you send a link? that'd be cool to watch

[@ElfRulerr]

This site very briefly explains the research and link between vaccines and autism. howdovaccinescauseautism.com/

[@Bishop38f8]

Nope, the anti-vaccine crowd think they are smarter than everyone else. It's a conspiracy theory basically... They believe vaccines cause autism and they don't want their child to be autistic... It's a modern day idiocy steming from the fact that, for one we managed to almost get rid of the things we vaccinate kids for, two, medicine redefined autism, which resulted in rise in numbers of children diagnosed with autism, and three, parents will notice first signs of autism around the age of vaccination. Therefore vaccines caused it... And internet... I love internet, but with the good comes the bad as well... So it's more in the lines of stranger danger thing. Or terrorist attacks... traveling on plane instead of train or bus. People don't process statistics all that well. And since plane crashes are spectacular, unlike dying in a bus, people fear planes more than buses, even tho, statistically busses are more dangerous than planes. Or the likelihood of you dying in a terrorist attack is minimal... Or the fact that it's more likely your child will get abducted or abused by someone close to it more than by some stranger. Parents worry about their children, and want the best for them, it's natural. It's not really short term, long term thing.

[@thinker8682]

Talk about optimism bias.

[@jeffreybernath6627]

When you say plan A will certainly save 200 lives, that suggests that it may save more. When you say that the same plan will certainly lose 400 lives, that suggests that it may lose more. The expected values of the two plans are not the same.

[@rigille]

I think they meant "will save exactly 200 lives" and "won't save exactly 400 lives".

[@rigille]

But you're right. The phrasing is ambiguous.

[@LikeGoldenFire]

The endowment effect reminds me of the rose garden scene from The Little Prince. Sure, they're all roses. But his rose was different, because it belonged to him. Because it was her that he watered and sheltered, and killed the caterpillars for. Because it was *his* rose, and that has made all the difference. I think it's beautiful that humans think that way.

[@iartistdotme]

This was enlightening - yes, I am typical. It's fun to find out why I think certain ways. Thanks.

[@LucasShanker]

Can we also get a video about why we hate losing games?

[@snake698]

This video has a lot of psychology

[@Warriormanners]

Can we get a video on why we hate losing as in "not winning" so much as well? Just wondering, that's what I thought this video was anyways.

[@aquamarine3699]

awesome vid!

[@giannideschaepdryver1665]

That brain replacement effect at 4:25 is SATISFYING :D!!!

[@NewMessage]

When he said 'Prospect Theory', I had a mental image of Sheldon Cooper with a donkey, panning for gold. GOOOOOOOLD!

[@lanreyjoseph]

You guys are the greatest.

[@tyhokan]

THE COMPANY JUST THROWS AWAY THE MATTRESS. Well, sometimes it gets donated. Just wanted to point out the potential environmental impact of returns because it's tearing me apart emotionally

[@starbuckwhy]

something that i would like to see is a section at the end focusing on what you can do about it. these videos are great for being aware of these quirks of our cognitive processes. what are some of the potential strategies for how to avoid making mistakes as a result of the phycological tendencies that you explain in these videos? crash course clinical phycology...? crash course applied behavioral modification? sci show current methodologies in applied psychology?

[@elitecoders8026]

Good work keep doing

[@LivingInTragedy]

I love this channel

[@Prizzlesticks]

The $100 loss versus $150 gain scenario made me wonder how poverty might affect one's perception of loss, even in the face of a better gain. My gut reaction was, "Like hell I'm giving up my $100, I ain't got the funds for that gamble." However, I imagine I might feel more ambitious if I had a spare $100 to my name. Likewise, I'm less likely to give up anything I own unless the gain substantially outweighs the potential loss, simply because I don't own a lot. It just makes me wonder how one's environment and upbringing influences how one views situations of loss and gain.

[@dfjshjkd]

thank you!

[@AidanRatnage]

I've seen many food products that say if you don't like it you can return it for a replacement or full refund as long as it's unopened.

[@angiewagner9232]

Can we appreciate the skills at 4:25?

[@AifDaimon]

The Plan A/B thing literally got to me, Hank.. Hahaha

[@5674657]

This is my Mug there are many like it but this one is mine

[@brokenacoustic]

This is my rifle, this is my mug, this is for fighting, this is for coffee.

[@-ifrk-4035]

An excellent video.

[@voltairesarmy6702]

if you want to know more, look up kahneman and tversky. I read a bunch of papers on this for a behavioral economics class.

[@rigille]

Voltaire's Army thanks

[@CaptmagiKono]

PvP in Eve Online is a good example of this Loss Aversion.

[@mangaluver1231]

Huh, that definitely explains why I'd refuse to drop classes during freshman year of college. Even though I hated the classes. I'll be sure to keep that in mind next year.

[@JohnSmith-qg3jb]

Your video addressed how our fear of loss influences our decisions, not why as the title indicated.

[@atalantab8764]

Hey scishow, I'm sorry but I dont have the money to support you directly through patreon. Not right now, but I just want to tell you guys, that I watch pretty much every episode of each scishow. I love them and you guys do incredible work. I'd really love you guys to go into detail about the online disinhibition effect. And what your thoughts on it are.

[@emilioherrera6345]

0:47 If a psychologist gifts you a mug, you keep it

[@lgkfamily]

The coffee cup: Perhaps all you're seeing is just wise buyer/seller behaviors, not some kind of "endowment effect." If I'm buying something I want the cheapest price I can get, and if I'm selling something (regardless of how I obtained it) I want the most money I can get for it. I agree that the endowment effect is real. I just think the coffee cup example has viable alternate explanations.

[@iknowilookdumbwhenisaythis5593]

Losing is death. Seeing another man's happiness about your loss, is worse than death.

[@BrunoFinger]

When someone gives me something as much as insignificant this object can be, I tend to get emotionally attached to this object because of the person who gave it to me and the fact the it gave it to me, the object keep reminding me this person thought and cared about me. It's very hard for me to get rid of this kind of objects. Of course it depends of how I feel about this person.

[@KellyKOScraps]

We bought a mattress and it was so awful and we did return it. The replacement one was so much better. Listen to Hank return it!

[@y2ksw1]

Good argument!

[@Jagcycle]

I love that shirt!

[@AnimilesYT]

I'll return my laptop soon as it's screen is rubbing against the keys ruining itself. plus some other reasons. I'm glad I have that option.

[@aeviwright7846]

I would have picked choice B in both wordings as even a 33.3% chance at success is better than the certainty of dooming the majority.

[@alicered4198]

I picked the riskier option in both scenarios for the life saving/life losing thing.

[@Poofiemus]

This totally explains ridiculous bidding wars on eBay/Yahoo Japan.

[@ThisOldSkater]

I think the reason I wouldn't return a mattress would have more to do with what a PITA it would be relative to how dissatisfied I was more than any feeling of ownership.

[@CharlesTheClumsy]

I work as a teaching assistent and my ADHD student hates losing so much he can't control himself.

[@user-bf6dl4ih9c]

Is there a version of this that focuses on losing games?

[@Tohob]

i imagine for most of human history "losing" often resulted in death, so it would make sense to have a natural aversion to it.

[@northvanman1283]

After watching this I now have the courage to return my mattresses!!!

[@lazyperfectionist1]

This is a very hard dilemma, and my perception of it is probably biased by the fact that you folks described the _gains_ and _risks_ to me before you described the _losses,_ but I have always preferred a certainty to a risk. A certainty that I will _save_ 200 but _lose_ 400 bites, but the alternative is a situation in which the odds are _one_ chance in three that I save _everybody,_ but _two_ chances in three that I _lose_ everybody. That's just about intolerable.

[@DecisiveElement]

4:26 That moment when Hank turned into a robot XD

[@rlicon1970]

I got mugged. 😂 😂 😂 😂

[@Klatski]

What about product merchants that give you the opportunity to pay for the product first, and if the client doesn't like it, they can take it back for a refund?

[@bogdanionita5795]

I've actually made a behavioral economics project on this a month ago... nobody understood excepting a couple of people :))

[@BlenderForDesigner]

It would be hilarious if at the end Hank said "This episode brought to you by Casper"

[@SorenEragon]

For the Risky Choices, I'd take the risky one straight out. I assume that everyone involved is at risk (including myself). If everyone dies... who's gonna know? If everyone lives, I'm a friggin' hero!!!

[@Blitzkriegwolf]

I get extremely emotionally angry when I lose at the simplest of things like video games or sports. But in a life threatening or changing scenario I’m usually calm. Why is that? I’m obsessed with winning but I understand humility and am deeply empathetic when it counts. It’s like I have an angel and a demon that just fight back and forth.

[@MonicaElysia16]

when it came to the saving lives question; I automatically saw the 400 people who would die side of it.

[@AnnoyingAsianWitch]

Now you'll never get 378 mattresses, Hank.

[@Abraxis86]

I don't think it's a problem with losing things. I think it's about taking things for granted, and not wanting to re-evaluate your path. You don't want to lose 100 dollars because you have plans for that 100 dollars, if you lost it, you would need to come up with alternatives. It's like viewing the value of a foundation for a building in isolation. This foundation is much more valuable when it's placed before a building is constructed on top of it. Receive a free foundation and that's cool, but it also means you need to build a new building to really get value out of it. Lose your current foundation, and a building you've already put the effort into building comes crashing down.

[@Teth47]

But feelings are math fundamentally though. We just call that odd, often faulty internal logic feelings because we don't understand the mathematical underpinnings that govern its function. We're robots, but we don't want to talk about it, because it forces us to face really uncomfortable questions.

[@szer3778]

I like his white and gold shirt

[@soulife8383]

Nice gold shirt bro 👌

[@sauron1427]

wait a minute - in the mug example low-balling the purchase price makes you spare money and jacking up the sale price makes you earn more. When the question is asked in those terms it seems to have little to do with the idea that you want to keep an object you already have. You didn't ask for an estimate of its actual value, you asked for how much they'd like to pay or receive.

[@lavenchanSSP]

I guess I like the riskier option although I was sure it was the better option.

[@LizTiddington]

I think my boyfriend's dyspraxia might be giving him an advantage in this scenario, he always perceives what the advertisers try to cover, he can't hear an advert saying something like "80% of women would recommend X shampoo" without commenting something like "1 in 5 women WOULDN'T recommend it". I envy him this talent, I really have to engage my conscious thought to notice these things and it just comes naturally to him. as that seems to be against the average behavior I wonder if it is because he's wired differently!

[@joeljuarez3789]

I never get attached... cue the said music.

[@GuyWithAnAmazingHat]

I think that there's probably an argument that feelings is based on math, everything is physics at the fundamental level. Even when you ask "how much do you feel like doing something", you are measuring your feelings and calculating your motivation. If you can pin point every single electron in your body, you basically find out the physics of your personality and feelings.

[@magus104]

ive done a lot of surveys for colleges when you have a loss aversion style thing and i always have to explain to them in the end i make the choice with more potential loss of life due to the fact that we have a population problem and more deaths solve that. i guess im a bad person

[@AlistairBullen]

You tricked me into watching a video about economics. I've been studying this stuff for years. I came here for psychology!

[@reubenaden2238]

This guy is actually everywhere

[@BusierMold58]

Well, since our emotions are basically programmed into us, we're still basically robots.

[@caleb7006]

Actually there is a rational reason that people would estimate the mugs value to be higher when they are given it first. A person doesn't always need a mug but they will probably always need money, so it is in their best interest to maximize profits by estimating the mugs value as high when selling it and minimize losses by estimating its value as low when buying.

[@jangambler9998]

Wow, after each following video I can't help to think that they must have read Nassim Taleb's "The Black Swan". But it's no wonder since that book taps into the deepest parts of human psychology.

[@brickbunny9686]

0:02 BECAUSE LOSING IS A PERSONAL HATE-ABLE OFFENSE TO ONES PRIDE OVER... uh... eating cookies! (yeah I totally didn't have a good finishing comment, so I made a crazy statement up)

[@YeoYeo]

1:46 I feel the questions were a little confusing since I didn't know the total amount of people. 200 out of what? 400 out of what? Perhaps you should have stated "200 out of 600" and "400 out of 600." This allows people to have a better context. I just felt I didn't have the appropriate information to make a decision.

[@markessa8755]

I like the part when you were speaking about robots and a gear was put in your head

[@CourtneyCha0s]

I have a video request! I know I'm not a patreon funder, but this is important. Please do an episode about TMS (Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation). I'm trying to raise awareness, and maybe learn a thing or two. TMS is mainly used to treat depression in a non-invasive, no-drugs way. It's super effective and basically, you might even call it a cure for depression, more or less. Most doctors don't even know about it because it's a new treatment. It's FDA approved for adults and it's in trials for ages 12-21 currently. It has saved my life, and I want to help other people by spreading the word.

[@winterphilosophy3900]

You forgot to tag the video loss aversion (?)

[@Edgewalker001]

That's interesting because for me it actually felt the other way round. That is to say plan B sounded better when it comes to saving lives and plan A sounded better when considering lives lost. Oh well, we can't save everybody.

[@MrCyanGaming]

But if everyone returns their mattresses, we will no longer have the option.

[@DharmaJannyter]

That's why not everyone should do it, but only a few who are not making decisions based on the thought that their actions ought to be considered a maxim. :P

[@sean..L]

I lost my ability to know if I've lost something.

[@RialuCaos]

Your mind?

[@DharmaJannyter]

What you're saying can't be true. Because if it were, then you wouldn't know about it.

[@rydaddy2867]

What if the mattress is really awesome but you are worried it will break down and not last much beyond the 100 day trial?

[@gilliat1905]

Although numerically it might seem the same, from a moral perspective, actively saving a few from certain doom is not the same as actively sacrificing many to save a select group, in one you are a hero, in the other you might be considered as a machiavellic executionner. I might add that unconsciously your mind knows the difference, imho utilitarism is a flawed theory, and one must not mistake logic and reason.

[@ANDELE3025]

(for the example there) the freaking garanteed 200 lives saved and guaranteed 400 lives lost is not the same, if the question was posed by someone who understood basic axioms (or didnt have a agenda), the case A in the second version of the question would state "Treatment where at most 400 people would die."

[@Rithene]

Nooooooo, the way those two disease problems are framed does, in fact, change the meaning. In the first one, it was never mentioned that the remaining 400 people would die; it just said that 200 people would be saved. I took this to mean that the remaining 400 might either live or die, which is drastically different than saying they're dead for sure. I don't know if SciShow's condensed version changed this, but if actual studies have been done with this wording, I would be highly suspicious of its results.

[@bsit-13jaredconcengco31]

Isn't Amygdala a character in Star Wars?

[@stax6092]

I don't hate losing, because I'm always winning.

[@aaronyu2660]

Makes me wanna tell a theory of a possible evolution of perception

[@thomasaugustto]

Veritasium made something similar in practice c:

[@Gayfrogscollective]

Replaying Wings of Liberty, I find myself rolling with 1 medic per 4-ish other troopers. I know loosing units is a core aspect of RTS, but my old RPG instincts lead me to believe there are no acceptable losses when it comes to your characters. Unless they're Zerg. They're disposable by design.

[@horsecrazy2266]

product placement lmao

[@justin_5631]

I don't think these impulses are entirely irrational. The real world isn't a math problem. If you're an animal in the wild, a small meal could be worth a lot more than a one-third chance of getting a meal 3 times as big. When you're an organism trying to survive, gains which are certain have a value far greater than their quantity alone. And if you're barely paying your bills, betting 1000 dollars to gain 1500 could land you in deep trouble.